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(Talking Points Memo)   A handy guide that will help you descend into the madness surrounding the fiscal cliff   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 93
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2070 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 08:00:56 AM
Jump, farkers.
 
2012-12-11 08:06:55 AM
dissent.... it's the highest form of patriotic.
 
2012-12-11 08:17:48 AM
All you need to know is that whatever they do, it won't work. They may be able to push it into the future a bit more, but we'll be having this exact same problem next year, and the next, and the next, until the only solution is to print money until it's not worth the paper it's printed on.
 
2012-12-11 08:23:45 AM
Oh, a TPM link.

Obama will balance the budget, cure AIDS, create free non-poluting energy and bring peace to the world and all we have to do is raise taxes so that Billionaires pay 12 cents a year more than they do now.
 
2012-12-11 09:02:29 AM
Foremost, they've now agreed to raise taxes on the wealthy, thus abandoning their No. 1 talking point that taxes can never go up

Umm.... no.

They've agreed to let tax rates return to what they used to be before the ill-advised BushCo tax cuts.

A return to previous levels is not "taxes going up" it's "taxes going back up". A subtle but important distinction.

If the GOP really agreed on raising taxes they'd agree to marginal tax rate hikes and they so far they are not doing so.

Obama insists that marginal rates must rise, while Republicans insist that they must not.

See?
 
2012-12-11 09:24:20 AM

Elvis_Bogart: Oh, a TPM link.

Obama will balance the budget, cure AIDS, create free non-poluting energy and bring peace to the world and all we have to do is raise taxes so that Billionaires pay 12 cents a year more than they do now.


Shouldn't you be out on American "Thinker" right about now?
 
2012-12-11 10:12:02 AM

silo123j: dissent.... it's the highest form of patriotic.


Descent is the highest form of patriotic silly.
 
2012-12-11 10:50:08 AM
Not all that confusing. Sequestration would hurt some, but if we had 2 parties interested in the well-being of the nation, this wouldn't be a problem.
 
2012-12-11 10:55:41 AM

silo123j: dissent mindless obstruction.... it's the highest form of patriotic.



FTFY
 
2012-12-11 10:57:23 AM

Alphax: Not all that confusing. Sequestration would hurt some, but if we had 2 parties interested in the well-being of the nation, this wouldn't be a problem.


If we had 2 parties interested in the well-being of the nation, sequestration would never have been an issue in the first place as there would have been no manufactured debt ceiling "crisis".
 
2012-12-11 10:58:13 AM
Obama wants to renew the payroll tax holiday for another year - or replace it with a similar, largely equivalent tax credit. He wants to extend emergency unemployment benefits. He wants $50 billion in additional stimulus spending.

Fark this diddly little shiat. Extending the unemployment benefits is how Obama 'justified' two more years of 1%-er Bush tax rape. Pay the f*ckin bills even if everybody has to bleed.
 
2012-12-11 10:59:45 AM
An even handier guide:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-11 11:01:00 AM

Elvis_Bogart: Oh, a TPM link.

Obama will balance the budget, cure AIDS, create free non-poluting energy and bring peace to the world and all we have to do is raise taxes so that Billionaires pay 12 cents a year more than they do now.


Gerp, librul media, derp.

DrPainMD: All you need to know is that whatever they do, it won't work. They may be able to push it into the future a bit more, but we'll be having this exact same problem next year, and the next, and the next, until the only solution is to print money until it's not worth the paper it's printed on.


Herp, buy gold, derp.

That covered the token right wing perspective. What's next? Brunch?
 
2012-12-11 11:02:44 AM
Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".
 
2012-12-11 11:05:01 AM

Elvis_Bogart: Oh, a TPM link.

Obama will balance the budget, cure AIDS, create free non-poluting energy and bring peace to the world and all we have to do is raise taxes so that Billionaires pay 12 cents a year more than they do now.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-11 11:05:07 AM

TheOther: Obama wants to renew the payroll tax holiday for another year - or replace it with a similar, largely equivalent tax credit. He wants to extend emergency unemployment benefits. He wants $50 billion in additional stimulus spending.

