If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Daily Beast)   Why we need to start having a lot more babies right now. Wait, this is Fark. Why OTHER PEOPLE need to start having a lot more babies right now   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 167
    More: Interesting, Ross Douthat, other people, per capita incomes, Conor Friedersdorf, social cohesion, public investment, time horizon, better things to do  
•       •       •

12909 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



167 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-12-09 01:53:24 PM
The article is about 50% correct.

Intelligent women are too busy pursuing careers to have children, while stupid women are breeding like flies.

The end result is more stupid worthless parasites who can't feed themselves, and fewer and fewer working people who are able---or willing---to do so.
 
2012-12-09 01:53:57 PM

Tommy Moo: Population decline would be a good thing, if only it were actually happening.


actually, there's nothing wrong with the population. it's the activities of certain populations that are exponentially more harmful than just people. if the US would put a fraction of it's effort into wise resource use and innovation there wouldn't be a problem at all. but it's merika and ignorance is the flag of the past half century, and it doesn't look like it will be changing any time soon.
 
2012-12-09 02:08:22 PM

Deep Contact: The future looks bleak. It will consist of only politicians and gov't employees.


Welcome to Northern Virginia. I love you.
 
2012-12-09 02:14:50 PM
The last thing this planet needs is more babies. Africa has a massive surplus of the things. I suggest importing some of them.
 
2012-12-09 02:15:37 PM

violetvolume: WhippingBoy: violetvolume: WhippingBoy: violetvolume: Oh, the freakout over this is so stupid. The human race isn't going to die out. We're not going to descend into chaos. This isn't Children of Men. People aren't having kids because kids are expensive and the economy is bad. We'll all live. The economy will not come crashing down because women aren't having enough babies. IT WILL ALL BE OKAY.

I hate to break it to you, but problems aren't solved by wishful thinking...

Uh.... what?

Naively stating that "there is no problem" and that "IT WILL ALL BE OK" doesn't necessarily make it true.

Do YOU think there's a problem? Do you think all this alarmist stuff about the economy and innovation and everything will actually happen? Sure it COULD, and then there'd be a problem. But a dip in the birth rate during a recession is neither unheard of nor an issue. In fact, it makes sense. People just want to freak out about stuff, and "freaking out about women and babies" is always a topic that's sure to get people's dander up.


Yes. I don't think the 'innovation' issue is worth discussing, but the 'the economy is built on debt and an ever-growing economy' is basically completely true. While it's not the end of the world, it will likely be a major problem. Do you see any politicians even willing to discuss it? One of our political parties in the US is dedicated 100% to only increasing gov't revenue through 'growing the economy' and it is this principle that they base their policies and outreach on (i.e. the 'party of opportunity')
 
2012-12-09 02:24:16 PM

swahnhennessy: The last thing this planet needs is more babies. Africa has a massive surplus of the things. I suggest importing some of them.


Plus, they're pretty cheap.
 
2012-12-09 02:27:58 PM

Non-evil Monkey: Cyrusv10: Yeah, but why do people in third world countries insist on having more babies?

/makes no sense

Actually most 3rd world countries also have declining birth rates too, they just haven't been declining for the same length of time.

Basically when infant mortality rate drops below a certain threshhold, fertility rates plummet. In 1960 there was easily over a dozen countries with a fertility rate over 7, as of 2010 there is only one.

Take a look at this chart I whipped up with google public date for a nice visualization, just press play.


That is damn cool. Thanks
 
2012-12-09 02:30:15 PM
I can't even take care of myself.

I thought the machines were supposed to take over or something.

I'm going to hold out and hope for cloning since I'm so bad with ladies anyway.
 
2012-12-09 02:31:36 PM
I came in here to say I just found out last week I was going to be a father.

PS If it makes people feel better, my entire extended family is engineers, architects or doctors with a minimum of a master's degree, so hopefully it won't be as dumb as people seem to think.
PPS Just finished my master's degree. Was worried about boredom and what to do with my time. Not anymore.
 
2012-12-09 02:36:35 PM
ok, ill volunteer.. line up ladies.. lets get to baking.
 
2012-12-09 02:37:10 PM
Tell you what: I make a low six-figure salary, I work fewer than 60 hours a week, and I get four weeks of paid vacation every year. If you can guarantee me the same salary, hours, and benefits for raising kids that I enjoy in my current job, then I might - might - think about reproducing. Until then, fark you.
 
