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(Associated Press)   New York only had 34 years' warning to plan for a superstorm - but really, there were more important things like bribes to take, unions to coddle, bribes to take, interns to bang, influence to sell, bribes to take, spam, spam, baked beans and spam   (registerstar.com ) divider line 19
    More: Fail, New York, Current sea level rise, mating, bribes, medical facility, Andrew Cuomo, building codes  
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9010 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 1:40 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-09 03:07:26 PM  
3 votes:
A little perspective:

Since the early 80s, experts were sounding the warning over a "worst case scenario" with a hurricane and New Orleans. Their main fear was a Cat-4 or Cat-5 coming into New Orleans from the southeast, the eye moving up the mouth of the river, bringing a mega-storm surge that would overtop levees and flood the city. In this scenario, flood waters from the overtopped (not failed) levees would mean weeks, or months, of pumping the city dry.

What actually happened: New Orleans was side-swiped by a strong Cat-3 Katrina. Katrina was far from a direct hit; most of the city only got Cat-2 winds. The outflow canals held water that was high, but not overtopping the levees (the floodwalls.) However, due to poor design and maintenance by the Army Corps of Engineers, the levees/floodwalls failed and flooded the city. 

What's the point? The city wasn't protected from scenario #1, because of decades of arguing and incompetence at all levels of government. The city wasn't protected from scenario #2 (Katrina) because the levees would not even stand up to Cat-2 conditions.

About $100 billion and seven years later, the city is largely rebuilt, and the levees are in much better shape. (Well, so we're told.) But, this could have been accomplished 20 years ago at a fraction of the cost, and without killing 1,800 people and flooding 75,000 homes in the process.
2012-12-09 01:55:13 PM  
3 votes:
Well it's good to know that Mike Bloomberg poured his efforts into soda, trans-fats, stop-and-frisk, and gun laws in other states. It takes a true leader to lecture people as if they were children instead of preparing for possible catastrophes.
2012-12-09 01:46:33 PM  
2 votes:

Sticky Hands: so it's just like everywhere else.


This country is being crushed under the weight of its own bureucratic bullshiat. It's good to be a Vogon
2012-12-09 06:23:03 PM  
1 vote:

Mrtraveler01: Radioactive Ass: Mrtraveler01: That's a lot of petulant whining all wrapped up into one post.

The truth hurts huh? You'll get over it.

I guess, but none of that was true.

People blamed Bush for Katrina because he had a farking horse judge run FEMA who was in over his head and horribly incompetent at his job. Obama didn't fark it up Sandy in epic fashion like Bush did and actually worked with states like NY and NJ to make sure they got the help they needed (hence the praise he got from Christie)


In the case of the FEMA response to Katrina in LA by law the federal government (via FEMA) couldn't do crap right off of the bat because a) Louisiana's Governor(D) didn't ask for them for help as soon as she should have and b) the major roads were all wiped out leaving little access for the help to get in as quickly as it could have. People died in NO because their crappy mayor(D) waited until it was too late to call for an evacuation and then failed to use all of the available resources that he did have to get them out (remember the flooded parking lot full of buses?). But people here on Fark gave them a pass for the most part because of the (D) and laid all of the blame on the guy with an (R) next to his name.

Sandy didn't have those issues. Disaster response is the responsibility of the local governments first with follow up from the feds later on (in the order of 3 to 5 days after the disaster is over provided that they can get in). Katrina was a harsh reminder to local governments that that's always been the case and in the case of Sandy they did the opposite of what Louisiana and New Orleans did (or did not do) (this is the hard learned lesson of Katrina), that's why the federal response was seen as being so much better (plus the major roads weren't all wiped out allowing assistance to get in quicker).

But that's deviating from what I said. Mississippi received just as much damage (and FEMA assistance, that was asked for much earlier than it was in LA) from Katrina as NO did but people here on Fark largely didn't give a crap about it because it's a red state.

Notice that I have never said that the FEMA response in NO was great (it wasn't) but an equal if not greater share of the blame for their slow response time and the people who died is laid at the feet of the state and local governments. This fact is rarely if ever mentioned here on Fark.

As to the initial comment (will that get boobied?) that I was responding to, that poster was the one who tried to point to a mayor(R) who has been out of office for 10 years as the reason why NYC had flooding instead of realizing that the potential for flooding was well known for decades and nothing of substance was ever done about it by any mayor (R or D) aside from planning to evacuate when (not if) it did.

