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(Metro)   You cross your legs and the next thing you know, you insult a whole country   (metro.co.uk) divider line 336
    More: Amusing, Iran, Swedish, Ahmadinejad, diplomats  
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24590 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 1:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 04:27:04 PM

sprawl15: Keizer_Ghidorah: Joe Blowme: sprawl15: CheekyMonkey: sprawl15: whidbey: We reconstructed Japan and Germany after a war.

This.

We didn't build the nation, we reconstructed it. HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

I'm sure you fancy yourself quite a witty chap, but to the rest of the world, the fact that you can't even be bothered to learn the terminology of world history & politics makes you sound like a dunce. You are akin to a Creationist who doesn't even understand what a scientific theory or the Scientific Sethod is, but insists that Intelligent Design is science.

ID is far more scientific than that idolatrous worship of Darwin's corpse. It tries to find out how and why God did a bunch of interesting and beautiful things while neo-Darwinists just say CHANCE DID IT LOL.

As opposed to the big bang theory where you have to just accept on faith something came from nothing and not question how, like the scientific method dictates

The entire point of science is FINDING OUT HOW, dipshiat. I have never, EVER, heard a scientist say "DON'T QUESTION HOW, JUST BELIEVE AND FOLLOW ME!".

No scientist yet has been able to answer why there are still monkeys if we evolved from them. We're superior in every way. So either the neo-Darwinists are saying that they think less of their fellow human beings than they think of a random monkey or they're just not looking at their own assumptions.

And don't even get me started on the hilarious disconnect of the neo-Darwinists and their economic theories. Demand side economics states that if people stop eating bananas, they'll stop growing. Obviously a ridiculous conclusion.

Stupid dims.


I'm really hoping that you're either trolling or making fun of Creationists.
 
2012-12-11 04:29:14 PM

BigNumber12: CheekyMonkey: BigNumber12: CheekyMonkey: Giving a unrequested backrub to Angela Merkel.

And she responded by kneeing him in the groin, right?

Oh, that's not how professional national representatives respond to each other on the world diplomatic stage?

Take a look at the photo in TFA again. Amadinnerjacket is not pointing his sole toward the Ambassador from Sweden. It isn't quite "tit for tat" thing, and the person that wrote the article is an idiot for assuming that it is.


All I had to go on was a photo and the reporter's analysis.

I certainly hope that TFA is BS, and Ahmadinejad is more reasonable than this.


Well, the Metro is a tabloid rag, and Ahmadinnerjacket's expression in the second photo doesn't look any more "furious" than it does in the first photo, so I think this might be a case of a crappy reporter getting wind of some Iranians complaining on the internet, and extrapolating poorly.

I did do some googling, but all I could find was references to blogs, and some news stories, all of which said "apparently gave offense".
 
2012-12-11 04:41:26 PM

mrshowrules: This thread is borderline epic retarded.


FTFY
 
2012-12-11 04:44:09 PM

sprawl15: CheekyMonkey: sprawl15: whidbey: We reconstructed Japan and Germany after a war.

This.

We didn't build the nation, we reconstructed it. HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

I'm sure you fancy yourself quite a witty chap, but to the rest of the world, the fact that you can't even be bothered to learn the terminology of world history & politics makes you sound like a dunce. You are akin to a Creationist who doesn't even understand what a scientific theory or the Scientific Sethod is, but insists that Intelligent Design is science.

ID is far more scientific than that idolatrous worship of Darwin's corpse. It tries to find out how and why God did a bunch of interesting and beautiful things while neo-Darwinists just say CHANCE DID IT LOL.


You know how I know you don't understand the scientific method?
 
2012-12-11 04:49:50 PM

cryinoutloud: Mega Steve: I walk barefoot most of the time. I guess that makes me a Satanist someone who lives in a warm climate.

/I miss going barefoot all the time.


Take your shoes off.

Now.
 
2012-12-11 04:50:50 PM

CheekyMonkey: In some cultures, burping after a meal is a sign of respect for the chef, in others, it's considered vulgar. Is either interpretation empirically correct? No.


Where does cropdusting fit in with this? Is there a culture where that is considered a stellar endorsement? Or is that too subtle and stealthy? Any cultures where a three alarm paint peeler is considered to say "My compliments to the chef!"?
 
