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(Columbus Dispatch)   526 games (42.8 percent of the season)   (bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com) divider line 147
    More: Followup, NHL, NHL All-Star Game, Nationwide Arena, Gary Bettman, Blue Jackets, Phoenix Coyotes, MLB All-Star Game, deputy commissioner  
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2310 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Dec 2012 at 8:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 08:55:51 AM
This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:53 AM
Blow the whole thing up and start over! Or just stay in the Euro leagues and televise it here like they do with soccer, or start a Canadian league. I'm tired of this crap from the NHL, I blame the owners almost exclusively.
 
2012-12-11 09:00:44 AM
I've already given up. I would advise all of you to do the same.
 
2012-12-11 09:01:36 AM

ghall3: Blow the whole thing up and start over! Or just stay in the Euro leagues and televise it here like they do with soccer, or start a Canadian league. I'm tired of this crap from the NHL, I blame the owners almost exclusively.


At the point the players should just form thier own league.
 
2012-12-11 09:05:10 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-11 09:08:17 AM

fatalvenom: I've already given up. I would advise all of you to do the same.


Yeah, I'm in this camp too and pretty bummed about it......
 
2012-12-11 09:15:22 AM

Warlordtrooper: At the point the players should just form thier own league.


None of them have the money to run a league that pays more than minimum wage.
 
2012-12-11 09:15:50 AM

Warlordtrooper: ghall3: Blow the whole thing up and start over! Or just stay in the Euro leagues and televise it here like they do with soccer, or start a Canadian league. I'm tired of this crap from the NHL, I blame the owners almost exclusively.

At the point the players should just form thier own league.


With blackjack and hookers?
 
2012-12-11 09:15:56 AM
What's this "hockey" you keep referring to?
 
2012-12-11 09:22:04 AM
F*ck Bettman, f*ck Daly, f*ck Fehr, Shanny's cool, f*ck Jeremy Jacobs, f*ck the union, I'm out.
 
2012-12-11 09:30:04 AM
here's something i don't understand: the last lockout was about the cap, and the league was willing to lose a season to get the cap because they believed they needed one to run their teams properly. they got the cap, and everyone made more money including the players.

but now it seems the owners are willing to lose a season to get more control over contract length. how is that something worth losing a season over? Will max 5 year contracts somehow make the difference between being profitable and not to a team like Nashville or Phoenix? Hardly.

This lockout does not appear to be about a core business issue, so it's a mystery to me why they are not playing yet. No one gets this lost revenue back.
 
2012-12-11 09:35:57 AM
I gave up on hockey when Bettman basically sold the Thrashers to Winnepeg and let the floundering Coyotes stay.
 
2012-12-11 09:37:38 AM
at this rate, EA's NHL 14 is going to be a blank disk.
 
2012-12-11 09:38:56 AM

december: here's something i don't understand: the last lockout was about the cap, and the league was willing to lose a season to get the cap because they believed they needed one to run their teams properly. they got the cap, and everyone made more money including the players.

but now it seems the owners are willing to lose a season to get more control over contract length. how is that something worth losing a season over? Will max 5 year contracts somehow make the difference between being profitable and not to a team like Nashville or Phoenix? Hardly.

This lockout does not appear to be about a core business issue, so it's a mystery to me why they are not playing yet. No one gets this lost revenue back.



I'm totally with you.

I've been saying that from day one. Last lockout was all about the cap. The owners were willing to die to get it and the players were willing to go to the end of the Earth to avoid it. Well, we know how that worked out and here we are.

For the players especially, there's absolutely no end game to losing the season. As any guy from the last lockout will tell you, they never made that money back, it's gone.

Of course that doesn't mean that the players have to accept the first deal shoved under their noses, so I don't blame them for wanting to eke out the best they can get, but at this point, WTF is going on?

My personal view is that the superstars like Toews and Crosby who are front and center at the negotiations, are holding out as long as possible (probably due to Donald Fehr) to get the deal they want before putting anything to a vote.

I'm certain that any number of the league's past proposals would have passed if the PA had voted.

A union of superstars is no ordinary union.
 
