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(CBC)   Micro-cars are trendy, fuel efficient, and you can park wherever you want for free if you get creative   (cbc.ca) divider line 138
    More: Spiffy, fuel efficient, parking  
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15551 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Dec 2012 at 1:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-08 01:51:43 PM

Quantumbunny: You mean by parking illegally Subby? She's a pretentious biatch driving a shiatty car powered by smug. That $12,000+ car costs more, gets worse gas mileage, is less safe, and does more damage to the environment than dozens of adult vehicles.


You should have just skipped these lies and gone right to the trolling.

Here's what's going to happen: cities will realize they're losing revenue because of microcars and institute micro-only parking, increasing revenue by getting more cars in the same amount of space (more cars means more meters means more revenue). In my city the dreaded PPA has already solved the problem by doing away with meters entirely and going to a European-style kiosk system, which means as many cars can park on a block as can fit. They've also introduced 2-wheel only parking downtown for people with motorcycles and scooters, and turned the old parking meter stanchions into bike racks.
 
2012-12-08 01:55:07 PM

Ima4nic8or: I like the idea of microcars but dont like the execution, especially todays models. A Peel Trident or Isetta would be cool but not the Smart or IQ. The things that piss me off about those are cost and cost. Despite their diminutive size they are not all that cheap. The Smart costs more than a Yaris, yet the Yaris will fit 4 folks, has a trunk and doesnt require premium (the other cost). Why is it that these dinky cars all seem to require premium? That sort of kills any potential cost savings from improved fuel economy. Not to mention that they dont get all the great economy. Again, the Yaris will match the smart in fuel economy as no doubt would many other non-micro sub-compacts.


American car companies don't want to sell micro cars, as they make huge profits on things like SUVs and pickups, but smaller profits on small cars. As demand goes up, models will get better and prices will drop. Right now, if I could buy a new car, I'd buy a Fiat 500, which is right on the edge of the microcar range.
 
2012-12-08 01:56:31 PM

Ima4nic8or: Why is it that these dinky cars all seem to require premium?


Forced-induction engines usually require premium and you have to use forced-induction to get these tiny engines to put out any meaningful power.
 
2012-12-08 02:03:21 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: You think that the Smart Car is a small car?

THIS is a small car!


Was waiting for the Peel P50 (and the Top Gear orangutan) to pop up in this thread.

A car so small you can drag it behind you at work...
 
2012-12-08 02:05:58 PM
Ima4nic8or,
I like the idea of microcars but dont like the execution, especially todays models. A Peel Trident or Isetta would be cool but not the Smart or IQ. The things that piss me off about those are cost and cost. Despite their diminutive size they are not all that cheap. The Smart costs more than a Yaris, yet the Yaris will fit 4 folks, has a trunk and doesnt require premium (the other cost). Why is it that these dinky cars all seem to require premium? That sort of kills any potential cost savings from improved fuel economy. Not to mention that they dont get all the great economy. Again, the Yaris will match the smart in fuel economy as no doubt would many other non-micro sub-compacts.


Mercedes dropped the ball on the design. They should have made an updated version of the VW beetle. Instead they have a flawed car that only works as a 'second car' for the city.
 
2012-12-08 02:06:41 PM
They're fast too

Link
 
2012-12-08 02:09:05 PM

Ima4nic8or: I like the idea of microcars but dont like the execution, especially todays models. A Peel Trident or Isetta would be cool but not the Smart or IQ. The things that piss me off about those are cost and cost. Despite their diminutive size they are not all that cheap. The Smart costs more than a Yaris, yet the Yaris will fit 4 folks, has a trunk and doesnt require premium (the other cost). Why is it that these dinky cars all seem to require premium? That sort of kills any potential cost savings from improved fuel economy. Not to mention that they dont get all the great economy. Again, the Yaris will match the smart in fuel economy as no doubt would many other non-micro sub-compacts.


i agree. tiny cars are neat but holy crap what's with the huge price tags? come on! who's kidding who? an itty-bitty vehicle is not using anywhere near the raw material that goes into a 4 dr sedan, SUV or p'up. still they have the balls to charge a farking fortune for them. meanwhile you could just say 'screw this' and go buy the lightly used sports car / convertible / whatever that you really want for much less. sure, corvettes are dooshbag magnets but dammit what a great toy.
 
