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(Slate)   Dear CEOs: Quit whining about uncertainty   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, CEO, Brian Moynihan, World Economic Forum, Davos, doubts, Wall Street Journal, booms and busts, science fictional  
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6038 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Dec 2012 at 1:35 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 11:31:34 AM  
Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"? Now shut up and spend those millions! We dont care if you make any money! We tax you the second your wallet opens and that money has to go somewhere!! And we'll tax those people when they spend the money that you lost!


Oh and CEOs F-U! When you run out of money we'll have someone step up to the void and start throwing in money! Those people are limitless!
 
2012-12-11 11:42:22 AM  
I didn't read the whole article, but I can get behind the premise. The supposed reason a CEO makes millions of dollars a year is to guide his or her company to the best possible profits. If that job is harder because of 'uncertainty' then congratulations, you might have earned your pay.
 
2012-12-11 11:47:19 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?


How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?
 
2012-12-11 11:52:34 AM  

BSABSVR: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?

How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?


Don't bother, he's never interested in an actual discussion based on facts and merits. He says what he's been told to believe and refuses to step outside of that comfort zone and consider broader implications.
 
2012-12-11 11:53:41 AM  
Uncertainty = keep living in fear!
 
2012-12-11 11:57:22 AM  
They pay the CEOs the big bucks because it's hard to know how to make successful products in an uncertain world. That's the job.

And you get paid more money than god to do your job, so quit whining and get to work.
 
2012-12-11 12:08:47 PM  
Perhaps if they paid their workers a bit more (you know, so that they could afford things like their homes and food) maybe then they'll also have enough money to buy your product. You know, the one that you're so uncertain about.

Just a thought.
 
2012-12-11 12:11:14 PM  

BSABSVR: How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?


They had a buddy in the White House. Now they have someone who has come out and said they and their company arn't paying their fair share. Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share
 
2012-12-11 12:21:33 PM  
The only things that are certain are death and taxes

/you see where this is going, don't you?
 
2012-12-11 12:26:52 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The only things that are certain are death and taxes

/you see where this is going, don't you?


For CEO's and corporations, not even the latter. And despite their "personhood" for companies, not even the former.
 
2012-12-11 01:17:32 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: BSABSVR: How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

They had a buddy in the White House.



Considering what the economy did in his last full year in office -- note that I'm not blaming Bush for anything here, I'm just noting the timing -- wouldn't you have to agree that CEOs are pretty friggin' stupid if they think that all will be well if they only have a "buddy" in the White House?
 
2012-12-11 01:27:58 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: BSABSVR: How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

They had a buddy in the White House. Now they have someone who has come out and said they and their company arn't paying their fair share. Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share


Explain, then, the numerous companies (my own included) that haven't hired since 2001 even while consistently beating projections and being so cash rich it makes pigs in shiat green with envy.

No raises, no hiring, spending freezes, and no uncertainly.
 
2012-12-11 01:28:57 PM  

phaseolus: Considering what the economy did in his last full year in office -- note that I'm not blaming Bush for anything here, I'm just noting the timing -- wouldn't you have to agree that CEOs are pretty friggin' stupid if they think that all will be well if they only have a "buddy" in the White House?


Truth be told the President has very little actual power over the economy unless he does something earth shattering. The main power is that of a cheerleader. People who feel good buy things. What's what W did for us. And want to talk about insecurity! I remember the last year of W's term! There was no way that Dick Chaney was going to be the next president of the united states and the country had to pick between McCain and an unknown community organizer from Chicago. Not feeling much trust in either candidate.

People who feel good take chances and grow businesses. When you're told that you can't do it without government, and you're not doing your fair share you dont feel very good.


Obama did have a major effect on the economy with the PPACA. Too bad it had the exact opposite effect that he said he wanted.
 
2012-12-11 01:32:09 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"? Now shut up and spend those millions! We dont care if you make any money! We tax you the second your wallet opens and that money has to go somewhere!! And we'll tax those people when they spend the money that you lost!


