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(NECN Boston)   Really nice firearms get turned in and destroyed at gun buy-backs all the time. This one was so special that the cops refused to shred it   (necn.com) divider line 135
    More: Cool, firearms, German Army, European Theater, guns  
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37783 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-09 05:01:58 PM
"This is a gun that should actually be in a museum rather than in a shredder,"
Crabtree said. And that's why they will allow the owner to sell the gun.

So she can only sell it to a museum?

Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.
 
2012-12-09 05:15:41 PM
A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.

BarkingUnicorn: If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.


Think you're reading more into what he said than is there. The woman clearly wants to get rid of it, so I'm sure they're putting her in contact with museums and gun dealers so she can do so at a fair price.
 
2012-12-09 05:22:33 PM

vossiewulf: fair price.


The best I can do is $100.

/I've wanted one of those ever since I found out they existed.
 
2012-12-09 05:43:13 PM
70 bucks.
 
2012-12-09 05:44:10 PM
Damnit. Pawn Stars image fail.



BarkingUnicorn: "This is a gun that should actually be in a museum rather than in a shredder,"
Crabtree said. And that's why they will allow the owner to sell the gun.

So she can only sell it to a museum?

Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.


You should probably treat news articles as not exact accounts of what was said and what happened.
 
2012-12-09 05:54:50 PM
Shoots 500 rounds per minute....

I'm assuming she has her approved Form 4 with a tax stamp.
 
2012-12-09 06:03:44 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Shoots 500 rounds per minute....

I'm assuming she has her approved Form 4 with a tax stamp.


She does, no worries.
 
2012-12-09 06:54:37 PM
You know who else was a fan of the MP-44?
 
2012-12-09 07:20:24 PM

St_Francis_P: You know who else was a fan of the MP-44?


Well he wasn't a fan before he was a fan. Which is why they called it the MaschinenPistole 44 when it was developed, because Hitler liked submachineguns and they wanted to hide that it was an assault rifle. Then he gave it a spin and ordered it into production as the Stg-44, and probably remarked to everyone around how brilliant he was for anticipating the need for this weapon.
 
2012-12-09 07:38:37 PM

vossiewulf: St_Francis_P: You know who else was a fan of the MP-44?

Well he wasn't a fan before he was a fan. Which is why they called it the MaschinenPistole 44 when it was developed, because Hitler liked submachineguns and they wanted to hide that it was an assault rifle. Then he gave it a spin and ordered it into production as the Stg-44, and probably remarked to everyone around how brilliant he was for anticipating the need for this weapon.


You're making it difficult to properly Godwin this thread.
 
2012-12-09 07:46:37 PM

NewportBarGuy: vossiewulf: fair price.

The best I can do is $100.

/I've wanted one of those ever since I found out they existed.


I've got a buddy who's an expert In WWII firearms...
 
2012-12-09 08:08:04 PM

St_Francis_P: You're making it difficult to properly Godwin this thread.


Sorry. Resume Godwinning.
 
2012-12-09 08:23:50 PM
So is that thing likely to be in firing condition? Relatively easily restored to firing condition?

Since she already owns it, and has for decades, if the owner decides not to sell it, but to keep it as a historical artifact, family heirloom, investment grade collectible, would she need to obtain a permit for it?

What would it take for the owner to be able to legally ride "assault weapon" in the passenger seat of a car through her city carrying her weapon?

Or to walk down the street pushing a stroller with one hand, carrying this assault rifle in the other?
 
2012-12-09 08:25:50 PM
cdn.most-expensive.net

Wow.

Now I'm wondering if I made the right choice when I traded in my Bugatti Type 57S Atlantic under Obama's "Cash For Clunkers" program.
 
2012-12-09 08:52:57 PM
Holy crap. I didn't think there were any MP44s outside of museums.
 
2012-12-09 09:04:00 PM
"The French fight for glory, the English fight for land, and the Americans fight for souvenirs."

I like hearing the stories about how this stuff gets from the battlefield to someone's collection
 
2012-12-09 09:16:10 PM

vossiewulf: Sorry. Resume Godwinning.


It wasn't a Godwin anyway.

Can't be done intentionally, nor on Weeners, and requires two players.

/kids these days, no concept of history.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-12-09 09:35:33 PM
She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.
 
2012-12-09 09:42:24 PM
Gun porn thread?
 
2012-12-09 09:45:06 PM
Follow up in a few days on how the local BATmen showed up to confiscate it.
 
2012-12-09 09:45:48 PM
jayfan.files.wordpress.com


/can't find the end scene on the bridge
 
2012-12-09 09:47:54 PM

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


Not sure if Im being trolled here. There is no ATF registry.
 
2012-12-09 09:47:59 PM
"A woman turned in the gun"

No! Really? I would have never guessed it was a woman...
 
2012-12-09 09:48:40 PM
don't think the local 'bangers would come up with the $ for it when they could buy something similar and reliable for pennies on the dollar
 
2012-12-09 09:48:50 PM

BarkingUnicorn: So she can only sell it to a museum?


...where I can only presume that it will be worked on by top men.
 
2012-12-09 09:49:14 PM
I saw on the news a few years back where the cops took one of those old English over/unders worth somewhere around $30,000 and took the chop saw to it.

There is no way in hell they could have even tried to see if it was stolen or tried to find the owner.

People who lose $30,000 guns don't just forget about them.
 
2012-12-09 09:50:59 PM

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


There is a year cutoff (I think in the 1960's) involved here. This is grandfathered.
 
2012-12-09 09:51:14 PM
"You could kill a solider back then, and if the captain of your fighting unit signed off on it, you could send that gun home to your family or kid brother or cousin," Cavanna said. "Anything you wanted. Her father, who was a World War II army man, had brought this gun home from the European theater."

I miss this America.
 
2012-12-09 09:51:52 PM
Hopefully it was properly taxed.... if it was, it would be worth 30-50k. Otherwise, it is an untaxed and therefore untransferrable and illegal as all heck to possess, so gotta give to ATF or a museum that has permission from ATF to have it.

