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(CBS Houston)   Off-duty cop in "fear for his life" fires weapon at suspected Walmart shoplifters speeding away, killing one but luckily missing the two small children in the car. Tag is for not knowing Walmart's new policy regarding shoplifters   (houston.cbslocal.com) divider line 673
    More: Dumbass, Wal-Mart, shoplifting, speeds, fires, weapons  
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18512 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2012 at 10:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-09 11:04:49 AM
If that shoplifter had stolen a gun, she might be alive today.
 
2012-12-09 11:04:56 AM

BronyMedic: filter: In the civilized world, this is considered murder.

A human life for a property crime? Maybe in Saudi Arabia.

Uh, what? The guy didn't shoot her for driving away with property. TFA indicates he shot her because he was being dragged by the vehicle when he tried to stop her from driving off, after she slugged him. If you drag a cop, you're probably going to get shot by him.


Not if you do it correctly.
 
2012-12-09 11:05:00 AM
Most importantly: he shot at her after she got away and was no longer a threat to his safety.
 
2012-12-09 11:05:07 AM

Rich Cream: BravadoGT: If you're a police officer in the lawful exercise of your duty and have given the individual a lawful order to stop, and that individual has refused and as a consequence-placed your life in danger. Then yes, you are justified.


I agree but I don't see where his life was threatened. Maybe if we go with "threat of grave bodily harm" rather than "death" we can find a common ground.

/still, why is the gun even out of the holster at this point? is that standard practice now to draw your weapon at the initiation of procedure or at the first sign of disobedience? seems a little cowardly


If the wheels of the car are pointed straight, then the officer may be able to safely stop moving and just let the car go past. If the wheels are turned to the left--he could still be knocked to the ground and run over after letting go of the vehicle. Cops know this, courts know this, and the courts don't expect them to try to make that determination on the fly. There are plenty of examples out there where the cop has let go and then was run over by the rear wheels. Consequently, If they have given a lawful order to stop, and the car is dragging the cop along (even when they're hanging on)--no one's going to give much of a second thought about blessing a shooting under those circumstances.

Cops routinely draw their weapons once they have determined that the suspect is not going to cooperate with their orders--he likely had it drawn as he was chasing her to the car and she was running from him. Sometimes fleeing suspects decide to draw their own weapon and engage the officer.
 
2012-12-09 11:05:21 AM
Lots of trolling here. Don't hit, and drag a police officer. Bad things will happen. Did they not know this? One less thug.
 
2012-12-09 11:06:26 AM

Rich Cream: BravadoGT: If you're a police officer in the lawful exercise of your duty and have given the individual a lawful order to stop, and that individual has refused and as a consequence-placed your life in danger. Then yes, you are justified.


I agree but I don't see where his life was threatened. Maybe if we go with "threat of grave bodily harm" rather than "death" we can find a common ground.

/still, why is the gun even out of the holster at this point? is that standard practice now to draw your weapon at the initiation of procedure or at the first sign of disobedience? seems a little cowardly


That would be why he only had one hand to get afeared for his life with.
 
2012-12-09 11:06:43 AM
Kill cops because cops kill.
 
2012-12-09 11:07:15 AM

Rich Cream: So he didn't fire until she was driving away and apparently not within arm's reach.

If he got dragged by the car it was because he grabbed it and hung onto it. Unless you want to say his wedding ring or belt loop got hung up on something?


Uh, I hate to interrupt your idea of what the world should be like, but in reality, dragging a law enforcement officer with a car, for any reason is justification for the use of lethal force.

Whether or not, by walmart's policy, he should have chased her like he did is irrelevant at that point.
 
2012-12-09 11:07:37 AM

BravadoGT: Sheriff's spokesman Thomas Gilliland says Campbell chased one of the suspects after she hit him. The woman then entered a car. Gilliland says that when Campbell opened the car's door, the vehicle accelerated. The deputy was standing between the car door and driver's seat and, fearing for his life, fired his weapon.


