Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SeattlePI)   Windows 8: A Christmas gift for someone you hate   (seattlepi.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, A Christmas Gift  
•       •       •

5382 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Dec 2012 at 12:00 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



213 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-12-07 12:06:07 AM  
What is the best feature of iOS on the iPad? A permanent hardware Home button. It isn't as convenient as going "Back" on Android

If Back worked consistently, that might be true. But it doesn't: I Never Have Any Idea What The Back Button Will Do
 
2012-12-07 12:07:40 AM  
It's not that bad. Seriously.

It's windows 7 (NT 6.2) with a rotten UI. Add Start8 and Bob's your uncle.

/ Seriously
/ Vista = 6.0, Win 7 = 6.1, Win 8 = 6.2
 
2012-12-07 12:07:55 AM  
I hate Windows 8. I've never used it myself, but I've read enough online reviews to know I should hate it.
 
2012-12-07 12:15:56 AM  

JosephFinn: What is the best feature of iOS on the iPad? A permanent hardware Home button. It isn't as convenient as going "Back" on Android

If Back worked consistently, that might be true. But it doesn't: I Never Have Any Idea What The Back Button Will Do


Back button sucks hard.

Aint nothing else to say bout that
 
2012-12-07 12:17:19 AM  
A buddy of mine installed it and let me have a look. Their UI changes don't make sense. It's a muddle of an interface. And getting rid of the Start button was just silly. He was a bit harsh in his assessment - "worst Microsoft OS since Bob" - but then I haven't lived with it for as long.
 
2012-12-07 12:17:50 AM  
The problem with Windows 8, and the Surface "tablet" is that Microsoft see's the Ipad/Nexus 7 and was like "I need to get in on that" but is still focused on making a PC. The end result is a tablet that isn't really a tablet, and a version of Windows that tries to be two different things at the same damn time. Fail.
 
2012-12-07 12:19:44 AM  

cman: JosephFinn: What is the best feature of iOS on the iPad? A permanent hardware Home button. It isn't as convenient as going "Back" on Android

If Back worked consistently, that might be true. But it doesn't: I Never Have Any Idea What The Back Button Will Do

Back button sucks hard.

Aint nothing else to say bout that


I have never had a problem with the back button and my phone is running Gingerbread.
 
2012-12-07 12:20:17 AM  
Greenspun opined, adding: "The only device that I can remember being as confused by is the BlackBerry PlayBook."

As a long-time techie and professional IT geek, I was totally on-board with his message, until that line... what was confusing about the Playbook's UI?

I used to write my own DOS boot scripts as a kid, I spent years on NT4, I currently work with enterprise AD domains, I've tested, performed and supported large-scale Windows 7 deployments... and it took me a good 10 minutes to figure out how to shut down Windows 8. And I'm not ashamed to admit that to my geek friends, because they all had the same experience. How freaking sad is that?

How does that compare to the Playbook's UI? I thought it was pretty standard...
 
2012-12-07 12:21:17 AM  

bbfreak: cman: JosephFinn: What is the best feature of iOS on the iPad? A permanent hardware Home button. It isn't as convenient as going "Back" on Android

If Back worked consistently, that might be true. But it doesn't: I Never Have Any Idea What The Back Button Will Do

Back button sucks hard.

Aint nothing else to say bout that

I have never had a problem with the back button and my phone is running Gingerbread.


The problem with the back button is that it has no uniformity. When you press the Home button on the iPad, you know what is going to happen. Pressing the back button is like rolling the dice taking a chance and 1/4th the time it doesnt go where you expect it to go
 
2012-12-07 12:22:23 AM  
I really want Surface to work.
 
2012-12-07 12:30:05 AM  
I'm liking the under-the-hood stuff that's to be found on win8, but the UI is sooooo bad I want nothing to do with it.
 
2012-12-07 12:39:31 AM  
Tablet People Problems
 
2012-12-07 12:42:49 AM  
Windows 8 isn't that bad, I've been using it for months, first with the consumer preview, then the release candidate and finally the full version. I also had a Win7 phone and all of the data that was saved "to the cloud" automatically synced to the PC. Spend a little time using it, watch a couple of the intro videos, and read a few Windows 8 tips. It boots fast, and once on the desktop, it's very similar to Windows 7.
 
2012-12-07 12:44:41 AM  
A friend if mine has a windows 8 phone and loves it (lumia), I'm mixed on it as a desktop os.
 
2012-12-07 12:45:19 AM  
I can't use the Metro interface because I need more than one app opened at a time. I can't use Desktop mode because I have around 60 apps installed and some I don't use often enough to know the name of in order to search for them.

An OS is like a road, it just facilitates cars driving on it. People don't use the road, they use their cars. People don't use computers for the OS, they use them for the apps. As long as the road is drivable, nobody should care about the road. As long as the OS is functional, nobody should care about the OS. Every now and then the road gets paved, but after the paving, it's back to being forgotten about. Every now and then the OS gets updated, and it should go back to being forgotten about. When your road gets paved, you shouldn't have to relearn how to drive on it, just like when your OS gets updated, you shouldn't have to relearn how to use it.

Sure, maybe they added a bike lane so the first two times you take that road it's a surprise, but nothing major. With Windows 8, Microsoft not only changed the color of the stripes, they changed what the stripes mean, which side of the road you drive on, all the colors of the traffic lights, and they randomly make you load your car onto a train and then ride in the caboose for a few miles, before letting you and your car back onto the road.
 
2012-12-07 12:49:38 AM  
Win 8 is an even number. Mathematically it failed before they even started making it. Everything else being equal, it is farking ugly. If I wanted to feel nauseous using a computer I'd put XP back to the default theme and pocket the cash.
 
2012-12-07 12:54:05 AM  
I figured it out in about 15 seconds. Is everyone else retarded? Switching from Metro to desktop is clunky, but it's really not a big deal as there's nothing on the metro side to use yet.

Anyway, it's not the dog that Vista was. Performance (on my hardware at least) is better than 7. Mind you, I wouldn't pay to upgrade from 7 to 8 - you're not getting anything. But, thanks to work, it didn't cost me anything. I'll stick with 8. With Vista, I tried it for a few weeks, said, "Aw, hell naw" and went back to XP.

And yet, I bought my kid a Nexus 7 for xmas. There is no 7" Windows tablet, and I certainly wouldn't pay anything extra for it. Also, that Nexus 7 is pretty damn sweet.
 
2012-12-07 12:55:29 AM  
The only reason I'll use 8 is because I have a Technet subscription and a beast of a computer at home to run it on VirtualBox.
 
2012-12-07 01:01:05 AM  
I've watched youtube videos of 8 in action and honestly I don't get all the hate. Doesn't seem that horrible.

Still not getting it of course. Not really enough of an improvement over 7 to justify the cost.
 
2012-12-07 01:01:11 AM  
FTA: In a side note at the bottom, Greenspun theorized that tech writers have given Windows 8 decent reviews because "journalists love anything new, different, and complicated. Windows 8 is all of those things."

Or, it could be because it's actually, y'know, decent. Increased performance, more versatility, and it works. But, no one went broke by attention whoring at Microsoft's expense, I guess, so we'll see second-stringers keep doing so to gain eyeshare.
 
2012-12-07 01:02:18 AM  
I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?
 
2012-12-07 01:02:47 AM  

Old enough to know better: I've watched youtube videos of 8 in action and honestly I don't get all the hate. Doesn't seem that horrible.

Still not getting it of course. Not really enough of an improvement over 7 to justify the cost.


If you have 7 on an existing machine, keep 7 - if you're getting a new machine, get 8. That's really where the money is at present for them, as there's no pressing need to upgrade from 7. It's 7 with a few cool improvements (and a new UI that scares the old folks.)
 
2012-12-07 01:03:16 AM  

NewWorldDan: I figured it out in about 15 seconds. Is everyone else retarded?


Yes. Yes they are.

When you can't figure out squares... you have gone full retard.
 
2012-12-07 01:06:12 AM  

Rent Party: I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?


Apple and Google are upset that you're not cupping their balls, apparently. We're looking at the holiday season, and Microsoft just came out with new software and some cool hardware on which to run it. That's going to eat into the money Apple & Google expected for their software & hardware, and so we get this indirect marketing crap.

Apple & Google have forgotten one of the basic rules - you lengthen your own line. You don't keep trying to shorten the other guy's line - it's a losing prospect in the long run.
 
2012-12-07 01:06:42 AM  
MS does a good job of giving IT departments a break, by making alternating "useful" and "immensely broken" OS upgrades. XP was a "gotta have it", vista was grounds for termination. Windows 7, we jumped right on. Windows 8, will never see daylight in most shops.
 
2012-12-07 01:08:44 AM  
I have a Nexus 7 and I like using the touchscreen format on it. Not sure I'd like it for a full time computer, though.
 
2012-12-07 01:08:59 AM  
Windows 8 is fine. It's a little different. There are ways to put the start menu back if you need it (Classic Start, Start 8), and the performance improvements are entirely worthwhile. Yes, they moved a bunch of crap around for no reason, but they do that in every Windows release. It's not Vista and it's not ME.
 
2012-12-07 01:09:18 AM  
Windows as a Christmas gift sucks, regardless of version. At least buy me a new farking computer.
 
2012-12-07 01:11:05 AM  

FormlessOne: Rent Party: I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?

Apple and Google are upset that you're not cupping their balls, apparently. We're looking at the holiday season, and Microsoft just came out with new software and some cool hardware on which to run it. That's going to eat into the money Apple & Google expected for their software & hardware, and so we get this indirect marketing crap.

Apple & Google have forgotten one of the basic rules - you lengthen your own line. You don't keep trying to shorten the other guy's line - it's a losing prospect in the long run.


