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(Jim C. Hiney)   What do media-sexified female poses look like when done by a man? Authors Jim C. Hines and John Scalzi present, "Operation Sexy Leg"   (jimchines.com) divider line 226
    More: Amusing, John Scalzi, Cute Overload, book cover, razor blades, legs, Rocky  
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23074 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 1:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



226 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-11 12:24:35 PM
Sick and Wrong
 
2012-12-11 12:30:33 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Sick and Wrong


I thought it was kinda hot.
 
2012-12-11 12:31:27 PM
I wish they had done more than just one pose.
 
2012-12-11 12:38:18 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: I wish they had done more than just one pose.


That was my immediate reaction.
 
2012-12-11 12:42:45 PM
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net
Did someone say Dean?
 
2012-12-11 12:43:59 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-11 12:44:49 PM

sweetmelissa31: [25.media.tumblr.com image 500x216]


Uhh.. I don't get it.
 
2012-12-11 12:56:33 PM

Cythraul: Uhh.. I don't get it.


It is from Hark a Vagrant: a strong female character

Link
 
2012-12-11 01:43:07 PM
i.imgur.com
What if the male Avengers posed like the female one?
 
2012-12-11 01:43:44 PM
I saw something similar on Facebook the other week, where they replaced the poses of Black Widow and other female superheroes with Hawkeye instead.
 
2012-12-11 01:43:54 PM
http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

Try not to laugh soda out your nose.
 
2012-12-11 01:44:36 PM

sweetmelissa31: Cythraul: Uhh.. I don't get it.

It is from Hark a Vagrant: a strong female character

Link


Now I know where it comes from I don't get it either.
 
2012-12-11 01:44:42 PM

Theaetetus: [i.imgur.com image 687x1044]
What if the male Avengers posed like the female one?


I'll be in my bunk...
 
2012-12-11 01:44:44 PM
The one thing I dont understand about the whole 'If guys posed like the girls on Movie Posters/Videos/etc' craze that seems to have people all giggly is that the guys are posed, traditionally, in ways that women (who are into guys) would find attractive.

I mean, think about it. Women, traditionally, find guys' torsos attractive, like washboard abs, low waist jeans, etc. etc.

If you think about it, the guys are being posed like the women, except that men are obviously attracted to different things.
 
2012-12-11 01:44:55 PM
he's a maniac on the floor.....and he's dancing like he never danced before
 
2012-12-11 01:44:55 PM
cdn.mommyish.com
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.
 
2012-12-11 01:45:16 PM

Theaetetus: [i.imgur.com image 687x1044]
What if the male Avengers posed like the female one?


That's good.
 
2012-12-11 01:45:37 PM
Jim has done several of these photoshoots. It really brings home how ridiculous book covers are.
 
2012-12-11 01:46:02 PM

Theaetetus: [cdn.mommyish.com image 332x1024]
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.


Keep 'em comin'!
 
2012-12-11 01:46:34 PM
Why?

Just, WHY?
 
2012-12-11 01:46:38 PM
This is lie planking, only stupider right? It also has a rape tab on the top...not many sites can say that!
 
2012-12-11 01:47:04 PM
Topic Related?

Love the YT vids of Fox News Ladies pulling their skirts up to show more outer thigh.
 
2012-12-11 01:47:06 PM
Meh...it's been done

i523.photobucket.com

Sexy
 
2012-12-11 01:47:08 PM
Not as good as The Hawkeye Initiative.
 
2012-12-11 01:48:20 PM
It's almost as though men and women find different things attractive about each other. What hypocrisy!
 
2012-12-11 01:48:34 PM
Ah, here's the one I saw.  Upworthy Link
 
2012-12-11 01:49:38 PM

Mega Steve: Meh...it's been done

[i523.photobucket.com image 500x375]

Sexy


Thanks a crapload. You just ruined my lunch.
 
2012-12-11 01:49:41 PM
I'll second the kind of hot. Especially the hairy dude. Have him fluffed and brought to my chambers.
 
2012-12-11 01:50:43 PM

Nurglitch: I'll second the kind of hot. Especially the hairy dude. Have him fluffed and brought to my chambers.


I'm first. Or we can spit-roast him.
 
2012-12-11 01:51:12 PM

Theaetetus: [cdn.mommyish.com image 332x1024]
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.


The shape of a man's pelvis is such that they are physically incapable of tilting it in that fashion. Which may explain why men find it so alluring in women.
 
2012-12-11 01:51:13 PM

Cythraul: Theaetetus: [cdn.mommyish.com image 332x1024]
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.

Keep 'em comin'!


www.wired.com
 
2012-12-11 01:52:18 PM
The people who do these pieces are missing two important points:


1.- Men and Women are attracted to different things, so having Men posing like Women is idiotic. It'd be like what if we used Chinese characters to write in English?

2.- If you want to do a proper comparison, at least don't exaggerate your depiction to make the original look worse. Look at the Wonder Woman and Avengers pictures in this thread. In the originals, the woman isn't doing anything even close to being as ridiculous as what the men are doing in the reverse pictures.
 
2012-12-11 01:52:50 PM

Ambivalence: Theaetetus: [cdn.mommyish.com image 332x1024]
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.

The shape of a man's pelvis is such that they are physically incapable of tilting it in that fashion. Which may explain why men find it so alluring in women.


25.media.tumblr.com
The shape of a woman's pelvis is such that they're also physically incapable of tilting it in that fashion... Have you never actually seen a woman?
 
2012-12-11 01:52:53 PM
Should I have a boner? I'm scared :(
 
2012-12-11 01:52:57 PM

averagejoe42: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

Try not to laugh soda out your nose.


Came for hawkeye initiative
 
2012-12-11 01:55:03 PM
What do media-sexified female poses look like when done by a man?


Goatse?
 
2012-12-11 01:55:26 PM
30.media.tumblr.com
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-11 01:55:52 PM
files.petapixel.com
 
2012-12-11 01:56:15 PM

Blues Lounger: This is lie planking, only stupider right? It also has a rape tab on the top...not many sites can say that!


Jim has worked rape crisis hotlines in the past.
 
2012-12-11 01:56:43 PM

(Jim C. Hiney) What do media-sexified female poses look like when done by a man? Authors Jim C. Hines and John Scalzi present


tee hee hee
 
2012-12-11 01:57:48 PM

JOHN MCENROE MY CHILDHOOD NEMESIS: ...the guys are posed, traditionally, in ways that nerdy guys imagine that women (who are into guys) would find attractive.


My wild guess - maybe I fixed that for you.

Hell if I know what a typical woman would consider to be a hawt superhero pose. I kinda doubt most of the artists know either. These poses probably aren't much more than a stylized tropey thing, now.
 
2012-12-11 01:57:57 PM

averagejoe42: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

Try not to laugh soda out your nose.


Blocked at work.

/kicks dirt
 
2012-12-11 01:59:27 PM
I really don't need that to be my image of what John Scalzi looks like.
 
2012-12-11 01:59:32 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 01:59:58 PM

rocky_howard: The people who do these pieces are missing two important points:


1.- Men and Women are attracted to different things, so having Men posing like Women is idiotic. It'd be like what if we used Chinese characters to write in English?

2.- If you want to do a proper comparison, at least don't exaggerate your depiction to make the original look worse. Look at the Wonder Woman and Avengers pictures in this thread. In the originals, the woman isn't doing anything even close to being as ridiculous as what the men are doing in the reverse pictures.


Bingo. In fact, going one step further, as a woman who likes sexy female bodies AND sexy male bodies, I'm not looking at the same parts on the different bodies. A man posing like a woman is as ridiculous as a woman posing like a man. Those poses don't emphasize the parts that make the various people look sexy. All these "comparisons" are doing is trying to say the artist or photographer is being sexist by overemphasizing the woman's breasts or making her look "submissive" or whatever, and wouldn't it be dumb if men did the same thing?

Which may or may not be true; but don't pretend that your reversal has anything to do with mere role reversal.
 
2012-12-11 02:01:32 PM
Hmm...

Surprisingly nice legs.
 
2012-12-11 02:02:17 PM

averagejoe42: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

Try not to laugh soda out your nose.


Yep.
 
2012-12-11 02:03:15 PM
i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-11 02:07:46 PM

rocky_howard: 1.- Men and Women are attracted to different things, so having Men posing like Women is idiotic. It'd be like what if we used Chinese characters to write in English?


That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.
 
2012-12-11 02:07:46 PM
This is awful why can't I look away
 
2012-12-11 02:10:03 PM
I just sorta wish comics in general were more anatomically correct. I mean, there are plenty of poses that make no sense for males or females that plague comics.
 
2012-12-11 02:12:22 PM

Theaetetus: [cdn.mommyish.com image 332x1024]
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.


Glad they included Spider Jerusalem.
 
2012-12-11 02:13:43 PM

Raw_fishFood: I just sorta wish comics in general were more anatomically correct. I mean, there are plenty of poses that make no sense for males or females that plague comics.


25.media.tumblr.com

You mean women don't bend this way? Damn you, Liefeld!
 
2012-12-11 02:14:37 PM
My first girlfriend's going to look like that...
 
2012-12-11 02:14:51 PM
Oh I get it. You want women to be posed in more natural, masculine manners correct?

...I'm ok with this.

ts3.mm.bing.net
 
2012-12-11 02:15:21 PM

Mega Steve: Raw_fishFood: I just sorta wish comics in general were more anatomically correct. I mean, there are plenty of poses that make no sense for males or females that plague comics.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 454x695]

You mean women don't bend this way? Damn you, Liefeld!


Jeeze. Apparently they lack spinal chords.
 
2012-12-11 02:16:37 PM

Dafatone: That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.


www.dubnerdesign.com

Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.

Look at some impossible poses Spider-Man takes:

media.avclub.com


Men posing and bodies are a non-issue because men don't complain about these things.
 
2012-12-11 02:16:45 PM
img5.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-11 02:17:06 PM
F5F5F5
 
2012-12-11 02:17:10 PM
Why couldn't they have tried the original version of the Catwoman #0 cover from the New 52? Any idiot can do the hoochie squat while holding a crossbow.
 
