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(Entertainment Weekly)   AFI decrees The Dark Knight Rises and The Walking Dead as worthy of preservation   (insidemovies.ew.com) divider line 80
    More: Cool, AFI, TDKR, film institutes, Les Miserables, Argo, Zero Dark Thirty, Academy Awards  
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2125 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Dec 2012 at 11:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 03:26:48 PM
I liked Dark Knight Rises, in many ways more than the Dark Knight. Better action sequences, better pacing, Bale dialed back the growling, and Michael Caine brought the house down.

Listening to farkers complain about it, I know my opinions are right.
 
2012-12-11 03:38:36 PM
The Dark Knight Rises is a solid movie from start to finish... The Dark Knight is a mediocre movie with a singular exceptional performance.
 
2012-12-11 03:48:08 PM

Ann Coulter's Diiick: Elzar: Seriously? The Walking Dead? What an epic piece of shiat Zombie sell-out show... they'd show more restraint to wait for the more realistic stylings of World War Z before passing such sweeping judgements.

notsureifserious.jpg

Walking Dead had some missteps when they got rid of Darabont and didn't know what to do, but this season is awesome. WWZ looks horrible.


What? No. Darabont was responsible for the shiatfest that was the first half of the 2nd season. It was when his influence left the show that the show became amazingly better. Granted, Darabont was constrained by AMC's budget cut, but let's not pretend Darabont had nothing to do with that drawn-out Sophia storyline - he was entirely responsible for that.
 
2012-12-11 03:48:57 PM

T.rex: The Dark Knight Rises is a solid movie from start to finish... The Dark Knight is a mediocre movie with a singular exceptional performance.


I assume you're referring to this guy.

content8.flixster.com
 
2012-12-11 03:53:24 PM

sure haven't: I saw TDKR in theatres, loved it. Re-watched TDK a month later, loved it more. And now just last weekend re-watched TDKR, and I'm so on the fence.

I think Bane was simply f*cking awesone. His voice, so menacing, is mannerisms, his politeness, etc. His crushing un-waverability, ruthlessness, etc. Everything about him is larger than life and just simply amazing. One of the best villains I've seen in years. Dare I say I liked him better than The Joker.

However there are SO many loopholes. Just so incredibly many. And they fell into the trap of making the main tough guy not look so tough, in order to make the NEW good guy look tough. AKA waif-ism. Performed by 105lbs soaking wet Anne Hathaway (I know, I must be a sexist monster). That and he wasn't mysterious and in the shadows. Aside from his first appearance in the film, he was kinda terrible at being Batman.

But that aside, I still freakin love TDKR. I think Batman Begins is the best, but I just don't know which one I like better of the other two.


cdn01.cdn.justjared.com
Anne Hathaway?
 
2012-12-11 04:04:51 PM

sure haven't: soaking wet Anne Hathaway


I would get Anne Hathaway soaking wet, if ya know what I mean, and I think you do.

/yeah, biznatches, I'm back!
 
2012-12-11 04:12:17 PM

The Banana Thug: Anne Hathaway?


Um yes, Anne Hathaway.

Marion Cotillard did no fighting at all, save for stabbing Batman at the end.
Catwoman was who I was referring to. Cotillard's character was a businesswoman for 95% of the film.
 
2012-12-11 04:13:38 PM

sure haven't: Marion Cotillard did no fighting at all, save for stabbing Batman at the end.


I'd stab her in the end, if ya know what I mean, and I think you do.

/boom
 
2012-12-11 04:20:26 PM

sure haven't: The Banana Thug: Anne Hathaway?

Um yes, Anne Hathaway.

Marion Cotillard did no fighting at all, save for stabbing Batman at the end.
Catwoman was who I was referring to. Cotillard's character was a businesswoman for 95% of the film.


Okay I see what you're trying to say. I thought you meant how Cotillard's character **SPOILER** was the bigger, more central villain than Bane during the plot reveal (which is the main complaint that I have about the movie and somewhat parallels yours), but you specifically said "the NEW good guy."
 
2012-12-11 04:26:21 PM

The Banana Thug: Marion Cotillard


She could be Mila Kunis' sister. I would allow them to tagteam me.
 
2012-12-11 04:28:07 PM

devilEther: The Banana Thug: Marion Cotillard

She could be Mila Kunis' sister. I would allow them to tagteam me.


I would make an innuendo there, but I'm too busy...um...cleaning up, shall we say.
 
2012-12-11 04:34:12 PM

The Banana Thug: sure haven't: The Banana Thug: Anne Hathaway?

