If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   All cars made after 2014 will be legally required to spy on drivers   (autos.yahoo.com) divider line 102
    More: PSA, Ford Crown Victoria, 37th state, recorders, data store, data points, cars, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration  
•       •       •

7279 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Dec 2012 at 2:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



102 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-12-09 10:03:57 AM
This has actually been a requirement on a lot of cars since 2006. My car has one. There's nothing sinister about what they record: vehicle speed, whether or not the gas or brakes pedals are applied, etc. The device has limited memory, it records a couple minutes of data before it get overwritten and stops recording when the airbag is deployed.

The main reason for having it is the make the insurance claims process a lot quicker and cheaper by verifying exactly what was going on at the time of the crash. If someone claims they were doing 20 mph and braking at the time of the accident and the data recorder says they were actually doing a steady 50 mph . . . well . . . you can expect a lot more out-of-court settlements.
 
2012-12-09 10:11:50 AM

NutWrench: This has actually been a requirement on a lot of cars since 2006. My car has one. There's nothing sinister about what they record: vehicle speed, whether or not the gas or brakes pedals are applied, etc. The device has limited memory, it records a couple minutes of data before it get overwritten and stops recording when the airbag is deployed.

The main reason for having it is the make the insurance claims process a lot quicker and cheaper by verifying exactly what was going on at the time of the crash. If someone claims they were doing 20 mph and braking at the time of the accident and the data recorder says they were actually doing a steady 50 mph . . . well . . . you can expect a lot more out-of-court settlements.


I thought the original reason for black boxes was manufacturers covering their arses when claims that airbags didn't deploy.

The new boxes are going to record everything from your seat position to how loud you were playing the radio. (and everything in between)
 
2012-12-09 10:22:15 AM
"By understanding how drivers respond in a crash and whether key safety systems operate properly, NHTSA and automakers can make our vehicles and our roadways even safer," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. "This proposal will give us the critical insight and information we need to save more lives."

the legislature is gonna think this is totally awesome...right up until one of them gets caught driving drunk and their black box recorder verifies they wiped out a bunch of nuns by driving stupidly. THEN we'll see 'privacy concerns' get written into the laws again.
 
2012-12-09 10:30:09 AM
http://jalopnik.com/5966628/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-bla c k-boxes-coming-to-your-next-car


CAR TECH
DEC 7, 2012 2:45 PM 63,282 358 Share


GET OUR TOP STORIES
FOLLOW JALOPNIK


Everything You Need To Know About The Black Boxes Coming To Your Next Car
Jason Torchinsky
It's looking very likely that a bill in Congress that will make mandatory the use of "black boxes"- more formally, Event Data Recorders (EDR) - will become law soon. These are little computers clad in rugged casings that record data from your car's various sensors and computers to use for accident investigation and, very likely, other uses.

There's lots of privacy concerns around this new bill, and lots of questions as to exactly what that little boxy black snitch is snooping on. Plus, what about the voluntary black boxes some insurance carriers are offering? Let's see what we can clear up.
1. It's pretty likely your car already has an EDR.
GM was the pioneer here, starting to install them in the late '90s, and by 2005 a number of marques (GM, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki) were putting them on everything. According to the NHTSA, about 91.6% of cars currently have them. Here's a list. Notable exceptions are Audi and Mercedes-Benz, but this new law will change that.

If you're like many of us Jalops, myself included, you may be driving a car that predates OBD-anything, so, unless you have a very technologically adventurous stalker, you likely don't have one. The law does not appear to require retrofitting the devices to, say, your King Midget.

2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going. So your drug-prostitute-deep fried food secret habits are still safe, as long as you don't get in a wreck with your hookers and crack and mouthful of fried cheese.