Strangely enough in Miller v US regarding the NFA of '34 which was a deciding case on banning/taxing certain kinds of guns the SCOTUS ruled the 2nd only protects military type arms, and the un-registered (and therefore untaxed) sawed off shotgun and machine gun that Miller was busted with were not the type of arms being fielded by militaries...
 
2012-12-09 09:52:51 PM
Good thing somebody spotted that before it got tossed in with the rest of the trash.
 
2012-12-09 09:53:17 PM
An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons. One with the right mint marks can be priceless; too often the people running these "gun buy backs" destroy priceless pieces of history. I've heard of a singer sowing machine 1911 going to one of these.

Usually, one of these is run by people who want to destroy guns and is an easy way to get rid of stolen guns. I would rather they auctioned off any functioning guns and gave the money to charity or to the city over destroying something that can never be replaced.

/ half the people at these things are there with grandpa's priceless collection of guns that they don't realize are worth money and just want to get rid of. The other half want to get rid of stolen guns.
 
2012-12-09 09:54:12 PM
I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.
 
2012-12-09 09:55:23 PM
No way it's worth that much, these guns aren't really that rare, just rare in the USA. Probably worth around 15k.
 
2012-12-09 09:55:25 PM

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


Actually, the estate can possess it for quite some time. It goes into something called a Living Trust. This can be used to sell the item(s) over a period of time or to allow the inheritor to apply for and receive proper class 3 credentials.
 
2012-12-09 09:56:28 PM

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


There have been similar cases and the BATFE normally has stated that there is no fault on the part of the person who "owns" an NFA firearm without knowing that it is in violation of the NFA. They've all been cases of rare historical pieces like this. When this kind of situation arises, the ATF or CLEO may hold the firearm for the "owner" until a suitable solution may be found. Now, usually, it's a registered NFA firearm that simply made its way into a next-of-kin's hands without them realizing what it was. Sounds like this might be the case. Then the BATFE just collects their tax money and allows the owner to sell it to the appropriate purchasers. They have, in very special cases, made exceptions for museums to obtain non-registered NFA firearms in the same manner, so long as they de-mil it, essentially destroying the firearm.

Honestly, the '86 NFA provisions are a pain in the butt and haven't prevented people who want to use an automatic weapon for nefarious purposes from obtaining a weapon modified to do so illegally. Also, if you feel like getting shot at/gassed by Assad's forces, the Syrian Free Army took a warehouse FULL of StG44's and ammo a few months back. Link I'm sure they'd let you have one if you promised to shoot at the baddies.

www.armoryblog.com 
/hotter than the barrel after dumping two mags on FA
 
2012-12-09 09:57:16 PM
Finders keepers. The old bag should've paid up her cable bill to watch Pawn Stars so she'd know better.
 
2012-12-09 09:57:54 PM

iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.


I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....
 
2012-12-09 09:59:08 PM
End of the article, I think they actually tipped her off that this was an expensive piece of history and that they were allowing her to sell it.

How does the family member of a long-dead wwII vet, who may not even have a gun card, have permission to sell a full-auto gun legally speaking?

/Morally the cops are doing the right thing, not the question here.
 
2012-12-09 10:00:23 PM
It's sad that this police event would take place in a birthplace of liberty like this.
 
2012-12-09 10:02:23 PM

poe_zlaw: NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.

Not sure if Im being trolled here. There is no ATF registry.


Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"
 
2012-12-09 10:04:04 PM

RatMaster999: I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.


I've got a sporterized Mauser in .30-06 that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I had always wondered about the origins of the action until I had a friend reblue it (it's staying in the family, I'm more interested in keeping it in nice condition than resale value) and he pointed out this:

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net 

/also hae an heirloom Krag going on 5 generations in the family,
 
2012-12-09 10:08:37 PM

tallen702: iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.

I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....


I don't know; the fg42 is ugly as sin; plus, it uses 8mm Mauser in a select fire application. The stg-44 uses 7.96x33 kurz.

/ Given the choice; I'd go stg-44 every time
 
2012-12-09 10:12:07 PM

RatMaster999: I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.


Could be end of war production, or it could be a re-arsenal. The Germans and Austro-Hungarians gave away a TON of weapons after the first world war as part of the reparations. When Nazi Germany started marching through Europe, they appropriated a lot of that stock and re-arsenaled it for home-guard and second-tier troops. That's why you can find Steyr M95s and 95/34s with Nazi markings. They gave those to their police and conscript units. In fact, until recently, the majority of the 8x56r you could find was nazi-marked stuff from WWII. But I digress. If the Nazis appropriated it, they usually stamped it with their own marks after doing so. That may be the case with your Mauser.
 
2012-12-09 10:16:15 PM

iheartscotch: tallen702: iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.

I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....

I don't know; the fg42 is ugly as sin; plus, it uses 8mm Mauser in a select fire application. The stg-44 uses 7.96x33 kurz.

/ Given the choice; I'd go stg-44 every time


Yes, but the FG42 is far more rare as it was only given to the fallschirmjäger and even then, in limited numbers. And rarity being what it is to collectors....
 
2012-12-09 10:17:07 PM
I just thought it was hilarious that the farking telecomm majors in TFA/Video kept on calling it "a weapon," or "the weapon." Kept on expecting them to call it an AK-47. Meanwhile, I looked it and thought, "Oh, cool, that one German gun from Call of Duty that doesn't suck."

//Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.
 
2012-12-09 10:19:12 PM
The gun, developed in 1944, holds a 30-round magazine and can shoot 500 rounds per minute. Cavanna said every modern assault rifle produced today is based on this design.

A German can swap magazines 17 times a minute without slowing? Wow, I guess they really are the superior race.
 
2012-12-09 10:22:46 PM

JesseL: RatMaster999: I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.