2012-12-08 02:11:38 PM
I would love to see her squeeze in between two beater pickups. Dude comes out, sees he's now blocked in, backs into her and pushes her POS into the other pickup while smashing her grill.

Otherwise, I couldn't give two shiats where she parks.
 
2012-12-08 02:12:08 PM
Walk. Pedal. Take the bus if you're crippled.
 
2012-12-08 02:12:21 PM
"Parking downtown can be outrageously expensive," Melanson said. "And monthly parking is just way beyond my budget. There's just no way I can afford a downtown monthly parking spot."

Learn to walk, kthxbhye
 
2012-12-08 02:12:48 PM

maram500: Day_Old_Dutchie: You think that the Smart Car is a small car?

THIS is a small car!

Was waiting for the Peel P50 (and the Top Gear orangutan) to pop up in this thread.

A car so small you can drag it behind you at work...


That was an awesome TG bit, watching a dude my size fold himself into the vehicular equivalent of a 55 gallon drum.
 
2012-12-08 02:14:15 PM

Ima4nic8or: I like the idea of microcars but dont like the execution, especially todays models. A Peel Trident or Isetta would be cool but not the Smart or IQ. The things that piss me off about those are cost and cost. Despite their diminutive size they are not all that cheap. The Smart costs more than a Yaris, yet the Yaris will fit 4 folks, has a trunk and doesnt require premium (the other cost). Why is it that these dinky cars all seem to require premium? That sort of kills any potential cost savings from improved fuel economy. Not to mention that they dont get all the great economy. Again, the Yaris will match the smart in fuel economy as no doubt would many other non-micro sub-compacts.


Part of the problem is that a smaller car can have a WORSE drag profile than a large one.

The Smart car is not an exceptionally short or narrow body . Its prominent feature is being exceptionally SHORT. But they just truncated the back "flat", rather than tapering, to keep a modicum of usable interior space.

The problem is that drag isn't all about having a rounded front and smooth sides (but it helps). A flat back gives no place for the wake to converge, instead it creates a low pressure area that drags the vehicle back.

Of course the mpg isn't bad at all. But a Geo Metro will get better mpg with like 2x-3x the usable space inside. Smart car has a trick for exceptional parking situations, but you need to face that problem regularly. If you're just going to Fry's, well, they've got a parking lot, and it doesn't matter if you have a Metro, a Smart car, or a Hummer, if you find a space, it's a space. They do "compact car parking only" spaces, yes, but those accommodate a wide range of small cars, a Smart has no additional benefit in using those.
 
2012-12-08 02:17:18 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Electrify:A Scion iQ gets 37 MPG on the highway, which i less than a Ford Fiesta at 40 MPG. Meanwhile the iQ in Europe comes in at about 45 MPG.

You said it. 1982 Honda Civics got 50 to 60 MPG on the highway, and close to 50 around town.


I'll see your '82 Honda, and raise you a 1960 Beetle!

/Dihatsu Charade unavailable for comment
 
2012-12-08 02:20:18 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: I demand that the parking lines be repainted to fix this discrepancy. Equality for all.


The parking meters in my neighborhood (and I think much of NYC) have been replaced with "Muni-meters" that print out a ticket that you have to put on your dashboard. Much more efficient in addition to avoiding the small car problem.
 
2012-12-08 02:27:53 PM
A Halifax woman says she's found a way to beat expensive downtown parking by squeezing her tiny Smart micro-car between two cars parked at meters.

She can't possibly think this is legal, can she? Guess who just became the target of every cop in Halifax.
 
2012-12-08 02:33:04 PM

jtown: She can't possibly think this is legal, can she? Guess who just became the target of every cop in Halifax.


Knowing the Canadians and their love of the disgusting notion of "fairness", I'm betting their traffic laws say that if you park in a legal space and there's no meter, you don't have to pay.

Here in the States, if you do that, you get a ticket; hell, I've seen people get tickets for not feeding the meter when the meter head was missing!
 