3. Okay, what do these things record?
Great question, disembodied voice. And a surprisingly tricky answer to find. Most articles just mentioned the bill requires 15 separate data points to be recorded, without listing what they are. While more data can be recorded based on manufacturers' own desires, these are the 15 data points that would be required by the new law- well, this list has 17, so maybe there's a couple others:

Change in forward crash speed
Maximum change in forward crash speed
Time from beginning of crash at which the maximum change in forward crash speed occurs
Speed vehicle was traveling
Percentage of engine throttle, percentage full (how far the accelerator pedal was pressed)
Whether or not brake was applied
Ignition cycle (number of power cycles applied to the EDR) at the time of the crash
Ignition cycle (number of power cycles applied to the EDR) when the EDR data were downloaded
Whether or not driver was using safety belt
Whether or not frontal airbag warning lamp was on
Driver frontal airbag deployment: time to deploy for a single stage airbag, or time to first stage deployment for a multistage airbag
Right front passenger frontal airbag deployment: time to deploy for a single stage airbag, or time to first stage deployment for a multistage airbag
Number of crash events
Time between first two crash events, if applicable
Whether or not EDR completed recording
As you can tell, most of this data is designed to aid in accident investigations, to help determine who was at fault, if any laws were broken, and to determine driver input compared to car performance to aid in investigations like the Toyota unintended acceleration incidents.

4. Who owns this data?
This is actually the best part about this new law, because it clearly states that you, the car's owner, owns the data. I don't think any of us are thrilled about having these things in our cars, but if it's going to happen anyway, a law like this is needed to protect car owners. I'm a firm believer that any and all data your car generates should be the easily-accessible property of the owner. As the IIHS says on their site about this:

EDRs and the data they store belong to vehicle owners. Police, insurers, researchers, automakers and others may gain access to the data with owner consent. Without consent, access may be obtained through a court order. For example, in a Florida criminal case involving a vehicular manslaughter charge, the police obtained a warrant to access the EDR data.

For crashes that don't involve litigation, especially when police or insurers are interested in assessing fault, insurers may be able to access the EDRs in their policyholders' vehicles based on provisions in the insurance contract requiring policyholders to cooperate with the insurer. However, some states prohibit insurance contracts from requiring policyholders to consent to access.

I'd be more concerned about what private insurance companies would do with this data than I am what the police would do with it, so if you're in a state that allows your insurance company to require you to let them access the data, make sure you carefully read your contract.

The fact that the data is your property will also prevent it from being used by advertisers and/or dealerships (whew) and law enforcement agencies will normally need a warrant to get the data. This point about requiring a warrant has already been tested in court, with the appeals court reversing an original manslaughter conviction of a California driver, stating of the police's access to the driver's Yukon's EDR data:

"We conclude that a motorist's subjective and reasonable expectation of privacy with regard to her or his own vehicle encompasses the digital data held in the vehicle's SDM."

That means the cops can't bully your car into testifying against you, its loving owner.



5. How is the data retrieved from the EDR?
The data is retrieved via either a connection to your ODB port in your car, or, if you had a really dramatic wreck that left your car strewn over a quarter mile of highway, the EDR itself may be removed from the mess and the data retrieved directly.

In order to help enforce the idea that the data is the owner's property, there have been proposals (and this patent) for lockable OBD port access panels.

6. So if it's my data, can it be used against me in court?
Oh hell yes. You own it, but warrants can be gotten, data can be downloaded, and, potentially, you could be screwed. Or vindicated. It's just data.

More alarming is the potential for unauthorized access, or even inadvertent access to the data. It's happened before, such as in the case of Nissan Leafs sending GPS and speed data in unencrypted text to websites for voluntary crowdsourcing and tracking of fuel economy data.

7. What should I be most concerned about?
This new law itself isn't too bad, in that if we accept that these recorders were already appearing on cars, it's good to have some legal protection of the data. What's more alarming are third-party tracking systems from companies like Progressive, which promise lower rates, but at the cost of making the consumer far more vulnerable. Plus, these private systems are not necessarily subject to the same laws that protect owners for the federally-mandated black boxes.