2012-12-11 04:53:03 PM

PsiChick: BigNumber12: A furious Mr Ahmadinejad returned the gesture and also crossed his legs 'in response to the impoliteness of his interlocutor', as the Iranian news agency Asiran put it.


Dear Sweden,

This is the sort of "tolerance" that you're falling all over yourself to tolerate. Enjoy.

Love,

Realistic People

Erm, no. The ambassador accidentally flipped him off, which is actually an insult because it's like saying 'yeah, I didn't read my briefing on you guys and thus don't know something that children in your country know, even though that's my job'. So the guy flipped him off back. Which I find totally appropriate.

If this were an average citizen, I'd get the laughter, but this guy's job is to know this shiat. That makes this offensive. Imagine if your IT guy didn't know what a keyboard was, or your plumber didn't have a wrench.


Maybe one of his balls was being pinched and he had to cross his legs to relieve the pain.
Disclaimer: I don't have balls, but I could see that happening.
 
2012-12-11 05:03:16 PM
May I assume that Swedish diplomats also get their jobs through campaign donations instead of cultural competence and diplomacy?
 
2012-12-11 05:04:46 PM
This is why, in order to not offend anyone anywhere, I always sit with my legs splayed as wide as possible.

As Wide As Possible
 
2012-12-11 05:04:55 PM

Two16: sprawl15: CheekyMonkey: sprawl15: whidbey: We reconstructed Japan and Germany after a war.

This.

We didn't build the nation, we reconstructed it. HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

I'm sure you fancy yourself quite a witty chap, but to the rest of the world, the fact that you can't even be bothered to learn the terminology of world history & politics makes you sound like a dunce. You are akin to a Creationist who doesn't even understand what a scientific theory or the Scientific Sethod is, but insists that Intelligent Design is science.

ID is far more scientific than that idolatrous worship of Darwin's corpse. It tries to find out how and why God did a bunch of interesting and beautiful things while neo-Darwinists just say CHANCE DID IT LOL.

You know how I know you don't understand the scientific method?


I understand it just fine. Notice that you just result to silly personal attacks instead of addressing the points. It's just like a neo-Darwinist to poison the well before any attempt at rational discussion with them.
 
2012-12-11 05:10:09 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
Did he wiggle his big toe?
 
2012-12-11 05:10:15 PM
Not playing devil's advocate here, but giving you a bit of perspective on this...

I work for a global corporation. Prior to traveling internationally we are expected to meet with "Cross Cultural Analysts" who give us a list of dos and don'ts, and make sure we're up to speed. Also, if you recall, this was a big deal with Rumsfeld met with Saddham back in the 70's.

Diplomat should have known better, but Iranians should have politely told him not to do that.
 
2012-12-11 05:11:01 PM
I'm annoyed as the next person when it comes to nitpicking about trivial things, but this is a huge cultural faux-pas, one of the worst possible things you can do in a Muslim country. And the fact that it was a diplomat who did it is really inexcusable.

/grew up in the Middle East
//dad was a diplomat
///they had to recall one diplomat when they discovered that his last name meant "fart" in the local vernacular
 
2012-12-11 05:12:55 PM

dabbletech: cryinoutloud: Mega Steve: I walk barefoot most of the time. I guess that makes me a Satanist someone who lives in a warm climate.
/I miss going barefoot all the time.
Take your shoes off.
Now.


No thank you. It's 50 degrees in here. I'm sitting under a blanket. I need to go out in the warm room.

/where it's 55.
 
2012-12-11 05:21:53 PM

whidbey: BigNumber12: WhoGAS: We're no better.

This is their chief political leader and highest-ranking diplomat. It's quite indicative of their government's current mindset that he expects the rest of the world to accommodate their every last cultural superstition.

If we're "no better," can you find an example of our Head of State doing the equivalent of this, rather than nonspecific generalizations about soccer moms and pop stars?

Keep playing that ugly American. I'm sure it's going to score as "better" than those [insert racial slur geared towards Iranians.]


Aren't Iranians Aryans, like the plurality of Americans?
 
2012-12-11 05:22:52 PM

FTDA: H31N0US: Who doesn't know that exposing the soles of your feet is considered an insult in most of the Muslim world?

