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(Ferndale 115)   Someone forgot to tell the Detroit Police Department that they won't be able to conduct illegal raids and car impoundings anymore if they do it to visitors from the suburbs. Tag is for the ACLU   (ferndale115.com) divider line 40
    More: Hero, Detroit Police Department, ACLU, Art Institute of Chicago, Detroit, Darlene Hellenberg, police misconduct, ferndale, suburbs  
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19691 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 3:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-09 03:41:31 PM  
6 votes:

leevis: Lionel Mandrake: And this is why I've been a card-carrying member for 14 years.

Suck it, haters.

Does that card somehow entitle you to special treatment or something?


It's evidence of doing a lot more for the cause of liberty than posting shiat on the Internet
2012-12-09 03:36:24 PM  
5 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Looks like she got a promotion:

She is now inspector.



Blue wall always works, any cop in a large department with a good heart and any humanity is quickly passed over and eventually quits out of frustration, I have seen it happen time after time.
2012-12-09 03:51:53 PM  
4 votes:

fknra: and people wonder why libertarians worry about a police state...


No, we wonder why "libertarians" are only worried when a Democrat is in the White House

/ Actually, we don't wonder why, it's rather obvious
2012-12-09 03:28:36 PM  
4 votes:
Sorry for the EyeBleach:

blog.thedetroithub.com

This is Lt Vicki Yost who was the senior officer responsible for the raid.

She previously pled the 5th regarding a wrongful death where another cop shot someone. The police department lost that case and 6 million dollars. She attempted to cover it up. The police should have settled instead of her weak attempts at defense. Furthermore, to plead the fifth in court iIn other words she should not be a cop in any jurisdiction. 

Looks like she got a promotion:

She is now inspector.
2012-12-09 03:24:42 PM  
4 votes:
"In a free country, the police may not conduct commando-style raids on innocent people and seize their property without justification," said Dan Korobkin, ACLU

Yet, they can here, and regularly do. Ergo...
2012-12-09 02:55:38 PM  
3 votes:

ZAZ: The judge's opinion is linked from http://www.aclumich.org/CAID.

There is some risk that it will be reversed on appeal. While patrons are not responsible for asking to see the liquor license, an appeals court could decide the totality of the circumstances raised enough suspicion to hold them responsible. Once you say they should have known the party was illegal, the vehicle forfeiture becomes legal.

The complaint alleged excessive force by arresting officers. They knew it was one of eight officers, but were "unable to identify the specific officers who allegedly engaged in excessive force." So they lost. That reminds of a case from my area. Police stole valuable jewelry from a guy they arrested. The thief was one of a few known arresting officers, but each of them denied all knowledge. There is no government liability for theft from a prisoner here. ("Detention of goods" exception.) You have to name the specific officer responsible.


All cops are criminals.
The innocent ones were guilty of conspiracy after the fact.
fark em
2012-12-09 06:27:23 PM  
2 votes:

ZAZ: Police stole valuable jewelry from a guy they arrested. The thief was one of a few known arresting officers, but each of them denied all knowledge. There is no government liability for theft from a prisoner here. ("Detention of goods" exception.) You have to name the specific officer responsible.


And if the same police stopped a car with four black people and found a pound of pot stuffed under the seat, all four would be arrested, charged, convicted, and sentenced to jail.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-09 06:04:36 PM  
2 votes:
Bio-nic: So police have no 5th amendment rights? Is that how this works?

Nobody has a 5th amendment right to refuse to testify to avoid noncriminal sanctions, such as loss of job, traffic fines (in some jurisdictions), lawsuits, etc. When people take the 5th in front of Congress they are claiming a risk of criminal prosecution. There is no right to refuse to talk to Congress merely because testimony might be embarassing. Oliver North was forced to testify when a judge ordered that his testimony not be used against him. Monica Goodling didn't have to testify, but she did lose her job because the Justice Department found her refusal to testify suspicious.
2012-12-09 05:03:22 PM  
2 votes:
jaytkay:
No, we wonder why "libertarians" are only worried when a Democrat is in the White House
/ Actually, we don't wonder why, it's rather obvious


The answer, of course, is "Democrats stopped being the party of liberty a very long time ago, so they ignored libertarians up until the point they shifted over to the Republicans out of sheer frustration."
2012-12-09 04:24:26 PM  
2 votes:

AcneVulgaris: edmo: And people claim unions ruined Detroit...