I sure as hell wouldn't want my insurance company tracking everything I do- their primary goal is to make money, and I don't trust my data would be used for any goals other than that.

8. So how should I feel about all this, in general?
Wary, but not paranoid. This new bill will give a reasonable level of protection, but never forget that while this will likely help greatly for traffic safety and accident investigation, there is a huge privacy hole being opened, and if we're not constantly vigilant and careful, abuses will happen.

As it stands now, with cable-based retrieval, you can have a reasonable degree of assurance that your data is safe. Some companies, like BMW, are experimenting with wireless transmission of this sort of data, to schedule maintenance and alert dealerships of service needs. If this becomes more common, safeguarding data integrity will become a much more difficult issue.

9. Are there any fun upsides?
Maybe, if these things are hackable. I'm picturing some interesting art possibilities using your car's data to produce interesting visualizations. Plus, wouldn't you like to hack this so your car can Tweet it's throttle position every minute? No? Me neither. But I bet there'll be some fun hacks to be found in these things.

(Sources: IIHS, Google Patent Search, Computerworld, Forbes)
 
2012-12-09 10:35:06 AM

Weaver95: "By understanding how drivers respond in a crash and whether key safety systems operate properly, NHTSA and automakers can make our vehicles and our roadways even safer," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. "This proposal will give us the critical insight and information we need to save more lives."

the legislature is gonna think this is totally awesome...right up until one of them gets caught driving drunk and their black box recorder verifies they wiped out a bunch of nuns by driving stupidly. THEN we'll see 'privacy concerns' get written into the laws again.


Driving exhausted, Weaver. EXHAUSTED.

Rich people don't get drunk. They get exhausted.
 
2012-12-09 11:39:40 AM
Most of these black boxes are located under the front passenger seat. Once you know where it is, it is fairly easy to disable or dispose of.

Oops! The cable came out. How did that happen?
 
2012-12-09 01:33:15 PM
i guess i'll stick to driving my 20yo car then
 
2012-12-09 01:44:58 PM

NutWrench: This has actually been a requirement on a lot of cars since 2006. My car has one. There's nothing sinister about what they record: vehicle speed, whether or not the gas or brakes pedals are applied, etc. The device has limited memory, it records a couple minutes of data before it get overwritten and stops recording when the airbag is deployed.

The main reason for having it is the make the insurance claims process a lot quicker and cheaper by verifying exactly what was going on at the time of the crash. If someone claims they were doing 20 mph and braking at the time of the accident and the data recorder says they were actually doing a steady 50 mph . . . well . . . you can expect a lot more out-of-court settlements.


I'm all for it if it makes those poor, neglected insurance companies feel better.
 
2012-12-09 01:50:05 PM

Weaver95: "By understanding how drivers respond in a crash and whether key safety systems operate properly, NHTSA and automakers can make our vehicles and our roadways even safer," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. "This proposal will give us the critical insight and information we need to save more lives."

the legislature is gonna think this is totally awesome...right up until one of them gets caught driving drunk and their black box recorder verifies they wiped out a bunch of nuns by driving stupidly. THEN we'll see 'privacy concerns' get written into the laws again.


And thats not all. Just imagine a trial lawyer's delight in a bitter custody or divorce getting to subpoena the record of where the other party was on a particular date and time. Imagine the fun.
 
2012-12-09 01:51:22 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Most of these black boxes are located under the front passenger seat. Once you know where it is, it is fairly easy to disable or dispose of.

Oops! The cable came out. How did that happen?


And you committed a crime similar to operating a motor vehicle without insurance. How did that happen.
 
2012-12-09 02:01:13 PM

Generation_D: And you committed a crime similar to operating a motor vehicle without insurance. How did that happen.


www.lolwut.com
 
2012-12-09 02:04:36 PM

Generation_D: And thats not all. Just imagine a trial lawyer's delight in a bitter custody or divorce getting to subpoena the record of where the other party was on a particular date and time. Imagine the fun.