Fark this diddly little shiat. Extending the unemployment benefits is how Obama 'justified' two more years of 1%-er Bush tax rape. Pay the f*ckin bills even if everybody has to bleed.


Exactly.
 
2012-12-11 11:14:50 AM
Link gives zero information on Capital Gains and Dividend rates.
 
2012-12-11 11:15:00 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".


"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.
 
2012-12-11 11:16:51 AM
does anyone have a pointer to the amount of deficit that can be offset by all the solutions on the table.

I've heard taxing 2%ers gets about 10% of the deficit.

that seems reasonable (and, btw seems like the "1 in 10" taxes to spending cuts deal the republicans balked at in their primary).

There is some percentage that can be knocked away by removing tax loop holes -- which are they talking about and what percentages do they offer.

There are some associated with cutting entitlements, raising the retirement age, means testing -- what are the current big ones on the table and what offset do they offer?

There are other pieces of the federal pie (defense) what are currently on the table and what could they bring.

Is there an article or website that spells this all out?
 
2012-12-11 11:19:49 AM
But he'll come up quite a bit short of the "big deal" he wants unless he gives Republicans concessions that progressives will hate. And they're already gearing up to convince Democrats in Congress to block him if that's the course he chooses to pursue.

Obama won, get over it.
 
2012-12-11 11:21:27 AM

TheOther: Obama wants to renew the payroll tax holiday for another year - or replace it with a similar, largely equivalent tax credit. He wants to extend emergency unemployment benefits. He wants $50 billion in additional stimulus spending.

Fark this diddly little shiat. Extending the unemployment benefits is how Obama 'justified' two more years of 1%-er Bush tax rape. Pay the f*ckin bills even if everybody has to bleed.


Well considering that interest rates the US government can borrow money at are below inflation nobody has to bleed to pay the bills. If the Republitards would just be reasonable and abandon the debt limit the US government could not only pay the bills this year, but borrow money in excess of what it needs at these ridiculously low interest rates, purchase older debt that have high interest rates then the current debt. Thereby lowering the interest payments on the debt and reducing the deficit.

A new round of stimulus spending targeted at the poor to create demand, instead of banks and financial institutions, would create a great deal of growth. Firms and business owners are saying that the reason they are not hiring is there is no demand in the market. Creating demand will create jobs, creating jobs will create growth, growing the GDP will increase tax revenue, decrease the deficit as a percentage of revenue and help the US out of this hole.

Sadly the Republitards have this idea that Keynesian economics are wrong, when the reality of 2008 taught us that we are all Keynesian. There is no other choice where Macro economics and government is concerned.
 
2012-12-11 11:22:49 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.


Call it pound of flesh if you want. He's insisted he won't negotiate on the top rates, which presumably means he wont extend cuts for the 98% if he has to extend for the 2% as well, even though he has stated that he wants the lower rates for the 98% to continue.

What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone? Let tax rates go up or everyone, as scheduled, or give in?
 
2012-12-11 11:24:05 AM
Not this shiat again
 
2012-12-11 11:25:00 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?


A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.
 
2012-12-11 11:29:31 AM

Slaves2Darkness: TheOther: Obama wants to renew the payroll tax holiday for another year - or replace it with a similar, largely equivalent tax credit. He wants to extend emergency unemployment benefits. He wants $50 billion in additional stimulus spending.

Fark this diddly little shiat. Extending the unemployment benefits is how Obama 'justified' two more years of 1%-er Bush tax rape. Pay the f*ckin bills even if everybody has to bleed.

Well considering that interest rates the US government can borrow money at are below inflation nobody has to bleed to pay the bills. If the Republitards would just be reasonable and abandon the debt limit the US government could not only pay the bills this year, but borrow money in excess of what it needs at these ridiculously low interest rates, purchase older debt that have high interest rates then the current debt. Thereby lowering the interest payments on the debt and reducing the deficit.