2012-12-11 02:18:11 PM
www.theresidentarchitect.com
 
2012-12-11 02:18:49 PM

Alphax: Mega Steve: Raw_fishFood: I just sorta wish comics in general were more anatomically correct. I mean, there are plenty of poses that make no sense for males or females that plague comics.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 454x695]

You mean women don't bend this way? Damn you, Liefeld!

Jeeze. Apparently they lack spinal chords.


They had them replaced with boiled spaghetti.
 
2012-12-11 02:21:17 PM
give me biker fox any day.
 
2012-12-11 02:22:03 PM
It's almost as if comic books don't accurately reflect reality.
 
2012-12-11 02:22:20 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.

[www.dubnerdesign.com image 454x610]

Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.

Look at some impossible poses Spider-Man takes:

[media.avclub.com image 627x352]


Men posing and bodies are a non-issue because men don't complain about these things.


Poses aside, the body build of many male comic heroes is just absurd. Not even with steroids could you look like that image of Captain America.
 
2012-12-11 02:23:37 PM

EatHam: give me biker fox any day.


www.theluxuryspot.com
 
2012-12-11 02:23:59 PM

Dafatone: rocky_howard: 1.- Men and Women are attracted to different things, so having Men posing like Women is idiotic. It'd be like what if we used Chinese characters to write in English?

That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.


You think the men in comic books look real? shiat, I need to do more sit-ups.
 
2012-12-11 02:26:04 PM

Cythraul: rocky_howard: Dafatone: That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.

[www.dubnerdesign.com image 454x610]

Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.

Look at some impossible poses Spider-Man takes:

[media.avclub.com image 627x352]


Men posing and bodies are a non-issue because men don't complain about these things.

Poses aside, the body build of many male comic heroes is just absurd. Not even with steroids could you look like that image of Captain America.


4.bp.blogspot.com 

/hot
//unlike these anatomical nightmares
 
2012-12-11 02:26:40 PM

Cythraul: Poses aside, the body build of many male comic heroes is just absurd. Not even with steroids could you look like that image of Captain America.


I think it's funny when the Flash and Hal Jordan look like Arnold Schwarzenegger at his prime. Why would they be muscular at all?
 
2012-12-11 02:28:45 PM
In my opinion, most of the poses the women take in those "what if men posed like women" are some of the worst female poses they could find, and most of the women look stupid too. The women in the photo in TFA? Yeah, she looks stupid.
 
2012-12-11 02:28:53 PM
Without clicking the link, I'm guessing the media-sexified female poses done by a guy look kind of gay.
 
2012-12-11 02:29:32 PM

pi8you: Cythraul: rocky_howard: Dafatone: That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.

[www.dubnerdesign.com image 454x610]

Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.

Look at some impossible poses Spider-Man takes:

[media.avclub.com image 627x352]


Men posing and bodies are a non-issue because men don't complain about these things.

Poses aside, the body build of many male comic heroes is just absurd. Not even with steroids could you look like that image of Captain America.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 310x237] 

/hot
//unlike these anatomical nightmares


Seriously? The image of Captain America has a point of view where you're looking at him almost directly facing his side. Arnold has somewhat turned his body towards the camera.
 
2012-12-11 02:29:43 PM

rocky_howard: Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.


Liefeld is practically cheating here. You're right that men are depicted as being impossibly built. But more often than not, they're not impossibly contorted. Meanwhile, women manage to have both breasts and ass pointed at the camera.

I mean, the Avengers poster makes it pretty obvious. Men are doing things, the woman is pointed ass-first.

Also, there's no need to be a dick.
 
2012-12-11 02:31:07 PM

Cythraul: Poses aside, the body build of many male comic heroes is just absurd. Not even with steroids could you look like that image of Captain America.


You could look like that if you took super-soldier serum. Like Captain America did.
 
2012-12-11 02:32:02 PM

amindtat: EatHam: give me biker fox any day.

[www.theluxuryspot.com image 570x531]


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-11 02:37:01 PM

Dafatone: Liefeld is practically cheating here. You're right that men are depicted as being impossibly built. But more often than not, they're not impossibly contorted. Meanwhile, women manage to have both breasts and ass pointed at the camera.

I mean, the Avengers poster makes it pretty obvious. Men are doing things, the woman is pointed ass-first.

Also, there's no need to be a dick.


Sorry for being a dick. I just get heated. *brofist*

True, but that's because women tend to be the agile type of character, while many of the men are stronghouses. But if you look at agile male characters they're just as contorted as the women. And c'mon, there's almost a religion around Nightwing's butt, so you can't say he doesn't show it.



And regarding the Avengers pic. Completely false. Sorry, but no.

1.- Scarlett Johansson is standing there. There's no way you can put her where we can't see her ample assets.

2.- It's just selective bias. Look at Hawkeye, I could say he's prominently featuring his crotch. Also, Scarlett isn't jutting her ass backwards like the guys are doing in the reverse picture and I wont' even touch the Hulk.

If someone can't make their point without resorting to distort the original picture, then it's a poor point. OF COURSE it's gonna be ridiculous if you draw it ridiculous. Such ridiculousness doesn't trace back to the original.
 
2012-12-11 02:37:03 PM

Dafatone: rocky_howard: Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.

Liefeld is practically cheating here. You're right that men are depicted as being impossibly built. But more often than not, they're not impossibly contorted. Meanwhile, women manage to have both breasts and ass pointed at the camera.

I mean, the Avengers poster makes it pretty obvious. Men are doing things, the woman is pointed ass-first.

Also, there's no need to be a dick.


Yep.
 
2012-12-11 02:37:36 PM
Nightwing Butt, missing from the previous post:

i34.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 02:39:24 PM
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

"B-b-but Spiderman~!!!! B-b-but muscles~!"

So they say, but all I hear is...

"B-b-but white people are victims of racism too! It's called reverse-racism, and it's HORRIBLE! And EVERYWHERE!"
 
2012-12-11 02:39:26 PM
Moto Corsa, a Ducati dealership, did it better, with their Manigale photos.
 
2012-12-11 02:40:55 PM
So if we've reached the point where we're complaining about how women are represented in comic books, a medium traditionally marketed to 14 year old boys, I'm going to have to assume that all gender-injustice issues have been resolved.
 
2012-12-11 02:42:51 PM

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x437]

[i.imgur.com image 640x360]

"B-b-but Spiderman~!!!! B-b-but muscles~!"

So they say, but all I hear is...

"B-b-but white people are victims of racism too! It's called reverse-racism, and it's HORRIBLE! And EVERYWHERE!"


Cute, but I'm black.

Regarding the Psylocke picture. Sure, it's bad. What was your point? That the artist is bad or made a mistake there? All in all, it's a terrible pose and you won't find anyone who says it's good, so nice strawman.
 
2012-12-11 02:43:36 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: Liefeld is practically cheating here. You're right that men are depicted as being impossibly built. But more often than not, they're not impossibly contorted. Meanwhile, women manage to have both breasts and ass pointed at the camera.

I mean, the Avengers poster makes it pretty obvious. Men are doing things, the woman is pointed ass-first.

Also, there's no need to be a dick.

Sorry for being a dick. I just get heated. *brofist*

True, but that's because women tend to be the agile type of character, while many of the men are stronghouses. But if you look at agile male characters they're just as contorted as the women. And c'mon, there's almost a religion around Nightwing's butt, so you can't say he doesn't show it.



And regarding the Avengers pic. Completely false. Sorry, but no.

1.- Scarlett Johansson is standing there. There's no way you can put her where we can't see her ample assets.

2.- It's just selective bias. Look at Hawkeye, I could say he's prominently featuring his crotch. Also, Scarlett isn't jutting her ass backwards like the guys are doing in the reverse picture and I wont' even touch the Hulk.

If someone can't make their point without resorting to distort the original picture, then it's a poor point. OF COURSE it's gonna be ridiculous if you draw it ridiculous. Such ridiculousness doesn't trace back to the original.


Scarlett Johanson is the only personhim that pic whose ass you can see, and you can also conveniently see a very prominent sideboob profile. Hawkeye's crotch is obscured by dust particles, and there's no bulge or silhouette. Cap also lacks a bulge, which is the closest equivalent to side boob profile. Sorry, but the female in this image clearly is going for Sexy while the guys are going for Badass.
 
2012-12-11 02:43:37 PM
More Nightwing goodness:

media.comicvine.com
 
2012-12-11 02:44:45 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Scarlett Johanson is the only personhim that pic whose ass you can see, and you can also conveniently see a very prominent sideboob profile. Hawkeye's crotch is obscured by dust particles, and there's no bulge or silhouette. Cap also lacks a bulge, which is the closest equivalent to side boob profile. Sorry, but the female in this image clearly is going for Sexy while the guys are going for Badass.


Seriously, if you're going to be this disingenuous, just stop arguing...
 
2012-12-11 02:45:06 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.

[www.dubnerdesign.com image 454x610]

Yeah, so real and totally possible.

...


That Captain America illustration reminds me of the Thanksgiving Turkey: huge breast created by steroidal injections and other chemical enhancements.
 
2012-12-11 02:45:33 PM

Cythraul: Seriously? The image of Captain America has a point of view where you're looking at him almost directly facing his side. Arnold has somewhat turned his body towards the camera.


Oh, I know it's not nearly 1:1, but Arnold is still pretty ridiculous there.
 
2012-12-11 02:45:45 PM

rocky_howard: More Nightwing goodness:

[media.comicvine.com image 534x641]


Cool so there's ONE male superhero that's drawn as ridiculously as 99% of the female characters are. Your argument is akin to, "but I have a black friend!"
 
2012-12-11 02:46:05 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: Liefeld is practically cheating here. You're right that men are depicted as being impossibly built. But more often than not, they're not impossibly contorted. Meanwhile, women manage to have both breasts and ass pointed at the camera.

I mean, the Avengers poster makes it pretty obvious. Men are doing things, the woman is pointed ass-first.

Also, there's no need to be a dick.