2012-12-08 02:38:05 PM
"when there's just six inches on either end."

Kinky...
 
2012-12-08 02:39:10 PM

The One True TheDavid: Walk. Pedal. Take the bus if you're crippled.


It's called "Independence". I Wait For No One.
 
2012-12-08 02:39:36 PM
"I thought, if I can fit, why not?"

Using that same argument, anyone who wants can park on the sidewalk, or the median, or the middle of the street. "Hey, the car fit, so I just parked there".

Her parking plan has left some parking authorities scratching their heads. So far, she's only had one ticket for $25. She plans on fighting any more in the future.

I can't imagine what argument she would have in court, other than "I don't want to pay to park, and I don't care if I'm blocking the people who paid for those parking spaces".
 
2012-12-08 02:41:03 PM
Smart Move: Get a car that lets you legally park for free in an un-metered, unrestricted space between two parking spaces.

Dumb Move: Going on TV to talk about your little loophole and how it saves you hundreds in parking fees each month.

Next week's news today: City paints 'no parking' lines on road between these two spaces.
 
2012-12-08 02:41:06 PM

ZAZ: squeezing her tiny Smart micro-car between two cars parked at meters

If she does that to me she's going to find her micro-car crunched into a nano-car when I try to pull out.

/ITG


Illegally parked also means her insurance doesn't have to pay out, she'll get fined by the city and you can take her to court for violation of road laws that led to your vehicle becoming damaged.
 
2012-12-08 02:41:15 PM

Dwight_Yeast: jtown: She can't possibly think this is legal, can she? Guess who just became the target of every cop in Halifax.

Knowing the Canadians and their love of the disgusting notion of "fairness", I'm betting their traffic laws say that if you park in a legal space and there's no meter, you don't have to pay.

Here in the States, if you do that, you get a ticket; hell, I've seen people get tickets for not feeding the meter when the meter head was missing!


I got a ticket while walking from my car to the multi space meter.
 
2012-12-08 02:42:13 PM

JuggleGeek: Using that same argument, anyone who wants can park on the sidewalk, or the median, or the middle of the street. "Hey, the car fit, so I just parked there".


Incorrect, though here in Philly, it's acceptable to park on the median on South Broad St, because back in the 1960s the mayor got pelted with rocks when he suggested parking reform in South Philly.

I'll point it out again: remember that she's in Canada, not the US, and that a lot of their laws are fundamentally different there.
 
2012-12-08 02:43:25 PM
I like the idea of a micro car. I just think that the form factor, mileage, and cost should be close to Indian. Couple grand. 50mpg. Biodiesel. That kind of thing.
 
2012-12-08 02:44:04 PM
The most frustrating thing about these kinds of cars in North America is that they are so weighed down with airbags and other safety essentials that they don't get much better mileage than a standard subcompact. A Scion iQ gets 37 MPG on the highway, which i less than a Ford Fiesta at 40 MPG. Meanwhile the iQ in Europe comes in at about 45 MPG.

My 1981 Toyota Starlet got 50 MPG easily. It also had a manual choke to start on the coldest days. I miss that car.
 
2012-12-08 02:54:33 PM

whither_apophis: Airbags are worth whatever paltry weight they add, 30 lbs tops? I'm sure if you add up the luxury items: motors for nine way adjustable seats, heated back seats, speakers everywhere, power windows, etc is much heavier.


Fark, I can't stand cars that don't let you manually adjust the seats. For a "luxury" it sure manages to annoy the hell out of me while waiting 2 minutes to adjust, instead of 2 seconds.
 
2012-12-08 02:54:47 PM

fjnorton: An they are so safe
[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x435]


What does a Chinese- made midsize car have to do with a Smart? The car in your picture is a Chinese- made FAW/ VW Passat. Basically, it's an early 90s Passat built under license by FAW, a Chinese carmaker. I can't say for sure about THAT one, but many of the Chinese- licensed versions of other carmakers' cars do worse in crash testing than the original. Basically, that's a Chinese midsize family car that was hit by a bus. Again, it has nothing to do with a Smart car. That's not to say that the Smart is the safest vehicle on the road. I know it's not. But the manufacturer took great pains to ensure that it has an extremely strong passenger compartment and as many energy- absorbing features as they could add in order to make it as ssafe as possible. Google "Tridion safety cell" for more information.
 
