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(Politico)   "Five republicans who matter to immigration" or as it's known in the real world "Four white guys and Rubio"   (politico.com) divider line 43
    More: Amusing, Luis Gutierrez, Raul Labrador, NumbersUSA, illegal immigration, immigration reform, emails, Lindsey Graham, National Immigration Forum  
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538 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Dec 2012 at 11:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 08:09:00 AM
Technically that's 2 white guys, Rubio, Raul and Diaz-Ballard who's aunt used to be married to Fidel Castro.

So the GOP now have 5 congresscritters and 3 Senators at least willing to talk semi-rationally about immigration?

Well, that's progress, innit?
 
2012-12-11 09:09:28 AM
 
2012-12-11 09:26:02 AM
I just do not see how republicans can turn immigration into a winning issue. They can't even start the conversation without blowing racist dog whistles. If they do manage to come up with something ground breaking and compassionate the racist in the party will abandon them. To have effective immigration reform they have to go big. Something on par with the civil rights act. It would have t include a guest worker program. That will enrage the base far more than they already are.
 
2012-12-11 10:28:05 AM

SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.


Hispanic population surged 43%, rising to 50.5 million in 2010 from 35.3 million in 2000. Project that forward to 2020 and you could expect 77.2 million Hispanics less the 40,000 you identified (20,000 x 2 to get 10 years) and that is a 76.8 million increase in the Hispanic population

You clearly forgot to carry the potato. Stay away from math it is not your friend. Texas will be a Blue state by 2020.
 
2012-12-11 11:58:21 AM
I guess being pro illegal is the only way to matter on immigration.
 
2012-12-11 11:58:59 AM

sammyk: I just do not see how republicans can turn immigration into a winning issue. They can't even start the conversation without blowing racist dog whistles. If they do manage to come up with something ground breaking and compassionate the racist in the party will abandon them. To have effective immigration reform they have to go big. Something on par with the civil rights act. It would have t include a guest worker program. That will enrage the base far more than they already are.


Simple, you don't care if the side that supports planned parenthood (started off as a way to kill brown people) and blows up brown people with drones, started a war for slavery, opposed the civil rights movement and founded the KKK are the ones calling you racist.
 
2012-12-11 11:59:26 AM

sammyk: I just do not see how republicans can turn immigration into a winning issue. They can't even start the conversation without blowing racist dog whistles. If they do manage to come up with something ground breaking and compassionate the racist in the party will abandon them. To have effective immigration reform they have to go big. Something on par with the civil rights act. It would have t include a guest worker program. That will enrage the base far more than they already are.


1derful: I guess being pro illegal is the only way to matter on immigration.


Heh.
 
2012-12-11 12:00:39 PM
Cubans are not Latinos, as we know them.

Cubans here in the US come from either the pool of criminals and lunatics Castro sent over here or they were the robber barons in pre-Castro Cuba - who enslaved Cuba to run their plantations. Until the people got tired of it and started shooting and burning them.

Fark em.
 
2012-12-11 12:04:54 PM

SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.


My understanding is that immigration from other Latin American countries have increased though -- this may not be reflected in your numbers.
 
2012-12-11 12:25:06 PM
Can I, as a nonhispanic caucasian male, have an opion on immigration policy?
 
2012-12-11 12:32:38 PM
The GOP's base is far too Southern and racist for them to ever position themselves on the right side of immigration. A token Latino will not win that demographic.
 
2012-12-11 12:34:27 PM

mrshowrules: SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.

Hispanic population surged 43%, rising to 50.5 million in 2010 from 35.3 million in 2000. Project that forward to 2020 and you could expect 77.2 million Hispanics less the 40,000 you identified (20,000 x 2 to get 10 years) and that is a 76.8 million increase in the Hispanic population

You clearly forgot to carry the potato. Stay away from math it is not your friend. Texas will be a Blue state by 2020.


NRO maths. The count to purple and forget to carry the potato like it's going out of style.
 
2012-12-11 12:35:11 PM

Saiga410: Can I, as a nonhispanic caucasian male, have an opion on immigration policy?


I love that band!
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-11 12:42:22 PM

Saiga410: Can I, as a nonhispanic caucasian male, have an opion on immigration policy?


Yep. But you'll probably fark it up by acting righteously indignant about something or another that will make you seem like you shouldn't share your opinion on immigration policy.

Cause that's what we do, brother. That's what we do.

/I honestly don't know if more immigration is good or bad.
//And so I don't have an opinion on Reform any more than I have an opinion on rack and pinion steering vs recirculated ball steering.
 
2012-12-11 12:43:47 PM

DarwiOdrade: Saiga410: Can I, as a nonhispanic caucasian male, have an opion on immigration policy?

