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(C|Net)   Australia police discourage use of Apple maps so motorists won't Darwin themselves   (news.cnet.com) divider line 70
    More: Obvious, Australia, Scott Forstall, national parks, mobile apps, low points, maps app  
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3137 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2012-12-10 10:05:53 AM
There was an interesting explanation in the related thread on Slashdot that seems to point to the cause:
The root cause of this, and many of the other errors in city location observed throughout Australia, is actually quite simple and I don't know why Apple haven't fixed it yet. It was a bit of a facepalm moment when I realised what was actually going on with the Australian maps on iOS6.

Basically there are two problems:

1. Apple Maps is marking the centre of local government areas (analogous to a county, for American readers) as a point location, rather than a name for a large area of land (i.e. it's treating them as locations you can navigate to); and

2. In the case that a search query matches both a local government area name, AND a town name ... it preferences the local government area (which as mentioned, is being mapped as an exact point roughly in the middle of the area, generally in the middle of nowhere)

For example, follow the Hume Highway south from Sydney a little way and you will see a point marked as Wingecaribee, east of the highway, roughly in the vicinity of where the town of Moss Vale is (though, as noted, the GUI chooses to display Wingecaribee prominently, but doesn't mark Moss Vale or any other towns at all, unless you zoom in really close). The point marked as Wingecaribee is just a random spot in rugged forested terrain. Nothing's actually there. This is simply the centre of the Wingecaribee Shire. But there is no actual town called Wingecaribee so apart from looking weird, this doesn't hurt anything.

BUT ... keep following the highway south and you will soon come to the next shire, Goulburn Shire. Again, the centre of this local government area is marked as a point, called "Goulburn" and again, it's not anywhere near anything. It's in the middle of some random farmer's field somewhere. BUT THIS TIME, we have a problem, because within Goulburn Shire, there is actually also a town called Goulburn. But if you search for 'Goulburn', you are directed to the centre of the Goulburn Shire, NOT the town. This is completely retarded, as noone ever searches for things by local government area name in Australia (many people don't even know the name of their LGA ... they aren't as prominently known as counties in the US), and even if they did, wouldn't want to be directed to some arbitrary point near the middle of it with no regard for whether there's anything there.

This is what has happened in TFA too. There is a Mildura local government area. Within that, there is also a city called Mildura. But the city isn't marked; only the centre of the LGA. Which as stated, is in the middle of bloody nowhere.

Basically whoever processed the Australian mapping data has interpreted LGA (shire, county etc.) names as locality (town, city) names. And has given them prominence in both display and search results over actual localities. Should be simple to fix, surely. The data is there - it's just being used incorrectly.


I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?
 
2012-12-10 11:23:35 AM
So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?
 
2012-12-10 11:24:37 AM
Where have I seen something similar?

remote.lohudblogs.com
 
2012-12-10 11:24:46 AM
In which the term "to Darwin" refers to ending up in that shiathole?
 
2012-12-10 11:25:16 AM
Is Apple's map app really that bad? I don't use a map app much, so I can't really judge. I have played with Apple's new map app and I was surprised at how much more accurate the GPS is. Google Maps could get me in my neighborhood, but only rarely within a block of my house. Apple's not only places me at my house, but on the correct side of it, if I'm out in the yard. So I'm guessing the main problem is poor map metadata?
 
2012-12-10 11:27:58 AM
A few weeks ago I asked Apple Maps to direct me to the IKEA in Elizabeth, NJ. It directed me to the end of a dead-end street, underneath an overpass, a good five miles away from the IKEA, and then cheerfully informed me that I had arrived at my destination. That was pretty sketchy.

I like the new iOS, but since then, we've been relying on my wife's Android phone for GPS navigation. Apple Maps simply was released half-baked and not ready for primetime. Very un-Apple-like to release such a shoddy product.
 
2012-12-10 11:33:13 AM

Doc Daneeka: A few weeks ago I asked Apple Maps to direct me to the IKEA in Elizabeth, NJ. It directed me to the end of a dead-end street, underneath an overpass, a good five miles away from the IKEA, and then cheerfully informed me that I had arrived at my destination. That was pretty sketchy.

