jonny_q: Moderate perpetual growth is possible as long as there are advances. We find more efficient ways to produce crops, so there's more food. We advance technology so that smart phones are commonplace. We have refrigerators with operating systems. These things count as "growth"
vygramul: EVERY economy relies on mass delusion.
Truther: Dems have done/said PLENTY of clown nose stuff over the years...
hdhale: "I like it," said Joseph Gagnon of the Peterson Institute for International Economics. "There's nothing that's obviously economically problematic about it."Must be the Peterson Institute for International Economics for the Mentally Challenged. What a total farkwit.
Lumpmoose: But an asinine problem requires an asinine solution.
Tr0mBoNe: Arbitrary problems have arbitrary solutions.
vygramul: leadmetal: What is in the TFA is functionally the same as printing paper money.semiotix: vygramul: EVERY economy relies on mass delusion.Exactly. And this is why I love economics threads. I can't count how many times I've offered to trade a little bit of inherently precious gold, or a few boxes of shotgun shells, or a pallet of tinned meat, and all I want in return are a few of those worthless scraps of colored paper that the other guy just told me are completely valueless.So far, no takers. In fact, from what I've seen of gold-bugs and other fiat-money-conspiracists, they're probably more likely to stab me in the throat for trying to take their debased, worthless pieces of illegal government scrip (etc. etc.) than anybody else.I'll gladly buy all the gold you want to sell me at $250 (in federal reserve notes) for every ozt. Oddly in every one of these threads nobody wants to sell me gold, the shiny metal they tell me has no intrinsic value at the price I offer in the pieces of paper they tell me I should have more faith in. I don't have any idea why except for the fact that they can get more paper notes from someone else. Which is the only reason you would get turned down, people can get more gold, meat, shells, whatever from someone else.Even if a person believes paper has no real value, a person only has so much of it to trade and he's going to take the best deal to get what he does value from people who think the paper is better.So now you're saying it's exactly the same as fiat currency. Congratulations, you've come a long way.
boom: It is nearly pure farking genius really.
semiotix: Um, fellas, raising the debt ceiling of the federal government 16% will not mean 16% inflation. Nor will paying previously agreed-upon future expenditures any other way, including this way.Either way, the contractors and suppliers and soldiers and government employees and Chinese bondholders who are presently already scheduled to be paid, by act of Congress, will get paid. Mostly in electrons representing dollars, a few of them in actual bills.In Dec. 2009, the debt limit was raised to $12.4T. In Feb. 2010, less than three months later, it was raised to $14.3T. That's an increase of 15%. Did we get 15% inflation in those three months?For that matter, in the 28 years between 1983 and 2011, the debt limit has gone up from $1.4T to $14.7T, an increase of 1,050%. Have we had average annual 8.7% inflation every year since early in the Reagan years? (I.e., do things cost 10.5 times what they did in 1983?)These things are not the same thing. The Federal Reserve controls the money supply. It has other options besides allowing for instantaneous hyperinflation (e.g., raising the discount rate, increasing the reserve requirement, raising the federal funds rate, etc.) It will use them whether this gets done the normal way or the stupid coin way, just like it has for as long as it's been in existence.
Silverstaff: So, what if NASA (or private industry) snared an asteroid for mining purposes? Besides strategic metals like titanium and rare earths, the precious metal content of a large asteroid could be very substantial.
seadoo2006: tricycleracer: shiat like this makes you realize that our economy is one mass delusion.So is the deluded idea that perpetual growth is somehow sustainable ... in fact, we built our ENTIRE economy around the idea of perpetual growth. Which makes total sense, you know, in a finite universe.
seadoo2006: So is the deluded idea that perpetual growth is somehow sustainable ... in fact, we built our ENTIRE economy around the idea of perpetual growth. Which makes total sense, you know, in a finite universe.
tricycleracer: shiat like this makes you realize that our economy is one mass delusion.
dennysgod: Coins? All we need is some new paper money:[2.bp.blogspot.com image 410x224]
Bondith: They should use rhodium. It's currently worth more per mole than the other precious metals.
kombat_unit: This is exactly why the GOP sucks. Government spending like a drunken sailor is the American way.
Holocaust Agnostic: The horror?
Bondith: I was all set to ask if a trillion dollars worth of platinum even existed, then I saw the scheme was one of those worth-by-fiat things.They should use rhodium. It's currently worth more per mole than the other precious metals.
THX 1138: Well that pic I hotlinked lasted an entire 45 seconds. Sigh.
FatherChaos: [cache.ohinternet.com image 442x334]
Holocaust Agnostic: Lumpmoose: Maybe asinine. But an asinine problem requires an asinine solution. We have enough problems without adding arbitrary ones on top, like the invented debt ceiling and its subsequent biannual invented crisis.Under this scenario, the U.S. Mint would make a pair of trillion-dollar platinum coins. The president orders the coins to be deposited at the Federal Reserve.What's the actual physical process for moving the coins from the US Mint to the Federal Reserve? If they're stolen, does the US government just declare them worthless?They wold be fairly easy to prove stolen I imagine.Pawnshop probably couldn't make change.
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