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(Jim C. Hiney)   What do media-sexified female poses look like when done by a man? Authors Jim C. Hines and John Scalzi present, "Operation Sexy Leg"   (jimchines.com) divider line 226
    More: Amusing, John Scalzi, Cute Overload, book cover, razor blades, legs, Rocky  
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23074 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 1:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 06:49:33 PM
Shut up Scalzi, you cock.
 
2012-12-11 07:01:21 PM
www.shortpacked.com
 
2012-12-11 07:12:15 PM

Theaetetus: [30.media.tumblr.com image 274x377]
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
[media.tumblr.com image 400x263]


Did you flunk geometry? Her torso is rotated about 45 degrees and her head a little more than that for a total slightly over 90.
 
2012-12-11 07:25:58 PM

penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link


How is the portrayal of women in comics not a power fantasy for them aswell? The women are often strong, beautiful, desired, rich, intelligent...

And the character in that comic isnt a girl or a female. Its a chick. "chick" is the correct term i believe...
 
2012-12-11 07:29:56 PM
i1282.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 07:35:42 PM

spamdog: Shut up Scalzi, you cock.


You have a problem with Scalzi why exactly?

Perhaps you stared at his seductive pose too intensely and too literally. He's more than just a personification of male sexuality, you know.
 
2012-12-11 07:36:21 PM
I'm not trying to be insensitive, but women have access to a wealth of literature that sexualizes men. When you look deep into these (admittedly a trifle shallow) expressions, I urge you to think about romance novels in which the men were written by a man instead of a woman.

Is it as pervasive? Does it shape society? No, of course not -- there really is some lingering objectification of women in places it doesn't really belong. But reaching deep into targeted media looking for reasons to take offense? Both genders are guilty of having some idealized vision of the other sex, and writing it into media. That's not the problem you want to solve, and you're merely mischaracterizing yourselves by pursuing it.
 
2012-12-11 07:45:12 PM

desertmouse: You have a problem with Scalzi why exactly?


I thought it was pretty obvious. He's a cock.
 
2012-12-11 07:50:55 PM

Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]


...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?
 
2012-12-11 07:55:12 PM

mikefinch: penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link

How is the portrayal of women in comics not a power fantasy for them aswell? The women are often strong, beautiful, desired, rich, intelligent...

And the character in that comic isnt a girl or a female. Its a chick. "chick" is the correct term i believe...



And remember, chicks grow up to become broads.
 
2012-12-11 08:04:02 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]

...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?


Liefeld never shows feet.
 
2012-12-11 08:10:16 PM
Didn't anyone notice that Iron Man and Black Widow are in pretty much the same pose in the Avengers poster? They're just rotated differently with respect to the viewer.
 
2012-12-11 08:16:53 PM

Mentat: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]

...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?

Liefeld never shows feet.


Damn.

You know what this thread needs? Namor.

4.bp.blogspot.com

scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com

images2.wikia.nocookie.net

www.comicbookmovie.com

media.comicvine.com
 
Ook
2012-12-11 09:24:14 PM

Dokushin: I'm not trying to be insensitive, but women have access to a wealth of literature that sexualizes men. When you look deep into these (admittedly a trifle shallow) expressions, I urge you to think about romance novels in which the men were written by a man instead of a woman.

Is it as pervasive? Does it shape society? No, of course not -- there really is some lingering objectification of women in places it doesn't really belong. But reaching deep into targeted media looking for reasons to take offense? Both genders are guilty of having some idealized vision of the other sex, and writing it into media. That's not the problem you want to solve, and you're merely mischaracterizing yourselves by pursuing it.


Too many people claim that that sexualization doesn't actually exist. Its pervasiveness, and the fact that it happens in romance novels as well as comics, isn't something that's going to change, but it needs to be acknowledged as being there or people who don't have good parents who point out the difference between fantasy and reality will think that this is the way the world is and should be. And that's part of why I've had to deal with jerkasses on the street making shiatty aggressive come-ons AND why aging moms made catcalls at the actors from twilight. Neither one is appropriate and the only way to end that is if people can acknowledge that it's not the way reality is or should be.