Um yes, Anne Hathaway.

Marion Cotillard did no fighting at all, save for stabbing Batman at the end.
Catwoman was who I was referring to. Cotillard's character was a businesswoman for 95% of the film.

Okay I see what you're trying to say. I thought you meant how Cotillard's character **SPOILER** was the bigger, more central villain than Bane during the plot reveal (which is the main complaint that I have about the movie and somewhat parallels yours), but you specifically said "the NEW good guy."


Ah I gotcha.

/that plot twist was retarded btw. It would've been better as a straight up story.
 
2012-12-11 04:41:51 PM

Wayne 985: Elzar: Seriously? The Walking Dead? What an epic piece of shiat Zombie sell-out show... they'd show more restraint to wait for the more realistic stylings of World War Z before passing such sweeping judgements.

stuhayes2010: Just watched Sark Knight Rises and I am disapoint. I loved the first two movies, but the third was just plain bad. Bane's voice was almost comical and the plot was boring.

Yes, yes, we get it. This sucks, that sucks, everything's lame. You folks liked zombies and Batman before they went mainstream and sold out, etc.


I really wanted to like TDKR but I just didn't. It's not because I think I'm cool and too awesome for it, I just couldn't get into Bane's silly voice, Batman's silly voice and the many many loopholes. Also the fact that Batman just acted irrational and dumb. He's so much smarter in the first two movies it doesn't make sense that his sole tactic in this is to just run and punch everything. When he's not acting stupid he's apparently psychic as when he returns to Gotham and magically saves everyone that needs saving at just the right moment.

Then you have a really interesting idea where Gotham is cut off from the world and all you do with it is have some mock trials and shove people on to the ice? What was everyone else doing in the city? Why are all the criminals fine with living on a death trap set to explode at any minute? Why are only the cops, who all stupidly walk into a tunnel together, the ones who fight back in the end? An entire city full of people and only the cops can defend themselves? And many many other things, not the least of which is the super loud score coupled with silly muffled voices means a lot of people miss half the dialogue.

I would have enjoyed it a little bit more if they had the balls to kill Batman in the end. But even then they cop out and have him magically appear in front of Alfred as a happy couple.

I love the first two movies, but this one just felt like one wasted opportunity after another, and I will never like the silly voices.
 
2012-12-11 05:08:28 PM
I really enjoyed TDKR, myself.

It wasn't perfect by any means, but I had quite a good time watching it.
 
2012-12-11 05:45:19 PM

sure haven't: /that plot twist was retarded btw. It would've been better as a straight up story.


I don't know how I feel about that. In some ways, I think keeping Bane as Ra's al Ghul's child would've been smoother, but it's not really accurate to the comics. I go back and forth.

dehehn: Why are all the criminals fine with living on a death trap set to explode at any minute? Why are only the cops, who all stupidly walk into a tunnel together, the ones who fight back in the end? An entire city full of people and only the cops can defend themselves?...


I'll just address these two points, since the rest is a matter of opinion. (Not that I'm trying to dismiss it, but arguing about our different taste won't go anywhere.)

The criminals were largely composed of the remnants of The League of Shadows, which is basically a cult. They're fine dying al Qaeda style (remember the plane scene at the beginning). The rest were mostly the prisoners he busted out who probably didn't know Bane was planning to detonate the bomb all along.

As for the citizens, a good chunk seemed to fall for Bane's story (that they were being "liberated" and everything was fine) or were simply incapable of forming a real resistance. The cops stand a better chance at staging a large scale fight than John and Jane Doe living down the street, especially when the bad guys are armed with assault rifles and the Wayne Tech arsenal.

Besides... cops vs. criminals in a final big scale battle makes for fun movie material. Don't take it too seriously.
 
2012-12-11 06:04:50 PM

Wayne 985: sure haven't: /that plot twist was retarded btw. It would've been better as a straight up story.

I don't know how I feel about that. In some ways, I think keeping Bane as Ra's al Ghul's child would've been smoother, but it's not really accurate to the comics. I go back and forth.

dehehn: Why are all the criminals fine with living on a death trap set to explode at any minute? Why are only the cops, who all stupidly walk into a tunnel together, the ones who fight back in the end? An entire city full of people and only the cops can defend themselves?...

I'll just address these two points, since the rest is a matter of opinion. (Not that I'm trying to dismiss it, but arguing about our different taste won't go anywhere.)

The criminals were largely composed of the remnants of The League of Shadows, which is basically a cult. They're fine dying al Qaeda style (remember the plane scene at the beginning). The rest were mostly the prisoners he busted out who probably didn't know Bane was planning to detonate the bomb all along.

