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(Some Natural Health Guy)   Obamacare is dooming integrative medicine, EVERYBODY PAN... wait, "integrative medicine" is the new name for "homeopathy"? I mean, HOORAY   (anh-usa.org) divider line 161
    More: Cool, broadcast delay, Supreme Court decisions, homeopathy, HSAs, Roberts Court, CARE Act, supreme courts, health system  
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3588 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Dec 2012 at 3:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-09 10:38:50 PM

FunkOut: MightyPez: FunkOut: What I wrote was making fun of the kneejerk reaction people who write off anything that isn't standard medicine as kooky New Age garbage.

You're the only person to have brought it up.

Headline calling all alternative medicine/integrative medicine the same as the wonderful fairy magic field of homeopathy? Really?


You're the one who came in here with a lame defense of homeopathy and the notion that 'herbs' are somehow on an equal footing with massage therapy that a doctor has prescribed/referred.

What you wrote was, in your words, knee-jerk New Age garbage.
 
2012-12-09 10:55:33 PM

Fark It: FunkOut: MightyPez: FunkOut: What I wrote was making fun of the kneejerk reaction people who write off anything that isn't standard medicine as kooky New Age garbage.

You're the only person to have brought it up.

Headline calling all alternative medicine/integrative medicine the same as the wonderful fairy magic field of homeopathy? Really?

You're the one who came in here with a lame defense of homeopathy and the notion that 'herbs' are somehow on an equal footing with massage therapy that a doctor has prescribed/referred.

What you wrote was, in your words, knee-jerk New Age garbage.


Still shiatty reading comprehension. You imagined a defense of homeopathy. Confusing herbal remedies with homeopathy is stupid, guess why? You can't die from taking homeopathic remedies. You can die from herbal remedies. Because herbal remedies contain actual chemical substances that will affect you, unlike homeopathy. People go out and take herbal remedies on top of their medication without any knowledge of dangerous interactions that could occur.

And those silly people with their opium poppy derivatives for back pain...
 
2012-12-09 11:00:42 PM

MightyPez: FunkOut: MightyPez: FunkOut: What I wrote was making fun of the kneejerk reaction people who write off anything that isn't standard medicine as kooky New Age garbage.

You're the only person to have brought it up.

Headline calling all alternative medicine/integrative medicine the same as the wonderful fairy magic field of homeopathy? Really?

The headline was specifically calling out homeopathy. It didn't mention your non-medicines, just "integrative medicine" which is a loosely defined set of non-medicines.

You alternative medicine types could really benefit from the real stuff. Water and tea leaves aren't going to fix that personality disorder.


I guess you never had tea made from leaves containing psychoactive alkaloids.
 
2012-12-09 11:03:00 PM

gaspode: If this gets greenlit, maybe we can use the followup tag when the article about this kid dying gets submitted.

Chances are they dont have anything much wrong with them, let alone 'We have Autoimmune disease'.. some naturopath/snakeoil salesman is milking them for vast amounts of money after telling them their mild allergies or routine seasonal illnesses are something serious which actual doctors refuse to acknowledge, let alone prescribe heavy drugs for.


THIS.

Speaking as someone who DOES have some sort of adult autoimmune weirdness going on in the family (quite a number of cases of adult-onset type I diabetes, but also at least one case of Guillain-Barre in an uncle as a kid, a possible case of some form of autoimmune colitis, and some (long in remission) neurological weirdness (with paraproteinemia, but not of cancerous origin) in a great-aunt who did require actual immunosuppressives to throw it into remission)...again, I qualify this "naturopath's" claims in the "Where's the herd of Angus because I can smell the bullshiat from here" category:

