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(Pro Football Talk)   NFL player kills teammate with a combination of alcohol and a car   (profootballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 174
    More: News, NFL, Josh Brent, defensive tackle, Cowboys, player killing, player killer, drunk driving  
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4071 clicks; posted to Sports » on 08 Dec 2012 at 3:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-08 04:02:39 PM

Warlordtrooper: KiwDaWabbit: dlp211: rickythepenguin: jesus.

So is Bob Costas going to call for Prohibition?

Hey, remember when Bob Costas called for gun control, yea, neither do I. Words have meanings and a change of culture is not the same as instituting new laws.

Right. Just about everything I have wanted to say has been said already. Drunk driving is culturally acceptable in this country across any demographic background. I think that most of us here think that this was thoughtless and needless, but it's also ingrained in our culture. Campaigns against it and stiffer penalties might put small dents in the problem, but the best resolution is example setting and parenting in the formative years. Rest assured, people are gonna fark up sometimes whether or not they had the best parents ever, but that's where it all starts.

Nobody condones drunk driving. We just realize there is a difference between going out and having a beer or 2 and driving drunk


That's not true. Anybody who supports zoning laws that put neighborhood bars out of business or keep them from opening, resulting in people having to drive to a place where they will consume alcohol and lose their judgment skills before they have to decide whether or not to drive home, is tacitly condoning drunk driving. People make all kinds of choices, some are more immediate than others, but there are causes all along the chain of events both intended and unintended.
 
2012-12-08 04:03:23 PM

p the boiler: Captain Steroid: marius2: Better article http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20121208-dal las-cowboy-dies-in-irving-car-crash-teammate-arrested-on-manslaughter- charges.ece

Guy was one of his teammates, "Jerry Brown, 25, is the person who died. Brown is listed as a linebacker on the team."

Chiefs-Browns-Cowboys.

The trifecta is now complete. :-(

I missed the Browns one... What happened?


One of the Browns' grounds crew killed himself at their practice facility THE SAME DAY as Jovan Belcher. :-(

L.A. Times
 
2012-12-08 04:03:46 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: dlp211: rickythepenguin: jesus.

So is Bob Costas going to call for Prohibition?

Hey, remember when Bob Costas called for gun control, yea, neither do I. Words have meanings and a change of culture is not the same as instituting new laws.

That car culture, taking young men and women from us at more than twice the rate of guns. We need to recognize that vehicles do not need to be 4,000 pounds or have 400 horsepower, and that dubs actually make cars more dangerous. Put one in the hands of a drunk and mayhem ensues. One thing is certain, Brown would be alive today if Brent hadn't had access to a car.

Yeah, it does sound pretty stupid, doesn't it? But hey, at least it wasn't a gun that killed him, because while he would be just as dead one is much worse than the other.


Well, one is literally a killing machine that these days is at best a hobby item, while the other is a tansportation device that is pragmatically necessary for the functioning of modern society. It's also harder to get (legal) access to a car than it is a gun in many places. Good argument, bro.
 
2012-12-08 04:04:28 PM

srhp29: you are a puppet: I don't fully know the details in the Stallworth thing, but having seen people jaywalk in the dark and almost hit them soberly, I don't know that alcohol made a huge difference in that case.

You know Stallworth saw the guy and flashed his lights at him, right?

That said, I think Stallworth's situation had nothing to do with alcohol. He probably didn't even realize he would be over the limit since he had been sleeping for three or four hours prior to driving.


Did the guy freeze in his tracks and stare at the car's headlights, and did he make a *gulp* sound an instant before impact was made?
 
2012-12-08 04:05:20 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: That car alcohol culture

 
2012-12-08 04:06:27 PM
Obviously the cab/car service option is the only sensible answer, but the simple fact is that there are people who enjoy driving while buzzed and think nothing will ever happen to them. Not saying that's the case here, but those guys do exist.
 
2012-12-08 04:07:33 PM

neon_god: Adolf Oliver Nipples: dlp211: rickythepenguin: jesus.

So is Bob Costas going to call for Prohibition?

Hey, remember when Bob Costas called for gun control, yea, neither do I. Words have meanings and a change of culture is not the same as instituting new laws.

That car culture, taking young men and women from us at more than twice the rate of guns. We need to recognize that vehicles do not need to be 4,000 pounds or have 400 horsepower, and that dubs actually make cars more dangerous. Put one in the hands of a drunk and mayhem ensues. One thing is certain, Brown would be alive today if Brent hadn't had access to a car.

Yeah, it does sound pretty stupid, doesn't it? But hey, at least it wasn't a gun that killed him, because while he would be just as dead one is much worse than the other.