That, and the article got it wrong. I was told in my deployment briefing it meant you thought the person was lower than the shiat you walk on.


Same here.

/Would see many an Iraqi male cross his legs and point the sole of his sandal at us when we came down the street.
//Had to speak to a couple of my boys, they would flash gang signs back if they thought I wasn't looking.
///"He was dissin' us Jefe!"
 
2012-12-11 05:23:48 PM

whidbey: BigNumber12: whidbey: I don't see any ideas worth refuting.

Since your reading comprehension seems to be lacking, I'll repeat myself.

1) This guy is their chief diplomat. Why is it unreasonable to expect him to realize that the particular superstition that has upset him is held by a minority of the world's population, and the person he's speaking to is probably unaware of breaching it? Should we be thrilled that their chief diplomat is playing "insult swap" with someone who's completely unaware that they're even playing?

2) Give me an example of our Head of State doing the equivalent of this.


That's it. If you're so obviously justified, responding without namecalling should be simple for you.

Sorry, just don't care for your attitude. So you don't care for this particular insult.

Stop being a jackass about it. You sound like some Republican threatening to bomb Iran into being a democratic nation we can control.


Whidbey's debate tactics

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 05:26:35 PM
"The action goes against the custom of some Muslim countries, which considers shoes unclean because they are 'closer to the ground, closer to the devil and farther away from God'."

So, the devil is down? These people realize the earth is a sphere and down for you is up for somebody else, right?

I mean, this is really basic stuff here, and they can't even make taboo traditions based on even a hint of reality.
 
2012-12-11 05:27:32 PM

whidbey: BigNumber12: The action goes against the custom of some Muslim countries, which considers shoes unclean because they are 'closer to the ground, closer to the devil and farther away from God'.


Grow the fark up, you children.


Yes, they're not people, they're "children" to you. How enlightened of you. This is why nationbuilding fails, BTW.


Oh, so children are not people now?! What a bastard!
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-12-11 05:29:53 PM

meanmutton: Okay, I'm thinking -- what could possibly be similar in our culture? Accidentally using the N-word to refer to President Obama? Using the middle finger to point to the ceiling or something? Talking with food in his mouth? Slapping Secretary Clinton on the ass?


Bleah, then you may as well cut off that hand since it is irreversibly filthed.
 
2012-12-11 05:34:56 PM
Being a troll on FARK.iran must not be challenging at all.
 
2012-12-11 05:46:40 PM
A furious Mr Ahmadinejad returned the gesture...

Yeah, he LOOKS totally pissed...

/Whatever
 
2012-12-11 05:47:43 PM

heavymetal: Being a troll on FARK.iran must not be challenging at all.


Your mother showed me her ankle.
 
2012-12-11 05:52:39 PM

ScreamingHangover: heavymetal: Being a troll on FARK.iran must not be challenging at all.

Your mother showed me her ankle.


Infidedl!
 
2012-12-11 06:16:01 PM
The sole of the foot's supposed to be aimed at the guy you're insulting. I think Ahmadinnerjacket hates photographers more than flippant Swedes.
 
2012-12-11 06:25:01 PM
The action goes against the custom of some Muslim countries, which considers shoes unclean because they are 'closer to the ground, closer to the devil and farther away from God'.

I never understood this, seeing as those same countries drop to the ground 6 times a day, putting their face right on the ground, to pray.

ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-11 06:28:30 PM

ReapTheChaos: I never understood this, seeing as those same countries drop to the ground 6 times a day, putting their face right on the ground, to pray.


Not to mention, look at all of those soles right in each others faces.
 
2012-12-11 06:35:19 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: [img717.imageshack.us image 600x800]

I cant hang out with anyone who sees this as offensive.


Wouldn't you prefer her legs be open?
 
2012-12-11 06:53:57 PM
Funniest part is how offended some people are at someone being offended by something that isn't offensive according the to previously offended.
 
2012-12-11 06:57:13 PM

H31N0US: Who doesn't know that exposing the soles of your feet is considered an insult in most of the Muslim world?


I see souls of feet when they are praying all the time. Are their prayers intended to be insulting?
 