1) In TRUE autoimmune disorders, you need stuff that's more powerful than microdoses of any drug, and the drugs you have to take tend to fark your shiat up in ways that they don't like to prescribe them unless you have a severe autoimmune disorder. (On the MILD end, you get steroids and maybe interferon--the latter, ironically, to tell your immune system to sit down and drink its goddamn tea; in bad autoimmune disorders you get fun with stuff like cyclosporine and some of the new monoclonal-antibody-based immunosuppressants for stuff like Crohn's or psoriasis or rheumatoid arthritis--and the great-aunt ended up with azathioprine because when she had her autoimmune neuro-wonkiness they had JUST come out with cyclosporine (and azathioprine works because it's a pro-drug to mercaptopurine, an anticancer drug with a known side effect of bone-marrow suppression). The closest thing that exists for "maintenance" therapy outside of the monab-based stuff is with some kids who have very early signs of juvenile-onset type I diabetes who get cyclosporine to keep them from going into full-blown beta-cell wipeout, and even that is very much in the "clinical trial" stages.)

2) As at least one other person in the thread has noted, naltrexone is not an immunodepressant or immunomodulator in any sense of the word--elderberry wine is more of an immunomodulator (at least that has shown some positive results in German trials in calming down a cytokine storm). Naltrexone is an opoid antagonist which was (as another Farker pointed out) originally developed for maintenance therapy of people addicted to opiates like heroin (basically it prevents you from really getting high from shooting up)--nowadays, it's actually much more commonly used in treatment of alcoholism, as it helps folks maintain a desire not to drink (basically it blocks some of the natural opoids the body produces, and produces much more of when one is a chronic alcoholic) without some of the horrid effects of Antabuse. There really is no way it can act as an immunodepressant, and if there was some efficacy in that treatment, it would show the kid had some other disorder altogether (honestly, probably some disorder more amenable to seeing an actual mental health professional).

3) This guy even seems wonky for a naturopath (and there really is no professional certification for naturopathy like there is for even osteopathy in the US; some countries like Germany do license naturopaths as basically herbal-medicine pharmacists and the naturopathic association there does participate in supervised medical trials of herbal medicines, but it is far more regulated than in the US, with the comparison still being much closer to a pharmacist if not a nurse-practitioner). It tends to be unusual for Stateside naturopaths to recommend off-label use of actual pharmaceutical drugs, if only because a lot of naturopaths in the US have a very strong aversion to "allopathic medicine" (that is, normal licensed practice of MDs and DOs).

4) There's a fair amount of woo about low-dose naltrexone on teh intarwebs--which is normally only prescribed off-label by legitimate doctors (MDs and DOs) for maintenance therapy of opoid addicts in recovery and occasionally in fibromyalgia (which at least THAT has some basis, as fibromyalgia is actually a nervous disorder that shows up in the form of pain and naltrexone does have some effect with filamin A and microglial cells--SSRIs tend to be the gold standard for treatment, but naltrexone is being tested in some initial trials as it does seem to dampen some of the inflammatory response in fibromyalgia). There has been some extremely preliminary research re treatment of MS, autism, and Crohn's with LDN, but again this is focusing more on the "calming down the neurotransmitter farkage" aspects and not immunomodulation. 99 44/100% of the woo on the Internet basically has misinterpreted the trials (interestingly, in the same circles which also make the claim that autism is basically an autoimmune disorder, which it likely is not--all evidence now points to autistic-spectrum disorders being an inborn error in neurodifferentiation and neuronal migration causing essentially severe "crosstalk" in the brain) as PROOF IT IS AN IMMUNOMODULATOR and have not a whit of basis in clinical trials at all. There's a quite readable essay on it here.

5) And in relation to that--how the hell is a naturopath (who generally is NOT a licensed doctor, not even a doctor of osteopathic medicine--and usually DOs are more friendly to things like therapeutic massage and (proven effective, non-homeopathic) herbal medicine and nutritional therapy) able to get hold of what is a prescription-only pharmaceutical that even in low doses has a relatively narrow margin of safety (such as, say, if a kid has to end up taking cough syrup containing codeine). My concern is that said naturopath is probably obtaining the naltrexone via extralegal methods like "Russian spam farm" advertised sketchier types of overseas pharmacies (which--if they send drugs at all--tend to be either third-world knockoffs of approved medications or are outright counterfeit or expired--basically the same reason not to get stuff from 1-800-PET-MEDS but only with human meds).
 