Well, one is literally a killing machine that these days is at best a hobby item, while the other is a tansportation device that is pragmatically necessary for the functioning of modern society. It's also harder to get (legal) access to a car than it is a gun in many places. Good argument, bro.


Neither of those are true. See: New York City, Chicago, etc. I myself went an entire year without a driver's license in semi-rural Pennsylvania, with my legs, a bicycle, and a bus pass. As for ease of access, if you can't buy a car 15 minutes from now you're either extremely poor or you're doing it wrong. Harder my ass.
 
2012-12-08 04:07:50 PM

KiwDaWabbit: , but the best resolution is example setting and parenting in the formative years. Rest assured, people are gonna fark up sometimes whether or not they had the best parents ever, but that's where it all starts.


By a strange twist of fate, it's also the solution to Godel's 'head trauma' problem. Maybe if, instead of considering dumb-fark reactionary stuff like replacing kickoffs with 4-and-15 from your 25, we had a youth system that teaches the kids 'playing hard and stopping your opponent doesn't mean trying to plant him into the ground with every hit', the NFL wouldn't be staring down the nightmare of litigation they are.

Face it, rugby shows that you can still play hard, hit hard, and not give your opponent or yourself lasting brain trauma. Unless you count the binge drinking after the matches.

Which now leads us back to the original topic: drinking and driving is farked up and you're a moron if you do it. My sympathy's to the Cowyboys, their fans and and the family of the player killed.
 
2012-12-08 04:08:27 PM

Warlordtrooper: Nobody condones drunk driving. We just realize there is a difference between going out and having a beer or 2 and driving drunk


"Condoning" and it "being socially acceptable" in my eyes are two different things. If it weren't socially acceptable, people wouldn't risk it in the numbers that they do. Go to most college campuses across the nation and tell me it's not socially acceptable.
 
2012-12-08 04:10:56 PM

DrPainMD: p the boiler: The guy is an idiot. Anyone who drives drunk is, no matter their profession.

The odds against dying in a car wreck while driving drunk are only about 1,000,000 to 1. So driving drunk is no more idiotic than dozens of other things we do every day.


Ironically, those are the same odds of you getting a f-ing clue.
 
2012-12-08 04:12:23 PM
If only Jerry Brown had a gun, he could have defended himself.
 
2012-12-08 04:14:30 PM

NEDM: poisonedpawn78: Whos dumber.. the guy who drinks and drives or the friend that lets him AND gets into the same car.

Both of them were idiots and dont even TRY to claim this was a tragedy.

They were college teammates, and the dead guy apparently was about to become a father.

A guy is gonna have to go through life knowing he killed his best friend, and made his best friend's child grow up without a father. I'd say that this whole situation is pretty tragic.


... and he's going to get some prison time on top of it, and lose his career most likely, I'd think.

And all so very preventable.
 
2012-12-08 04:14:51 PM
Bummer. RIP
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-08 04:17:57 PM
Does being in jail free up your roster spot?

Dallas Morning News: In June 2009, Brent was sentenced to two years of probation and 60 days in jail as part of a plea agreement stemming from a drunken driving arrest in Champaign County in Illinois.
 
2012-12-08 04:19:32 PM

ZAZ: Does being in jail free up your roster spot?

Dallas Morning News: In June 2009, Brent was sentenced to two years of probation and 60 days in jail as part of a plea agreement stemming from a drunken driving arrest in Champaign County in Illinois.


Well he might actually get a real sentence. Not just a year and parole
 
2012-12-08 04:19:39 PM

you are a puppet: srhp29: you are a puppet: I don't fully know the details in the Stallworth thing, but having seen people jaywalk in the dark and almost hit them soberly, I don't know that alcohol made a huge difference in that case.

You know Stallworth saw the guy and flashed his lights at him, right?

That said, I think Stallworth's situation had nothing to do with alcohol. He probably didn't even realize he would be over the limit since he had been sleeping for three or four hours prior to driving.

Did the guy freeze in his tracks and stare at the car's headlights, and did he make a *gulp* sound an instant before impact was made?


I hadn't heard of Stallworth's incident until now (I don't pay attention to football generally), but .. i'm interested in this point that he "flashed his headlights at the guy" before running him down. Maybe instead of flashing the headlights, while he was speeding, he should've tried the brake pedal .. or don't Bentleys have those?
 
2012-12-08 04:20:13 PM

KiwDaWabbit: Warlordtrooper: Nobody condones drunk driving. We just realize there is a difference between going out and having a beer or 2 and driving drunk

"Condoning" and it "being socially acceptable" in my eyes are two different things. If it weren't socially acceptable, people wouldn't risk it in the numbers that they do. Go to most college campuses across the nation and tell me it's not socially acceptable.


