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(Gizmag)   Reason number 3102 that graphene is awesome. If you put it in a cork like structure, it's lighter then air, electrically conductive, flexible, and can hold 50,000 times its own weight   (gizmag.com) divider line 54
    More: Spiffy, Graphene, tissue engineering, scanning electron microscopes, Monash University, structures, toffees, electrical conductivity, deformation  
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5907 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Dec 2012 at 9:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-07 07:14:25 AM  
Ok...if it's lighter than air, shouldn't it float like a helium balloon?
 
2012-12-07 08:24:53 AM  
Building cars out of this stuff would make running people off the road way more fun than it is now.
 
2012-12-07 08:25:30 AM  
This is neat. Why haven't I heard of this before?
 
2012-12-07 08:59:43 AM  

Elvis_Bogart: Ok...if it's lighter than air, shouldn't it float like a helium balloon?


The headline clearly says it's lighter then air.

Clearly it sublimates.
 
2012-12-07 09:41:30 AM  

Elvis_Bogart: Ok...if it's lighter than air, shouldn't it float like a helium balloon?


My guess is that it's only lighter than air if you include the whole volume of the graphene structure. But because the structure is cork like and mostly air it isn't actually any lighter than the same amount of graphene in a sheet.
 
2012-12-07 09:49:05 AM  
Going by the name, one might think this was a porn site.
 
2012-12-07 09:49:49 AM  
If it's lighter than air, doesn't 50,000 x 0 = 0
 
2012-12-07 09:51:49 AM  
Is this what we do now? Just submit incorrect headlines?
 
2012-12-07 09:52:15 AM  

doglover: Elvis_Bogart: Ok...if it's lighter than air, shouldn't it float like a helium balloon?

The headline clearly says it's lighter then air.

Clearly it sublimates.


I laughed.
 
2012-12-07 09:52:57 AM  
Electrically conductive cork? WTF? I don't want to be electrocuted while opening a bottle of my favourite plonk!
 
2012-12-07 09:56:24 AM  
Is this one of those cases where they made a microscopic sample that displayed the hexagonal structure and calculated everthing else or did they actually manage to make a sample you could play with (read: at least as big as a matchbox).

The first case is an interesting advancement in materials science but is not usually followed for decades by the second as they try to figure out how to scale up the process without everthing going ptthtptptthtpttpptpththththptptptppp!
 
2012-12-07 10:00:57 AM  
Lighter than air? I think they need to qualify that statement a bit better....
 
2012-12-07 10:02:54 AM  
FTFA: According to lead researcher Prof. Dan Li, 3D structures assembled from those one-dimensional sheets have tended to be brittle.

Protip: sheets are two-dimensional.

/and that's the plane truth!
 
2012-12-07 10:03:14 AM  
Than =/= then.
 
2012-12-07 10:06:20 AM  
So if you had graphene Lego, how high can you stack them?
 
2012-12-07 10:07:32 AM  

Mr_Fabulous: FTFA: According to lead researcher Prof. Dan Li, 3D structures assembled from those one-dimensional sheets have tended to be brittle.

Protip: sheets are two-dimensional.

/and that's the plane truth!


Gizmag has teh suck.
 
2012-12-07 10:13:27 AM  

Mr_Fabulous: FTFA: According to lead researcher Prof. Dan Li, 3D structures assembled from those one-dimensional sheets have tended to be brittle.

Protip: sheets are two-dimensional.

/and that's the plane truth!


That joke fell a litle flat.
 
2012-12-07 10:14:16 AM  

tomo12144: If it's lighter than air, doesn't 50,000 x 0 = 0


Lighter than air != weightless
 
2012-12-07 10:15:07 AM  

Fizpez: Is this one of those cases where they made a microscopic sample that displayed the hexagonal structure and calculated everthing else or did they actually manage to make a sample you could play with (read: at least as big as a matchbox).

The first case is an interesting advancement in materials science but is not usually followed for decades by the second as they try to figure out how to scale up the process without everthing going ptthtptptthtpttpptpththththptptptppp!


It is actually pretty big, a 10 mm by 12 mm cylinder. It looks like they could make it pretty large but there are obvious defect on the surface. Here is a video of them compressing it and it bouncing back. (you may need university access).
 