There are some guys out there who I think are rough on Win8 because they're on the take to do so. It wouldn't be the first time that's been a tactic for Google.

I've done 3D modeling (3ds Max), special effects work (AfterEffects), gaming (Skyrim), programming (Visual Studio 2012), and POSIX work (Cygwin) on Windows 8. It works just as well or better than Windows 7, which is, by most measurements, the best workstation OS ever made. I've pushed this thing to its limit several times. It won't break. If you can't figure out a few simple tricks with the new start screen, then it's on you.
 
2012-12-07 01:18:48 AM  

FormlessOne: Old enough to know better: I've watched youtube videos of 8 in action and honestly I don't get all the hate. Doesn't seem that horrible.

Still not getting it of course. Not really enough of an improvement over 7 to justify the cost.

If you have 7 on an existing machine, keep 7 - if you're getting a new machine, get 8. That's really where the money is at present for them, as there's no pressing need to upgrade from 7. It's 7 with a few cool improvements (and a new UI that scares the old folks.)


This. My thoughts exactly.
 
2012-12-07 01:44:33 AM  

Rent Party: I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?


If you're browsing Fark using IE in Metro and have a chat message from a buddy some other chat application, can you read the chat without leaving IE? Can you have a YouTube video playing off to the side while working on an Excel spreadsheet, while simultaneously keeping an eye on an FTP transfer?
 
2012-12-07 01:55:22 AM  
My life is all about windows and tabs. When I asked the M$ guy how to get the Surface to go windowed he floundered and tried to weasel about it needing to have some background things closed.

My impression: It's just another tablet. And I'm not impressed with tablets. If you can't view two things at once so you can shuffle data around then it's just a web viewer with a games platform.

/Doing data entry into a spreadsheet using bits of data from a database return in a browser window
//And having to make judgements.
///Can't cut and paste that.
 
2012-12-07 01:56:53 AM  
I still dont get all this foggy hate, foggy cuz not many people come out and claim they hate W8, but everyone kind of points to the next guy saying he hates it, then he just points to the next dude... anyways I have W8 for my main pc @ home, my other 3 pcs have W7, I like the interface and I can manage my way around it just fine. Is it that people are inherently derp so if theres a slight change everyone goes haywire?
 
2012-12-07 02:02:18 AM  
Windows 8 isn't all that bad once you get used to it. It's a little weird, but you can tweak it to work on a desktop or laptop. On a Surface Pro, it should be awesome. The Start Screen is a bit of a hot mess because it is pretty much another computer OS running on top of Windows.

Windows RT on the other hand is an abomination. I've got a Surface RT for a project at work, and it is useless for anything outside of web browsing and Office docs, and even the web browsing is a bit sluggish and buggy, and it has all sorts of weirdness that results from it being a full version of Windows shoehorned into a tablet OS. Half of the internal storage is used up by the OS, so the GB Surface has only about as much usable space as a 16 GB iPad. What's the point of having a desktop UI and a trackpad on a tablet if you can't install desktop apps? What's the point of having an expandable memory slot if you have to dick around in Disk Management or even the command prompt just to get the Metro apps to see the card as part of the media libraries? If Sinofsky hadn't been such a dick with a bad case of not invented here syndrome, they could have easily adapted Windows Phone 8 into a great ARM tablet OS. Ditch the desktop completely for the ARM tablets, and make the Start Screen on Windows 8 compatible with Win Phone apps, and you would have had a lot better start for Win RT. Even the name is stupid because hardly anyone even knows what RT means. It's just a hot mess.

A friend of mine asked me if he should buy a Surface RT and I had to tell him to buy an iPad because I wanted him to remain my friend.
 
2012-12-07 02:08:39 AM  
The Windows 8 hate is mildly annoying at this point. The media is trying extremely too hard to make it sound like Vista.
 
2012-12-07 02:15:48 AM  
I went to a Windows 8 marketing event where they had dozens of different laptops you could play with. But since they hadn't labeled which laptops had touchscreens and which didn't, they all had fingerprints all over the screens.
 
2012-12-07 02:26:02 AM  

wildcardjack: My life is all about windows and tabs. When I asked the M$ guy how to get the Surface to go windowed he floundered and tried to weasel about it needing to have some background things closed.

My impression: It's just another tablet. And I'm not impressed with tablets. If you can't view two things at once so you can shuffle data around then it's just a web viewer with a games platform.

/Doing data entry into a spreadsheet using bits of data from a database return in a browser window
//And having to make judgements.
///Can't cut and paste that.


You can drop down to the desktop on a Surface RT, and use Aero Snap to do the side by side thing for windowed apps. The big problems are that you 1) limited to Office, IE, and whatever else comes preinstalled on Windows and you can't add any new Desktop apps 2) you lose all of the Metro UI touch optimizations and are back into something not much better than the godawful Windows 7 touch experience, so it is really hard to do anything without the keyboard cover's crappy mousepad or an external mouse.

A Surface Pro, on the other hand, doesn't have issue #1 because it is not limited to Metro apps only. It still has issue #2, however, and if you want to truly use it as a tablet and not a hybrid you have to deal with the Metro apps in the Windows Store, which is not only a ghost town compared to iOS and Android stores, but the apps themselves are buggy and unfinished. One app I use a lot on other tablets is Comixology, and the Metro version I tried in Windows RT is slow and half the time will give you a black screen instead of displaying the pages properly and is sluggish as hell, while the same app on my Kindle Fire HD doesn't give me any issues and handles several gigabytes of comics with no slowdown (their $0.99 comic sales are hard to resist).

There's definitely some potential there, but the Surface RT just feels like an unfinished beta product. One other thing that drives me crazy is that the keyboard cover (which is actually pretty nice to type on) has a caps lock key. The Surface, however, gives no onscreen cue that the caps lock has been activated, unlike every other laptop in the world.
 
2012-12-07 02:27:15 AM  
I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop. I dislike clutter. I use the task bar instead. Now Microsoft has come up with an OS that looks like this:
img13.imageshack.us
In my opinion, this is very ugly.
 
2012-12-07 02:33:14 AM  
And one last thing that drive me crazy. Out of the box Windows RT is set to put the tablet to sleep after an absurdly short time of not being used (I think it is something like a minute or two). Unlike Windows Phone, where this is easy to change in the lock screen settings, Windows RT doesn't let you tweak this commonly changed setting in the main Metro-ized settings screen. No, you have to go to the Desktop, and then dig into the power settings to change the sleep and screen dimming timers. A settings screen that gives you tiny little tapping targets on a 10.6" screen, so good luck trying to do it easily if you didn't buy the keyboard cover.
 
2012-12-07 02:36:47 AM  

red5ish: I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop. I dislike clutter. I use the task bar instead. Now Microsoft has come up with an OS that looks like this:
[img13.imageshack.us image 800x450]
In my opinion, this is very ugly.


You can remove (far as I recall) whatever you don't like.

I keep about five icons on the W7 desktop and about five things on the taskbar, so I understand the clutter thing. And yet, I'm fine with W8. People who don't get that the Start Screen is just the Start Button exploded from a corner to a screen ... don't get stuff.
 
2012-12-07 02:38:37 AM  
I haven't touched Windows 8, so it might be awesome. But it certainly LOOKS unappealing to me. And there's nothing it does that gets me excited to try it despite that.
 
2012-12-07 02:57:09 AM  
My aunt tricked by Fry's tech support into buying Win8. (FU Fry's!) It took me few minutes to figure out how to restart the computer. It used to be 1 or 2 click away from restart. Now I need to go through so many steps just to do something that simple.
 
2012-12-07 03:13:05 AM  

Flying Code Monkey: . People who don't get that the Start Screen is just the Start Button exploded from a corner to a screen ... don't get stuff.


I think that's the best way to put it.

Some people have built their own sense of identity on not liking new things. Change hurts them personally.
 
2012-12-07 03:15:00 AM  

JosephFinn: If Back worked consistently, that might be true. But it doesn't: I Never Have Any Idea What The Back Button Will Do


I was asked why I didn't go with Android-based phone for my work phone and my answer was THIS. Consistant user experience is not androids strong suite.

/neither is stability but that's another topic for another fark thread
 
2012-12-07 03:43:14 AM  

ISO15693: Flying Code Monkey: . People who don't get that the Start Screen is just the Start Button exploded from a corner to a screen ... don't get stuff.

I think that's the best way to put it.

Some people have built their own sense of identity on not liking new things. Change hurts them personally.


I'm still waiting to hear why I would want the start menu "exploded" over the entire screen, covering up everything while replacing my nice tidy list of shortcuts with giant tiles and advertisements. Stupidest thing they've done in a long time.
 
2012-12-07 04:46:31 AM  
I've been using it for a few weeks and I am still trying to figure out how the hell anyone could have possibly thought this was a good idea. When they completely ruined the Xbox live UI I was somewhat annoyed. Now that they've applied the same idiotic scheme to windows I'm not entirely sure what to think. It's like they made a conscious decision to ignore many of the most basic principals of UI design. Windows 7 had a perfectly good interface. There was no need to destroy it like that.
 
2012-12-07 05:14:14 AM  

Skyfrog: ISO15693: Flying Code Monkey: . People who don't get that the Start Screen is just the Start Button exploded from a corner to a screen ... don't get stuff.

I think that's the best way to put it.

Some people have built their own sense of identity on not liking new things. Change hurts them personally.

I'm still waiting to hear why I would want the start menu "exploded" over the entire screen, covering up everything while replacing my nice tidy list of shortcuts with giant tiles and advertisements. Stupidest thing they've done in a long time.


It's not just the start screen (it is very ugly however) it's the fact that you can only have one application on screen at a time. Why on earth would I want this 'Feature'?
 
