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(CNN)   Stanford's two-year MBA price tag hits world record $185,000. Employment opportunities now just slightly better than medieval poetry majors   (management.fortune.cnn.com) divider line 41
    More: Asinine, MBA, MBA price tag, Wharton School, medieval poetry, Haas School of Business, business schools, Harvard Business School  
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893 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-10 10:34:22 AM
As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.
 
2012-12-10 10:52:53 AM

unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.


Are you using what you learned about the subject?
 
2012-12-10 11:26:56 AM
Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.

I know a couple of people who did undergrad at Stanford who were pulling 6 figures in their early 20's and much more now. Another of my friends did her MBA at Harvard. I'm sure an MBA from those schools would bring in the $300ks - I wouldn't be surprised if she makes that at least.

That being said it is still cheaper than an undergrad degree at NYU, which including housing is approx $50-60k/year.
 
2012-12-10 11:32:41 AM
I read that as "medieval pottery majors" which didn't change the context one iota. Yay dylsxiea!
 
2012-12-10 11:37:52 AM

Lollipop165: Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.

I know a couple of people who did undergrad at Stanford who were pulling 6 figures in their early 20's and much more now. Another of my friends did her MBA at Harvard. I'm sure an MBA from those schools would bring in the $300ks - I wouldn't be surprised if she makes that at least.

That being said it is still cheaper than an undergrad degree at NYU, which including housing is approx $50-60k/year.


Chelsea Clinton got her MBA from Stanford didn't she?
 
2012-12-10 11:38:49 AM

FishyFred: unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.

Are you using what you learned about the subject?


Yes.

I don't do a lot of poetry for work, but to do the degree I had to learn German and French (most of the good journals are in German) and I use those as part of my job. No one at the office has called on me to explain the use of metonymy in the Aeneid, but the careful analysis skills that came from looking for metonymy in the Aeneid apply directly to analysis that I'm doing now. And remarkably, just having that degree in classics carries a crazy amount of clout to the guys who run our offices in Brussels and Frankfurt.

As much as anyone ever uses the subject matter they studied for their degree in their real-world job, yes. I am using it.
 
2012-12-10 11:46:42 AM

Lollipop165: Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.


THIS. Typically MBAs are worth it if you go to a top-10 or so program. Not entirely for the education itself, which is good, but for the contacts, since you'll be going to school with future CEOs and other future powerful people. Your drinking buddies may end up supplying your first round of venture capital, or be the bankers selling your company to Google. Your graduating class will include several kids who are pretty much guaranteed to be Fortune 500 CEOs due to family connections, a couple of Congress-critter's kids, family members of former presidents, etc.
 
2012-12-10 11:49:48 AM
At the top, you don't pay for the education - you pay for the prestige. And because the number of deserving and capable applicants so far exceed the number of available slots, the schools can basically throw darts at the names and still select a very good student pool. If you're lucking enough to get hit with a dart, you're set for life. Otherwise, piss off, moocher.
 
2012-12-10 11:50:07 AM
Yes, an MBA from Stanford, not Podunk State University online, subby.
 
2012-12-10 11:53:45 AM

unlikely: FishyFred: unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.

Are you using what you learned about the subject?

Yes.

I don't do a lot of poetry for work, but to do the degree I had to learn German and French (most of the good journals are in German) and I use those as part of my job. No one at the office has called on me to explain the use of metonymy in the Aeneid, but the careful analysis skills that came from looking for metonymy in the Aeneid apply directly to analysis that I'm doing now. And remarkably, just having that degree in classics carries a crazy amount of clout to the guys who run our offices in Brussels and Frankfurt.

As much as anyone ever uses the subject matter they studied for their degree in their real-world job, yes. I am using it.


Perfectly done. I don't normally bothering explaining to people how I use my advanced liberal arts degrees to make more money than they do with their "more worthwhile degrees." I use my "pointless" degrees in a variety of subjects on a daily basis, in a field unrelated to anything I studied at all. Which makes it interesting when I'm having to explain to engineers why their careers aren't on the path they wanted, despite their excellent degrees.

The ability to expand your horizons and think in multiple ways is possibly the best skill to have in the long term in business, and guarantees you you're going to rise faster than most everyone else. Most non-liberal arts degrees don't prepare you for this, but instead prepare you to fill a "space."
 