2012-12-07 10:18:02 AM  
Since it's so strong, I'd assume that it won't expand as pressure drops. So it would rise to an altitude where the density of the air matches its own. If that altitude happens to be something like 30,000' and large amounts were released in small chunks, might it pose a threat to aircraft?
 
2012-12-07 10:19:56 AM  
Here is a screencap of the video

dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-12-07 10:25:27 AM  
Yeah, but how is this junk supposed to help me live forever?
 
2012-12-07 10:26:27 AM  

satanorsanta: Fizpez: Is this one of those cases where they made a microscopic sample that displayed the hexagonal structure and calculated everthing else or did they actually manage to make a sample you could play with (read: at least as big as a matchbox).

The first case is an interesting advancement in materials science but is not usually followed for decades by the second as they try to figure out how to scale up the process without everthing going ptthtptptthtpttpptpththththptptptppp!

It is actually pretty big, a 10 mm by 12 mm cylinder. It looks like they could make it pretty large but there are obvious defect on the surface. Here is a video of them compressing it and it bouncing back. (you may need university access).


Pretty interesting - thanks for the link!
 
2012-12-07 10:33:02 AM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Elvis_Bogart: Ok...if it's lighter than air, shouldn't it float like a helium balloon?

My guess is that it's only lighter than air if you include the whole volume of the graphene structure. But because the structure is cork like and mostly air it isn't actually any lighter than the same amount of graphene in a sheet.


What if you pumped the air out of the cork's environment, or built the cork in a vacuum in the first place, and then coated it with an airtight seal?
 
2012-12-07 10:44:58 AM  

chionophile: tomo12144: If it's lighter than air, doesn't 50,000 x 0 = 0

Lighter than air != weightless


This. Lighter than air just means that if you put the cork in a bag, then filled another bag with some mass of air with the same volume as the cork (and the same pressure as the air around it), the bag of air would weigh more.

That's why I asked about the vacuum and the airtight seal. If we assume that the cork is porous enough that air can get in, then you have to add the weight of the air in the cork to the weight of the graphene in the cork, and that might wind up weighing more than a bag of air at the same volume and pressure. But if you can keep air from getting into the cork, then there's no "air weight" to add, and that might make the cork lighter. You'd have to worry about the weight of the seal, but if the cork is very big then the seal might not weigh much by comparison: perhaps little enough that the total mass is still lighter than air.

Or am I just writing the next Troll Physics comic? I haven't mentioned magnets yet, so I think I'm safe.
 
2012-12-07 10:46:39 AM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: This is neat. Why haven't I heard of this before?


I read about this a couple years ago, probably from a Fark link. Thought it was cool as hell. Evidently, so did other people because about a week later it was announced that it had won the Nobel prize in physics. Link

They could use this stuff to make the "space elevator", as well as crap we can't even imagine.
 
2012-12-07 10:55:49 AM  
Why not make tubes of the stuff, then take those tubes and form buckyballs or weave
the filaments of it into larger, more thick sheets? Sort of knit them together into large and
thicker constructions. It seems like they are thinking almost too small..If they want to build things from it, beyond micro-conductors.
 
2012-12-07 10:58:02 AM  
So where are our floating graphene cars?
 
2012-12-07 11:00:49 AM  
that may be cool.. but that link on the side about the producing electricity from living growing plants is pretty damn awesome
 
2012-12-07 11:12:58 AM  
You're not fooling me, Subby. Something lighter than air is effectively weightless. How can it hold 50,000 times its weight? You can't divide by zero, idiot.
 
2012-12-07 11:18:46 AM  

Millennium: chionophile: tomo12144: If it's lighter than air, doesn't 50,000 x 0 = 0

Lighter than air != weightless

This. Lighter than air just means that if you put the cork in a bag, then filled another bag with some mass of air with the same volume as the cork (and the same pressure as the air around it), the bag of air would weigh more.

That's why I asked about the vacuum and the airtight seal. If we assume that the cork is porous enough that air can get in, then you have to add the weight of the air in the cork to the weight of the graphene in the cork, and that might wind up weighing more than a bag of air at the same volume and pressure. But if you can keep air from getting into the cork, then there's no "air weight" to add, and that might make the cork lighter. You'd have to worry about the weight of the seal, but if the cork is very big then the seal might not weigh much by comparison: perhaps little enough that the total mass is still lighter than air.

Or am I just writing the next Troll Physics comic? I haven't mentioned magnets yet, so I think I'm safe.