A new round of stimulus spending targeted at the poor to create demand, instead of banks and financial institutions, would create a great deal of growth. Firms and business owners are saying that the reason they are not hiring is there is no demand in the market. Creating demand will create jobs, creating jobs will create growth, growing the GDP will increase tax revenue, decrease the deficit as a percentage of revenue and help the US out of this hole.

Sadly the Republitards have this idea that Keynesian economics are wrong, when the reality of 2008 taught us that we are all Keynesian. There is no other choice where Macro economics and government is concerned.


You have no idea what you are talking about. The treasury cant call its outstanding obligations at par. If it were to repurchase old debt on which there is a higher coupon, they would have to pay a premium in the market (because the bonds have a higher rate than current rates, they are more valuable), offsetting all benefit of the lower coupon of newly issued debt.
 
2012-12-11 11:29:39 AM
m-m-m-m-m-mad-mad-mad
m-m-m-m-m-mad-mad-mad

madness
 
2012-12-11 11:29:45 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.

Call it pound of flesh if you want. He's insisted he won't negotiate on the top rates, which presumably means he wont extend cuts for the 98% if he has to extend for the 2% as well, even though he has stated that he wants the lower rates for the 98% to continue.

What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone? Let tax rates go up or everyone, as scheduled, or give in?


"Pound of Flesh"? Even better!

You really have no idea how silly you sound. You truly are the most loyal serf in the manor.
 
2012-12-11 11:30:13 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.


Why do you think you deserve 3 tax cuts then when one should suffice for everyone?

/guessing you are in the 3rd bracket.
 
2012-12-11 11:31:07 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.

Call it pound of flesh if you want. He's insisted he won't negotiate on the top rates, which presumably means he wont extend cuts for the 98% if he has to extend for the 2% as well, even though he has stated that he wants the lower rates for the 98% to continue.

What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone? Let tax rates go up or everyone, as scheduled, or give in?

"Pound of Flesh"? Even better!

You really have no idea how silly you sound. You truly are the most loyal serf in the manor.


He's a Very Serious PersonTM
 
2012-12-11 11:32:18 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.


Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?
 
2012-12-11 11:33:39 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.

Call it pound of flesh if you want. He's insisted he won't negotiate on the top rates, which presumably means he wont extend cuts for the 98% if he has to extend for the 2% as well, even though he has stated that he wants the lower rates for the 98% to continue.

What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone? Let tax rates go up or everyone, as scheduled, or give in?

"Pound of Flesh"? Even better!

You really have no idea how silly you sound. You truly are the most loyal serf in the manor.


Keep ducking the question. That way you never have to answer!!
 
2012-12-11 11:34:05 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?


Tell them to go f*ck themselves, put through a bill with the 98% tax cut unattached to anything else, watch the GOP vote it down or filibuster it and then take that message to the public for 2014. Funny fact: top 2% control a lot of money but still only 2% of the vote.
 
2012-12-11 11:35:35 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?


Let them go up for everyone. The Treasury can delay the rates going up immediately on the middle class in the new year. Have the Senate pass a permanent extension for under $250K (they already have actually) and put the House GOP in the position of denying a tax cut for 98% of Americans, denying their entire philosophy for the last three decades.

Saiga410: Why do you think you deserve 3 tax cuts then when one should suffice for everyone?


Not sure what you're talking about.
 
2012-12-11 11:36:21 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.

Call it pound of flesh if you want. He's insisted he won't negotiate on the top rates, which presumably means he wont extend cuts for the 98% if he has to extend for the 2% as well, even though he has stated that he wants the lower rates for the 98% to continue.

What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone? Let tax rates go up or everyone, as scheduled, or give in?

"Pound of Flesh"? Even better!

You really have no idea how silly you sound. You truly are the most loyal serf in the manor.

Keep ducking the question. That way you never have to answer!!


Why don't you question why the Republicans would be willing to see tax rates go up on all rather than see them go up only on the wealthy? Why not ask about their Ransom demands for a pound of flesh?
 