I love that band!
[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 320x131]


Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far much more bitter, cynical sense of humor.
 
sp
2012-12-11 12:45:02 PM
1. Close the border.
2. Permanent(as long as they obey the law) work visas for the illegals here now.
3. No path to citizenship for the illegals here now, ever.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.
 
2012-12-11 12:45:53 PM

Smeggy Smurf: sammyk: I just do not see how republicans can turn immigration into a winning issue. They can't even start the conversation without blowing racist dog whistles. If they do manage to come up with something ground breaking and compassionate the racist in the party will abandon them. To have effective immigration reform they have to go big. Something on par with the civil rights act. It would have t include a guest worker program. That will enrage the base far more than they already are.

Simple, you don't care if the side that supports planned parenthood (started off as a way to kill brown people) and blows up brown people with drones, started a war for slavery, opposed the civil rights movement and founded the KKK are the ones calling you racist.


0/10 too obvious. Won't get any bites. Although, you do get credit for being technically "correct" while making a misleading statement.
 
2012-12-11 12:53:14 PM

1derful: I guess being pro illegal is the only way to matter on immigration.


Worked for GWB
 
2012-12-11 01:05:54 PM

monoski: Worked for GWB


To his credit, GWB understood how important the Latino vote would be in the future, and he wasn't particularly a hard-ass when it came to immigration.
 
2012-12-11 01:07:32 PM

SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.


Except we continue to have immigration from Central and South America, from the middle-east, and from Asia. Said populations are also growing - and growing rapidly.

All of those are demographics the GOP is losing, and losing big. (Arab-Americans they're not quite so disparate on, but they are still losing - and they lost big in 2008, which correlates with Obama's foreign policy which has drawn criticism.)

When your demographic is "white men" - and white men are increasingly shrinking in the demographic pie - and your platform is "bomb the brown people and kick the ones here out" - you have an issue.

This is a topic I was actually talking about last night - these demographics SHOULDN'T be so overwhelmingly Democratic - they should run the spectrum on business and social issues, just as white males (theoretically) do. The GOP, however, has made it their strategy to alienate them, and the Democrats have been more than happy to include them in the big tent.

This is a serious issue for the GOP. If they cannot make inroads - and soon - they will continue to lose Presidential elections, they will begin to lose otherwise-safe states like Arizona and Texas in the Senate and House (admittedly going to take a while for Texas to elect a Democratic senator), and they will eventually get relegated to a regional party.

Of course, this was all discussed in detail nearly a decade ago in The Emerging Democratic Majority and the Republicans, instead of learning from history and the accurate prediction from the 60s of the oncoming Republican Majority, cranked up the derp and made that 2004 projection into a reality by increasing the anti-immigrant rhetoric, continuing the "war on women", and failing in virtually all ways to make inroads with the growing minority demographics.

The clock is running down on Republicans' chances to increase support from minorities before they lose an entire generation of minority voters.
 
2012-12-11 01:14:12 PM

BeesNuts: Saiga410: Can I, as a nonhispanic caucasian male, have an opion on immigration policy?

Yep. But you'll probably fark it up by acting righteously indignant about something or another that will make you seem like you shouldn't share your opinion on immigration policy.

Cause that's what we do, brother. That's what we do.

/I honestly don't know if more immigration is good or bad.
//And so I don't have an opinion on Reform any more than I have an opinion on rack and pinion steering vs recirculated ball steering.


As a white guy, whose family includes a LOT of immigrants my opinion is to eliminate much of the idiocy. I fully support immigration, because it is one of the things that make America great! The ONLY people I would bar from immigrating to this great country are criminals (murderers, rapists, and so on) and the clinically insane. I don't care if they're MENSA candidates, or ditch diggers. You want to come here for a bite at the dream? Great! You were being persecuted? Welcome!

All you immigrant descendants should kind of chill out and let others come to a great country too. They might even help it become better!
 
2012-12-11 01:14:21 PM

mrshowrules: SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.

Hispanic population surged 43%, rising to 50.5 million in 2010 from 35.3 million in 2000. Project that forward to 2020 and you could expect 77.2 million Hispanics less the 40,000 you identified (20,000 x 2 to get 10 years) and that is a 76.8 million increase in the Hispanic population

You clearly forgot to carry the potato. Stay away from math it is not your friend. Texas will be a Blue state by 2020.


Texas may become blue by 2020 but by then the GOP will have made sure that their electoral college votes get split to minimize impact.
 
2012-12-11 01:30:49 PM

EighthDay: The clock is running down on Republicans' chances to increase support from minorities before they lose an entire generation of minority voters.


Hispanic immigrant here. College educated, upper middle class, early 30s.

Too late for that. Gotta tell you, not a single person in my family votes Republican. Not a damn one. I have relatives that are actually pretty racist (or have been in the past, towards black people) that voted for Obama both times.
 