It's fine for comics to be fantasy. I like a lot of fantasies myself, including some comics (Strangers in Paradise, for instance, and Empowered if you want to get sexier) but everyone needs to be able to say that it's an awesome fantasy and not the way the world just is.
 
2012-12-11 09:26:47 PM
Oh Namor, you are the Vegeta of the Seas.
 
2012-12-11 09:40:57 PM

Dokushin: Is it as pervasive?


In terms of genre fiction, romance is either the 800 or 600 pound gorilla in the room (I forget where mysteries/thrillers rank). Considering how the comic book industry is ailing right now, I would not be surprised if romances are much more widely read than comic books.

Here's something interesting from a writing book I read once (this touches on how media marketed to men or women objectifies the opposite sex, and it's worth contemplating): "This means that he [the male protagonist] must personify the 'five Ss': single, sexy, sweet, smart, solvent (if not actually rich) . . ."
 
2012-12-11 10:04:13 PM

Chthonic Echoes: Dokushin: Is it as pervasive?

In terms of genre fiction, romance is either the 800 or 600 pound gorilla in the room (I forget where mysteries/thrillers rank). Considering how the comic book industry is ailing right now, I would not be surprised if romances are much more widely read than comic books.

Here's something interesting from a writing book I read once (this touches on how media marketed to men or women objectifies the opposite sex, and it's worth contemplating): "This means that he [the male protagonist] must personify the 'five Ss': single, sexy, sweet, smart, solvent (if not actually rich) . . ."


As noted above, that's "false equivalence," because its okay when women do it.

/I don't really care, I am capable of separating fantasy and reality. So are most men and women. You're not going to convince the ones that can't.
 
2012-12-11 10:32:01 PM
Bending over to clean the bathtub is one of the sexist poses ever.
 
2012-12-11 10:39:46 PM
All of these "switch men for women's poses" make the men look feminized apart from the poses. So it changes too many variables. If you're complaining about the costume, just switch the costume. You can't switch the pose AND the costume and complain it's all about the pose.

Or they draw them in a stupid cartoony fashion that makes them look idiotic, and then say "look what changing the pose does omg!"
 
2012-12-11 10:52:36 PM
www.whatsonxiamen.com 

Ooooo, yeah....now thrust forward your snatch just a little...make the guys gag for it

www.themalaysianinsider.com
 
2012-12-11 11:48:36 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]

...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?

Liefeld never shows feet.

Damn.

You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]


Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.

Whereas I'm sure you'll find a lot of women who think Gambit (X-Men) is sexy because of his personality and attitude, nothing to do with his "looks".

/Fabio is revolting
//Are there seriously women who non-ironically think he's hot?
 
2012-12-11 11:54:43 PM

if_i_really_have_to: Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.


Swing and miss.

First, the typical fallacy of saying that it's also a male fantasy, because y'know, oppression!
Second, the fact that most men don't think of Namor as a silly looking dude in a speedo, or worse, this:

www.blogcdn.com

Which is clearly designed to be a male fantasy because secretly we all dream of....okay, what the fark are you even saying? That's such a canned cliched social justice statement it just hurts to read...
 
2012-12-12 12:29:11 AM

Ook: Dokushin:

It's fine for comics to be fantasy. I like a lot of fantasies myself, including some comics (Strangers in Paradise, for instance, and Empowered if you want to get sexier) but everyone needs to be able to say that it's an awesome fantasy and not the way the world just is.


Are there lots of people who think that books full of men who can fly, bend steel with their bare hands, see through walls and shrug off bullets represent "the way the world just is?"

'Cuz speaking personally, I understood as a child that no one dresses up like a bat to fight crime... and that no one looked like Wonder Woman in real life.
 
Ook
2012-12-12 01:45:45 AM

lamecomedian: Ook: Dokushin:

It's fine for comics to be fantasy. I like a lot of fantasies myself, including some comics (Strangers in Paradise, for instance, and Empowered if you want to get sexier) but everyone needs to be able to say that it's an awesome fantasy and not the way the world just is.

Are there lots of people who think that books full of men who can fly, bend steel with their bare hands, see through walls and shrug off bullets represent "the way the world just is?"

