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(Telegraph)   How to code, step one; learn to ^c^v   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 175
    More: Advice, algebra, baking sodas, maths, digitizations, calculus  
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6530 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Dec 2012 at 5:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-09 07:46:28 PM

DeaH: As a person who writes those requirements


Look, a Product weenie! Nah, as you can see as a manager I understand the goal is to make what the product people say we need, they're the poor bastards talking to the customers and trying to figure out what all that competing nonsense means.

We will regularly point out things that we think could be done better, or that what they say they want would be a farking ginormous amount of work for the value of the output, but we always work something out. You want that dialog, it results in the best product. Just as bad as coders who go rogue and do something different on their own is coders who blindly do whatever the requirements say.
 
2012-12-09 07:51:00 PM

freidog: If you write a block of code once, consider making it a function.
If you write a block of code twice, you must make it a function.
If you write a block of code three times, we should consider firing you.


The last major project I had the pleasure of working on was coded in "stream of conscience" mode. Code was copy/pasted of hundreds of times throughout the project and then adapted to meet the needs of the particular context. Table cursors were global so every time you needed to hit the database, the cursor state needed to be saved, reused, and then restored to ensure the integrity of the working data set. It was the a farking nightmare. And this wasn't some LOB application, this was a Point of Sale system that dealt with credit cards.

Worst. Codebase. Ever.
 
2012-12-09 07:56:40 PM

nmemkha: freidog: If you write a block of code once, consider making it a function.
If you write a block of code twice, you must make it a function.
If you write a block of code three times, we should consider firing you.

The last major project I had the pleasure of working on was coded in "stream of conscience" mode. Code was copy/pasted of hundreds of times throughout the project and then adapted to meet the needs of the particular context. Table cursors were global so every time you needed to hit the database, the cursor state needed to be saved, reused, and then restored to ensure the integrity of the working data set. It was the a farking nightmare. And this wasn't some LOB application, this was a Point of Sale system that dealt with credit cards.

Worst. Codebase. Ever.


You should do a writeup on this and send it to DailyWTF.
 
2012-12-09 07:58:08 PM

Doc Ok: Then I started information science / computer science at university, and realized that I was total shyte before.


I'd argue that for people who were self-taught how to program, the first year of CS at university was all about re-learning how to write comments. All of my professors harped on the subject and devoted a significant part of your projects' score to commenting style, verbosity and quality.

I really didn't get into new topics until I hit the CS3xx level, which spent a lot of time discussing advanced data structures, data abstraction and low-level systems programming, and the CS4xx level, which spent a lot of time discussing architectural design, process management, crisis resolution and the like.
 
2012-12-09 07:59:33 PM

Dinjiin: JustSurfin: That was fun. Java punk. You want my job, you got a lot of studying to do.

The stupid thing is, since Java is derived from the C programming language, it wouldn't be hard for him to learn other derivatives such as ANSI-C, C++, C♯, Scala or Perl. Biggest issue would be the jump from object-oriented programming to procedural programming in ANSI-C and Perl.

If you want an alien landscape, try going from C to LISP. Holy fark, that was different.


I did Java to C/C++ when I went to college. That was a pain because Java is effectively a cleaned-up subset of C++. Now C# is basically Java, but C++ would be difficult.
 
2012-12-09 08:03:09 PM

farkeruk: There's a lot of copying stuff from elsewhere now


I [used to] use a lot of BSD and MIT licensed code in my own projects. The problem is, you often get what you pay for. My professors would have publicly flogged many of the programmers I've grabbed code from for their poor style and documentation. It'd take days to figure out what was in the head of some of those programmers.

I just got to the point where I'd read the original code for ideas and examples, and then just rewrite major parts.
 
2012-12-09 08:17:51 PM
Teaching yourself to code doesn't require much maths, says Emma Mulqueeny - just logic

And I'm done reading there.
 
2012-12-09 08:23:54 PM

mcmnky: Teaching yourself to code doesn't require much maths, says Emma Mulqueeny - just logic

And I'm done reading there.


I don't know. Algebra, sure. Trig at a "draw lines on a whiteboard and puzzle out sin() and cos() calls until it works" level, definitely. Beyond that, not really.

Now if the stuff you're coding requires serious math, that's different, and you'll need to know that math. But that's independent of the math you needed to code in the first place.
 