I've got a sporterized Mauser in .30-06 that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I had always wondered about the origins of the action until I had a friend reblue it (it's staying in the family, I'm more interested in keeping it in nice condition than resale value) and he pointed out this:

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637] 

/also hae an heirloom Krag going on 5 generations in the family,


I'll have to take another look at it and see if I can find a marking like that on the action somewhere. I'd only checked the most obvious places.

I've got a sporterized 1903 Springfield. Shoots wonderfully.

tallen702: Could be end of war production, or it could be a re-arsenal. The Germans and Austro-Hungarians gave away a TON of weapons after the first world war as part of the reparations. When Nazi Germany started marching through Europe, they appropriated a lot of that stock and re-arsenaled it for home-guard and second-tier troops. That's why you can find Steyr M95s and 95/34s with Nazi markings. They gave those to their police and conscript units. In fact, until recently, the majority of the 8x56r you could find was nazi-marked stuff from WWII. But I digress. If the Nazis appropriated it, they usually stamped it with their own marks after doing so. That may be the case with your Mauser.


That's very likely as well. Always had the impression it was handed to some kid barely old enough to shave, who really didn't want to be holding it.
 
2012-12-09 10:22:59 PM

Mr. Holmes: //Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.


Translation: "I am a little girly man", or perhaps "I have a degenerative bone disease".

Really, of all the bolt action battle rifles of that era they're among the softer shooting.
 
2012-12-09 10:23:08 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.


If the deal is not undone, then she no longer owns the gun, and would have to have special permission, or "allowances" to sell a gun she didn't own anymore. They may "allow" her to sell the gun because it is now their gun.
 
2012-12-09 10:23:19 PM
The reporterette is awfully cute.
 
2012-12-09 10:24:33 PM

tallen702: iheartscotch: tallen702: iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.

I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....

I don't know; the fg42 is ugly as sin; plus, it uses 8mm Mauser in a select fire application. The stg-44 uses 7.96x33 kurz.

/ Given the choice; I'd go stg-44 every time

Yes, but the FG42 is far more rare as it was only given to the fallschirmjäger and even then, in limited numbers. And rarity being what it is to collectors....


Fallshirmjäger? Gesundheit!

I know, I know; it was given to paratroops.

I'd say that rarity is a double edged sword; you can say something is worth a million dollars, but is it really worth a million dollars if there isn't a market for it? Plus, then you have to consider replacement parts and such. If something breaks; it would cost a fortune to repair.

/ I know there is a huge market for WW II stuff and an even bigger one for anything with a swastica or an nazi eagle on it.
 
2012-12-09 10:25:06 PM

Popcorn Johnny: No way it's worth that much, these guns aren't really that rare, just rare in the USA. Probably worth around 15k.


I thought the German government and perhaps some other sympathetic countries outlawed items with the SS emblem on it so as to drive the market price up for the goods they want to unload?
 
2012-12-09 10:29:01 PM
An STG 44 nice, if it is functional its worth every bit of that $30,000 if not more. Definitely belongs in a museum.
 
2012-12-09 10:30:05 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: "The French fight for glory, the English fight for land, and the Americans fight for souvenirs."

I like hearing the stories about how this stuff gets from the battlefield to someone's collection


Well sh*t, son; we's already GOT land and glory... I wanna git me one of them prissy officers' swords to cut my steak with!
 
2012-12-09 10:30:24 PM

JesseL: Mr. Holmes: //Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.

Translation: "I am a little girly man", or perhaps "I have a degenerative bone disease".

Really, of all the bolt action battle rifles of that era they're among the softer shooting.


^THIS!!! ^

If you've ever owned of fired a 12 gauge over-under; you know that most bolt action rifles ain't got a thing.

/ I regularly shoot my mosin; it has its original steel butt plate; I'd never install a padded butt plate; not even if someone paid me to.
 
2012-12-09 10:30:30 PM
Jeebus, Stg44. That historian cop must've shiat when he saw that.
 
2012-12-09 10:33:16 PM

Mr. Holmes: I just thought it was hilarious that the farking telecomm majors in TFA/Video kept on calling it "a weapon," or "the weapon." Kept on expecting them to call it an AK-47. Meanwhile, I looked it and thought, "Oh, cool, that one German gun from Call of Duty that doesn't suck."

//Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.


I used to own the CoD 2 leader boards for a very long time using a kar98 or a Springfield rifle.

/grew up in Springfield, touring the old armory was one of my earliest thrills.
 
2012-12-09 10:33:36 PM

tallen702: iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.

I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....


What the holy grail of axis weapons might look like:

www.buckledcranium.com

/Chose poorly
 
2012-12-09 10:36:14 PM
ecx.images-amazon.com

OH, a rare WW II machine gun issued only to the SS in excellent condition?

OK, this is great but the best I could do is $75.
 
2012-12-09 10:37:00 PM

iheartscotch: JesseL: Mr. Holmes: //Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.

Translation: "I am a little girly man", or perhaps "I have a degenerative bone disease".

Really, of all the bolt action battle rifles of that era they're among the softer shooting.

^THIS!!! ^

If you've ever owned of fired a 12 gauge over-under; you know that most bolt action rifles ain't got a thing.

/ I regularly shoot my mosin; it has its original steel butt plate; I'd never install a padded butt plate; not even if someone paid me to.


Yup. I can shoot my M44 all day. The only surplus rifle I have that's close to objectionable is a Steyr M95/34, and that's got very little on a 3" 12ga full of #4 Buck.
 
2012-12-09 10:37:14 PM

Popcorn Johnny: No way it's worth that much, these guns aren't really that rare, just rare in the USA. Probably worth around 15k.


That may be true, but here's a finite supply of legal full autos in the US, drives up the price (a lot). Even an AK-47 (full auto), which can be had $50 in certain parts of the world canl fetch over $10,000 in the US.
 
2012-12-09 10:37:21 PM

Nick Nostril: Jeebus, Stg44. That historian cop must've shiat when he saw that.



Props to that cop for recognizing it and for not just smiling and nodding - keeping it for himself.
 