2012-12-08 02:58:41 PM

Ima4nic8or: I like the idea of microcars but dont like the execution, especially todays models. A Peel Trident or Isetta would be cool but not the Smart or IQ. The things that piss me off about those are cost and cost. Despite their diminutive size they are not all that cheap. The Smart costs more than a Yaris, yet the Yaris will fit 4 folks, has a trunk and doesnt require premium (the other cost). Why is it that these dinky cars all seem to require premium? That sort of kills any potential cost savings from improved fuel economy. Not to mention that they dont get all the great economy. Again, the Yaris will match the smart in fuel economy as no doubt would many other non-micro sub-compacts.


They don't "REQUIRE" premium, they just recommend it if you want the advertised mileage.
 
2012-12-08 03:00:18 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Electrify: The most frustrating thing about these kinds of cars in North America is that they are so weighed down with airbags and other safety essentials that they don't get much better mileage than a standard subcompact. A Scion iQ gets 37 MPG on the highway, which i less than a Ford Fiesta at 40 MPG. Meanwhile the iQ in Europe comes in at about 45 MPG.

It's not so much all the safety stuff as the fact that we let the CAFE standards stay flat (and in some cases, roll backwards) for the last 25 years while Europe has been aggressively pushing to make cars less polluting and more efficient.

Also, micro cars in Europe aren't meant for highway driving: they're town runabouts for those who need a car.

To some degree, the problem isn't with the car, it's with our (lack of) development and long-term planning over the last 70 years. Americans still tend to have the mindset that the suburban model is the "right" way to live, which means having a car to get to any place you need to go. Europe is much more town or village-centric, so even the suburbs they are building tend to be around a walkable town center; you may live on the outskirts of Rome or Paris, and need a car to get to your job, but you can still walk to the shops to get milk and bread.

What we need to do in this country is increase density and halt sprawl. We're moving in the right direction with people returning to urban areas and rural ones halting suburban creep, but it will take a generation or more to turn things around.


This.

I live on the edge of town, but I get a free bus pass and discounted taxi from my employer and the city so I *don't* have to drive into town... and even where I am I can walk and get groceries easily 1-4 blocks away. I might have to be creative since it's all ethnic shops, but what the hey, there's still milk and eggs at the Korean place, fresh produce at 4 shops, and I can bike to a supermarket proper anyway.

It's awesome. Not as awesome as when I lived a stone's throw from the twice weekly framer's market, but I can hit up a supermarket proper once a month for cheap staples and dry/canned goods and then just walk to get food for making dinner and lunch every other day or so.

I'd say it's gonna take more than a generation, though. Even my won't-stop-talking-about-sustainable-communities roommate defaults to his car and drives two miles to the supermarket for stuff that he could have walked down the street to get. Maybe slightly more expensive, but gas + circling for parking + headache = I'll walk every time.

We were both raised in car friendly Detroit suburbs, though, and old habits die hard.
 
2012-12-08 03:03:26 PM
I love Chinese crash tests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YbDCvrBBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Gy19D9Hxc&playnext=1&list=PLE8BDF60 B E4BF7A15&feature=results_main

/I am not a freak about having the bigger car, but please don't allow Chinese cars in.
 
2012-12-08 03:05:29 PM
I don't know about parking in Halifax, but in Winnipeg downtown, at least,

here's a diagram:

____________ _______________________meter______________________________________


You can only park in the space inbetween where the green circle parking sign is, and there's a meter to pay and get a ticket to put in your window and one to keep. Usually a couple of dollars for 2 hours. You're fine if you park in the parking zone. You're towed if you're parked in the red sign no parking zone on either side of the parking zone. Simple as that.


Kraftwerk Orange


The Smart car is designed to be parked nose-in/tail-in in a typical parallel spot.

That might work in Europe, but I'm pretty darn sure it's illegal or at the very least not-advised in North America.
 