2012-12-07 05:18:26 AM  

cman: bbfreak: cman: JosephFinn: What is the best feature of iOS on the iPad? A permanent hardware Home button. It isn't as convenient as going "Back" on Android

If Back worked consistently, that might be true. But it doesn't: I Never Have Any Idea What The Back Button Will Do

Back button sucks hard.

Aint nothing else to say bout that

I have never had a problem with the back button and my phone is running Gingerbread.

The problem with the back button is that it has no uniformity. When you press the Home button on the iPad, you know what is going to happen. Pressing the back button is like rolling the dice taking a chance and 1/4th the time it doesnt go where you expect it to go


If only Android had a home button....
 
2012-12-07 05:21:16 AM  

CujoQuarrel: It's not just the start screen (it is very ugly however) it's the fact that you can only have one application on screen at a time. Why on earth would I want this 'Feature'?


But it's just so intuitive to have to drop out of the primary UI into a secondary UI to multitask, duh!
 
2012-12-07 05:21:45 AM  

pudding7: Rent Party: I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?

If you're browsing Fark using IE in Metro and have a chat message from a buddy some other chat application, can you read the chat without leaving IE? Can you have a YouTube video playing off to the side while working on an Excel spreadsheet, while simultaneously keeping an eye on an FTP transfer?


You can do it in desktop mode...just like in every other version of Windows. Metro mode not mandatory...
 
2012-12-07 05:38:43 AM  
Every time I see a screenshot of windows 8 I find myself saying out loud "That screen can just fark off, there is no way I am using that OS"

When did `forwards` become `backwards` in the progress of technology?

slower, smaller, worse design, less features.

"It`s not crappy, it`s advanced!"
 
2012-12-07 05:44:29 AM  
Because if you don't constantly fark with how your product looks and behaves then how can you justify selling someone something they already have?
 
2012-12-07 06:05:59 AM  

CujoQuarrel: Skyfrog: ISO15693: Flying Code Monkey: . People who don't get that the Start Screen is just the Start Button exploded from a corner to a screen ... don't get stuff.

It's not just the start screen (it is very ugly however) it's the fact that you can only have one application on screen at a time. Why on earth would I want this 'Feature'?


This...
amongst others is the reason that Win 8 is utter dogshiat. Even in OS X, the expand to screen feature combined with spaces is very rarely used. (Spaces is used a lot, but i find that having any single app in 'fullscreen', is an impediment to productivity) In fact i'm currently programming an EPOS system for a friend in XP, and it's singlemost annoying feature is the fact that it's full screen, and theres no way to get out of it without exiting it.

However other highlights about the shiattiness of Win 8, include the fact that NO metro apps are cross compatible. Yes thats right folks, after all this 'consolidation' and 'one OS to rule them all', if you develop a metro app for winpho 8, it won't run on Surface RT, or Win 8 pro(per)

Way to encourage developers there MS!
 
2012-12-07 06:31:09 AM  
Windows 8 is better than 7 which was better than Vista which wasn't much better than XP.

Try actually using it, and maybe spending oh, 4 minutes getting used to it. But no, really LINUX ON THE DESKTOP IS THIS YEAR!
 
2012-12-07 06:40:04 AM  
Since this is a Windows 8 thread, I will post this here. I originally posted it to the Microsoft help board, but I never got a reply. I'm sure there is some really obvious answer that will make me look like an idiot, but I'm at a loss to fix this:

I recently upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows 7 on my Sony Vaio laptop (model #VCBYB35KX). Everything was working great for the first two days. However, after that time period, I began running into serious problems. I woke my computer up from a "sleep" state to find that my computer could no longer see any devices plugged into my USB ports, my Bluetooth mouse, or my built-in webcam.

I checked my devices under the setting in an attempt to rectify the problem. My computer still has the mouse listed as a device, but I every attempt to remove it from the device list so that I could reload it from scratch resulted in a message "remove failed".

When I open up the "devices and printers" menu, my computer shows up with an "error" message. The automatic troubleshoot does nothing. It is a circular problem saying that there is a problem with the device driver, and an attempt to apply the fix, which goes right back to saying there is a problem.

I tried to manually install driver updates to all hardware on my computer, and while I was able to install the drivers themselves, there was no change.

As a last resort, I did a system restore to immediately after the Windows 8 install (when everything was still working). Not only did this not work, but now the button on my start menu all fail to work, except for the button that leads to the desktop.

So, yeah. I would say that my Windows 8 experience is even worse than most.
 
2012-12-07 06:40:56 AM  

ghare: Windows 8 is better than 7 which was better than Vista which wasn't much better than XP.

Try actually using it, and maybe spending oh, 4 minutes getting used to it. But no, really LINUX ON THE DESKTOP IS THIS YEAR!


Dude...I spent 3 weeks using it as a test bed for whether our company should upgrade or not. It doesn't even farking play nicely with MS's OWN CRM SYSTEMS.... (oh yes thats right, to get Dynamics to actually work, you need to install this framework, and that framework that we're not going to put any instructions about this on the website)

Every morning i fired it up, it sent chills down my spine...the thought of this thing actually being deployed in any company scares the shiat out of me....as an IT department you are basically signing your own Productivity DEATH WARRANT.

The thought of it being put on my 60 year old mothers laptop (my mums 60, not her laptop) would make me run for the hills!
 
2012-12-07 06:44:38 AM  
i18.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-07 06:44:41 AM  

Skyfrog: ISO15693: Flying Code Monkey: . People who don't get that the Start Screen is just the Start Button exploded from a corner to a screen ... don't get stuff.

I think that's the best way to put it.

Some people have built their own sense of identity on not liking new things. Change hurts them personally.

I'm still waiting to hear why I would want the start menu "exploded" over the entire screen, covering up everything while replacing my nice tidy list of shortcuts with giant tiles and advertisements. Stupidest thing they've done in a long time.


You don't get it man, it's metro. It's new and cool and you should like it or you're an old dinosaur that doesn't get it and can't adapt.

You probably don't even tweet updates to your friends when your dropping a load do you?

Join the rest of us in the 21st century mate, sheesh.
 
2012-12-07 07:02:12 AM  
A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional. If you didn't think it made sense on a PC with a mouse, you could simply turn it off.

Microsoft is not such a company.
 
2012-12-07 07:13:54 AM  

SomeTexan: It's windows 7 (NT 6.2) with a rotten UI. Add Start8 and Bob's your uncle.


THIS

/ the metro stuff is a complete waste of time on the desktop.
 
2012-12-07 07:27:29 AM  
Just give it to a Mac user

'I heard that you can run Windows on your Mac and got this got you so you can have both!'
 
2012-12-07 07:43:31 AM  
Come on guys, you should know by now that you don't adopt a new operating system from Microsoft until Service Pacl 1 is released.

Have you learned nothing?
 
2012-12-07 07:48:55 AM  
You go through and "unpin" the crap you don't use.
You go through and "pin" the crap you do use.

The Start menu is just that - your shortcut to the crap you use. Unlike the old start menu (which used a small amount of space) - this one uses more.

You can still pin crap to the taskbar and can still alt-tab between crap on Windows RT or Windows 8.

Been using it since the preview. I wouldn't go back to 7 - because there isn't a need to. The two things that bug me are shutdown and Windows Update (no desktop notification, only a logon notification) - and Alt-F4 on the Desktop still shuts it down so it's not that big of a deal.
 
2012-12-07 08:15:15 AM  
I will get Win8 in a VMWare instance when it's available through my employer, and get a look at it. But I expect that I will skip it completely on my machines. I'm pretty sure that this "one OS for all devices" idea will not pan out...at least, not when it comes from Microsoft. They're barely capable of creating an OS just for PCs.

Also I look forward to hearing about the thousands of new, gigantic security holes MS baked into this version of Windows.
 
2012-12-07 08:15:42 AM  
My boss has been enamored with his Surface since he got it. I have a sinking feeling that he's going to take the Christmas bonuses and sink them into Surface's as gifts for everyone.

No one here wants a Surface.
 
2012-12-07 08:31:30 AM  
Serious question...

I pretty much exclusively launch applications from years of Vista and Windows 7 use by hitting the windows key on my keyboard, typing a few characters of the name of the program, and hitting enter. I use it for all built in Microsoft stuff, like remote desktop, various options and settings, as well as every application I use. As a developer, I'm quite proficient at this, notably faster than say, finding an icon. I have about 2 icons on my desktop at any time... usually things I'm actively working on.

How can I make Windows 8 work that way? Especially launching things by typing, and not touching a mouse.
 
2012-12-07 08:31:49 AM  

likefunbutnot: Windows 8 is fine. It's a little different. There are ways to put the start menu back if you need it (Classic Start, Start 8), and the performance improvements are entirely worthwhile. Yes, they moved a bunch of crap around for no reason, but they do that in every Windows release. It's not Vista and it's not ME.


An OS that's only good if you install 3rd party apps is not a good OS.
 
2012-12-07 08:32:36 AM  
Instead of a start button and a simple list of what you have, you get boxes to click on. As you add more software, there are more and more boxes until the one you need now is a needle in a haystack. That is not progress, it is a giant leap backward to Windows 3.1, and that is a stupid idea. Shutting it down is a pain in the ass. Even if you have been using computers all your life, you will probably need a "for dummies" book to figure this mess out.
 
2012-12-07 08:36:36 AM  
Since you can only display only display one screen at a time, should't it be called "Window 8"?
 
2012-12-07 08:37:02 AM  
Windows 8 is a stupid thing designed by stupid people and aimed at stupid consumers and I am annoyed that I will have to begin using it shortly to remotely manage some new Server 2012 machines we're currently setting up.
 