Sorry for being a dick. I just get heated. *brofist*

True, but that's because women tend to be the agile type of character, while many of the men are stronghouses. But if you look at agile male characters they're just as contorted as the women. And c'mon, there's almost a religion around Nightwing's butt, so you can't say he doesn't show it.



And regarding the Avengers pic. Completely false. Sorry, but no.

1.- Scarlett Johansson is standing there. There's no way you can put her where we can't see her ample assets.

2.- It's just selective bias. Look at Hawkeye, I could say he's prominently featuring his crotch. Also, Scarlett isn't jutting her ass backwards like the guys are doing in the reverse picture and I wont' even touch the Hulk.

If someone can't make their point without resorting to distort the original picture, then it's a poor point. OF COURSE it's gonna be ridiculous if you draw it ridiculous. Such ridiculousness doesn't trace back to the original.


I do think that comics are a somewhat misunderstood genre here, in that there's a lot of parody of this phenomenon that isn't recognized. You get characters drawn as an intended mocking of Liefeld, for example, and a lot of the criticism comes from people who aren't deeply versed enough to note these things. I'll admit I'm closer to that category.

But as to the Avengers poster, we'll have to agree to disagree. Sure, you're going to show Scarlett Johansson's ass. But this makes her the only character with her back to the camera. Some men are posed suggestively, but Thor for example isn't. He's still a ripped Norse dude, so he's still looking pretty great, but it's not like he's thrust crotch first. If there's one woman and she's turned around to show off her behind, that's kind of a problem, is all.

/Is crotch emphasis really the way guys get sexualized anyway?
 
2012-12-11 02:47:59 PM

Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: More Nightwing goodness:

[media.comicvine.com image 534x641]

Cool so there's ONE male superhero that's drawn as ridiculously as 99% of the female characters are. Your argument is akin to, "but I have a black friend!"


Nope. Every time you use that word, your argument loses all its weight.
 
2012-12-11 02:48:33 PM
www.howaboutwe.com 

Disapproves of unrealistic imagery used to sell things to a particular demographic.
(hot like Fabio)
 
2012-12-11 02:49:19 PM

rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Scarlett Johanson is the only personhim that pic whose ass you can see, and you can also conveniently see a very prominent sideboob profile. Hawkeye's crotch is obscured by dust particles, and there's no bulge or silhouette. Cap also lacks a bulge, which is the closest equivalent to side boob profile. Sorry, but the female in this image clearly is going for Sexy while the guys are going for Badass.

Seriously, if you're going to be this disingenuous, just stop arguing...


If the brown particulate floating around in the image obscuring Hawkeye's crotch isn't dust, then what is it? And again, there's no bulge and no profile. It's just a flat area where his legs meet up with his torso. Same goes for Cappy.
 
2012-12-11 02:50:14 PM

Dafatone: I do think that comics are a somewhat misunderstood genre here, in that there's a lot of parody of this phenomenon that isn't recognized. You get characters drawn as an intended mocking of Liefeld, for example, and a lot of the criticism comes from people who aren't deeply versed enough to note these things. I'll admit I'm closer to that category.

But as to the Avengers poster, we'll have to agree to disagree. Sure, you're going to show Scarlett Johansson's ass. But this makes her the only character with her back to the camera. Some men are posed suggestively, but Thor for example isn't. He's still a ripped Norse dude, so he's still looking pretty great, but it's not like he's thrust crotch first. If there's one woman and she's turned around to show off her behind, that's kind of a problem, is all.

/Is crotch emphasis really the way guys get sexualized anyway?


I'm not opposed to your analysis of the real poster. What I'm opposed to is the reverse poster. That's blatantly lying. Not your fault, of course..
 
2012-12-11 02:50:19 PM

LectertheChef: Moto Corsa, a Ducati dealership, did it better, with their Manigale photos.


Fantastic! Guys cheated by wearing 2.5" or so heels while the singular female model was wearing 5"+ heels.
 
2012-12-11 02:50:58 PM
Old insights are so exciting!

Art Historian Linda Nochlin famously made this kind of comparison in an essay from 1971. She compared a nudie photo from the early late 19th century of a chick serving her tits up on a tray with apples (The title is "Buy my Apples") with a photograph of a hippie friend of hers that she titled "Buy my Bananas." You can imagine what the latter looks like. Click here to see the mildly NSFW image.
 
2012-12-11 02:51:18 PM

rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: More Nightwing goodness:

[media.comicvine.com image 534x641]

Cool so there's ONE male superhero that's drawn as ridiculously as 99% of the female characters are. Your argument is akin to, "but I have a black friend!"

Nope. Every time you use that word, your argument loses all its weight.


You have a problem with my use of the word ridiculous? So you don't think that Nightwing image is absolutely ridiculous?
 
2012-12-11 02:52:21 PM

farkingnotworking: Old insights are so exciting!

Art Historian Linda Nochlin famously made this kind of comparison in an essay from 1971. She compared a nudie photo from the early late 19th century of a chick serving her tits up on a tray with apples (The title is "Buy my Apples") with a photograph of a hippie friend of hers that she titled "Buy my Bananas." You can imagine what the latter looks like. Click here to see the mildly NSFW image.


/ftfm.
 
2012-12-11 02:52:22 PM

Mike Chewbacca: If the brown particulate floating around in the image obscuring Hawkeye's crotch isn't dust, then what is it? And again, there's no bulge and no profile. It's just a flat area where his legs meet up with his torso. Same goes for Cappy.


It's not obscuring anything, that's just a lame excuse.

And Scarlett's is just the area where her legs meet.

Also notice that even in the reverse pic you can see her ample breasts, so is that also sexist?
 
2012-12-11 02:53:11 PM

farkingnotworking: Old insights are so exciting!

Art Historian Linda Nochlin famously made this kind of comparison in an essay from 1971. She compared a nudie photo from the early late 19th century of a chick serving her tits up on a tray with apples (The title is "Buy my Apples") with a photograph of a hippie friend of hers that she titled "Buy my Bananas." You can imagine what the latter looks like. Click here to see the mildly NSFW image.


Full frontal nudity is MILDLY not safe for work?

/cool find, though
 
2012-12-11 02:54:12 PM
Comic book raging and no .gif of Joker eating popcorn?
 
2012-12-11 02:54:17 PM

Mike Chewbacca: You have a problem with my use of the word ridiculous? So you don't think that Nightwing image is absolutely ridiculous?


Yes, I have. Since "ridiculous" has become the adjective du jour on the Internet when you don't really have a valid point and just want to sound like you do.

Why would I think Nightwing's image is ridiculous? Oh because you can see his crotch? Why don't you grow up?
 
2012-12-11 02:54:48 PM

Cythraul: Seriously? The image of Captain America has a point of view where you're looking at him almost directly facing his side. Arnold has somewhat turned his body towards the camera.


This. You see some of Cap's back or at least the back side of the arm, and Ahnold is somewhat contorted puffing the chest, Cap is just standing there but with his head turned.

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com 

Yes, that's Lefield's face over the penny
 
2012-12-11 02:55:05 PM

Mike Chewbacca: farkingnotworking: Old insights are so exciting!

Art Historian Linda Nochlin famously made this kind of comparison in an essay from 1971. She compared a nudie photo from the early late 19th century of a chick serving her tits up on a tray with apples (The title is "Buy my Apples") with a photograph of a hippie friend of hers that she titled "Buy my Bananas." You can imagine what the latter looks like. Click here to see the mildly NSFW image.

Full frontal nudity is MILDLY not safe for work?

/cool find, though


Ooh... Okay, sorry. It's just that they are such silly images, I assumed it would be hard for anyone to consider them threatening. I look at naked pictures all day as part of my job, so I guess I'm a little desensitized...
 
2012-12-11 02:55:33 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: That's entirely not the point. Men get to be posed in pretty much any way, from looking hot to an action shot to whatever. Women get to be hot. Furthermore, women are posed in completely impossible ways to look hot, whereas men at least get to look real.

[www.dubnerdesign.com image 454x610]

Yeah, so real and totally possible.

Wait, why don't you just shut up? Superhero comics feature impossible bodies and poses for BOTH sexes. This just became an issue because "social justice" and "gender equality" became a thing and now everybody wants to denounce anything they "think" it's wrong just to have a soapbox.

Look at some impossible poses Spider-Man takes:

[media.avclub.com image 627x352]


Men posing and bodies are a non-issue because men don't complain about these things.


The problem is more than a bit less 'ZOMG COMICS MAKE PEOPLE LOOK SEXY THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!11!!eleventy!' and more 'Um, why is it that the male body language is dominant and the female body language is so submissive I could have posted this on a BDSM site?'.

/Because really, I've seen women in less submissive positions on those sites while they were in the sub position for porn shoots.
 
2012-12-11 02:58:28 PM

PsiChick: The problem is more than a bit less 'ZOMG COMICS MAKE PEOPLE LOOK SEXY THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!11!!eleventy!' and more 'Um, why is it that the male body language is dominant and the female body language is so submissive I could have posted this on a BDSM site?'.

/Because really, I've seen women in less submissive positions on those sites while they were in the sub position for porn shoots.


Now this is an interesting position. Yeah, I can see why some of those would be seen as submissive. But are we going to have an standardized discussion? Because this is all over the place, as it is.

For example, look for Mega Steve post featuring two amazon-like women holding swords. Do you consider that to be submissive?
 
2012-12-11 02:58:53 PM
Here's a whole series of them courtesy of a photographer with a sense of humor.
 
2012-12-11 03:02:14 PM

dericwater: LectertheChef: Moto Corsa, a Ducati dealership, did it better, with their Manigale photos.

Fantastic! Guys cheated by wearing 2.5" or so heels while the singular female model was wearing 5"+ heels.



You try finding a pair of stilettos in a men's 12.5 EEE!
 
2012-12-11 03:02:16 PM

rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: If the brown particulate floating around in the image obscuring Hawkeye's crotch isn't dust, then what is it? And again, there's no bulge and no profile. It's just a flat area where his legs meet up with his torso. Same goes for Cappy.

It's not obscuring anything, that's just a lame excuse.