2012-12-08 03:06:31 PM
coolandcollected.com
 
2012-12-08 03:08:16 PM
dammit it didn't work. all because I used > and

______ \no parking to the left | parking to the right/ _____________________meter ____________________\parking to the left | no parking to the right / ________________
 
2012-12-08 03:08:27 PM
It is well worth paying to park to drive the car I drive instead of a Smart car. Also, I enjoy stepping on it next to a Prius or similar car. For every gallon of gas you don't burn, I will use it to give me joy. Sort of like vegetarianism, where I will eat two animals for every animal you don't eat.

It does suck to park it downtown though because the spots in lots are too damned small, and I don't like street parking. Fortunately I don't frequent there. Also, I'd be pissed if a Smart car parked behind or in front of my parallel spot because it would make it much more difficult to get out of the spot.
 
2012-12-08 03:09:37 PM
Also, the Smart Car was offered in Diesel in its first 5 years or so in Canada (easily 50-80 mpg). Then it switched to gas (not any better than any other subcompact, approx 30 mpg)
 
2012-12-08 03:10:19 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: The Smart car is designed to be parked nose-in/tail-in in a typical parallel spot.

[www.transitmiami.com image 468x312]


Ha, so the lady is not just a douche, she's a stupid douche.
 
2012-12-08 03:10:29 PM

Electrify: The most frustrating thing about these kinds of cars in North America is that they are so weighed down with airbags and other safety essentials that they don't get much better mileage than a standard subcompact. A Scion iQ gets 37 MPG on the highway, which i less than a Ford Fiesta at 40 MPG. Meanwhile the iQ in Europe comes in at about 45 MPG.

---------------------------------------------
The Smart and iQ in Europe have all the same safety features. Besides, everything required under new NHTSA standards passed between 1980 and the present adds less than 190 pounds to the weight of the car. Airbags, side impact beams in the doors, etc, have NOTHING to do with reduced fuel efficiency. What DOES affect efficiency is that everyone expects to have a hot rod these days in the US. The average car today can accelerate from 0-60 MPH in less than 8 seconds. In 1982, the Chevy Corvette had a 0-60 time of 9.1 seconds. Nowadays, that would be considered slow for a midsize sedan. People consider anything over 10.5 to be dangerous, when 25 years ago, 11 seconds would have been called "zippy" in a family car.
The Smart, while considered underpowered here, uses the largest available engine in Europe as its standard (only) engine here.
Also, if you're using British MPG figures for the "45 MPG" number for the iQ, keep in mind that British (Imperial) gallons are bigger than US gallons. That accounts for a lot of difference.

And, those of you talking about how your old whatever the heck got crazy mileage, remember how slow it was back then. And if you're checking EPA numbers for the old cars, keep in mind the EPA has revised their test standards several times since the 1980s, and the current tests give much lower mileage figures than the old ones did for the same car.
 
2012-12-08 03:16:44 PM

Enemabag Jones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Gy19D9Hxc&playnext=1&list=PLE8BDF60 B E4BF7A15&feature=results_main


Christ, do they make their cars out of foil?
 
2012-12-08 03:18:26 PM

aukutsutsu: It is well worth paying to park to drive the car I drive instead of a Smart car. Also, I enjoy stepping on it next to a Prius or similar car. For every gallon of gas you don't burn, I will use it to give me joy. Sort of like vegetarianism, where I will eat two animals for every animal you don't eat.


Why? You do understand that there's a difference between the freedom to do whatever you want and simply wasting resources, don't you?

My grandfather -a die-hard Republican, who started his life as a farmer- used to quote something his grandfather said: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."

That's real conservatism.
 
2012-12-08 03:19:38 PM
Hey lady, if you squirm to get within 6 inches of the rear bumper of my pickup, I'm not going to feel bad about pushing your car back as I leave. Youre not important enough to make me wait.
 
2012-12-08 03:24:02 PM
It seems like you could get most of the benefits of microcars by owning a motorcycle, with none of the embarrassment of owning a microcar.
 
2012-12-08 03:27:01 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Hey lady, if you squirm to get within 6 inches of the rear bumper of my pickup,


If you can't get out of a spot in the city with 6" on each end of your car, then you shouldn't be parking in the city.

