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(Slash Gear)   FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski is getting an iPad for Hanukkah, tells the FAA to hurry up and allow its use during takeoff   (slashgear.com) divider line 24
    More: Cool, Federal Communications Commission, iPads, Hanukkah, FAA, Julius Genachowski, Lars Ulrich  
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1194 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-07 03:23:16 PM  
I was recently told that my noise cancelling headphones had to be turned off. They weren't even attached to any devices so there was no mistake that I was listening to something. The little blue light meant I had to turn it off. Electrical tape fixed that for the next flight.
 
2012-12-07 04:07:39 PM  
If the fact my my phone's attempts to search for a cellular signal will cause electronics failure on this aircraft, I would at this moment like to point out:

1. The moron who designed this plane is unqualified to design even a Civic, as the auto industry has mastered interference testing (imagine if using a cellphone caused some kind of failure in a car, we'd all be dead).
2. I would prefer to exit the aircraft rather than die when the guy in 23C bumps the power button on his iPad by accident
3. ANA offers wifi on their planes and I've see to them lose any despite all those evil signals bouncing around in there

/you should flip your device into airplane mode so the device can turn off antennas and save battery life though
 
2012-12-07 04:16:47 PM  

ha-ha-guy: /you should flip your device into airplane mode so the device can turn off antennas and save battery life though


This is the one that gets me on a lot of flights I've been told turn off all devices during takeoff and that phones should stay off during the whole flight. Well shiat at least the phone has a built in antenna off option whereas some tablets or mp3 players may not have such a feature or it's not as easy to access.

The only reasonable justification I have heard is that it makes anyone using an electronic device stand out so somebody using a device that actually could be harmful to the airplane would stick out. Lets face it though anything capable of disrupting avionics wirelessly (if this is even possible)is going to be really big due to power and antenna requirements. I'm not talking Galaxy S3 big more like pickup truck big.
 
2012-12-07 04:26:54 PM  
That makes no sense...assuming the ban is for "safety"...then what the Hell does being "interwoven in our daily lives" have fark-all to do with anything?
 
2012-12-07 04:53:35 PM  
If there was a 0.00000000001% chance of an iPhone taking out an airplane, does ANYONE think they'd be allowed within 100' of an airplane?
 
2012-12-07 04:55:16 PM  
The 'reasons' for the current ban on electronic devices below 10,000 feet:

1) They want you paying attention during takeoff and landing, so that if the plane crashes you'll be alert enough to escape.
If this were the case, then they would also ban reading books and magazines, and the FAs would walk the aisles, waking everybody up.

2) Electronics might cause interference to flight systems during takeoffs or landings.

a) If this were the case, then electronics should be banned for the entire flight. Interference that can cause a plane to lose control at 9,000 feet can do the same thing at 11,000 feet.
b) If electronic devices can truly cause problems with plane systems, then they should all be confiscated upon boarding and stored in a Faraday cage for the duration of the flight. Many people don't really turn off their devices when told to - only the screen goes off.

3) They don't want your electronic device flying around the cabin if the plane has problems during takeoff and landing.
If this were the case, then they should also ban books and Suzi's Barbie doll that she's holding during takeoff. Many hardcover books weigh a lot more than an ipod. In the event of a crash forceful enough to make a tablet fly out of your hands, and across the cabin, the overhead bins will pop open, dropping suitcases all over the cabin. 

There simply is no good reason for the ban. There is no good reason why I can't wear noise-canceling headphones during takeoff. There is no good reason why I can't read my 9 ounce Kindle during takeoff.
 
2012-12-07 04:56:06 PM  
Because of my job as a trainer, a month ago I was carrying 40 LTE capable cell phones with me on my flights. If it were indeed possible for electronic interference to crash a plane, Al Queda would have sent a someone on a plane with a similar number of phones, using a nodded version of Android programmed to blast their radios at maximum power. Since this has not happened, I'm assuming it is impossible to crash a plane via EMF interference.
 
2012-12-07 04:59:18 PM  
Also, they need to at least allow eInk Kindles. With the radio off, those things don't use enough power to be capable of outputting any interference that won't get inverse squared into nothingness by the time it leaves the little personal bubble around you.
 
2012-12-07 04:59:31 PM  
Good points RTFA, the last time this thread came about, there were too many people saying, "just obey the rules and STFU".

If I was more of a shiat disturber, I'd get one of these, leave it in the ON position, then see if a zero tolerant sky waitress would make me turn it to the OFF position.