It's not an excuse. There's absolutely nothing sexualized about Hawkeye's crotch.

And Scarlett's is just the area where her legs meet

You were the one who brought up crotches..

Also notice that even in the reverse pic you can see her ample breasts, so is that also sexist?

She has ample breasts. In the second image, she's facing the "camera" and so her breasts are visible, but nothing is done to draw attention to them. In the original, the character is turned in such a way that her breasts are silhouetted perfectly by a much lighter background. They are very sexualized, and the contrast in the dark uniform and the very light background immediately calls attention to her tits. It's almost like black and white are the first thing human eyes see (which is why that Tool song goes, "Black and white are all I see, red and yellow that came to be, reaching out to me, lets me see"). In the second image, Scarlett's arm is behind her boob, so there is no silhouette.
 
2012-12-11 03:03:40 PM

dukef: Here's a whole series of them courtesy of a photographer with a sense of humor.


That was a great link. This is an actually apt way of presenting the...I don't want to say issue, because is this even an issue?...so I'll say the phenomenon, the occurence, the instance. The men are selling it straight, not excessive overacting to "prove a point", just the sexes reversed. Pretty good.

Now, the message my mind gets from looking at those images is simple:

These dudes look gay. (Gay as in homosexual, not as an insult)
 
2012-12-11 03:03:56 PM

Dafatone:
/Is crotch emphasis really the way guys get sexualized anyway?


I'm gonna go ahead and take a wild-ass guess that men and women are sexualized by emphasizing their secondary sexual characteristics (men: muscles, manly jawlines, and sometimes facial hair depending on what's in fashion; women: hips and boobs and flowing head-hair) and that comic book art is as often stylized as it is representational.

But that's just a guess :/
 
2012-12-11 03:04:31 PM

rocky_howard: Nightwing Butt, missing from the previous post:

[i34.photobucket.com image 767x520]


Looks like he's farting, with the sound effect added.
 
2012-12-11 03:06:14 PM

Mike Chewbacca: She has ample breasts. In the second image, she's facing the "camera" and so her breasts are visible, but nothing is done to draw attention to them. In the original, the character is turned in such a way that her breasts are silhouetted perfectly by a much lighter background. They are very sexualized, and the contrast in the dark uniform and the very light background immediately calls attention to her tits. It's almost like black and white are the first thing human eyes see (which is why that Tool song goes, "Black and white are all I see, red and yellow that came to be, reaching out to me, lets me see"). In the second image, Scarlett's arm is behind her boob, so there is no silhouette.


Now you're not even trying... The background around Scarlett's breasts isn't much different than her suit.

Ironically, both Cap and Hawkeye's crotch have much lighter backgrounds than Scarlett's breasts.


Also you're a weird human being if the first thing your eyes focus on are her breasts. Which are a very tiny part of the poster.
 
2012-12-11 03:06:15 PM

Theaetetus: [i.imgur.com image 687x1044]
What if the male Avengers posed like the female one?


I'm fine with that, 'cept maybe for goatse Hulk
 
2012-12-11 03:11:28 PM

give me doughnuts: dericwater: LectertheChef: Moto Corsa, a Ducati dealership, did it better, with their Manigale photos.

Fantastic! Guys cheated by wearing 2.5" or so heels while the singular female model was wearing 5"+ heels.


You try finding a pair of stilettos in a men's 12.5 EEE!


I live in SF. No problems finding a couple of those.
 
2012-12-11 03:13:02 PM

rocky_howard: PsiChick: The problem is more than a bit less 'ZOMG COMICS MAKE PEOPLE LOOK SEXY THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!11!!eleventy!' and more 'Um, why is it that the male body language is dominant and the female body language is so submissive I could have posted this on a BDSM site?'.

/Because really, I've seen women in less submissive positions on those sites while they were in the sub position for porn shoots.

Now this is an interesting position. Yeah, I can see why some of those would be seen as submissive. But are we going to have an standardized discussion? Because this is all over the place, as it is.

For example, look for Mega Steve post featuring two amazon-like women holding swords. Do you consider that to be submissive?


The one where they're very clearly not wearing bras, their clothes are half torn off, and they're doing that half-bow meant to show off ass and tits? That's submissive as hell--it's implying that the viewer gets to dominate these women who no one else can dominate. That's a lot of the 'token strong woman' stuff, too--instead of an actual human being, it's just a walking weapon the main character can 'tame'.

/If I weren't aromantic that would drive me up the wall, because lately that one gets defined as romantic love. As it is, I just said 'fark it, this book has no pairings' and made everyone siblings.
 
2012-12-11 03:16:54 PM

rocky_howard: dukef: Here's a whole series of them courtesy of a photographer with a sense of humor.

That was a great link. This is an actually apt way of presenting the...I don't want to say issue, because is this even an issue? [...]


I think it is an issue, if you consider that we aren't talking just about comic books, but rather centuries old traditions of representation in both fine art and popular culture in which women are consistently represented either as 1) passive non-agents that exist primarily for the titillation of the male viewer or 2) burlesque, hyperbolic ball busting amazons that exist primarily for the titillation for the male viewer (particularly as the latter allows such a viewer to libidinize the idea of the powerful woman without actually submitting to any women in power). Yes there are important exceptions to this dichotomy (it doesn't by any means describe all images of women), and yes there are female viewers that get off on it too, but it is a powerful representational strain in our culture that helps craft very limiting and even devastating notions of femininity for us. 

/heh, I said "TITillate..."
 
2012-12-11 03:18:40 PM

PsiChick: The one where they're very clearly not wearing bras, their clothes are half torn off, and they're doing that half-bow meant to show off ass and tits? That's submissive as hell--it's implying that the viewer gets to dominate these women who no one else can dominate. That's a lot of the 'token strong woman' stuff, too--instead of an actual human being, it's just a walking weapon the main character can 'tame'.

/If I weren't aromantic that would drive me up the wall, because lately that one gets defined as romantic love. As it is, I just said 'fark it, this book has no pairings' and made everyone siblings.


Um, I don't know which pic you looked at but they don't have "clothes half torn off". The "clearly not wearing bras" is not even a point, when you go to the beach, do you wear bras? No.

And I don't even know where you got the "the viewer gets to dominate these women no one else can dominate". That's just weak sauce. So every fictional dominant man is also made for the girls who gets to dominate these men no one else can dominate? Oh, that's the bad boy trope, right? Got it.
 
2012-12-11 03:24:21 PM

rocky_howard: Also you're a weird human being male or bi/gay female if the first thing your eyes focus on are her breasts


FTFY.

Farkette here. I failed (I think it's a fail. . . ) the gay test. The first thing I saw on that poster was T&A.
 
2012-12-11 03:26:30 PM

farkingnotworking: I think it is an issue, if you consider that we aren't talking just about comic books, but rather centuries old traditions of representation in both fine art and popular culture in which women are consistently represented either as 1) passive non-agents that exist primarily for the titillation of the male viewer or 2) burlesque, hyperbolic ball busting amazons that exist primarily for the titillation for the male viewer (particularly as the latter allows such a viewer to libidinize the idea of the powerful woman without actually submitting to any women in power). Yes there are important exceptions to this dichotomy (it doesn't by any means describe all images of women), and yes there are female viewers that get off on it too, but it is a powerful representational strain in our culture that helps craft very limiting and even devastating notions of femininity for us. 

/heh, I said "TITillate..."


But couldn't you say the opposite too? Especially in regards to masculinity? Personally I've even suffered (not emotionally, just y'know, that it has happened) from that when some people (mostly girls) have thought I was gay because some of my mannerisms or just because I behave and have different interests than what "real men" do.

Masculinity standard also exists and it affects many men too, so to paint it as a "female problem" is disingenuous. The thing is that, ironically, men get mocked/laughed upon if they even dare say anything.

Look at the whole weight issue. Making fun of the weight of a fat/overweight female is frowned upon. Fat men are still the heart of cheap comedy.

If an overweight woman shares her plight with trying to lose weight, she'll probably get support.
A man doing the same usually leads to derision and calls of "hti the gym, fattie!"

So it's not so clear and cut.
 
2012-12-11 03:26:46 PM

rocky_howard


Also you're a weird human being if the first thing your eyes focus on are her breasts. Which are a very tiny part of the poster.


Meaning "hetero male who reads comic books".
 
2012-12-11 03:27:19 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: I wish they had done more than just one pose.


I was into laughing at Jim Hines doing weird cover poses before it was cool.

I like the addition of the costume, though.
 
2012-12-11 03:28:27 PM

Peki: Farkette here. I failed (I think it's a fail. . . ) the gay test. The first thing I saw on that poster was T&A.


Around these parts we call that success.
 
2012-12-11 03:32:44 PM

rocky_howard: Um, I don't know which pic you looked at but they don't have "clothes half torn off". The "clearly not wearing bras" is not even a point, when you go to the beach, do you wear bras? No.

And I don't even know where you got the "the viewer gets to dominate these women no one else can dominate". That's just weak sauce. So every fictional dominant man is also made for the girls who gets to dominate these men no one else can dominate? Oh, that's the bad boy trope, right? Got it.


Ah, I thought you were referring to a post a page ago that had what I was describing, since Google gave me nothing. Wondered why you used that example...But what I'm referring to is pretty standard for comics, and it's a great way of annoying the crap out of me.

What you're describing sounds like a totally normal pic, albeit one where the woman wears sexy clothing. In which case, meh, who cares? My problem is more that you get cases where you have, say, a superheroine who is doing just fine until a minor stumbling block...and suddenly the nerdy dweeb is saving her life despite there being no need and the superheroine 'settles down' with him. Or the kid who barely survives the zombie apocalypse falls in love with the badass ninja and the badass ninja suddenly reverses personality to justify falling in love back.

The bad boy trope...I think that's just the logical conclusion of idiots and gender roles. For a long time the gender role was that a woman 'civilized' the 'savage' man, and the 'savage' man ruled over her. Thus, we get idiot girls wanting to fark sparkly vampires.

