feckingmorons: Unions are the scourge of this nation.
kmmontandon: feckingmorons:Unions are the scourge of this nation.It's sad that you believe this.
feckingmorons: Why? What reasonable defense can there be to drinking or smoking pot before operating machinery?Unions are the scourge of this nation.
Brontes: Thank you mi'lord for posting in this thread. Please tell us more about how unions are bad and how employees having collective bargainining is worse than the company management having collective bargaining.Then tell us how many companies have gone bankrupt for paying the janitors to much.
Errk: I was in the Teamsters for 8 years or so. People who should have been fired time and time again for various reasons never got the axe. Sucked.
Brontes: My first experience with unions was at 16 as a bagger.
kev_dog: Brontes: My first experience with unions was at 16 as a bagger.Ditto. I only worked like 10-15 hours each week so was not eligible for any benefits, yet my first 3 paychecks went to pay my union initiation fees... and weekly dues thereafter. I got really soured on unions because of that, and the fact that many people there took advantage of the system as much as they could. I think there was a time and place for unions- and that time has long gone.
costermonger: If a union shop can't fire people that should be fired it usually boils down to one of two reasons: the company has agreed to allow the union too many powers relating to employee disciplinary actions - likely because as far as concessions to, it doesn't have a direct dollar value associated with it, or the HR people who actually fired the losers in question failed to do their job properly and as a result, something about the process was flawed and doesn't stand up to the grievance arbitration.tl:dr version: the company agrees to the CBA just like the union does. If they want the ability to fire idiots easily, they need to think about that when negotiating the contract.
MmmmBacon: Errk: I was in the Teamsters for 8 years or so. People who should have been fired time and time again for various reasons never got the axe. Sucked.I'm currently a member of the ILWU, and I agree, it does suck when some employee who deserves to get fired skates out of it time and again. I know one guy in particular in my department that I dubbed "Bulletproof", because he quite simply is "The Man Who Cannot Be Fired".But it isn't because the Union is somehow shielding him from being let go. Time and again, this particular guy has been on a previous Level 4 and facing yet another corrective action (which would push that 4 to a 5, which is Termination), and every single time Management has screwed up somewhere, so they end up just extending the current Level 4 again. Sometimes it is a paperwork error, other times it is management not getting their facts in order prior to Discovery, but in the end it works out the same way: HR won't allow this guy to be fired, because of a Management screw-up.Trust me, there are lots of guys quite high up in the Local who would love to see Bulletproof and others gone, but we aren't going to do Management's job for them. And it is indeed frustrating. Lots of others in our department see this stuff going on and assume the Union is shielding these bad apples, but that is anything but the truth.
Brontes: My first experience with unions was at 16 as a bagger. i was like, what the F do these union guys get a hunk of my paycheck for? Then, at 22, as an engineer for a semiconductor company, my thought was, "Why aren't there people making sure I don't work 60 hours a week while being paid for 40? They pay the techs overtime, why not the engineers?Quickly left semi-conductor land after that realization hit home.
MurphyMurphy: "a number of employees from the Jefferson North assembly plant who were discharged from the company in September 2010 after appearing in a local TV station's story about their off-duty conduct."So were they drinking on the job or slamming down a couple in the lot after their shift?And were they caught because there was some workplace disruption/safety hazard or because some reporter was stalking through the weeds w/ a camera looking for their meal ticket?It doesn't look good and none of it belongs on any companies property if you work there (unless part of your job is to drink beer, if it is let me send you my resume) but for the public to be demanding firings? Arrogent, asinine, and presumptive.The horror that these men got to get their jobs back and make a living isn't about them or the beer at all. It's about getting your panties in a bunch because you secretly sit around and wait for reasons to scream about unions.The whole outrage over this shiat is just political. Every person screaming "THEY NEED TO BE FIRED" might as well be screaming something about 0bamafarts Mao Stalin Usurpers, or how they want their country back./never liked ANY company that went around firing people for their first farkup//more of a 3 strikes or 2 for the same thing type of person
ReapTheChaos: This.Back in the day before there were any laws or government agencies regulating safety and welfare of workers, I can see why unions were needed, but today that's simply not the case.
morlinge: ReapTheChaos: This.Back in the day before there were any laws or government agencies regulating safety and welfare of workers, I can see why unions were needed, but today that's simply not the case.It is this kind of thinking that really annoys me. We as a nation are getting paid less money to work more hours than we were 5 years ago let alone 25. The average work week in america is well over 40 hours. People are expected to work that without overtime. America gets fewer paid holidays than any other industrialized nation, America gets less maternity leave than any other nation. Companies are not hiring because they are forcing their employees to work more fore less pay. If someone complains they know they cannot get another job because companies are not hiring. Of course they aren't hiring because they don't need to. The pay disparity between workers and CEOs is 343 including bonuses and compensation. Peoples benefits are being cut. Healthcare costs are rising. Standard of life for American workers is slipping.In what world are unions no longer needed?