2012-12-11 01:33:26 PM

mrshowrules: less the 40,000 you identified (20,000 x 2 to get 10 years)


assuming the exact same rate for the next 20 years. the trend could accelerate or it could reverse. So let's just compromise our values just in case.
 
2012-12-11 01:41:44 PM

Zerochance: Hispanic immigrant here.


why did you (or your family) choose to immigrate here?

Republicans stand for small government. We believe the smaller the government, the less corrupt it is, the less tyranny the government can have over its people and the fewer roadblocks the government can place on its economy. And it seems like most people immigrate to the US to escape countries with a) bad economies with no opportunity; b) corruption; c) tyrannical governments. So it seems like immigrants come here, then vote for the same exact things they just fleed from.
 
2012-12-11 01:59:48 PM

SlothB77: mrshowrules: less the 40,000 you identified (20,000 x 2 to get 10 years)

assuming the exact same rate for the next 20 years. the trend could accelerate or it could reverse. So let's just compromise our values just in case.


Which values are those? Nativism? Xenophobia? I'm all in favor of compro9mising those values, aren't you?
 
2012-12-11 02:00:37 PM

sp: 1. Close the border.
2. Permanent(as long as they obey the law) work visas for the illegals here now.
3. No path to citizenship for the illegals here now, ever.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.


Yes, creating permanent underclass of quasi-slave labor sounds like a brilliant idea.
 
2012-12-11 02:14:43 PM
Conservatives champion small government, less regulation and lower taxes for citizens. The GOP supports these ideas FOR BUSINESSES. Huge difference.

The GOP is not conservative nor is it comprised of them.
 
2012-12-11 02:25:40 PM

sammyk: To have effective immigration reform they have to go big.


No they don't. "Effective" only means deal with pro-illegal immigration advocates approve of.
 
2012-12-11 02:28:15 PM

SlothB77: Zerochance: Hispanic immigrant here.

why did you (or your family) choose to immigrate here?

Republicans stand for small government. We believe the smaller the government, the less corrupt it is, the less tyranny the government can have over its people and the fewer roadblocks the government can place on its economy. And it seems like most people immigrate to the US to escape countries with a) bad economies with no opportunity; b) corruption; c) tyrannical governments. So it seems like immigrants come here, then vote for the same exact things they just fleed from.


I didn't move here escaping persecution, or poverty or anything like that; my family back home is actually fairly well off. To be perfectly honest, I moved because the 95% Roman Catholic environment was just too damn conservative for me. Sure, I knew economic opportunities for myself would be better in the US, but mostly, I just didn't feel like I fit in.

I get the feeling you are trying to attribute the systemic corruption in Latin American countries to leftist policies, and let me clear that up for you. I was born and raised in Colombia; countries don't get that much more corrupt, unfortunately. The problem with corruption there is absolutely systemic, almost like it's ingrained in the culture, and it involves both the government AND the private sector.

From the government side, Colombians are heavily, heavily overtaxed, and they don't have much of an infrastructure or safety net to show for it, so to say that I'm basically changing for the same is categorically untrue. Yes, we probably do need a certain level of entitlement reform here in the US but Americans get so goddamn much from their tax dollars it absolutely boggles the mind. Public roads, unemployment benefits, student loans, Medicare, Medicaid, public schools, the police, the military, etc. There is simply no point of comparison. Absolutely none.

Republicans are also, in my view, incredibly selective about the size of government, and completely unconcerned by it when they are the ones in charge. Weed? Bad. Gay marriage? Bad. Abortion? Bad. Reducing taxes on corporations and the uber-rich does not make you a champion of small government or civil liberties; it just makes you a plutocrat.

Hell, the only area where Republicans want more regulation for business - and this was plainly evident by the rhetoric from their candidates during their primaries - is the hiring of brown people. That's it.
 
2012-12-11 02:46:30 PM

Zerochance: Hell, the only area where Republicans want more regulation for business - and this was plainly evident by the rhetoric from their candidates during their primaries - is the hiring of brown people. That's it.


So when you hear illegal immigrant you think brown people?
 
2012-12-11 02:48:31 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Zerochance: Hell, the only area where Republicans want more regulation for business - and this was plainly evident by the rhetoric from their candidates during their primaries - is the hiring of brown people. That's it.

So when you hear illegal immigrant you think brown people?


I do. I'm a Latino immigrant myself. I know plenty of illegal immigrants; all of them Hispanic and one Canadian.
 
2012-12-11 02:51:31 PM

SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.


I see you don't understand what they are talking about in the voting part. Those guys aren't leaving, and they were having kids like crazy the last 18 years. Net migration has zero impact on this demographic data.

But I get it - anyone who is brown isn't a "real 'murican" and should go back to Mexico, even though they were born here 30 years ago.
 
2012-12-11 03:01:38 PM

Zerochance: I do. I'm a Latino immigrant myself. I know plenty of illegal immigrants; all of them Hispanic and one Canadian.