2012-12-09 02:39:12 PM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: PS - if the US, Europe, and Japan are all competing for immigrants... does immigration solve our problem? Probably aren't enough to go around.


Immigration does not solve the problem. Firstly, the skilled immigrants are in short supply, just like skilled labor in the first world is in short supply. Secondly, within a generation or two they assume the birth rate of their new country. Immigration just kicks the can down the road.
 
2012-12-09 02:49:55 PM

LamOtter: WhippingBoy: Surpheon: Theaetetus: I find that most of the people fearmongering about the declining birth rate are primarily concerned about the declining white birth rate.

Aaannnddd done.

Declining birthrate is not a problem for generations unless you are scared about brown people - who are genetically incapable of being as civilized as you- marrying your kids (your good, white bred kids).

Or maybe people want to preserve their cultural identity. I guess only non-white people are allowed to do that, though.

"Preserve your cultural identity-quit putting your dick in brown people!"


If God didn't want me putting my dick in brown girls, He wouldn't have made them hot.
 
2012-12-09 02:50:00 PM
So long white American culture

www.smokersassociation.org
 
2012-12-09 02:58:53 PM
If we drop the whole nationalism thing and look at humanity at large, we're still growing. So that's nice.
 
2012-12-09 03:00:23 PM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Tell you what: I make a low six-figure salary, I work fewer than 60 hours a week, and I get four weeks of paid vacation every year. If you can guarantee me the same salary, hours, and benefits for raising kids that I enjoy in my current job, then I might - might - think about reproducing. Until then, fark you.


It's probably best that you don't reproduce. No matter how well it pays.
 
2012-12-09 03:01:19 PM

Tommy Moo: The author is a farking moron. More people will not grow the economy if THERE ARE NO JOBS TO GIVE THEM. The marketplace is already supersaturated with labor. More people will just mean more mouths to feed, via welfare, and a lower standard of living for everyone.

Robots will be doing almost everything soon enough. We already replace cops with traffic cameras, assembly workers with robots, and (coming soon) RFID chips to simply deduct from your bank account whatever you walk out of a store with, eliminating the need for retail workers. We need fewer people, not more. Population decline would be a good thing, if only it were actually happening.


I think the issue of the composition of the next generation is a bigger issue than the number. Once it gets to the point that its cheaper to have a machine mow a lawn than a Mexican, our economy, especially for the lower classes, is going to be in a world of hurt. The trend of more highly educated women is fueling the problem in another way. It used to be that most doctors were male, and they would tend to marry their highschool sweetheart, spreading the education and smarts around. Nowadays, that male doctor is marrying a female doctor and their birth rate is lower than average. The money and education is being super-concentrated in ever an ever smaller group of people. Skilled immigration is an example of that. The smartest and most driven people are being plucked out of the third world and added to already successful countries. Add to that the graying of the population. We're going to end up with an over-supply of unskilled labor, massive demands on the welfare state and a small group of elites wielding a disproportionate amount of power. We are not going to be able to borrow and consume our way out of this.
 
2012-12-09 03:07:54 PM
I hope that all of the people who don't think this is a problem are ok with Medicare and Social Security not existing when it comes time for them to collect. We don't need massive population growth, but you need young workers to support those programs. Otherwise they go away. And I'd better not see you screaming that they shouldn't ever be cut, either.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It is so funny that you think these social programs will be there for you! I've been paying into them for 30 years and know for sure that the Boomers will have it all spent by the time I get there. Have kids so they can pay into a broken system with no hope of return - that is not the view of a responsible parent.


Naively stating that "there is no problem" and that "IT WILL ALL BE OK" doesn't necessarily make it true.

Why not? It works for people who ignore all the problems due to over population.


Yeah, I doubt employers will suddenly double wages if the workforces halves by all the women leaving it, or match with whatever proportions thereabouts.

No, they will just cry "skills gap!" and bring over cheap labor from overseas.


Isn't the world population still small enough to fit into the state of Texas? Whatever happened to that eyeopening concept?

People realized it was moronic not eye opening. People need more space than what they take up standing still. See how long you can stand still, not eating or drinking - when you get to 70 years we'll talk.


For example, in western society, Christmas is a very big deal

So you think brown people do not celebrate Christmas? Really?


Whether or not having more babies will fix, things, I don't know...

I do - It won't. It may make a few things better, but will make the majority worse.


IntelligentEducated women are too busy pursuing careers to have children, while stupid women are breeding like flies.