2012-12-10 12:02:10 PM

verbaltoxin: Yes, an MBA from Stanford, not Podunk State University online, subby.


Well played, old bean.

I trust submitter wouldn't be permitted on the sacred grounds of Stanford, even to work in the cafeteria. Which is just as well... I fear contamination from contact with the "lesser breeds"; I prefer to observe their genuflections of gratitude from an olfactorily safe distance.
 
2012-12-10 12:02:20 PM

FishyFred: unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.

Are you using what you learned about the subject?


This is the primary differentiation in viewpoints. The better question is, "Are you using _how_ you learned about the subject?"

Because, in reality, that's the thing that doesn't get forgotten. In pretty much any area "what" you learned about the subject becomes irrelevant within a few years, if it's even relevant at all anyway.

Obviously none of that applies if you stay in academia in the area you're studying -- in that case, what you learn in the subject matters, as it's set up for that to begin with.
 
2012-12-10 12:25:34 PM

FitzShivering: FishyFred: unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.

Are you using what you learned about the subject?

This is the primary differentiation in viewpoints. The better question is, "Are you using _how_ you learned about the subject?"

Because, in reality, that's the thing that doesn't get forgotten. In pretty much any area "what" you learned about the subject becomes irrelevant within a few years, if it's even relevant at all anyway.

Obviously none of that applies if you stay in academia in the area you're studying -- in that case, what you learn in the subject matters, as it's set up for that to begin with.


I agree with that -- I have a communications degree, after all -- and he gave a very good answer. I was just thinking "Latin poetry? He mentions a degree like that AND that he's making six figures? I have to double check this." Because usually that degree would be the punchline of a joke involving a very frazzled barista.
 
2012-12-10 12:31:49 PM
this thread is severely lacking in Medieval poetry.
 
2012-12-10 12:38:51 PM

stiletto_the_wise: Lollipop165: Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.

THIS. Typically MBAs are worth it if you go to a top-10 or so program. Not entirely for the education itself, which is good, but for the contacts, since you'll be going to school with future CEOs and other future powerful people. Your drinking buddies may end up supplying your first round of venture capital, or be the bankers selling your company to Google. Your graduating class will include several kids who are pretty much guaranteed to be Fortune 500 CEOs due to family connections, a couple of Congress-critter's kids, family members of former presidents, etc.


Yeah, I went to NYU which is not quite in the top ten. "TO THE BACKOFFICE WITH YOU H31N0US!!! EYES FRONT!!! DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THE IVY GRADS ON YOUR WAY DOWN THE HALL!!!
 
2012-12-10 12:47:04 PM
Gotta love our free-market economy. Gone are the days of "A first class education with a pedigree", replaced by "You're gotta make a butt-load of cash after you get out of here, so we want our cut up front".
 
2012-12-10 01:40:51 PM

FitzShivering: unlikely: FishyFred: unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.

Are you using what you learned about the subject?

Yes.

I don't do a lot of poetry for work, but to do the degree I had to learn German and French (most of the good journals are in German) and I use those as part of my job. No one at the office has called on me to explain the use of metonymy in the Aeneid, but the careful analysis skills that came from looking for metonymy in the Aeneid apply directly to analysis that I'm doing now. And remarkably, just having that degree in classics carries a crazy amount of clout to the guys who run our offices in Brussels and Frankfurt.

As much as anyone ever uses the subject matter they studied for their degree in their real-world job, yes. I am using it.

Perfectly done. I don't normally bothering explaining to people how I use my advanced liberal arts degrees to make more money than they do with their "more worthwhile degrees." I use my "pointless" degrees in a variety of subjects on a daily basis, in a field unrelated to anything I studied at all. Which makes it interesting when I'm having to explain to engineers why their careers aren't on the path they wanted, despite their excellent degrees.


Yeah. History major here. Not "using" it, but making a ton of money using the skills.

My big problem is all the poetry writing majors/basket wearing majors/etc. who use their "useless" degree as a cover for what I assume is laziness.

All the "Whaaa, society is mean because it won't pay me 6 figures to write poetry!" "I can get you a 5 figure job doing technical writing and you can write poetry in your spare time." "No! I want to write poetry and this just means society doesn't value my education which is unfair."

*sigh*

I need to meet more people like the quoted who realized their liberal arts degree meant more than what the subject of it was.
 
