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(Glenn Beck)   Penn Jillette performs his greatest trick: getting Glenn Beck to argue that the government should not prevent homosexuals from getting married   (glennbeck.com) divider line 136
    More: Amusing, Penn Jillette, mergers, drug legalization, moral absolutism, voting block, gays and lesbians, big tent  
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6317 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Dec 2012 at 7:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-07 06:44:20 AM
I don't think Glenn Beck has ever cared much one way or the other on the issue. If it's not complaining about Obama turning the country in to a socialist OLIGARHY, he doesn't usually bother.
 
2012-12-07 07:07:23 AM
no way I'm gonna that link.
 
2012-12-07 07:08:21 AM
crap. I accidentally the click. need coffee
 
2012-12-07 07:09:01 AM
OLIGARHY
/oligarhy
//... got nuthin'
 
2012-12-07 07:09:21 AM

kradio: no way I'm gonna that link.


Me neither. I'll just assume Jillette was awesome and Beck ended up looking like an ass.
 
2012-12-07 07:11:31 AM
i1162.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-07 07:12:09 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if these guys were good friends.

/They probably aren't
//No one should be friends with either
\\\they be witches
 
Qel
2012-12-07 07:13:26 AM
Glenn Beck was actually quite reasonable. (Broken clock..... right twice a day.......)
 
2012-12-07 07:13:33 AM
They're illusions. Tricks are what girls in 1990 did for money.
 
2012-12-07 07:19:05 AM

Muta: kradio: no way I'm gonna that link.

Me neither. I'll just assume Jillette was awesome and Beck ended up looking like an ass.


That's what I'm hoping at least.
 
2012-12-07 07:27:26 AM
1) tricking people into agreeing with your position is not cool, and can be used by others to get you to agree with a position you have strong feelings against
2) as mentioned above, and like George W Bush, Glen Beck might not actually a fk about gay marriage. If it happens, it happens. He gets money from crusaders, but he is not a crusader himself.

all in all, if the exchange is indeed like how submitter put it: not cool. debate needs to be honest, not 'gotcha'.
 
2012-12-07 07:30:26 AM
Do either of them really believe what they say, or is it just part of the act?
 
2012-12-07 07:30:27 AM

Qel: Glenn Beck was actually quite reasonable. (Broken clock..... right twice a day.......)


well, again, people can take money from crusaders without believing everything the crusaders believe. romney tried to ride an extreme version of that into the presidency.
 
2012-12-07 07:33:01 AM

skipjack: I wouldn't be surprised if these guys were good friends.

/They probably aren't
//No one should be friends with either
\\\they be witches


Beck says they're friends. He says he loved Penn and Teller's show where they discuss freedom and agrees with him on a great many things. They disagree heavily on religion naturally.
 
2012-12-07 07:37:25 AM
I missed the trick. It looked like Beck just stated his position on gay marriage. Amazing.
 
2012-12-07 07:37:43 AM
He said that as long as the government doesn't come into his church and say he or his church (or any church) need to change their belief system and their practices, he doesn't care. But right now, people of faith who may not want gay marriage in their church are being shut out of the conversation by activists and progressives.

That's a nice solid strawman Glenn built there. Sure, sure - he'll support gay marriage. Just as soon as you manage to convince him that the gays don't want the government to force the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City to perform gay mariages complete with consummation right on the altar.
 
2012-12-07 07:38:53 AM

Karac: He said that as long as the government doesn't come into his church and say he or his church (or any church) need to change their belief system and their practices, he doesn't care. But right now, people of faith who may not want gay marriage in their church are being shut out of the conversation by activists and progressives.

That's a nice solid strawman Glenn built there. Sure, sure - he'll support gay marriage. Just as soon as you manage to convince him that the gays don't want the government to force the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City to perform gay mariages complete with consummation right on the altar.


That's not a strawman, that's truth.
 
2012-12-07 07:41:53 AM
This sorta highlights what I don't get. I know so many Republicans that are "small government & low regulation, libertarianish" types, who are ALSO social conservative "regulate everyone's bedroom habits and naughty bits" types. Those two philosophies are pretty much directly at odds with each other.
 
2012-12-07 07:42:02 AM

Karac: He said that as long as the government doesn't come into his church and say he or his church (or any church) need to change their belief system and their practices, he doesn't care. But right now, people of faith who may not want gay marriage in their church are being shut out of the conversation by activists and progressives.


Maybe I'm confused, is anyone saying the government needs to force gay marriage into churches?