I like the new iOS, but since then, we've been relying on my wife's Android phone for GPS navigation. Apple Maps simply was released half-baked and not ready for primetime. Very un-Apple-like to release such a shoddy product.


I find it odd how Steve had an intense hatred of Google for various reasons, but even he was smart enough not to dump Google maps on the device. It was his successors who did it in a horribly half assed fashion.

/come on Apple just admit the farkup and release an update where you can select Apple or google maps
 
2012-12-10 11:33:44 AM
The GPS is there to help out your trip planning. You're supposed to verify the route, the destinations, etc. And for Christ's sake people, read the road signs along the way.
 
2012-12-10 11:34:35 AM

Doc Daneeka: A few weeks ago I asked Apple Maps to direct me to the IKEA in Elizabeth, NJ. It directed me to the end of a dead-end street, underneath an overpass, a good five miles away from the IKEA, and then cheerfully informed me that I had arrived at my destination. That was pretty sketchy.

I like the new iOS, but since then, we've been relying on my wife's Android phone for GPS navigation. Apple Maps simply was released half-baked and not ready for primetime. Very un-Apple-like to release such a shoddy product.


There's an application called GPS Drive, which is quite good. It's free, but they want to to pay them $$ for the voice direction (you get it as a trial for 30 days). As I posted earlier, I don't use map apps much. But I did put Apple's to the test by asking it to route me from home to my house in the mountains. It selected two appropriate routes and both were accurate. Positioning was dead on the whole trip. I think Apple's app will get better. I remember everyone leveling the same criticisms against Google when their map app was new and today it's solid.
 
2012-12-10 11:35:26 AM
Subby, don't Tazman me, you devil.
 
2012-12-10 11:36:06 AM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


How about Essex, Massachusetts?
 
2012-12-10 11:36:13 AM
Anyone travelling to Mildura or other locations within Victoria should rely on other forms of mapping until this matter is rectified," the police concluded.


At least it didn't send them to Miranda
 
2012-12-10 11:43:01 AM

hogans: Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

How about Essex, Massachusetts?


Where does it tell you "Jacksonville, FL" is?
 
2012-12-10 11:44:24 AM

ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?


You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).
 
2012-12-10 11:44:58 AM
That's downright esoteric, subs.

/unless you're really into operating systems
 
2012-12-10 11:45:26 AM
it's a feature.
 
2012-12-10 11:46:03 AM

BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).


New here, huh? It 's a "thing" to deliberately confuse the two.
 
2012-12-10 11:47:15 AM

Russ1642: The GPS is there to help out your trip planning. You're supposed to verify the route, the destinations, etc. And for Christ's sake people, read the road signs along the way.


You'd be shocked at just how many young people today wouldn't even know where to start. I know a few people who, if you took their smartphone or tablet away from them, they'd instantly panic and become helpless. They can't be blamed, though. They have grown up being taught to depend on technology instead of their intellect and they were never taught basic skills.
 
2012-12-10 11:47:41 AM

BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).


Upon checking your profile, you are most decidedly *not* new here. Maybe you just don't come around as often.

It's a very stupid meme.
 
2012-12-10 11:47:46 AM

hogans: Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

How about Essex, Massachusetts?


Looks to be northwest of South Hamilton, between Highland and Bay, so too far west.

Mr Guy: Where does it tell you "Jacksonville, FL" is?


Right downtown. But, it looks like that's also the center of Jacksonville county.
 
2012-12-10 11:48:01 AM

ha-ha-guy: /come on Apple just admit the farkup and release an update where you can select Apple or google maps


This. Time for a little humility.

Won't hurt for too long, will do a lot to enhance your reputation, since everyone pretty much knows you farked up.
 
2012-12-10 11:49:22 AM

aagrajag: BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).

New here, huh? It 's a "thing" to deliberately confuse the two.


Might want to re-read that paragraph.
 
2012-12-10 11:49:35 AM

Temporarily Qualmless: ha-ha-guy: /come on Apple just admit the farkup and release an update where you can select Apple or google maps

This. Time for a little humility.


