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(NECN Boston)   Really nice firearms get turned in and destroyed at gun buy-backs all the time. This one was so special that the cops refused to shred it   (necn.com) divider line 135
    More: Cool, firearms, German Army, European Theater, guns  
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37784 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-10 02:30:40 AM

Mock26: I really wish that when Police Departments did this that they would allow collectors and dealers to come in an look over the guns and possibly even purchase some. I am sure that a fair number of rare (though still less rare than an Stg-44) firearms get shredded/melted/whatever during these buy-back programs. And that is a shame.


my twunt ex-SIL had her late father's Python melted.

Still pissed and am not even a gun nut.
 
2012-12-10 02:31:36 AM
Take that sh*t back, b*tch! Keep it; machine guns are the gift that keeps on givin'. What do you want to sell it for?
Girl what will you do with the
big, big, big money? Have you not
everything you need? If you need a
motor car, you pluck it from the
trees. If you need pretty polly, you
take it.
 
2012-12-10 02:33:00 AM

tallen702: poe_zlaw: NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.

Not sure if Im being trolled here. There is no ATF registry.

Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"



It was legal when imported so I would think it should be grandfathered in. Plus not ALL the cops in CT are azzholes so.
 
2012-12-10 02:34:16 AM
Damn phone-sorry.
 
2012-12-10 02:46:10 AM
It is ridiculous that police destroy perfectly good firearms in the first place.

They should just donate those guns to needy orphans.
 
2012-12-10 02:46:18 AM

Thingster: If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.


tallen702: I mean, if you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.... amiright?!?!


Boy, that was a particularly stupid mistake to make on my part. I do know that FOPA was 1986, but transposed the digits.

Also: no hard feelings tallen, just trying to be accurate. There's a lot of bad information and misinformation out there about gun control laws. In both our defense, there was a gun control law passed in 1968 (called, imaginatively, the Gun Control Act), though it's biggest contribution to the current state of affairs was the creation of the FFL system and restriction of inter-state transfers.
 
2012-12-10 03:07:29 AM
What evidence is there, if any, that gun buy back programs has an evvect on the violent crime rate and by that, I mean violent crime overall, not just violent crimes involving guns. If there is little to no reduction in the violent crime rate, then what reason do gun buy back proponents give in answer to questions like "Why continue trying with such programs even in the face of little to no evidence that they actually work?"
 
2012-12-10 05:47:24 AM
Hitler refused to produce it, so it produced itself.
Enemy soldiers consider themselves honored to be shot by it.
Police officers refuse to destroy it, purely out of respect.

It is the most interesting firearm in the world.

/I don't always fight wars, but when I do, I fight for the fatherland.
/Shoot safely, my friends.
 
2012-12-10 06:12:39 AM
My dad sent all this really cool Nazi stuff home from the war. The 8mm Mauser rifle was kick ass.
 
2012-12-10 06:36:17 AM

Fubini: Thingster: If you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.

tallen702: I mean, if you're going to be anal about it, you better be right.... amiright?!?!

Boy, that was a particularly stupid mistake to make on my part. I do know that FOPA was 1986, but transposed the digits.

Also: no hard feelings tallen, just trying to be accurate. There's a lot of bad information and misinformation out there about gun control laws. In both our defense, there was a gun control law passed in 1968 (called, imaginatively, the Gun Control Act), though it's biggest contribution to the current state of affairs was the creation of the FFL system and restriction of inter-state transfers.


I figured you'd transposed the numbers, hence not calling you a dumb ass.


And to anyone saying anything about this thing being grandfathered, NO. There is NO grandfathering of automatic weapons. Either it was registered before 1986 or it is illegal to own by anyone other than the state.

As it is likely unstamped/taxed/registered it is going to be destroyed. Maybe not visually, but definitely mechanically.

A couple years ago an estate had to have an MG42 shredded since it wasn't on the registry and the ATF wouldn't budge.

Every now and then a bill gets submitted to reopen the registry for pre-68 war trophies, but it never goes anywhere.
 
2012-12-10 07:19:26 AM
I really, really like imagining that this cop turned a gun buy back program into "Antiques Gun Show."

