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(NECN Boston)   Really nice firearms get turned in and destroyed at gun buy-backs all the time. This one was so special that the cops refused to shred it   (necn.com) divider line 135
    More: Cool, firearms, German Army, European Theater, guns  
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37786 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-09 05:01:58 PM  
"This is a gun that should actually be in a museum rather than in a shredder,"
Crabtree said. And that's why they will allow the owner to sell the gun.

So she can only sell it to a museum?

Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.
 
2012-12-09 05:15:41 PM  
A Sturmgewehr 44, cool. World's first moderate-power cartridge, gas-operated, pistol grip assault rifle, the model followed by almost all modern guns. Then there's the long story of calling it the MP-44 to hide it from Hitler who didn't think the concept would work, then him finally trying it and ordering it into production. Used a fair amount of stampings but still typically German with too much skilled machine work required, the AK design is much simpler to manufacture.

BarkingUnicorn: If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.


Think you're reading more into what he said than is there. The woman clearly wants to get rid of it, so I'm sure they're putting her in contact with museums and gun dealers so she can do so at a fair price.
 
2012-12-09 05:22:33 PM  

vossiewulf: fair price.


The best I can do is $100.

/I've wanted one of those ever since I found out they existed.
 
2012-12-09 05:43:13 PM  
70 bucks.
 
2012-12-09 05:44:10 PM  
Damnit. Pawn Stars image fail.



BarkingUnicorn: "This is a gun that should actually be in a museum rather than in a shredder,"
Crabtree said. And that's why they will allow the owner to sell the gun.

So she can only sell it to a museum?

Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.


You should probably treat news articles as not exact accounts of what was said and what happened.
 
2012-12-09 05:54:50 PM  
Shoots 500 rounds per minute....

I'm assuming she has her approved Form 4 with a tax stamp.
 
2012-12-09 06:03:44 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Shoots 500 rounds per minute....

I'm assuming she has her approved Form 4 with a tax stamp.


She does, no worries.
 
2012-12-09 06:54:37 PM  
You know who else was a fan of the MP-44?
 
2012-12-09 07:20:24 PM  

St_Francis_P: You know who else was a fan of the MP-44?


Well he wasn't a fan before he was a fan. Which is why they called it the MaschinenPistole 44 when it was developed, because Hitler liked submachineguns and they wanted to hide that it was an assault rifle. Then he gave it a spin and ordered it into production as the Stg-44, and probably remarked to everyone around how brilliant he was for anticipating the need for this weapon.
 
2012-12-09 07:38:37 PM  

vossiewulf: St_Francis_P: You know who else was a fan of the MP-44?

Well he wasn't a fan before he was a fan. Which is why they called it the MaschinenPistole 44 when it was developed, because Hitler liked submachineguns and they wanted to hide that it was an assault rifle. Then he gave it a spin and ordered it into production as the Stg-44, and probably remarked to everyone around how brilliant he was for anticipating the need for this weapon.


You're making it difficult to properly Godwin this thread.
 
2012-12-09 07:46:37 PM  

NewportBarGuy: vossiewulf: fair price.

The best I can do is $100.

/I've wanted one of those ever since I found out they existed.


I've got a buddy who's an expert In WWII firearms...
 
2012-12-09 08:08:04 PM  

St_Francis_P: You're making it difficult to properly Godwin this thread.


Sorry. Resume Godwinning.
 
2012-12-09 08:23:50 PM  
So is that thing likely to be in firing condition? Relatively easily restored to firing condition?

Since she already owns it, and has for decades, if the owner decides not to sell it, but to keep it as a historical artifact, family heirloom, investment grade collectible, would she need to obtain a permit for it?

What would it take for the owner to be able to legally ride "assault weapon" in the passenger seat of a car through her city carrying her weapon?

Or to walk down the street pushing a stroller with one hand, carrying this assault rifle in the other?
 
2012-12-09 08:25:50 PM  
cdn.most-expensive.net

Wow.

Now I'm wondering if I made the right choice when I traded in my Bugatti Type 57S Atlantic under Obama's "Cash For Clunkers" program.
 
2012-12-09 08:52:57 PM  
Holy crap. I didn't think there were any MP44s outside of museums.
 
2012-12-09 09:04:00 PM  
"The French fight for glory, the English fight for land, and the Americans fight for souvenirs."

I like hearing the stories about how this stuff gets from the battlefield to someone's collection
 
2012-12-09 09:16:10 PM  

vossiewulf: Sorry. Resume Godwinning.


It wasn't a Godwin anyway.

Can't be done intentionally, nor on Weeners, and requires two players.

/kids these days, no concept of history.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-12-09 09:35:33 PM  
She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.
 
2012-12-09 09:42:24 PM  
Gun porn thread?
 
2012-12-09 09:45:06 PM  
Follow up in a few days on how the local BATmen showed up to confiscate it.
 
2012-12-09 09:45:48 PM  
jayfan.files.wordpress.com


/can't find the end scene on the bridge
 
2012-12-09 09:47:54 PM  

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


Not sure if Im being trolled here. There is no ATF registry.
 