Translated to English, this means that the cop had ALREADY drawn his pistol when he jerked the car door open and stepped between the open door and driver's seat to order the driver out of the car.

Note to black people: when The Man tells you to exit the car, he's gonna kill you and get away with murder if you don't comply.
 
2012-12-09 11:07:44 AM
Don't run from the cops.

/Why is this hard to understand?
 
2012-12-09 11:07:52 AM
The biatch assaulted him twice. Its justified
 
2012-12-09 11:09:29 AM

Stone Meadow: Note to black people: when The Man tells you to exit the car, he's gonna kill you and get away with murder if you don't comply.


Where does it say the thieves were black? Or are you the racist here.
 
2012-12-09 11:09:36 AM

fusillade762: Bathia_Mapes: I'm pretty sure Walmart's shoplifter procedures apply to their employees only, not an off duty cop who happened to be there .

He didn't just happen to be there. From the Daily Mail arty:

'We hire off duty officers to provide security to some of our stores. While we have policies in place for our associates to disengage from situations that might put them or others in harm's way, off-duty officers working at a WM store are authorized to act in accordance with their department's code of conduct.'

But yeah, he doesn't have to obey WM policy, apparently.


I used to work as a loss prevention officer at Walmart, and no, the off duty cops do not have the same rules as loss prevention does. They follow their own department rules.

And also the car was actually going in reverse, according to the police report, and dragging the officer and he feared for his life.
 
2012-12-09 11:10:05 AM

ButterMule: Kill cops because cops kill.


globalnerdy.com

You should take your own advice. Don't wait on others. Pick up the nearest gun and charge a police station. Be an Hero to us all.
 
MFK
2012-12-09 11:10:15 AM

Ooba Tooba: Lots of trolling here. Don't hit, and drag a police officer. Bad things will happen. Did they not know this? One less thug.


I don't suppose it's occurred to you that the "bad things will happen" could actually be the problem?
 
2012-12-09 11:11:02 AM
With helpul picture of what a $2K .22 caliber Olympic target pistol might look like.
 
2012-12-09 11:11:33 AM

fluffy2097: Don't run from the cops.

/Why is this hard to understand?


And maybe the whole "don't commit crime" as well?
 
2012-12-09 11:11:41 AM

hbk72777: Where does it say the thieves were black?


A picture of the victim is already in the thread.
 
2012-12-09 11:11:45 AM
I think there's a very good chance that he wasn't actively trying to shoot her. If you were caught partially in/on a moving car with a firearm in your hand, I would imagine it'd be pretty easy for your finger to squeeze the trigger inadvertently.

Whether he was right to be in that situation is a question I won't speculate on, but seriously, I think it's safe to say he didn't "shoot her for shoplifting." Same goes for all those "shot for $8" stories. A criminal does not determine the contents of your wallet before mugging you. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but be honest about it.
 
2012-12-09 11:11:50 AM

filter: In the civilized world, this is considered murder.

A human life for a property crime? Maybe in Saudi Arabia.


No, the property crime was going to be handled with the cop saying "Open your bag. Do you have a receipt for that? You're under arrest." The shoplifters upped the ante by striking the officer and fleeing. Then, after a foot persuit ending at the suspects' vehicle, they try to flee with the door open and the car apparently in some type of contact with the officer.

Had the cop walked up to her, pulled out his gun and summarily executed her...then yes, I'd consider that murder. Unfortunately for the dead woman, this situation escalated four times by my count (when she struck the officer, when she fled, when she got in her car and refused orders to stop, and when she started moving with the officer attatched). It is no longer a simple property crime. The blame lies with the women, and the fact that they were willing to fight so hard and put their own lives in jeopardy over a fine or a month in county.
 
2012-12-09 11:14:12 AM

BravadoGT: f the wheels are turned to the left--he could still be knocked to the ground and run over after letting go of the vehicle.


Fair enough. I suppose there was an unlikely chance of great harm.