Part of the problem there is that Google wasn't updating the Maps app, while they were providing tons of updates on Android.
 
2012-12-10 11:50:08 AM

Theaetetus: anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


In Kansas, there is a county called Wichita near the Colorado border. The city of Wichita is in Sedgwick county, in south-central Kansas. There is also a city called Sedgwick which is in Harvey county.
 
2012-12-10 11:50:32 AM
I still refuse to update the iOs on my phone because of this bullshiat. It's starting to become extremely inconvenient as more and more apps are requiring the latest version to install properly

/may be time to finally jailbreak the thing
 
2012-12-10 11:50:57 AM
NavFree works great on both iOS and Android. Just download the maps for where you're going and you're done.
 
2012-12-10 11:51:41 AM
BigLuca ==== -n00b-
 
2012-12-10 11:51:57 AM

jspenguin: Theaetetus: anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

In Kansas, there is a county called Wichita near the Colorado border. The city of Wichita is in Sedgwick county, in south-central Kansas. There is also a city called Sedgwick which is in Harvey county.


Huh. Both Wichita and Sedgwick land properly on their cities.
 
2012-12-10 11:52:03 AM

pastorkius: aagrajag: BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).

New here, huh? It 's a "thing" to deliberately confuse the two.

Might want to re-read that paragraph.


Oh, Christ, I feel stupid now.

//drinking
///shochu
////a lot

*skulks away in shame*
 
2012-12-10 11:52:39 AM

mark12A: BigLuca ==== -n00b-


Got you too, eh?
 
2012-12-10 11:52:39 AM

aagrajag: BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).

Upon checking your profile, you are most decidedly *not* new here. Maybe you just don't come around as often.

It's a very stupid meme.


I play up that meme at almost every opportunity and there is always someone that doesn't get it and tries to "correct" me. I just wanted to see how the other half lived for once.
 
2012-12-10 11:53:04 AM

Theaetetus: hogans: Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

How about Essex, Massachusetts?

Looks to be northwest of South Hamilton, between Highland and Bay, so too far west.

Mr Guy: Where does it tell you "Jacksonville, FL" is?

Right downtown. But, it looks like that's also the center of Jacksonville county.


Not sure how precise this issue is, but both the center and northern boundary of Los Angeles, California appear to substantially south of the center of Los Angeles County. However, there appear to be some outlying islands included, in which case the center of the county might be on the coast.
 
2012-12-10 11:56:32 AM

BigLuca: aagrajag: BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).

Upon checking your profile, you are most decidedly *not* new here. Maybe you just don't come around as often.

It's a very stupid meme.

I play up that meme at almost every opportunity and there is always someone that doesn't get it and tries to "correct" me. I just wanted to see how the other half lived for once.


I read the first sentence and just assumed... Yeah, I should read more carefully.

You got me. I owe you a beer if you ever find yourself in Nagano.
 
2012-12-10 11:56:51 AM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Matagorda, TX is along the coast and a solid 15-20 miles SE of the center of Matagorda County.

Then, of course, there's Austin, Houston, Crockett, and Milam Counties, not one of which is anywhere close to the city that shares its name.
 
2012-12-10 11:57:32 AM

ha-ha-guy: Doc Daneeka: A few weeks ago I asked Apple Maps to direct me to the IKEA in Elizabeth, NJ. It directed me to the end of a dead-end street, underneath an overpass, a good five miles away from the IKEA, and then cheerfully informed me that I had arrived at my destination. That was pretty sketchy.

I like the new iOS, but since then, we've been relying on my wife's Android phone for GPS navigation. Apple Maps simply was released half-baked and not ready for primetime. Very un-Apple-like to release such a shoddy product.

I find it odd how Steve had an intense hatred of Google for various reasons, but even he was smart enough not to dump Google maps on the device. It was his successors who did it in a horribly half assed fashion.

/come on Apple just admit the farkup and release an update where you can select Apple or google maps


Apple has already fired a couple of senior people over the subject. No word on when it will be fixed though.