2012-12-09 11:28:18 PM

FunkOut: Raharu: FunkOut: Quantum Apostrophe: FunkOut: Yes, homeopathy is a hoax which means massage never works and you can eat buckets of any herb you want without having any effect.

Uh, what?

Same thing I keep hearing, anytime anyone mention alternative medicine, a bunch of people go "LOL that's homeopathy and it's all a fake scam to steal moneys from stupid people". Also, that all herbal medicine is fake and has no effect on people. Then some go on to say that you should just take some painkillers if your back hurts instead of getting the lumps massaged out of your muscles or using an infrared heat lamp to to relieve lower back pain or some other method that doesn't involve more pain pills.

You are of course aware that some maladies and injuries of the spine cant be treated with massages and a heat lamp right?

If you want to talk about about doctors over prescribing pain killers that a valid topic, but lets not try to paint modern medicines in the light you are, as horrible and evil.

My god, why are people so bad at reading comprehension around here? I was clearly not saying you are imagining I said. What I wrote was making fun of the kneejerk reaction people who write off anything that isn't standard medicine as kooky New Age garbage. Yes, of course I am fully aware that some conditions can't be treated like that, but then, you're blindly assuming I'm an uneducated idiot who thinks the human spine is made from magical spaghetti instead of, say, a medical professional.


Have you ever held a spinal cord? It's basically a bunch of spaghetti.

/tastes like it too
//I keed
 
2012-12-09 11:29:01 PM

Chameleon: No, no. You're thinking of someone else. This one isn't psychic, she's just anti-vax. I know it's easy to mix the two up.


Well, I sincerely apologize, even though they are both on the same level of derp.
 
2012-12-09 11:38:14 PM

Matrix Flavored Wasabi:
Have you ever held a spinal cord? It's basically a bunch of spaghetti.

/tastes like it too
//I keed


There's nothing like the great taste of formalin and phenol.
 
2012-12-09 11:48:16 PM

BronyMedic: AND WE'VE GONE GREEN!

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]


It's sodium, baby!
 
2012-12-09 11:50:02 PM

BronyMedic: Doctor Funkenstein: FTFA's Coments: We are careful not to use the words health, healthcare, treat, disease, etc. for fear of stepping on the toes of big business.

I'm guessing you loons don't use those words because you don't do any of those things and there are probably some legal consequences when you draw a circle on a sick person's forehead, stick a magnet up their ass and then tell them its healthcare.

There's also this gem in there:

I don't want Medicare for my kids or me! We have autoimmune disease and I don't want the government involved in their healthcare at all. I want to be able to afford continuing to take my oldest son who's disease is more severe to a naturopath so he can keep using low dose naltrexone. His immunologist refuses to prescribe it for him, but it helps him so much! Personally, I worry about Obama causing restricted or no access to immune modulators or off label uses for medicine like this. I honestly wish one of his daughters got autism or PANDAS, because then he would understand how hard it is.

If this gets greenlit, maybe we can use the followup tag when the article about this kid dying gets submitted.

I hope it goes green. AltMed threads on fark are legendary for derp that rivals any political thread about the gay atheist agenda for war on Christmas.


I appreciate the cognitive dissonance required to consider doctors and pharmaceutical companies to be a big scam, but jokers selling snake oil with no credentials and a folksy story about how their shiat works is not
 
2012-12-10 12:00:24 AM

Raharu: BigLuca: Pharmdawg: You know what they call alternative medicine that works?

Medicine

Homeopathy by its own definition is unscientific quackery.

It's not completely useless. It's the first line treatment of Morgellons disease.

I see what you did there. LOL


Obecalp in varying dosages and routes of intake is one of the most powerful drugs known to modern medical science, and here isn't a doctor that doesn't know that, especially for offlabel use. I hear the more expensive versions of Obecalp work even better.
 
2012-12-10 12:12:19 AM
integrative medicine ≠ homeopathy. Lame, subby, quite lame.