2012-12-11 06:57:38 PM

tinyarena: [i2.wp.com image 408x258]

Non-story
Tejler crossed his legs, by mistake, oops
Then Ahmadinejad crossed his legs too

This is a way of covering an impolite gesture, by copying it.
It's a way of saying, "No big deal."

I'm not crazy about Iran, but Ahmadinejad did the diplomatically correct thing.

/is Benghazi a scandal yet?


I would like people to consider this,
as well as what slant the propagandist news outlets in Iran may have twisted it from what it actually probably was

also, just by chance I did happen to hear about the shoe-sole-showing taboo before this incident, I don't think it's too obscure even if you only have a little curiosity about Persian culture
 
2012-12-11 07:05:48 PM
Lots of interesting alleged cultural taboos. Don't give a man from China a clock for a gift either.
 
2012-12-11 07:06:35 PM

Gough: The article is British, and they were the ones who got all bend out of shape when the US Ambassador was presented "at court" wearing long pants instead of the traditional silk breeches (=knickers in the US).


no body calls anything knickers here,
do you mean shorts or something?
 
2012-12-11 07:07:50 PM
Crossing your legs is a sign of familiarity and is informal. It's casual, not dignified. Improper and unseemly. It's that way in your own culture too but you too ignant to know that.
 
2012-12-11 07:11:53 PM
Same as crossing your arms. Rude body language.

/enjoying all the knee-jerking
 
2012-12-11 07:15:58 PM

armoredbulldozer: Lots of interesting alleged cultural taboos. Don't give a man from China a clock for a gift either.


Or a green hat.
 
2012-12-11 07:18:07 PM
Those crazy foreigners and their crazy customs! Bottoms of feet are only insulting to immature idiots. Single, raised fingers however...
 
2012-12-11 07:35:26 PM
The fact that Ahmadinejad pointed his foot away when he crossed his leg suggests that he was aware that the Swedish dude didn't know any better and was demonstrating that he didn't take offense. But go ahead and continue with the anti-Iranian, anti-Muslim sentiment.

In any case, the Swedish diplomat really should have known better, showing the bottoms of your feet is insulting in so many places in the world that it's usually better to be safe than sorry and someone who's a professional diplomat should know that. It's just as offensive and insulting in a number of non-Muslim countries, including Thailand, and it's bad form to not be careful about it. That's basic etiquette.
 
2012-12-11 07:36:53 PM

Abuse Liability: Also, your definition of nation building seems to be one I'm unfamiliar with as there doesn't appear to be a prerequisite for being attacked and/or attacking.


Until you're ready to pull the trigger on killing enough of a single generation of a nation, you can't engage in "nation building". You have to go to the extent we did in WWII, up to and including destroying whole cities repeatedly.

Only then can you break a culture enough to do this "nation building" thing.

I once heard it said you had to kill at least ten to fifteen percent of the men between 18 and 30. I would agree.
 
2012-12-11 07:40:24 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: ReapTheChaos: I never understood this, seeing as those same countries drop to the ground 6 times a day, putting their face right on the ground, to pray.

Not to mention, look at all of those soles right in each others faces.


Um yeah, wait... how the fark does this custom work?
 
2012-12-11 07:44:30 PM

CheekyMonkey: Culture isn't stupid, it's COMPLETELY arbitrary. In some cultures, burping after a meal is a sign of respect for the chef, in others, it's considered vulgar. Is either interpretation empirically correct? No


So you would never say it is "correct" to treat women as equals?

You wold never say it is incorrect to treat women as chattel and never allow them to show their face in public.

YOu would say the differences between countries that do and do not do that are "arbitrary"?

ReapTheChaos: The action goes against the custom of some Muslim countries, which considers shoes unclean because they are 'closer to the ground, closer to the devil and farther away from God'.

I never understood this, seeing as those same countries drop to the ground 6 times a day, putting their face right on the ground, to pray.

[ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com image 600x400]


I love how they are all pointing their feet at the guy behind them.

Or if Iran treats this anything like they did when I was in Egypt it was something rube would get butthurt about yet ignore it from their own.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:42 PM

rynthetyn: The fact that Ahmadinejad pointed his foot away when he crossed his leg suggests that he was aware that the Swedish dude didn't know any better and was demonstrating that he didn't take offense. But go ahead and continue with the anti-Iranian, anti-Muslim sentiment.

