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(The New York Times)   Krugman: "Let's get this straight: America is not facing a fiscal crisis." Well it's not like he's some Nobel-prize-winning economist or something   (nytimes.com) divider line 332
    More: Obvious, economists  
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11753 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Dec 2012 at 8:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-07 03:08:03 PM
krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!
 
2012-12-07 03:22:35 PM
Yes but fiscal cliff fiscal cliff fiscal cliff. Your argument is invalid.
 
2012-12-07 03:23:21 PM
But who will take care of the media when no one will watch them if there isn't anything grabbing you by the throat, joking fear into you?
 
2012-12-07 03:25:08 PM
I'd like to cockpunch the next jackass that utters the term "fiscal cliff"
 
2012-12-07 04:03:31 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'd like to cockpunch the next jackass that utters the term "fiscal cliff"


img6.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-07 04:44:46 PM
Dr. Krugman: You should keep bacon, smoking cigarettes and drinking moonshine. You're not having a stroke right now.
 
2012-12-07 04:48:52 PM
Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?
 
2012-12-07 04:52:47 PM

thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?


Because said groups believe less govt spending on safety net entitlements = more money in their pockets, less welfare cadillac queens.
 
2012-12-07 04:54:55 PM

Elzar: thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

Because said groups believe less govt spending on safety net entitlements = more money in their pockets, less welfare cadillac queens.


but that would mean they sell fewer cadillacs and tiaras?
 
2012-12-07 04:55:15 PM

thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?


My guess is that the billionaires paying a paltry 15% on their capital gains want to keep it that way.
 
2012-12-07 05:01:08 PM

Marcus Aurelius: thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

My guess is that the billionaires paying a paltry 15% on their capital gains want to keep it that way.


yeah, i guess it only really makes sense as a way to change the subject to a lesser-evil. sorry for the threadjack, that just seemed like a really weird sentence to me.
 
2012-12-07 05:04:58 PM
He's a commie libtard, therefore his argument is invalid.

/just preempting the FARK "independent" derp brigade.
 
2012-12-07 05:05:39 PM

thomps: Elzar: thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

Because said groups believe less govt spending on safety net entitlements = more money in their pockets, less welfare cadillac queens.

but that would mean they sell fewer cadillacs and tiaras?


Profit margins are pretty low on tiaras these days. Better to just keep the cash tucked away in the Caymans.
 
2012-12-07 05:26:49 PM
Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-07 06:08:28 PM

FlashHarry: krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!


You messed that up.
 
2012-12-07 06:12:26 PM

DamnYankees: FlashHarry: krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!

You messed that up.


Technically
 
2012-12-07 06:15:16 PM
"Economics has increasingly become an intellectual game played for its own sake and not for its practical consequences for understanding the economic world. Economists have converted the subject into a sort of social mathematics in which analytical rigour is everything and practical relevance is nothing." - Geoffrey M. Hodgson, Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Institutional Economics

"Economics has become increasingly an arcane branch of mathematics rather than dealing with real economic problems." - Milton Friedman near the end of his life

If they had to stand up to real life tests for their mathematically models; they'd be about as accurate as Astrologers.
 
2012-12-07 06:17:40 PM
It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.
 
2012-12-07 06:23:37 PM
The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.
 
2012-12-07 06:34:35 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: DamnYankees: FlashHarry: krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!

You messed that up.

Technically


technically - the best kind of up!
 
2012-12-07 06:36:42 PM

GAT_00: It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.


Who said austerity grows the GDP? Austerity is something you have to do when debt levels become unmanageable.
 
2012-12-07 06:37:28 PM

optikeye: If they had to stand up to real life tests for their mathematically models; they'd be about as accurate as Astrologers.


my god this is a terrible sentence. if i'm interpreting it correctly, it's also the broadest brush you can possibly paint with.
 
2012-12-07 06:37:31 PM

BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.


Logic on fark? You are unwelcome here.
 
2012-12-07 06:39:58 PM

giftedmadness: GAT_00: It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.

Who said austerity grows the GDP? Austerity is something you have to do when debt levels become unmanageable.


so, since the most useful way to look at debt and deficits is in comparison to gdp, the question becomes: does austerity cause steeper drops in gdp or debt levels?
 
2012-12-07 06:44:21 PM

BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.


No problem, as long as I can print my own money to pay it back.
 
2012-12-07 06:47:06 PM

giftedmadness: BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

Logic on fark? You are unwelcome here.


Well, except that's not logic.
 
2012-12-07 06:49:13 PM

giftedmadness: GAT_00: It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.

Who said austerity grows the GDP? Austerity is something you have to do when debt levels become unmanageable.


The whole argument from the Austrian side is that excessive (though I've never seen an Austrian economist look at a level of government spending and declare it not excessive which begs the questions of what is excessive) spending reduces growth. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that austerity will increase growth because there is less government preventing growth.
 
2012-12-07 07:09:49 PM

BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.


Actually according to economic expert consensus, the US is borrowing 69.3 cents per every dollar.

/ Technically correct - the best kind of correct.
 
2012-12-07 07:11:35 PM

Elzar: BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

Actually according to economic expert consensus, the US is borrowing 69.3 cents per every dollar.