FTFY
I have a PhD and no children. My sister graduated from High school and has 4. She actually has a higher IQ than I do, but values children more and is not temperamentally suited to school. I am not temperamentally suited to raising kids. I'll leave the child rearing to the people who want to do it. The kids turn out better that way.
 
2012-12-09 03:11:29 PM
We're going to end up with an over-supply of unskilled labor, massive demands on the welfare state and a small group of elites wielding a disproportionate amount of power. We are not going to be able to borrow and consume our way out of this.

We would not have this problem if we made education cheap and easy to get or if businesses were, once again, willing to train people. The problem here is that business has come to expect people to come pre-trained for what ever system they are using (even if it is proprietary). Uneducated does not mean stupid.
 
2012-12-09 03:11:32 PM

LasersHurt: If we drop the whole nationalism thing and look at humanity at large, we're still growing. So that's nice.


Ok, so how do we tax that? If we follow your logic, rich old countries should just tax poor young ones, right? That'll go over well at the UN....
 
2012-12-09 03:26:10 PM

Deep Contact: The future looks bleak. It will consist of only politicians and gov't employees.


If someone would give me one of those government jobs--or any decent job at all, I'm not picky--the future would look a lot less bleak. I guess it just depends on which side you're looking at it from.
 
2012-12-09 03:31:39 PM
Recently met a couple, the female half of which has three children from three different fathers starting when she was 14 years old. Her current babydaddytobe is not the father of the child that is living with her.

They can't support the one they have, are on welfare and food stamps, and frequently choose to buy lottery tickets and cigarettes and make their seven year old eat Top Ramen for the last two weeks of the month.

They're trying for another one.

Marvelous.

Sometimes I think forced sterilization is a good idea. But then I remember about Nazis.

So there's that.
 
2012-12-09 03:34:26 PM
www.kcet.org
Who in Hades do you think you are, Vestal Virgins?
You murderers of your own posterity!
 
2012-12-09 03:35:04 PM

redeyedfrenzy: Recently met a couple, the female half of which has three children from three different fathers starting when she was 14 years old. Her current babydaddytobe is not the father of the child that is living with her.

They can't support the one they have, are on welfare and food stamps, and frequently choose to buy lottery tickets and cigarettes and make their seven year old eat Top Ramen for the last two weeks of the month.

They're trying for another one.

Marvelous.

Sometimes I think forced sterilization is a good idea. But then I remember about Nazis.

So there's that.


Hey, they invented the Volkswagen... don't forget that...
 
2012-12-09 03:39:07 PM
One other factor seems to be ignored here: something like one out of every two pregnancies is unintentional. And that's just from the woman's perspective. If and when we reach the point where it's one out of every 20 (accidents will still happen), the birth rate will plummet even further.
 
2012-12-09 03:44:13 PM
The Germans have had good results getting the birth rate per woman up by providing women with support in the form of daycare and other measures to make it easier for working professional women to combine motherhood and careers. Apparently some women make rational decisions about having children based on their ability to afford them. Professional women in particular need guarantees that they can take time off without losing their jobs and their place on the career path with each child.

A co-worker of mine who is politically fairly conservative has had four children, about three of them on paid maternity leave, and I haven't heard her complaining about Canadian socialism. Mind you, baby bonuses in Canada date back to the reign of Louis XIV who encouraged the colonists to breed with gay abandon. Which they did. The birth rate per woman in France was six children, while it was 6.5 in New France. And life expectancy was much higher in New France than in old, even with the Iroquois, the Dutch and the British breathing down our necks.
 
2012-12-09 03:51:50 PM
My mistake: that should read "working AND professional women". "Socialism" is not just for the rich, although given the fact that Germany has hundreds of different health care insurance schemes to choose from, I won't guarantee that the rich don't get a specially rich deal, the way American "entitlements" such as unemployment insurance are geared to the income of the recipient and thus richer for the richer than the poor.
 
2012-12-09 04:07:01 PM

hubiestubert: Well, there's that idea, or we could accept changing economic conditions and limitations on land, and look to more sustainable economic models...


Correction: OTHER PEOPLE could accept changing economic conditions and limitations on land, and look to more sustainable economic models. While we, on the other hand, maintain our unlimited supply of food and fresh water, round-the-clock electrical power, and high-speed internet.