2012-12-07 08:37:39 AM  
I've yet to use it for any considerable length of time because, frankly, I don't need to. 7 is in my mind nearly perfect. But I do have a question:

Everything I've read says that you can easily switch to the classic desktop. If that's the case, what's the big deal? It would seem more a minor annoyance than cause for doom and gloom. With Microsoft, you should all be accustomed to some level of minor annoyance by now.

Also, wouldn't the performance improvements negate or even surpass being annoyed by Metro?

I'm not saying you should run out an buy Win8 (doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to do so, like there was with 7). But if it's installed on a new laptop you buy, I don't see what all the anger is about.
 
2012-12-07 08:38:36 AM  

Quantumbunny: Serious question...

I pretty much exclusively launch applications from years of Vista and Windows 7 use by hitting the windows key on my keyboard, typing a few characters of the name of the program, and hitting enter. I use it for all built in Microsoft stuff, like remote desktop, various options and settings, as well as every application I use. As a developer, I'm quite proficient at this, notably faster than say, finding an icon. I have about 2 icons on my desktop at any time... usually things I'm actively working on.

How can I make Windows 8 work that way? Especially launching things by typing, and not touching a mouse.


That's exactly how you are supposed to find things on the Start screen with Windows 8. You'd feel right at home.
 
2012-12-07 08:44:16 AM  
It's too bad, really. Windows 8 is fast, stable, and works quite well on a touch screen. but put it on a non touch screen system and the UI is horrible.
 
2012-12-07 08:45:09 AM  

Absurdity: Since this is a Windows 8 thread, I will post this here. I originally posted it to the Microsoft help board, but I never got a reply. I'm sure there is some really obvious answer that will make me look like an idiot, but I'm at a loss to fix this:

I recently upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows 7 on my Sony Vaio laptop (model #VCBYB35KX). Everything was working great for the first two days. However, after that time period, I began running into serious problems. I woke my computer up from a "sleep" state to find that my computer could no longer see any devices plugged into my USB ports, my Bluetooth mouse, or my built-in webcam.

I checked my devices under the setting in an attempt to rectify the problem. My computer still has the mouse listed as a device, but I every attempt to remove it from the device list so that I could reload it from scratch resulted in a message "remove failed".

When I open up the "devices and printers" menu, my computer shows up with an "error" message. The automatic troubleshoot does nothing. It is a circular problem saying that there is a problem with the device driver, and an attempt to apply the fix, which goes right back to saying there is a problem.

I tried to manually install driver updates to all hardware on my computer, and while I was able to install the drivers themselves, there was no change.

As a last resort, I did a system restore to immediately after the Windows 8 install (when everything was still working). Not only did this not work, but now the button on my start menu all fail to work, except for the button that leads to the desktop.

So, yeah. I would say that my Windows 8 experience is even worse than most.


My guess, you did an "Upgrade" from 7 to 8. I did that with my work computer and some of the windows 7 drivers got "stuck". Like with any OS upgrade it is far better to do a fresh install, load all the windows 8 drivers from Sony for your computer and it should behave fine.

When I upgraded my Lenovo T430 to 8, my biggest issue was with the intel graphics chip giving weird errors and not allowing me to go into dual monitor mode. Once I did a fresh install, all was better.

And overall, I like 8 better than 7 due to performance increases on boot, shutdown and just operating normally.
 
2012-12-07 08:48:47 AM  

uncoveror: Instead of a start button and a simple list of what you have, you get boxes to click on.


To be fair, this makes perfect sense. The fact is that millions of idiots who use Windows still do not understand how the start menu works even though it's been the standard first step to doing anything in the OS for over 17 years.

I have many co-workers who, if Excel or Outlook or IE are not pinned to the taskbar or provided as a shortcut on the desktop, do not know how to start any of those programs in Windows 7.

I just wish that their Professional line was actually aimed more at professionals and went beyond the added backoffice toolkit support you get with it. I'm tired of having to share an OS with morons who still haven't figured out after all these years how to select text without click-holding with the mouse or what the system tray is.

Let the idiots have their idiotOS with the pretty speak-n-spell design. I want something functional that integrates well with AD and keeps as much of the UI out of the way as possible so I can do some real work while Lisa Limpbrain fumbles about with how to resize her potluck lunch spreadsheet.
 
2012-12-07 09:03:35 AM  

uncoveror: Instead of a start button and a simple list of what you have, you get boxes to click on. As you add more software, there are more and more boxes until the one you need now is a needle in a haystack. That is not progress, it is a giant leap backward to Windows 3.1, and that is a stupid idea. Shutting it down is a pain in the ass. Even if you have been using computers all your life, you will probably need a "for dummies" book to figure this mess out.


#1, you don't need to use Metro, I rarely do and use the desktop 99% of the time.

#2 you can remove those boxes of junk you don't want pinned to Metro.

#3 Shutting down the PC is easy to do, you are just lazy or don't know how to do it the right way because you can't unlearn how horribly clunky it really was in prior versions.
 
2012-12-07 09:05:05 AM  

Quantumbunny: Serious question...

I pretty much exclusively launch applications from years of Vista and Windows 7 use by hitting the windows key on my keyboard, typing a few characters of the name of the program, and hitting enter. I use it for all built in Microsoft stuff, like remote desktop, various options and settings, as well as every application I use. As a developer, I'm quite proficient at this, notably faster than say, finding an icon. I have about 2 icons on my desktop at any time... usually things I'm actively working on.

How can I make Windows 8 work that way? Especially launching things by typing, and not touching a mouse.


Easy... Press the windows key on your keyboard and start typing the program name. If you are even lazier, you can create shortcuts to launch certain things. It just looks different because the metro overlay comes up when you press the windows key. Type and you start searching all your programs.
 
2012-12-07 09:10:17 AM  

SomeTexan: It's not that bad. Seriously.

It's windows 7 (NT 6.2) with a rotten UI. Add Start8 and Bob's your uncle.

/ Seriously
/ Vista = 6.0, Win 7 = 6.1, Win 8 = 6.2


You should not have to add something to your brand new OS just to make it functional for 90% of the user base (you know... the ones that are not tech savvy)
 
2012-12-07 09:12:34 AM  
I have a 4 year old desktop with Vista, and despite occasional memory issues, it's fine. However, I recently ran across my first game that I wanted that I could not run at all with my current rig. I went onto newegg.com to browse new PCs, and about half of them are still windows 7. I'm thinking I should buy a computer sooner rather than later, before microsoft takes away Windows 7 altogether.

I just cannot imagine having a tablet UI on my desktop computer. I just do not see what functionality it adds, and I'd have to install 3rd party programs to restore the functionality that Windows 7 already has.
 
2012-12-07 09:15:35 AM  
Windows 8 isn't that bad.

C'mon guys, if you want to show how cool and edgy you are, you're supposed to be hating on Apple now.
 
2012-12-07 09:22:03 AM  
Lol@all the farkers that can't figure out the back button on Android.
Whatever you were doing, it goes back one action.
If I have a browser open, then open my email, back button brings me back to the browser.
If I touch the screen too long and the copy/paste tools show up, back button makes them go away.

Not hard.
 
2012-12-07 09:22:31 AM  

styckx: The Windows 8 hate is mildly annoying at this point. The media is trying extremely too hard to make it sound like Vista.


hahahaha... omg.... wait....{cough}... damn dude, not so early in the morning!

Vista was the bomb compared to 8... and Vista sucked ass hardcore, but at least it didn't change what it meant to have a computer.

Change everything around so nobody can find a damn thing? CHECK
Make sure nobody can run more than one app at a time? CHECK
Make sure that all previous users can't upgrade anything without a dog and pony show? CHECK
Turn ordinary PCs into useless boat anchors by making them Tablets without Touchscreens? CHECK

Yup... it's got everything going for it.

I think you forget that 90% of the user base is not tech savvy in any way, shape, form, fashion, idea, principle, concept, or any otherwise noted or un-noted exception. People like familiarity. The 90% of the Windows user base who are not tech savvy who have used any version of Windows before will look at Windows 8 and go "WTF?". If this is a trolling attempt by Microsoft, it's masterful... I suspect, however, that it is an effort to drive up Customer Assistance sales (Tech Support at $35 per issue adds up quick)... There is going to be quite a lot of "How do I" calls.
 
2012-12-07 09:23:34 AM  
Can you not set your own desktop wallpaper in Windows 8?
 
2012-12-07 09:28:31 AM  
The operating system I use blows all of these other ones out of the water. You wouldn't have heard of it.
 
2012-12-07 09:32:59 AM  

WhippingBoy: The operating system I use blows all of these other ones out of the water. You wouldn't have heard of it.


try me
 
2012-12-07 09:35:32 AM  

BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional


Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.

BullBearMS: f you didn't think it made sense on a PC with a mouse, you could simply turn it off.

Microsoft is not such a company.


A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences.

You are not such a person.
 
2012-12-07 09:42:51 AM  

WhippingBoy: Windows 8 isn't that bad.


You realize that this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, right? By all accounts, Windows 7 was "really good," and here you're saying Windows 8 "isn't that bad." So why would anybody choose windows 8 over windows 7?

Actually, I'm going to leave that as a standing question to everybody. What benefits does Windows 8 have over Windows 7?
 
2012-12-07 09:47:50 AM  

jack21221: What benefits does Windows 8 have over Windows 7?


It boots fast under certain conditions and if you're one of those diots who often screws up your computer so that it's running like molasses after a year it has a nifty "undo to factory condition" option.

Uh....
 