2012-12-10 01:43:36 PM

daemoncan: Gotta love our free-market economy. Gone are the days of "A first class education with a pedigree", replaced by "You're gotta make a butt-load of cash after you get out of here, so we want our cut up front".


More like "we have to afford a bunch of useless staff because having lots of people under an administrator makes them feel important and that's what matters here."

School I went to had a Vice-Provost of Diversity and a Vice-Provost of Affirmative Action with like 10-15+ person staffs. Why all of that couldn't have been done by one guy with a secretary I do not know.
 
2012-12-10 01:47:42 PM
I have an engineering degree from Georgia Tech. Highly ranked and well respected.

I have an MBA from GA State - it was paid for by my employer. GSU was ranked #9 in part time programs by USNWR. Why? Because Emory and GT didn't have part time programs then, and now everyone does, so I'd bet GSU isn't in the top 25 anymore.

The first degree is what opened doors for me. The second was good for me, but didn't really help my salary... the average starting salary for GSU MBA grads was below what I was already making.

MBAs are good if you want to make a career change.

Better to go full time to a top tier (Ivy, Chicago, Stanford, ... top 10 or 15 program).

If not, State U is fine part time, but don't expect a big increase in salary.

And, the cost/ benefit - well, I suppose mine was significant given I didn't pay for it.

As far as degrees in classics go, I'm all for it. I like hiring smart people with good analytical skills. I don't care if you learned that in Heat Transfer 401 or Poetry of the Golden Age of Whatever 395.

When people tell me "I want to get MY (why is it theirs?) MBA" I always ask why? Why? Instead of taking two years off, why not work an extra few hours each day and get ahead of your peers, or take a few classes part time at State U, and pay much less...

Again, if you want to be CEO, go to Stanford or Chicago or Harvard or MIT.
 
2012-12-10 01:54:01 PM

FishyFred: Because usually that degree would be the punchline of a joke involving a very frazzled barista.


Most of the people from my program (that I'm still in touch with) are actually doing BETTER than I am. One's a city councilwoman, and you could make a good argument for her rhetorical skills being a valuable job asset. The guy who was doing the work with setting up classical texts with word-by-word hotlink analysis via hypercard stacks (more recently than you'd think) used the data sorting skills he got with his project, started a little company, and registered a couple of fairly nifty patents relating to data prioritization and delivery over UDP, and is now weighing the options between selling the company or taking the long view and keeping the patents.

My contemporaries who got degrees in EE or CS, are having hard times finding jobs. No one wants to hire a 40-something with a technical degree that's almost 20 years out of date into their cutting edge tech firms; those that haven't gone management by now are terrified.
 
2012-12-10 01:54:21 PM

unlikely: As a guy with a masters in Latin poetry and pulling six figures, I always get a kick out of these headlines.


That seems very... unlikely (GET IT?!)

No, but seriously, I think you're full of sh*t. And since this is the anonymous internet, there's no way to prove you right or wrong (I don't belive you're willing to post pictures of you with your social security number and a paycheque).
 
2012-12-10 01:55:29 PM

H31N0US: Yeah, I went to NYU which is not quite in the top ten. "TO THE BACKOFFICE WITH YOU H31N0US!!! EYES FRONT!!! DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THE IVY GRADS ON YOUR WAY DOWN THE HALL!!!


I actually looked it up because I thought Stern was higher. Farking Dartmouth is higher than Stern? How could that be? lol!

That being said, ratings are stupid. I know people who literally would pick one school over another because it ranked like 2 spots higher than the other on US News and World Reports. There's not going to be that much of a difference if you went Wharton, Stern, or Yale or where ever. There IS a difference to those schools compared to, say, University of Southern Alabama or wherever.
 
2012-12-10 02:00:54 PM

Lollipop165: There's not going to be that much of a difference if you went Wharton, Stern, or Yale or where ever. There IS a difference to those schools compared to, say, University of Southern Alabama or wherever.


"I am a Phoenix!"
 
2012-12-10 02:46:42 PM

Lollipop165: They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.


Or, in other words, sociopaths.
 
2012-12-10 03:21:12 PM

Lollipop165: Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.


Yep. This way they get the triple benefit of knowing they're backing a sure thing, an amazing record of prestigious job placements as their grads go back to promotions at the Fortune 500 companies they came from and a very wealthy alumni population who they can get donations from later on.