As for the citizens, a good chunk seemed to fall for Bane's story (that they were being "liberated" and everything was fine) or were simply incapable of forming a real resistance. The cops stand a better chance at staging a large scale fight than John and Jane Doe living down the street, especially when the bad guys are armed with assault rifles and the Wayne Tech arsenal.

Besides... cops vs. criminals in a final big scale battle makes for fun movie material. Don't take it too seriously.


I thought TDKR was just not very good. Too long, predictable and full of holes. However I didn't really have a problem with Bane's voice, though it completely reeked of ADR. They probably needed to do a little something to blend it more with the rest of the audio.

The cops vs. criminals showdown could have been pretty awesome except for the fact that they completely ignore the artillery Bane's crew possesses. And the explanation behind escaping the pit was pretty weak. Overall it had some cool moments, but didn't really work as a whole.
 
2012-12-11 06:16:49 PM

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: ... the explanation behind escaping the pit was pretty weak...


How dare you... That was one of my favorite scenes. I'm not sure what happened to his leg brace (I guess Bane left it on him), but I thought that whole sequence was kind of inspiring. The dialogue, the climb itself, and the music all made it worthwhile.
 
2012-12-11 06:18:02 PM

sure haven't: I saw TDKR in theatres, loved it. Re-watched TDK a month later, loved it more. And now just last weekend re-watched TDKR, and I'm so on the fence.

I think Bane was simply f*cking awesone. His voice, so menacing, is mannerisms, his politeness, etc. His crushing un-waverability, ruthlessness, etc. Everything about him is larger than life and just simply amazing. One of the best villains I've seen in years. Dare I say I liked him better than The Joker.

However there are SO many loopholes. Just so incredibly many. And they fell into the trap of making the main tough guy not look so tough, in order to make the NEW good guy look tough. AKA waif-ism. Performed by 105lbs soaking wet Anne Hathaway (I know, I must be a sexist monster). That and he wasn't mysterious and in the shadows. Aside from his first appearance in the film, he was kinda terrible at being Batman.

But that aside, I still freakin love TDKR. I think Batman Begins is the best, but I just don't know which one I like better of the other two.


What really got me was the idea that a genius criminal mastermind would be the puppy-love protector rather than the badass they built him up to be. I will say though, Tom Hardy nailed that farking role. Even his fight sequences, the projected brutality fit the character.
 
2012-12-11 07:54:47 PM

Wayne 985: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: ... the explanation behind escaping the pit was pretty weak...

How dare you... That was one of my favorite scenes. I'm not sure what happened to his leg brace (I guess Bane left it on him), but I thought that whole sequence was kind of inspiring. The dialogue, the climb itself, and the music all made it worthwhile.


What bugs me is how the ledge Bruce leaps from has enough room to make a running start, but he chooses to stand on the edge and miss escaping by inches.
 
2012-12-11 08:02:18 PM
The biggest issue with TDKR is that it had no business being that frickin' long. The plot is very simple, despite the attempts to cloud it with the patented Nolan "twists". The bad guys have a plan to destroy the city, and the plan executes on a timer. The heroes must stop them. Basic action movie mechanics, but stretched out to 3 hours.

A few key flaws:
1) Batman starts the film broken, which doesn't fit with the arc of the story in the film. The whole thing is a descent into the underworld coupled with the return and rise to power. Starting from a position of weakness doesn't jive with that, especially when that weakness is basically ignored for the remainder of the film anyway.
2) John Blake had no purpose in the story. He did nothing to advance the core plot. He was a fun character, but he could have basically been ignored.
3) The prison Batman is thrown into doesn't seem terribly bad at all. They do nothing to establish the true darkness and evil of the place. We are told but not shown. As a result, his redemption and escape doesn't have the power it should have. He didn't survive the worst experience possible- he survived some bed rest and inconvenience.
4) The whole bit about the plague and the masks they wore was a pretty transparent excuse to hide Bane's face and try and conceal the "twist" that Talia was in the film, despite it being blatantly obvious that she was the prime mover (if you didn't figure that out by the time Bane killed Dagget, you're oblivious).
5) Not really a criticism, but I did find it funny how the cops looked like cops- which made their dramatic charge into city hall more hilarious than exciting. Look at them waddle!