But go ahead and get your panties in a bunch when I point out the hypocrisy, it just adds the exclamation point to what I said.
2012-12-09 05:49:21 PM  
1 vote:

whidbey: Doesn't help that more widespread awareness about climate change is only a recent thing.


Actually we have known for more than a century that climate heats and cools in 400--year cycles. It is only recently though that unscrupulous power--mongers have used it as an excuse to stir up the "sheeple" and scare them into paying more money and giving up more freedom.
2012-12-09 05:06:37 PM  
1 vote:

Mrtraveler01: That's a lot of petulant whining all wrapped up into one post.


The truth hurts huh? You'll get over it.
2012-12-09 04:20:09 PM  
1 vote:

Clemkadidlefark: Rwa2play: Apik0r0s: Let me guess, in an effort to piggyback Sandy on Katrina, the Right is claiming that NYC wasted their levee monies on fried chicken and watermelon.

Yeah, this. Especially considering one of their own (Giuliani) had his part to play in their own messes.

Seriously? Seriously??

NYC "Right wing"? NOLA "right wing"?

Wow. Just, wow.


Fark 101:

Well you see, when there's a right wing president and a foreseeable and preventable natural disaster with billions of dollars worth of damage happens after decades of forewarnings saying that it would happen at some point in an area traditionally controlled by the left it's always the sitting right wingers fault. When there's a left wing president in the oval officeyou can no longer do that so you have to go after a politician who left office a full decade prior to that to blame for something that everyone knew was going to happen if certain conditions were met.

Corollary: If it's an area traditionally controlled by the right then it's their own dumb ass fault for building there in the first place and they got what they deserved no matter who is in the oval office. See Katrina and Mississippi for examples of how this works.
2012-12-09 02:27:13 PM  
1 vote:

Gulper Eel: Japan. If you think the Sendai/Fukushima situation was bad, compare it to what happened when a similar quake/tsunami hit off Indonesia eight years ago.


Japan gets hit with big earthquakes every year. Sendai wasn't bad because of any lack of planning, but they sure didn't plan for it. It was bad because it's downright impractical to support an infrastructure that shake off a 9.0 earthquake. It was the worst in Japan's history. This is a total apples & oranges comparison.
2012-12-09 02:13:54 PM  
1 vote:
History shows again and again how nature points up the folly of man.
2012-12-09 02:11:18 PM  
1 vote:
Or maybe just... maybe..

When something doesn't happen for a generation or two, people tend to forget about the risk.

When the New Madrid fault line clicks again, bribery and graft won't be the reason millions die in Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas. Complacency will be the reason, just as it was in NYC.
2012-12-09 02:11:14 PM  
1 vote:
Perhaps if the GOP-controlled Federal government during 2001-2007 had spent hundreds of billions on protecting this area from Mother Nature instead of from Allah, it might have been better.

But, of course, it's unions.
2012-12-09 02:06:48 PM  
1 vote:
I really was surprised that the smug force in NY didn't just stop the tornado in its tracks.
2012-12-09 02:06:12 PM  
1 vote:

dragonchild: Name a government on the planet that plans for disasters years in advance, subby.


The Netherlands. Japan. If you think the Sendai/Fukushima situation was bad, compare it to what happened when a similar quake/tsunami hit off Indonesia eight years ago.

Even California, for all its other dysfunctions, has planned well for seismic events.
2012-12-09 01:56:35 PM  
1 vote:
Name a government on the planet that plans for disasters years in advance, subby. Democracy doesn't make a government good; it just keeps out the dictator bug. Humans will always be stupid and human government will always be stupider.

gerbilpox: Hey, we do the intern-banging in DC! Better step off our turf!


It's OK, NY is a blue state so the escorts interns are female. No need for a turf war.
2012-12-09 01:53:23 PM  
1 vote:
And this won't be brought up, because it's New York City.
2012-12-09 01:45:36 PM  
1 vote:
Corpus Christi has been hit 6 times between 1919 and 1980, an average of once every 10 years.

Since then we have not had a major hurricane, which means 75% of the people in this town have never seen one at all---and 90% have never seen a bad one.

It is a prescription for disaster, Murphy will getcha every time.
2012-12-09 01:45:12 PM  
1 vote:
Let me guess, in an effort to piggyback Sandy on Katrina, the Right is claiming that NYC wasted their levee monies on fried chicken and watermelon.
2012-12-09 01:45:08 PM  
1 vote:
So what you're saying is, it's kind of like the levees in NOLA. Oh human nature, never change

/sarcasm
2012-12-09 01:43:31 PM  
1 vote:
so it's just like everywhere else.
 
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