2012-12-11 11:36:40 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?


Let all the taxes go up and instruct the IRS to withhold less tax on income lower than $250K until 2014. Pass tax cuts for the less than $250K with a DNC Congress.
 
2012-12-11 11:43:02 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

"Ransom"? Seriously? I know that you worship the wealthy as semi-divine beings, but that's ridiculous even for you.

Call it pound of flesh if you want. He's insisted he won't negotiate on the top rates, which presumably means he wont extend cuts for the 98% if he has to extend for the 2% as well, even though he has stated that he wants the lower rates for the 98% to continue.

What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone? Let tax rates go up or everyone, as scheduled, or give in?

"Pound of Flesh"? Even better!

You really have no idea how silly you sound. You truly are the most loyal serf in the manor.

Keep ducking the question. That way you never have to answer!!

Why don't you question why the Republicans would be willing to see tax rates go up on all rather than see them go up only on the wealthy? Why not ask about their Ransom demands for a pound of flesh?


They just want the tax rates to remain what they are today. Presumably, if you truly believe that the expiration of the cuts for the 98%, as well as the sequestration etc, would be very bad for the already weak economy, you wouldn't object to an extension. The cost of the full extension is only 20% more than the cost of the extension you want, would be readily agreeable to the other side, and would eliminate all the confidence issues associated with the big bad fiscal cliff.

It's the dems that want a special deal... They don't want cuts to expire as scheduled, and they dont want cuts extended for all. Rather, they want some cuts extended.
 
2012-12-11 11:43:28 AM

mrshowrules: Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?

Let all the taxes go up and instruct the IRS to withhold less tax on income lower than $250K until 2014. Pass tax cuts for the less than $250K with a DNC Congress.


And when I file at the end of 2013?
 
2012-12-11 11:45:59 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: The cost of the full extension is only 20% more than the cost of the extension you want


We should spend 20% more to benefit 2% of people? No.
 
2012-12-11 11:47:48 AM

qorkfiend: We should spend 20% more to benefit 2% of people? No.


Won't someone think of the Romneys?
 
2012-12-11 11:48:05 AM

mrshowrules: Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?

Let all the taxes go up and instruct the IRS to withhold less tax on income lower than $250K until 2014. Pass tax cuts for the less than $250K with a DNC Congress.


Interesting. Is that legal? Could it be done by executive authority only or would it require congressional approval?

You could lower withholding requirements, but people filing their 2013 tax returns would have to pay in April 2014 what wasn't paid in 2013.

Also, you are placing alot of eggs in the basket of a dem congress and filibuster proof senate, in addition to setting a dangerous precedent. What's to stop future anti-tax GOP presidents from just telling the IRS not to bother collecting taxes?
 
2012-12-11 11:48:13 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: They just want the tax rates to remain what they are today. Presumably, if you truly believe that the expiration of the cuts for the 98%, as well as the sequestration etc, would be very bad for the already weak economy, you wouldn't object to an extension. The cost of the full extension is only 20% more than the cost of the extension you want, would be readily agreeable to the other side, and would eliminate all the confidence issues associated with the big bad fiscal cliff.

It's the dems that want a special deal... They don't want cuts to expire as scheduled, and they dont want cuts extended for all. Rather, they want some cuts extended.


Do they want spending to remain where it is today?
 
2012-12-11 11:49:39 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".


Derp derp
 
2012-12-11 11:51:18 AM

CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?

Tell them to go f*ck themselves, put through a bill with the 98% tax cut unattached to anything else, watch the GOP vote it down or filibuster it and then take that message to the public for 2014. Funny fact: top 2% control a lot of money but still only 2% of the vote.


What if the GOP continues to not bring up the dem proposal for vote, but rather passes an extension for all, putting the dem senate in the position of not extending tax cuts?

If the GOP doesn't budge, what should the dems do? Let rates rise for all, accept all the supposedly negative short term economic implications and hope to retake the house in '14, or give in?
 