Oh and CEOs F-U! When you run out of money we'll have someone step up to the void and start throwing in money! Those people are limitless!


you are such a farking credulous moron. stop talking about shiat you don't understand. stop pretending you understand economics.
 
2012-12-11 01:38:43 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Perhaps if they paid their workers a bit more (you know, so that they could afford things like their homes and food) maybe then they'll also have enough money to buy your product. You know, the one that you're so uncertain about.

Just a thought.


THIS.
 
2012-12-11 01:41:02 PM  
Top tier tax rates are going up for certain.

There; certainty! Now STFU and GBTW
 
2012-12-11 01:42:52 PM  
Hippo so jelly.
 
2012-12-11 01:43:21 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Perhaps if they paid their workers a bit more (you know, so that they could afford things like their homes and food) maybe then they'll also have enough money to buy your product. You know, the one that you're so uncertain about.

Just a thought.


My old boss at Chase told me that this January, they announced reord profits ($19B). Then in February, he didn't get a raise because "Europe is soft." fark, you Jamie Dimon.
 
2012-12-11 01:43:32 PM  

Diogenes: Explain, then, the numerous companies (my own included) that haven't hired since 2001 even while consistently beating projections and being so cash rich it makes pigs in shiat green with envy.


I dont know where you work but if they are at a size they want to be then why hire? I know we speck about companies like they are a one size fits all but there are some companies that dont want to grow and are happy the way they are. Not everyone is looking to take over the world.


Diogenes: No raises, no hiring, spending freezes, and no uncertainly.


And if it's working for them why not? If you'd work for 2001 wages I wouldn't pay you more. And if there is no uncertainty than odds are you're not worried about layoffs! Some people would trade in there higher paying job for that kind of security.
 
2012-12-11 01:45:22 PM  

Gig103: I didn't read the whole article, but I can get behind the premise. The supposed reason a CEO makes millions of dollars a year is to guide his or her company to the best possible profits. If that job is harder because of 'uncertainty' then congratulations, you might have earned your pay.


Given that many of them manufactured that uncertainty by speculating on high-risk investments in order to generate greater possible profits, I have no sympathy.

They bet. They lost. They now want assurances that their next bets bring enough returns to cover the bad bets they made last round. They aren't getting them.

So, they whine. Fark them.
 
2012-12-11 01:47:35 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share


Seems like those ultra-partisans (except when they're not) at the Tax Policy center know that Obama wants the Clinton-era rates on the top two brackets back - that would be rates of 36% and 39.6% on the second and top brackets, respectively. They have a whole breakdown and everything.

NBC also has it figured out, based at least partially on a Senate-passed bill which Obama supports - top rates of 39.6% and 36%.

Righties at CNS News also figured out Obama's secret code - 39.6% top rate, 36% next-highest bracket rate.

Forbes, something called McGladrey, the CS Monitor, even About.com - they have all seen a detailed plan, and in some cases, even analyzed it.

So do you not listen, or not care? I have my suspicions, but I'll wait for a response.
 
2012-12-11 01:47:57 PM  
I really feel bad for them. They could end up just like the rest of us. Poor things. boo farking hoo
 
2012-12-11 01:49:17 PM  

BSABSVR: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?

How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?


By having less of it. We didn't have a debt ceiling battle every 6 months, a tax code in near-continual flux, vilification of businesses and those who run them and the promise to make them pay their (always unquantified) "fair share", and as-yet-undetermined costs and regulations (Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Consumer Product Safety Commission, inter alia) about to cascade down from above. Another word for 'uncertainty' in this context is 'risk', and what CEOs are saying is that risk due to government action is much higher than they've had to deal with in the past, so naturally they're going to horde cash and hunker down until they have some clarity. Call it whining if you want, but unless you plan to force them to invest at gunpoint, you're going to see them keep sitting on the sidelines, not because they like to screw with the economy or forego profit, but because they don't know where to put their resources to get a return right now.
 