2012-12-09 09:47:59 PM  
"A woman turned in the gun"

No! Really? I would have never guessed it was a woman...
 
2012-12-09 09:48:40 PM  
don't think the local 'bangers would come up with the $ for it when they could buy something similar and reliable for pennies on the dollar
 
2012-12-09 09:48:50 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: So she can only sell it to a museum?


...where I can only presume that it will be worked on by top men.
 
2012-12-09 09:49:14 PM  
I saw on the news a few years back where the cops took one of those old English over/unders worth somewhere around $30,000 and took the chop saw to it.

There is no way in hell they could have even tried to see if it was stolen or tried to find the owner.

People who lose $30,000 guns don't just forget about them.
 
2012-12-09 09:50:59 PM  

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


There is a year cutoff (I think in the 1960's) involved here. This is grandfathered.
 
2012-12-09 09:51:14 PM  
"You could kill a solider back then, and if the captain of your fighting unit signed off on it, you could send that gun home to your family or kid brother or cousin," Cavanna said. "Anything you wanted. Her father, who was a World War II army man, had brought this gun home from the European theater."

I miss this America.
 
2012-12-09 09:51:52 PM  
Hopefully it was properly taxed.... if it was, it would be worth 30-50k. Otherwise, it is an untaxed and therefore untransferrable and illegal as all heck to possess, so gotta give to ATF or a museum that has permission from ATF to have it.

Strangely enough in Miller v US regarding the NFA of '34 which was a deciding case on banning/taxing certain kinds of guns the SCOTUS ruled the 2nd only protects military type arms, and the un-registered (and therefore untaxed) sawed off shotgun and machine gun that Miller was busted with were not the type of arms being fielded by militaries...
 
2012-12-09 09:52:51 PM  
Good thing somebody spotted that before it got tossed in with the rest of the trash.
 
2012-12-09 09:53:17 PM  
An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons. One with the right mint marks can be priceless; too often the people running these "gun buy backs" destroy priceless pieces of history. I've heard of a singer sowing machine 1911 going to one of these.

Usually, one of these is run by people who want to destroy guns and is an easy way to get rid of stolen guns. I would rather they auctioned off any functioning guns and gave the money to charity or to the city over destroying something that can never be replaced.

/ half the people at these things are there with grandpa's priceless collection of guns that they don't realize are worth money and just want to get rid of. The other half want to get rid of stolen guns.
 
2012-12-09 09:54:12 PM  
I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.
 
2012-12-09 09:55:23 PM  
No way it's worth that much, these guns aren't really that rare, just rare in the USA. Probably worth around 15k.
 
2012-12-09 09:55:25 PM  

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


Actually, the estate can possess it for quite some time. It goes into something called a Living Trust. This can be used to sell the item(s) over a period of time or to allow the inheritor to apply for and receive proper class 3 credentials.
 
2012-12-09 09:56:28 PM  

NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.


There have been similar cases and the BATFE normally has stated that there is no fault on the part of the person who "owns" an NFA firearm without knowing that it is in violation of the NFA. They've all been cases of rare historical pieces like this. When this kind of situation arises, the ATF or CLEO may hold the firearm for the "owner" until a suitable solution may be found. Now, usually, it's a registered NFA firearm that simply made its way into a next-of-kin's hands without them realizing what it was. Sounds like this might be the case. Then the BATFE just collects their tax money and allows the owner to sell it to the appropriate purchasers. They have, in very special cases, made exceptions for museums to obtain non-registered NFA firearms in the same manner, so long as they de-mil it, essentially destroying the firearm.

Honestly, the '86 NFA provisions are a pain in the butt and haven't prevented people who want to use an automatic weapon for nefarious purposes from obtaining a weapon modified to do so illegally. Also, if you feel like getting shot at/gassed by Assad's forces, the Syrian Free Army took a warehouse FULL of StG44's and ammo a few months back. Link I'm sure they'd let you have one if you promised to shoot at the baddies.

www.armoryblog.com 
/hotter than the barrel after dumping two mags on FA
 
2012-12-09 09:57:16 PM  
Finders keepers. The old bag should've paid up her cable bill to watch Pawn Stars so she'd know better.
 
2012-12-09 09:57:54 PM  

iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.


I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....
 
2012-12-09 09:59:08 PM  
End of the article, I think they actually tipped her off that this was an expensive piece of history and that they were allowing her to sell it.

How does the family member of a long-dead wwII vet, who may not even have a gun card, have permission to sell a full-auto gun legally speaking?

/Morally the cops are doing the right thing, not the question here.
 
2012-12-09 10:00:23 PM  
It's sad that this police event would take place in a birthplace of liberty like this.
 
2012-12-09 10:02:23 PM  

poe_zlaw: NFA: She can't legally possess that gun. Unless it's registered with that ATF in her name, it's illegal for her to possess it. The cops were right to say that it's a treasure and shouldn't be destroyed but it's an illegal gun. The penalty is 10 years in federal prison. Even if the gun was registered in her husband's for father's name, she can't possess it without having having it transfered to her name. Meanwhile it has to be in the possession of a class 3 dealer until the transfer occurs.

If the gun was never registered, it can't ever be registered.