2012-12-09 10:39:20 PM

iheartscotch: JesseL: Mr. Holmes: //Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.

Translation: "I am a little girly man", or perhaps "I have a degenerative bone disease".

Really, of all the bolt action battle rifles of that era they're among the softer shooting.

^THIS!!! ^

If you've ever owned of fired a 12 gauge over-under; you know that most bolt action rifles ain't got a thing.

/ I regularly shoot my mosin; it has its original steel butt plate; I'd never install a padded butt plate; not even if someone paid me to.


Agree. Was just at the range today with my Maverick 88 and my Steyr M95/34, The Maverick firing foster slugs was way, way, way harder than the 8x56r from the Steyr (with original steel butt plate) Anyone who can't handle the kick from a Mosin/Mauser/etc needs to go back to plinking with their mom's .22
 
2012-12-09 10:39:45 PM
Fark this women, she doesn't deserve to sell it. Cops should have just gave it to a museum.
 
2012-12-09 10:40:42 PM
Whoever turned that in to be destroyed should be beaten. Goddamned pussies destroying history for paranoia.
 
2012-12-09 10:44:53 PM
Deal is she likely cannot legally sell it. If it wasn't registered before 1986 it'll have to get a special exemption from the ATF just to not be shredded, then demilled before transfer to some entity the ATF has given special dispensation to (at which point is it really worth anything?)

Its a shame, there's going to be a lot of federal involvement to keep this thing even visually intact, no way will it be allowed to remain functional.
 
2012-12-09 10:46:20 PM

tallen702: Agree. Was just at the range today with my Maverick 88 and my Steyr M95/34, The Maverick firing foster slugs was way, way, way harder than the 8x56r from the Steyr (with original steel butt plate) Anyone who can't handle the kick from a Mosin/Mauser/etc needs to go back to plinking with their mom's .22


Mind if I ask where you're getting 8x56R these days? I have only a tiny bit of Bulgarian left and don't see many options for replenishing my stock.

/getting more than my 3 carefully hoarded en bloc clips would be good too
 
2012-12-09 10:46:59 PM
What I wouldn't give to get hands on a PPK manufactured in Nazi Germany. Or at least an MP-40.

/Saving up for a Colt Python.
//Just bought an H&K USP Compact.
 
2012-12-09 10:48:37 PM
I thought the whole point of a gun buy back program was that guns were evil, and the world was better off for every gun that was destroyed?

Better put a fork in that reasoning.
 
2012-12-09 10:49:12 PM
There's been similar happenings in the past and they still destroyed them because that was the rules of the gun buy back. Even in cases when it was something that the police could use themselves.
 
2012-12-09 10:50:39 PM

JesseL: tallen702: Agree. Was just at the range today with my Maverick 88 and my Steyr M95/34, The Maverick firing foster slugs was way, way, way harder than the 8x56r from the Steyr (with original steel butt plate) Anyone who can't handle the kick from a Mosin/Mauser/etc needs to go back to plinking with their mom's .22

Mind if I ask where you're getting 8x56R these days? I have only a tiny bit of Bulgarian left and don't see many options for replenishing my stock.

/getting more than my 3 carefully hoarded en bloc clips would be good too


I just bought 2 20rnd packs of new manufacture boxer primed Prvi Partisan from AIM surplus for $19/ea. For enblocs, Old Western Scrounger LLC out of Martinsburg, WV has the 8x50r enblocs which work with the 8x56r ammo for $5/ea IN STOCK! He'll sell you up to 6 at a time. Hornaday of Hungary is also making new manu 8x56r, but it's around $30/20. They use the crap out of it over there for hunting apparently.
 
2012-12-09 10:50:57 PM

Taylor Mental: Finders keepers. The old bag should've paid up her cable bill to watch Pawn Stars so she'd know better.


They wouldn't have bothered to get it appraised since they cannot buy guns made after 1898.
 
2012-12-09 10:55:26 PM
When I played Day of Defeat on a team in a league, that was the gun for the class I played on the Axis side. Pew Pew killin' 'mericans. I also enjoyed the stick grenades.

Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot
 
2012-12-09 10:57:18 PM
""This is a gun that should actually be in a museum"

Came for the Indy reference...saw this:

www.buckledcranium.com

Chose poorly indeed! The correct Indy reference for this thread is:


media.giantbomb.com

because, well...

itbelongsinamuseum.co.uk
 
2012-12-09 10:58:52 PM
Gun buy backs are a waste of time, taxpayer dollars and collectable firearms. At least these cops were surprisingly cool about the whole thing.
 
2012-12-09 10:59:12 PM

JesseL: tallen702: Agree. Was just at the range today with my Maverick 88 and my Steyr M95/34, The Maverick firing foster slugs was way, way, way harder than the 8x56r from the Steyr (with original steel butt plate) Anyone who can't handle the kick from a Mosin/Mauser/etc needs to go back to plinking with their mom's .22

Mind if I ask where you're getting 8x56R these days? I have only a tiny bit of Bulgarian left and don't see many options for replenishing my stock.

/getting more than my 3 carefully hoarded en bloc clips would be good too


I find a lot of obscure or hard to find stuff at www.ammotogo.com. They have just about everything you could imagine. Right now; you can order 8x56r for $1.10/round. I usually order through a gun store, as I am not always home.

/ from time to time I even see 6.5 arisaka; who knows where they get that
 
2012-12-09 11:03:27 PM

tallen702: Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"


I'm only calling you out on it because you called the other guy bubba:

The NFA (National Firearms Act) was enacted in 1934 and restricted the sale of fully automatic weapons through taxation and a registry. The 1968 Firearm Owners Protection Act prohibited the registration of any new fully automatic firearms for civilian use, a de facto ban on the manufacture or sale of new fully automatic weapons to the general public.

If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.
 
2012-12-09 11:06:58 PM
Issued to the SS? What a fail historian. STG-44 was issued to Heer and waffen-ss alike. I hope that lady gets paid.
 