It's as if the police don't have a union that protects them when they farkup.


I wish those construction unions would stop protecting their members after they go around killing people with jackhammers and harassing the public with framing hammers.
2012-12-09 04:10:49 PM  
2 votes:

ZAZ: The judge's opinion is linked from http://www.aclumich.org/CAID.

There is some risk that it will be reversed on appeal. While patrons are not responsible for asking to see the liquor license, an appeals court could decide the totality of the circumstances raised enough suspicion to hold them responsible. Once you say they should have known the party was illegal, the vehicle forfeiture becomes legal.

The complaint alleged excessive force by arresting officers. They knew it was one of eight officers, but were "unable to identify the specific officers who allegedly engaged in excessive force." So they lost. That reminds of a case from my area. Police stole valuable jewelry from a guy they arrested. The thief was one of a few known arresting officers, but each of them denied all knowledge. There is no government liability for theft from a prisoner here. ("Detention of goods" exception.) You have to name the specific officer responsible.


So hostage taking and extortion are legal in Detroit?
2012-12-09 03:50:16 PM  
2 votes:

filter: What do the suburbs have to do with anything?


Comparatively wealthy white people who might actually fight back.
2012-12-09 03:49:53 PM  
2 votes:

fknra: and people wonder why libertarians worry about a police state...


To the average citizen, anything over the top being done on other people is justified as long as it doesn't happen to them.
2012-12-09 03:38:36 PM  
2 votes:
writersgallery.com

Haters gonna hate....


Seriously, though, WTF are these people thinking.... oh right, this is Detroit. Just sit in one city council meeting or hang around city hall and you'll wonder why they let the inmates run the place. Too many people in charge have a severe disconnect with reality. Bing is an improvement, but it's hard to fight decades of corruption and entitlement culture.
2012-12-09 03:26:50 PM  
2 votes:

ZAZ: submitter: illegal raids

The raid was authorized by a search warrant to look for evidence of violation of liquor laws. The warrant was supported by probable cause and in fact there were violations of liquor laws. When police went in they were acting legally.

What the judge found illegal was the policy of arresting everybody present at such events without reason to believe that each person arrested had committed a crime.


Arresting and confiscating their cars. And then saying "oh, you can have your car back for 900 bucks.". It was a shakedown. Another way for corrupt Detroit to make money off its people.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-09 02:17:40 PM  
2 votes:
submitter: illegal raids

The raid was authorized by a search warrant to look for evidence of violation of liquor laws. The warrant was supported by probable cause and in fact there were violations of liquor laws. When police went in they were acting legally.

What the judge found illegal was the policy of arresting everybody present at such events without reason to believe that each person arrested had committed a crime.
2012-12-09 02:01:28 PM  
2 votes:
And this is why I've been a card-carrying member for 14 years.

Suck it, haters.
2012-12-09 12:32:20 PM  
2 votes:
img.allvoices.com

Pictured: Police patrolling the American city of Detroit.
2012-12-09 12:20:42 PM  
2 votes:
And people claim unions ruined Detroit...
2012-12-09 11:42:52 AM  
2 votes:
Those police were helping those people. It was funk night and they heard that the roof was on fire.
2012-12-10 10:02:25 AM  
1 votes:
Remember people...liberals say the government is an overwhelming force of good and is just not big enough. If we keep on letting it get better and dictate more aspects of our lives things can only get better!
2012-12-09 08:25:21 PM  
1 votes:

Fista-Phobia: OnlyM3: Another liberal police state.

Go ahead fark moon bats, blame the "right" for fascism.

LEOs' lives were in danger. Therefore, nothing to see here.


Uh, how were LEO's lives in danger?

The Detroit PD raided a publicly held festival/event at a public art museum.

They detained everybody, cited them for "loitering", then impounded everyones car, since they were cited for "loitering".

What I see is that they sent in the SWAT guys in balaclavas and rifles first, and uniformed officers later (why the hell was a tactical unit needed?!?), found no evidence of illegal activity.