Pretty sure they're not equipped with GPS, so no, that won't be happening.
 
2012-12-09 02:06:57 PM

Generation_D: Marcus Aurelius: Most of these black boxes are located under the front passenger seat. Once you know where it is, it is fairly easy to disable or dispose of.

Oops! The cable came out. How did that happen?

And you committed a crime similar to operating a motor vehicle without insurance. How did that happen.


Hey, sodas sometimes get spilled...
 
2012-12-09 02:09:54 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Generation_D: And thats not all. Just imagine a trial lawyer's delight in a bitter custody or divorce getting to subpoena the record of where the other party was on a particular date and time. Imagine the fun.

Pretty sure they're not equipped with GPS, so no, that won't be happening.


not yet, you mean. wouldn't take much to connect the black box to the GPS system, then use that data to reconstruct where you were in the half hour prior to the accident.
 
2012-12-09 02:12:29 PM
Pertinent data from the article.

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says it will require all new U.S. vehicles to have black boxes by Sept. 1, 2014, noting that 96 percent of 2013 models already come with them standard. The new proposal does not change the 15 types of data black boxes should record when it senses a crash."
 
2012-12-09 02:22:23 PM
But your honor, the black box said he was doing 100 mph in his 1989 ford fiesta with one cylinder not firing.
 
2012-12-09 02:25:20 PM
If I own the car and I own the data, why can't I turn these things off?
 
2012-12-09 02:27:03 PM

Weaver95: Pokey.Clyde: Generation_D: And thats not all. Just imagine a trial lawyer's delight in a bitter custody or divorce getting to subpoena the record of where the other party was on a particular date and time. Imagine the fun.

Pretty sure they're not equipped with GPS, so no, that won't be happening.

not yet, you mean. wouldn't take much to connect the black box to the GPS system, then use that data to reconstruct where you were in the half hour prior to the accident.


They can already do that. E-ZPass records, cell phone records and geotagged pictures uploaded to Facebook.

doyner: NutWrench: This has actually been a requirement on a lot of cars since 2006. My car has one. There's nothing sinister about what they record: vehicle speed, whether or not the gas or brakes pedals are applied, etc. The device has limited memory, it records a couple minutes of data before it get overwritten and stops recording when the airbag is deployed.

The main reason for having it is the make the insurance claims process a lot quicker and cheaper by verifying exactly what was going on at the time of the crash. If someone claims they were doing 20 mph and braking at the time of the accident and the data recorder says they were actually doing a steady 50 mph . . . well . . . you can expect a lot more out-of-court settlements.

I'm all for it if it makes those poor, neglected insurance companies feel better.


Watch as insurance companies start requiring policyholders to turn over the blackbox on demand or have their claim denied and/or insurance canceled.
 
2012-12-09 02:33:54 PM
Yeah, the "idea" of freedom is more important than common farking sense. Let's roll with that.
 
2012-12-09 02:34:16 PM
Can I read the data and verify it against my own readings from sensors not attached to ECU? Then this thing should be disabled until the software to do is is forced into public domain with the source released.

/will stick with his 16 year old ride
 
2012-12-09 02:37:55 PM

APE992: will stick with his 16 year old ride


My '66 Mustang laughs at black boxes.
 
2012-12-09 02:38:21 PM

dustman81: Watch as insurance companies start requiring policyholders to turn over the blackbox on demand or have their claim denied and/or insurance canceled.


Very likely this will be true. They won't force you to hand over the data, but they'll jack up everyone's premiums and then give generous "discounts" to those who comply.
 
2012-12-09 02:43:57 PM
I don't see a huge problem with this if it only captures data that can really only be used to help determine what happened in a crash, like pedal use and speed, and only with a short buffer. Blatant dual-use data like GPS would be excluded. You should be able to disable it if you own the car, but insurance companies should be able to charge you more for that (or conversely give a discount if you keep it). If any insurance company wants to require to outright, they can see how the market responds.
 