Honestly, since Batman works in the shadows, there was no need for him to retire after TDK. His newfound villain status makes him more menacing to the criminal underworld. This would have given you a chance to have Batman (and Bruce) at the height of his power, dealing with the darkness of his persona interfering with his regular life. The whole idea that the Dent act magically fixed crime gets jettisoned. It helped, Dent's still a hero, but Batman still is needed to protect the streets. Establish quickly that his investments and businesses are failing, show that Bane is behind it. Make it gradual instead of a pointless action sequence that helps with nothing. Have Miranda come in and help him. That much can largely stay the same, but now you get to have Bane's breaking of the Bat carry more resonance- it's not a weakened, out-of-shape Batman he defeats. It's a strong veteran, full of cunning and experience.

Now show him give up in the Pit. Show him weakened, brought low, and linger on that. Mirror his decay with the decay of Gotham. Have him see Jim Gordon stand up to defend the city, and possibly die (leave some confusion, so you can bring him back for the final act). That galvanizes Batman. "Gotham just lost its only true hero," he says. Cue training montage.

For the final act, Batman returns to Gotham. He comes ready to kick ass, just as Voltan Bane screams out, "Gordon's ALIIIIIIIVVVVEEEE?" just as Gordon, crippled but with spirit unbroken, leads the revolt. Queue climactic battle for city hall, plus the car chase. The day is saved, Batman's name is cleared, this gives us no need for a contrived faked death.

Completely cut John Blake and Catwoman. Trim the whole thing down to about 2:10, maybe even 1:50. Boom, the movie is ten times better.
 
2012-12-11 08:04:08 PM

Sweet Chin Music: What bugs me is how the ledge Bruce leaps from has enough room to make a running start, but he chooses to stand on the edge and miss escaping by inches.


There was a lot of really bad blocking. And maybe it's just that I knew a lot of the locations they shot many of the action sequences at, but I felt that the action was badly edited and made it feel like they were teleporting around.
 
2012-12-11 08:39:59 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: AFI made nothing worth listening to after the All Hallows EP.

/dnrtfa
//wrong AFI, blah



The next two are ok... but I agree with that.
 
2012-12-11 09:11:48 PM

t3knomanser: 3) The prison Batman is thrown into doesn't seem terribly bad at all. They do nothing to establish the true darkness and evil of the place. We are told but not shown. As a result, his redemption and escape doesn't have the power it should have. He didn't survive the worst experience possible- he survived some bed rest and inconvenience.


Well, it's not supposed to be totally dark and evil, maybe. For one thing, it's "Bane's prison now" so we're probably supposed to feel a bit of pity for the poor bastards in it. Didn't Bruce toss down the rope after he got out? Apart from that It's supposed to represent the lowest time in a person's life where they feel utterly paralyzed and powerless to change things. Being crippled by Bane was his low point, there's no need to have him tortured randomly; a bunch of foreign thugs trying to rough Bruce up would have added nothing. Why isn't Luke fighting off giant swamp beasts on Dagobah?

Hey, how come Bruce's knees were so messed up? Is he weak?

He fell off of two buildings in The Dark Knight.

Hey, how did he get back into the City if the bridges were blown up and it was totally cut off, derp derr?

He farking bought some high-tech heated scuba gear and one of those little underwater thingies that propel you through the water. Then he entered the ocean from a few miles away and scuba'd in at night to a remote place. HE'S FARKING BATMAN!

Hey, how come a kid could make the jump so easily but large grown men couldn't?

Have you ever watched the Olympics and noticed that the best female gymnasts are about 14 years old? Kids are wirey.

Bane's death was totally weak!

Agreed. Why were we denied the shot of his mask being torn off and his scarred face gasping for air as he died slowly and horribly? Nolan, i am disappoint.
 
2012-12-11 09:30:21 PM

ELF Radio: Being crippled by Bane was his low point, there's no need to have him tortured randomly


But we don't really see that, do we? They establish the fact, they establish that time passes, and then they resolve it. I didn't get any sense of struggle, of suffering. Bane sent him there to suffer. I just didn't feel it. But that was broadly true of the film- I didn't feel any investment in anything that was going on.
 
2012-12-11 10:50:28 PM
I don't understand the appeal of The Walking Dead. Everyone I know who watches it hates it for the most part, and they always explain that the cool things that do happen make the considerable amount of filler bearable.

And while I get that it's sort of like LOST in that respect, the difference is that The Walking Dead is based on source material that's available and superior while LOST strung you along without a clue as to where it was going. In fact, most of the hardcore fans hate on the show for deviating from the source material for no good reason. It's sad when the biggest fans prefer the adventure video game to the popular TV show because the video game has characters that are more interesting and true to to the concept.