2012-12-07 09:51:46 AM  

Absurdity: Since this is a Windows 8 thread, I will post this here. I originally posted it to the Microsoft help board, but I never got a reply. I'm sure there is some really obvious answer that will make me look like an idiot, but I'm at a loss to fix this:

I recently upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows 7 on my Sony Vaio laptop (model #VCBYB35KX). Everything was working great for the first two days. However, after that time period, I began running into serious problems. I woke my computer up from a "sleep" state to find that my computer could no longer see any devices plugged into my USB ports, my Bluetooth mouse, or my built-in webcam.

I checked my devices under the setting in an attempt to rectify the problem. My computer still has the mouse listed as a device, but I every attempt to remove it from the device list so that I could reload it from scratch resulted in a message "remove failed".

When I open up the "devices and printers" menu, my computer shows up with an "error" message. The automatic troubleshoot does nothing. It is a circular problem saying that there is a problem with the device driver, and an attempt to apply the fix, which goes right back to saying there is a problem.

I tried to manually install driver updates to all hardware on my computer, and while I was able to install the drivers themselves, there was no change.

As a last resort, I did a system restore to immediately after the Windows 8 install (when everything was still working). Not only did this not work, but now the button on my start menu all fail to work, except for the button that leads to the desktop.

So, yeah. I would say that my Windows 8 experience is even worse than most.


what component currently has an exclamation point on it in device manager?
 
2012-12-07 09:56:50 AM  

thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.
 
2012-12-07 09:57:41 AM  
So much uninformed bashing in this thread.

And yes - you can run two apps in a split-screen mode at the same time. And you can have tons of apps open in the background, and switching is super easy. And being able to search your calendar, people, files, apps, music, web, etc. all from the same place is hella convenient.

I love the new remote desktop app - It's like tabs for Remote Desktop. Using the old rdp desktop application now feels like using browsers before they invented tabs.

The calendar/chat notifications are great - even when I'm just working in the desktop. The default weather app is incredible. I've had a little problem with my bluetooth module, but beyond that, this upgrade has been great for me.
 
2012-12-07 10:00:07 AM  
Microsoft redeemed themselves with Windows 7 by making their best OS since 3.1. Now they insult their users by making what is essentially At Ease for System 7. Yuck.
 
2012-12-07 10:00:15 AM  

thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

 
2012-12-07 10:06:34 AM  

wholedamnshow: Lol@all the farkers that can't figure out the back button on Android.


It does have some weird inconsistencies, but you get used to them so they aren't a surprise. In fact, I've intentionally turned on some of the inconsistencies since I like them.

For example, I may be in a browser, and tap on my new email notification from the notification bar. That drops me into that message in my email client. If I hit back from there, it takes me back to the folder list and not back to the browser. I'm ok with this and like it fine. There's a few other apps where it does this, but you learn them fairly quickly. Generally it makes sense where it does it.
 
2012-12-07 10:06:59 AM  

Ba'boon: So much uninformed bashing in this thread.


Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

So far, we have "it boots faster." I reboot my computer MAYBE once a week, so this is not an issue. You talk about calendar/chat notifications. I don't know what chat you're talking about, and my (few) calendar entries are on my iPhone.

You can have tons of programs open in EVERY version of windows, from windows 3.1 on, so I don't see how this is an upgrade. I can't imagine a "weather app" being "incredible." It's trivial to open a new tab in Chrome and just click on my weather channel bookmark. Having that on the desktop would be so minor as to be unnoticeable.

Got anything else?
 
2012-12-07 10:10:17 AM  
I love threads full of people that vehemently pretend to know wtf they are talking about.

I've been using Win8 for a couple weeks now and it is, without a doubt, an improvement in every way over 7. Now, is it worth the money to buy? That depends, but it is no doubt better, UI and all.

Firstly, you can have 2, not 1, Metro app open at the same time. About 2 dozen people said otherwise, that alone proves they've never even watched a video of someone using Win8. Secondly, you can have the desktop AND an app open at the same time. Win8, for screen space purposes, treats the entire desktop as a giant metro window and docks the app itself off to the side. I have often used the messenger app while working on my desktop.

The new start screen is much better than the old start menu. The old start menu was quickly reduced to near uselessness by tons of nested folders obscuring what you were looking for. It took me about two weeks to stop using it in Win7. So I haven't even considered its existence for... 3 years? I don't even remember.

What they did do was take the two actually useful features, pinned items and searching, and make them better. So now rather than a tiny list of pinned items in a tiny start menu, you effectively have an infinite number of them on a giant screen, grouped however you like. I group my frequently clicked ones towards the center of the screen, making them faster to click (Windows Key + click). They also improved the search functionality, which was already quite good. You want pinned items on the desktop? You still have the taskbar and desktop icons.

The live tiles, and online integration are also very nice, and quite useful. I find myself using Metro apps simply because they are so convenient. When I get emails, they pop up and I just click. Now, I still use the web interface when doing anything heavy duty, but it is handy for alerts and reading/replying. I also end up using the messenger because it connects to Facebook without it either being open or having Facebook open. Since I rarely use it, it is nice that people are able to message me.

Finally I enjoy the live tiles. I think they look great and are useful even on a desktop. I look forward to see how they are used in the future. I still spend most of my time on the desktop of course, but the new UI is "Start Menu++" by a long-shot.

/Visual Appeal is a matter of taste, I happen to like it.
 
2012-12-07 10:12:00 AM  

olapbill: Absurdity: Since this is a Windows 8 thread, I will post this here. I originally posted it to the Microsoft help board, but I never got a reply. I'm sure there is some really obvious answer that will make me look like an idiot, but I'm at a loss to fix this:

I recently upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows 7 on my Sony Vaio laptop (model #VCBYB35KX). Everything was working great for the first two days. However, after that time period, I began running into serious problems. I woke my computer up from a "sleep" state to find that my computer could no longer see any devices plugged into my USB ports, my Bluetooth mouse, or my built-in webcam.

I checked my devices under the setting in an attempt to rectify the problem. My computer still has the mouse listed as a device, but I every attempt to remove it from the device list so that I could reload it from scratch resulted in a message "remove failed".

When I open up the "devices and printers" menu, my computer shows up with an "error" message. The automatic troubleshoot does nothing. It is a circular problem saying that there is a problem with the device driver, and an attempt to apply the fix, which goes right back to saying there is a problem.

I tried to manually install driver updates to all hardware on my computer, and while I was able to install the drivers themselves, there was no change.

As a last resort, I did a system restore to immediately after the Windows 8 install (when everything was still working). Not only did this not work, but now the button on my start menu all fail to work, except for the button that leads to the desktop.

So, yeah. I would say that my Windows 8 experience is even worse than most.

what component currently has an exclamation point on it in device manager?


Unfortunately I don't have it in front of me, but it was the USB device manager. I forget exactly what it is called.

/Not too tech savvy. But I really appreciate the help.
 
2012-12-07 10:12:51 AM  

Minktastic Mink!: Microsoft redeemed themselves with Windows 7 by making their best OS since 3.1. Now they insult their users by making what is essentially At Ease for System 7. Yuck.


And I thought I was the ONLY person to remember At Ease!!!!

You sir, Rock!
 
2012-12-07 10:15:49 AM  

Beta Tested: I love threads full of people that vehemently pretend to know wtf they are talking about.

I've been using Win8 for a couple weeks now and it is, without a doubt, an improvement in every way over 7. Now, is it worth the money to buy? That depends, but it is no doubt better, UI and all.

Firstly, you can have 2, not 1, Metro app open at the same time.


You can have an unlimited number of programs open at a time in Windows Vista. Two is a downgrade.

Beta Tested: So now rather than a tiny list of pinned items in a tiny start menu, you effectively have an infinite number of them on a giant screen, grouped however you like.


Oh, you mean like the desktop shortcuts I already have in Vista?
 
2012-12-07 10:17:29 AM  
I think that the problem people have is that they're using Windows 8 with a non-touchscreen computer. Don't do that. When you get your next computer, make sure you get something touchscreen. Windows 8 is just insanely slick on my HP Elitebook.

Plus with how cheap touchscreen PCs are, in two years or so once you've got one you're going to go back and look at this thread and laugh at yourself.

Here's where it's going to be a killer: my three year old looks at a Windows 7 machine and has no idea how to do anything with it. We go to Best Buy and she sees an Ultrabook, bumps the windows button, and then can fire up games, listen to music, do whatever nearly immediately.

I fully expected to hate Windows 8 but honestly, using it for a little while on a touchscreen and I LOVE it.
 
2012-12-07 10:18:03 AM  

Minktastic Mink!: Microsoft redeemed themselves with Windows 7 by making their best OS since 3.1. Now they insult their users by making what is essentially At Ease for System 7. Yuck.


Y'know, Windows 7 got a lot of bashing too. I still strongly disdain a lot of the things they did with it. I've switched to almost exclusively using netsh to control networking because it irritates me that they've buried the interfaces under four or five other screens and I still couldn't tell you to this day how to get to the file/folder settings that used to be so conveniently placed in a menu on explorer... you know... where you'd be anyway if you needed to change those things. And forget networked printers. I've given up trying to install them in any way but creating a new IP port and using the Have Disk option because half the time you just wind up sitting at that stupid Windows Update prompt waiting for 10 minutes for it to fail to find a driver on the assumption that you're too dumb to browse to one yourself.

Personally, I think Windows XP SP2/3 was the last good Microsoft OS. Windows 7 was tolerable because it added a lot of features, but it also pisses me off that they moved so much shiat around for no reason and forced the search bar on you as a replacement for clear and well-labeled menus.

They've been trying to go the Apple idiotization route ever since Vista. Windows 8 is just the biggest leap in the direction of computing-for-tards so it's the one that gets the most hellfire. Vista and 7 were pretty stupid too, though, in their own rights.
 