I think mapping was a subject that Apple wasn't quite cognizent of the depth and breadth of the subject. Everyone admits that MapQuest and Googlemaps had issues when they were first released. Google has had ten years to revise and improve their maps and add some really nice features. Google maps is rarely wrong and gets most of the weird merges and roadway crap in the Boston area correct (not perfect but pretty good).

Apple is now having to play serious catchup. Their maps are clearly inferior and I don't trust them. Plus they are missing features I had come to depend on (mass transit, walking routes, bike routes).
 
2012-12-10 11:57:55 AM

Theaetetus: hogans: Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

How about Essex, Massachusetts?

Looks to be northwest of South Hamilton, between Highland and Bay, so too far west.

Mr Guy: Where does it tell you "Jacksonville, FL" is?

Right downtown. But, it looks like that's also the center of Jacksonville county.


I was curious if the water would throw off the geography of it. I've definitely seen maps that label Jacksonville as being mid-bay/lake/harbor, whatever that water is considered.
 
2012-12-10 11:58:49 AM

StrangeQ: I still refuse to update the iOs on my phone because of this bullshiat. It's starting to become extremely inconvenient as more and more apps are requiring the latest version to install properly

/may be time to finally jailbreak the thing


That may be really hard. The most recent iphones and iOS6 have not gotten past tethered jailbreaks.
 
2012-12-10 12:03:56 PM
Right now, somebody out there is trying to come up with a plan to have Apple Maps fark him over and give him grounds for an 8 digit lawsuit.

Here's hoping he succeeds.
 
2012-12-10 12:04:56 PM

aagrajag:
You got me. I owe you a beer if you ever find yourself in Nagano.


Well, I don't think I'll ever travel to China, but if I do I'll take you up on that beer!

:-P
 
2012-12-10 12:09:05 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Right now, somebody out there is trying to come up with a plan to have Apple Maps fark him over and give him grounds for an 8 digit lawsuit.

Here's hoping he succeeds.


Online maps have been around for 15 years, and GPS units for 8-10. I'd think we've all but exhausted the possibilities - isn't there already tons of precedent (from MapQuest, mostly, I'd wager) that you can't sue based on directions? That and the fine print (which isn't iron-clad, as we all know) that says they make no promises about the directions.
 
2012-12-10 12:09:48 PM

BigLuca: aagrajag:
You got me. I owe you a beer if you ever find yourself in Nagano.

Well, I don't think I'll ever travel to China, but if I do I'll take you up on that beer!

:-P


Iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg
 
2012-12-10 12:12:25 PM
The five northern stations along the Red Line on the DC metro were closed this weekend, so I had to drive to the Fort Totten metro station to catch the metro. The POS Apple Map showed 'no results' for that search so instead I headed towards Fort Totten Park (which it miraculously found), then looked for Metro station signs from there. Same issue in NYC a few weeks ago with the subway stations and not being able to find them easily.

It's ridiculous that it's been at least a couple months and we're still dealing with this shiat. I've been having problems with the maps for a while now and since I travel for work, I need the maps to be accurate.

I've given up and I'm now waiting for Jelly Bean to be the native install on the Galaxy SIII and I'm jumping ship. At least I'll get my precious Google Maps back.

\I submitted this with a better headline
 
2012-12-10 12:14:02 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Bmore, and some towns (even smaller ones) in Va.
 
2012-12-10 12:17:49 PM

aagrajag: BigLuca: aagrajag: BigLuca: ThunderChild: So they're having problems with finding strangers in the Alps?

You are mixing up Australia with Austria, which seems to be a common mistake for some reason. One has Barbies and boxing kangaroos and the other has leather pants and Hitlers. They both start with "Austr", but one ends quickly with a "ia" and the other kinda stretches out. They have similar names because Austrailia was settled by prisoners from Austria and they wanted to make it feel like home, but that was a long time ago (in the BC era) so they people evolved over generations to become shrunken dark dudes with bones in their noses and no shirts (or "Outbacks") to better survive the harsh desert like conditions. And finally, Australia is almost twice the size of Austria and about 1,000 miles away (in any direction cause it's on the other side of the Earth).

Upon checking your profile, you are most decidedly *not* new here. Maybe you just don't come around as often.