'Cuz speaking personally, I understood as a child that no one dresses up like a bat to fight crime... and that no one looked like Wonder Woman in real life.


and because you recognized those were fantasies, did you also recognize the interpersonal dynamics as fantasies? The postures? The ethnic make-up of the hordes of bystanders? You were an amazingly sophisticated child then, because there are a fair number of websites where people will argue that the comics get those just fine.
 
2012-12-12 01:52:22 AM
Is it just me or is there a real streak of social conservatism amongst social justice crusaders?

What's the status of porn amongst these people? Is porn liberating or is it objectifying women?
 
2012-12-12 02:34:09 AM

Ook: and because you recognized those were fantasies, did you also recognize the interpersonal dynamics as fantasies? The postures? The ethnic make-up of the hordes of bystanders? You were an amazingly sophisticated child then, because there are a fair number of websites where people will argue that the comics get those just fine.


Clearly superhero comics, an phenomenon barely 80 years old, is the cause of those problems that have existed since thousands of years ago.
 
2012-12-12 05:04:02 AM

buttery_shame_cave: [www.shortpacked.com image 550x818]


Why would that art make a man feel uncomfortable?

No comic fan I know would care, hell most comic shops I know have racks of comics with men drawn like that.

If you have to misrepresent the other side of a debate then maybe you don't have much of a point to begin with.

Also, for those looking for male comic characters posing, check out Denny O'Neil's run on the Question. Vic Sage's favourite recreational activity is apparently doing yoga in his underpants.
 
2012-12-12 05:39:41 AM

weltallica: white people are victims of racism too! It's called racism


FTFY

Just because it`s against white people does not make it `reverse`, it`s still racism you f*ck. It is still racist to judge someone by the colour of their skin even if that skin is not black.

You don`t seem to realise this.

On the flip side, that does not make racism OK.
 
2012-12-12 07:13:21 AM
Another site that reveals the crimes against anatomy in comics is this one:

Escher Girls

The redraws are pretty great.
 
2012-12-12 10:52:44 AM

penthesilea: browntimmy: I really don't buy that most women would find that new picture hotter.

Spend some time on tumblr. So many drawings/photos of sensitive, bendy, & beautiful guys.


I'm sure some women are into that. But just a few hours ago on a talk show I was watching they showed an underwear ad with David Beckam that made all the women in the audience swooon, and he had a very serious, tough "bad-boy" look on his face. That "improved" batman comic above looks more like the kind of guy women would want to take shopping with them.
 
2012-12-12 10:59:47 AM

spamdog: Is it just me or is there a real streak of social conservatism amongst social justice crusaders?


No. They are no better than the fundies.
 
2012-12-12 11:30:59 AM

tshauk: Why?

Just, WHY?


To show how stupid it is to pose women like that.
 
2012-12-12 12:11:23 PM

dukef: Here's a whole series of them courtesy of a photographer with a sense of humor.


"Hey web developer guy. Everyone hates slideshows, so let's avoid that, ok?"

"Sure thing! No slide shows. But let's force everyone to scroll sideways!"

"Oooh! Innovative and fresh!"
 
2012-12-12 01:20:42 PM
It's always amazing to me how outraged people who disagree with the idea that there's a large sexist overtone to something are.

Chill. Your side is winning or in power or getting to see what you want to see or whatever. Someone saying "but there's a problem with this" isn't going to change anything. Calm down.

/And no, "but here's a comic that isn't problematic" isn't a counterargument.
 
2012-12-12 02:00:29 PM
rocky_howard: Seriously, if you're going to be this disingenuous, just stop arguing...

What are you doing posting in this thread, then?
 
2012-12-12 02:13:57 PM

Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.


And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.
 
2012-12-12 02:16:59 PM

ciberido: And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist


The ones she doesn't find sexiest?
 
2012-12-12 02:18:28 PM

natazha: Theaetetus: [30.media.tumblr.com image 274x377]
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
[media.tumblr.com image 400x263]

Did you flunk geometry? Her torso is rotated about 45 degrees and her head a little more than that for a total slightly over 90.


Um, no. Butt-to-face is almost 180 degrees. Did you fail at counting?
 
2012-12-12 02:22:32 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]


Cracked has something to say about Namor and sexism in comics.
 