2012-12-11 09:43:59 AM

december: but now it seems the owners are willing to lose a season to get more control over contract length. how is that something worth losing a season over? Will max 5 year contracts somehow make the difference between being profitable and not to a team like Nashville or Phoenix? Hardly.


The problem with having longer contracts is that it effectively makes the cap worthless as teams sign players to contracts that the players have no likelihood of finishing. Also, the longer contracts will continue to exist because the less popular/rich teams have to offer SOMETHING that the popular/good teams can't offer. Of course, when the rich teams decide "f*ck it, we really don't want to lose this guy, then they go over the top with their offers, and that becomes the new baseline for agents for all contracts moving forward.

The problem is that while every fan knows that the contracts are retarded, that doesn't mean agents and players won't act as though that establishes a new norm.

A 5-year contract limit with an extra couple years available for staying with the team is similar to the NBA system and would be a much better way to run the league. The reason the NBA doesn't have the balance is due to inherent differences in the sport (each player has a much larger impact on the game than every hockey player but the goalie), not because of any type of contract system.
 
2012-12-11 09:44:38 AM

ManateeGag: at this rate, EA's NHL 14 is going to be a blank disk.


NHL '14: Lockout Negotiator Edition

The entire game is like that bus driving game to nowhere and back except you just stare at Bettman's face the whole time
 
2012-12-11 09:46:01 AM
Ummmmm, did everybody miss the joke?
There's only 82 games in a season.

www.gsmnation.com
 
2012-12-11 09:46:32 AM

december: but now it seems the owners are willing to lose a season to get more control over contract length. how is that something worth losing a season over?


If they can nuke the contracts now, they'll make more money later. Even if they don't have a season this year, the owners don't have a whole lot of expenses and can afford to wait it out. The owners are playing a long game and the players know that.
 
2012-12-11 09:47:14 AM
As a fan, I gotta say that 5 year contracts would be nice because it would be great for the trade deadline day to mean something again.

Of course, there's already a large number of ridiculously long contracts out there, so it's not going to get solved over night.
 
2012-12-11 09:48:27 AM

GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: Ummmmm, did everybody miss the joke?
There's only 82 games in a season.


30 teams/2 * 82 * 42.8% = 526
 
2012-12-11 09:55:23 AM
Yep.

ct.fra.bz
 
2012-12-11 09:56:29 AM
hockeygods.com

Step one: Buy "Face Off Hockey Management Bard Game"
Step Two: Use the game's rules as your new contract
Step Three: GET BACK ON THE ICE
 
2012-12-11 09:56:39 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: Ummmmm, did everybody miss the joke?
There's only 82 games in a season.

30 teams/2 * 82 * 42.8% = 526


Math and logic have NO place on FARK young man.
 
2012-12-11 09:57:45 AM
i guess i agree with Fehr when he says the benchmark for negotiation is the last CBA.

The owners seem to want to rewrite the whole thing without making any concessions to the players based off the last CBA. The owners keep comparing their concessions to previous offers they have made. But if it's not a concession off the CBA then it doesn't really matter ... it's not like you get credit for sweetening a horrible initial offer. The initial offer doesn't even register as part of the negotiation.
 
2012-12-11 09:59:35 AM
fatalvenom: I've already given up. I would advise all of you to do the same.

This. There is no season. It has been shot to hell. Move along....nothing more to see here.
 
2012-12-11 10:00:37 AM

GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: Ummmmm, did everybody miss the joke?
There's only 82 games in a season.

[www.gsmnation.com image 448x253]


most seasons
 
2012-12-11 10:01:04 AM
Jarome Iginla may have played his last game as a Calgary Flame.

/I promised Mess I wouldn't cry
 
2012-12-11 10:02:33 AM

december: i guess i agree with Fehr when he says the benchmark for negotiation is the last CBA.

The owners seem to want to rewrite the whole thing without making any concessions to the players based off the last CBA. The owners keep comparing their concessions to previous offers they have made. But if it's not a concession off the CBA then it doesn't really matter ... it's not like you get credit for sweetening a horrible initial offer. The initial offer doesn't even register as part of the negotiation.