Problem: the airtight seal would have to be pretty damn strong, because if you've got a vacuum inside and nothing outside, the atmosphere is gonna want to crush the shiat out of that structure.
 
2012-12-07 11:30:01 AM  

paswa17: You're not fooling me, Subby. Something lighter than air is effectively weightless. How can it hold 50,000 times its weight? You can't divide by zero, idiot.



[not_sure_if_serious.jpg]
 
Q: what's a henway?

btw, weight!=mass
 
2012-12-07 11:36:15 AM  
Yeah, I'm betting that the mechanical strength is not enough to resist atmospheric pressure. On the other hand, if it's enough lighter than air, you could just suffuse it with hydrogen or helium at atmospheric pressure, and do something to seal the surface. (Hydrogen would probably be easier to keep in.) It's the ultimate minimalist fire balloon -- just light a chunk and let go!

I wonder how electrically conductive it is? If it's that low-density, it should be a pretty good thermal insulator. Thermal insulators that are electrically conductive are kind of hard to come by.
 
2012-12-07 11:50:59 AM  

tomo12144: If it's lighter than air, doesn't 50,000 x 0 = 0


At a typical temperature and pressure (i.e.,15 C and 1013 hPa), the density of dry air is ~1.225 kg/m3. In other words, in "American" units, each cubic foot of dry air weighs about 0.08 pounds.

/ TMYK
 
2012-12-07 12:04:25 PM  

FloydA: Than =/= then.


‶=/=" ≠ ‶≠.
 
2012-12-07 12:41:09 PM  

jfarkinB: Yeah, I'm betting that the mechanical strength is not enough to resist atmospheric pressure. On the other hand, if it's enough lighter than air, you could just suffuse it with hydrogen or helium at atmospheric pressure, and do something to seal the surface. (Hydrogen would probably be easier to keep in.) It's the ultimate minimalist fire balloon -- just light a chunk and let go!

I wonder how electrically conductive it is? If it's that low-density, it should be a pretty good thermal insulator. Thermal insulators that are electrically conductive are kind of hard to come by.


Leave helium alone.

Think of the balloons.
 
2012-12-07 01:27:05 PM  

satanorsanta: Fizpez: Is this one of those cases where they made a microscopic sample that displayed the hexagonal structure and calculated everthing else or did they actually manage to make a sample you could play with (read: at least as big as a matchbox).

The first case is an interesting advancement in materials science but is not usually followed for decades by the second as they try to figure out how to scale up the process without everthing going ptthtptptthtpttpptpththththptptptppp!

It is actually pretty big, a 10 mm by 12 mm cylinder. It looks like they could make it pretty large but there are obvious defect on the surface. Here is a video of them compressing it and it bouncing back. (you may need university access).


That was very cool. I don't know why, but the repeated squishing and the noise the thing emitted as it bounced back made me laugh.
 
2012-12-07 02:52:45 PM  
Then air what? What did the air do?
 
2012-12-07 03:17:53 PM  
Has anyone mentioned subby made an error by saying graphene can be made lighter then air? It should be lighter than air. Anyone mention that yet? Huh?
 
2012-12-07 03:45:57 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: It seems to be easily crushable, so... this doesn't look like it could be used as a structural material... beyond the novel features like electrical conductivity and thermal insulation and resistance to permanent deformation... what could it be used for?


Steel is easily deformable (relative to it's strength) too, that's why engineers like it so much. Not shattering without warning is a desirable property.
 
2012-12-07 03:50:12 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: It seems to be easily crushable, so... this doesn't look like it could be used as a structural material... beyond the novel features like electrical conductivity and thermal insulation and resistance to permanent deformation... what could it be used for?


1) Construct pool noodle
2) Insert length of PVC pipe through pool noodle, leaving space for a handle (PROTIP: use magnets for faster insertion)
3) Invent backpack-mounted gas-powered Van de Graaf generator
4) Connect generator to graphene and start generator.
5) NERF TASER SWORD
 
2012-12-07 04:33:04 PM  

Browncoat: Has anyone mentioned subby made an error by saying graphene can be made lighter then air? It should be lighter than air. Anyone mention that yet? Huh?


Calm down subby. We all make mistakes

/I keed
 
2012-12-07 04:52:26 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: It seems to be easily crushable, so... this doesn't look like it could be used as a structural material... beyond the novel features like electrical conductivity and thermal insulation and resistance to permanent deformation... what could it be used for?