2012-12-09 08:32:45 PM

freidog: If you write a block of code once, consider making it a function.
If you write a block of code twice, you must make it a function.
If you write a block of code three times, we should consider firing you.

I probably botched the quote a bit, but basically the same sentiment.


You probably could have copy-pasted that quote from somewhere :)
 
2012-12-09 08:41:13 PM
1. Learn to figure out requirements from people. This includes knowing when not to give them exactly what they asked for, and knowing when to ask why they want this thing in the first place. Half of my job is telling people that they should use some product that is more mature than whatever I'm going to bake up.

2. Use an appropriate language for the task. Just because you learned Java in college doesn't mean you should be using it for every single project, including the ones that involve a single Linux server and a web application. (That's a better task for Perl, PHP, Ruby, or even HTML/jQuery.) If you don't need portability, STOP USING JAVA!

3. Don't rush the coding. Stress coding ends up with more bugs and more mistakes which take longer to fix than just coding normally.
 
2012-12-09 08:51:57 PM
In my computer science classes in school, there really was a world between people who just copied things and people who actually made things. In the end, both people had something that worked, but the copiers had no real idea HOW it worked, and couldn't fix any problems that may have arisen.

I guess it's a bit like people who cook TV dinners claiming to be able to cook. I guess it's technically true, but......

Basically, this is horrid advice, and everyone should just go buy a book.

//Want to learn anything? Go buy a book. Move to the internet once you learn how to discriminate between horseshiat and knowledge.
 
2012-12-09 08:59:38 PM
Math? Completely worthless for programming.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to copying this bubble sort algorithm for my new Google search replacement.
 
rpm
2012-12-09 09:04:57 PM

ModernLuddite: In my computer science classes in school, there really was a world between people who just copied things and people who actually made things. In the end, both people had something that worked, but the copiers had no real idea HOW it worked, and couldn't fix any problems that may have arisen.


This. And sometimes it's the TAs of the CS courses. I lost credit on exam because he didn't understand what I wrote. I got the credit back after I explained to him WTF synchronization was and why I was using it.
 
2012-12-09 09:06:37 PM

meyerkev: I don't know. Algebra, sure. Trig at a "draw lines on a whiteboard and puzzle out sin() and cos() calls until it works" level, definitely. Beyond that, not really.

Now if the stuff you're coding requires serious math, that's different, and you'll need to know that math. But that's independent of the math you needed to code in the first place.


vossiewulf: The requirement for a good coder is the ability to understand requirements, think logically, think very carefully about efficiency, think about easy extensibility, and consider all possible errors and put it effective error handling that allows easy debugging of what is wrong if something fails. And be quick making your way through all that.

If you work on 3D engines or the like, you also need to be good at math. But there are huge sectors of coding where all you need is the math you learned by third grade.


*facepalm*

Logic is Math. The assertion that you don't need math to program, only logic, is like saying you don't need fruit to make a pie, only apples.

How do you think about efficiency without math? How do you define or measure efficiency without math? How do consider all possible errors without math? How do you know if your error handling is effective without math?

You don't. You can't. I suppose you could brute force it--try every possible permutation of commands and settle on the one that runs quickest and returns and fewest number of errors. Of course, you'll also have to try it with all possible input data. And without math, you'll never comprehend what an enormous waste of time all that is.
 
2012-12-09 09:06:59 PM

meyerkev: mcmnky: Teaching yourself to code doesn't require much maths, says Emma Mulqueeny - just logic

And I'm done reading there.

I don't know. Algebra, sure. Trig at a "draw lines on a whiteboard and puzzle out sin() and cos() calls until it works" level, definitely. Beyond that, not really.


I think his point is that logic is math.
 
2012-12-09 09:07:52 PM
Note to self: refresh before posting.
 
2012-12-09 09:13:14 PM

SineSwiper: If you don't need portability, STOP USING JAVA!


Portability isn't a good reason to use Java. Not even in the top 10.
 
2012-12-09 09:16:01 PM
We call this "Three Button Programming".
 
2012-12-09 09:32:57 PM

rpm: ModernLuddite: In my computer science classes in school, there really was a world between people who just copied things and people who actually made things. In the end, both people had something that worked, but the copiers had no real idea HOW it worked, and couldn't fix any problems that may have arisen.