You must be interesting to deal with in the face of budget cuts. "Well, I know you guys want to cut your budget, but you really need to give me more than what I'm currently getting. Your other offers don't count."
 
2012-12-11 10:04:21 AM
Where is the NLRB when you need it?
 
2012-12-11 10:08:17 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: Ummmmm, did everybody miss the joke?
There's only 82 games in a season.

30 teams/2 * 82 * 42.8% = 526


I shouldn't try to do math before coffee.
 
2012-12-11 10:09:22 AM

IAmRight: december: i guess i agree with Fehr when he says the benchmark for negotiation is the last CBA.

The owners seem to want to rewrite the whole thing without making any concessions to the players based off the last CBA. The owners keep comparing their concessions to previous offers they have made. But if it's not a concession off the CBA then it doesn't really matter ... it's not like you get credit for sweetening a horrible initial offer. The initial offer doesn't even register as part of the negotiation.

You must be interesting to deal with in the face of budget cuts. "Well, I know you guys want to cut your budget, but you really need to give me more than what I'm currently getting. Your other offers don't count."


what do budget cuts have to do with financially thriving pro sports leagues?

images.sodahead.com
 
2012-12-11 10:21:28 AM
I submitted this yesterday but no one bit, so cheer up hockey fans! This guy is certain there will still be a season!
 
2012-12-11 10:22:19 AM

december: what do budget cuts have to do with financially thriving pro sports leagues?


"Thriving" is pushing it quite a bit.
 
2012-12-11 10:22:30 AM
Go ahead and put the season to sleep doc. I cant stand to see her suffer any more. She will be waiting for me at the Rainbow Bridge Sports Bar and Oddsmakers. She will be young and playful again at the Rainbow Bridge doc, and she wont ever be crippled there by the full blown Bettmans. Next time I see this season she will have big dumb happy eyes like Red Wings fans, a rubber Stanley cup in her mouth, and she will be rolling around on her back like a Canadian team in the playoffs.

Go ahead doc. slip the needle into her paw. Its the right thing to do for her now
 
2012-12-11 10:25:05 AM

fatalvenom: I've already given up. I would advise all of you to do the same.


Done. And I'd have more reason than most to actually come back if games resume.

/Note the lack of "and when"
 
2012-12-11 10:25:21 AM
I've espoused too many opinions and projected to much optimism in saying there would be hockey by New Years day. When the PA and the owners finally decide to stop acting like children and make real negotiations without personal feelings getting involved we may see hockey. I'm not hopeful right now after seeing how the owners reacted to the players bring back in Donald Fehr to close out the negotiations.

I guess right now my feelings and those of a lot of my friends and colleagues that like hockey could be summed up as apathetic, which is exactly the worst case scenario for the NHL.
 
2012-12-11 10:26:12 AM
But yeah, fighting against a 10-year CBA and max-year contracts is pretty goddamn stupid. Unless you'd like the contracts to be able to be severed at any point by the team without an obligation to pay the rest.
 
2012-12-11 10:28:17 AM

King Something: This is why we can't have nice ice things.

 
2012-12-11 10:31:38 AM

Raider_dad: King Something: This is why we can't have nice ice things.

 
2012-12-11 10:36:00 AM

Warlordtrooper: ghall3: Blow the whole thing up and start over! Or just stay in the Euro leagues and televise it here like they do with soccer, or start a Canadian league. I'm tired of this crap from the NHL, I blame the owners almost exclusively.

At the point the players should just form thier own league.


Great idea. Where would they play?

The current NHL owners (and their allies, the NBA owners) already control all the best arenas in all the major cities of North America.
 
2012-12-11 10:37:16 AM
And nothing of value was lost that day...
 
2012-12-11 10:40:15 AM

Rev.K: F*ck Bettman, f*ck Daly, f*ck Fehr, Shanny's cool, f*ck Jeremy Jacobs, f*ck the union, I'm out.


I think every hockey fan needs to publicly call for Bettman's ass here. And I mean via the social networks and protests at NHL arenas.