BravadoGT:

Cops routinely draw their weapons once they have determined that the suspect is not going to cooperate with their orders--he likely had it drawn as he was chasing her to the car and she was running from him. Sometimes fleeing suspects decide to draw their own weapon and engage the officer.


I could see if you're stopping a suspected armed bank robber but just because someone doesn't obey you doesn't mean you can threaten them with death. Punishment by electric shock is bad enough.


BronyMedic: Whether or not, by walmart's policy, he should have chased her like he did is irrelevant at that point.


There is no way on God's green earth that WalMart's security policy is going to outrank municipal legal codes.
 
2012-12-09 11:14:13 AM

Rich Cream: Most importantly: he shot at her after she got away and was no longer a threat to his safety.


BravadoGT: One more thing--she was already on probation for shoplifting...from Walmart! As part of her probation, she wasn't even allowed to be in a Walmart...

Here's a pic of the delicate little flower...

[www.digitaljournal.com image 281x371]



Kill it!

Kill it!

It's black, like Obama!

Kill it for Freedom!
 
2012-12-09 11:14:15 AM

MFK: Ooba Tooba: Lots of trolling here. Don't hit, and drag a police officer. Bad things will happen. Did they not know this? One less thug.

I don't suppose it's occurred to you that the "bad things will happen" could actually be the problem?


Or the problem could be that the woman tried to mow down a cop with her car.

The officer was in his Sheriff Department uniform and clearly identified as law enforcement, not as a private security guard. In addition, he was knocked off his feet, and felt like he was in danger of being ran over by the tires.
 
2012-12-09 11:14:33 AM

lizyrd: filter: In the civilized world, this is considered murder.

A human life for a property crime? Maybe in Saudi Arabia.

No, the property crime was going to be handled with the cop saying "Open your bag. Do you have a receipt for that? You're under arrest." The shoplifters upped the ante by striking the officer and fleeing. Then, after a foot persuit ending at the suspects' vehicle, they try to flee with the door open and the car apparently in some type of contact with the officer.

Had the cop walked up to her, pulled out his gun and summarily executed her...then yes, I'd consider that murder. Unfortunately for the dead woman, this situation escalated four times by my count (when she struck the officer, when she fled, when she got in her car and refused orders to stop, and when she started moving with the officer attatched). It is no longer a simple property crime. The blame lies with the women, and the fact that they were willing to fight so hard and put their own lives in jeopardy over a fine or a month in county.


Well said! And that's why I'd never let you sit on one of my juries ;)
 
2012-12-09 11:15:03 AM

kombat_unit: fluffy2097: Don't run from the cops.

/Why is this hard to understand?

And maybe the whole "don't commit crime" as well?


Don't be silly. In a civil society you can commit whatever crimes you like without any recourse simply by running away.

ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-12-09 11:15:13 AM
So many good little boot lickers in these threads, it's pretty sad.
 
2012-12-09 11:15:24 AM

BravadoGT: Here's a pic of the delicate little flower..


These lips were made for sucking
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days these
lips are gonna suck all over you

OOPS, TOO LATE.
 
2012-12-09 11:15:26 AM

Tazandra: And also the car was actually going in reverse, according to the police report,


There is a discrepancy with regards to this.

FTA: "Additional reports stated that the deputy then opened the door and commanded the driver to stop. Instead of stopping the car, the woman put it in drive, revving forward and dragging the deputy."
 
2012-12-09 11:15:44 AM

hbk72777: Stone Meadow: Note to black people: when The Man tells you to exit the car, he's gonna kill you and get away with murder if you don't comply.

Where does it say the thieves were black? Or are you the racist here.


Have you figured out yet how we know you didn't scroll through the thread before accusing me of being a racist?
 
2012-12-09 11:16:10 AM
img69.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-09 11:16:23 AM
This is actually the plot of Les Miserables 2, which is only 10 pages long.
 
2012-12-09 11:17:09 AM

Rich Cream: I could see if you're stopping a suspected armed bank robber but just because someone doesn't obey you doesn't mean you can threaten them with death. Punishment by electric shock is bad enough.