2012-12-09 11:07:32 PM

Fubini: tallen702: Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"

I'm only calling you out on it because you called the other guy bubba:

The NFA (National Firearms Act) was enacted in 1934 and restricted the sale of fully automatic weapons through taxation and a registry. The 1968 Firearm Owners Protection Act prohibited the registration of any new fully automatic firearms for civilian use, a de facto ban on the manufacture or sale of new fully automatic weapons to the general public.

If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.


Reread your post, 68 didn't ban manufacture. FOPA 86/Hughes banned new manufacture.

If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.
 
2012-12-09 11:11:55 PM

Fubini: tallen702: Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"

I'm only calling you out on it because you called the other guy bubba:

The NFA (National Firearms Act) was enacted in 1934 and restricted the sale of fully automatic weapons through taxation and a registry. The 1968 Firearm Owners Protection Act prohibited the registration of any new fully automatic firearms for civilian use, a de facto ban on the manufacture or sale of new fully automatic weapons to the general public.

If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.


Says the guy who just got it wrong. Firearms owners protection act is from 1986 bubba. That's the one that traded the ban on new manufacture or importation of machine guns for prohibiting a national registry for all firearms, not just NFA ones.

Link

I mean, if you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.... amiright?!?! 

/not saying I was wrong on the date (got the title of the act right) but yeah... pot kettle, kettle pot....
 
2012-12-09 11:17:35 PM

NewportBarGuy: vossiewulf: fair price.

The best I can do is $100.

/I've wanted one of those ever since I found out they existed.


SuperNinjaToad: [ecx.images-amazon.com image 500x375]

OH, a rare WW II machine gun issued only to the SS in excellent condition?

OK, this is great but the best I could do is $75.

 
2012-12-09 11:17:50 PM
Wonder how many peaces of history have been lost, because cops didn't know what they had.
 
2012-12-09 11:30:45 PM

stuffy: Wonder how many peaces of history have been lost, because cops didn't know what they had.


Wonder how many lives give a crap.
 
2012-12-09 11:32:40 PM

tallen702: iheartscotch: JesseL: Mr. Holmes: //Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.

Translation: "I am a little girly man", or perhaps "I have a degenerative bone disease".

Really, of all the bolt action battle rifles of that era they're among the softer shooting.

^THIS!!! ^

If you've ever owned of fired a 12 gauge over-under; you know that most bolt action rifles ain't got a thing.

/ I regularly shoot my mosin; it has its original steel butt plate; I'd never install a padded butt plate; not even if someone paid me to.

Agree. Was just at the range today with my Maverick 88 and my Steyr M95/34, The Maverick firing foster slugs was way, way, way harder than the 8x56r from the Steyr (with original steel butt plate) Anyone who can't handle the kick from a Mosin/Mauser/etc needs to go back to plinking with their mom's .22


THIS.

Hell, my wife's favorite gun of mine to shoot is the battered old Enfield MkIV.

/wish .303 British was easier to find
//should just bite the bullet and get the reloading dies for that since I already do .30-06.
 
2012-12-09 11:33:58 PM
"You could kill a solider back then, and if the captain of your fighting unit signed off on it, you could send that gun home to your family or kid brother or cousin,"

You can't still do that? That's lame.
 
2012-12-09 11:35:53 PM
Would they honor her wishes if she claims that she knows the value of the weapon but thinks that as a weapon it should be destroyed.
 
2012-12-09 11:50:22 PM

serial_crusher: "You could kill a solider back then, and if the captain of your fighting unit signed off on it, you could send that gun home to your family or kid brother or cousin,"

You can't still do that? That's lame.


In principle it make sense. But in practice it leads to a few guys shipping thousands of weapons all acquired "legally" for "historical" purposes.
 
2012-12-09 11:58:01 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Shoots 500 rounds per minute....

I'm assuming she has her approved Form 4 with a tax stamp.


Would this particular firearm not be grandfathered in, and not need a tax stamp?
 
2012-12-10 12:04:58 AM

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


Hey dude. Calm down.
 
2012-12-10 12:09:16 AM

vossiewulf: A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.

BarkingUnicorn: If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.

Think you're reading more into what he said than is there. The woman clearly wants to get rid of it, so I'm sure they're putting her in contact with museums and gun dealers so she can do so at a fair price.


I'm reading too much into TFA?
 
2012-12-10 12:10:19 AM

Relatively Obscure: Damnit. Pawn Stars image fail.



BarkingUnicorn: "This is a gun that should actually be in a museum rather than in a shredder,"
Crabtree said. And that's why they will allow the owner to sell the gun.

So she can only sell it to a museum?

Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.

You should probably treat news articles as not exact accounts of what was said and what happened.


No, one should read them and ask questions.
 
2012-12-10 12:34:25 AM
Usually, guns that were used in crimes and rusty, non firing garbage are what it turned in at these things.
 
2012-12-10 01:15:02 AM

macdaddy357: Usually, guns that were used in crimes and rusty, non firing garbage are what it turned in at these things.


Yes a central Illinois gun club and local NRA branch did this at a Chicago buy back. Used the money from the donated POS guns to buy new guns and to fund a youth gun safety retreat. Was on fark, but I heard about it locally first.
 
2012-12-10 01:21:45 AM
Those guns are worth a lot? Really? Huh. Oops. "Dear Gramma, you know when you told us to clean out the attic after your dad died? Well, you're never going to believe this..."
 
2012-12-10 01:32:34 AM

i.r.id10t: Hopefully it was properly taxed.... if it was, it would be worth 30-50k. Otherwise, it is an untaxed and therefore untransferrable and illegal as all heck to possess, so gotta give to ATF or a museum that has permission from ATF to have it.

Strangely enough in Miller v US regarding the NFA of '34 which was a deciding case on banning/taxing certain kinds of guns the SCOTUS ruled the 2nd only protects military type arms, and the un-registered (and therefore untaxed) sawed off shotgun and machine gun that Miller was busted with were not the type of arms being fielded by militaries...