"Well, my grandfather took this Luger off off Adolf Hitler's corpse, and brought it home with him after the war. It wasn't much good for hunting and he didn't like the shiny gold 'property of AH' on the grips, so papaw just packed it grease and put it in the cellar on top of the rutabaga bin. I guess it might be worth maybe $18 or so..."
 
2012-12-10 07:32:12 AM
Once met an old fellow carrying an M1 carbine into the police station and chatted him up. He had been a Navy corpsman on Iwo Jima, and had taken it from a dead Marine and carried it until the end of the battle. None of his kids wanted it, so he was turning it in to be destroyed. I'm a retired Marine, I offered to buy it from him. No dice. I offered to trade him one without that kind of provenance to turn in instead. No dice. I hope a cop who understood what it was took it home.
 
2012-12-10 08:05:37 AM

vossiewulf: A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.


Sometimes I wonder what WW2 in Europe would have gone like if Hitler let his generals run the military and make their own decisions...
 
2012-12-10 08:10:26 AM

serial_crusher: "You could kill a solider back then, and if the captain of your fighting unit signed off on it, you could send that gun home to your family or kid brother or cousin,"

You can't still do that? That's lame.

What do you mean I can't bring this home??!!

www.wired.com
 
2012-12-10 08:14:54 AM

redmid17: i.r.id10t: Hopefully it was properly taxed.... if it was, it would be worth 30-50k. Otherwise, it is an untaxed and therefore untransferrable and illegal as all heck to possess, so gotta give to ATF or a museum that has permission from ATF to have it.

Strangely enough in Miller v US regarding the NFA of '34 which was a deciding case on banning/taxing certain kinds of guns the SCOTUS ruled the 2nd only protects military type arms, and the un-registered (and therefore untaxed) sawed off shotgun and machine gun that Miller was busted with were not the type of arms being fielded by militaries...

I'm gonna have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that SBS were in use by the military in WWI for trench warfare. I know the cavalry units in the civil war used them. I understood that to be one of the bigger sticking points of Miller v US, well aside from Miller being dead and his legal team not actually being at the trial.


That's the fun thing, Miller v. United States should be precedent for machine guns not being subject to NFA, since they're typical firearms in the U.S., and with incorporation of the 2nd Amendment nationally via the 14th, California's Assault Weapons Ban. That hasn't happened yet.

And as for these "buy-backs", when did these police departments sell guns to the population at large? It's badly named, ineffectual, and a waste of taxpayer money.
 
2012-12-10 08:32:18 AM
military.discovery.com

These were all the rage in 1944.

www.bestrussiantour.com

i1.cpcache.com
 
2012-12-10 09:43:52 AM

Gleeman: vossiewulf: A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.

Sometimes I wonder what WW2 in Europe would have gone like if Hitler let his generals run the military and make their own decisions...


Hard to say. The big question,of course, is whether they'd have invaded Russia. Although Hitler (fairly) gets the rap for that really bad decision, he DID base it partly on professional Wehrmacht intelligence estimates.

The Russian Army turned out to be about 50% larger than they thought, which is really the kind of mistake you don't usually survive. And not bringing warm clothing with you into Russia is flat-out inexcusable. The RAF also turned out to be about 50% larger than the Luftwaffe thought, leading directly to their defeat in the nearly-as-important Battle of Britain. Not sure how much of that was Goering's fault, however.

In short, the German military was, generally, brilliant at tactics and operations...logistics and strategic intel, not so much. Politically, of course, they get a failing grade...von Clausewitz, was Prussian, ffs. Even the ones who tried to knock off Hitler waited until the war was basically lost...they, like the rest, kept quiet while things were going well.

Anybody can run with the sheep. Personally, I think their personal courage was inferior to that of my great aunt, who took one look at the Nazis, and left her country, never to return.

THAT takes guts.
 
2012-12-10 09:50:11 AM

Jim_Callahan: A German can swap magazines 17 times a minute without slowing? Wow, I guess they really are the superior race.


Do you also get prickly when watching drag racing when they say that top fuelers can go 300+ miles per hour, when you've been waiting 300 miles away for over two hours and no dragsters have shown up?