2012-12-11 01:49:50 PM  
I have been saying this for at least the last 2 years.

Corporate America has been sitting on a ton of cash, citing "the future is uncertain" excuse instead of investing in their work-forces and infrastructure.

Companies Sitting on More Cash Than Ever
 
2012-12-11 01:50:26 PM  
"Uncertainty" is Corp-Speak for I dont want to pay taxes cuz there's a darkie in the white house
 
2012-12-11 01:51:45 PM  
i3.ytimg.com

The Stealth Hippopotamus: If you'd work for 2001 wages I wouldn't pay you more.

We demand our job applicants to have ten years of experience,
a Bachelor's degree, and our pay rate begins at $8.00 an hour!

Suck it up, peons!
 
2012-12-11 01:53:21 PM  
Also, they can't stop blaming things on (or using the term) uncertainty. It tracks well with focus groups!
 
2012-12-11 01:53:25 PM  
This happened once during a really, really deep recession with high unemployment.
Now what was the solution that started companies reinvesting profits in the real economy?

/Sorry, farkdom, I just can't put my finger on it.
 
2012-12-11 01:53:45 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: They had a buddy in the White House. Now they have someone who has come out and said they and their company arn't paying their fair share. Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share



In the last 60 years corporate income taxes, as a percentage of Federal tax receipts, has fallen by 60%. Their fair share would be restoring that shortfall.
 
2012-12-11 01:56:37 PM  

jjorsett: BSABSVR: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?

How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

By having less of it. We didn't have...


No, but we did have a two-month election fight, 9/11, the mini-cession, anthrax, the actual recession, the runup to the Iraq War, the 2004 election, oil price spiked to $140/barrel, Katrina, Medicare D, September 2008, and TARP.

There are always major factors impacting risks and markets. Business can legitimately claim "uncertainty" every day for 3,650 consecutively; that doesn't make those concerns valid reasons for dicking over employees.
 
2012-12-11 01:59:13 PM  
Oh damn so you will have to leave the golf course and your 2 hour lunch early and go to work? My heart bleeds.
 
2012-12-11 02:00:12 PM  
jjorsett 2012-12-11 01:49:17 PM
[weak, limp, dangling excuses]

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-11 02:02:30 PM  
Really, I'm just getting tired of this mammon-worshipping and knob gobbling.

Those poor poor hideously oppressed billionaires, who have more $ than ten thousand of any of us will see in a hundred lifetimes each.
 
2012-12-11 02:03:06 PM  
the multinationals have had no issues investing in Nigeria. a country that has spent the past decade (at least) on the verge of civil war, with massive corruption and political gridlock.

IBM, HP, Kraft (now Mondelez), P&G, SC Johnson, Colgate-Palmolive, Exxon, GE, Siemens, Diageo, Vodafone, Research in Motion, Samsung, General Motors, Mastercard, Deloitte, Goodyear, etc. Most of these multinationals are recent entrants.

and yet they wont invest in the US, because of uncertainty.

bullshiat.
 
2012-12-11 02:11:44 PM  
Why? 50% of the country buys their bullshiat and is willing to hand them the world on a silver platter in exchange for a promise to be allowed to continue existing.
 
2012-12-11 02:13:03 PM  

jjorsett: BSABSVR: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?

How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

By having less of it. We didn't have a debt ceiling battle every 6 months, a tax code in near-continual flux, vilification of businesses and those who run them and the promise to make them pay their (always unquantified) "fair share", and as-yet-undetermined costs and regulations (Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Consumer Product Safety Commission, inter alia) about to cascade down from above. Another word for 'uncertainty' in this context is 'risk', and what CEOs are saying is that risk due to government action is much higher than they've had to deal with in the past, so naturally they're going to horde cash and hunker down until they have some clarity. Call it whining if you want, but unless you plan to force them to invest at gunpoint, you're going to see them keep sitting on the sidelines, not because they like to screw with the economy or forego profit, but because they don't know where to put their resources to get a return right now.