This. And sometimes it's the TAs of the CS courses. I lost credit on exam because he didn't understand what I wrote. I got the credit back after I explained to him WTF synchronization was and why I was using it.


My CS course in high school was interesting because the class was about 50% nerdy kids, and 50% straight-A overachievers who wanted the extra AP credits. The straight A kids all ended up failing. Because in CS you actually have to THINK. And unfortunately, you can't teach people to think. They just have to want to do it, and apply it.

Which is, as I said, why this is hideous advice.
 
2012-12-09 09:43:02 PM

ModernLuddite: My CS course in high school was interesting because the class was about 50% nerdy kids, and 50% straight-A overachievers who wanted the extra AP credits. The straight A kids all ended up failing. Because in CS you actually have to THINK. And unfortunately, you can't teach people to think. They just have to want to do it, and apply it.


Meet the double-hump bell curve
 
2012-12-09 09:43:47 PM

Professor Science: learn to ^c^v

Only be sure always to call it please "research."



You have a friend in Minsk?
 
2012-12-09 09:44:52 PM

mcmnky: *facepalm*

Logic is Math. Rantity rant rant...


I didn't say NO math, I said no math greater than third grade. Or maybe fifth grade. I know a zillion very logical thinkers who manage to do so without the use of differential equations, I guess you are unlucky. And you don't need trigonometry to profile code and based on experience, knowledge of what it's doing, and what it's supposed to do, know whether it's fast enough or as fast as it could be, and then drill down on the slow functions and improve them.

Dunno guy, I manage a large group working on code that generates revenue with numbers starting with a b, everyone is quite pleased with the quality and efficiency, and none of my guys needs to take a cosine of anything. The BI guys, that's a different story.

If you're working on code that's supposed to analyze complex data, involves physics, or any other number of math-intensive applications, yes you need good math guys. But as I said originally, there are large sectors of the coding world where that isn't the case.
 
2012-12-09 09:49:29 PM

vossiewulf: I didn't say NO math, I said no math greater than third grade.


You must have gone to a pretty awesome school where they taught formal logic and complexity analysis in third grade.
 
2012-12-09 09:53:28 PM

vossiewulf:
I didn't say NO math, I said no math greater than third grade. Or maybe fifth grade.


If you think the pertinent math here is diff eq and trig, it's really sounding like you have extremely limited experience. Those jobs are there, but honestly, they tend to result in bad code. Maybe you're that one in a million.
 
2012-12-09 10:02:39 PM
As a Computer Science grad who got stuck doing Business Analysis, I can tell you that being a business analyst sucks donkey balls. I really miss programming, so I have to get my kicks doing stuff like fiddling with the Android SDK when I get home from work.

Hopefully I transition back into development in the near future, preferably not in COBOL which is what I am doing business analysis for, once our services are re-developed into Java.

/seriously, writing test plans and validating data sucks when youre used to solving problems rather than just pointing them out
 
2012-12-09 10:16:24 PM

Swoop1809: Hopefully I transition back into development in the near future, preferably not in COBOL which is what I am doing business analysis for, once our services are re-developed into Java.


People keep telling me we don't use COBOL anymore, but I know that isn't true.
 
2012-12-09 10:18:56 PM

meyerkev: I did Java to C/C++ when I went to college. That was a pain because Java is effectively a cleaned-up subset of C++. Now C# is basically Java, but C++ would be difficult.


One of the nice things about Java and C♯/dotNet is that they both have very clean, consistent and expansive APIs. With C++, only a fraction of the functions you usually need are in the C/C++ Standard Libraries, so you end up having to bang against WinAPI/MFC/GDI+, GTK/GTK+ or Qt. Learning C/C++ is as much about the underlying OS as it is about the programming language itself.
 
2012-12-09 10:24:35 PM

Rockstone: Swoop1809: Hopefully I transition back into development in the near future, preferably not in COBOL which is what I am doing business analysis for, once our services are re-developed into Java.

People keep telling me we don't use COBOL anymore, but I know that isn't true.


COBOL is still everywhere large amounts of data need processing. Banks, UPS, Amazon all have mainframes that utilize COBOL. It isnt going away in the near future either. The company I work for is phasing it out because no one my age (23) learns it anymore, we learn object oriented languages, and the old guard developers are getting expensive. . Most COBOL developers we have are contractors or offshore.
 