In any case, the Swedish diplomat really should have known better, showing the bottoms of your feet is insulting in so many places in the world that it's usually better to be safe than sorry and someone who's a professional diplomat should know that. It's just as offensive and insulting in a number of non-Muslim countries, including Thailand, and it's bad form to not be careful about it. That's basic etiquette.


Of course, it's only insulting if you let it insult you. Maybe humanity could grow up, develop thicker skin, and stop finding things to be offended at.
 
2012-12-11 07:54:26 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Of course, it's only insulting if you let it insult you. Maybe humanity could grow up, develop thicker skin, and stop finding things to be offended at.


Is this where we get to gore your sacred cow?
 
2012-12-11 07:56:53 PM

BigNumber12: armoredbulldozer: Lots of interesting alleged cultural taboos. Don't give a man from China a clock for a gift either.

Or a green hat.


Link

The following items are to be avoided as they are associated with funerals: Straw sandals, clocks, handkerchiefs, four of any item [the Cantonese word for "four" sounds similar, in the same language, to "death"], gifts or wrapping paper in white, black, or blue.
 
2012-12-11 07:58:35 PM

Cyclometh: Abuse Liability: Also, your definition of nation building seems to be one I'm unfamiliar with as there doesn't appear to be a prerequisite for being attacked and/or attacking.

Until you're ready to pull the trigger on killing enough of a single generation of a nation, you can't engage in "nation building". You have to go to the extent we did in WWII, up to and including destroying whole cities repeatedly.

Only then can you break a culture enough to do this "nation building" thing.

I once heard it said you had to kill at least ten to fifteen percent of the men between 18 and 30. I would agree.


And even then, that's no guarantee that you'll be able to pull off nation building. I don't think that the US could have done it successfully in Vietnam without committing full-scale genocide.
 
2012-12-11 07:59:02 PM

BigNumber12: whidbey: BigNumber12: ...aaaaaand "the type" is so afraid of someone out there in the world calling them a bigot that they go to great lengths and practice spectacular mental gymnastics to avoid being seen as even remotely critical of someone else's culture.

You two should go have coffee together and discuss the upcoming nationbuilding.




I really don't know why I bother. Refute something I said. Anything. Until then, later.


Don't bother is right....whidbey is famous for claiming that opposition to Obama's healthcare policy is racist, but he offers no proof. It's very childish.
 
2012-12-11 08:02:59 PM

Cyclometh: Keizer_Ghidorah: Of course, it's only insulting if you let it insult you. Maybe humanity could grow up, develop thicker skin, and stop finding things to be offended at.

Is this where we get to gore your sacred cow?


Hell, go ahead and make some steaks, tri-tips, and hamburger out of my sacred cow. I'll get the seasoning salt and ketchup.
 
2012-12-11 08:23:32 PM
The Swedish Ambassador folks. Come on. Get with the game.

www.geekologie.com
 
2012-12-11 08:25:19 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: rynthetyn: The fact that Ahmadinejad pointed his foot away when he crossed his leg suggests that he was aware that the Swedish dude didn't know any better and was demonstrating that he didn't take offense. But go ahead and continue with the anti-Iranian, anti-Muslim sentiment.

In any case, the Swedish diplomat really should have known better, showing the bottoms of your feet is insulting in so many places in the world that it's usually better to be safe than sorry and someone who's a professional diplomat should know that. It's just as offensive and insulting in a number of non-Muslim countries, including Thailand, and it's bad form to not be careful about it. That's basic etiquette.

Of course, it's only insulting if you let it insult you. Maybe humanity could grow up, develop thicker skin, and stop finding things to be offended at.


Because you never ever get offended by people doing things that are considered rude in America.
 
2012-12-11 08:29:22 PM

More_Like_A_Stain: ReapTheChaos: I never understood this, seeing as those same countries drop to the ground 6 times a day, putting their face right on the ground, to pray.

Not to mention, look at all of those soles right in each others faces.


More_Like_A_Stain: ReapTheChaos: I never understood this, seeing as those same countries drop to the ground 6 times a day, putting their face right on the ground, to pray.

Not to mention, look at all of those soles right in each others faces.


Not to mention, DAT ASS!
 
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