Let's say they do get a deal done this week (HA! even though in reality, they're not that far apart), there should probably be two types of protests at arenas:

1) At arenas where the owners are shiat (Boston, Minnesota, Toronto, Columbus) or the fan support is solid (any Original 6 team or any Canadian team with the possible exception of Winnipeg since they're "new", the northeastern US from Washington north, San Jose and maybe St. Louis), no one buys tickets to games for the 1st couple of weeks and the fans who would be inside are protesting outside, calling for Bettman's and Fehr's asses. Probably call for the owners to sell their teams too.

2) Where the teams need fan support (anywhere in the south and possibly Winnipeg and St. Louis), fans should buy tickets and go to games. But have signs calling for Bettman and Fehr to go. Chant "fire Bettman" and "fire Fehr." Basically say "we're here despite you assholes stealing our game." Or maybe buy the tickets but stay outside and protest.

There needs to be a widespread effort to strike back at these assholes and the BS. No business should be able to get away with spitting in their customers faces, our faces, for so long. The NHL needs us far more than we need them at this point.
 
2012-12-11 10:41:11 AM

justtray: And nothing of value was lost that day...


"Thank you, it was good to have you here, you cocksmoking f*ckhole".

- Josh Homme
 
2012-12-11 10:41:37 AM
Hey, since we actually have a hockey thread and it's December...

Does anyone know what the broadcast situation is for the World Juniors in the US this year?

Will it be on NBCSN? NHL Network? Any official online streaming (the "gray" streaming sites are always crappy quality)?
 
2012-12-11 10:41:42 AM

desertgeek: The NHL needs us far more than we need them at this point.


The NHL owners really don't need you. They are billionaires whether or not there's an NHL.
 
2012-12-11 10:41:55 AM

soopey: When the PA and the owners finally decide to stop acting like children and make real negotiations without personal feelings getting involved we may see hockey. I'm not hopeful right now after seeing how the owners reacted to the players bring back in Donald Fehr to close out the negotiations.


You don't get to pick the other side's negotiator. If that worked, Jeremy Jacobs would have been gone long ago and a deal would have gotten done.

Rev.K: I'm certain that any number of the league's past proposals would have passed if the PA had voted.


Nope. Fehr's strategy (and past practice) is to keep the players closely informed, and work with their backing. That's how he's prevented defections this time around. The previous NHLPA leadership did not use this strategy and lost in a landslide.

The problem is not Bettman (although he's doing nothing to help the NHL at this point), the problem is a few owners whose franchises have lucrative regional cable deals. They don't want to share that $ with anyone else. In other words, they see the NHL as lots of independent clubs, rather than a unified league, a la the NFL. Please note which league has been far more successful in marketing its product and maintaining its profitability. Jacobs and the other owners like him are not good for the overall growth of the league, and the other owners would be far better off long term to kick these guys to the curb and change the fundamental league structure to be more like the NFL, with substantial revenue sharing. As long as teams are allowed to maintain regional networks to the detriment of the whole league, the NHL is not going to grow to anything like its potential. The ownership is its own worst enemy, not the players or the NHLPA. It appears that the NHLPA has a far clearer picture of what is needed to grow hockey than the owners do. This is where Bettman, if he was anything like a Pete Rozelle, could be helpful, in helping the owners realize that by sacrificing some independence, they stand to reap far greater profits down the road. But Bettman couldn't carry Rozelle's jock, and the NHL will probably remain a stagnant backwater sport.
 
2012-12-11 10:42:05 AM
My team's playing. Go Thunderbirds!!!!
 
2012-12-11 10:43:18 AM

desertgeek: At arenas where the owners are shiat


Not that I'm disagreeing, but what do you feel makes MLSE a shiat owner?
 
2012-12-11 10:43:37 AM

IAmRight: The NHL owners really don't need you. They are billionaires whether or not there's an NHL.


Yeah, everybody there can take a $100 million hit just like that. Right. If the league's claim that most of their clubs are unprofitable, yeah they do need the fans more than the fans need hockey.
 
2012-12-11 10:46:03 AM

desertgeek: "fire Fehr."


Fehr is not the problem. He's just a face, and good enough at what he does to help the players stand up to the owners on something approaching a level playing field. The owners created this mess.
 
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