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(C|Net)   Australia police discourage use of Apple maps so motorists won't Darwin themselves   (news.cnet.com) divider line 70
    More: Obvious, Australia, Scott Forstall, national parks, mobile apps, low points, maps app  
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3131 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-10 01:00:04 PM

Bermuda59: Anyone travelling to Mildura or other locations within Victoria should rely on other forms of mapping until this matter is rectified," the police concluded.


At least it didn't send them to Miranda


They would have never made it past the Reavers.
 
2012-12-10 01:10:17 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Check San Bernardino, the largest single county in the continental United States and probably one of the best examples of the county/city issue described.

San Bernardino the city is in the extreme southwest corner of the county, which starts at point about 50 miles east of Los Angeles and covers the entire area north about 150 miles and then east to the borders of Nevada and Arizona. A Google search for 'San Bernardino' brings up the city itself as the primary result, with a map of the city and a marker in the civic center where most of the major government buildings are located. No idea what happens with Apple Maps, nobody in the immediate area has an iPhone with the new OS.
 
2012-12-10 01:19:32 PM

BStorm: Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?

Check San Bernardino, the largest single county in the continental United States and probably one of the best examples of the county/city issue described.

San Bernardino the city is in the extreme southwest corner of the county, which starts at point about 50 miles east of Los Angeles and covers the entire area north about 150 miles and then east to the borders of Nevada and Arizona. A Google search for 'San Bernardino' brings up the city itself as the primary result, with a map of the city and a marker in the civic center where most of the major government buildings are located. No idea what happens with Apple Maps, nobody in the immediate area has an iPhone with the new OS.


Apple's map shows it in the Kelso Dunes Wilderness due north of Ludlow and east of Barstow. I think that's probably the problem.
 
2012-12-10 01:27:32 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Pennsylvania:

The city of Chester is in Delaware County. West Chester is in eastern Chester County.

In Michigan, the city of Monroe is on the eastern edge of Monroe County. Mackinac County contains neither Mackinac Island nor the city of Mackinaw (same pronunciation).
 
2012-12-10 01:39:30 PM
GEEK HUMOR IS FUNNY
 
2012-12-10 02:42:38 PM

Doc Daneeka: A few weeks ago I asked Apple Maps to direct me to the IKEA in Elizabeth, NJ. It directed me to the end of a dead-end street, underneath an overpass, a good five miles away from the IKEA, and then cheerfully informed me that I had arrived at my destination. That was pretty sketchy.

I like the new iOS, but since then, we've been relying on my wife's Android phone for GPS navigation. Apple Maps simply was released half-baked and not ready for primetime. Very un-Apple-like to release such a shoddy product.


You clearly haven't been a user for the first 4 models / years.

Off the top of my head:
- No MMS (which even feature phones had)
- Popup notifications (weren't those "banned" on webpages like 8 years ago for being a bad user experience?)
- Cut/copy/paste (2 years)
- Antenna-gate.
- Who makes things that can easily be dropped out of glass on both sides? You're just asking for trouble.

etc.
 
2012-12-10 02:51:32 PM

BullBearMS: It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.
Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."


Some magical system is suppose to know which roads are usable and which aren't? The navigation route would have taken you to their destination had they not gotten stuck.

The issue at hand in this article is that they're being navigated to a point that dosen't exist. This is two, totally different problems.


Also, what's "Google Earth Maps"? I've never used that for navigation.
 
2012-12-10 02:52:52 PM

SleepingEye: - Popup notifications (weren't those "banned" on webpages like 8 years ago for being a bad user experience?)


Those made me want to hurl my wife's iPhone through a window. I'd be typing away and all of a sudden it would pop up and disrupt what I'm doing. I'm halfway through entering a password and some popup farking interrupts me.

/finally moved my wife to an Android
 
2012-12-10 03:01:47 PM

SleepingEye: The issue at hand in this article is that they're being navigated to a point that dosen't exist. This is two, totally different problems.


Yes. It appears that the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality.

Completely different.

Also, Google refused to correct the data for a year despite every effort on the part of the Park Rangers, so there's that.
 
2012-12-10 03:22:17 PM

The articles all go on about the threat to human life of getting lost in country NSW, but they don't go into

upload.wikimedia.org

specifics.
 
2012-12-10 03:46:00 PM

JackieRabbit: Is Apple's map app really that bad? I don't use a map app much, so I can't really judge. I have played with Apple's new map app and I was surprised at how much more accurate the GPS is. Google Maps could get me in my neighborhood, but only rarely within a block of my house. Apple's not only places me at my house, but on the correct side of it, if I'm out in the yard. So I'm guessing the main problem is poor map metadata?


Apple Maps uses TeleAtlas (TomTom) data, which in my opinion is utter trash. Most online maps use Navteq (Garmin) data which while not perfect, is infinitely better.

A few years back Google dropped Navteq for TeleAtlas and signed a 5 year deal with them. Their maps were so bad, I nearly stopped using them altogether in favour of Bing and Mapquest. Fortunately Google realized this fairly quickly and cancelled their contract about a year in in favour of using their own data collected from Street View.

TeleAtlas was given a second chance at the big time with Apple, and they dropped the ball badly.

/though despite what some say, Apple's 3D maps are for better than Google Earth though
 
2012-12-10 04:14:58 PM
A good example for how far off Apple maps are is this one. Look up Chardon, Ohio. It shows the town to be north of US 6 on Rt. 608. Actually, the town of Chardon is at the intersection of RT44 and RT6, some 3.5 miles to the south west. Thats a pretty substantial error, and a pathetic one at that.
 