It's socially acceptable because if I go to dinner with my friends I want to have a beer. So does everybody else. Driving while hammered is not socially acceptable. Most of us don't get hammered when we go out because we know we have to drive back. Why should our fun be ruined?
 
2012-12-08 04:21:11 PM

Lou Cypher: Obviously the cab/car service option is the only sensible answer, but the simple fact is that there are people who enjoy driving while buzzed and think nothing will ever happen to them. Not saying that's the case here, but those guys do exist.


One problem is that cabs aren't readily available outside cities, so the vast majority of the country doesn't have that option. That wasn't the case here, but whenever someone says "take a cab" I have to remind them that for most people, that's not an option.

But the bigger problem is that 99.999% of drinkers don't know what it takes to make them legally drunk before they get into a car. I don't drink anymore, but when I did I carried around a breathalyzer that I spent a fortune on (more than $1,000 - those things weren't cheap back in the day) because I almost got a DUI the morning AFTER a party. I woke up and I was still drunk, but I didn't feel like I was still drunk. I felt like I was hungover. I was both.

I used to carry that breathalyzer out to bars when my friends and I went drinking, and unlike that toolbox Tucker Max we'd actually use it to make sure someone was safe to drive home. Over and over again people would be past 0.08 because no one had any idea how little alcohol it took to get them there. To further complicate matters, the drunker a person gets, the more likely they are to think they are OK to drive. Once you've made it past 0.10 your judgement is so compromised the possibility of you doing something stupid goes up exponentially with each successive drink.

There are really only two good solutions: either make sure you're not driving in the first place at the beginning of the evening, or set a hard limit and don't go above it. If two beers in an hour gets you to 0.08, then only drink two and stop. If you're out for 4 hours, don't chug 8 beers in the first hour and think you'll be OK by hour four, because you'll just keep drinking.
 
2012-12-08 04:21:22 PM

srhp29: Yet somehow the Chiefs managed to win their second game of the year.


What, you think the Panthers were going to let them LOSE TOO?
 
2012-12-08 04:21:35 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: We need to recognize that vehicles do not need to be 4,000 pounds or have 400 horsepower, and that dubs actually make cars more dangerous.


I believe Gregg Easterbrook has actually made that very argument in TMQ columns.
 
2012-12-08 04:22:43 PM
Sucks for Brandon Carr. He was attending the funeral of Belcher today, now he's going to be going to another one for a former team mate.
 
2012-12-08 04:24:22 PM

muck4doo: Sucks for Brandon Carr. He was attending the funeral of Belcher today, now he's going to be going to another one for a former team mate.


Is this real life or the plot of the next Final Destination?
 
2012-12-08 04:28:04 PM

ekdikeo4: you are a puppet: srhp29: you are a puppet: I don't fully know the details in the Stallworth thing, but having seen people jaywalk in the dark and almost hit them soberly, I don't know that alcohol made a huge difference in that case.

You know Stallworth saw the guy and flashed his lights at him, right?

That said, I think Stallworth's situation had nothing to do with alcohol. He probably didn't even realize he would be over the limit since he had been sleeping for three or four hours prior to driving.

Did the guy freeze in his tracks and stare at the car's headlights, and did he make a *gulp* sound an instant before impact was made?

I hadn't heard of Stallworth's incident until now (I don't pay attention to football generally), but .. i'm interested in this point that he "flashed his headlights at the guy" before running him down. Maybe instead of flashing the headlights, while he was speeding, he should've tried the brake pedal .. or don't Bentleys have those?


But he was trying to get his friend to his bus or plane or something.
 
2012-12-08 04:28:32 PM

KiwDaWabbit: Warlordtrooper: Nobody condones drunk driving. We just realize there is a difference between going out and having a beer or 2 and driving drunk

"Condoning" and it "being socially acceptable" in my eyes are two different things. If it weren't socially acceptable, people wouldn't risk it in the numbers that they do. Go to most college campuses across the nation and tell me it's not socially acceptable.


Absolutely true. My dorm roommates and I actually tried to see how drunk we could get and still drive. We were already home at the dorms, though; we'd all just hop in one of our cars with a stopwatch and see if the DDD could make it around the block and back the fastest. Don't even get me started on guns, though.

/go Hokies!
 
2012-12-08 04:29:54 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Neither of those are true. See: New York City, Chicago, etc. I myself went an entire year without a driver's license in semi-rural Pennsylvania, with my legs, a bicycle, and a bus pass. As for ease of access, if you can't buy a car 15 minutes from now you're either extremely poor or you're doing it wrong. Harder my ass.