Zeppelins. Giant, cargo-carrying, transcontinental zeppelins. Lighter than air, electroconductive, used in solar power generation, and supports 50,000 times its own weight? You could pick up South Dakota and haul it to Okinawa for nickels.
 
2012-12-07 05:35:43 PM  

phyrkrakr: You could pick up South Dakota and haul it to Okinawa for nickels.


Could you fire a pound of bacon into the asteroid belt?
 
2012-12-07 05:51:55 PM  

WxGuy1: tomo12144: If it's lighter than air, doesn't 50,000 x 0 = 0

At a typical temperature and pressure (i.e.,15 C and 1013 hPa), the density of dry air is ~1.225 kg/m3. In other words, in "American" units, each cubic foot of dry air weighs about 0.08 pounds a bit over one and a quarter ounces.


FTFY, ya commie
 
2012-12-07 06:05:53 PM  
I would like a list of the other 3101 reasons why graphene is awesome.

/impressive stuff
 
2012-12-07 07:14:55 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: It seems to be easily crushable, so... this doesn't look like it could be used as a structural material... beyond the novel features like electrical conductivity and thermal insulation and resistance to permanent deformation... what could it be used for?


Artificial organs.
 
2012-12-08 08:07:44 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Yeah, but how is this junk supposed to help me live forever?


It doesn't help anything else... Unless you think we're two weeks away from a replicator now? Or magical rocket belts for everyone? Or a fantasy shield against species-destroying asteroids? Oh do tell me what you think, your "thought" processes are very valuable to me!

HindiDiscoMonster: Egoy3k: HindiDiscoMonster: It seems to be easily crushable, so... this doesn't look like it could be used as a structural material... beyond the novel features like electrical conductivity and thermal insulation and resistance to permanent deformation... what could it be used for?

Steel is easily deformable (relative to it's strength) too, that's why engineers like it so much. Not shattering without warning is a desirable property.

oh I get that... I just mean it seems that this substance is quickly becoming the holy grail of materials science, and I have read (probably on phys.org) that it is super strong just like carbon fiber... but even when making something out of carbon fiber they typically use fiberglass as a backing for structure... which leads me to... if it is so strong, then why can't it hold structure without some kind of backing material... seems kind of odd to me unless there is something I am just not getting about the "strength" of this material.


Because most of these press releases are 100% hype, like a real estate listing. You have to learn to read between the between lines. Or even deeper.

You are not going to see a graphene 747 next week, or even next century. You'd be surprised to see how old materials are... WWII really spurred things along, and in the 1960s there were already carbon fiber fan blades for jet engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_RB211

Of course, they didn't work then, and since they still don't work today, we must assume there's more to materials science than just "strength".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracture_toughness

This is why we still use nasty old metal these days. And all these breathless press releases about negative mass 3D printed metamaterials are just borderline junk science.  But the Space Nutters eat it up like filet mignon.

Ten years ago there were carbon fiber bike wheels and Zylon spokes everywhere. Now go to a bike shop and we're all back to metal spokes.

Turns out if you optimize materials for one thing like tensile strength, you also lose out on things like resilience and malleability. People bought wheels that were basically time bombs. A carbon fiber wheel usually says to not use it if it's scratched. Wow, that's some magical Star Trek stuff right there.

Same goes for the Zylon spokes. I have Spinergy wheels and they *are* fantastic but you rarely see them anymore. The spokes MUST be adjusted the correct way or they break and are weaker than overcooked spaghetti.

Of course no one heeded the warnings and wheels failed at high speed, usually while cornering.

Oh boy, the future isn't like they promised us in all those "The World Tomorrow" videos, eh?

In the meantime, we are living longer and longer, causing all kinds of social problems because we stubbornly refuse to look at reality head on. Let's all live in a sci-fi fantasy fueled by press releases and truly awful sci-fi.
 
2012-12-08 08:54:17 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Oh do tell me what you think, your "thought" processes are very valuable to me!


I think this is a little too easy. One of these times I'm gonna throw you into a two-page froth with a mere punctuation mark, I swear. It's fun to watch you gnash your teeth and flail like a toddler having a tantrum, but I worry it's giving you gray hairs.
 
2012-12-08 03:26:42 PM  
I think subby meant that first it's lighter, then it's air.
 
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