2012-12-09 10:25:04 PM

Rockstone: Swoop1809: Hopefully I transition back into development in the near future, preferably not in COBOL which is what I am doing business analysis for, once our services are re-developed into Java.

People keep telling me we don't use COBOL anymore, but I know that isn't true.


From what I've been hearing, it's more like:

We don't actually write stuff in COBOL anymore. We write [insert newer language here] wrappers around the COBOL so that the working, largely debugged, functional code we spent a few decades and millions of programmer dollars writing isn't thrown away and works with our new awesome system, and there's usually 1 or 2 guys who actually know COBOL that can go in and fix stuff that breaks.

So we use it, we just don't write it, and it's probably a stupid language to learn unless you explicitly need it for your job.

/Keeping in mind that every company is different.
 
2012-12-09 10:25:52 PM

Swoop1809: As a Computer Science grad who got stuck doing Business Analysis, I can tell you that being a business analyst sucks donkey balls. I really miss programming, so I have to get my kicks doing stuff like fiddling with the Android SDK when I get home from work.

Hopefully I transition back into development in the near future, preferably not in COBOL which is what I am doing business analysis for, once our services are re-developed into Java.

/seriously, writing test plans and validating data sucks when youre used to solving problems rather than just pointing them out


I worked for a major telecom that uses COBOL for damn near everything. Every year they'd have consultants come in and say 'Switch to Java' or any other language and the telecom would say 'maybe next year'


...for the past 30 years
 
2012-12-09 10:40:01 PM

Swoop1809: Amazon all have mainframes that utilize COBOL


I would be surprised if this were true.

Banks use COBOL because they're still dependent on enterprise-critical programs written in the 1960s. It's certainly not that COBOL is good at handling that data -- in fact, it's absolute shiat at that kind of thing. Hell, COBOL is absolute shiat at everything. It's just that rewriting all that code into something else is insanely difficult from a business perspective. So they've been using the same code for more than 40 years, and they'll continue to lumber along with the same code for the next 40 years.

Amazon probably isn't saddled with 40 year old code.
 
2012-12-09 10:40:40 PM
My current title is "chief software engineer", I'm leading a small group of developers. 12 years of experiment in image processing and neural networks (artificial intelligence if you like), many developers passed under my umbrella and I have to say, the worst kind of them were those who were good at teh maths. Why? Because they were not creative. They were thinking in equations and not in code. When they implemented a solution for a problem they could not see the shortcomings, they lacked any critical thinking because they had the mathematical proof that they had done everything correctly. They lacked the ability to make one step further and make the solution any better than it was written in the research papers and studies.

Many of them had the habit to copy-paste some code from teh net, which was also a sign of the lack of critical thinking. It may be a good practice when you are implementing industry standards, but not when you need to deeply understand the code, and not when you are expected to make something that is better than what is out there.

Of course it is an advantage if you are good at the maths. But if it is all what you've got, you should not be coding. And forget ^c^v, it will only bring problems on the long term.
 
2012-12-09 10:44:48 PM

vossiewulf: DeaH: As a person who writes those requirements

Look, a Product weenie! Nah, as you can see as a manager I understand the goal is to make what the product people say we need, they're the poor bastards talking to the customers and trying to figure out what all that competing nonsense means.

We will regularly point out things that we think could be done better, or that what they say they want would be a farking ginormous amount of work for the value of the output, but we always work something out. You want that dialog, it results in the best product. Just as bad as coders who go rogue and do something different on their own is coders who blindly do whatever the requirements say.


I'm not against the dialogue. I am against disregarding function and use. If you can give the client something better than they ask, and that something meets their needs and is usable - and is completed within the delivery window, there's no issue. It's an issue if you can't.

/My job is also to reign in the customer when you think their requests are unreasonable.
 
2012-12-09 10:55:28 PM
coded for decades from stratch w/o c/p from the web
now, I'm over it.

If someone living in a basement has got something good
on "just one more" language I have to learn, then I'll use it.

beside, knowing what you're asking the system to do efficiently
and filtering out the junk is more than enough to keep me ahead of my competition.
 