/These are all sexually normative behaviors, even wanting to dominate a powerful woman\man. The problem is that no one farking displays any other type of behavior, which is obnoxious.
 
2012-12-11 03:38:13 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: The My Little Pony Killer: I wish they had done more than just one pose.

I was into laughing at Jim Hines doing weird cover poses before it was cool.

I like the addition of the costume, though.


And there's more!
 
2012-12-11 03:45:34 PM
Obligatory:

i470.photobucket.com
via Link
 
2012-12-11 03:48:10 PM

Boojum2k: Peki: Farkette here. I failed (I think it's a fail. . . ) the gay test. The first thing I saw on that poster was T&A.

Around these parts we call that success.


Yeah, I could never be sure of that one. It's like the pencil test (for bras, not the thigh one). "Failing" can be a good thing.
 
2012-12-11 03:54:05 PM

Peki: Boojum2k: Peki: Farkette here. I failed (I think it's a fail. . . ) the gay test. The first thing I saw on that poster was T&A.

Around these parts we call that success.

Yeah, I could never be sure of that one. It's like the pencil test (for bras, not the thigh one). "Failing" can be a good thing.


Have to love tests that, the more you study for, the more likely you will fail.

/But the homework rocks
 
2012-12-11 03:59:50 PM
farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-11 04:01:55 PM

penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link


So the female in the comic is a yaoi fan. You know, there's art out there for her, and she wouldn't like it if the guy got to change it to suit his tastes instead.
 
2012-12-11 04:06:51 PM
I love this thread So Much! I have to have a supply of new keyboards for this one!
 
2012-12-11 04:18:26 PM

penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link


I really don't buy that most women would find that new picture hotter.
 
2012-12-11 04:19:16 PM

Boojum2k: penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link

So the female in the comic is a yaoi fan. You know, there's art out there for her, and she wouldn't like it if the guy got to change it to suit his tastes instead.


You know, your argument would sound better if you didn't say "female" and "guy."
 
2012-12-11 04:26:35 PM
It's almost like the comic book target demographic is young men. Shocking.
 
2012-12-11 04:27:08 PM

Dafatone: Boojum2k: penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link

So the female in the comic is a yaoi fan. You know, there's art out there for her, and she wouldn't like it if the guy got to change it to suit his tastes instead.

You know, your argument would sound better if you didn't say "female" and "guy."


I chose female because she's drawn like a teen, yet argues like a grown woman, and is only clearly "female." In fact, looking at the comic, the detail on her is so much more precise, she even has drawn in eyes, whereas the guy is a horrible caricature, specifically meant to dehumanize. He's a strawman of the artists imagination of a typical "guy."

And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.
 
2012-12-11 04:29:16 PM

Mega Steve: Raw_fishFood: I just sorta wish comics in general were more anatomically correct. I mean, there are plenty of poses that make no sense for males or females that plague comics.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 454x695]

You mean women don't bend this way? Damn you, Liefeld!


OK if they ever make a third list that one goes in there. It's painfully obvious Rob drew sword first then realized he needed to have that second boob fully visible and drew it over the blade. God he's terrible.
 
2012-12-11 04:29:34 PM

Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.


It doesn't matter what Batman look like. He's a billionaire.
 
2012-12-11 04:31:06 PM

HailRobonia: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

It doesn't matter what Batman look like. He's a billionaire.


You win!
 
2012-12-11 04:33:52 PM

averagejoe42: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

Try not to laugh soda out your nose.


That's beautiful.

Isn't the batman/catwoman a modern take on the old Aztec Warrior with Fallen Maiden motif, where a woman's genital area is more important than her face?

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-11 04:37:38 PM

Mike Chewbacca: It's almost like black and white are the first thing human eyes see (which is why that Tool song goes, "Black and white are all I see, red and yellow that came to be, reaching out to me, lets me see").


Bullshiat. Maynard says it was based on aboriginal creation stories
 
2012-12-11 04:38:38 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: averagejoe42: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

Try not to laugh soda out your nose.

That's beautiful.

Isn't the batman/catwoman a modern take on the old Aztec Warrior with Fallen Maiden motif, where a woman's genital area is more important than her face?

[media.tumblr.com image 420x635]


Is that where those stink lines are coming from?
 
2012-12-11 04:44:06 PM

umad: Mike Chewbacca: It's almost like black and white are the first thing human eyes see (which is why that Tool song goes, "Black and white are all I see, red and yellow that came to be, reaching out to me, lets me see").

Bullshiat. Maynard says it was based on aboriginal creation stories


Hunh. High school me would have known that (because you can't love a band in high school and not learn everything about them). Still, babies at first only see contrasts of white and black, and then the next colors they can see are red and yellow.
 
2012-12-11 04:45:28 PM

HailRobonia: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

It doesn't matter what Batman look like. He's a billionaire.


Totally true.

www.nndb.com
 
2012-12-11 04:59:23 PM

browntimmy: I really don't buy that most women would find that new picture hotter.


Spend some time on tumblr. So many drawings/photos of sensitive, bendy, & beautiful guys.
 
2012-12-11 05:07:48 PM
http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/the_codes_of_gender_2009/
 
2012-12-11 05:37:05 PM
Less whining, more Nightwing ass.

www.fanboysoftheuniverse.com
 
2012-12-11 06:01:22 PM

Theaetetus: Ambivalence: Theaetetus: [cdn.mommyish.com image 332x1024]
Male superheroes posed like Wonder Woman.

The shape of a man's pelvis is such that they are physically incapable of tilting it in that fashion. Which may explain why men find it so alluring in women.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 458x700]
The shape of a woman's pelvis is such that they're also physically incapable of tilting it in that fashion... Have you never actually seen a woman?


Obviously you aren't a fan of shibari.
 
2012-12-11 06:19:04 PM

Boojum2k: Dafatone: Boojum2k: penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link

So the female in the comic is a yaoi fan. You know, there's art out there for her, and she wouldn't like it if the guy got to change it to suit his tastes instead.

You know, your argument would sound better if you didn't say "female" and "guy."

I chose female because she's drawn like a teen, yet argues like a grown woman, and is only clearly "female." In fact, looking at the comic, the detail on her is so much more precise, she even has drawn in eyes, whereas the guy is a horrible caricature, specifically meant to dehumanize. He's a strawman of the artists imagination of a typical "guy."

And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.


If I find clever women with glasses and clipboards attractive, does that mean that comic is a sexual objectification of women?

/So, about this "false equivalence" thing...
 
2012-12-11 06:37:28 PM
Surely this original and never-before-seen commentary has finally exposed the heretofore-unseen sexism within the world of comic book art, and the public will forevermore demand equal sexual objectification for all characters, male and female, found within the pages of this most widely consumed of all visual media.

And thus the world was saved.

Amen.
 
2012-12-11 06:39:42 PM

LectertheChef: Moto Corsa, a Ducati dealership, did it better, with their Manigale photos.


I was looking for that earlier. Glad you found it.

/I can never see those guys the same again
//especially Todd
 
2012-12-11 06:43:31 PM

dericwater: LectertheChef: Moto Corsa, a Ducati dealership, did it better, with their Manigale photos.

Fantastic! Guys cheated by wearing 2.5" or so heels while the singular female model was wearing 5"+ heels.


I would laugh my ass off seeing AJ try standing in 5" heels.
 
2012-12-11 06:49:33 PM
Shut up Scalzi, you cock.
 
2012-12-11 07:01:21 PM
www.shortpacked.com
 
2012-12-11 07:12:15 PM

Theaetetus: [30.media.tumblr.com image 274x377]
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
[media.tumblr.com image 400x263]


Did you flunk geometry? Her torso is rotated about 45 degrees and her head a little more than that for a total slightly over 90.
 
2012-12-11 07:25:58 PM

penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link


How is the portrayal of women in comics not a power fantasy for them aswell? The women are often strong, beautiful, desired, rich, intelligent...

And the character in that comic isnt a girl or a female. Its a chick. "chick" is the correct term i believe...
 
2012-12-11 07:29:56 PM
i1282.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 07:35:42 PM

spamdog: Shut up Scalzi, you cock.


You have a problem with Scalzi why exactly?

Perhaps you stared at his seductive pose too intensely and too literally. He's more than just a personification of male sexuality, you know.
 
2012-12-11 07:36:21 PM
I'm not trying to be insensitive, but women have access to a wealth of literature that sexualizes men. When you look deep into these (admittedly a trifle shallow) expressions, I urge you to think about romance novels in which the men were written by a man instead of a woman.

Is it as pervasive? Does it shape society? No, of course not -- there really is some lingering objectification of women in places it doesn't really belong. But reaching deep into targeted media looking for reasons to take offense? Both genders are guilty of having some idealized vision of the other sex, and writing it into media. That's not the problem you want to solve, and you're merely mischaracterizing yourselves by pursuing it.
 
2012-12-11 07:45:12 PM

desertmouse: You have a problem with Scalzi why exactly?


I thought it was pretty obvious. He's a cock.
 
2012-12-11 07:50:55 PM

Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]


...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?
 
2012-12-11 07:55:12 PM

mikefinch: penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link

How is the portrayal of women in comics not a power fantasy for them aswell? The women are often strong, beautiful, desired, rich, intelligent...

And the character in that comic isnt a girl or a female. Its a chick. "chick" is the correct term i believe...



And remember, chicks grow up to become broads.
 
2012-12-11 08:04:02 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]

...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?


Liefeld never shows feet.
 
2012-12-11 08:10:16 PM
Didn't anyone notice that Iron Man and Black Widow are in pretty much the same pose in the Avengers poster? They're just rotated differently with respect to the viewer.
 
2012-12-11 08:16:53 PM

Mentat: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]

...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?

Liefeld never shows feet.


Damn.

You know what this thread needs? Namor.

4.bp.blogspot.com

scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com

images2.wikia.nocookie.net

www.comicbookmovie.com

media.comicvine.com
 
Ook
2012-12-11 09:24:14 PM

Dokushin: I'm not trying to be insensitive, but women have access to a wealth of literature that sexualizes men. When you look deep into these (admittedly a trifle shallow) expressions, I urge you to think about romance novels in which the men were written by a man instead of a woman.