Yes most illegal immigrants are Hispanic but when you talk about requiring things like e-verify that would apply to the Canadian as well.
 
2012-12-11 03:12:45 PM

Smeggy Smurf: sammyk: I just do not see how republicans can turn immigration into a winning issue. They can't even start the conversation without blowing racist dog whistles. If they do manage to come up with something ground breaking and compassionate the racist in the party will abandon them. To have effective immigration reform they have to go big. Something on par with the civil rights act. It would have t include a guest worker program. That will enrage the base far more than they already are.

Simple, you don't care if the side that supports planned parenthood (started off as a way to kill brown people) and blows up brown people with drones, started a war for slavery, opposed the civil rights movement and founded the KKK are the ones calling you racist.


Here's some interesting facts, which you might want to see:

1964 Civil rights vote:

By party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)
The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)

Civil rights in the 60s was not a Republican Party vs. Democratic Party issue. It was a Confederacy vs. Union issue. That there was a Democrat in the white house pushing this mearly explains why the south was lost by the democratic party. Effectively the racists were kicked out of the Democratic party and they have now joined the Republican party.

So to everyone else (trolls can ignore this), stop thinking this troll has a point, or is even being partially accurate on the civil rights issue. They aren't. 

Just be glad that it didn't take another 750,000 dead to get this point across.
 
2012-12-11 03:17:03 PM

Jairzinho: mrshowrules: SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.

Hispanic population surged 43%, rising to 50.5 million in 2010 from 35.3 million in 2000. Project that forward to 2020 and you could expect 77.2 million Hispanics less the 40,000 you identified (20,000 x 2 to get 10 years) and that is a 76.8 million increase in the Hispanic population

You clearly forgot to carry the potato. Stay away from math it is not your friend. Texas will be a Blue state by 2020.

Texas may become blue by 2020 but by then the GOP will have made sure that their electoral college votes get split to minimize impact.


There is a limit to what you can do with Gerrymandering. Not sure what that limit is though?
 
2012-12-11 03:36:19 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Zerochance: I do. I'm a Latino immigrant myself. I know plenty of illegal immigrants; all of them Hispanic and one Canadian.

Yes most illegal immigrants are Hispanic but when you talk about requiring things like e-verify that would apply to the Canadian as well.


Don't forget the Irish ones, Philly has a bunch of them here illegally. Have met several of them, odd part is they look just like Americans.
 
2012-12-11 03:40:38 PM

sp: 1. Close the border.
2. Permanent(as long as they obey the law) work visas for the illegals here now.
3. No path to citizenship for the illegals here now, ever.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.


Sounds completely stupid.

How about we actually enhance our economy:

1) Open the border (effectively)
2) Issue work visas to whoever comes over
3) Provide an expedited path to citizenship

Sort of like when all of our ancestors came over. The only people who should have even a small beef with near unrestricted immigration should be Native Americans, which to be honest, it looks like even they came over via a land bridge at some time in the past.

3 of 4 of my grandparents were immigrants. Both of my wife's parents are immigrants. We need more, not less, imigration.

But I get it, they are brown and scary.
 
2012-12-11 04:13:00 PM

monoski: Have met several of them, odd part is they look just like Americans.


No they don't.
 
2012-12-11 05:17:10 PM
Is the GOP still laboring under the impression that Mexicans will flock to vote for a Cuban?

Because that's right up there with not knowing/caring about the difference between Sunni and Shia.
 
2012-12-11 05:52:29 PM
"Four white guys and Rubio"

The worst idea for a sitcom Chuck Lorre has had to date.
 
2012-12-11 11:41:34 PM

SlothB77: The GOP is going to get slaughtered in the future because of immigration and demographics.

Except for one problem: Last May, the Pew Hispanic Center, in a study based on U.S. and Mexican statistics, reported that net migration from Mexico to this country had fallen to zero from 2005 to 2010. Pew said 20,000 more people moved to Mexico from the United States than from there to here in those years.


If there's one thing Mexicans (and the others South of the border) are known for, it's family planning and a reluctance to have children.
 
2012-12-12 05:29:40 AM

Insatiable Jesus: Cubans are not Latinos, as we know them.

Cubans here in the US come from either the pool of criminals and lunatics Castro sent over here or they were the robber barons in pre-Castro Cuba - who enslaved Cuba to run their plantations. Until the people got tired of it and started shooting and burning them.

Fark em.


Ah. The Batista chronies. Of course, not all Cubans who immigrated here after Castro came into power supported Batista, but a lot of people forget that while Castro's not exactly the best leader in the world, the guy he overthrew was just as bad or maybe worse. Its basically a case where "no matter who wins, everybody loses." The same thing happened in China with Mao and Chiang Kai Shek.
 
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