There's lots of information available these days. If people want to use their money on anti-inflammatory herbs instead of COX-2 Inhibitors, why not let them?

Then again, I don't see any point in establishing tax breaks for certain types of medical insurance and treatments, HSAs, etc. So rather than the government declaring the winners in the health and medicine industries, how about if the meddling bureaucrats just use minimal guidelines and regulations to promote commerce and general safety?
 
2012-12-10 12:22:45 AM
And nobody's mentioned chiropractors yet?
 
2012-12-10 12:24:12 AM
i165.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-10 12:31:47 AM

Rusty Shackleford: [application.denofgeek.com image 480x254]

Very funny, and smart man. Has this to say on the subject of "alternative medicine." NSFW, charming Irish swearing


Thanks to this post, I just discovered this guy. He's feckin' hilarious!!
 
2012-12-10 12:32:49 AM

FunkOut: Quantum Apostrophe: FunkOut: Yes, homeopathy is a hoax which means massage never works and you can eat buckets of any herb you want without having any effect.

Uh, what?

Same thing I keep hearing, anytime anyone mention alternative medicine, a bunch of people go "LOL that's homeopathy and it's all a fake scam to steal moneys from stupid people". Also, that all herbal medicine is fake and has no effect on people. Then some go on to say that you should just take some painkillers if your back hurts instead of getting the lumps massaged out of your muscles or using an infrared heat lamp to to relieve lower back pain or some other method that doesn't involve more pain pills.


I'm Chinese and I use acupuncturists/herbalists all the time. I still think homeopathy (i.e. here is some water we've muttered words over) is all a fake scam to steal money from stupid people. Legit acupuncturists and herbalists would never suggest the patient use them exclusively and avoid modern medicine/"big pharma", only the snake oil salespeople do that.
 
2012-12-10 01:29:05 AM
homeophobes.
 
2012-12-10 01:50:07 AM
I value PBS and the good things it does, which is why it really bugs me that the network lately gives airtime to some quack health guru types (along with other motivational speakers like that Orman) hawking their platitudes and feel-good pseudoscience to glassy-eyed audiences raptly nodding along. Ugh.
 
2012-12-10 01:54:51 AM
One of the little-known features of the new healthcare act from the beginning has been that it sharply increases medical expenses for poor people even while increasing their coverage. The Roberts court ruling on Medicaid will potentially make this worse and require some kind of legislative fix. The other worry has been that the minimum coverage provisions for employers may, in effect, nearly double the cost of hiring minimum wage workers, since the new, required coverage costs nearly as much as the minimum wage itself. This could lead to massive layoffs of the poorest workers and would also seem to demand some kind of urgent fix.


great law, obama
 
2012-12-10 06:04:43 AM

NewportBarGuy: So, this is how Democracy dies?

I wanted to be ripped off by some dude calling himself a doctor and selling me vitamins for $300 a pop :(

Damn you Fartbama!


Isn't that what hospitals do?
 
2012-12-10 06:11:10 AM

Isildur: I value PBS and the good things it does, which is why it really bugs me that the network lately gives airtime to some quack health guru types (along with other motivational speakers like that Orman) hawking their platitudes and feel-good pseudoscience to glassy-eyed audiences raptly nodding along. Ugh.


Examples Please? That sounds more like your local station selling extra air time than something approved by PBS directly.
 
2012-12-10 07:03:04 AM
By definition, alternative medicine is medicine either proven not to work, or not proven not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine proven to work? "MEDICINE".
 
2012-12-10 07:13:37 AM

Little_Dictator: James Randi on Homeopathy

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x248]


Randi is one of those guys who I hate to agree with, because he can be a real douchebag about it. Personally, I don't see the problem in people indulging in alternative medicine, faith healing, or farking voodoo if they think it will help, as long as they speak to a regular doctor first and try real medicine. People need hope, and if someone is terminal or it's a long term illness incurable by normal medicine, let them try whatever the fark they want. I lost my aunt to totally treatable cancer because she refused real medicine and instead tried every bit of hokum she could find, so I understand why he does what he does and why it's important people are skeptical.