Well, good for you, I guess? Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. And while many residents of cities can get by without cars, that certainly isn't all, and those that could require others to have cars to supply them, move them any long distance, etc. Basically, many people and many businesses simply could not function in a modern way without cars. If people couldn't own guns, modern life would change very little, for those of us that aren't backwoods NRA types. And while you could buy a car, you a) need a licence to use it, which requires a test of safety and competence in operating it, b) need to register it with the state, and c) have to carry liability insurance in case you screw up and hurt someone or damage their property. Many, if not most, states have weaker laws on the conditions necessary to own a gun. Link
 
2012-12-08 04:32:50 PM

Unoriginal Nick: SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: Not really a surprise. It always amazes me how guys with that much money fail to call a cab or at least have a ride set up. It's pretty sad.

All NFL players even have access to free car service at anytime and these idiots still don't use it.


I suspect this might be a matter of not wanting your employer to know how irresponsible and substance abusing you actually are.

"Well we can only keep one of them on the roster. They're pretty similar but player A gets drunk a lot so player B has more upside and less risk"
 
2012-12-08 04:33:43 PM

srhp29: Triumph: lordjupiter: So are there going to be hundreds of posts of tragedy-addicts arguing for the Cowboys to postpone or forfeit?

srhp29: Are there going to be a rash of people calling for the postponement of the game again this week?

Yeah - like this is even the same thing as your employee blowing his brains out in front of you and then having to go to work a few hours later, lead a team and hold a press conference. Totally the same thing.

Yet somehow the Chiefs managed to win their second game of the year.


You can't stop Brady Quinn.
 
2012-12-08 04:34:44 PM

JoshTheTech: On the plus side a couple of roster spots just opened up. Unfortunately Jerry Jones will be filling them so there will still be no improvement. Be warned NFC East- the higher the arrest rate of them Cowboys the better they play- just ask Michael Irvin.

/go Giants


You're a farking tool.


Adolf Oliver Nipples: Neither of those are true. See: New York City, Chicago, etc. I myself went an entire year without a driver's license in semi-rural Pennsylvania, with my legs, a bicycle, and a bus pass. As for ease of access, if you can't buy a car 15 minutes from now you're either extremely poor or you're doing it wrong. Harder my ass.


Public transportation in DFW doesn't exactly run out to the high end neighborhoods. This entire paragraph is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
 
2012-12-08 04:34:49 PM

TheLopper: You can't stop Brady Quinn.


He was extremely courageous in victory.
 
2012-12-08 04:43:17 PM
sdrostra.com

R.I.P. Governor Moonbeam
 
2012-12-08 04:48:20 PM
I'd like to see the NFL ban alcohol in the stadiums this weekend in light of this tragedy....

HA!
 
2012-12-08 04:49:11 PM
FTA: "his car hit the outside curb, flipped over "

Costas, come on! Point out that if it wasn't for the curb, that Brown would still be alive.

Costas, how about going after Hollywood and their descriptions of people getting drunk and doing stupid and dangerous things?
 
2012-12-08 04:51:44 PM
nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com
I think he is going to get more ass in prison then he gets as a Dallas Cowboy.
 
2012-12-08 04:51:48 PM

DrPainMD: p the boiler: The guy is an idiot. Anyone who drives drunk is, no matter their profession.

The odds against dying in a car wreck while driving drunk are only about 1,000,000 to 1. So driving drunk is no more idiotic than dozens of other things we do every day.


Maybe I should play the lottery since I have lost multiple people in my life to drunk drivers.

Oh, and you are a douche.
 
2012-12-08 04:53:23 PM
So does this mean the Cowboys' practice squad will take tomorrow off?
 
2012-12-08 04:54:03 PM
The "Safe Rides Program" for NFL players got canned earlier this year, so that was not a factor in this incident.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/09/report-leagues-safe-r i des-program-is-no-more/
 
2012-12-08 04:54:18 PM

you are a puppet: SilentStrider: you are a puppet: HaywoodJablonski: lordjupiter: So are there going to be hundreds of posts of tragedy-addicts arguing for the Cowboys to postpone or forfeit?

And we'll need a moment of silence for drunk drivers and their passengers

Does Leonard Little still play? Because if he's on the opposing team...that could be awkward.

No, Little retired in '09 I think.

Donte Stallworth is still in the NFL though.

I don't fully know the details in the Stallworth thing, but having seen people jaywalk in the dark and almost hit them soberly, I don't know that alcohol made a huge difference in that case.


Stallworth also manned right the fark up about the whole thing as well.
 