I thought the whole idea behind it was that they get federally recognized as being married. There doesn't need to be anything religious about that. If churches want to accept it that's fine if not, that's fine too.

(Although they should really leave people who don't share their beliefs alone too)
 
2012-12-07 07:45:20 AM
"The question is not whether gay people should be married or not, the question is why is the government involved in our marriage, Glenn said.

That's an entirely reasonable position. Defining "marriage" is not something the government should be doing. Marriage is a religious institution, and every church should decide what constitutes a marriage within their congregation. All unions should be civil unions in the eye of the state and laws.

This issue should be a no-brainer for Libertarians. What Beck fails to say is that most "libertarians" are just religious conservatives that think, oh hell yes, the government needs to define marriage because of...Jesus.
 
2012-12-07 07:50:46 AM
I'm an ordained minister, and if gay marriage were legal in Oregon (I wish it were, actually), I as a Minister still have the choice of which couples I choose to wed. So if I were to disagree with gay marriage on religious grounds (I don't, but that's not the point), I could decline to officiate at a gay couple's wedding.

The point being, gay marriage has nothing to do with religion. Nothing. If homosexuals were allowed to marry, they still have to find someone to officiate over the wedding, and I expect most Christian churches won't choose to assist them, on religious grounds. There might be some gay couples who try to sue to force the issue, but that would fail on 1st Amendment grounds.

In the end, that just means there will be more work for those of us who would be happy to help anyone - be they gay or straight - in joining in wedded bliss.
 
2012-12-07 07:52:25 AM
Gay marriage --> wedding rings --> gold bands --> demand for gold goes up --> Moar Money for Glenn Beck

He's playing chess, while all you trolls are playing tick-tac-toe
 
2012-12-07 07:53:16 AM

Close2TheEdge: "The question is not whether gay people should be married or not, the question is why is the government involved in our marriage, Glenn said.

That's an entirely reasonable position. Defining "marriage" is not something the government should be doing. Marriage is a religious institution, and every church should decide what constitutes a marriage within their congregation. All unions should be civil unions in the eye of the state and laws.

This issue should be a no-brainer for Libertarians. What Beck fails to say is that most "libertarians" are just religious conservatives that think, oh hell yes, the government needs to define marriage because of...Jesus.


Per this Gallup poll that was Farked yesterday, something over 90% of the people who oppose marriage equality do so because Jesus said so. Pretty awful.
 
2012-12-07 07:53:26 AM

Muta: kradio: no way I'm gonna that link.

Me neither. I'll just assume Jillette was awesome and Beck ended up looking like an ass.


Jillette is *the* prototypical Fark Independant. He's someone with the capacity to thing through issues about half way and then grab on to simplistic ideologies and hang on to them with an iron grip.

The biggest difference is that instead if "both sides are bad, so vote Republican" you get "both sides are bad so don't vote".

/See also: Trey Parker/Matt Stone
 
2012-12-07 07:58:13 AM
I find myself thinking Beck to be reasonable and well-spoken in this conversation (I have always thought such of Jillette), instead of the insane, froth-speckled pundit I have ever before seen.. I must have suffered recent cranial trauma involving short-term amnesia and/or a dimensional shift that may or may not have involved an experimental dose of weaponized LDS... 'Bout time fer this drunken night-shift worker to consider going to bed..
 
2012-12-07 07:59:16 AM
However, did Glenn Beck also say that married gay people should have the same rights and privileges (spousal rights) that straight married people do?
 
2012-12-07 07:59:32 AM
The Tea Partiers aren't interested in social issues either, you know.
 
2012-12-07 08:02:01 AM

CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: experimental dose of weaponized LDS...


LSD..!

I fall back upon the "drunken" and "need to consider sleep" defenses, Your Honor...
 
2012-12-07 08:03:27 AM

CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: I find myself thinking Beck to be reasonable and well-spoken in this conversation (I have always thought such of Jillette), instead of the insane, froth-speckled pundit I have ever before seen.. I must have suffered recent cranial trauma involving short-term amnesia and/or a dimensional shift that may or may not have involved an experimental dose of weaponized LDS... 'Bout time fer this drunken night-shift worker to consider going to bed..