/ Technically correct - the best kind of correct.


and technically the better phrasing is that the US currently makes a dollar every year for every 69.3 cents that it cumulatively owes.
 
2012-12-07 08:10:54 PM
our government can borrow at incredibly low interest rates - interest rates on inflation-protected U.S. bonds are actually negative, so investors are paying our government to make use of their money.

If this is true (which I'm assuming it is) then wouldn't it be prudent fiscal policy to be borrowing more money?
 
2012-12-07 08:12:02 PM
He's right that we aren't in a crisis right now - but we will be if we keep it up.

If we don't make some major adjustments, in 20 years we will be farked.
 
2012-12-07 08:12:28 PM
www.iamstaggered.com
 
2012-12-07 08:14:16 PM
Technically - the best way to get her to give you a blowjob
 
2012-12-07 08:14:26 PM
Krugman was alright, but Tony Randall was always my favorite:
i2.listal.com
 
2012-12-07 08:16:52 PM
here's a novel idea to get the 1% to pay up, put up, or shut up once and for all.

www.culturewars.com
 
2012-12-07 08:16:59 PM
Look, there has to be a fiscal crisis. Otherwise, with the wars winding down, employment going up, and the housing market improving, there'd BE NO OTHER CRISES, and then where would we be???
 
2012-12-07 08:17:43 PM
Master K,

*bow*

We are brothers in mind.

We write.

We learn.

We pontificate.

We rewrite.

We realize.

We legalize.

We repay our cognitive debts by stepping peeps up.

We remake power-lifts, i.e. you and me, more specifically, you to me, Sir Krugman, sir.

It's time for you to lift me up...

Thank you.
 
2012-12-07 08:18:00 PM
We're also not in a climate crisis either, but it's best to start addressing these issues sooner rather than later.
 
2012-12-07 08:18:03 PM
In accounting class today, my prof (who is almost certainly either a Libertarian or Republican, though he's sneaky about keeping it out of the classroom) was making kind of the same points. We were going over what different ratios mean when it comes to debt or assets, and he basically lambasted business for holding everything too close to the chest.

Then he blew it by bringing up the Papa Johns Obamacare surcharge and basically saying that was a legitimate thing, but overall during the semester he has seemed far more moderate on how businesses need to at least spend something to keep growing.

He's an interesting fellow, with more than enough experience to convince me for the most part.
 
2012-12-07 08:18:04 PM
TOP men have assured me that the deficit is the biggest drag on our economy. TOP MEN!!!_
 
2012-12-07 08:18:49 PM

Pincy: our government can borrow at incredibly low interest rates - interest rates on inflation-protected U.S. bonds are actually negative, so investors are paying our government to make use of their money.

If this is true (which I'm assuming it is) then wouldn't it be prudent fiscal policy to be borrowing more money?


the government is responsible for adjusting the principal based on inflation. It's not an infinite money making scheme. At the moment people are paying for the privilege because they are betting on inflation. If they're right, the government owes them more money than they originally lent at maturation.
 
2012-12-07 08:18:58 PM

thomps: Elzar: BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

Actually according to economic expert consensus, the US is borrowing 69.3 cents per every dollar.

/ Technically correct - the best kind of correct.

and technically the better phrasing is that the US currently makes a dollar every year for every 69.3 cents that it cumulatively owes.


That's not correct. The only thing you can deduce from that fact is that out of every dollar spent, the US has 31.7 cents in hand, and borrows the other 69.3 cents. If we made a dollar for every 69.3 cents we'd owed--we'd have a surplus.
 
2012-12-07 08:20:08 PM

Omahawg: here's a novel idea to get the 1% to pay up, put up, or shut up once and for all.

[www.culturewars.com image 519x294]


posting a picture on the internet? Doubtful
 
2012-12-07 08:21:37 PM
BIG DEAL LIBERAL COMMUNIST JEW YORK TIMES! NOBLE PRIZE GIVEN TO FARTBONGO AND YERASSISFAT!!!!!

/Did I do that right?
 
2012-12-07 08:22:09 PM
This is a great book on economics I just read, it was recommended by another farker whom I can't recall at the moment

Link
 
2012-12-07 08:22:46 PM
Is this the thread where libertarians come up with a million theories to explain the entire fiscal history of the world EXCEPT FOR Keynesian economics?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-07 08:23:46 PM
He doesn't agree with right-wing jebus, so he is a smelly hippie poopie head with smelly feet.

//fark the facts.
 
2012-12-07 08:25:22 PM

skullkrusher: Omahawg: here's a novel idea to get the 1% to pay up, put up, or shut up once and for all.

[www.culturewars.com image 519x294]

posting a picture on the internet? Doubtful


meh. the end result of an entitled plutocracy throwing fewer and fewer crumbs to the masses always ends up the same anyway. people can only be pacified with sports, dope, and reality television for so long.

when did you first hear of these things called "gated communities". mid-90s? parts of America where us mere normals couldn't even venture into?
 
2012-12-07 08:27:27 PM
graphics8.nytimes.com

stmedia.startribune.com


Looks like Ben Bernanke in drag.
 
2012-12-07 08:27:47 PM
Gee, we're only at 100% debt-to-GDP, no problem there. Just keep piling on the debt, we'll spend our way to prosperity.
 
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