I'm gonna have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that SBS were in use by the military in WWI for trench warfare. I know the cavalry units in the civil war used them. I understood that to be one of the bigger sticking points of Miller v US, well aside from Miller being dead and his legal team not actually being at the trial.
 
2012-12-10 01:35:04 AM

UseLessHuman: When I played Day of Defeat on a team in a league, that was the gun for the class I played on the Axis side. Pew Pew killin' 'mericans. I also enjoyed the stick grenades.

Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot


Loved that game. Kalt and Caen were two of my favorites.

/Use the Piat!!
 
2012-12-10 01:38:00 AM
I really wish that when Police Departments did this that they would allow collectors and dealers to come in an look over the guns and possibly even purchase some. I am sure that a fair number of rare (though still less rare than an Stg-44) firearms get shredded/melted/whatever during these buy-back programs. And that is a shame.
 
2012-12-10 01:39:26 AM

MatrixOutsider: Taylor Mental: Finders keepers. The old bag should've paid up her cable bill to watch Pawn Stars so she'd know better.

They wouldn't have bothered to get it appraised since they cannot buy guns made after 1898.


Rick doesn't buy Nazi stuff anyway.
 
2012-12-10 01:51:58 AM

trappedspirit: stuffy: Wonder how many peaces of history have been lost, because cops didn't know what they had.

Wonder how many lives give a crap.


Any stories on lives that have been lost to old firearms like this in crime reports? Or are you just shiatting and pissing your pants?
 
2012-12-10 02:28:16 AM
Take that sh*t back, girl. Keep it; machine guns are the gift that keeps on givin'.
Girl what will you do with the
big, big, big money? Have you not
everything you need? If you need a
motor car, you pluck it from the
trees. If you need pretty polly, you
take it.
 
2012-12-10 02:30:40 AM

Mock26: I really wish that when Police Departments did this that they would allow collectors and dealers to come in an look over the guns and possibly even purchase some. I am sure that a fair number of rare (though still less rare than an Stg-44) firearms get shredded/melted/whatever during these buy-back programs. And that is a shame.


my twunt ex-SIL had her late father's Python melted.

Still pissed and am not even a gun nut.
 
2012-12-10 02:31:36 AM
Take that sh*t back, b*tch! Keep it; machine guns are the gift that keeps on givin'. What do you want to sell it for?
Girl what will you do with the
big, big, big money? Have you not
everything you need? If you need a
motor car, you pluck it from the
trees. If you need pretty polly, you
take it.
 
2012-12-10 02:33:00 AM

tallen702: poe_zlaw: NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.

Not sure if Im being trolled here. There is no ATF registry.

Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"



It was legal when imported so I would think it should be grandfathered in. Plus not ALL the cops in CT are azzholes so.
 
2012-12-10 02:34:16 AM
Damn phone-sorry.
 
2012-12-10 02:46:10 AM
It is ridiculous that police destroy perfectly good firearms in the first place.

They should just donate those guns to needy orphans.
 
2012-12-10 02:46:18 AM

Thingster: If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.


tallen702: I mean, if you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.... amiright?!?!


Boy, that was a particularly stupid mistake to make on my part. I do know that FOPA was 1986, but transposed the digits.

Also: no hard feelings tallen, just trying to be accurate. There's a lot of bad information and misinformation out there about gun control laws. In both our defense, there was a gun control law passed in 1968 (called, imaginatively, the Gun Control Act), though it's biggest contribution to the current state of affairs was the creation of the FFL system and restriction of inter-state transfers.
 
2012-12-10 03:07:29 AM
What evidence is there, if any, that gun buy back programs has an evvect on the violent crime rate and by that, I mean violent crime overall, not just violent crimes involving guns. If there is little to no reduction in the violent crime rate, then what reason do gun buy back proponents give in answer to questions like "Why continue trying with such programs even in the face of little to no evidence that they actually work?"
 
2012-12-10 05:47:24 AM
Hitler refused to produce it, so it produced itself.
Enemy soldiers consider themselves honored to be shot by it.
Police officers refuse to destroy it, purely out of respect.

It is the most interesting firearm in the world.

/I don't always fight wars, but when I do, I fight for the fatherland.
/Shoot safely, my friends.
 
2012-12-10 06:12:39 AM
My dad sent all this really cool Nazi stuff home from the war. The 8mm Mauser rifle was kick ass.
 
2012-12-10 06:36:17 AM

Fubini: Thingster: If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.

tallen702: I mean, if you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.... amiright?!?!

Boy, that was a particularly stupid mistake to make on my part. I do know that FOPA was 1986, but transposed the digits.

Also: no hard feelings tallen, just trying to be accurate. There's a lot of bad information and misinformation out there about gun control laws. In both our defense, there was a gun control law passed in 1968 (called, imaginatively, the Gun Control Act), though it's biggest contribution to the current state of affairs was the creation of the FFL system and restriction of inter-state transfers.


I figured you'd transposed the numbers, hence not calling you a dumb ass.


And to anyone saying anything about this thing being grandfathered, NO. There is NO grandfathering of automatic weapons. Either it was registered before 1986 or it is illegal to own by anyone other than the state.

As it is likely unstamped/taxed/registered it is going to be destroyed. Maybe not visually, but definitely mechanically.

A couple years ago an estate had to have an MG42 shredded since it wasn't on the registry and the ATF wouldn't budge.

Every now and then a bill gets submitted to reopen the registry for pre-68 war trophies, but it never goes anywhere.
 
2012-12-10 07:19:26 AM
I really, really like imagining that this cop turned a gun buy back program into "Antiques Gun Show."

"Well, my grandfather took this Luger off off Adolf Hitler's corpse, and brought it home with him after the war. It wasn't much good for hunting and he didn't like the shiny gold 'property of AH' on the grips, so papaw just packed it grease and put it in the cellar on top of the rutabaga bin. I guess it might be worth maybe $18 or so..."
 