All of which increase the prestige of their MBA program and the fees they can charge.
 
2012-12-10 03:33:23 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Lollipop165: Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.

Yep. This way they get the triple benefit of knowing they're backing a sure thing, an amazing record of prestigious job placements as their grads go back to promotions at the Fortune 500 companies they came from and a very wealthy alumni population who they can get donations from later on.

All of which increase the prestige of their MBA program and the fees they can charge.


That is exactly why Steve Jobs and Bill Gates made it to CEO.
 
2012-12-10 03:54:01 PM

mcreadyblue:
That is exactly why Steve Jobs and Bill Gates made it to CEO.


Strange post.
 
2012-12-10 04:26:12 PM

Bronzed War God: ***snip***


I went back to school and got an MBA because my undergrad was in business and I liked analyzing business cases, plus most of the manager level and above resumes that I had reviewed had an advanced degree, and I was bored at work so I needed something extra for my brain. Also, my work would reimburse $2k per calendar year and my wife and I decided that if i was going to go back, it would have to be before we had kids, since doing projects and late nights in class would be required so why add a kid to the pressure of that.

//Now, I can't get a call back for any of the jobs I apply for and my job is still as boring as it was when I started the program. Now I just Fark to hold off the boredom.
 
2012-12-10 04:52:20 PM
Schools like that are a two year cocktail party where you woo and are wooed by corporations. I know a guy who went to a good two year business school. The first year consisted of case studies, some statistics and lots of appointments to line up internships. The second year consisted of a bit of handwaving, a paper or two, and even more appointments to line up jobs. From January to graduation, I don't think he had a single class. Some of his classmates even worked as unpaid labor in large corporations and then were hired into six figure jobs afterwards. I'd wager those massive sums of money not only cover the costs of pimping out the student body to large corporations, but also as a gate to keep the lumpen proletariat out.
 
2012-12-10 06:02:19 PM
Yikes. That's pretty pricey. I completely understand the merits of the degree discussed earlier by others, but 185k is pretty steep. I graduated from a top 10 program five years ago and back then two years full-time would set you back 110-120k. 180k+ is more more than 8% increase YoY, but I suppose it is in pretty bad economic times so the applicant pool must be both wide and deep and the schools can basically charge whatever they can get away with. If memory serves me right there was a similar spike in '02-'04 post tech-bubble.
 
2012-12-10 06:30:48 PM

Lollipop165: Um, an MBA from Stanford is most likely worth that. Generally, REALLY good MBA programs don't just take you right out of school, you have to have some work experience first. They aren't taking the low level guy from accounting, they are taking future CEO's and Senior VPs for top companies.

I know a couple of people who did undergrad at Stanford who were pulling 6 figures in their early 20's and much more now. Another of my friends did her MBA at Harvard. I'm sure an MBA from those schools would bring in the $300ks - I wouldn't be surprised if she makes that at least.

That being said it is still cheaper than an undergrad degree at NYU, which including housing is approx $50-60k/year.


Well, undergrad is 4 years and a FT MBA is 2. So, Stanford is still more expensive per year. That said, take a look at executive programs. They're an even bigger rip off. Wharton West wants $175k for their program, which of course doesn't include living expenses or travel for the international classes.

To echo others here, if it's a top program, it's worth it. Otherwise, don't bother. That is, unless your employer is guaranteeing some sort of major promotion if you get one and they're paying for a good chunk of the cost.
 
2012-12-10 07:04:25 PM

Bronzed War God: I have an engineering degree from Georgia Tech. Highly ranked and well respected.

I have an MBA from GA State - it was paid for by my employer. GSU was ranked #9 in part time programs by USNWR. Why? Because Emory and GT didn't have part time programs then, and now everyone does, so I'd bet GSU isn't in the top 25 anymore.

The first degree is what opened doors for me. The second was good for me, but didn't really help my salary... the average starting salary for GSU MBA grads was below what I was already making.

MBAs are good if you want to make a career change.

Better to go full time to a top tier (Ivy, Chicago, Stanford, ... top 10 or 15 program).

If not, State U is fine part time, but don't expect a big increase in salary.

And, the cost/ benefit - well, I suppose mine was significant given I didn't pay for it.