It's a very stupid meme.

I play up that meme at almost every opportunity and there is always someone that doesn't get it and tries to "correct" me. I just wanted to see how the other half lived for once.

I read the first sentence and just assumed... Yeah, I should read more carefully.

You got me. I owe you a beer if you ever find yourself in Nagano.


I wouldn't mind finding myself in Nagano
 
2012-12-10 12:22:31 PM
Australia police discourage use of Apple maps so motorists won't Darwin themselves

So you're saying someone's lost? We need to find someone? We'll figure out who it is quick enough - just tell me who hasn't been seen for a while. Who's long gone?
 
2012-12-10 12:26:49 PM

Bermuda59: Anyone travelling to Mildura or other locations within Victoria should rely on other forms of mapping until this matter is rectified," the police concluded.


At least it didn't send them to Miranda


Cant, its not on any of the charts.
 
2012-12-10 12:34:35 PM
Get Waze!
GPS + police trap + Hazards + auto traffic rerouting + free
 
2012-12-10 12:39:43 PM

It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.

Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."
 
2012-12-10 12:40:59 PM

Random Discord: Bermuda59: Anyone travelling to Mildura or other locations within Victoria should rely on other forms of mapping until this matter is rectified," the police concluded.


At least it didn't send them to Miranda

Cant, its not on any of the charts.


And it's a colony for crazies.
 
2012-12-10 12:52:24 PM

aagrajag: BigLuca: aagrajag:
You got me. I owe you a beer if you ever find yourself in Nagano.

Well, I don't think I'll ever travel to China, but if I do I'll take you up on that beer!

:-P

Iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg


Can I ask you a Japanese language question? The Japanese calligraphy that you see on scrolls and wall hangings, someone once told me that it's actually Chinese, is that true?
 
2012-12-10 01:00:04 PM

Bermuda59: Anyone travelling to Mildura or other locations within Victoria should rely on other forms of mapping until this matter is rectified," the police concluded.


At least it didn't send them to Miranda


They would have never made it past the Reavers.
 
2012-12-10 01:10:17 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Check San Bernardino, the largest single county in the continental United States and probably one of the best examples of the county/city issue described.

San Bernardino the city is in the extreme southwest corner of the county, which starts at point about 50 miles east of Los Angeles and covers the entire area north about 150 miles and then east to the borders of Nevada and Arizona. A Google search for 'San Bernardino' brings up the city itself as the primary result, with a map of the city and a marker in the civic center where most of the major government buildings are located. No idea what happens with Apple Maps, nobody in the immediate area has an iPhone with the new OS.
 
2012-12-10 01:19:32 PM

BStorm: Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

Check San Bernardino, the largest single county in the continental United States and probably one of the best examples of the county/city issue described.

San Bernardino the city is in the extreme southwest corner of the county, which starts at point about 50 miles east of Los Angeles and covers the entire area north about 150 miles and then east to the borders of Nevada and Arizona. A Google search for 'San Bernardino' brings up the city itself as the primary result, with a map of the city and a marker in the civic center where most of the major government buildings are located. No idea what happens with Apple Maps, nobody in the immediate area has an iPhone with the new OS.


Apple's map shows it in the Kelso Dunes Wilderness due north of Ludlow and east of Barstow. I think that's probably the problem.
 
2012-12-10 01:27:32 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Pennsylvania:

The city of Chester is in Delaware County. West Chester is in eastern Chester County.

In Michigan, the city of Monroe is on the eastern edge of Monroe County. Mackinac County contains neither Mackinac Island nor the city of Mackinaw (same pronunciation).
 
2012-12-10 01:39:30 PM
GEEK HUMOR IS FUNNY
 
2012-12-10 02:42:38 PM

Doc Daneeka: A few weeks ago I asked Apple Maps to direct me to the IKEA in Elizabeth, NJ. It directed me to the end of a dead-end street, underneath an overpass, a good five miles away from the IKEA, and then cheerfully informed me that I had arrived at my destination. That was pretty sketchy.

I like the new iOS, but since then, we've been relying on my wife's Android phone for GPS navigation. Apple Maps simply was released half-baked and not ready for primetime. Very un-Apple-like to release such a shoddy product.