Is it as pervasive? Does it shape society? No, of course not -- there really is some lingering objectification of women in places it doesn't really belong. But reaching deep into targeted media looking for reasons to take offense? Both genders are guilty of having some idealized vision of the other sex, and writing it into media. That's not the problem you want to solve, and you're merely mischaracterizing yourselves by pursuing it.


Too many people claim that that sexualization doesn't actually exist. Its pervasiveness, and the fact that it happens in romance novels as well as comics, isn't something that's going to change, but it needs to be acknowledged as being there or people who don't have good parents who point out the difference between fantasy and reality will think that this is the way the world is and should be. And that's part of why I've had to deal with jerkasses on the street making shiatty aggressive come-ons AND why aging moms made catcalls at the actors from twilight. Neither one is appropriate and the only way to end that is if people can acknowledge that it's not the way reality is or should be.

It's fine for comics to be fantasy. I like a lot of fantasies myself, including some comics (Strangers in Paradise, for instance, and Empowered if you want to get sexier) but everyone needs to be able to say that it's an awesome fantasy and not the way the world just is.
 
2012-12-11 09:26:47 PM
Oh Namor, you are the Vegeta of the Seas.
 
2012-12-11 09:40:57 PM

Dokushin: Is it as pervasive?


In terms of genre fiction, romance is either the 800 or 600 pound gorilla in the room (I forget where mysteries/thrillers rank). Considering how the comic book industry is ailing right now, I would not be surprised if romances are much more widely read than comic books.

Here's something interesting from a writing book I read once (this touches on how media marketed to men or women objectifies the opposite sex, and it's worth contemplating): "This means that he [the male protagonist] must personify the 'five Ss': single, sexy, sweet, smart, solvent (if not actually rich) . . ."
 
2012-12-11 10:04:13 PM

Chthonic Echoes: Dokushin: Is it as pervasive?

In terms of genre fiction, romance is either the 800 or 600 pound gorilla in the room (I forget where mysteries/thrillers rank). Considering how the comic book industry is ailing right now, I would not be surprised if romances are much more widely read than comic books.

Here's something interesting from a writing book I read once (this touches on how media marketed to men or women objectifies the opposite sex, and it's worth contemplating): "This means that he [the male protagonist] must personify the 'five Ss': single, sexy, sweet, smart, solvent (if not actually rich) . . ."


As noted above, that's "false equivalence," because its okay when women do it.

/I don't really care, I am capable of separating fantasy and reality. So are most men and women. You're not going to convince the ones that can't.
 
2012-12-11 10:32:01 PM
Bending over to clean the bathtub is one of the sexist poses ever.
 
2012-12-11 10:39:46 PM
All of these "switch men for women's poses" make the men look feminized apart from the poses. So it changes too many variables. If you're complaining about the costume, just switch the costume. You can't switch the pose AND the costume and complain it's all about the pose.

Or they draw them in a stupid cartoony fashion that makes them look idiotic, and then say "look what changing the pose does omg!"
 
2012-12-11 10:52:36 PM
www.whatsonxiamen.com 

Ooooo, yeah....now thrust forward your snatch just a little...make the guys gag for it

www.themalaysianinsider.com
 
2012-12-11 11:48:36 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mentat: [i1282.photobucket.com image 500x313]

...any more pictures from whatever that's from, preferably ones that show more of him?

Liefeld never shows feet.

Damn.

You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]


Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.

Whereas I'm sure you'll find a lot of women who think Gambit (X-Men) is sexy because of his personality and attitude, nothing to do with his "looks".

/Fabio is revolting
//Are there seriously women who non-ironically think he's hot?
 
2012-12-11 11:54:43 PM

if_i_really_have_to: Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.


Swing and miss.

First, the typical fallacy of saying that it's also a male fantasy, because y'know, oppression!
Second, the fact that most men don't think of Namor as a silly looking dude in a speedo, or worse, this:

www.blogcdn.com

Which is clearly designed to be a male fantasy because secretly we all dream of....okay, what the fark are you even saying? That's such a canned cliched social justice statement it just hurts to read...
 
2012-12-12 12:29:11 AM

Ook: Dokushin:

It's fine for comics to be fantasy. I like a lot of fantasies myself, including some comics (Strangers in Paradise, for instance, and Empowered if you want to get sexier) but everyone needs to be able to say that it's an awesome fantasy and not the way the world just is.


Are there lots of people who think that books full of men who can fly, bend steel with their bare hands, see through walls and shrug off bullets represent "the way the world just is?"

'Cuz speaking personally, I understood as a child that no one dresses up like a bat to fight crime... and that no one looked like Wonder Woman in real life.
 
Ook
2012-12-12 01:45:45 AM

lamecomedian: Ook: Dokushin:

It's fine for comics to be fantasy. I like a lot of fantasies myself, including some comics (Strangers in Paradise, for instance, and Empowered if you want to get sexier) but everyone needs to be able to say that it's an awesome fantasy and not the way the world just is.

Are there lots of people who think that books full of men who can fly, bend steel with their bare hands, see through walls and shrug off bullets represent "the way the world just is?"

'Cuz speaking personally, I understood as a child that no one dresses up like a bat to fight crime... and that no one looked like Wonder Woman in real life.


and because you recognized those were fantasies, did you also recognize the interpersonal dynamics as fantasies? The postures? The ethnic make-up of the hordes of bystanders? You were an amazingly sophisticated child then, because there are a fair number of websites where people will argue that the comics get those just fine.
 
2012-12-12 01:52:22 AM
Is it just me or is there a real streak of social conservatism amongst social justice crusaders?

What's the status of porn amongst these people? Is porn liberating or is it objectifying women?
 
2012-12-12 02:34:09 AM

Ook: and because you recognized those were fantasies, did you also recognize the interpersonal dynamics as fantasies? The postures? The ethnic make-up of the hordes of bystanders? You were an amazingly sophisticated child then, because there are a fair number of websites where people will argue that the comics get those just fine.


Clearly superhero comics, an phenomenon barely 80 years old, is the cause of those problems that have existed since thousands of years ago.
 
2012-12-12 05:04:02 AM

buttery_shame_cave: [www.shortpacked.com image 550x818]


Why would that art make a man feel uncomfortable?

No comic fan I know would care, hell most comic shops I know have racks of comics with men drawn like that.

If you have to misrepresent the other side of a debate then maybe you don't have much of a point to begin with.

Also, for those looking for male comic characters posing, check out Denny O'Neil's run on the Question. Vic Sage's favourite recreational activity is apparently doing yoga in his underpants.
 
2012-12-12 05:39:41 AM

weltallica: white people are victims of racism too! It's called racism


FTFY

Just because it`s against white people does not make it `reverse`, it`s still racism you f*ck. It is still racist to judge someone by the colour of their skin even if that skin is not black.

You don`t seem to realise this.

On the flip side, that does not make racism OK.
 
2012-12-12 07:13:21 AM
Another site that reveals the crimes against anatomy in comics is this one:

Escher Girls

The redraws are pretty great.
 
2012-12-12 10:52:44 AM

penthesilea: browntimmy: I really don't buy that most women would find that new picture hotter.

Spend some time on tumblr. So many drawings/photos of sensitive, bendy, & beautiful guys.


I'm sure some women are into that. But just a few hours ago on a talk show I was watching they showed an underwear ad with David Beckam that made all the women in the audience swooon, and he had a very serious, tough "bad-boy" look on his face. That "improved" batman comic above looks more like the kind of guy women would want to take shopping with them.
 
2012-12-12 10:59:47 AM

spamdog: Is it just me or is there a real streak of social conservatism amongst social justice crusaders?


No. They are no better than the fundies.
 
2012-12-12 11:30:59 AM

tshauk: Why?

Just, WHY?


To show how stupid it is to pose women like that.
 
2012-12-12 12:11:23 PM

dukef: Here's a whole series of them courtesy of a photographer with a sense of humor.


"Hey web developer guy. Everyone hates slideshows, so let's avoid that, ok?"

"Sure thing! No slide shows. But let's force everyone to scroll sideways!"

"Oooh! Innovative and fresh!"
 
2012-12-12 01:20:42 PM
It's always amazing to me how outraged people who disagree with the idea that there's a large sexist overtone to something are.

Chill. Your side is winning or in power or getting to see what you want to see or whatever. Someone saying "but there's a problem with this" isn't going to change anything. Calm down.

/And no, "but here's a comic that isn't problematic" isn't a counterargument.
 
2012-12-12 02:00:29 PM
rocky_howard: Seriously, if you're going to be this disingenuous, just stop arguing...

What are you doing posting in this thread, then?
 
2012-12-12 02:13:57 PM

Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.


And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.
 
2012-12-12 02:16:59 PM

ciberido: And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist


The ones she doesn't find sexiest?
 
2012-12-12 02:18:28 PM

natazha: Theaetetus: [30.media.tumblr.com image 274x377]
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
[media.tumblr.com image 400x263]

Did you flunk geometry? Her torso is rotated about 45 degrees and her head a little more than that for a total slightly over 90.


Um, no. Butt-to-face is almost 180 degrees. Did you fail at counting?
 
2012-12-12 02:22:32 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]


Cracked has something to say about Namor and sexism in comics.
 
2012-12-12 02:23:09 PM

ProfessorOhki: ciberido: And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist

The ones she doesn't find sexiest?


Sorry, I meant "sexiest" as in "most sexy," not "sexist."
 
2012-12-12 02:26:48 PM

if_i_really_have_to: Keizer_Ghidorah: You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]

Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.

Whereas I'm sure you'll find a lot of women who think Gambit (X-Men) is sexy because of his personality and attitude, nothing to do with his "looks".


Yes, sorry to repeat myself, but there is a response to the claim that Namor is drawn as "beefcake" for female readers.
 
2012-12-12 02:28:55 PM

ciberido: natazha: Theaetetus: [30.media.tumblr.com image 274x377]
See how Wonder Woman's shoulders are back, while she's thrusting her chest forward, while rotating almost 180 degrees? Not even a contortionist can do that one:
[media.tumblr.com image 400x263]

Did you flunk geometry? Her torso is rotated about 45 degrees and her head a little more than that for a total slightly over 90.