2012-12-07 10:18:33 AM  

Beta Tested: The new start screen is much better than the old start menu. The old start menu was quickly reduced to near uselessness by tons of nested folders obscuring what you were looking for.


Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?
 
2012-12-07 10:19:29 AM  

meanmutton: Plus with how cheap touchscreen PCs are, in two years or so once you've got one you're going to go back and look at this thread and laugh at yourself.


Oh, I strongly disagree. It takes a lot less effort to use a mouse and keyboard than to have my arm elevated poking around on my screen. My girlfriend has an all-in-one touchscreen PC. I use the mouse and keyboard for everything, and so does she.
 
2012-12-07 10:20:17 AM  

BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional. If you didn't think it made sense on a PC with a mouse, you could simply turn it off.

Microsoft is not such a company.


Umm... have you used Windows 8? The Metro interface is really just a replacement for your start menu. The vast majority of the time you're in the desktop.
 
2012-12-07 10:22:10 AM  

jack21221: Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?


I can give you a couple of reasons. Whether they are worth the price of the upgrade for you? Probably not. I ended up picking it up because as a designer (including UI design) I was so curious, especially about the hate.

Generally, you should get windows 8 if:
1. You have an OS older than 7 (XP, Vista, etc). It is a cheap upgrade and worth it
2. You have other devices in the ecosystem, such as a Surface RT or Lumia. As far as I can tell (I have neither, I just use an old Nokia dumb phone) everything syncs across all of the devices through a central account. So you can edit settings on your phone or RT through your desktop and vice versa.
3. You care about minor performance increases over 7. This doesn't seem to apply to you.
4. You want a central, searchable, built in place to organize all your social media stuff. The people app does an excellent job of this.
5. Once you get used to it (couple days? week? Took me about an hour) the UI is faster to use.

There are probably a couple more I didn't think of.

Whether you feel you should get it or not is up to you, as far as cost, but it is better in nearly every way.
 
2012-12-07 10:22:12 AM  

Absurdity: olapbill: Absurdity: Since this is a Windows 8 thread, I will post this here. I originally posted it to the Microsoft help board, but I never got a reply. I'm sure there is some really obvious answer that will make me look like an idiot, but I'm at a loss to fix this:

I recently upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows 7 on my Sony Vaio laptop (model #VCBYB35KX). Everything was working great for the first two days. However, after that time period, I began running into serious problems. I woke my computer up from a "sleep" state to find that my computer could no longer see any devices plugged into my USB ports, my Bluetooth mouse, or my built-in webcam.

I checked my devices under the setting in an attempt to rectify the problem. My computer still has the mouse listed as a device, but I every attempt to remove it from the device list so that I could reload it from scratch resulted in a message "remove failed".

When I open up the "devices and printers" menu, my computer shows up with an "error" message. The automatic troubleshoot does nothing. It is a circular problem saying that there is a problem with the device driver, and an attempt to apply the fix, which goes right back to saying there is a problem.

I tried to manually install driver updates to all hardware on my computer, and while I was able to install the drivers themselves, there was no change.

As a last resort, I did a system restore to immediately after the Windows 8 install (when everything was still working). Not only did this not work, but now the button on my start menu all fail to work, except for the button that leads to the desktop.

So, yeah. I would say that my Windows 8 experience is even worse than most.

what component currently has an exclamation point on it in device manager?

Unfortunately I don't have it in front of me, but it was the USB device manager. I forget exactly what it is called.

/Not too tech savvy. But I really appreciate the help.


in device manager, right click uninstall it and reboot.
 
2012-12-07 10:22:57 AM  

uncoveror: Instead of a start button and a simple list of what you have, you get boxes to click on. As you add more software, there are more and more boxes until the one you need now is a needle in a haystack. That is not progress, it is a giant leap backward to Windows 3.1, and that is a stupid idea. Shutting it down is a pain in the ass. Even if you have been using computers all your life, you will probably need a "for dummies" book to figure this mess out.


How to do shutdown with Windows 8: Press the power button on your computer.
 
2012-12-07 10:24:15 AM  

jack21221: You can have an unlimited number of programs open at a time in Windows Vista. Two is a downgrade.

Are you obtuse or just stupid? You can have unlimited apps open, 2 METRO apps on SCREEN at the same time, or 1 Metro app AND the desktop which can have as many windows on it as you can squeeze in.

Oh, you mean like the desktop shortcuts I already have in Vista?

Yes, except faster, searchable, and with information.

 
2012-12-07 10:27:32 AM  
I'm installing it today on a spare laptop that I have laying around. Not that I think I'll use it or like it, but I'm genuinely curious.
 
2012-12-07 10:29:32 AM  

jack21221: Ba'boon: So much uninformed bashing in this thread.

Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

So far, we have "it boots faster." I reboot my computer MAYBE once a week, so this is not an issue. You talk about calendar/chat notifications. I don't know what chat you're talking about, and my (few) calendar entries are on my iPhone.

You can have tons of programs open in EVERY version of windows, from windows 3.1 on, so I don't see how this is an upgrade. I can't imagine a "weather app" being "incredible." It's trivial to open a new tab in Chrome and just click on my weather channel bookmark. Having that on the desktop would be so minor as to be unnoticeable.

Got anything else?


Not that I think I'm going to convince you, but the task manager is a LOT better. Much more control and much more information.

The Store, and the apps you get from it, aren't as trivial as you'd suspect at first glance. I think devs will find ways to use it in ways that are definitely meaningful, even to desktop/laptop users... hell, I've used one of the apps there to review for tests in one of my classes. It's a program that displays info about and explains different sorting algorithms. It's presented in a way that makes more sense than your traditional Win32 program.

Want to stick with Windows 7? Fine. Just be aware that Windows 8 is far from the piece of crap everyone makes it out to be.

If you want to stick
 
2012-12-07 10:30:01 AM  

jack21221: WhippingBoy: Windows 8 isn't that bad.

You realize that this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, right? By all accounts, Windows 7 was "really good," and here you're saying Windows 8 "isn't that bad." So why would anybody choose windows 8 over windows 7?

Actually, I'm going to leave that as a standing question to everybody. What benefits does Windows 8 have over Windows 7?


What I've seen: Vastly improved touchscreen support (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer), vastly improved boot and shutdown times, vastly improved search function (particularly program searches -- if I want to launch a program, I can just hit the windows key and then type it and it pops up almost immediately; with Windows 7, it would take 10-15 seconds to search), easier wireless connectivity, a better task manager (honestly, a very small thing), an easier-to-use start menu (that's really all that Metro is for most people; my 3 year old daughter can much more easily find applications than she could with the old start menu and my 70 year old father can actually see what programs he's using), applications seem speedier but I haven't done any comparison so that might just be purely coincidence.

In all, if you're going to get a touchscreen laptop, Windows 8 is insanely awesome.

If you're not, it's pretty indistinguishable from Windows 7 once you realize that Metro is just an imporved start menu.
 
2012-12-07 10:30:52 AM  

Beta Tested: jack21221: Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

I can give you a couple of reasons. Whether they are worth the price of the upgrade for you? Probably not. I ended up picking it up because as a designer (including UI design) I was so curious, especially about the hate.

Generally, you should get windows 8 if:
1. You have an OS older than 7 (XP, Vista, etc). It is a cheap upgrade and worth it


I'm talking about buying a new computer with either 7 or 8 preinstalled.

Beta Tested: 2. You have other devices in the ecosystem, such as a Surface RT or Lumia. As far as I can tell (I have neither, I just use an old Nokia dumb phone) everything syncs across all of the devices through a central account. So you can edit settings on your phone or RT through your desktop and vice versa.


I don't.

Beta Tested: 3. You care about minor performance increases over 7. This doesn't seem to apply to you.


From what I've read, there are no performance increases as far as gaming goes, which would be most important. Games in 7 and 8 get nearly identical framerates.

Beta Tested: 4. You want a central, searchable, built in place to organize all your social media stuff. The people app does an excellent job of this.


I don't have any social media. I'm not on facebook or anywhere else.

Beta Tested: 5. Once you get used to it (couple days? week? Took me about an hour) the UI is faster to use.


I find that difficult to believe, especially since many people have said that the desktop UI is very much like Windows 7. I'm already pretty darn fast with my Vista UI.

Beta Tested: You can have unlimited apps open, 2 METRO apps on SCREEN at the same time, or 1 Metro app AND the desktop which can have as many windows on it as you can squeeze in.


Nobody has explained to me why I would have a Metro app vs a regular windows program (or web browser) that does the same thing. How is this a benefit.

Beta Tested: Yes, except faster, searchable, and with information.


I have 50 desktop icons on my PC, and I know exactly where everything is. I don't see how "searchable" would be a major benefit, and what do you mean by "with information?" My desktop shortcuts and folders all have names. Is that not information enough?
 
2012-12-07 10:31:55 AM  

dready zim: Every time I see a screenshot of windows 8 I find myself saying out loud "That screen can just fark off, there is no way I am using that OS"

When did `forwards` become `backwards` in the progress of technology?

slower, smaller, worse design, less features.

"It`s not crappy, it`s advanced!"


www.extremetech.com

What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?
 
2012-12-07 10:32:21 AM  
It's funny to see the people defending this turd. This is the pivot toward irrelevance for MS. They had a pretty good run - over 25 years of dominance on desktops and notebooks. Xbox will still be pretty good to them, and Office in some form. But the next 5 years will be exceedingly brutal in the OS space. There will be vast numbers of "what happened" articles written.
 
2012-12-07 10:33:00 AM  

moel: Beta Tested: The new start screen is much better than the old start menu. The old start menu was quickly reduced to near uselessness by tons of nested folders obscuring what you were looking for.

Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?