What bugs me is he would say I'm wrong for laying down salt and casting a ward against evil when I start having night terrors, even if I also saw my doctor and got prazosin first. The funny thing is, a fundamentalist Christian would have the exact same response to my superstitions, and people like Randi don't see the irony in that.
 
2012-12-10 07:29:33 AM

FishStampede: Little_Dictator: James Randi on Homeopathy

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x248]

Randi is one of those guys who I hate to agree with, because he can be a real douchebag about it. Personally, I don't see the problem in people indulging in alternative medicine, faith healing, or farking voodoo if they think it will help, as long as they speak to a regular doctor first and try real medicine. People need hope, and if someone is terminal or it's a long term illness incurable by normal medicine, let them try whatever the fark they want. I lost my aunt to totally treatable cancer because she refused real medicine and instead tried every bit of hokum she could find, so I understand why he does what he does and why it's important people are skeptical.

What bugs me is he would say I'm wrong for laying down salt and casting a ward against evil when I start having night terrors, even if I also saw my doctor and got prazosin first. The funny thing is, a fundamentalist Christian would have the exact same response to my superstitions, and people like Randi don't see the irony in that.


The problem of course being that those alternative medicines can 1 affect actual treatments, causing unwanted interactions and 2 because there are out there and you are saying what's the harm, people will use them instead of real treatments.

Hokum, woo, and snake oil should always be treated as such.

Yes, people need hope.

Science and medicine give hope. You have a far better chance to survive almost any disease today then you did 100 years ago, and doctors are working on new treatments every single day
 
2012-12-10 07:56:07 AM
Guess I'll have to go look in my driveway for "healing crystals" to sell online
 
2012-12-10 08:22:49 AM
 
2012-12-10 08:40:33 AM

FunkOut: I guess you never had tea made from leaves containing psychoactive alkaloids.


You know what you call "alternative or natural remedies" with proven medicinal properties that have been processed into a useful treatment for a disease or its symptoms?

Medicine.

Now go away and stop being stupid.
 
2012-12-10 08:42:44 AM

FishStampede: Personally, I don't see the problem in people indulging in alternative medicine, faith healing, or farking voodoo if they think it will help, as long as they speak to a regular doctor first and try real medicine.


The problem is when people decide to try to treat infectious health problems with alternative medicine, instead of real medicine, and become typhoid maries in the community.
 
2012-12-10 08:46:56 AM

Soymilk: Legit acupuncturists


Acupuncture has been tested scientifically many times. It's never been shown to be more beneficial than a placebo.

At least homeopathy doesn't have the potential to cause lasting harm to someone.
 
2012-12-10 08:48:51 AM

MaxSupernova: Here is a gem that came across my wife's Facebook feed that she was kind enough to share with me.

Well my son, ________ was hit by the flu epidemic today. I am so thankful we didn't get him vaccinated by big pharma!

She is an anti-vaccine person. My wife and I have been so confused by this comment.....


As someone who is personally involved in the care of two intubated patients dying (DYING!) of influenza, I am not getting a kick. Will try to keep this HIPAA safe.

One is elderly with cancer. The fact she's been sick for >2 weeks and might not make it is not a surprise. She was definitely vaccinated, but it doesn't take well in elderly cancer patients. If more people around her had been vaccinated, less chance of her picking it up.

The other is fairly young and previously healthy, although did have a condition known to predispose to severe flu, and did have bacterial superinfection. Without exaggeration, may be the sickest patient in the entire hospital. Don't know if she got the shot or not, but again, if more people around her had gotten it, there would have been less chance of catching it. I hope she makes it.
 
2012-12-10 08:51:40 AM

FunkOut: Matrix Flavored Wasabi:
Have you ever held a spinal cord? It's basically a bunch of spaghetti.

/tastes like it too
//I keed

There's nothing like the great taste of formalin and phenol.