Not sure if Im being trolled here. There is no ATF registry.


Look again bubba: Link

There's no national registry for everyday run-of-the-mill firearms (aka Non-NFA firearms) However, for weapons that fall under the national firearms act of 1968 (and the subsequent modifications/additions/etc.) such as machine guns, yes, there is one and it is called "The National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record"
 
2012-12-09 10:04:04 PM  

RatMaster999: I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.


I've got a sporterized Mauser in .30-06 that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I had always wondered about the origins of the action until I had a friend reblue it (it's staying in the family, I'm more interested in keeping it in nice condition than resale value) and he pointed out this:

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net 

/also hae an heirloom Krag going on 5 generations in the family,
 
2012-12-09 10:08:37 PM  

tallen702: iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.

I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....


I don't know; the fg42 is ugly as sin; plus, it uses 8mm Mauser in a select fire application. The stg-44 uses 7.96x33 kurz.

/ Given the choice; I'd go stg-44 every time
 
2012-12-09 10:12:07 PM  

RatMaster999: I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.


Could be end of war production, or it could be a re-arsenal. The Germans and Austro-Hungarians gave away a TON of weapons after the first world war as part of the reparations. When Nazi Germany started marching through Europe, they appropriated a lot of that stock and re-arsenaled it for home-guard and second-tier troops. That's why you can find Steyr M95s and 95/34s with Nazi markings. They gave those to their police and conscript units. In fact, until recently, the majority of the 8x56r you could find was nazi-marked stuff from WWII. But I digress. If the Nazis appropriated it, they usually stamped it with their own marks after doing so. That may be the case with your Mauser.
 
2012-12-09 10:16:15 PM  

iheartscotch: tallen702: iheartscotch: An stg-44; wow wow wow wow wow; it's the holy grail of axis weapons.

I beg to differ. I'd say the FG42 is the holy grail of axis weapons....

I don't know; the fg42 is ugly as sin; plus, it uses 8mm Mauser in a select fire application. The stg-44 uses 7.96x33 kurz.

/ Given the choice; I'd go stg-44 every time


Yes, but the FG42 is far more rare as it was only given to the fallschirmjäger and even then, in limited numbers. And rarity being what it is to collectors....
 
2012-12-09 10:17:07 PM  
I just thought it was hilarious that the farking telecomm majors in TFA/Video kept on calling it "a weapon," or "the weapon." Kept on expecting them to call it an AK-47. Meanwhile, I looked it and thought, "Oh, cool, that one German gun from Call of Duty that doesn't suck."

//Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.
 
2012-12-09 10:19:12 PM  
The gun, developed in 1944, holds a 30-round magazine and can shoot 500 rounds per minute. Cavanna said every modern assault rifle produced today is based on this design.

A German can swap magazines 17 times a minute without slowing? Wow, I guess they really are the superior race.
 
2012-12-09 10:22:46 PM  

JesseL: RatMaster999: I have a K98k my grandfather brought home from WWII. It must've been made in a real hurry. The stock doesn't feel like it's ever been sanded, and the only marking is a tiny Nazi eagle stamped on one side of the butt stock, maybe half an inch across.

I know there's a lot of forged Nazi stuff out there, so I'd be tempted to think it a fake if Pa had been the kind of guy to go to gun shows.

He also left me Krag in decent shape.

I've got a sporterized Mauser in .30-06 that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I had always wondered about the origins of the action until I had a friend reblue it (it's staying in the family, I'm more interested in keeping it in nice condition than resale value) and he pointed out this:

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637] 

/also hae an heirloom Krag going on 5 generations in the family,


I'll have to take another look at it and see if I can find a marking like that on the action somewhere. I'd only checked the most obvious places.

I've got a sporterized 1903 Springfield. Shoots wonderfully.

tallen702: Could be end of war production, or it could be a re-arsenal. The Germans and Austro-Hungarians gave away a TON of weapons after the first world war as part of the reparations. When Nazi Germany started marching through Europe, they appropriated a lot of that stock and re-arsenaled it for home-guard and second-tier troops. That's why you can find Steyr M95s and 95/34s with Nazi markings. They gave those to their police and conscript units. In fact, until recently, the majority of the 8x56r you could find was nazi-marked stuff from WWII. But I digress. If the Nazis appropriated it, they usually stamped it with their own marks after doing so. That may be the case with your Mauser.


That's very likely as well. Always had the impression it was handed to some kid barely old enough to shave, who really didn't want to be holding it.
 
2012-12-09 10:22:59 PM  

Mr. Holmes: //Anyone who likes the Kar 98 is a glutton for punishment.


Translation: "I am a little girly man", or perhaps "I have a degenerative bone disease".

Really, of all the bolt action battle rifles of that era they're among the softer shooting.
 
2012-12-09 10:23:08 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Did she return the money the cops gave her? If the deal's not undone, I don't see how they can "allow" her to sell it.


If the deal is not undone, then she no longer owns the gun, and would have to have special permission, or "allowances" to sell a gun she didn't own anymore. They may "allow" her to sell the gun because it is now their gun.
 
2012-12-09 10:23:19 PM  
The reporterette is awfully cute.
 
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