Oh gee wiz, they might not get to pay themselves 400% more than their employees do to all this uncertainty while maintaining record profits? That will suck for them. If I made 15 million and now I only get to make 13 or 14 next year in order to maintain the company profits after providing employees benefits and a living wage, I would have to kill myself. They better start hording even more or how will they survive? It must suck so bad to be a rich CEO and face all that uncertainty that if the corporation folds you will only get your golden parachute and get to live the exact same lifestyle you do now. Someone should start a charity for them.
 
2012-12-11 02:13:54 PM  

jjorsett: BSABSVR: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?

How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

By having less of it. We didn't have a debt ceiling battle every 6 months, a tax code in near-continual flux, vilification of businesses and those who run them and the promise to make them pay their (always unquantified) "fair share", and as-yet-undetermined costs and regulations (Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Consumer Product Safety Commission, inter alia) about to cascade down from above. Another word for 'uncertainty' in this context is 'risk', and what CEOs are saying is that risk due to government action is much higher than they've had to deal with in the past, so naturally they're going to horde cash and hunker down until they have some clarity. Call it whining if you want, but unless you plan to force them to invest at gunpoint, you're going to see them keep sitting on the sidelines, not because they like to screw with the economy or forego profit, but because they don't know where to put their resources to get a return right now.


All that does make things a bit uncertain. If LMT knew what the Military budget was going to look like in a month, they might be more likely to hire a couple people if they needed them.

The problem is that instead of the CEOs saying "GOP - stop holding stuff hostage. Just write a damn budget with compromises to get it through the house, senate and pres and raise the debt ceiling.", they're saying "We need more tax cuts! Uncertanty!!!"
 
2012-12-11 02:19:42 PM  

jjorsett: BSABSVR: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Haven't they ever heard of the wise old saying: "Shiat Happens"?

How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

By having less of it. We didn't have a debt ceiling battle every 6 months, a tax code in near-continual flux, vilification of businesses and those who run them and the promise to make them pay their (always unquantified) "fair share", and as-yet-undetermined costs and regulations (Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Consumer Product Safety Commission, inter alia) about to cascade down from above. Another word for 'uncertainty' in this context is 'risk', and what CEOs are saying is that risk due to government action is much higher than they've had to deal with in the past, so naturally they're going to horde cash and hunker down until they have some clarity. Call it whining if you want, but unless you plan to force them to invest at gunpoint, you're going to see them keep sitting on the sidelines, not because they like to screw with the economy or forego profit, but because they don't know where to put their resources to get a return right now.


The only thing you're right about is the debt ceiling debate, and that's because it used to be automatic. Tax rates have changed year after year. Deductions change year after year. This is not unique to Obama or even the 21st century. As for the vilification? Who gives a Fark as long as you're making money? Is there some sort of business principle wherein you have to be sufficiently validated in order to succeed?
 
2012-12-11 02:21:51 PM  

BSABSVR: How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?


There wasn't any. CEOs used to have future-predicting machines that were accurate to up to 3 years out (some of the bigger corporations had models that could go 5 years out or more), but Generalissimo Barack Insane Nobamacare forced them all to be destroyed when he took office.
 
2012-12-11 02:21:58 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Perhaps if they paid their workers a bit more (you know, so that they could afford things like their homes and food) maybe then they'll also have enough money to buy your product. You know, the one that you're so uncertain about.

Just a thought.


Not every job is a $80K/yr job.
 
2012-12-11 02:22:41 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: Oh gee wiz, they might not get to pay themselves 400% more than their employees do to all this uncertainty while maintaining record profits? That will suck for them.


It's not 400%. CEO pay for the S&P 500 is 380 TIMES the average worker's.


/Attempting to monopolize rail, torch, and pitchfork manufacturing. Investing in feather and tar futures.
 
2012-12-11 02:22:46 PM  

Dr Dreidel: So do you not listen, or not care? I have my suspicions, but I'll wait for a response.