2012-12-10 07:32:12 AM
Once met an old fellow carrying an M1 carbine into the police station and chatted him up. He had been a Navy corpsman on Iwo Jima, and had taken it from a dead Marine and carried it until the end of the battle. None of his kids wanted it, so he was turning it in to be destroyed. I'm a retired Marine, I offered to buy it from him. No dice. I offered to trade him one without that kind of provenance to turn in instead. No dice. I hope a cop who understood what it was took it home.
 
2012-12-10 08:05:37 AM

vossiewulf: A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.


Sometimes I wonder what WW2 in Europe would have gone like if Hitler let his generals run the military and make their own decisions...
 
2012-12-10 08:10:26 AM

serial_crusher: "You could kill a solider back then, and if the captain of your fighting unit signed off on it, you could send that gun home to your family or kid brother or cousin,"

You can't still do that? That's lame.

What do you mean I can't bring this home??!!

www.wired.com
 
2012-12-10 08:14:54 AM

redmid17: i.r.id10t: Hopefully it was properly taxed.... if it was, it would be worth 30-50k. Otherwise, it is an untaxed and therefore untransferrable and illegal as all heck to possess, so gotta give to ATF or a museum that has permission from ATF to have it.

Strangely enough in Miller v US regarding the NFA of '34 which was a deciding case on banning/taxing certain kinds of guns the SCOTUS ruled the 2nd only protects military type arms, and the un-registered (and therefore untaxed) sawed off shotgun and machine gun that Miller was busted with were not the type of arms being fielded by militaries...

I'm gonna have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that SBS were in use by the military in WWI for trench warfare. I know the cavalry units in the civil war used them. I understood that to be one of the bigger sticking points of Miller v US, well aside from Miller being dead and his legal team not actually being at the trial.


That's the fun thing, Miller v. United States should be precedent for machine guns not being subject to NFA, since they're typical firearms in the U.S., and with incorporation of the 2nd Amendment nationally via the 14th, California's Assault Weapons Ban. That hasn't happened yet.

And as for these "buy-backs", when did these police departments sell guns to the population at large? It's badly named, ineffectual, and a waste of taxpayer money.
 
2012-12-10 08:32:18 AM
military.discovery.com

These were all the rage in 1944.

www.bestrussiantour.com

i1.cpcache.com
 
2012-12-10 09:43:52 AM

Gleeman: vossiewulf: A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.

Sometimes I wonder what WW2 in Europe would have gone like if Hitler let his generals run the military and make their own decisions...


Hard to say. The big question,of course, is whether they'd have invaded Russia. Although Hitler (fairly) gets the rap for that really bad decision, he DID base it partly on professional Wehrmacht intelligence estimates.

The Russian Army turned out to be about 50% larger than they thought, which is really the kind of mistake you don't usually survive. And not bringing warm clothing with you into Russia is flat-out inexcusable. The RAF also turned out to be about 50% larger than the Luftwaffe thought, leading directly to their defeat in the nearly-as-important Battle of Britain. Not sure how much of that was Goering's fault, however.

In short, the German military was, generally, brilliant at tactics and operations...logistics and strategic intel, not so much. Politically, of course, they get a failing grade...von Clausewitz, was Prussian, ffs. Even the ones who tried to knock off Hitler waited until the war was basically lost...they, like the rest, kept quiet while things were going well.

Anybody can run with the sheep. Personally, I think their personal courage was inferior to that of my great aunt, who took one look at the Nazis, and left her country, never to return.

THAT takes guts.
 
2012-12-10 09:50:11 AM

Jim_Callahan: A German can swap magazines 17 times a minute without slowing? Wow, I guess they really are the superior race.


Do you also get prickly when watching drag racing when they say that top fuelers can go 300+ miles per hour, when you've been waiting 300 miles away for over two hours and no dragsters have shown up?

The firing rate for the Stg44 is 500 rpm. Getting into the practical firing rate to satisfy people obsessed with "gun grabbers" would have soaked up half of that report's allotted time.
 
2012-12-10 10:06:48 AM

Mr. Holmes: I just thought it was hilarious that the farking telecomm majors in TFA/Video kept on calling it "a weapon," or "the weapon." Kept on expecting them to call it an AK-47. Meanwhile, I looked it and thought, "Oh, cool, that one German gun from Call of Duty that doesn't suck."

//Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.


miltarily speaking, weapon is the correct term, guns are much bigger

kinda like boat and ship
 
2012-12-10 10:15:35 AM

petec: miltarily speaking, weapon is the correct term, guns are much bigger

kinda like boat and ship



i.imgur.com
Agrees.
 
2012-12-10 10:16:21 AM
Or you could modify the magazine to an ungodly size that could hold all 500 rounds. Not sure if the mechanical workings of the gun would let you do that, but you could theoretically get 500 rpm out of that gun

Also a gun that probably was responsible for killing Allied soldiers then the gun owner itself having to be killed before his weapon was absconded

But thats okay because WW2 is cool and all other wars are not (cept maybe the Revolutionary War and if you're from the South, the Civil War)

I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows
 
2012-12-10 10:30:17 AM
How rare can they be? They made like 500,000 of these.

Maybe the extras are stashed in Argentina, Antarctica
 
2012-12-10 10:43:00 AM
Half a dozen decades later, if anyone is using them, 500k will whittle down pretty quickly, especially those that went into combat.
 
2012-12-10 10:51:46 AM

Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows


A lot of people think that Kalashnikov had one of these to study when he designed the AK47, but he denies it. There are enough significant differences between the weapons that either could be the case. Personally, I'm inclined to take Mikhail Timofeyevitch's word for it.
 
2012-12-10 10:56:06 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: What evidence is there, if any, that gun buy back programs has an evvect on the violent crime rate and by that, I mean violent crime overall, not just violent crimes involving guns. If there is little to no reduction in the violent crime rate, then what reason do gun buy back proponents give in answer to questions like "Why continue trying with such programs even in the face of little to no evidence that they actually work?"