The firing rate for the Stg44 is 500 rpm. Getting into the practical firing rate to satisfy people obsessed with "gun grabbers" would have soaked up half of that report's allotted time.
 
2012-12-10 10:06:48 AM

Mr. Holmes: I just thought it was hilarious that the farking telecomm majors in TFA/Video kept on calling it "a weapon," or "the weapon." Kept on expecting them to call it an AK-47. Meanwhile, I looked it and thought, "Oh, cool, that one German gun from Call of Duty that doesn't suck."

//Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.


miltarily speaking, weapon is the correct term, guns are much bigger

kinda like boat and ship
 
2012-12-10 10:15:35 AM

petec: miltarily speaking, weapon is the correct term, guns are much bigger

kinda like boat and ship



i.imgur.com
Agrees.
 
2012-12-10 10:16:21 AM
Or you could modify the magazine to an ungodly size that could hold all 500 rounds. Not sure if the mechanical workings of the gun would let you do that, but you could theoretically get 500 rpm out of that gun

Also a gun that probably was responsible for killing Allied soldiers then the gun owner itself having to be killed before his weapon was absconded

But thats okay because WW2 is cool and all other wars are not (cept maybe the Revolutionary War and if you're from the South, the Civil War)

I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows
 
2012-12-10 10:30:17 AM
How rare can they be? They made like 500,000 of these.

Maybe the extras are stashed in Argentina, Antarctica
 
2012-12-10 10:43:00 AM
Half a dozen decades later, if anyone is using them, 500k will whittle down pretty quickly, especially those that went into combat.
 
2012-12-10 10:51:46 AM

Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows


A lot of people think that Kalashnikov had one of these to study when he designed the AK47, but he denies it. There are enough significant differences between the weapons that either could be the case. Personally, I'm inclined to take Mikhail Timofeyevitch's word for it.
 
2012-12-10 10:56:06 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: What evidence is there, if any, that gun buy back programs has an evvect on the violent crime rate and by that, I mean violent crime overall, not just violent crimes involving guns. If there is little to no reduction in the violent crime rate, then what reason do gun buy back proponents give in answer to questions like "Why continue trying with such programs even in the face of little to no evidence that they actually work?"


Everyone wants "certain" weapons dissappeared.
 
2012-12-10 10:59:22 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Whoever turned that in to be destroyed should be beaten. Goddamned pussies destroying history for paranoia.


Get used to it. History says things we don't want to hear, so history must be erased and rewritten until the correct people are granted the divine right to rule the world forever.

/he who controls the past, controls the future
//all the greatest Presidents were members of the Democrat Party... George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Ronald Reagan...
 
2012-12-10 11:08:20 AM

Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows


IIRC Mikhail Kalashnikov did study the Stg44, but he also studied the M1 Garand, the Remington model 8, and a bunch of other designs; and of course the Soviets already had a comparable cartridge in the SKS' M43 (7.62x39).
 
2012-12-10 01:05:52 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: JesseL: Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows

IIRC Mikhail Kalashnikov did study the Stg44, but he also studied the M1 Garand, the Remington model 8, and a bunch of other designs; and of course the Soviets already had a comparable cartridge in the SKS' M43 (7.62x39).

The AK-47 internals have much more in common with the M1 Garand than they do with the Stg.44.


Just the rotating bolt. Completely different weapon systems.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-10 01:40:57 PM
They aren't that rare. You don't seem in the US because they were never imported and they were all full-auto.

Most of them went to France after the war and most of those went to Lebanon. They are still used by some of the Christian militias in Lebanon.
 
2012-12-10 02:02:39 PM
Ok, CSB time.

When I was growing up here in middle Tennessee, my dad used to take weekend jaunts to visit various antique shops around the state. One of his favorite shops to visit was an old fashioned hardware store in Waverly, TN called Nick's Hardware. The owner of the shop was an old guy who was always quiet and mild mannered, and who had literally ANY oddball piece of hardware you asked for. What made his shop unique was the large amount of priceless antiques he had suspended from the ceiling and on shelves around the main room. All were "Not for sale" and were his personal collection. Chief among these was his original display rack of 12 original 1860 Henry rifles, each in mint condition manufactured just after the American civil war. And sitting on a shelf, slightly dusty but with perfect finish and condition was a WW2 Johnson Rifle. To those of you who don't know the history of the Johnson Rifles, here's a link.

