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(NPR)   Why we need a California tag: California schools districts taking loans that are "the equivalent of payday loans." One district now owes more than $1 billion on a loan of $100 million. Way to go, professional smart people   (npr.org) divider line 44
    More: Dumbass, Los Angeles Unified, National Intelligence Council, school districts, Bill Lockyer, loans, elementary schools, California State Treasurer  
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8727 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 1:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-11 01:36:26 AM
4 votes:
"So if we take out this loan, we can defer the payments for 20 years, at which point we'll be paying several thousand percent interest?"
"Yes."
"Well let's see, I retire in 10 years so... let's do it!"
"But what about when the loans come due and suddenly the district is out of money?"
"What part about me retiring in ten years didn't you get?"
2012-12-11 02:28:14 AM
3 votes:
another question? why is this even legal to do, on either level?

why do these loan products even exist at such usurious rates, and why are schoolboards allowed to make such terrible decisions? where's the oversight in either regard?
2012-12-11 01:57:07 AM
3 votes:
This seems more like internal corruption to me. Someone got a kick back to take out he loan. Besides, Western Sky is under investigation/indictment for usuary and fraud.
2012-12-11 01:48:38 AM
3 votes:

archichris: School Districts are not running low on money, they are running low on common sense.

They build multi-million dollar sports complexes and pay millions in copying charges for gods sake.

Our local school district is DEAD LAST in our state, yet it spends more money than every other district int he state but one, over $15,000 per student per year.

That means by the time they graduate we have spent $180,000 on their k-12 education. Its insane.

The School District defends its policy of social advancement, sending children on from 3rd grade who cannot read at grade level. They claim to graduate 85% of their students, but they only count the ones who make it to Senior Year. They actually lose 50% of the students between freshman and senior years. Of those 85%, only 5% are certified ready for higher education or work without remedial training. They graduated, but they cannot do basic algebra or write intelligent reports. (intelligible)

We tried to get a new school board elected this last election, first time in 20 years they have been challenged from the outside. In the last 20 years every single school board member has been either picked by our local democratic party or is a former member of the school administration. They have wasted three quarters of a billion dollars on results that decline every single year for the last 20.

The single worst place you can put your children around here is the public school system, but because there is a 50 million dollar budget and unlimited taxation authority, the Democrats simply will not let it go. They even managed to recall a special ballot for a retiring member after one of our candidates was the only person to file to run in the special election.

It had literally not happened in anyones memory, they assumed there would be an appointment by the state department of education like always. So when our guy was the only one there, they put pressure on the County Clerk to recall the ballot, then had the state education director say that the election couldn't be held because the resignation wasn't accepted for 21 days......one day longer than the filing deadline. They went so far to ignore the fact that the information they used to deny the election WASNT AVAILABLE UNTIL AFTER THE BALLOTS HAD BEEN PRINTED.

They literally sat there with straight faces and said that information after the fact justified the actions taken before the fact. Which is a good thing for them, otherwise what they did would be illegal under state law. But the Governor is a democrat so go figure there was no interest in an investigation into the matter.


Blame your local school board if your schools owe a billion dollars, but good luck getting rid of them.


our schools are great. we live in a very mixed race and income urban setting but all our public schools are in the top %10 and budgeting is painless. YMMV.
2012-12-11 12:47:51 AM
3 votes:

simplicimus: In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.
Who are they borrowing from? Loan Sharks?


charlesmobley.files.wordpress.com
2012-12-11 12:19:18 AM
3 votes:
Who are they borrowing this money from, anyway?


fiver5: It's California, they can just raise taxes to get that money back.


Not really. That's part of their problem. Tax increases have to go to the voters or be approved by a congressional supermajority (if I'm not mistaken). Though the Democrats do have one of those in CA now...
2012-12-11 03:45:13 AM
2 votes:

simplicimus: ecmoRandomNumbers: Many of you who biatch about the stupidity of public schools seem to forget that the teachers are never in charge of education. It's always dumbasses YOU elect. I have never met a smart school board member. Ever.

If teachers were actually in charge, things might be a lot different.

In theory, an interesting proposal. But thanks to NCLB, teachers are limited to teaching to the test.


I know. It's why I work at Verizon instead of teaching now. Did that for 10 years. Education is screwed without a major overhaul. We will be developing nation status within a generation.
2012-12-11 02:02:15 AM
2 votes:

simplicimus: bromah: This seems more like internal corruption to me. Someone got a kick back to take out he loan. Besides, Western Sky is under investigation/indictment for usuary and fraud.