Everyone wants "certain" weapons dissappeared.
 
2012-12-10 10:59:22 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Whoever turned that in to be destroyed should be beaten. Goddamned pussies destroying history for paranoia.


Get used to it. History says things we don't want to hear, so history must be erased and rewritten until the correct people are granted the divine right to rule the world forever.

/he who controls the past, controls the future
//all the greatest Presidents were members of the Democrat Party... George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Ronald Reagan...
 
2012-12-10 11:08:20 AM

Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows


IIRC Mikhail Kalashnikov did study the Stg44, but he also studied the M1 Garand, the Remington model 8, and a bunch of other designs; and of course the Soviets already had a comparable cartridge in the SKS' M43 (7.62x39).
 
2012-12-10 01:05:52 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: JesseL: Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows

IIRC Mikhail Kalashnikov did study the Stg44, but he also studied the M1 Garand, the Remington model 8, and a bunch of other designs; and of course the Soviets already had a comparable cartridge in the SKS' M43 (7.62x39).

The AK-47 internals have much more in common with the M1 Garand than they do with the Stg.44.


Just the rotating bolt. Completely different weapon systems.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-10 01:40:57 PM
They aren't that rare. You don't seem in the US because they were never imported and they were all full-auto.

Most of them went to France after the war and most of those went to Lebanon. They are still used by some of the Christian militias in Lebanon.
 
2012-12-10 02:02:39 PM
Ok, CSB time.

When I was growing up here in middle Tennessee, my dad used to take weekend jaunts to visit various antique shops around the state. One of his favorite shops to visit was an old fashioned hardware store in Waverly, TN called Nick's Hardware. The owner of the shop was an old guy who was always quiet and mild mannered, and who had literally ANY oddball piece of hardware you asked for. What made his shop unique was the large amount of priceless antiques he had suspended from the ceiling and on shelves around the main room. All were "Not for sale" and were his personal collection. Chief among these was his original display rack of 12 original 1860 Henry rifles, each in mint condition manufactured just after the American civil war. And sitting on a shelf, slightly dusty but with perfect finish and condition was a WW2 Johnson Rifle. To those of you who don't know the history of the Johnson Rifles, here's a link.

When the old man passed away my Dad went to the estate sale to see if any of that collection was there, but strangely enough it was missing. We later found out that the old man's son had kept the collection himself, even getting the appropriate paperwork and licenses for the Johnson Rifle and the other class 3 stuff his Dad apparently had tucked away over the years.

/CSB done.
 
2012-12-10 05:19:04 PM

washington-babylon: Ok, CSB time.

[snip]

/CSB done.


That was a very cool story and well told. I assume you accompanied your old man on some of these jaunts?
 
2012-12-10 05:25:26 PM

Hallby81: HeWhoHasNoName: JesseL: Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows

IIRC Mikhail Kalashnikov did study the Stg44, but he also studied the M1 Garand, the Remington model 8, and a bunch of other designs; and of course the Soviets already had a comparable cartridge in the SKS' M43 (7.62x39).

The AK-47 internals have much more in common with the M1 Garand than they do with the Stg.44.

Just the rotating bolt. Completely different weapon systems.


The design of the basic trigger group (hammer, trigger/sear, disconnector) is pretty similar as well.
 
2012-12-10 07:49:51 PM

Barfmaker: washington-babylon: Ok, CSB time.

[snip]

/CSB done.

That was a very cool story and well told. I assume you accompanied your old man on some of these jaunts?


Thank you. I got curious and did some googling and found that I was a bit mistaken about the town. It was in Dickson TN, not Waverly. Use street view to look at the place. It still has a bunch of stuff in the windows. Apparently the son of the old man has kept it open for business, but he took all the firearms out of the place. And yes, I most certainly did accompany my father on many of his rambles around the state. There are a great many stories like that one (all true!), but I shall save them for another thread.
 
2012-12-10 10:09:38 PM

swfan: ""This is a gun that should actually be in a museum"

Came for the Indy reference...saw this:

[www.buckledcranium.com image 450x300]

Chose poorly indeed! The correct Indy reference for this thread is:


[media.giantbomb.com image 317x321]

because, well...

[itbelongsinamuseum.co.uk image 850x279]


Haha! I actually came to do that one and got sidetracked.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-12-11 09:18:03 AM
In response to all who responded to my comments.

1) The National Firearm act of 1934 requires registration of ALL fully automatic firearms. There is a $200 transfer tax

2) There is no 'grandfathering' of any fully automatic or other NFA covered firearms/devices (silencers, short shotguns, machine guns, etc. etc)

3) While it is true the machine gun could be placed in a family trust, it can only be placed in the trust IF the firearm was previously registered. If it was not registered prior to 1986 it can NEVER BE LEGALLY POSSESSED BY A PRIVATE CITIZEN unless they possess a class 4 manufacturers license. (used to be $2500 a year probably more now).

4) Many many fully auto firearms were brought back from wars and unless they were registered with the ATF prior to 1986 they are illegal and the owner is facing 10 years in prison.

5) Ignorance of the law or any of the many subtle nuances of the law WILL NOT KEEP YOU FROM BEING ARRESTED BY THE ATF AND PROSECUTED. The ATF is exceptionally aggressive in NFA enforcement. For example, some people own silencers which have a rubber gasket called a wipe. Many people have been arrested for possessing a spare rubber wipe for their silencer. The law states you may not possess silencer parts a rubber wipe is a part. People have also been arrested for possessing a semi-auto firearm which has a hole drilled in the receiver which will allow the installation of fully auto parts. Having a receiver which can accept fully auto hammers, etc. makes the firearm an NFA weapon. Possessing a full auto receiver only with no other parts (stock, barrel, trigger parts, etc) constitutes possession of a machine gun and you will be arrested.

I know these things, I collect these things, why do you think my FARK name is NFA???
 
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