When you refuse an officer's order to stop, and get into a car, you have escalated the situation. You have, at the least, a one ton lethal weapon in the hands of someone you have no idea what they are going to do, then yes. They are justified by drawing their side arm in that case. They're also justified in shooting your tires out if you attempt to flee.

Rich Cream: There is no way on God's green earth that WalMart's security policy is going to outrank municipal legal codes.


Reading other articles on google about the shooting, it appears that he was working with the permission of his department in his Sheriff's uniform, as a law enforcement officer.
 
2012-12-09 11:17:20 AM

BravadoGT: Theaetetus: BravadoGT: Theaetetus: BravadoGT: Reading this from Lubbock Online-It sounds like a good shooting:

HOUSTON

Authorities are investigating the fatal shooting of a suspected shoplifter by a sheriff's deputy during a confrontation outside a Houston-area Wal-Mart store.

Officials say Harris County sheriff's Deputy Louis Campbell confronted several female suspects suspected of stealing from the store Thursday evening.

Sheriff's spokesman Thomas Gilliland says Campbell chased one of the suspects after she hit him. The woman then entered a car. Gilliland says that when Campbell opened the car's door, the vehicle accelerated. The deputy was standing between the car door and driver's seat and, fearing for his life, fired his weapon.

[image.shutterstock.com image 300x470]
What a person standing between a car door and driver's seat may look like.

I don't think he's in danger unless the car is going backwards.

Right, because there's no way once the car starts moving and knocks him balance, he could fall under the rear wheels....

Gosh, you're right... I hadn't thought of that. Mind you, that could happen any time anyone is standing near a car, so therefore, we're justified in shooting the driver if we're within 5 feet while they're moving.

If you're a police officer in the lawful exercise of your duty and have given the individual a lawful order to stop, and that individual has refused and as a consequence-placed your life in danger. Then yes, you are justified.

I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm just telling you how the law reads (at least in my state, which I would bet is very similar to Texas in this respect).


Off duty cop, he's a mall cop now. Life is quite obviously NOT in danger, in fact shooting the driver may actually place your life in greater danger as now you have a wounded individual barreling away in a 2 ton steel machine.

Charge him with second degree murder and as many counts of reckless discharge of a firearm as there are people in the parking lot. So about 100 or so. Sounds good to me.
 
2012-12-09 11:17:24 AM

Cubicle Jockey: Tazandra: And also the car was actually going in reverse, according to the police report,

There is a discrepancy with regards to this.

FTA: "Additional reports stated that the deputy then opened the door and commanded the driver to stop. Instead of stopping the car, the woman put it in drive, revving forward and dragging the deputy."


I think the discrepancy will be in the fact that he shot her after the danger from the car had passed. But this is Houston, he will probably get a promotion and be allowed to add a little Sambo kill sticker to his squad car.
 
2012-12-09 11:17:24 AM

Rich Cream: BravadoGT: f the wheels are turned to the left--he could still be knocked to the ground and run over after letting go of the vehicle.

Fair enough. I suppose there was an unlikely chance of great harm.

BravadoGT:

Cops routinely draw their weapons once they have determined that the suspect is not going to cooperate with their orders--he likely had it drawn as he was chasing her to the car and she was running from him. Sometimes fleeing suspects decide to draw their own weapon and engage the officer.

I could see if you're stopping a suspected armed bank robber but just because someone doesn't obey you doesn't mean you can threaten them with death. Punishment by electric shock is bad enough.


Just because an officer has his weapon drawn from his holster doesn't mean he has raised it up, pointed it at you and threatened to shoot. It means, merely, that it is out of the holster and in his hand.

 
2012-12-09 11:18:55 AM
Additional reports stated that the deputy then opened the door and commanded the driver to stop. Instead of stopping the car, the woman put it in drive, revving forward and dragging the deputy. It was then that the deputy fired his weapon as the vehicle sped away.

/I have no problem with this, he could have been dragged to death, seriously injured, or crushed under the cars wheels. And he had every right to open her door and try to arrest her.
 