2012-12-12 02:23:09 PM

ProfessorOhki: ciberido: And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist

The ones she doesn't find sexiest?


Sorry, I meant "sexiest" as in "most sexy," not "sexist."
 
2012-12-12 02:26:48 PM

if_i_really_have_to: Keizer_Ghidorah: You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]

Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.

Whereas I'm sure you'll find a lot of women who think Gambit (X-Men) is sexy because of his personality and attitude, nothing to do with his "looks".


Yes, sorry to repeat myself, but there is a response to the claim that Namor is drawn as "beefcake" for female readers.
 
2012-12-12 02:28:55 PM

ciberido: natazha: Theaetetus: [30.media.tumblr.com image 274x377]
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
[media.tumblr.com image 400x263]

Did you flunk geometry? Her torso is rotated about 45 degrees and her head a little more than that for a total slightly over 90.

Um, no. Butt-to-face is almost 180 degrees. Did you fail at counting?


Now now, you're both wrong. It's 130ish. If that contortionist was standing it'd be pretty close. In fact, you can tell he's got more torso twist than her because his left arm has crossed his ass and hers hasn't. It's the spine arching combined with the rotation that makes it horrific. Not to mention that it's a ridiculous looking pose to start with.
 
2012-12-12 02:43:03 PM

ciberido: And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.


As should the person who drew that comic, don't you think?

----

Now, if you listen closely you can hear the argument of ciberido going...*pop*
 
2012-12-12 02:44:21 PM

ciberido: Yes, sorry to repeat myself, but there is a response to the claim that Namor is drawn as "beefcake" for female readers.


An article in Cracked said it, by damnation if it must be true!

Newsflash: Nobody has said Namor is drawn like that for the ladies. Making strawmen is bad, using strawmen made by other people is even worse.

Also, nobody wants to be Namor.
 
2012-12-12 02:50:01 PM

rocky_howard: ciberido: And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

As should the person who drew that comic, don't you think?

----

Now, if you listen closely you can hear the argument of ciberido going...*pop*


The only thing I hear is evidence you've never been on deviant art, or tumblr, or any other site with a population of (sometimes) heterosexual female artists.
 
2012-12-12 02:58:02 PM

sp86: The only thing I hear is evidence you've never been on deviant art, or tumblr, or any other site with a population of (sometimes) heterosexual female artists.


Cute, but nope. I'm an 8 years old Deviant and a 4 years old Tumblerer so FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL.

Keep assuming :)
 
2012-12-12 03:26:35 PM

ciberido: if_i_really_have_to: Keizer_Ghidorah: You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]

Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.

Whereas I'm sure you'll find a lot of women who think Gambit (X-Men) is sexy because of his personality and attitude, nothing to do with his "looks".

Yes, sorry to repeat myself, but there is a response to the claim that Namor is drawn as "beefcake" for female readers.


Yeesh, I post him as eye candy and everyone goes bonkers.
 
2012-12-12 03:35:40 PM

rocky_howard: sp86: The only thing I hear is evidence you've never been on deviant art, or tumblr, or any other site with a population of (sometimes) heterosexual female artists.

Cute, but nope. I'm an 8 years old Deviant and a 4 years old Tumblerer so FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL.

Keep assuming :)


Then you're either a.) Willfully ignorant or b.) dumb as fark.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen today I'm thinking more the latter, but it might actually be a combination.
 
2012-12-12 03:57:31 PM

sp86: Then you're either a.) Willfully ignorant or b.) dumb as fark.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen today I'm thinking more the latter, but it might actually be a combination.


Awww, as if what you think is important to anyone. Keep it up with the insults though, really suits you :O)
 
2012-12-12 04:11:13 PM

rocky_howard: sp86: Then you're either a.) Willfully ignorant or b.) dumb as fark.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen today I'm thinking more the latter, but it might actually be a combination.

Awww, as if what you think is important to anyone. Keep it up with the insults though, really suits you :O)


Nobody cares what lurkers think, why the hell would I think that? There you go supposing for other people again, with no clue of what's really going on. When you build your rhetoric on that sort of dishonesty it's no wonder you object to people calling a dumb fark a dumb fark.
 
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