He's talking about FRESH spinal cord, not that preserved crap.

/Um, I think.
 
2012-12-10 09:01:27 AM

bhcompy: jaytkay: bhcompy: Obamacare doomed the HMO my grandparents had through their employer.

How?

Massive cost increases year after year since the signing of the bill caused a mass reduction in people opting for the HMO which caused the company to lose justification of having that as an option because of the expense. From a coverage perspective, premiums increased, items covered dropped, and the prescription drug plan was gutted. That said, it was still the best option for people that were looking to manage costs(rather than premium costs)


Well not to sound like an insensitive jerk but WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
 
2012-12-10 09:03:46 AM
I took my mother out to a restaurant last Saturday and we overheard the following conversation.

Baby: *crying*
Waiter: Oh whats your name little guy?
Mother: Isaac, sorry about the noise he is teething
Waiter:I'm not one of those people who believe in that sort of thing or anything but those amber pendants for babies really do work for teething pain.
Mother:He's wearing one it would be much worse if he wasn't.


I felt like slapping both of them. If you think you should be doing something to alleviate teething pain then do something. Don't just slap some jewelry on your kid and ignore his shrieks of pain and for the love of god why did you bring a teething infant to a goddamned restaurant?
 
2012-12-10 09:43:23 AM

FunkOut: Yes, homeopathy is a hoax which means massage never works and you can eat buckets of any herb you want without having any effect.


Sounds like you don't understand the definition of homeopathy. What you are thinking of are more along the lines of herbal remedies which are not entirely without merit. Aspirin came from the bark of the willow tree, afterall.

Homeopathy on the other hand is the idea that a substance can be diluted down to the point where there is a statistically insignificant amount remaining and that reduction amounts to an increased or "magically" effect on the potency. Otherwise known as complete and utter nonsense.
 
2012-12-10 09:44:45 AM
imgup.networkpanda.com

Obama's headache medicine?
 
2012-12-10 09:58:55 AM

FishStampede: Little_Dictator: James Randi on Homeopathy

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x248]

Randi is one of those guys who I hate to agree with, because he can be a real douchebag about it. Personally, I don't see the problem in people indulging in alternative medicine, faith healing, or farking voodoo if they think it will help, as long as they speak to a regular doctor first and try real medicine. People need hope, and if someone is terminal or it's a long term illness incurable by normal medicine, let them try whatever the fark they want. I lost my aunt to totally treatable cancer because she refused real medicine and instead tried every bit of hokum she could find, so I understand why he does what he does and why it's important people are skeptical.

What bugs me is he would say I'm wrong for laying down salt and casting a ward against evil when I start having night terrors, even if I also saw my doctor and got prazosin first. The funny thing is, a fundamentalist Christian would have the exact same response to my superstitions, and people like Randi don't see the irony in that.


From an actual medical point of view, you would be wrong to lay down salt to ward away evil dreams. The problem is, in the situation you're putting forward (going to the doctor first, then doing the crazy nonsense stuff afterward), many people tend to skip the doctor part. They either self diagnose and buy some homeopathic snake oil or they go to a faith healer who uses their "positive energy" to "heal" them. Fortunately, because as it turns out diagnosing someone correctly can often take more than Google searching your alleged symptoms, most of these people have something that isn't serious that goes away on its own. Unfortunately, because they never saw a real medical doctor and went with witchcraft instead, they think the witchcraft cured them. This is bad, because the next time an illness rolls into their life, it might be something that can kill them if they don't get proper treatment and they will have trained themselves to go with the ineffective homeopathic cures and faith healers.
 
2012-12-10 10:05:10 AM

FunkOut: Fark It: FunkOut: MightyPez: FunkOut: What I wrote was making fun of the kneejerk reaction people who write off anything that isn't standard medicine as kooky New Age garbage.

You're the only person to have brought it up.

Headline calling all alternative medicine/integrative medicine the same as the wonderful fairy magic field of homeopathy? Really?