2012-12-11 11:52:34 AM

Smackledorfer: Debeo Summa Credo: Is Obama willing to let everyone's taxes rise if he doesn't get his ransom from the rich? I hope so.

Extending the tax cuts for the 98% would be over four and a half times as expensive as extending the cuts for the rich, which Obama says we "can't afford".

Derp derp


Another fact-hating farklib.
 
2012-12-11 11:53:57 AM

qorkfiend: Debeo Summa Credo: The cost of the full extension is only 20% more than the cost of the extension you want

We should spend 20% more to benefit 2% of people? No.


So your vote is let all the cuts expire rather than spend 20% more?
 
2012-12-11 11:55:16 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?

Tell them to go f*ck themselves, put through a bill with the 98% tax cut unattached to anything else, watch the GOP vote it down or filibuster it and then take that message to the public for 2014. Funny fact: top 2% control a lot of money but still only 2% of the vote.

What if the GOP continues to not bring up the dem proposal for vote, but rather passes an extension for all, putting the dem senate in the position of not extending tax cuts?

If the GOP doesn't budge, what should the dems do? Let rates rise for all, accept all the supposedly negative short term economic implications and hope to retake the house in '14, or give in?


Like I said, let them expire, submit the cuts minus the top 2%, and hold the GOP's feet to the fire no matter what they do. If they approve it, great. If not, hello 2014. I'm sure the American people will really appreciate a tax hike because the GOP insisted on extending tax breaks for the job creators.
 
2012-12-11 11:56:33 AM

DrPainMD: All you need to know is that whatever they do, it won't work. They may be able to push it into the future a bit more, but we'll be having this exact same problem next year, and the next, and the next, until the only solution is to print money until it's not worth the paper it's printed on.


Best lay in another hundred cases of Ramen just to safe.
 
2012-12-11 11:58:32 AM
Just to reiterate: A very small portion of the population have earned incomes much over $250k. We're talking about senior doctors, lawyers and a few small business owners.

The incomes of the wealthy are almost all in Capital Gains and Dividend, currently taxed at 15% regardless of how much you earn.

All this focus on a few percent increase on a small portion of incomes earned by a small portion of the country is a dog and pony show. The real issue and real money are in Dividend and Capital Gains rates, which everyone is furiously ignoring.
 
2012-12-11 11:59:27 AM
Don't you know the tax rate Is going up, up, up, up, up
To live in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough
My tax cut, it's been shattered.
Shadoobie, shattered, shattered
 
2012-12-11 11:59:36 AM

CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: Dusk-You-n-Me: Debeo Summa Credo: What should he do, in your opinion, if the GOP doesnt accede to his demands, and continues to insist that lower rates should be extended for everyone?

A tax cut for the 98% is a tax cut for the 2%. Obama doesn't think the 2% should get an extra tax cut.

Sigh. What should Obama do if the GOP insists that the cuts should be extended for all levels, not only the first $250k of earnings? Should he let everyone's taxes go up, or give in?

Tell them to go f*ck themselves, put through a bill with the 98% tax cut unattached to anything else, watch the GOP vote it down or filibuster it and then take that message to the public for 2014. Funny fact: top 2% control a lot of money but still only 2% of the vote.

What if the GOP continues to not bring up the dem proposal for vote, but rather passes an extension for all, putting the dem senate in the position of not extending tax cuts?

If the GOP doesn't budge, what should the dems do? Let rates rise for all, accept all the supposedly negative short term economic implications and hope to retake the house in '14, or give in?

Like I said, let them expire, submit the cuts minus the top 2%, and hold the GOP's feet to the fire no matter what they do. If they approve it, great. If not, hello 2014. I'm sure the American people will really appreciate a tax hike because the GOP insisted on extending tax breaks for the job creators.


So you're okay with paying more yourself (assuming you pay taxes), as well as the negative short term implications of the tax hikes/sequestration that are supposedly going to result, as long as your side can gain politically in 2 years?

Tell me, does the economic or fiscal health of the nation mean anything to you, or is it team first all the time?
 
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