2012-12-09 02:45:09 PM
I see Raharu already handled this one.

If you drive a newer car, you've already got one of these. They've been in just about everything for a long time. It's how the manufacturer knows you were out drag racing when your clutch failed, and why they deiced to cancel your warranty.
 
2012-12-09 02:48:20 PM
"2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going. So your drug-prostitute-deep fried food secret habits are still safe, as long as you don't get in a wreck with your hookers and crack and mouthful of fried cheese."


Why is it that whenever someone wants to make an argument for privacy or not being manipulated and controlled for someone else's benefit we get this kind of horseshiat?
It's not even remotely funny.
 
2012-12-09 02:49:38 PM
Is it against the law to disable or remove them? Might be a nice little side hustle.
 
2012-12-09 02:52:19 PM

Farty McPooPants: "2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going. So your drug-prostitute-deep fried food secret habits are still safe, as long as you don't get in a wreck with your hookers and crack and mouthful of fried cheese."

Why is it that whenever someone wants to make an argument for privacy or not being manipulated and controlled for someone else's benefit we get this kind of horseshiat?
It's not even remotely funny.


It's exaggerated for laughs (and yes, it is kind of funny, and humor is subjective so accept it). At the core, though, what is it that worries you? The data being collected, or it being misused to harm you?

IF it's the latter, don't fight the technology, fight the abuse. Push for oversight that prevents anyone from abusing the data.

Fighting technology, or Data, is a losing proposition. It's more important to fight for responsibly applied tech.
 
2012-12-09 02:53:00 PM

lewismarktwo: If I own the car and I own the data, why can't I turn these things off?


this this and ONLY THIS
in fact, that sounds like yet another scotus case
 
2012-12-09 02:53:05 PM

BunkyBrewman: The new boxes are going to record everything from your seat position to how loud you were playing the radio. (and everything in between)


From which AM radio bloviator did you learn this "fact"?
 
2012-12-09 02:54:42 PM

Raharu: 4. Who owns this data?
This is actually the best part about this new law, because it clearly states that you, the car's owner, owns the data.


i212.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-09 03:00:30 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Most of these black boxes are located under the front passenger seat. Once you know where it is, it is fairly easy to disable or dispose of.

Oops! The cable came out. How did that happen?


Funny, the EDM is usually part of the airbag controller module, which also supplies information to other systems with its sensors, is NEVER positioned in some place like underneath a seat where water can get to it, and if you just unplug it, you disable at least two different networks and you won't even be able to start the car since the BCM and PCM are on opposite ends of the high speed CAN.

But yes, there's a discrete black box that you just unplug.
 
kab
2012-12-09 03:01:52 PM

lewismarktwo: If I own the car and I own the data, why can't I turn these things off?


Because in the land of the free, you don't own your car once you decide to use it on a public road.
 
2012-12-09 03:03:28 PM
TFA:
...96 percent of 2013 models already come with [black boxes] standard...

Knee-jerk reactions from paranoid Farkers with reading comprehension problems and a lack of real-world knowledge:

"i guess i'll stick to driving my 20yo car then"

"The new boxes are going to record everything from your seat position to how loud you were playing the radio."

"Why is it that whenever someone wants to make an argument for privacy or not being manipulated and controlled for someone else's benefit we get this kind of horseshiat?
It's not even remotely funny."

"Yeah, the "idea" of freedom is more important than common farking sense. Let's roll with that."

"wouldn't take much to connect the black box to the GPS system"

"Most of these black boxes are located under the front passenger seat. Once you know where it is, it is fairly easy to disable or dispose of." 
 
2012-12-09 03:06:38 PM

lewismarktwo: If I own the car and I own the data, why can't I turn these things off?


You can, but you don't own the roads that you operate the car on, so there's kind of an ambiguity there.