What is planned is not always enacted. And if you haven't noticed politicians arn't on the list of the most trusted people on the planet. The President doesn't always get exactly want he wants, it doesn't matter who the President is.


Kittypie070: Suck it up, peons!


img580.imageshack.us

been dying to use that pic! TY

JK47: In the last 60 years corporate income taxes, as a percentage of Federal tax receipts, has fallen by 60%. Their fair share would be restoring that shortfall.


YEAH!!! Let's crank up those corporate income taxes! That won't hurt the poor at all!
 
2012-12-11 02:23:20 PM  

Diogenes: The Stealth Hippopotamus: BSABSVR: How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

They had a buddy in the White House. Now they have someone who has come out and said they and their company arn't paying their fair share. Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share

Explain, then, the numerous companies (my own included) that haven't hired since 2001 even while consistently beating projections and being so cash rich it makes pigs in shiat green with envy.

No raises, no hiring, spending freezes, and no uncertainly.


Increased productivity and automation :-(
 
2012-12-11 02:28:48 PM  

Diogenes: The Stealth Hippopotamus: BSABSVR: How did they deal with uncertainty up until 2008?

They had a buddy in the White House. Now they have someone who has come out and said they and their company arn't paying their fair share. Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share

Explain, then, the numerous companies (my own included) that haven't hired since 2001 even while consistently beating projections and being so cash rich it makes pigs in shiat green with envy.

No raises, no hiring, spending freezes, and no uncertainly.


Getting to keep your job is the new raise.
 
2012-12-11 02:29:12 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: They had a buddy in the White House. Now they have someone who has come out and said they and their company arn't paying their fair share. Makes a guy nervous until you find out what that person thinks is a fair share


I'm not suggesting that I think any particular tax rate is "fair" but they know the maximum which is the Clinton rates. So nervousness over, right?
 
2012-12-11 02:31:03 PM  
You know what they call a company who knows EXACTLY what their health insurance outlay and burden will be, not just next year, but five or even ten years down the road?

Canadian. (or Euro/Aussie/Japanese/yaddayadda)

You want to remove some uncertainty from the picture?
 
2012-12-11 02:36:52 PM  
Look at all that uncertainty. US CEO's are getting ripped off. They are all going to be wearing barrels soon if this keeps up.
 
2012-12-11 02:37:41 PM  
The image would have helped.
cdn.prosebeforehos.com
 
2012-12-11 02:39:18 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde:
Getting to keep your job is the new raise.


F'n, THIS.
The rank and file have had uncertainty held over them since the crash.
 
2012-12-11 02:42:23 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Dr Dreidel: So do you not listen, or not care? I have my suspicions, but I'll wait for a response.

What is planned is not always enacted. And if you haven't noticed politicians arn't on the list of the most trusted people on the planet. The President doesn't always get exactly want he wants, it doesn't matter who the President is.


So then no one ever knows what a president supports until he's already signed the bill - is that about right? (Or even afterwards; maybe he signed a bill to lull us into a false sense of security, and then when we're asleep in our beds - BAM! Socialism.)

The fact that Obama has a proposal on the table (complete with specifics!), the fact that he's on record supporting an already-passed Senate bill...those mean nothing? His public statements about returning to the Clinton-era rates on the top two brackets mean he can do a big switcharoo and no one but the brave blogger-patriots will expose the O'Fraudo? The fact that his most recent proposal is essentially the same one he's had since February (it's in one of those links) means Obama's a wishy-washy liar politician whose views change with the winds?

He farking campaigned on raising the top two brackets' rates, man. I realize that not everything from the campaign trail gets made into law, but you'd have to be purposefully and willfully ignorant of the debate to think Obama doesn't have a clear goal in mind for the plan, or to think that his plan is light on specifics.

There's also the numerous reports that, apart from the bracket rate fight, the President and Congressional Republicans are very close on a deal. According to WTOP, as soon as they solve that one, the rest of the deal is "done".
 
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