2012-12-08 04:54:41 PM

NEDM: poisonedpawn78: Whos dumber.. the guy who drinks and drives or the friend that lets him AND gets into the same car.

Both of them were idiots and dont even TRY to claim this was a tragedy.

They were college teammates, and the dead guy apparently was about to become a father.

A guy is gonna have to go through life knowing he killed his best friend, and made his best friend's child grow up without a father. I'd say that this whole situation is pretty tragic.


wut? It is much more tragic than the dead guy. Or the dead guy's kid.

This is how he treats his "best friend"? really?? How does he deal with his enemies?
 
2012-12-08 04:59:53 PM
DrPainMD 

t1ak.roblox.com
 
2012-12-08 05:09:39 PM
Has anyone tried to blame this on CTE somehow? And if not, why not? You don't need to be brain-damaged to make terrible decisions like drinking and driving, but I'm sure it helps.

No, but seriously, R.I.P. linebacker man. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the two guys involved and with the Cowboys organization. Losing a friend, a co-worker, a teammate -- whatever you called him -- always hurts like hell. Hopefully you can pull together and find the strength to get through this tragedy.

Still gonna root against you tomorrow, though.
 
2012-12-08 05:12:40 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
Impressed.
 
2012-12-08 05:17:32 PM

Warlordtrooper: KiwDaWabbit: Warlordtrooper: Nobody condones drunk driving. We just realize there is a difference between going out and having a beer or 2 and driving drunk

"Condoning" and it "being socially acceptable" in my eyes are two different things. If it weren't socially acceptable, people wouldn't risk it in the numbers that they do. Go to most college campuses across the nation and tell me it's not socially acceptable.

It's socially acceptable because if I go to dinner with my friends I want to have a beer. So does everybody else. Driving while hammered is not socially acceptable. Most of us don't get hammered when we go out because we know we have to drive back. Why should our fun be ruined?


I see what you're saying, but at the same time you have to remember that you do not have the right to drive, you have been granted the privelege based on a mutually-agreed upon level of responsibility. By driving under the influence of alcohol or any other substance that impairs your ability to drive, you are reneging on your commitment. Not just that, it's one that saw you taking multiple tests in order to even prove you had any business making a commitment in the first place, and you bear a license that represents that.

I mean, have your fun, but just realize that while you may not be getting hammered to the point of an obvious inability to function behind the wheel, one single drink can and does alter virtually every human being's perspective for a while (however subtle) as well as breaking a promise to every driver, motorcycle rider, bicyclist and pedestrian on the road.

Also... going out and having "a beer or two" and then driving will put you over the legal limit, and if it is noticable to any degree that you are intoxicated from any amount of alcohol you shouldn't be farking driving anywhere. Here's a thought: Drink some water for an hour or two. Don't have anywhere to go? Your own damn fault for staying out too late drinking.

Sorry to be a dick, but there's really absolutely no excuse for driving while intoxicated. As cliche as it sounds, I always get a designated driver, call a cab, walk (I'm more than confident in my ability to avoid major streets and make my way home in a semi-stupor, because I speak from experience)... something besides being the thing the rest of the people on the street worry about after a certain hour.

/not a cop
//not AA
///don't drink and drive, please
 
2012-12-08 05:41:02 PM
Oh I get it. Even if they're weren't guns available to people, we would still find ways to kill each other. Clever!

And as an aside, left-leaning shiatbags like Costas have 6-8 ARMED bodyguards with them 24/7. Wake me when the hypocrisy is gone.
 
2012-12-08 05:43:57 PM
Drunk drivers belong in the hottest corner of hell, along with Hitler, Jerry Sandusky, and Dick Cheney.
 
2012-12-08 05:45:27 PM
How about those Cowboys!!!
 
2012-12-08 05:53:27 PM
Yet another example of the thug culture rampant in the NBA.

...wait, this was in the NFL? Isolated incident! Isolated incident! Like all the other ones.
 
2012-12-08 06:01:55 PM

HaywoodJablonski: muck4doo: Sucks for Brandon Carr. He was attending the funeral of Belcher today, now he's going to be going to another one for a former team mate.

Is this real life or the plot of the next Final Destination?


Dear God... Brandon Carr... is KIRA! O_O
i1182.photobucket.com

DAMN YOU, KIRA! >:O
 
2012-12-08 06:02:49 PM
What savages. Truly sickening.
 
2012-12-08 06:21:42 PM
There need to be more laws against drinking and driving.
Make them both illegal, raise the taxes on booze and gasoline, and ban all fast cars.
 
2012-12-08 06:21:54 PM
RIP to Brown, Brent should get the maximum sentence
 
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