You clearly haven't been a user for the first 4 models / years.

Off the top of my head:
- No MMS (which even feature phones had)
- Popup notifications (weren't those "banned" on webpages like 8 years ago for being a bad user experience?)
- Cut/copy/paste (2 years)
- Antenna-gate.
- Who makes things that can easily be dropped out of glass on both sides? You're just asking for trouble.

etc.
 
2012-12-10 02:51:32 PM

BullBearMS: It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.
Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."


Some magical system is suppose to know which roads are usable and which aren't? The navigation route would have taken you to their destination had they not gotten stuck.

The issue at hand in this article is that they're being navigated to a point that dosen't exist. This is two, totally different problems.


Also, what's "Google Earth Maps"? I've never used that for navigation.
 
2012-12-10 02:52:52 PM

SleepingEye: - Popup notifications (weren't those "banned" on webpages like 8 years ago for being a bad user experience?)


Those made me want to hurl my wife's iPhone through a window. I'd be typing away and all of a sudden it would pop up and disrupt what I'm doing. I'm halfway through entering a password and some popup farking interrupts me.

/finally moved my wife to an Android
 
2012-12-10 03:01:47 PM

SleepingEye: The issue at hand in this article is that they're being navigated to a point that dosen't exist. This is two, totally different problems.


Yes. It appears that the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality.

Completely different.

Also, Google refused to correct the data for a year despite every effort on the part of the Park Rangers, so there's that.
 
2012-12-10 03:22:17 PM

The articles all go on about the threat to human life of getting lost in country NSW, but they don't go into

upload.wikimedia.org

specifics.
 
2012-12-10 03:46:00 PM

JackieRabbit: Is Apple's map app really that bad? I don't use a map app much, so I can't really judge. I have played with Apple's new map app and I was surprised at how much more accurate the GPS is. Google Maps could get me in my neighborhood, but only rarely within a block of my house. Apple's not only places me at my house, but on the correct side of it, if I'm out in the yard. So I'm guessing the main problem is poor map metadata?


Apple Maps uses TeleAtlas (TomTom) data, which in my opinion is utter trash. Most online maps use Navteq (Garmin) data which while not perfect, is infinitely better.

A few years back Google dropped Navteq for TeleAtlas and signed a 5 year deal with them. Their maps were so bad, I nearly stopped using them altogether in favour of Bing and Mapquest. Fortunately Google realized this fairly quickly and cancelled their contract about a year in in favour of using their own data collected from Street View.

TeleAtlas was given a second chance at the big time with Apple, and they dropped the ball badly.

/though despite what some say, Apple's 3D maps are for better than Google Earth though
 
2012-12-10 04:14:58 PM
A good example for how far off Apple maps are is this one. Look up Chardon, Ohio. It shows the town to be north of US 6 on Rt. 608. Actually, the town of Chardon is at the intersection of RT44 and RT6, some 3.5 miles to the south west. Thats a pretty substantial error, and a pathetic one at that.
 
2012-12-10 04:21:09 PM

BullBearMS: SleepingEye: The issue at hand in this article is that they're being navigated to a point that dosen't exist. This is two, totally different problems.

Yes. It appears that the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality.


Umm, no. Google Maps had nothing to so with the death. The woman and child in question had been following the directions from their in-car GPS, and Google was definitely not supplying data for those types of systems in 2009. In fact given the state of most in-car navigation systems even today, the maps she had been following were likely at least a year out of date.

On top of that, she had driven off the marked and paved road about 20 miles on an acknowledged rough trail, and even drove over some bushes and rocks that were blocking the trail (which was effectively just old tire tracks by that point) where she eventually got stuck.

Also, Google refused to correct the data for a year despite every effort on the part of the Park Rangers, so there's that.

There's a huge difference between 'Refused to correct the data' and 'Didn't get to it in a timely manner because they were updating their entire database'. There's also a difference between 'every effort on the part of the Park Rangers' and 'one person sending in reports using the automated feedback system'. Shortly after the deaths occured Google stopped using Tele Atlas as their map provider and began using their own map database, which probably contributed to the delay in updating their information.