2012-12-09 11:09:25 PM
My experience level is pointless to describe; however, within its confines, I have come to conclusion that math people absolutely and uncorrectably suck at programming. They sure to do think they know what what they are doing, but they truly are dismal. Without exception. It's like high-level hardware people who say that they know everything there is know about programming, they suck too.

//Cut and pasters are vermin
//SQL is not programming
//SAP is not programming
//Script kiddies are not programmers
//I have met only a small handful (
 
2012-12-09 11:10:10 PM

hershy799: I run numerical weather prediction models (seriously), so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. That said, there's no way in hell I could program one of those myself. Actually, I take that back -- I could program one that was ridiculously inefficient and only ran in serial.

I don't care about object-oriented programming for what I do -- it's all just FORTRAN code that needs to solve equations SUPER SUPER SUPER FAST. I wish I knew/understood parallel computing/programming better.

/Gets to run on some of the fastest supercomputers in the world... eagerly awaiting this


WRF? I'm currently using ARPS, but that's primarily because the available microphysics and some supporting packages weren't available for WRF yet. I've thought about CM1 and COMMAS, but I'd really like something that includes a spectral bin microphysics package since it'd make my life easier...
 
2012-12-09 11:20:53 PM

Dinjiin: try going from C to LISP. Holy fark, that was different.


Ugh, I'd almost rather actually have a lisp than program in LISP ever again.
 
2012-12-09 11:28:24 PM

DeaH: My job is also to reign in the customer


As noted, poor bastards. Can't think of anything more fun to do in a day than tell an important customer something they don't want to hear.
 
2012-12-10 12:11:04 AM

JustSurfin: I ran into a new programmer at a conference. He's a Jave programmer. Java only. Period. I asked him how many languages he thought he would ever need and he said "Java and maybe Javascript". Then he asked me how many programming languages I've used (I've been in the biz since the late 70s). I was still listing languages 5 minutes later when his eyes glazed over and his brain rebooted.

That was fun. Java punk. You want my job, you got a lot of studying to do.


That is pretty much how things are. Fresh out of college coders are lucky to have a good understanding of 2 or 3 languages at most and many specialized with one.

They kind of freak out when you tell them you use twice that many languages on a daily basis.

Luckly I can't get to 5 minutes of listing languages.. So far at only 16 or so with 5 or so being commonly used on a daily or weekly basis.

Some languages just work better than others for different tasks.
 
2012-12-10 12:16:51 AM
Heh,

I started teaching myself PHP and ASP just because I had some web-based ideas, and I wanted to figure out how to make them happen. Since then, I've been working at coding more efficiently, whenever I can. It's been a great learning experience, but, having started in, and working only within, a web browser-only medium (I already had several years of HTML under my belt when I started with PHP and ASP), and speaking to other developer friends about some of the work they do (Ruby on Rails, for one, comes up a lot), I feel like I'm missing out on something (actually, a lot more than just "something").

Any recommendations for a curious beginner like myself, looking to break out of web-oriented programming?
 
2012-12-10 12:23:32 AM

Jay CiR: Any recommendations for a curious beginner like myself, looking to break out of web-oriented programming?


Depends what interests you, really. You could learn to create smartphone apps, write your own database, play with an Arduino, visit a senior center and learn COBOL... the possibilities are endless.
 
2012-12-10 12:27:58 AM

Jay CiR: Heh,

I started teaching myself PHP and ASP just because I had some web-based ideas, and I wanted to figure out how to make them happen. Since then, I've been working at coding more efficiently, whenever I can. It's been a great learning experience, but, having started in, and working only within, a web browser-only medium (I already had several years of HTML under my belt when I started with PHP and ASP), and speaking to other developer friends about some of the work they do (Ruby on Rails, for one, comes up a lot), I feel like I'm missing out on something (actually, a lot more than just "something").

Any recommendations for a curious beginner like myself, looking to break out of web-oriented programming?


I recommend learning C(procedural) and C++(Object-Oriented). If you can learn to program well in those languages (it's possible to write horrible yet correct code) then you will be well on your way since a lot of languages are patterned after them.
 
2012-12-10 12:35:02 AM

Dinjiin: JustSurfin: That was fun. Java punk. You want my job, you got a lot of studying to do.

The stupid thing is, since Java is derived from the C programming language, it wouldn't be hard for him to learn other derivatives such as ANSI-C, C++, C♯, Scala or Perl. Biggest issue would be the jump from object-oriented programming to procedural programming in ANSI-C and Perl.