3thingsneeded.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-07 05:04:09 PM  
tolerant = tolerance

/and for the record, if I was told to turn it off, I'd very likely become belligerent and get myself onto the 'no fly' list, that's why I won't do it.
 
2012-12-07 05:55:41 PM  

JoeyJoJo: If there was a 0.00000000001% chance of an iPhone taking out an airplane, does ANYONE think they'd be allowed within 100' of an airplane?


Since
There are people who WANT the plane to crash

If there was any chance that you could fark with the plane they would be leaving their stuff on on purpose.

And all electronics would be taken away at security
 
2012-12-07 06:12:27 PM  
I am surprised they allow any electronic devises on an aircraft, but then, terrorists don't need the devise 'turned on' for the built in bomb to go boom...
Just sayin, it is a mind fark and it really doesn't matter. If someone wants to bring down an aircraft, a package the size of a pack of cigarettes is all the explosives you need in an overhead compartment. The trigger and detonator could be the size of an earpiece for an MP3 player.
I would be happier if people were using their toys rather than having them turned off and 'safe'...
 
2012-12-07 06:13:19 PM  
Meanwhile, American Airlines pilots use iPads as their electronic flight bag and is operational during all phases of flight. But my eInk Kindle and noise cancelling headphones are going to interfere?
 
2012-12-07 06:20:49 PM  
" He says that "mobile devices are increasingly interwoven in our daily lives. They empower people to stay informed and connected with friends and family, and they enable both large and small businesses to be more productive and efficient, helping drive economic growth and boost U.S. competitiveness."

You know what else is interwoven in our daily lives? Living. As in, not dying because the freakin plane fell out of the sky because some idiot couldn't wait to get home to play Angry Birds.
 
2012-12-07 06:26:19 PM  
As a pilot that flies smaller aircraft than a 777 (but, oh, the electronic kit!) that regularly has people using everything from Nintendo DS, iPads, iPhones, laptops, and so on, when they could reach some if the antennas if they could reach through the metal (or composite) surfaces. As a pilot that has (or had the copilot) used tons of electronics right in front of the fancy glass panel (with the AHRS less than army's length away) all I can say: it's about farking time. I'm sick of the people that have "stories" of this or that with no real evidence to back them up. That includes a couple of NTSB reports where the people at the agency said "f*ck we can't find anything else to blame so let's guess."

Heck, I've never had a problem even with the older Bendix/King / ARC / MAC / Apollo / Garmin gear. Yes, I've flown lots of different planes.
 
2012-12-07 08:26:24 PM  
Shiz... I use a dang iPad as a kneeboard on occasion. As in, it is literally strapped to my leg, on, and used during the duration of my flight.

Let the passengers use em already. The only sorts of electronics that can truly disturb anything would need to emit MASSIVE magnetic or MASSIVE EM / radio freqs. I would be more worried about some smuggled C4 than that.

/ pilot
 
2012-12-07 09:20:32 PM  
Skeptoid.com - Cell Phones on Airplanes
Cell phones are perfectly safe on airplanes. So why can't we use them?

tl'dr podcast link.

And yes it even debunks the myth-busters episode about this.

I love Mythbusters and it's my whole family's favorite show, but with their episode on the cell phone ban aboard aircraft, they did a disservice to those of us who hope to get this groundless ban dropped. In case you missed it, they did a test and concluded that cell phones can potentially interfere with an aircraft's navigation system. The only instrument they tested was a radio direction finder called a VOR, which detects a radio beam coming from a ground station and points its direction. In practice, VOR is on its way out, in favor of GPS. VOR stations are each assigned a unique frequency in the VHF range between 108 MHz and 117.95 MHz, which is right above the FM radio frequency range. By contrast, the lowest frequency used by any US mobile telephones is 700 MHz; and in European mobile telephones, 450 MHz. Since the frequencies are so incredibly different, the whole debate is ended right there, for all practical purposes. Mythbusters used an older VOR receiver that could be tuned to receive a much broader range of frequencies, which is why they were able to detect the mobile phone signal. To be more responsible, they should have admitted that this frequency was wildly different than what any aircraft might possibly tune to. As it was, they left viewers with an inaccurate, and alarmist, impression. Mythbusters called the myth "plausible". No, it's really not plausible; a cell phone cannot affect an aircraft's navigation instruments in the real world, and we'll have more on that in a moment. Maybe if you threw a cell phone really hard at the GPS, you could break something.
 
2012-12-07 09:59:50 PM  

Raharu:
Cell phones are perfectly safe on airplanes. So why can't we use them?