1) Doesn't your mouse have a wheel?
2) Touch screen.
 
2012-12-07 10:35:28 AM  

meanmutton: What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?


Which is the "minimize all windows" button? That's one thing I like in Vista that Windows 7 hid off to the side. I don't see it anywhere there.

Other than that, it looks identical to Windows 7, which isn't a very big selling point for Windows 8.
 
2012-12-07 10:35:58 AM  

Bacontastesgood: It's funny to see the people defending this turd. This is the pivot toward irrelevance for MS. They had a pretty good run - over 25 years of dominance on desktops and notebooks. Xbox will still be pretty good to them, and Office in some form. But the next 5 years will be exceedingly brutal in the OS space. There will be vast numbers of "what happened" articles written.


It's funny seeing Luddites who haven't spent any time with a touch-screen computer and Windows 8 knee-jerk bash what will be seen in a few years as revolutionary technology.
 
2012-12-07 10:36:49 AM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.


So, anything you have to install a "third-party" extension on is crap?

I'll get the word out to all of the Linux/UNIX/Mac OSX guys who use something other than X for their GUI.
 
2012-12-07 10:36:57 AM  
Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?


The start screen as a nested "Menu" is gone, because it was crap. It was replaced with a better interface for pinning, and improved search functionality. Keeping ALL of your program shortcuts in a nested menu is unnecessary and outdated.

I have my start screen at just 1 screen with no scrolling, in fact I stuck some stuff in there just to fill it up a bit more and make it look nice. I only frequently start maybe a dozen programs? For the rest I just start typing and press enter. Much faster than any menu, and what I did in 7 for years.

And the menu is still there if you NEED to use (maybe you don't remember the name of an obscure program?), click on "All Apps". This too is better than nested folders, as you can much more quickly scan for what you are looking for.
 
2012-12-07 10:37:26 AM  

meanmutton: (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer


Care to explain to me under what circumstances I would ever use the touch screen? Right now, I can move my hand a few centimeters in either direction with my arm resting on the table and then move my index finger about a millimeter downwards to click on something. On a touch screen, I'd need to lift my whole arm up and swing it from place to place to click on things. That sounds much, much worse.
 
2012-12-07 10:37:26 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?

Which is the "minimize all windows" button? That's one thing I like in Vista that Windows 7 hid off to the side. I don't see it anywhere there.

Other than that, it looks identical to Windows 7, which isn't a very big selling point for Windows 8.


It's still in the bottom right corner.
 
2012-12-07 10:39:35 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?

Which is the "minimize all windows" button? That's one thing I like in Vista that Windows 7 hid off to the side. I don't see it anywhere there.

Other than that, it looks identical to Windows 7, which isn't a very big selling point for Windows 8.


It's a weird one -- it's invisible, actually. It's right next to the date and time, to the right. I don't know why they made it invisible, that seems kind of silly.

I don't think you should upgrade unless you have a touchscreen computer. I'm certainly not arguing that you should spend the $100 or whatever to buy it. However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.
 
2012-12-07 10:40:35 AM  

meanmutton: However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.


Refer to my previous post. It's far easier to use a mouse to select things. It takes virtually no effort, and the point of the mouse is much smaller than my fat finger, so I can do it more accurately.
 
2012-12-07 10:40:40 AM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.


I just don't use the Metro interface that much except as a start menu replacement. You haven't actually used it, have you?
 
2012-12-07 10:42:23 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.

Refer to my previous post. It's far easier to use a mouse to select things. It takes virtually no effort, and the point of the mouse is much smaller than my fat finger, so I can do it more accurately.


I agree with meanmutton... I know we're all big on mouse usage here, but it's not the end-all, be-all of human-machine interaction. Windows 8 is a chance for everyone to try other stuff... touch, NUI (Kinect, PrimeSense), touchpads/touch mice, etc. Can't hurt.
 
2012-12-07 10:45:41 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer

Care to explain to me under what circumstances I would ever use the touch screen? Right now, I can move my hand a few centimeters in either direction with my arm resting on the table and then move my index finger about a millimeter downwards to click on something. On a touch screen, I'd need to lift my whole arm up and swing it from place to place to click on things. That sounds much, much worse.


It's one of those things you don't really expect to use until you do it. It's much quicker to take your hand from your keyboard to the screen to move the screen than to a mouse, then take the mouse to the scroll bar, then move the scroll bar. So, if I'm in Word and I want to scroll up -- I just drag my finger across the screen and scroll up. If I am reading a PDF in Acrobat and I want to go to the next page, I can just flip through from page to page. If I want to magnify the page, I just pinch like on a tablet instead of playing with the zoom button.

Opening up an app -- quicker to just take your finger from the keyboard to the screen and hit the icon than to take your hand from the keyboard to the mouse, move the mouse to the icon, and then double-click.

Web pages are where i use it the most -- much quicker in every way.

If I get notifications (Outlook says I have a new email, g-talk says I have a new IM or whatever) then it's quicker to just touch the notification on my screen than it is to use the mouse to toggle to it.

Switching applications is faster, too -- just touch the app in the taskbar. Honestly, it's one of those things you never expect to do until, well, you do it.

Plus, it's way easier for a young kid to use a touchscreen than a mouse.
 
2012-12-07 10:45:41 AM  

meanmutton: It's funny seeing Luddites who haven't spent any time with a touch-screen computer and Windows 8 knee-jerk bash what will be seen in a few years as revolutionary technology.


I'm sitting at a touchscreen right now - an HP AIO that I bought 3 years ago. It's had W8 on it, for a month, and I could put that HD back in easily at any time. No interest.

I also run a company that uses 12 W7 machines and one XP machine currently - legacy issues for XP. W8 is such a pile of garbage that we're evaluating macs and ubuntu for future development. It's kind of a biatch because we have about $15k in windows based software - not counting office and whatnot, and have to support users of our hardware that ships with W7 embedded currently. With touchscreens. It's funny dealing with our suppliers because some are in the tank and saying everything's awesome, but clearly pissing themselves with anxiety about W8, and others are just frankly sick of the bullshiat and like us looking for alternatives.

So, IOW, you don't know shiat about me.
 
2012-12-07 10:48:26 AM  

jack21221: Beta Tested: jack21221: Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

I can give you a couple of reasons. Whether they are worth the price of the upgrade for you? Probably not. I ended up picking it up because as a designer (including UI design) I was so curious, especially about the hate.

Generally, you should get windows 8 if:
1. You have an OS older than 7 (XP, Vista, etc). It is a cheap upgrade and worth it

I'm talking about buying a new computer with either 7 or 8 preinstalled....


For a new computer, you'd want 8. Other than that, it seems (you know, like I said) that you don't use many of the features lots of other people would. Which is fine, but no reason to talk trash about something you are unfamiliar with and directing people it MIGHT be useful for away from.

If you are fast with Vista you'd be as fast or faster with 8. I was softening the blow, what took me an hour was setting everything up to my liking, at which point I was faster than on 7.

The benefit of metro apps much smaller for a desktop, but they do come in handy. The ones integrated into windows (email, social, etc), can be set so they are just "on" as part of the OS, which is handy. Other times there are apps that are simply nice to use with no x86 equivilant like the kindle app. Also you can edit and sync setting for apps for your other devices if you have them and, and I think if you buy an app with your phone you can use it on your desktop as well (I don't have a Win8 phone).

So, there are advantages, how many and how much varies from person to person.
 
2012-12-07 10:48:29 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.

Refer to my previous post. It's far easier to use a mouse to select things. It takes virtually no effort, and the point of the mouse is much smaller than my fat finger, so I can do it more accurately.


Yeah, selecting things -- you still use your mouse. It's useful for things like scrolling, magnifying, switching between apps, popping up notifications, etc.
 
2012-12-07 10:48:39 AM  

meanmutton: It's one of those things you don't really expect to use until you do it. It's much quicker to take your hand from your keyboard to the screen to move the screen than to a mouse, then take the mouse to the scroll bar, then move the scroll bar. So, if I'm in Word and I want to scroll up -- I just drag my finger across the screen and scroll up. If I am reading a PDF in Acrobat and I want to go to the next page, I can just flip through from page to page. If I want to magnify the page, I just pinch like on a tablet instead of playing with the zoom button.


I strongly disagree that it is quicker. My girlfriend has a touchscreen all-in-one PC, and I tried using the touch screen when she first got it. It sucked and it was slower and took more effort than just moving a mouse.

meanmutton: Plus, it's way easier for a young kid to use a touchscreen than a mouse.


I'm 30 years old, not a young kid, so I don't see your point.
 
2012-12-07 10:51:43 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: It's one of those things you don't really expect to use until you do it. It's much quicker to take your hand from your keyboard to the screen to move the screen than to a mouse, then take the mouse to the scroll bar, then move the scroll bar. So, if I'm in Word and I want to scroll up -- I just drag my finger across the screen and scroll up. If I am reading a PDF in Acrobat and I want to go to the next page, I can just flip through from page to page. If I want to magnify the page, I just pinch like on a tablet instead of playing with the zoom button.

I strongly disagree that it is quicker. My girlfriend has a touchscreen all-in-one PC, and I tried using the touch screen when she first got it. It sucked and it was slower and took more effort than just moving a mouse.

meanmutton: Plus, it's way easier for a young kid to use a touchscreen than a mouse.

I'm 30 years old, not a young kid, so I don't see your point.


Is her machine running Windows 8? Touchscreen in Windows 7 wasn't nearly as good. I've had a touchscreen computer for a couple years and when I used Win7, I never used it. With Win8, I've found that i use it all the time. It's odd that it's not something I TRIED to do but it's something that just happened for me.

Either way, the difference in price between new touch-screen laptops and new non-touch-screen is quite small. It won't take long before that's all you can get.
 