If you want an alien landscape, try going from C to LISP. Holy fark, that was different.


Perl is object-oriented. Or perhaps it's most accurate to say that it can be.

You can get away with banging out procedural code, but just about anything useful out of CPAN or any kind of production processing in Perl should utilize objects.

But yeah, Perl tends to drive Java developers into a rage. I think they like having their periods.
 
2012-12-10 12:52:13 AM

Swoop1809: Rockstone: Swoop1809: Hopefully I transition back into development in the near future, preferably not in COBOL which is what I am doing business analysis for, once our services are re-developed into Java.

People keep telling me we don't use COBOL anymore, but I know that isn't true.

COBOL is still everywhere large amounts of data need processing. Banks, UPS, Amazon all have mainframes that utilize COBOL. It isnt going away in the near future either. The company I work for is phasing it out because no one my age (23) learns it anymore, we learn object oriented languages, and the old guard developers are getting expensive. . Most COBOL developers we have are contractors or offshore.


Interesting - I've never touched COBOL and haven't even been aware of it being used anywhere I've worked in the last decade or so.

I have a very bad impression of COBOL programmers. It's probably not fair for me to think of them all that way, but the ones I did deal with in the past were absolute morons and lazy as well.
 
2012-12-10 12:58:10 AM

jimmiejaz: 10 REM "Another green for me"
20 PRINT "Green"
30 for t=1 to 300
40 CLS
50 next t
60 goto 20
1000 END


So the "program" is going to flash the word "Green", clear the screen 300 times, and then do that forever?
 
2012-12-10 01:11:05 AM

jimmiejaz: 10 REM "Another green for me"
20 PRINT "Green"
30 for t=1 to 300
40 CLS
50 next t
60 goto 20
1000 END


Let's rewrite that using copy/paste methods:

10 REM "Another green for subby"
20 PRINT "Green"
30 CLS
40 CLS
50 CLS
60 CLS

You get the idea.

I guess the line numbering n BASIC really farks with copy/paste
 
2012-12-10 01:12:52 AM

hershy799: I run numerical weather prediction models (seriously), so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. That said, there's no way in hell I could program one of those myself. Actually, I take that back -- I could program one that was ridiculously inefficient and only ran in serial.

I don't care about object-oriented programming for what I do -- it's all just FORTRAN code that needs to solve equations SUPER SUPER SUPER FAST. I wish I knew/understood parallel computing/programming better.

/Gets to run on some of the fastest supercomputers in the world... eagerly awaiting this


Actually, Fortran is much worse than c++ these days. The problem is that there are large classes of optimizations that are not possible to express in Fortran if you have iterated calculations like matrix equations, vector products, integrations, and a number of similar operations. In these you typically have many temporary variables to calculate sub expressions. Even if you try to remove them by hand you face: 1) you cannot take advantage of any libraries then for any of the ops, and 2) the memory model still forces a number of temps.

C++ expression templates solved this in a way unavailable to almost any language (except D). They allow types to be the temporaries and the type mechanism composes the operations to remove the temporaries by the compiler. C++ matrix libraries are much faster these days than any other language's. Even faster than c. You need a good type system for that.
 
2012-12-10 01:21:14 AM
ftfa:  But here's the scary part. Although the basics don't require maths, as soon as you venture out of the world of website and app building you do need to become familiar with more complicated mathematical theory and practice - and even some physics and perhaps even some relativity if you want to go into game programming.


Wait, what?
 
2012-12-10 01:32:37 AM

Happy Hours: jimmiejaz: 10 REM "Another green for me"
20 PRINT "Green"
30 for t=1 to 300
40 CLS
50 next t
60 goto 20
1000 END

Let's rewrite that using copy/paste methods:

10 REM "Another green for subby"
20 PRINT "Green"
30 CLS
40 CLS
50 CLS
60 CLS

You get the idea.

I guess the line numbering n BASIC really farks with copy/paste


Let me rewrite that in COBOL for you.... Naw it would take a whole page of code.

But - COBOL remains popular because it supports a "decimal" data type so financial calculations actually come out right. Try representing 0.33 in binary.
 
2012-12-10 02:00:46 AM
I'm no good at maths, but I am good at readings
 
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