Serious question:How can the US government act against a sovereign nation?


Fine print says he is an individual member of the Nation, that's HOW.
2012-12-11 01:55:38 AM
2 votes:

giftedmadness: Lol public schooling


If it was private schooling you'd be taking out payday loans for 16 years instead of the 4 for college we have right now.
2012-12-11 01:46:52 AM
2 votes:
FTFA: "In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.

Ramsey says it was a good deal, because his district is getting a brand-new $25 million school. "You'd take that any day," he says. "Why would you leave $25 million on the table? You would never leave $25 million on the table.""


Why would I leave $25 million on the table, Mr. Charles Ramsay?

I'd leave $25 million on the table if I had to pay $34 million to pick it up.

You are not "getting" a brand-new $25 million school. You are "PAYING $34 million to get a $25 million school".

There is no possible way that doing so makes sense, and you are an idiot for trying to pretend it does.
2012-12-11 01:42:19 AM
2 votes:
Property taxes pay for public schools.
California is the second hardest hit state in the housing crash.
2012-12-11 01:35:30 AM
2 votes:
Credit is basically destroying this country's foundations...just wait till the real sh-t hits the fan...we haven't even begun.
2012-12-11 01:34:05 AM
2 votes:
School Districts are not running low on money, they are running low on common sense.

They build multi-million dollar sports complexes and pay millions in copying charges for gods sake.

Our local school district is DEAD LAST in our state, yet it spends more money than every other district int he state but one, over $15,000 per student per year.

That means by the time they graduate we have spent $180,000 on their k-12 education. Its insane.

The School District defends its policy of social advancement, sending children on from 3rd grade who cannot read at grade level. They claim to graduate 85% of their students, but they only count the ones who make it to Senior Year. They actually lose 50% of the students between freshman and senior years. Of those 85%, only 5% are certified ready for higher education or work without remedial training. They graduated, but they cannot do basic algebra or write intelligent reports. (intelligible)

We tried to get a new school board elected this last election, first time in 20 years they have been challenged from the outside. In the last 20 years every single school board member has been either picked by our local democratic party or is a former member of the school administration. They have wasted three quarters of a billion dollars on results that decline every single year for the last 20.

The single worst place you can put your children around here is the public school system, but because there is a 50 million dollar budget and unlimited taxation authority, the Democrats simply will not let it go. They even managed to recall a special ballot for a retiring member after one of our candidates was the only person to file to run in the special election.

It had literally not happened in anyones memory, they assumed there would be an appointment by the state department of education like always. So when our guy was the only one there, they put pressure on the County Clerk to recall the ballot, then had the state education director say that the election couldn't be held because the resignation wasn't accepted for 21 days......one day longer than the filing deadline. They went so far to ignore the fact that the information they used to deny the election WASNT AVAILABLE UNTIL AFTER THE BALLOTS HAD BEEN PRINTED.

They literally sat there with straight faces and said that information after the fact justified the actions taken before the fact. Which is a good thing for them, otherwise what they did would be illegal under state law. But the Governor is a democrat so go figure there was no interest in an investigation into the matter.


Blame your local school board if your schools owe a billion dollars, but good luck getting rid of them.
2012-12-11 01:26:23 AM
2 votes:
Yay, democrat math!
2012-12-11 12:54:52 AM
2 votes:

simplicimus: vygramul: simplicimus: In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.
Who are they borrowing from? Loan Sharks?

[charlesmobley.files.wordpress.com image 800x486]

Just wow.


Yeah - we get those ads here in VA. I never paid them much mind until I noticed the numbers in the fine print.
2012-12-11 12:26:57 AM
2 votes:
"We'd be foolish not to take advantage of getting $25 million" when the district had to spend just $2.5 million to get it, Ramsey says. "The only way we could do it was with a [capital appreciation bond]."
...
Ramsey says it was a good deal, because his district is getting a brand-new $25 million school. "You'd take that any day," he says. "Why would you leave $25 million on the table? You would never leave $25 million on the table."


god i hate people sometimes.
2012-12-11 09:21:16 AM
1 votes:
This is why people should not vote for Obama and Democrats.

Same thing is happening with the country folks.
2012-12-11 08:45:33 AM
1 votes:

Nhojwolfe: Its the state,
Tell the lender to f off we are giving the original amount of money back with a 10 percent cap of interest. Get all the courts to agree. Watch the lenders cry about not being fair.