As far as degrees in classics go, I'm all for it. I like hiring smart people with good analytical skills. I don't care if you learned that in Heat Transfer 401 or Poetry of the Golden Age of Whatever 395.

When people tell me "I want to get MY (why is it theirs?) MBA" I always ask why? Why? Instead of taking two years off, why not work an extra few hours each day and get ahead of your peers, or take a few classes part time at State U, and pay much less...

Again, if you want to be CEO, go to Stanford or Chicago or Harvard or MIT.


as someone who went to a top15 MBA program to do a career change, I'm getting a kick out of this post.

I am running into a bit of a brick wall in this regard. when I have not run into hiring freezes, I get feedback of "we prefer an MBA candidate with 3-5 years experience in this industry". I'm getting this nonsense from non-profits and startups as well.

These jobs are generally not getting filled. I still see the same jobs reappearing on a regular basis as "new", things I've applied to back in June. Its really frustrating.

/career services at my "top" program were awful, but our immediate rivals weren't any better. some of the staffers recently left for two of the top 5 programs.....i feel bad for their students.
 
2012-12-10 07:06:36 PM

dumbobruni: as someone who went to a top15 MBA program to do a career change, I'm getting a kick out of this post.

I am running into a bit of a brick wall in this regard. when I have not run into hiring freezes, I get feedback of "we prefer an MBA candidate with 3-5 years experience in this industry". I'm getting this nonsense from non-profits and startups as well.

These jobs are generally not getting filled. I still see the same jobs reappearing on a regular basis as "new", things I've applied to back in June. Its really frustrating.

/career services at my "top" program were awful, but our immediate rivals weren't any better. some of the staffers recently left for two of the top 5 programs.....i feel bad for their students.


Columbia or NYU?
 
2012-12-10 07:58:35 PM

trapped-in-CH: this thread is severely lacking in Medieval poetry.


"There once was a squire from Nantucket..."
 
2012-12-10 08:01:49 PM

I need to meet more people like the quoted who realized their liberal arts degree meant more than what the subject of it was.



Here! Also a History major.

I always laugh whenever some news about "weird" subject matter some University has a course in causes everyone to get their panties in a wad.

"ZOMG! They're taking a course about comic books! How will they ever get a job with that"

No, they're learning how to analyze information and write coherently. The subject matter is, mostly, irrelevant. Make it something interesting, so that students will be able to absorb that information and use that information as a tool to learn what the course is really teaching.

/glad I learned about the Industrial Revolution, but Batman is more interesting, to me, than Ned Ludd.
//I'm Batman!
///not really
 
2012-12-10 09:05:51 PM
oi 2 years and nearly 200k? insane. Standford maybe a prestigious school but just because you graduated from their is no guarantee of success.
 
2012-12-10 09:18:41 PM

grimlock1972: oi 2 years and nearly 200k? insane. Standford maybe a prestigious school but just because you graduated from their is no guarantee of success.


7/10 - I almost bit
 
2012-12-10 11:14:32 PM

daemoncan: Gotta love our free-market economy. Gone are the days of "A first class education with a pedigree", replaced by "You're gotta make a butt-load of cash after you get out of here, so we want our cut up front".


Where I went, the policy was more like, "You're gonna be totally unemployable after your education is associated with us, so we're gonna bleed you dry while you still have something in the bank."

A year or so after I got my degree, they tried to call and ask for an alumni donation. I pointed out I had been totally unemployed ever since graduating, and they never tried to mooch off me again.
 
2012-12-10 11:45:24 PM

Lollipop165: That being said, ratings are stupid. I know people who literally would pick one school over another because it ranked like 2 spots higher than the other on US News and World Reports. There's not going to be that much of a difference if you went Wharton, Stern, or Yale or where ever. There IS a difference to those schools compared to, say, University of Southern Alabama or wherever.


The way I hear it, the difference between #1 and #15 amounts to a tiny fraction of a standard deviation, but the difference between #15 and #30 is light years. My alma mater is either #3, #9, #10 or #13, depending on what retarded magazine you ask. I think they just roll dice and write down numbers at that level, who farking knows what their methodology is?
 
2012-12-11 06:53:47 AM
The issue is always the difference between what people want to be and what other people need them to be.
 
2012-12-11 10:41:36 PM
percentage of students who actually stroked a check to pay for any amount of that? over/under on 1%
 
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