Frankly, I am VERY curious on what grounds they made this raid, since it seems nothing was found, and you'd think that to raid a public party at an art gallery would be a very strange move indeed unless you had ironclad evidence of something illegal happening.

Did they expect to find lots of casual use of drugs because it was an art gallery? That's definitely not probable cause on its own.
2012-12-09 07:01:01 PM  
1 votes:

Christian Bale: Also, it's legal to "forget" where you parked your car, right? Good strategy to remember in the future.


No, it is not legal. You can't lie to a cop. That's obstruction of justice. More importantly, though, you don't need to.

The only thing you EVER should say to a police officer without a lawyer is present is "I will not answer questions without a lawyer". Then, you say NOTHING.

You say the magic word, "Lawyer", and immediately they can't legally ask you shiat.
2012-12-09 06:43:30 PM  
1 votes:

Bio-nic: Because People in power are Stupid: Furthermore, to plead the fifth in court iIn other words she should not be a cop in any jurisdiction.

So police have no 5th amendment rights? Is that how this works?


Yes, they do -but if they use them they should forfeit their job.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-09 05:59:16 PM  
1 votes:
Also, it's legal to "forget" where you parked your car, right? Good strategy to remember in the future.

Police had the site under surveillance and had already obtained an "anticipatory" search warrant. Anticipatory warrants say, generally, "if you see (specified suspicious activity) you can execute this warrant." Police watched through part of the night and had the opportunity to see people arrive and park. At that hour one can speculate that most patrons parked nearby and there was little other activity nearby. When alcohol kept flowing after 2 AM, legal closing time if the servers had had a liquor license, they executed the warrant.
2012-12-09 05:55:25 PM  
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: Furthermore, to plead the fifth in court iIn other words she should not be a cop in any jurisdiction.


So police have no 5th amendment rights? Is that how this works?
2012-12-09 05:33:24 PM  
1 votes:

jaytkay: fknra: and people wonder why libertarians worry about a police state...

No, we wonder why "libertarians" are only worried when a Democrat is in the White House

/ Actually, we don't wonder why, it's rather obvious


You sir are what is referred to as a dumb-ass. Paint that picture with one color. See who will buy it.
2012-12-09 05:30:31 PM  
1 votes:

LemSkroob: FunkOut: AcneVulgaris: edmo: And people claim unions ruined Detroit...

It's as if the police don't have a union that protects them when they farkup.

I wish those construction unions would stop protecting their members after they go around killing people with jackhammers and harassing the public with framing hammers.

you mean like the union workers in NYC (and many others) who take 'liquid lunches' before heading back on to multi-ton machinery? Yeah, they never get protected by the unions.


Construction unions don't do a lot of job protection. Contractors won't see interference in their layoff or firing decisions, with the possible exception of one guy who is designated the shop steward. If guys are showing up at work trashed and keeping their jobs, that's management not paying attention.
2012-12-09 05:26:41 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: And this is why I've been a card-carrying member for 14 years.

Suck it, haters.


I signed up after reading about the Star Trek fans stopped in Illinois incident and how police routinely coach false positives from contraband sniffing dogs to gain entry into vehicles under false pretense.

I am probably going to double my contribution to them this year. Cash starved police forces have really ramped up the douche-baggery recently.
2012-12-09 04:52:27 PM  
1 votes:
It's not justice unless there's jailtime for all the LEO involved, including those who set the policy.
2012-12-09 04:37:33 PM  
1 votes:

foxtail: Concidering the contitutional rights classes that I have to take every year as part of my job requirements, I would say that if we (me and my fellow officers) did this to those we are resposible for policing, the state of MN would tell us to take a hike and so would our union. This is exactly the kind of stuff that they use as an example of what not to do.

/ not a police officer though
//everyone is already deemed guilty
///still have to follow the same rules


MN always seemed like a reasonable state to me.

I'd move there if it wasn't freezing 9 months out of the year.
2012-12-09 04:35:24 PM  
1 votes:
Concidering the contitutional rights classes that I have to take every year as part of my job requirements, I would say that if we (me and my fellow officers) did this to those we are resposible for policing, the state of MN would tell us to take a hike and so would our union. This is exactly the kind of stuff that they use as an example of what not to do.