Beyond all of that, it's still up to the person in question to use their own judgement when it comes to following ANY maps to locations that they're not familiar with. I feel sorry for the woman who lost her son, but had she turned back after losing a tire or even just checked with the local park ranger's office before the trip the whole tragedy might have been avoided.
 
2012-12-10 04:32:29 PM
 
2012-12-10 05:28:39 PM

BullBearMS: It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.
Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."


That's weird. By chance, I found a little cul-de-sac in Georgia that wasn't in Google Maps. I told them, and they updated it a week or two later.
 
2012-12-10 05:29:29 PM

BullBearMS: BStorm: Umm, no. Google Maps had nothing to so with the death.

Umm, yes. Google's Maps had the exact same fatal issue as the GPS unit this woman was using.


There's absolutely nothing in TFA or in the quotes you used to indicate that Google Maps was using the same exact database information, that the entire Park Rangers service was involved in trying to contact Google, or that they ignored the attempts to have the maps corrected.

The only things you can gather from the statements you quoted yourself (without making something up from your imagination) are that there were errors in Google's Map data for the Death Valley area, the person trying to contact them never spoke to someone from their mapping department in person, and that it took longer for them to correct the errors than it did for TomTom.

For all you know their maps had correct information showing that specific road was not in service but other information was incorrect; there's simply nothing in the article or in any other accounts I can find to indicate either way. The failure to respond directly to the ONE RANGER'S requests to correct whatever bad data was present was unprofessional but in no way an indicator that they were ignoring anything; they may have already been in the process of correcting the data on their own, as they had just canceled the contract of the data provider who had been supplying them with information and were updating their database using other sources.

Furthermore, your statement was "It appears the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality". That statement as it is worded looks like a claim that Google's maps being incorrect directly led to the fatality. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure a statement like that could be considered defamatory. Using 'It appears' might give some wiggle room in a court of law, but the statement taken as a whole seems to accuse Google of being responsible.

If you're looking for a reason to bash Google there are plenty of others that have basis in actual fact and don't require making unfounded assumptions.
 
2012-12-10 10:15:15 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Alameda, CA.
 
2012-12-11 12:16:35 AM

BStorm: BullBearMS: BStorm: Umm, no. Google Maps had nothing to so with the death.

Umm, yes. Google's Maps had the exact same fatal issue as the GPS unit this woman was using.

There's absolutely nothing in TFA or in the quotes you used to indicate that Google Maps was using the same exact database information, that the entire Park Rangers service was involved in trying to contact Google, or that they ignored the attempts to have the maps corrected.

The only things you can gather from the statements you quoted yourself (without making something up from your imagination) are that there were errors in Google's Map data for the Death Valley area, the person trying to contact them never spoke to someone from their mapping department in person, and that it took longer for them to correct the errors than it did for TomTom.

For all you know their maps had correct information showing that specific road was not in service but other information was incorrect; there's simply nothing in the article or in any other accounts I can find to indicate either way. The failure to respond directly to the ONE RANGER'S requests to correct whatever bad data was present was unprofessional but in no way an indicator that they were ignoring anything; they may have already been in the process of correcting the data on their own, as they had just canceled the contract of the data provider who had been supplying them with information and were updating their database using other sources.

Furthermore, your statement was "It appears the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality". That statement as it is worded looks like a claim that Google's maps being incorrect directly led to the fatality. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure a statement like that could be considered defamatory. Using 'It appears' might give some wiggle room in a court of law, but the statement taken as a whole seems to accuse Google of being responsible.

If you're looking for a reason to bash Google there are plenty of others that ...


I wouldn't bother, he's a troll.
 
2012-12-11 03:47:41 AM
Running Apple Maps on the new Iphone will burn it up. Overheats the battery.
 
2012-12-12 02:35:59 PM

JohnAnnArbor: BullBearMS: It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.
Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."

That's weird. By chance, I found a little cul-de-sac in Georgia that wasn't in Google Maps. I told them, and they updated it a week or two later.


That has been my experience as well.
 
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