And then there's the legal ramifications that may be involved if you get into a collision with a car that had safety devices that you knowingly disabled. Will your insurance pay for medical expenses if you disable your airbags? Even if the presence of airbags would have made no difference? Let's say that the yaw sensor that the stability control system requires is built into the airbag module. They could argue that the car's stability control would have prevented the collision, so not only are they not paying out, but the collision was your fault because you knowingly disabled that device...
 
2012-12-09 03:08:22 PM

LasersHurt: At the core, though, what is it that worries you? The data being collected, or it being misused to harm you?


The data being misused, and the additional complexity being added to cars. I also don't even want the data to be used as expected, because I break the law behind the wheel. I break the law all the time, everyone does. Investigation and prosecution costs keep my daily victimless crime spree of going 48 in a 45 from ruining my life. Automation like this will bury me and many people in red tape, and until a reasonable level of enforcement is worked out, will be applied selectively and with all the accuracy large institutions are famous for.

Just make the cars drive themselves already for Christ's sake.
 
2012-12-09 03:10:51 PM

mccallcl: LasersHurt: At the core, though, what is it that worries you? The data being collected, or it being misused to harm you?

The data being misused, and the additional complexity being added to cars. I also don't even want the data to be used as expected, because I break the law behind the wheel. I break the law all the time, everyone does. Investigation and prosecution costs keep my daily victimless crime spree of going 48 in a 45 from ruining my life. Automation like this will bury me and many people in red tape, and until a reasonable level of enforcement is worked out, will be applied selectively and with all the accuracy large institutions are famous for.

Just make the cars drive themselves already for Christ's sake.


Current expectations are that some driverless production models will start rolling out around 2015, though I suspect this will vary based on laws and manufacturer's choices. Google's saying the same thing, roughly 5 years. Of course they'll have the boxes, more complexity, and gather MORE data than these do. So your personal desire for them might wane.
 
2012-12-09 03:11:20 PM
I can't wait until insurance companies start requiring dash cams.

Sure Russia has more speeding, worse maintenance, and maybe more stickups than the US, but in my life of driving I have witnessed around 5 events that would be on YouTube had I a dash cam. Multiply that 5 by 200 million drivers gives a large pants-load of videos.
 
2012-12-09 03:13:37 PM

Stone Meadow: APE992: will stick with his 16 year old ride

My '66 Mustang laughs at black boxes.


www.diyautotune.com

My '84 Mazda geeks out with its open-source EFI.

/5 inches of vacuum @ 1500rpm idle, shrieking powercurve into 5-digit range, drivability like a Camry
/try that with a carb
 
2012-12-09 03:15:39 PM
I expect I'll own a post-2010 vehicle by about 2030, and by that time I'll be too old to care if you monitor me driving 14 mph to the pot shop.
 
2012-12-09 03:18:02 PM
These things are rabidly becoming irrelevant anyway. As cameras become cheaper, nearly every major city is putting them on every intersection and every block, and you can bet they will be on every stretch of highway soon enough. At $20 per camera, it's cheaper than most existing monitoring systems, even if all you want to know if how deep the snowfall is.

If everything you do while driving is on camera, how does a black box further intrude on your privacy?
 
2012-12-09 03:20:28 PM

Mister Peejay: Stone Meadow: APE992: will stick with his 16 year old ride

My '66 Mustang laughs at black boxes.

[www.diyautotune.com image 635x376]

My '84 Mazda geeks out with its open-source EFI.

/5 inches of vacuum @ 1500rpm idle, shrieking powercurve into 5-digit range, drivability like a Camry
/try that with a carb


Dude...I said "black" boxes, not shiny ones. ;^)

Actually thinking of converting to MS. OTOH, carbs are easy, and my engine still has points.
 
2012-12-09 03:22:25 PM
Generation_D 2012-12-09 01:50:05 PM

Just imagine a trial lawyer's delight in a bitter custody or divorce getting to subpoena the record of where the other party was on a particular date and time. Imagine the fun.