I hear that it has to do with line of sight. I can't confirm this is true, but I've heard it said that since a whole bunch of towers will be in line of sight and essentially the same distance, using cell phones indiscriminately will overwhelm the networks on the ground. I've seen people talk on cell phones in airplanes, and everyone knows that texting in flight is rampant. No reported problems. Obviously if phone use is permitted, there will be 100 idiots pretending to be CEOs for the duration of the flight and murder rates will skyrocket.

Mythbusters called the myth "plausible". No, it's really not plausible; a cell phone cannot affect an aircraft's navigation instruments in the real world, and we'll have more on that in a moment. Maybe if you threw a cell phone really hard at the GPS, you could break something.

IIRC the MB thing was basically a wink and nod "you could never bring down an aircraft with a cell phone, but we're not going to say that so we can't be held liable when an airplane crashes and a cell phone gets blamed."
 
2012-12-07 10:45:21 PM  
they are handing these things out like candy at United Airlines, every Pilot uses them and they even record flights with them
 
2012-12-07 10:45:42 PM  
The only thing I can really think of that might cause a problem is the annoying speaker buzz that your cell phone can cause right before it rings when it is sitting next to your computer speakers. Dunno if it would do that to the radios on a plane (IIRC the radios themselves are mounted elsewhere, only the control unit is in the cockpit), but that would be annoying as hell if you're trying to talk to ATC while approaching a busy airport in bad weather. Like I said, I don't even know if that's possible.

What I do hope is that if devices are allowed during all phases of flight, they at least keep it so you can't be making phone calls. Being crammed into a plane with a bunch of other people is bad enough, I can't imagine the hell a transcon flight would be with every other person on the plane carrying on a phone conversation, which it seems a lot of people can't do with their indoor voice no matter where they are.
 
2012-12-08 12:04:02 AM  

buzzcut73: The only thing I can really think of that might cause a problem is the annoying speaker buzz that your cell phone can cause right before it rings when it is sitting next to your computer speakers. Dunno if it would do that to the radios on a plane (IIRC the radios themselves are mounted elsewhere, only the control unit is in the cockpit), but that would be annoying as hell if you're trying to talk to ATC while approaching a busy airport in bad weather. Like I said, I don't even know if that's possible


That only happens on 2G GSM. CDMA and 3G/4G GSM phones don't have this interference. Granted, an active GSM cell phone is probably go in to be in 2G mode at 30k feet over Kansas, but eventually those older networks will likely be phased out.
 
2012-12-08 02:39:33 AM  

BoxOfBees: Raharu:
Cell phones are perfectly safe on airplanes. So why can't we use them?

I hear that it has to do with line of sight. I can't confirm this is true, but I've heard it said that since a whole bunch of towers will be in line of sight and essentially the same distance, using cell phones indiscriminately will overwhelm the networks on the ground. I've seen people talk on cell phones in airplanes, and everyone knows that texting in flight is rampant. No reported problems. Obviously if phone use is permitted, there will be 100 idiots pretending to be CEOs for the duration of the flight and murder rates will skyrocket.

Mythbusters called the myth "plausible". No, it's really not plausible; a cell phone cannot affect an aircraft's navigation instruments in the real world, and we'll have more on that in a moment. Maybe if you threw a cell phone really hard at the GPS, you could break something.

IIRC the MB thing was basically a wink and nod "you could never bring down an aircraft with a cell phone, but we're not going to say that so we can't be held liable when an airplane crashes and a cell phone gets blamed."


Sort of like when they were given a cease and desist order on studying RFID vulnerability. Fun show but sometimes they already have their answer and set the tests to work.
 
2012-12-08 03:31:41 AM  

Egoy3k: ha-ha-guy: /you should flip your device into airplane mode so the device can turn off antennas and save battery life though

This is the one that gets me on a lot of flights I've been told turn off all devices during takeoff and that phones should stay off during the whole flight. Well shiat at least the phone has a built in antenna off option whereas some tablets or mp3 players may not have such a feature or it's not as easy to access.

The only reasonable justification I have heard is that it makes anyone using an electronic device stand out so somebody using a device that actually could be harmful to the airplane would stick out. Lets face it though anything capable of disrupting avionics wirelessly (if this is even possible)is going to be really big due to power and antenna requirements. I'm not talking Galaxy S3 big more like pickup truck big.


www.jonathansackheim.com
 
2012-12-08 03:24:03 PM  
cegamers.com
 
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