A hint: the shorter the wheelbase, the easier it is to get out of a tight space.

This is what streets look like in my neighborhood:

www.boutell.com
One lane of traffic, one of parking. Some of the smaller side streets are barely wide enough to get a car down.

Microcars make sense here, and my neighbors are buying them.
 
2012-12-08 03:31:11 PM

ph0rk: It seems like you could get most of the benefits of microcars by owning a motorcycle, with none of the embarrassment of owning a microcar.


While a motorcycle can be a good option when it comes to parking, it can't help when you're bringing home a big load of groceries or taking your lab (or any medium or large-size dog) to the vet. And they're really only practical as year-round vehicles if you live below the frost zone.

If, like the woman in TFA, you live in CANADA, you can ride maybe five or six months of the year.

I'm a pretty serious cyclist, rode home in the rain last night, but even I stop biking when the temperature gets below freezing. I know some people who don't.
 
2012-12-08 03:37:29 PM

Dwight_Yeast: aukutsutsu: It is well worth paying to park to drive the car I drive instead of a Smart car. Also, I enjoy stepping on it next to a Prius or similar car. For every gallon of gas you don't burn, I will use it to give me joy. Sort of like vegetarianism, where I will eat two animals for every animal you don't eat.

Why? You do understand that there's a difference between the freedom to do whatever you want and simply wasting resources, don't you?

My grandfather -a die-hard Republican, who started his life as a farmer- used to quote something his grandfather said: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."

That's real conservatism.


These are the same doofuses who bought Hummers to "piss off the libs" and then biatched every time fuel costs rose.
 
2012-12-08 03:38:59 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Representative of the unwashed masses: Hey lady, if you squirm to get within 6 inches of the rear bumper of my pickup,

If you can't get out of a spot in the city with 6" on each end of your car, then you shouldn't be parking in the city.


If I have to do a 15 point turn to get out because of her she had better expect a couple of dings here and there. You box me in, I get to feel my way out.
 
2012-12-08 03:43:10 PM
Dwight_Yeast ,
While a motorcycle can be a good option when it comes to parking, it can't help when you're bringing home a big load of groceries or taking your lab (or any medium or large-size dog) to the vet. And they're really only practical as year-round vehicles if you live below the frost zone.

If a microcar is just two seats as in the smart car, you can't do much with it anyway other then drive people around and can't move anything bigger then another person, requiring a second vehicle. The basic smart starts at $12,500. Not cheap for a second car. A motorcycle is probably almost as useful and much cheaper.

/Throw in anything with a backseat and that is no longer a problem for another 1-2k new.
 
2012-12-08 03:46:53 PM

Dwight_Yeast: While a motorcycle can be a good option when it comes to parking, it can't help when you're bringing home a big load of groceries or taking your lab (or any medium or large-size dog) to the vet. And they're really only practical as year-round vehicles if you live below the frost zone.


Nonsense
 
2012-12-08 03:47:15 PM

unyon: If you got the parking skills, that farker can be stuffed just about anywhere.


I've had the same experience with your mom.
 
2012-12-08 03:48:16 PM

Enemabag Jones: Not cheap for a second car.


...and we're back to the problem of the American suburban mindset. People who live in cities (like this woman) aren't buying microcars as "second cars". They're buying them as their only car.

Enemabag Jones: A motorcycle is probably almost as useful and much cheaper.


Again, you're missing the fact that you can't really ride a motorcycle in Canada in the winter, unless you're young and insane. Some people like some comfort, like an enclosed cab and... you know, heat.

Representative of the unwashed masses: If I have to do a 15 point turn to get out because of her she had better expect a couple of dings here and there.


You park in the city, you expect a couple dings here and there. Full stop. Also: fold your mirrors in, or there's a good chance they'll get clipped.
 
2012-12-08 03:50:42 PM

Funbags: Dwight_Yeast: While a motorcycle can be a good option when it comes to parking, it can't help when you're bringing home a big load of groceries or taking your lab (or any medium or large-size dog) to the vet. And they're really only practical as year-round vehicles if you live below the frost zone.

Nonsense


I've heard about those, and they seem like an excellent idea. It's just that you can't actually buy one yet.
 
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