When the old man passed away my Dad went to the estate sale to see if any of that collection was there, but strangely enough it was missing. We later found out that the old man's son had kept the collection himself, even getting the appropriate paperwork and licenses for the Johnson Rifle and the other class 3 stuff his Dad apparently had tucked away over the years.

/CSB done.
 
2012-12-10 05:19:04 PM

washington-babylon: Ok, CSB time.

[snip]

/CSB done.


That was a very cool story and well told. I assume you accompanied your old man on some of these jaunts?
 
2012-12-10 05:25:26 PM

Hallby81: HeWhoHasNoName: JesseL: Elroydb: I'm slightly curious, did the Kalashnikov makers study this gun before creating their invention? I'd imagine so but the History Channel now only wants to show Aliens, Bigfoot, and the end of the world TV shows

IIRC Mikhail Kalashnikov did study the Stg44, but he also studied the M1 Garand, the Remington model 8, and a bunch of other designs; and of course the Soviets already had a comparable cartridge in the SKS' M43 (7.62x39).

The AK-47 internals have much more in common with the M1 Garand than they do with the Stg.44.

Just the rotating bolt. Completely different weapon systems.


The design of the basic trigger group (hammer, trigger/sear, disconnector) is pretty similar as well.
 
2012-12-10 07:49:51 PM

Barfmaker: washington-babylon: Ok, CSB time.

[snip]

/CSB done.

That was a very cool story and well told. I assume you accompanied your old man on some of these jaunts?


Thank you. I got curious and did some googling and found that I was a bit mistaken about the town. It was in Dickson TN, not Waverly. Use street view to look at the place. It still has a bunch of stuff in the windows. Apparently the son of the old man has kept it open for business, but he took all the firearms out of the place. And yes, I most certainly did accompany my father on many of his rambles around the state. There are a great many stories like that one (all true!), but I shall save them for another thread.
 
2012-12-10 10:09:38 PM

swfan: ""This is a gun that should actually be in a museum"

Came for the Indy reference...saw this:

[www.buckledcranium.com image 450x300]

Chose poorly indeed! The correct Indy reference for this thread is:


[media.giantbomb.com image 317x321]

because, well...

[itbelongsinamuseum.co.uk image 850x279]


Haha! I actually came to do that one and got sidetracked.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-12-11 09:18:03 AM
In response to all who responded to my comments.

1) The National Firearm act of 1934 requires registration of ALL fully automatic firearms. There is a $200 transfer tax

2) There is no 'grandfathering' of any fully automatic or other NFA covered firearms/devices (silencers, short shotguns, machine guns, etc. etc)

3) While it is true the machine gun could be placed in a family trust, it can only be placed in the trust IF the firearm was previously registered. If it was not registered prior to 1986 it can NEVER BE LEGALLY POSSESSED BY A PRIVATE CITIZEN unless they possess a class 4 manufacturers license. (used to be $2500 a year probably more now).

4) Many many fully auto firearms were brought back from wars and unless they were registered with the ATF prior to 1986 they are illegal and the owner is facing 10 years in prison.

5) Ignorance of the law or any of the many subtle nuances of the law WILL NOT KEEP YOU FROM BEING ARRESTED BY THE ATF AND PROSECUTED. The ATF is exceptionally aggressive in NFA enforcement. For example, some people own silencers which have a rubber gasket called a wipe. Many people have been arrested for possessing a spare rubber wipe for their silencer. The law states you may not possess silencer parts a rubber wipe is a part. People have also been arrested for possessing a semi-auto firearm which has a hole drilled in the receiver which will allow the installation of fully auto parts. Having a receiver which can accept fully auto hammers, etc. makes the firearm an NFA weapon. Possessing a full auto receiver only with no other parts (stock, barrel, trigger parts, etc) constitutes possession of a machine gun and you will be arrested.

I know these things, I collect these things, why do you think my FARK name is NFA???
 
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