When Glenn Beck isn't IRL trolling, which he does 99.9% of the time now, he can be entirely reasonable. Back when he did the drive time show in Tampa, he was great radio because he didn't take himself too seriously, was reasonable most of the time, and every so often would pick something completely off the wall and troll the heck out of the listeners who tuned in late and weren't in on the bit. I think he realized that being reasonable wasn't making for good television on CNN and just decided that if 24/7 trolling was what Fox wanted, 24/7 trolling was what they were going to get.
 
2012-12-07 08:04:37 AM
Yay I get to bust out my old name!

The worst part is the cop out 'government shouldn't be involved in marriage.' I mean c'mon....
 
2012-12-07 08:04:38 AM

Tax Boy: Gay marriage --> wedding rings --> gold bands --> demand for gold goes up --> Moar Money for Glenn Beck

He's playing chess, while all you trolls are playing tick-tac-toe


So if I get three pawns in a row I win? Awesome!!
 
2012-12-07 08:05:06 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
all in all, if the exchange is indeed like how submitter put it: not cool. debate needs to be honest, not 'gotcha'.


That makes no sense. Any time you say anything to anyone in anyway that causes them pause is a 'gotcha'... What is uncool is people who think debates are competitions where one side or the other 'wins'. If you do not change minds, or at lease cause serious reflection then you have failed now matter how much the audience cheers or how impressed the judges are. Real change happens when thinking changes... and all changes in thinking are 'gotcha' moments.
 
2012-12-07 08:05:44 AM
Small potatoes. If Penn wanted to impress me, he'd trick Glenn into finally telling the truth about what (allegedly) happened to that girl in 1990.
 
2012-12-07 08:07:13 AM

WinoRhino: However, did Glenn Beck also say that married gay people should have the same rights and privileges (spousal rights) that straight married people do?


Pretty much. He wants government out of marriage. Okay, were that to happen, the churches decide who gets married and who doesn't. We already know what the churches would do, more or less...
 
2012-12-07 08:07:20 AM

CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: I find myself thinking Beck to be reasonable and well-spoken in this conversation (I have always thought such of Jillette), instead of the insane, froth-speckled pundit I have ever before seen.. I must have suffered recent cranial trauma involving short-term amnesia and/or a dimensional shift that may or may not have involved an experimental dose of weaponized LDS... 'Bout time fer this drunken night-shift worker to consider going to bed..


Beck does this, it is his schtick. He can be perfectly reasonable, and even seem normal on occasion. But when he's looking to pander to his base, his Nutjob persona gets trotted out, along with many salty tears.

You see, Beck is whatever he chooses to be. He's an entertainer first and foremost, and will wear whatever mask he feels makes him most acceptable to this audience at the time. In this particular case, he was wearing "Libertarian - Reasonable".
 
2012-12-07 08:07:22 AM

Close2TheEdge: That's an entirely reasonable position. Defining "marriage" is not something the government should be doing. Marriage is a religious institution, and every church should decide what constitutes a marriage within their congregation. All unions should be civil unions in the eye of the state and laws.


Actually, that is incorrect.

Marriage is a legal institution, which determines things like property rights, parental rights, legal and tax issues and rights.

Marriage is the way two people who have no close blood relationship become legally related to each other.

In the middle ages, power resided in the church, so they wanted a say in marriage and got it. Now, power rests in the hands of secular governments, so churches don't have to have any say in the matter.
 
2012-12-07 08:09:09 AM

CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: experimental dose of weaponized LDS...

LSD..!

I fall back upon the "drunken" and "need to consider sleep" defenses, Your Honor...

 
 
 
I figured you intended the "LDS" for the play on words (well, letters anyway) between acid and Glen Beck's religion.  I was all ready to do the golfclap.gif
 
2012-12-07 08:09:10 AM

MmmmBacon: I'm an ordained minister Christian Doctor, and if gay marriage abortion were legal in Oregon (I wish it were, actually), I as a Minister Doctor still have the choice of which couples patients I choose to wed see. So if I were to disagree with gay marriage patient on religious grounds (I don't, but that's not the point), I could decline to officiate at a gay couple's wedding perform an abortion.

 

Isn't this the same argument the catholic church is making re: Obamacare?
 
2012-12-07 08:10:12 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: 1) tricking people into agreeing with your position is not cool, and can be used by others to get you to agree with a position you have strong feelings against
2) as mentioned above, and like George W Bush, Glen Beck might not actually a fk about gay marriage. If it happens, it happens. He gets money from crusaders, but he is not a crusader himself.

all in all, if the exchange is indeed like how submitter put it: not cool. debate needs to be honest, not 'gotcha'.