//watch no one win..
//its all for the kids


Here's the problem, the school district entered into the contract willingly. The courts tend to back what is in writing, so the courts are actually more apt to back the lenders than the school district. Which is actually a good thing for two reasons. One, it should set an example as to why governing bodies shouldn't go to payday lender type places for loans. Instead, should do something smarter, like budget the money that they actually have. And second, if the courts did rule that contracts with governing bodies could become null and void or adjusted in the favor of the governing body, then any government contract becomes worthless. "Oh, that contract we gave your company to pay $100 million for you to do X. Well, you've done X, however, we got this precedent to not pay the contracts we willingly enter into, so instead of $100 million, here's a pack of Trident gum."
2012-12-11 07:51:34 AM
1 votes:
I know everyone is coming down hard on the school boards wasting so much money, but you have to understand how easy it is when it's not their money being spent.
2012-12-11 07:20:15 AM
1 votes:
www.philhendrieshow.com
"You think MY people got screwed over? It's payback time, motherfarkers."
2012-12-11 06:20:55 AM
1 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Jerry Brown, did use the ballot to get a tax hike in when the legislators refused to do it.

borg: Prop 13 protects middle class/retired/poorer home owners or people who inherit property If not for prop 13 property taxes here would be in six digits.


Yes and guess who it doesn't protect, poorer renters. Not to mention other states have programs that cap or postpone property tax increases on retired people, without a huge give away to corporation and the very wealthy. Both of whom are the actual beneficiaries of Prop 13.

Also, property tax tends to be around 2% per year, everywhere. So a six digit property tax bill implies a housing valuation of 5 million. Take Texas, the property tax rate in Texas is usually just over 2%, vs 1.25% in California. The other thing to remember is if you reduce property tax rates, that doesn't actually make housing more affordable because prices rise to compensate. So housing prices in California are probably 30% higher than they would be without Prop 13. And that also effects rents to.
2012-12-11 05:46:41 AM
1 votes:
California suffers from a lot if problems: the first of which: too much democracy.

The legislators cannot do their jobs, because supermajority rules are in place for tax purposes. Prop 13, while protecting homeowners from loosing their houses due to tax reassessments- unfortunately did not keep up inflation.

And worse: you get something on the ballot- the state has to do it: even if no funding comes forth.

Jerry Brown, did use the ballot to get a tax hike in when the legislators refused to do it.
2012-12-11 04:01:37 AM
1 votes:
If you live in the affected area, become an involved citizen - smartvoter dot org provides contact information for your local school board representatives, including the ones quoted in the article.
2012-12-11 03:30:25 AM
1 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: Many of you who biatch about the stupidity of public schools seem to forget that the teachers are never in charge of education. It's always dumbasses YOU elect. I have never met a smart school board member. Ever.

If teachers were actually in charge, things might be a lot different.


In theory, an interesting proposal. But thanks to NCLB, teachers are limited to teaching to the test.
2012-12-11 03:27:14 AM
1 votes:
Many of you who biatch about the stupidity of public schools seem to forget that the teachers are never in charge of education. It's always dumbasses YOU elect. I have never met a smart school board member. Ever.

If teachers were actually in charge, things might be a lot different.
2012-12-11 03:20:44 AM
1 votes:

cman: That only works if you elect those who, you know, actually have discipline needed to stop pet projects. Prop 13 without fiscal discipline was prone to failure from the start. We Americans like nice things; we just don't want to pay for it


Before Prop 13 if a school district needed more revenue, say to pay for a bond, or operating expenses they'd put a tax measure on the ballot and it required 50% of the voters to approve it. Maybe the voters would pass it, maybe they wouldn't. Either way the district has some control over revenue.

Then comes Prop 13. First off it gives the cranky pants brigade veto power over any tax measure. And froze assessed values to 1976 prices and limited any increase to well below inflation, except when the property changes hands. This applies to both residential housing and commercial property. The latter case it interesting, in California when people buy commercial property they usually buy the corporation that owns the property, thus the property never gets reassessed.

So due to inflation and prop 13 over time your effective tax bill declines due to inflation. $500 in 1978 is worth about $200 in 2012. $500 is the property tax bill my dad pays every six months. The neighbors with a bigger house next door pay $5000.

Oh and you inherit the tax break with the property. So if your parents bought a house in 1976, and they and you inherit it, then you keep the original 1976 era assessment. (I remember a comment about a mansion in SF worth $25 million, that has a tax assessment of $400k)
2012-12-11 03:00:54 AM
1 votes:
And people gave me shiat for voting against every bond issue in November.