Um, no. Butt-to-face is almost 180 degrees. Did you fail at counting?


Now now, you're both wrong. It's 130ish. If that contortionist was standing it'd be pretty close. In fact, you can tell he's got more torso twist than her because his left arm has crossed his ass and hers hasn't. It's the spine arching combined with the rotation that makes it horrific. Not to mention that it's a ridiculous looking pose to start with.
 
2012-12-12 02:43:03 PM

ciberido: And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.


As should the person who drew that comic, don't you think?

----

Now, if you listen closely you can hear the argument of ciberido going...*pop*
 
2012-12-12 02:44:21 PM

ciberido: Yes, sorry to repeat myself, but there is a response to the claim that Namor is drawn as "beefcake" for female readers.


An article in Cracked said it, by damnation if it must be true!

Newsflash: Nobody has said Namor is drawn like that for the ladies. Making strawmen is bad, using strawmen made by other people is even worse.

Also, nobody wants to be Namor.
 
2012-12-12 02:50:01 PM

rocky_howard: ciberido: And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

As should the person who drew that comic, don't you think?

----

Now, if you listen closely you can hear the argument of ciberido going...*pop*


The only thing I hear is evidence you've never been on deviant art, or tumblr, or any other site with a population of (sometimes) heterosexual female artists.
 
2012-12-12 02:58:02 PM

sp86: The only thing I hear is evidence you've never been on deviant art, or tumblr, or any other site with a population of (sometimes) heterosexual female artists.


Cute, but nope. I'm an 8 years old Deviant and a 4 years old Tumblerer so FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL.

Keep assuming :)
 
2012-12-12 03:26:35 PM

ciberido: if_i_really_have_to: Keizer_Ghidorah: You know what this thread needs? Namor.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 263x408]

[scryptcomics.files.wordpress.com image 454x675]

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 471x726]

[www.comicbookmovie.com image 550x835]

[media.comicvine.com image 527x800]

Are you saying those pictures were drawn for the benefit of women? I'll think you'll find those pictures were fantasies drawn for men. They want to think of themselves as (and occasionally in or under) that. That is the ideal man, according to other men. I think you'll find very few women who think those pictures are hot or sexy.

Whereas I'm sure you'll find a lot of women who think Gambit (X-Men) is sexy because of his personality and attitude, nothing to do with his "looks".

Yes, sorry to repeat myself, but there is a response to the claim that Namor is drawn as "beefcake" for female readers.


Yeesh, I post him as eye candy and everyone goes bonkers.
 
2012-12-12 03:35:40 PM

rocky_howard: sp86: The only thing I hear is evidence you've never been on deviant art, or tumblr, or any other site with a population of (sometimes) heterosexual female artists.

Cute, but nope. I'm an 8 years old Deviant and a 4 years old Tumblerer so FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL.

Keep assuming :)


Then you're either a.) Willfully ignorant or b.) dumb as fark.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen today I'm thinking more the latter, but it might actually be a combination.
 
2012-12-12 03:57:31 PM

sp86: Then you're either a.) Willfully ignorant or b.) dumb as fark.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen today I'm thinking more the latter, but it might actually be a combination.


Awww, as if what you think is important to anyone. Keep it up with the insults though, really suits you :O)
 
2012-12-12 04:11:13 PM

rocky_howard: sp86: Then you're either a.) Willfully ignorant or b.) dumb as fark.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen today I'm thinking more the latter, but it might actually be a combination.

Awww, as if what you think is important to anyone. Keep it up with the insults though, really suits you :O)


Nobody cares what lurkers think, why the hell would I think that? There you go supposing for other people again, with no clue of what's really going on. When you build your rhetoric on that sort of dishonesty it's no wonder you object to people calling a dumb fark a dumb fark.
 
2012-12-12 04:55:03 PM

ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.


Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.
 
2012-12-12 05:00:18 PM

sp86: Nobody cares what lurkers think, why the hell would I think that? There you go supposing for other people again, with no clue of what's really going on. When you build your rhetoric on that sort of dishonesty it's no wonder you object to people calling a dumb fark a dumb fark.


Nice try, but you're as transparent as glass. Just stop posting and save yourself more embarrassment. Again, keep the insults up, it amuses us.
 
2012-12-12 05:05:24 PM

rocky_howard: Ook: and because you recognized those were fantasies, did you also recognize the interpersonal dynamics as fantasies? The postures? The ethnic make-up of the hordes of bystanders? You were an amazingly sophisticated child then, because there are a fair number of websites where people will argue that the comics get those just fine.

Clearly superhero comics, an phenomenon barely 80 years old, is the cause of those problems that have existed since thousands of years ago.


No, you jacknapkin. It's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
 
2012-12-12 05:09:38 PM

rocky_howard: sp86: Nobody cares what lurkers think, why the hell would I think that? There you go supposing for other people again, with no clue of what's really going on. When you build your rhetoric on that sort of dishonesty it's no wonder you object to people calling a dumb fark a dumb fark.

Nice try, but you're as transparent as glass. Just stop posting and save yourself more embarrassment. Again, keep the insults up, it amuses us.


"Us." As if you have friends on fark.

lol
 
2012-12-12 05:22:32 PM

browntimmy: ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.


That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.
 
2012-12-12 05:31:03 PM

Dafatone: browntimmy: ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.

That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.


Okay, so say someone wanted to illustrate a sexy David Beckham for the ad, would they give him those same eyes and bashful pose?
 
2012-12-12 05:33:44 PM

browntimmy: Dafatone: browntimmy: ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.

That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.

Okay, so say someone wanted to illustrate a sexy David Beckham for the ad, would they give him those same eyes and bashful pose?


Uh, no? Because Beckham's not a cartoon, so he wouldn't have giant cartoon eyes?

And how is that pose bashful? The eyes are, but the pose is just... standing there.
 
2012-12-12 05:39:16 PM

Dafatone: browntimmy: Dafatone: browntimmy: ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.

That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.

Okay, so say someone wanted to illustrate a sexy David Beckham for the ad, would they give him those same eyes and bashful pose?

Uh, no? Because Beckham's not a cartoon, so he wouldn't have giant cartoon eyes?

And how is that pose bashful? The eyes are, but the pose is just... standing there.


Very good, but someone could certainly illustrate a depiction of him, correct? If the intent is to be sexy, which look do you think appeals to the most women?
 
2012-12-12 05:45:37 PM

browntimmy: Very good, but someone could certainly illustrate a depiction of him, correct? If the intent is to be sexy, which look do you think appeals to the most women?


The one with him doing the dishes and taking out the trash?
 
2012-12-12 06:01:58 PM
i470.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-12 06:18:42 PM

browntimmy: Dafatone: Team Loki!

Nuh-uh, Team Thor!!1


I think there's a tiny chance that maybe you're not going to be able to converge on a single ideal male aesthetic from the perspective of all women.

/Though from the fangirls I know
//Hiddleston's got a healthy lead on Hemsworth
 
2012-12-12 06:35:38 PM

ProfessorOhki: I think there's a tiny chance that maybe you're not going to be able to converge on a single ideal male aesthetic from the perspective of all women.


But I can.

rich
 
2012-12-12 06:37:30 PM

browntimmy: Dafatone: browntimmy: Dafatone: browntimmy: ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.

That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.

Okay, so say someone wanted to illustrate a sexy David Beckham for the ad, would they give him those same eyes and bashful pose?

Uh, no? Because Beckham's not a cartoon, so he wouldn't have giant cartoon eyes?

And how is that pose bashful? The eyes are, but the pose is just... standing there.

Very good, but someone could certainly illustrate a depiction of him, correct? If the intent is to be sexy, which look do you think appeals to the most women?


As mentioned in the post above, it's not like there's one ideal or anything. Besides, I think (to completely contradict what I just said) you're putting too much emphasis on pose and attitude. Beckham's hot, whether he's being a bad boy or baking a cake.
 
2012-12-12 07:33:09 PM

Dafatone: browntimmy: Dafatone: browntimmy: Dafatone: browntimmy: ciberido: Boojum2k: And as noted, it's very unlikely most women would find that version of Batman more attractive.

And you're basing this on.... what? Some scientific study? You polled your women friends? You're a woman yourself and therefore know what women like?

And before you ask, I'm not claiming to know what kind of man the average woman finds sexist. But if you're going to make a claim about about what women prefer, you should back it up.

Did you read my post above? I'm not going to go searching for underwear ads at work, but the women on the show I was watching all went crazy for a picture of David Beckam with a serious, intense, bad-boy pose. And that didn't seem very out of ordinary to me at all. That batman picture looks like a guy who'd be too shy to ask you for your phone number.

That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.

Okay, so say someone wanted to illustrate a sexy David Beckham for the ad, would they give him those same eyes and bashful pose?

Uh, no? Because Beckham's not a cartoon, so he wouldn't have giant cartoon eyes?

And how is that pose bashful? The eyes are, but the pose is just... standing there.

Very good, but someone could certainly illustrate a depiction of him, correct? If the intent is to be sexy, which look do you think appeals to the most women?

As mentioned in the post above, it's not like there's one ideal or anything. Besides, I think (to completely contradict what I just said) you're putting too much emphasis on pose and attitude. Beckham's hot, whether he's being a bad boy or baking a cake.


And Scarlet Johanson would be hot making a sandwich with a goofy "Aw schucks" look on her face, but it wouldn't be as attention-getting as giving a sexy confident stare to the camera and showing cleavage. And both of you missed that I said "most" women.
 
2012-12-12 09:08:41 PM

sp86: "Us." As if you have friends on fark.

lol


you come to FARK to make friends? Bigger LOL.
 
2012-12-12 09:09:34 PM

Mike Chewbacca: No, you jacknapkin. It's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.


Ah, look, the old trick of "I can't deal with his argument, so let me insult him and say something witty"
 
2012-12-12 09:15:42 PM

Dafatone: That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.