/who do you think builds and repairs the machines that are replacing all the workers?
//not the liberal arts graduates who refuse to breed for the "good of the planet," that's for sure
///enjoy your beautiful cities, Eloi, but don't screw with the Morlocks' food supply or they might have to find a... substitute
 
2012-12-09 04:10:48 PM

raerae1980: I'm convinced I'll have one child. At least, I keep telling myself that I want to have one child. But, I have NOOOOOO idea when this will happen. I'm 32 and married BUT still searching for that ellusive entry level job that will kickstart my career. Then I will need maternity leave. Then daycare. And hope my parents move closer to the West coast.


You'd better freeze some of your eggs now. As you get older, your eggs lose more and more mitrochondria and become less viable. Any pregnancy that happens after age 35 is considered a geriatric pregnancy.

http://www.hollywoodivf.com/FertilityConception/Infertility/Ageandinf e rtility/tabid/450/Default.aspx

Careers are important, but so is having a healthy kid. if you wait until you can afford one, you might never have one. (Look into home based jobs, telecommuting, or starting your own business if you want a job with flexibility enough to let you take care of your kids.)
 
2012-12-09 04:28:29 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: So we're supposed to pop out kids when we can't even get healthcare for these kids, much less afford housing for them?

What a naked display of treating the 99% like medieval peasantry.


The 1% can better enjoy their wealth from an island in a sea of human misery.
 
2012-12-09 04:29:31 PM
HAH HAH! I'm pregnant!
 
2012-12-09 04:30:16 PM

syzygy whizz: hubiestubert: Well, there's that idea, or we could accept changing economic conditions and limitations on land, and look to more sustainable economic models...

Done in one...


/ Knew I had you favorited for a reason...


lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-12-09 04:39:06 PM

swahnhennessy: The last thing this planet needs is more babies. Africa has a massive surplus of the things. I suggest importing some of them.


The life expectancy there is very low. And it only looks like a surplus because their parents are dead.
 
2012-12-09 04:55:12 PM

Theaetetus: RexTalionis: Part of the reason that our economy (and population) is still expanding is because in the US, immigration is adding more residents to counteract the declining birthrate.

I find that most of the people fearmongering about the declining birth rate are primarily concerned about the declining white birth rate.


I'm having 2 half-white babies, so together they make one white baby. However I think this is not what the nativists are hoping for...
 
2012-12-09 05:07:32 PM
So there it is in black and white, without any attempt to even deny it:

Marriage is just a scam to keep the economy going.
 
2012-12-09 05:30:27 PM

Mr. Eugenides: You need to raise 3 kids. The first one to learn how to do it, the second to get it right and the third to get it the way you wanted in the first place.


I am twice divorced, I think your theory applies to marriages too.
 
2012-12-09 05:35:48 PM

jst3p: Mr. Eugenides: You need to raise 3 kids. The first one to learn how to do it, the second to get it right and the third to get it the way you wanted in the first place.

I am twice divorced, I think your theory applies to marriages too.


That applies to just about anything.
 
2012-12-09 05:52:04 PM
I can not believe how many people can actually sanely think that expansion is a forever thing. To think that an economy can be solely founded upon growth is idiocy...
 
2012-12-09 05:57:47 PM
Happily childfree, vasectomy in 1995... and these are the only diapers I'd be willing to change at this point:

i555.photobucket.com

/i'll clean her up and bring her to my bunk myself, thanks
 
2012-12-09 05:58:15 PM
Ya, because 311,000,000 + people living in this country isn't enough!!! Let's have more...Yeaaaaaa...
 
2012-12-09 06:29:49 PM

yourmomlovestetris:
Careers are important, but so is having a healthy kid. if you wait until you can afford one, you might never have one. (Look into home based jobs, telecommuting, or starting your own business if you want a job with flexibility enough to let you take care of your kids.)


Or not buying tons of material crap, When the ex-Mr. Katt and I had kitten, we survived on $1200/month-military pay(extra $500 for rent-so $1700 total), Cloth diapers(cost a whopping $70 to diaper my kid for two years, and those diapers went on to three more kids of my friends), breastmilk, and thrift store baby clothes, we normally had enough money to go on a "date night" every week. Babies aren't expensive, it's the crap people think they NEED for a baby. The book "Attachment parenting" has a list of things that are not necessary to raise a baby-everything on the list is what most people consider "must haves" due to marketing.
 
2012-12-09 06:39:18 PM
Yes, because this is truly sustainable for the planet Earth in the long term:

www.subdude-site.com

/Really? I'm the first one to post this?
 
2012-12-09 06:39:33 PM
FTFA: Our whole economy and social system are designed for a growing economy, and a growing population.