/ not a police officer though
//everyone is already deemed guilty
///still have to follow the same rules
2012-12-09 04:21:56 PM  
1 votes:

edmo: And people claim unions ruined Detroit...


It's as if the police don't have a union that protects them when they farkup.
2012-12-09 04:14:45 PM  
1 votes:

RedVentrue: ZAZ: The judge's opinion is linked from http://www.aclumich.org/CAID.

There is some risk that it will be reversed on appeal. While patrons are not responsible for asking to see the liquor license, an appeals court could decide the totality of the circumstances raised enough suspicion to hold them responsible. Once you say they should have known the party was illegal, the vehicle forfeiture becomes legal.

The complaint alleged excessive force by arresting officers. They knew it was one of eight officers, but were "unable to identify the specific officers who allegedly engaged in excessive force." So they lost. That reminds of a case from my area. Police stole valuable jewelry from a guy they arrested. The thief was one of a few known arresting officers, but each of them denied all knowledge. There is no government liability for theft from a prisoner here. ("Detention of goods" exception.) You have to name the specific officer responsible.

So hostage taking and extortion are legal in Detroit?


Only when the circumstances prevent the victims from positively identifying the officers.
2012-12-09 04:12:16 PM  
1 votes:

filter: What do the suburbs have to do with anything?


Did a quick check and noticed you were from Europe so here's a little bit about America for you:

Detroit is without a doubt the most racially polarized major city in the US. The city of Detroit is over 80% black with a median household income of $25,000 a year. The suburbs tend to be overwhelmingly white with a few exceptions (notably Southfield at 70% black and Inkster at 73% black) and very affluent (particularly Oakland County, 75% white and median household income of $75,000 a year and the Grosse Pointe cities which are all around 80% white with median household incomes of around $90,000 a year). The northern boundary of Detroit, 8 Mile Road, is a very clear dividing line between wealthy suburbs and the poor city.

There's a long history in Detroit of all sorts of problems, racial and otherwise. Coleman Young was mayor for 20 years and made a career of anti-white racial animosity. The city council today still has distrust of white suburbanites permeating attempts at deals within the city. White suburbanites frequently irrationally fear going into Detroit, even the revitalized downtown area, because of race-based fears.

Detroit also has a longstanding problem between an over-aggressive and under-funded police department (which has a predominately black leadership but a predominately white rank-and-file). They've had supervision both by the State Police and FBI in recent years for civil rights and other abuses. The people of Detroit, being largely poorly educated, poorly connected, and financially poor generally aren't able to avail themselves of legal assistance. The suburbanites, though, tend to be well educated, well connected, and financially well off.
2012-12-09 03:38:51 PM  
1 votes:

leevis: Does that card somehow entitle you to special treatment or something?


There is a lengthy legal precedent, going back to 1789, whereby a card carrying member can claim self-defense against an agent of the government, if that act is deemed a defense against tyranny, a defense of liberty.
2012-12-09 03:36:55 PM  
1 votes:
and people wonder why libertarians worry about a police state...
2012-12-09 03:24:01 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: And this is why I've been a card-carrying member for 14 years.

Suck it, haters.


static.guim.co.uk

Before it was cool, right?
2012-12-09 02:29:06 PM  
1 votes:
Soon after the event, the ACLU of Michigan (American Civil Liberties Union) got involved and police dropped the loitering charges against 130 people, yet they held the patrons' cars in impound, telling them it would be $900 to get them back, plus towing and storage.

Shakedown!
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-09 02:02:56 PM  
1 votes:
The judge's opinion is linked from http://www.aclumich.org/CAID.

There is some risk that it will be reversed on appeal. While patrons are not responsible for asking to see the liquor license, an appeals court could decide the totality of the circumstances raised enough suspicion to hold them responsible. Once you say they should have known the party was illegal, the vehicle forfeiture becomes legal.

The complaint alleged excessive force by arresting officers. They knew it was one of eight officers, but were "unable to identify the specific officers who allegedly engaged in excessive force." So they lost. That reminds of a case from my area. Police stole valuable jewelry from a guy they arrested. The thief was one of a few known arresting officers, but each of them denied all knowledge. There is no government liability for theft from a prisoner here. ("Detention of goods" exception.) You have to name the specific officer responsible.
 
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