2012-12-09 11:19:42 AM

Cubicle Jockey: hbk72777: Where does it say the thieves were black?

A picture of the victim is already in the thread.


She is no victim. She decided to commit a crime as soon as she carried out that crime she ceased to be a victim. This is a result of her decision whether the severity of the consequence is justified or not. Some one that is attacked without provocation is a victim a criminal is not.
 
2012-12-09 11:20:22 AM

BronyMedic: Or the problem could be that the woman tried to mow down a cop with her car.


Where's that Captain Hyperbole picture? 


Still tho, now he was also knocked down and then feared he was going to be run over and then drew his weapon and then shot at the vehicle? Was she driving in a circle or what?

The car was away from him when he shot at it. Had to be. In other words the threat has dissipated and he was simply firing out of anger.

Or, he is that high-strung and really shouldn't have a gun and be in a position of authority
 
2012-12-09 11:21:00 AM

Mr. Carpenter: Off duty cop, he's a mall cop now


He was apparently in his service uniform however.

How does that work? You are an official police officer paid by Walmart directly?
 
2012-12-09 11:21:16 AM

Mr. Carpenter: Off duty cop, he's a mall cop now. Life is quite obviously NOT in danger, in fact shooting the driver may actually place your life in greater danger as now you have a wounded individual barreling away in a 2 ton steel machine.


You might want to RTFA. Just because he's off duty doesn't mean anything. He's working in uniform for the store with the permission of his department. He has the same authority in this instance as if he were on the clock with them because of that. As a commissioned LEO, the standards and laws are completely different regarding use of force and ability to enact arrests.
 
ows
2012-12-09 11:21:19 AM

fluffy2097: Don't run from the cops.

/Why is this hard to understand?


fight or flight for the simple minded
 
2012-12-09 11:21:50 AM
Remedial education for those unclear on what to do when The Man orders you to stop: Chris Rock: How Not to Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police (Youtube video).
 
2012-12-09 11:22:27 AM

Rich Cream: BronyMedic: Or the problem could be that the woman tried to mow down a cop with her car.

Still tho, now he was also knocked down and then feared he was going to be run over and then drew his weapon and then shot at the vehicle? Was she driving in a circle or what?

The car was away from him when he shot at it. Had to be. In other words the threat has dissipated and he was simply firing out of anger.

Or, he is that high-strung and really shouldn't have a gun and be in a position of authority


You're assuming a hell of a lot that isn't mentioned in ANY article I've seen. I've read five so far.
 
2012-12-09 11:22:52 AM
Newsflash: vehicular assault on a police officer is considered an attempt on an officer's life and gets people shot all the time.

i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-09 11:25:01 AM
Letting cops act as mercenaries in the private sector is a recipe for disaster, for so many reasons.
 
2012-12-09 11:26:03 AM
Basically his choice was to let go of the car or execute the driver, and he chose execution.
 
2012-12-09 11:26:11 AM
"Although the suspects did get away, Houston police found the car a short time later at a nearby apartment complex. One of the women inside the vehicle was dead from a gunshot wound"


Maybe her partner shot her and she's pinning it on the cop! I've busted this case wide open!

/Dying from a gunshot wound is a form of "getting away", I suppose
 
2012-12-09 11:26:25 AM
Smart Houston shoplifters pick Fiesta Mart. That way, you're armed to the teeth when the police show up.
 
2012-12-09 11:26:32 AM

titwrench: She is no victim. She decided to commit a crime as soon as she carried out that crime she ceased to be a victim.


That's...that's now how the definition of victim works.
 
2012-12-09 11:26:32 AM

BlackMtnMan: I'm still trying to find the dammm kids. WTF?


Presumably subby was talking about the other two shoplifters, ages 27 and 38. Not that it would surprise me if they actually did bring kids along. They would probably make you look less suspicious as a shoplifter or you might think they'd afford you a little leniency. Or maybe you just can't find a babysitter.
 
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