2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going
.


2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going
.

2. It's not a tracking device for f**k's sake!!
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going
.
 
2012-12-09 03:24:10 PM
The boxes themselves can't be turned off or disabled

www.cheapbikeparts360.com
 
2012-12-09 03:25:47 PM

Kittypie070: Generation_D 2012-12-09 01:50:05 PM

Just imagine a trial lawyer's delight in a bitter custody or divorce getting to subpoena the record of where the other party was on a particular date and time. Imagine the fun.


2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going.

2. It's not a tracking device.
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going.

2. It's not a tracking device for f**k's sake!!
These black boxes are not GPS devices, and do not track where you're going.


So much this. Stop worrying about your black box, and start worrying about the data leaking out of your smartphone, which contains all the info you're paranoid about, except that instead of you legally owning the data, Apple, Google or the app manufacturer owns it.
 
2012-12-09 03:34:25 PM
That's okay. The CAFE standards are going to force Ford to stop putting V8s in regular mustang GT's anyway, so I'll just pick up a used 2013ish.
 
2012-12-09 03:35:41 PM

leviosaurus:

So much this. Stop worrying about your black box, and start worrying about the data leaking out of your smartphone, which contains all the info you're paranoid about, except that instead of you legally owning the data, Apple, Google or the app manufacturer owns it.


Not only that, but people WANT to be tracked! What do you people think you're doing when you're constantly updating social media, or using store points cards? "Hey guys, come track me! Please? Here, let me pay you to know what I'm doing!"
 
2012-12-09 03:45:47 PM

BunkyBrewman: I thought the original reason for black boxes was manufacturers covering their arses when claims that airbags didn't deploy.

The new boxes are going to record everything from your seat position to how loud you were playing the radio. (and everything in between)


As an auto engineer who deals with electronics, odds are if you wreck your car I can get all that of that anyway. I'd just have to look at a bunch of different systems, but given each system does its own error logging I can piece it together. The black box is just a centralized place so the State Police don't have to come by and pay me money to reconstruct it all. Some of it will be in the ECM, some of it will be in the TCM, some if it will elsewhere.

The other change is that tampering with a black box is a federal offense. In most cases if you just decide to wipe your ECM one afternoon or replace it, that isn't a crime unless law enforcement is seeking it as evidence. I had one case where the individual had his car all modded up for racing, hit another car, fled, and then stripped off all the racing mods and tuning work in attempt to hide evidence he was street racing. A well designed black box is going to note that. If you touch the black box odds are you'll be farked under law instantly.

/in the case of the street racer, I was able to prove he flashed the racing tune off the car as we had built a whole level of logging into the car his tool had no idea about or the ability to even write to
//also in the Toyota sudden acceleration example, a well designed black box is going to make it easier to determine if it is the floor mats or some other issue
 
2012-12-09 03:47:46 PM

Smidge204: The boxes themselves can't be turned off or disabled

[www.cheapbikeparts360.com image 300x300]


And when the processor handling the startup sequence fails to detect the box, your car won't start.
 
2012-12-09 03:49:41 PM
what happens in versa stays in versa
or something like that
 
2012-12-09 03:50:26 PM

Mister Peejay: leviosaurus:

So much this. Stop worrying about your black box, and start worrying about the data leaking out of your smartphone, which contains all the info you're paranoid about, except that instead of you legally owning the data, Apple, Google or the app manufacturer owns it.

Not only that, but people WANT to be tracked! What do you people think you're doing when you're constantly updating social media, or using store points cards? "Hey guys, come track me! Please? Here, let me pay you to know what I'm doing!"


Call me paranoid but I refuse to use my debit cards or credit cards whenever I purchase alcohol, ammo and other such things. I always take out cash instead. I really have no justification or reasoning behind it. I am not on any sort of lists I just don't like those purchases being tracked to me.
 
Displayed 50 of 102 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report