The_Six_Fingered_Man: BTW: You have to be real lame not to be able to find a job. I moved across the country without one and was able to secure full time employment within 7 days, charging the same hourly rate.
morlinge: The_Six_Fingered_Man:BTW: You have to be real lame not to be able to find a job. I moved across the country without one and was able to secure full time employment within 7 days, charging the same hourly rate.Well I have a job, so I guess I'm not lame in your world... Anyway let's get back to your foolishness. How many right to work states are there? How many nonunion jobs are there? How many companies that don't allow unions? How many years has the Republican party been convincing the people of america that unions are the problem and not the solution. You've got to remember that Unions today are not half as strong as they were 20 years ago. So of course they haven't been able to help.My point is not that a weakened union is barely better than no union, my point is that a strong union is better than no union.I'll ignore the idiocy about how awesome you are because you can find a job.
The_Six_Fingered_Man: Love the comments on that site. "Maybe it was just Root Beer and homemade tobacco cigarettes! There's no proof of wrongdoing!""These guys deserve their jobs b/c of what unions did decades ago!"
starsrift: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Love the comments on that site. "Maybe it was just Root Beer and homemade tobacco cigarettes! There's no proof of wrongdoing!""These guys deserve their jobs b/c of what unions did decades ago!"Oh, it looks like beer to me.But I wouldn't lay wagers on the toking, could just be homerolled cigarettes. More to the point, I have trouble believing they would get back on the job and the foreman or line manager didn't notice the smell. Then again, maybe the middle management didn't care. TFA doesn't specify weed, either in the new article or the two year old one.
The_Six_Fingered_Man: As for "companies aren't hiring," that's a crock of shiat and you know it. The jobless rate is at it's lowest of the past four years. Companies are hiring and if you can't find a job, then that's on you. (not you specifically)
The_Six_Fingered_Man: So tell me exactly what use the union has in a weakened state? How are they attempting to strengthen themselves in order to push back against this horrible corporate oppression? You say that Unions are required in order to fight all these injustices, but then go on to say that they can't do anything about them. So why are they needed again?
morlinge: The_Six_Fingered_Man: As for "companies aren't hiring," that's a crock of shiat and you know it. The jobless rate is at it's lowest of the past four years. Companies are hiring and if you can't find a job, then that's on you. (not you specifically)Okay I wanted to ignore this stupidity, but as you keep bringing out I guess I'm left with no choice, because I have so many responses to your comment I'll answer several times. I'll order them in least to more polite.morlinge You haven't had problems finding a job? Glad to see that village idiot job market hasn't dried up... (started with crack whore, but thought we didn't need to be that rude.)morlinge Typical stupid Conservative thinking. I've got mine. Plus we have our own anecdote to prove us right. We can ignore other anecdotes plus we can ignore facts. I know it must be easy to get a job because I have one. Now I might read that despite the fact that the unemployment rate is down, that the average pay is down too. Which means people are being forced to take jobs for less money than they were. This might include jobs that don't pay the cost of living for that person. But screw facts I have an anecdote.morlinge Well I understand that it is getting easier but it is still not easy to find a job. Plus a job that pays close to what they were getting paid before just isn't happening. And in all honesty the companies are still making a lot of money, more money than they were when they were paying people the previous salary, so in fairness I would have thought that they should still pay the same wages. I mean the CEO and upper management wages have gone up during the time. So ours should stay the same. Still decent post.morlinge Dear Sir or maddam. Thank you for your post. congrats on the job that you were able to find. What a great person you must be. I'm sure you are the pride of you parents/parent/guardian/town/city/etc. However there are some people not as great as you. So they are having some problems. So your ...
morlinge: The_Six_Fingered_Man: So tell me exactly what use the union has in a weakened state? How are they attempting to strengthen themselves in order to push back against this horrible corporate oppression? You say that Unions are required in order to fight all these injustices, but then go on to say that they can't do anything about them. So why are they needed again?This is the same genius thinking that says. Well I have a massive cut on my leg. A very small band aid doesn't seem to have fixed anything. Now my friend is telling me that maybe a bigger band aid, or medical support might help. Personally I think I've tried medical support and it doesn't seem to work. I'm just going to let it be,
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