Sorry but no, the more you use the word "ridiculous", the less weight your argument has.

You can't present to propositions and use such a vague adjective as a value of judgement upon one of them while using the other as fact. It's biased. You're not better than Fox News.

Illustrations don't have to conform to the exact real life representation of the subject. That actually stands against the very concept of illustration since you're using lines and limited color to represent the topics, not photographs.

What's next? We're going to criticize Johnny Bravo for being "ridiculous"?



(And again, ridiculous is so vague and subjective that it's a useless adjective. It doesn't mean anything nowadays. You don't like something? Just say it's ridiculous and that's that.)
 
2012-12-12 09:16:23 PM
Totally ridiculous
madeira.hccanet.org
 
2012-12-12 10:17:18 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: That Batman has a strong jaw and a ripped-but-human physique, rather than the ridiculous-built physiques of most superheroes. Beckham's body type is like that: great shape but not a huge pile of muscle. The only difference is the eyes. And we're talking about a cartoon.

Sorry but no, the more you use the word "ridiculous", the less weight your argument has.

You can't present to propositions and use such a vague adjective as a value of judgement upon one of them while using the other as fact. It's biased. You're not better than Fox News.

Illustrations don't have to conform to the exact real life representation of the subject. That actually stands against the very concept of illustration since you're using lines and limited color to represent the topics, not photographs.

What's next? We're going to criticize Johnny Bravo for being "ridiculous"?



(And again, ridiculous is so vague and subjective that it's a useless adjective. It doesn't mean anything nowadays. You don't like something? Just say it's ridiculous and that's that.)


You're... really overreacting to that word.

And you're pretty close to the problem, too. Which is that women are drawn/portrayed almost only one way, which is unrealistically stacked with breasts and ass pointed impossibly at the camera. Meanwhile, men get a little more flexibility, in that they're either lean and ripped (spiderman) or monstrously built. This lack of flexibility for women is an issue, as is the fact that men are slightly more realistic, in that they're less often as twisted.
 
2012-12-12 10:27:57 PM

Dafatone: You're... really overreacting to that word.


No, I'm not overreacting. It's the necessary reaction, it's a useless filler word.

And you're pretty close to the problem, too. Which is that women are drawn/portrayed almost only one way, which is unrealistically stacked with breasts and ass pointed impossibly at the camera. Meanwhile, men get a little more flexibility, in that they're either lean and ripped (spiderman) or monstrously built. This lack of flexibility for women is an issue, as is the fact that men are slightly more realistic, in that they're less often as twisted.

Okay, that's something I have no problems admitting. Men have a slightly larger variety of body types in superhero comics. Now, men in real life also have a larger gamut of body types since their muscles can grow bigger than women's. Talking about fit Olympic level bodies. Obviously fat distribution created different body types as well, pear shaped, ball shaped, etc so things are more even in that regard.

Problem is, superhero comics focus on perfect bodies and again, men do have a slightly larger gamut of body types in that category.
 
2012-12-13 01:56:53 PM

ProfessorOhki: browntimmy: Dafatone: Team Loki!

Nuh-uh, Team Thor!!1

I think there's a tiny chance that maybe you're not going to be able to converge on a single ideal male aesthetic from the perspective of all women.

/Though from the fangirls I know
//Hiddleston's got a healthy lead on Hemsworth


which is a shame, because, as a painfully straight guy, if both of those fellows walked up to me in a bar and started flirting me me, i'd let Chris Hemsworth buy me dinner first.

/but only dinner.
//okay, maybe coffee afterwards. but no more.
///well, okay maybe if he was really smooth we could play just the tip.
//dafuqdidijusttype?
 
2012-12-13 02:22:44 PM

rocky_howard: Dafatone: You're... really overreacting to that word.

No, I'm not overreacting. It's the necessary reaction, it's a useless filler word.

And you're pretty close to the problem, too. Which is that women are drawn/portrayed almost only one way, which is unrealistically stacked with breasts and ass pointed impossibly at the camera. Meanwhile, men get a little more flexibility, in that they're either lean and ripped (spiderman) or monstrously built. This lack of flexibility for women is an issue, as is the fact that men are slightly more realistic, in that they're less often as twisted.

Okay, that's something I have no problems admitting. Men have a slightly larger variety of body types in superhero comics. Now, men in real life also have a larger gamut of body types since their muscles can grow bigger than women's. Talking about fit Olympic level bodies. Obviously fat distribution created different body types as well, pear shaped, ball shaped, etc so things are more even in that regard.

Problem is, superhero comics focus on perfect bodies and again, men do have a slightly larger gamut of body types in that category.


Another thing to consider.
(Leffield-esq LSD addled drawings aside)

A lot of comic "art" work is an attempt at motion, characters diving, flipping, etc. For that reason, many such circumstances, male and female characters alike show ass and chest. Acrobatics, contorting like an eel or snake, etc. Justifies some of it, people gliding through the air like fish do in water. It happens when you stick people in situations where they're doing things other than just standing there, more so in unrealistic actions like flying. Just because someone see's tit and ass cleavage in one picture does not necessarily mean that sexiness was the express purpose.
Not denying it's amplified for the cause, as it were, but some of it would be purely natural in the circumstance.

To further put some ideals in perspective, there are a lot of romantic notions in the way males are displayed. Emo profile images with their head hung low, fist clenching dog tags....these are more of a trope than any realistic depiction of people. So one could argue that men get just as bad as women for not fitting reality.(again, lefield physique aside)

Men being emotional in that way, women being powerful action heroes. If anything, comics bust more stereotypes than they perpetrate.
 
2012-12-13 04:16:31 PM

omeganuepsilon: A lot of comic "art" work is an attempt at motion, characters diving, flipping, etc. For that reason, many such circumstances, male and female characters alike show ass and chest. Acrobatics, contorting like an eel or snake, etc. Justifies some of it,


Exactly. Also, exaggeration. The art is meant to be exaggerated and larger than life.
 
2012-12-13 08:42:03 PM

penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link


So what you're saying is some comics depict the fantasy of what men want both in themselves and others. That seems like a totally valid equivalency, and pretty basic demographic targeting, as practiced in almost all media outlets these days.

There's certainly room for discussion about how such practices may have undesirable externalities, but it's a much bigger discussion than comics or gender discrimination; there's plenty of entertainment depicting the fantasy of what women (or any other demographic group) want both in themselves and others, with exactly the same sort of side effects on other groups.
 
Ook
2012-12-13 09:35:11 PM

profplump: penthesilea: Obligatory:

[i470.photobucket.com image 550x818]
via Link

So what you're saying is some comics depict the fantasy of what men want both in themselves and others. That seems like a totally valid equivalency, and pretty basic demographic targeting, as practiced in almost all media outlets these days.

There's certainly room for discussion about how such practices may have undesirable externalities, but it's a much bigger discussion than comics or gender discrimination; there's plenty of entertainment depicting the fantasy of what women (or any other demographic group) want both in themselves and others, with exactly the same sort of side effects on other groups.


The problem really is that on one side you have people saying "we see this and it's WRONG and ruins everything!!!" and on the other you have people saying "it's perfectly balanced and could have no impact on anything!!!" and then people in the middle saying "uh, sure, I see it, but that happens in any media, who gives a shiat"

If everyone could say "ok, I see it" we could move on to figuring out if it actually matters. Does it impact or just reflect? A lot of more interesting ideas are getting bogged down in debates that boil down to "yes, this exists. will you just admit it already?"

Everyone accepts that there is more violence in video games than in real life, we can then debate whether or not viewing that changes your interaction with reality. We haven't gotten to that point with comics for most people yet, and things like these pictures and the hawkeye initiative thing get more people to agree that it exists.

It would be nice if the arguments could be had one at a time, because I think it'd be easier to get people to see the disparity if they weren't also fighting how much it could be affecting every/anything. I've been arguing that it exists, and had people fight back as though I said comics were the cause of all imbalance. Eesh people. Once you agree something exists and define some parameters for it you can set up studies to see if it has an affect. Can't really make a strong argument one way or the other until then.
 
2012-12-13 10:44:10 PM

Ook: Everyone accepts that there is more violence in video games than in real life, we can then debate whether or not viewing that changes your interaction with reality.


Not much debate to that one. Regardless to people's claims, millions upon millions(500k on just the latest call of duty, on xbox, as of 10 minutes ago, 500k online and playing who are not murderers) of people play video games and do not become murderers, gun nuts, or hyper aggressive psycho's.

Most people that you hear about, it's a correlation vs causation sort of deal. They are farked up people who happen to have played video games. They have an inner rage that will trigger on anything, it just happened to be video games.

All media works that way. The rapist had problems, likely before he saw porn at all, porn is not to blame.

As you said, it's a reflection. People produce what sells. What sells more than anything? Sex. Sex sells. All the way from porn to the bimbo's on FOX news, even CNN.

Emo sells too, look at Twilight.

A lot of people try to make it look like some conspiracy, some imaginary party trying to dictate what people should look like. No, the market does not work like that. Sure, it's a side effect for people who don't realize what pretty/sexy/etc really is. These people, these insecure to a fault people, they have a complex and they "learn".

The religious blame the devil, the misandrists blame the men, they misogynists blame the women, the blacks blame the whites, the whites the blacks, etc.

The masses though, they know what they like, they buy what they like, and they like Sex. That's the uncanny thing about the media/advertisers. They do it all out of greed, but they have made an art out of finding out what's most pleasing to those of us, down to the gritty details.

They've come to define society much like a dictionary does to language. That is not the same as dictate. It's more a descriptive thing, they split it up, categorize it, and slap a label on it. As in language, the written word is not law for the spoken word, written "rules" are an attempt to describe it.

Sure, some of it preys on the insecure, much the way language "authorities" do. Ad companies want profit, "authorities" on language want to feel superior and ordered.

I find it especially humorous, Militant Feminists, they want Ads to become less "predatory", because, as they purport in an unspoken fashion, women are apparently easily led by the nose and NEED that protection.

I find the idea very contrary to itself. Some individuals have problems, but not the sex as a whole.
 
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