You're the one who came in here with a lame defense of homeopathy and the notion that 'herbs' are somehow on an equal footing with massage therapy that a doctor has prescribed/referred.

What you wrote was, in your words, knee-jerk New Age garbage.

Still shiatty reading comprehension. You imagined a defense of homeopathy. Confusing herbal remedies with homeopathy is stupid, guess why? You can't die from taking homeopathic remedies. You can die from herbal remedies. Because herbal remedies contain actual chemical substances that will affect you, unlike homeopathy. People go out and take herbal remedies on top of their medication without any knowledge of dangerous interactions that could occur.

And those silly people with their opium poppy derivatives for back pain...


Pssst. If you have to explain the joke, then it wasn't funny.
 
2012-12-10 10:05:26 AM

Egoy3k: I felt like slapping both of them. If you think you should be doing something to alleviate teething pain then do something. Don't just slap some jewelry on your kid and ignore his shrieks of pain and for the love of god why did you bring a teething infant to a goddamned restaurant?


I hate situations like that. I know there is a profound amount of ignorance in the world, but if I dwell on it all it does is disturb and depress me. So I do my best to ignore it because people are going to be stupid, ignorant farks and really there isn't anything that can be done about it. But then every now and then I'm forcibly reminded of just how ignorant they are by overhearing a remark like that. I want to walk up to them and correct them, but I know that it won't do any good and more likely will deepen their distrust for actual knowledge even further.
 
2012-12-10 10:07:59 AM

FishStampede: Little_Dictator: James Randi on Homeopathy

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x248]

Randi is one of those guys who I hate to agree with, because he can make me feel like total idiot for the idiotic things I choose to believe, even though I admitted they were stupid in the first place.


FTFY.
 
2012-12-10 10:31:57 AM

FishStampede: What bugs me is he would say I'm wrong for laying down salt and casting a ward against evil when I start having night terrors, even if I also saw my doctor and got prazosin first.


He'd be the first to admit that homeopathy works as well as any other placebo.
 
2012-12-10 10:45:52 AM
If people are going to argue, they need to have more different names than "Fark It" and "FunkOut". It's just too confusing. I don't argue with any of the other Bacons on here for that very reason.
 
2012-12-10 10:55:28 AM

Raharu: FishStampede: Little_Dictator: James Randi on Homeopathy

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x248]

Randi is one of those guys who I hate to agree with, because he can be a real douchebag about it. Personally, I don't see the problem in people indulging in alternative medicine, faith healing, or farking voodoo if they think it will help, as long as they speak to a regular doctor first and try real medicine. People need hope, and if someone is terminal or it's a long term illness incurable by normal medicine, let them try whatever the fark they want. I lost my aunt to totally treatable cancer because she refused real medicine and instead tried every bit of hokum she could find, so I understand why he does what he does and why it's important people are skeptical.

What bugs me is he would say I'm wrong for laying down salt and casting a ward against evil when I start having night terrors, even if I also saw my doctor and got prazosin first. The funny thing is, a fundamentalist Christian would have the exact same response to my superstitions, and people like Randi don't see the irony in that.

The problem of course being that those alternative medicines can 1 affect actual treatments, causing unwanted interactions and 2 because there are out there and you are saying what's the harm, people will use them instead of real treatments.

Hokum, woo, and snake oil should always be treated as such.

Yes, people need hope.

Science and medicine give hope. You have a far better chance to survive almost any disease today then you did 100 years ago, and doctors are working on new treatments every single day


It is called "practicing medicine" for a very good reason.
 
2012-12-10 11:23:16 AM

FunkOut: Also, that all herbal medicine is fake and has no effect on people.


Treating pain with herbs like willow bark or spiraea? Or maybe foxglove if you are having chest pains and heart arhythmia?
That's called medicine, not alternative medicine.
 
2012-12-10 01:50:20 PM
I take low dose naltrexone for IBD and it put me in remission.

I guess it's easy for some to point and laugh at the sick people who have hard choices to make regarding their health care. Lets see... take a biologic medication the suppresses your immune system and causes cancer or try out a drug with less side-effects?