Oh come on now. Probably the biggest "gotcha" moment in politics that I can think of is when Bill Maher got Senator Mark Pryor to say "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the Senate, though," and I laughed my goddamn ass off when he said that.
 
2012-12-07 08:10:28 AM
Becks notoriety isn't from his opposition in general to fairly basic differences.

It's from being a total nutcase conspiracy theorist who got a platform and ratcheted it up to 11.
 
2012-12-07 08:11:49 AM

maddogdelta: In the middle ages, power resided in the church, so they wanted a say in marriage and got it. Now, power rests in the hands of secular governments, so churches don't have to have any say in the matter.


Unfortunately they still do...which is why we are stuck where we are at the moment.
 
2012-12-07 08:14:26 AM

exparrot: MmmmBacon: I'm an ordained minister Christian Doctor, and if gay marriage abortion were legal in Oregon (I wish it were, actually), I as a Minister Doctor still have the choice of which couples patients I choose to wed see. So if I were to disagree with gay marriage patient on religious grounds (I don't, but that's not the point), I could decline to officiate at a gay couple's wedding perform an abortion.
 

Isn't this the same argument the catholic church is making re: Obamacare?


The 1st Amendment is a powerful thing, indeed. Good thing the Catholic Church isn't the only group that has doctors that provide women's health services, huh?
 
2012-12-07 08:16:24 AM

Elsinore: I figured you intended the "LDS" for the play on words (well, letters anyway) between acid and Glen Beck's religion.  I was all ready to do the golfclap.gif


I won't take kudos I don't deserve.. I wish it had been planned, but I'm just not that witty.. ;)
 
2012-12-07 08:17:34 AM

maddogdelta: Marriage is a legal institution, which determines things like property rights, parental rights, legal and tax issues and rights.


at least skimming the derparticle, the guy who says the government should have no role in marriage...had a state marriage for exactly these reasons.


"That's the huge insult to churches, it's a huge insult to gays, it's a huge insult to love," Penn said. He explained that he was against all marriage because he did not want the state involved in his relationship and his family. He was married at a drive-through in Vegas for $300 only to make sure that he could maintain custody of his children if something tragic were to happen to his wife.

"There is no point, except for the reason I did it" - this actually passes as a thought process to some people.
 
2012-12-07 08:19:37 AM
How was this a trick?
 
2012-12-07 08:20:48 AM

CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: I find myself thinking Beck to be reasonable and well-spoken in this conversation (I have always thought such of Jillette), instead of the insane, froth-speckled pundit I have ever before seen.. I must have suffered recent cranial trauma involving short-term amnesia and/or a dimensional shift that may or may not have involved an experimental dose of weaponized LDS... 'Bout time fer this drunken night-shift worker to consider going to bed..

makesureministries.com

Were you into the free speech movement at Berkeley?
 
2012-12-07 08:21:00 AM

Elsinore: CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: experimental dose of weaponized LDS...

LSD..!

I fall back upon the "drunken" and "need to consider sleep" defenses, Your Honor...
 
 
 
I figured you intended the "LDS" for the play on words (well, letters anyway) between acid and Glen Beck's religion.  I was all ready to do the golfclap.gif


He's harmless. Back in the sixties, he was part of the free speech movement at Berkeley. I think he did a little too much LDS.
 
2012-12-07 08:21:56 AM
rynthetyn
MmmmBacon


Thanks.. I'd always felt such (as well as with others of his 'profession'), but never have I seen him present such a contradictory presence, compared to his usual public face..
 
2012-12-07 08:22:33 AM

jojostan: CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: I find myself thinking Beck to be reasonable and well-spoken in this conversation (I have always thought such of Jillette), instead of the insane, froth-speckled pundit I have ever before seen.. I must have suffered recent cranial trauma involving short-term amnesia and/or a dimensional shift that may or may not have involved an experimental dose of weaponized LDS... 'Bout time fer this drunken night-shift worker to consider going to bed..
[makesureministries.com image 849x357]

Were you into the free speech movement at Berkeley?


I believe it's time for a colorful metaphor.
 
2012-12-07 08:29:45 AM
"The agenda is to shut down my freedom of speech and my belief in - what you don't believe in but I do deeply - The Bible. So I'm going to live my life the way I believe. That's freedom of conscience," Glenn said.

This sentence negates everything else he said. "I'm going to live my life the way I believe" AND make sure everyone else has to do the same. Glenn, your freedom of speech does not include forcing your religious beliefs on everyone else.
 
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