Yeah, but. Our economy and social system weren't so much designed as as they are simple opportunistic growth, like a patch of weeds. If a declining population becomes the norm, economy and society will opportunistically evolve to meet the needs. (After a painful adjustment period, maybe.)
 
2012-12-09 07:03:42 PM
Can we produce enough food and shelter for our population if we see declining population?

If yes then we don't need to increase our populations.

We aren't an agrarian society anymore.
 
2012-12-09 07:14:51 PM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: BokChoy: The only problem is that those immigrants bring baggage with them, as Europe has been finding out over the past few decades..

Um, the US is composed (nearly) entirely of immigrants. Europe's problem with immigrants is that they made it entirely clear from the outset that the Turks, North Africans, Pakistanis and others would never, ever be considered residents of those European nations. That led to ghettos, and then to lots of the problems that they're having now.

The US is much, much better than that at assimilating groups of people and making them feel like they're us. Not perfect, but much better.


Walk through dearborn, mi: everyone under thirty is about as american as apple pie despite being middle eastern.

You are absolutely correct.
 
2012-12-09 07:50:39 PM
I have one kid in elementary school now. Having additional kids to make playmates for their predecessors seemed too stupid a reason to have more. I never got a serious urge to have more kids. I had always imagined I'd have 2-4, but we just didn't. I'm in my early thirties now, so I don't really want to do pregnancy again. I'm already at a higher chance of twins, even before accounting the increased chance with age.

Maybe the idea of having more kids for some people might be more appealing if people could count on steady jobs like they could in the two or three decades after WW2. Any more though, the employers seem to want to hoard cash, pay their CEO's ridiculous amounts for their incompetence and try to find ways around making sure you've got healthcare. Why would any sane person bring in numerous children into a place where they might have to go without food because some incompetent,idiot CEO that's getting paid at least $5 million in salary before stock options per year is ok with laying people off, expecting more productivity out of already overworked and under compensated employees just so that they profit margin looks a little higher and the stocks will go up.

Corporations are entirely too short term stock-gains focused. They aught to be planning long term growth instead of faddish stock price hunting. Capital gains could be taxed at a progressive scale based on length of investment to encourage long term investment. Short term stocks sales being taxed at the highest rate. Long term capital gains still being taxed nearer to regular income than currently, 15% tax rate is ridiculously low. It should be at least 20% to 25%. 

Republicans need to stop fellating corporate interests.
 
2012-12-09 08:05:58 PM
Ought, not aught.
 
2012-12-09 08:11:34 PM

BlaqueKatt: yourmomlovestetris:
Careers are important, but so is having a healthy kid. if you wait until you can afford one, you might never have one. (Look into home based jobs, telecommuting, or starting your own business if you want a job with flexibility enough to let you take care of your kids.)

Or not buying tons of material crap, When the ex-Mr. Katt and I had kitten, we survived on $1200/month-military pay(extra $500 for rent-so $1700 total), Cloth diapers(cost a whopping $70 to diaper my kid for two years, and those diapers went on to three more kids of my friends), breastmilk, and thrift store baby clothes, we normally had enough money to go on a "date night" every week. Babies aren't expensive, it's the crap people think they NEED for a baby. The book "Attachment parenting" has a list of things that are not necessary to raise a baby-everything on the list is what most people consider "must haves" due to marketing.


I agree...they really cost very little if you breastfeed and don't have to deal with formula. I didn't do the cloth diaper thing, no washer and dryer in my apartment, but I manage to only spend about $25-$30/month on diapers, i'm a good sale shopper. I'm interested to see this list of unnecessary things, though im not at all interested in attachment parenting, my kid and i are plenty close, and I don't need to be kicked by an 18 month old throughout the night, screw the bed-sharing crap.
 
2012-12-09 08:13:59 PM

Goodfella: Yes, because this is truly sustainable for the planet Earth in the long term:

[www.subdude-site.com image 703x578]

/Really? I'm the first one to post this?


Yes, and most of that rapid jump in growth was from a multitude of educated people in first world countries having 20 children. Once the educated class goes extinct, everything will stabilise.
 
2012-12-09 08:34:00 PM

ohokyeah: I never got a serious urge to have more kids.


And that's the start and the end of it. Once you have one kid, you pretty much have the kid experience. Deciding to have the first kid was an awfully big jump. But once I had one, I knew that I wanted more and not because I wanted to give her a brother or anything stupid like that.
 
Displayed 50 of 167 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report