What I also don't understand is why people aren't instead watching Sons of Anarchy, which is one of the darkest, most mature, best-acted and most layered shows currently on television. Granted, season 3 was weak, but seasons 4 and 5 have been some of the best television of the last two years.

I also think Parks & Recreation and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia deserve more recognition than they got from AFI this year - the former for managing to be smart, funny and even sentimental while still remaining extremely watchable and the latter for delving into some of the darkest, edgiest comedy ever seen on television and still managing to offer some true laugh out loud moments.

30 Rock also deserves recognition for being consistently excellent, even if it's inessential.
 
2012-12-11 11:13:37 PM

Sweet Chin Music: Wayne 985: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: ... the explanation behind escaping the pit was pretty weak...

How dare you... That was one of my favorite scenes. I'm not sure what happened to his leg brace (I guess Bane left it on him), but I thought that whole sequence was kind of inspiring. The dialogue, the climb itself, and the music all made it worthwhile.

What bugs me is how the ledge Bruce leaps from has enough room to make a running start, but he chooses to stand on the edge and miss escaping by inches.


Actually, I thought that was strange too, but I didn't care much.
 
2012-12-12 12:12:24 AM
As a lifelong nerd-geek, I find this attention to comic-based properties dubious. I'm not getting in your windowless van, AFI.
 
2012-12-12 12:14:30 AM

ZeroCorpse: I was underwhelmed by TDKR. It was okay, but sort of predictable.

I really don't get why they even bothered to call the villain "Bane", as he shares nothing in common with the Bane from the comics.

Bane: South American, Latino.
Movie Bane: European white guy

Bane: Grew up in prison, became tough because of it.
Movie Bane: Escaped prison as a child. Became tough because he joined the League of Shadows.

Bane: Wears a Lucha mask.
Movie Bane: Wears a weird breath mask like Darth Vader.

Bane: Requires Venom to be superhumanly huge and powerful.
Movie Bane: What's Venom? He needs his Darth Vader mask to breathe.

Bane: Broke the Bat to become Gotham City's Crimelord and defeat the demonic bat of his dreams.
Movie Bane: Broke the Bat to get him out of the way so he could destroy Gotham in a convoluted, unnecessarily slow-going plot in which he was just a pawn (why wait to detonate? Why not just do it NOW?)

Bane: Set free everyone in Arkham Asylum, including the costumed villains.
Movie Bane: Let the Blackgate prisoners free. Just normal criminals.

Bane: Master of disguise.
Movie Bane: Master of droll comments and bad costuming.

Bane: Photographic memory and genius I.Q..
Movie Bane: Smart, but gullible.

Bane: Eventually helped Ras Al Ghul and Talia release a virus into Gotham and the world.
Movie Bane: Helped Talia drive a nuke around Gotham for a few months until Catwoman killed him.

It's just not Bane in the movie. It's Batman Darth Vader Terrorist.


So..either you've never watch the movie at all or you didn't finish watching it because you got several things wrong with "Movie Bane."
 
2012-12-13 02:28:14 AM
The Dark Knight is drastically overrated - even despite Ledger's terrific performance. Nolan gets far too much credit, and anyone who says TDK is the best comic book movie doesn't understand plot development, overarching themes or even character development. It wasn't even the best flick in the trilogy.

Take the ending, for instance. What sense does it make to paint Batman as the villain? Tell me which makes more sense: Telling the people of your city their newly-appointed DA, who hasn't been on the scene for less than year, was horrifically disfigured while simultaneously having to listen to the death of the love of his life via radio, causing him to go temporarily insane and make him murder a few crooked cops OR that your city's incorruptible symbol of justice has decided to turn his back on everything he had stood for and suddenly become a super villain?

This isn't up for debate. There is only one correct answer.

Nobody wants to admit it, but TDK is a lazily scripted, convoluted pile of nonsense where Nolan and his writing staff tried to tackle more themes than they had time to sort out - and even managed to screw up the ones they were capable of tying in by the roll of the credits. The world's greatest detective needs to spy on every citizen of Gotham in order to find the Joker? Are you kidding me? And this is supposed to be the "realistic" adaption?

Though incredibly predictable and sporting a completely absurd plot headed up by a main villain voiced seemingly by Sean Connery, Dark Knight Rises at least comes full circle as far as the themes are concerned. That's more than could be said for TDK.

Begins was and remains the best written of the trilogy, as well as probably the best Batman movie ever made.
 
2012-12-13 01:00:12 PM
Actually, I just watched it (all of it) a couple days before posting that. I didn't get anything wrong AFAIK. Care to cite examples?
 
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