I'm clearly an idiot for trying a safer drug first.
 
2012-12-10 02:13:49 PM

Great Porn Dragon: 2) As at least one other person in the thread has noted, naltrexone is not an immunodepressant or immunomodulator in any sense of the word--elderberry wine is more of an immunomodulator (at least that has shown some positive results in German trials in calming down a cytokine storm). Naltrexone is an opoid antagonist which was (as another Farker pointed out) originally developed for maintenance therapy of people addicted to opiates like heroin (basically it prevents you from really getting high from shooting up)--nowadays, it's actually much more commonly used in treatment of alcoholism, as it helps folks maintain a desire not to drink (basically it blocks some of the natural opoids the body produces, and produces much more of when one is a chronic alcoholic) without some of the horrid effects of Antabuse. There really is no way it can act as an immunodepressant, and if there was some efficacy in that treatment, it would show the kid had some other disorder altogether (honestly, probably some disorder more amenable to seeing an actual mental health professional).


Yes. That is what Naltrexone is used for. Have you ever read what it can do in low doses? There have been actual clinical trials for low dose naltrexone for IBD at Penn State and the lead doctor now works for NIH. This isn't just a bunch of hocus pocus. It works and I'm living proof. You should read the science behind what LDN can do. It's very interesting and I'm glad to have found out about it. It turned things around for me in days.

Go to pubmed and search for naltrexone and ibd.

You people that make fun of this but don't have an autoimmune condition can suck my anus. I'm better now and my immune system isn't suppressed. I have energy to lead a productive life and I don't get sick anymore.
 
2012-12-10 02:20:07 PM

natawheee: I take low dose naltrexone for IBD and it put me in remission.

I guess it's easy for some to point and laugh at the sick people who have hard choices to make regarding their health care. Lets see... take a biologic medication the suppresses your immune system and causes cancer or try out a drug with less side-effects?

I'm clearly an idiot for trying a safer drug first.


Do you take methadone whenever you have a headache?
 
2012-12-10 03:10:20 PM

rebelyell2006: natawheee: I take low dose naltrexone for IBD and it put me in remission.

I guess it's easy for some to point and laugh at the sick people who have hard choices to make regarding their health care. Lets see... take a biologic medication the suppresses your immune system and causes cancer or try out a drug with less side-effects?

I'm clearly an idiot for trying a safer drug first.

Do you take methadone whenever you have a headache?


I don't take narcotics. What are you getting at? I think you have no clue about the subject.
 
2012-12-10 03:14:34 PM

natawheee: rebelyell2006: natawheee: I take low dose naltrexone for IBD and it put me in remission.

I guess it's easy for some to point and laugh at the sick people who have hard choices to make regarding their health care. Lets see... take a biologic medication the suppresses your immune system and causes cancer or try out a drug with less side-effects?

I'm clearly an idiot for trying a safer drug first.

Do you take methadone whenever you have a headache?

I don't take narcotics. What are you getting at? I think you have no clue about the subject.


Then why are you taking an opioid dependency drug?
 
2012-12-10 03:31:06 PM
Because it has an off-label use that has proven to be beneficial to Crohn's disease. If you care to look it up on pubmed, there was a clinical trial done at Penn State for its use in promoting mucosal healing in Crohn's disease at very low doses (4.5mg to be exact). That is why I am taking it.
 
2012-12-10 03:44:41 PM
Everyone who thought FunkOut was advocating bullshiat "alternative medicine" fails at reading comprehension. It was a gentle defense of acceptable medical treatments that don't involve pills. You guys should really re-read the statements that were made. I love poking fun at alt-med morons too, but this person has not said anything that would suggest they are one of them.

Maybe you should all settle down with some chamomile tea? ^_^
 
2012-12-10 05:17:07 PM

LesserEvil: [imgup.networkpanda.com image 320x240]

Obama's headache medicine?


Obviously you are ignorant of the medical benefits supported by the TRUE anecdotes of this amazing menthol scented wax stick.
 
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