2012-12-10 04:21:09 PM

BullBearMS: SleepingEye: The issue at hand in this article is that they're being navigated to a point that dosen't exist. This is two, totally different problems.

Yes. It appears that the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality.


Umm, no. Google Maps had nothing to so with the death. The woman and child in question had been following the directions from their in-car GPS, and Google was definitely not supplying data for those types of systems in 2009. In fact given the state of most in-car navigation systems even today, the maps she had been following were likely at least a year out of date.

On top of that, she had driven off the marked and paved road about 20 miles on an acknowledged rough trail, and even drove over some bushes and rocks that were blocking the trail (which was effectively just old tire tracks by that point) where she eventually got stuck.

Also, Google refused to correct the data for a year despite every effort on the part of the Park Rangers, so there's that.

There's a huge difference between 'Refused to correct the data' and 'Didn't get to it in a timely manner because they were updating their entire database'. There's also a difference between 'every effort on the part of the Park Rangers' and 'one person sending in reports using the automated feedback system'. Shortly after the deaths occured Google stopped using Tele Atlas as their map provider and began using their own map database, which probably contributed to the delay in updating their information.

Beyond all of that, it's still up to the person in question to use their own judgement when it comes to following ANY maps to locations that they're not familiar with. I feel sorry for the woman who lost her son, but had she turned back after losing a tire or even just checked with the local park ranger's office before the trip the whole tragedy might have been avoided.
 
2012-12-10 04:32:29 PM
 
2012-12-10 05:28:39 PM

BullBearMS: It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.
Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."


That's weird. By chance, I found a little cul-de-sac in Georgia that wasn't in Google Maps. I told them, and they updated it a week or two later.
 
2012-12-10 05:29:29 PM

BullBearMS: BStorm: Umm, no. Google Maps had nothing to so with the death.

Umm, yes. Google's Maps had the exact same fatal issue as the GPS unit this woman was using.


There's absolutely nothing in TFA or in the quotes you used to indicate that Google Maps was using the same exact database information, that the entire Park Rangers service was involved in trying to contact Google, or that they ignored the attempts to have the maps corrected.

The only things you can gather from the statements you quoted yourself (without making something up from your imagination) are that there were errors in Google's Map data for the Death Valley area, the person trying to contact them never spoke to someone from their mapping department in person, and that it took longer for them to correct the errors than it did for TomTom.

For all you know their maps had correct information showing that specific road was not in service but other information was incorrect; there's simply nothing in the article or in any other accounts I can find to indicate either way. The failure to respond directly to the ONE RANGER'S requests to correct whatever bad data was present was unprofessional but in no way an indicator that they were ignoring anything; they may have already been in the process of correcting the data on their own, as they had just canceled the contract of the data provider who had been supplying them with information and were updating their database using other sources.

Furthermore, your statement was "It appears the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality". That statement as it is worded looks like a claim that Google's maps being incorrect directly led to the fatality. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure a statement like that could be considered defamatory. Using 'It appears' might give some wiggle room in a court of law, but the statement taken as a whole seems to accuse Google of being responsible.

If you're looking for a reason to bash Google there are plenty of others that have basis in actual fact and don't require making unfounded assumptions.
 
2012-12-10 10:15:15 PM

Theaetetus: I wonder if we have the same problem in the states... anyone know of a name that's shared by a town and county where the town isn't in the center of the county?


Alameda, CA.
 
2012-12-11 12:16:35 AM

BStorm: BullBearMS: BStorm: Umm, no. Google Maps had nothing to so with the death.

Umm, yes. Google's Maps had the exact same fatal issue as the GPS unit this woman was using.

There's absolutely nothing in TFA or in the quotes you used to indicate that Google Maps was using the same exact database information, that the entire Park Rangers service was involved in trying to contact Google, or that they ignored the attempts to have the maps corrected.

The only things you can gather from the statements you quoted yourself (without making something up from your imagination) are that there were errors in Google's Map data for the Death Valley area, the person trying to contact them never spoke to someone from their mapping department in person, and that it took longer for them to correct the errors than it did for TomTom.

For all you know their maps had correct information showing that specific road was not in service but other information was incorrect; there's simply nothing in the article or in any other accounts I can find to indicate either way. The failure to respond directly to the ONE RANGER'S requests to correct whatever bad data was present was unprofessional but in no way an indicator that they were ignoring anything; they may have already been in the process of correcting the data on their own, as they had just canceled the contract of the data provider who had been supplying them with information and were updating their database using other sources.

Furthermore, your statement was "It appears the issue in Google's maps caused a fatality". That statement as it is worded looks like a claim that Google's maps being incorrect directly led to the fatality. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure a statement like that could be considered defamatory. Using 'It appears' might give some wiggle room in a court of law, but the statement taken as a whole seems to accuse Google of being responsible.

If you're looking for a reason to bash Google there are plenty of others that ...


I wouldn't bother, he's a troll.
 
2012-12-11 03:47:41 AM
Running Apple Maps on the new Iphone will burn it up. Overheats the battery.
 
2012-12-12 02:35:59 PM

JohnAnnArbor: BullBearMS: It could be much, much worse. One woman lost her six year old son after their GPS device led them onto an unusable road in Death Valley.

Death by GPS.

Oh, and the error that killed her son was present in Google Maps and the Park Ranger had a hell of a time getting them to correct it.
Lately, Callagan has been working with technology companies to remove closed and hazardous roads from their navigation databases - but with only partial success.

"I'm pulling my hair," he said. "I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated."

That's weird. By chance, I found a little cul-de-sac in Georgia that wasn't in Google Maps. I told them, and they updated it a week or two later.


That has been my experience as well.
 
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