Guess what? We have to pay that money back.
2012-12-11 02:55:12 AM
1 votes:

feckingmorons: It seems like there should be another solution, but they probably legislated themselves into a corner by limiting class size, requiring so many square feet of football pitch per student, and other very nice, but not essential things.


The voters in 1978 passed Prop 13, which is pretty much the source of all this mess. Listening to my fellow Californians when this passed the consensus was if you limit the amount of money the government can raise then they'll spend the money they do have wisely. And if you've ever seen how poor people spend money, you'd be dissuaded of that notion pretty quick. Because poor people do exactly the sorts of things that the school districts in California do. Rob from the future to pay for the present.
2012-12-11 02:35:36 AM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Don't you people understand? When the government spends money it stimulates the economy. Just ask Krugman.


That's actually true. The problem here is that the government isn't actually spending money. It is taxing the poor and giving it to the rich (the bond holders). Only 100 million is actual spending. The other 900 million is simply a reverse wealth transfer.
2012-12-11 02:12:08 AM
1 votes:
I could have sworn the Bay was "just East of San Francisco"
2012-12-11 02:00:56 AM
1 votes:
Considering the asshole contingent in this state is holding on to prop13 (the one that totally farked how schools were supposed to be funded) like a fat kid to his last Twinkie, they may not have had any other choice.
When the landlord knocks at your door, you have two choices: get his money, or be homeless. And he doesn't care where or how you get his money, as long as you get it.
2012-12-11 02:00:37 AM
1 votes:

bromah: This seems more like internal corruption to me. Someone got a kick back to take out he loan. Besides, Western Sky is under investigation/indictment for usuary and fraud.


Serious question:How can the US government act against a sovereign nation?
2012-12-11 01:50:19 AM
1 votes:
FTHL :

Why we need a California tag:

California schools districts taking loans that are "the equivalent of payday loans." One district now owes more than $1 billion on a loan of $100 million.

Way to go.


professional smart people

HLOTY
2012-12-11 01:49:30 AM
1 votes:
It could have been worse, in the TRILLIONS if they had have bought desks, chairs, and computers as well from

i30.photobucket.com
2012-12-11 01:46:28 AM
1 votes:
images.bbgsite.com

California: Nope!
2012-12-11 01:45:07 AM
1 votes:
"We'd be foolish not to take advantage of getting $25 million" when the district had to spend just $2.5 million to get it, Ramsey says. "The only way we could do it was with a [capital appreciation bond]."

It would be foolish not to take advantage of getting $25 million when I had to spend just $2.5 million in advance for the wealth transfer fee, Moran says.

Am I the only one who thinks that deal sounds like a classic Nigerian scam? (I know I'm not.)
2012-12-11 01:40:51 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: simplicimus: vygramul: simplicimus: In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.
Who are they borrowing from? Loan Sharks?

[charlesmobley.files.wordpress.com image 800x486]

Just wow.

Yeah - we get those ads here in VA. I never paid them much mind until I noticed the numbers in the fine print.


I swear this is true: A illegal stole this guys identity and paid off half his debt. he was like "fark it I'll wait 4 more years before reporting it"
2012-12-11 01:31:29 AM
1 votes:
I think somebody failed middle school math.
2012-12-11 01:05:50 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: simplicimus: vygramul: simplicimus: In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.
Who are they borrowing from? Loan Sharks?

[charlesmobley.files.wordpress.com image 800x486]

Just wow.

Yeah - we get those ads here in VA. I never paid them much mind until I noticed the numbers in the fine print.


We get those ads here in TX as well. That's a lot of vig.
2012-12-11 12:53:06 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: simplicimus: In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.
Who are they borrowing from? Loan Sharks?

[charlesmobley.files.wordpress.com image 800x486]


Just wow.
2012-12-11 12:45:42 AM
1 votes:
In the West Contra Costa Schools' case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.
Who are they borrowing from? Loan Sharks?
2012-12-10 11:27:36 PM
1 votes:
I was going to blame some of this on assholes who don't have to worry about re-election by the time the bonds are due and get to live high on public adoration in the meantime. However, the guy they spoke to is a moron.
2012-12-10 09:18:32 PM
1 votes:
It's California, they can just raise taxes to get that money back.
2012-12-10 09:12:21 PM
1 votes:
Lol public schooling
 
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