2012-12-07 10:52:04 AM  

yyssyy: My aunt tricked by Fry's tech support into buying Win8. (FU Fry's!) It took me few minutes to figure out how to restart the computer. It used to be 1 or 2 click away from restart. Now I need to go through so many steps just to do something that simple.


You can make shortcuts to restart or turn off and pin them to the taskbar and the start screen. Honestly after using 8 for a while I could see the appeal of having it on parents computer. It will be a lot easier to walk them through stuff over the phone. I like that searching works just by typing on the start screen and the app store etc. I don't know. I don't think the amount of hate it's getting is in proportion the changes.
 
2012-12-07 10:54:53 AM  

jack21221: I strongly disagree that it is quicker. My girlfriend has a touchscreen all-in-one PC, and I tried using the touch screen when she first got it. It sucked and it was slower and took more effort than just moving a mouse.


If you are slick with a mouse (years or FPS and RTS training here), a touchscreen probably isn't faster. But on a laptop, you might not always be in a situation where you can use a mouse, especially with the hybrid tablet/laptops.
 
2012-12-07 10:55:46 AM  

SomeTexan: It's not that bad. Seriously.

It's windows 7 (NT 6.2) with a rotten UI. Add Start8 and Bob's your uncle.


While I'm glad several third parties have released things that will make the UI more usable, I personally can't get behind an operating system that requires third party software to become functional. It's just a bad idea to have to rely on disparate software sources to make the most fundamental aspect of your computer work the way you want.

If you already have 8, then it's probably the best option. If you have 7, it isn't really a selling point that with third party software, you can make 8 functional.
 
2012-12-07 10:58:15 AM  

burndtdan: While I'm glad several third parties have released things that will make the UI more usable, I personally can't get behind an operating system that requires third party software to become functional. It's just a bad idea to have to rely on disparate software sources to make the most fundamental aspect of your computer work the way you want.

If you already have 8, then it's probably the best option. If you have 7, it isn't really a selling point that with third party software, you can make 8 functional.


Windows 8 is MORE functional than 7 without start 8. However, if you don't have a compelling reason to upgrade, then by all means don't upgrade. When you eventually have to (new PC or whatever), it'll be that much better.
 
2012-12-07 11:00:53 AM  

jack21221: Beta Tested: 3. You care about minor performance increases over 7. This doesn't seem to apply to you.

From what I've read, there are no performance increases as far as gaming goes, which would be most important. Games in 7 and 8 get nearly identical framerates.


Truth, framerates are nearly identical in most cases. The performance increase he was talking about is in boot time. Without getting too technical, Sleep would save your current state information to RAM and put your computer into low power mode. Losing power would kill your current state. Hibernate would save your current state to a quick access file that the system could pull up to load your current state on start-up. The system was shut down, essentially, so even less power was used. With Windows 8, both of those options got a little better and a complete shutdown was overhauled completely. In Win8, shutdown will save your kernal information in a pre-load file (kinda like hibernating the kernal status). The new laptop I bought does not have a SSD in it, but I'll be damned if I can't hit my power button and have my system started in 7 seconds. The system requirements are basically the same, though I think Win8 has a natively higher resolution needed, which might make some older graphics options obsolete. The graphics used by the Windows 8 UI are much lower, and programs in the background (maybe just Metro UI apps) are put into a standby mode, so very little processing power is given to all the stuff you aren't currently using.

jack21221: Beta Tested: 5. Once you get used to it (couple days? week? Took me about an hour) the UI is faster to use.

I find that difficult to believe, especially since many people have said that the desktop UI is very much like Windows 7. I'm already pretty darn fast with my Vista UI.


He was talking about getting used to the Metro UI. You can still dump yourself out to the desktop that is familiar. It doesn't have a start button on the bar at the bottom, but as a lot of people have said, the Metro UI is meant to be a replacement/upgrade the the start menu.

jack21221: Beta Tested: You can have unlimited apps open, 2 METRO apps on SCREEN at the same time, or 1 Metro app AND the desktop which can have as many windows on it as you can squeeze in.

Nobody has explained to me why I would have a Metro app vs a regular windows program (or web browser) that does the same thing. How is this a benefit.


Essentially, you don't, but most of the Metro UI apps are live tiles, meaning instead of just a square with an icon, you will see information regarding that app. Have a music app playing in the background, and the live tile will show you what's currently playing when your on that Metro UI app. The Bing news app will scroll a few top headlines. the Stock app will show current updates to DOW and NASDAQ, People app will consolidate your social networking stuff to one, easy-to-access launchpad for the different social networking platforms and inform you of any available updates, the Mail app will show when you have new massages. All this information is at a glance by just hitting the Windows Key.

jack21221: Beta Tested: Yes, except faster, searchable, and with information.

I have 50 desktop icons on my PC, and I know exactly where everything is. I don't see how "searchable" would be a major benefit, and what do you mean by "with information?" My desktop shortcuts and folders all have names. Is that not information enough?


Say you're looking for a Fantasy Football App. Hit the Windows Key and type in Fantasy Football. If you have the app installed, it will show that. It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store. It may provide links to web pages about fantasy football. I've already explained the "With Information" thing by telling you about live tiles. Keep in mind that the OS officially came out in October, so we're still going to see some developments and bugs, as well as new apps being created all the time.
 
2012-12-07 11:09:49 AM  

FormlessOne: It's 7 with a few cool improvements (and a new UI that scares the old folks.)


/Hate Windows 8 but can appreciate the attempted logic behind it.
/get off my lawn
 
2012-12-07 11:11:22 AM  

Beta Tested: burndtdan: While I'm glad several third parties have released things that will make the UI more usable, I personally can't get behind an operating system that requires third party software to become functional. It's just a bad idea to have to rely on disparate software sources to make the most fundamental aspect of your computer work the way you want.

If you already have 8, then it's probably the best option. If you have 7, it isn't really a selling point that with third party software, you can make 8 functional.

Windows 8 is MORE functional than 7 without start 8. However, if you don't have a compelling reason to upgrade, then by all means don't upgrade. When you eventually have to (new PC or whatever), it'll be that much better.


That relies heavily on your definition of "functional". I haven't seen anything that actually provides better or more functionality than what I already have, except it booting slightly faster.
 
2012-12-07 11:17:09 AM  
The biggest complaint I find is that people who HATE windows 8 are usually not willing to give up the "Start Menu" and feel that the OS is broken without it. If that's their definition of broken, then yes, it's broken. This article will tell them how to edit their registry so they never see the Metro UI interface on startup and they can get one of those third part programs to bring back their start bar. Or they could just stick with Windows 7, which is also fine.

Or, you could attempt to think about things a little differently and see that change isn't all bad, and this new leap is just a gear shift, and the next iteration of windows will either continue with it, go back to the old ways, or try something completely different again. The point is progress through trial and error, which is how innovation is done. I'm not saying metro UI is perfect, but an attempt by Microsoft to do something different.
 
2012-12-07 11:25:39 AM  

burndtdan: That relies heavily on your definition of "functional". I haven't seen anything that actually provides better or more functionality than what I already have, except it booting slightly faster.


Did you skip most of the thread? There are many, many examples, You should read it again.
 
2012-12-07 11:25:54 AM  

italie: Since you can only display only display one screen at a time, should't it be called "Window 8"?


*spit-take*
*smile*
 
2012-12-07 11:34:33 AM  

meanmutton: moel: Beta Tested: The new start screen is much better than the old start menu. The old start menu was quickly reduced to near uselessness by tons of nested folders obscuring what you were looking for.

Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?

1) Doesn't your mouse have a wheel?
2) Touch screen.


I have a multitouch Apple mouse, i can go in all directions...which is EXACTLY my point....

When i was using the preview, the start screen could go up and down AND left and right...if you've only got one SHIATTY scroll direction on your mouse, what the fark are you meant to do?

I also love everyones 'get a touchscreen laptop' posturing....as if touchscreen on the desktop is the future....your all farking numpties if you think that....go on try it...try and hold your finger up against your laptop screen for more than about 5 minutes....then over the course of an hour try moving your hand between your desk, and the screen...

Unergonomic as fark....

Touch works for tablets because we position them within a radius of about 12 inches from our hands....on the desktop not so much.
 
2012-12-07 11:40:58 AM  

meanmutton: moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.

I just don't use the Metro interface that much except as a start menu replacement. You haven't actually used it, have you?


Like i said i spent 3 weeks in it's company and that was 2 weeks 6 days and 23 hours too long....and you've totally nullified your point, you said 'i don't have to use metro', if your using the start menu, you are using metro!!!!

#idiot
 
2012-12-07 11:45:57 AM  

Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.


Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*
 
2012-12-07 11:50:17 AM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.


No. What I did when I did not want to use Metro was, and stick with me here because it gets pretty complicated, not use Metro. Like, instead of using it, I didn't. Complex, I know, but it works for me.

I did replace the start button out of fear of change, but I haven't used it, either. Seriously. I put the start button back, but haven't felt compelled to use it. Imagine that.

BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!


Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.
 
2012-12-07 11:53:51 AM  

jack21221: Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*


There are plenty of free apps in the store. The pay-for apps are usually very small in cost, much like in the Chrome Store or Apple Store. The point is, the search feature in WIndows 8 is quick, and searches everything to give you what you want.
 
2012-12-07 11:59:55 AM  

thurstonxhowell: No. What I did when I did not want to use Metro was, and stick with me here because it gets pretty complicated, not use Metro. Like, instead of using it, I didn't. Complex, I know, but it works for me.

I did replace the start button out of fear of change, but I haven't used it, either. Seriously. I put the start button back, but haven't felt compelled to use it. Imagine that.


So...how do you access your apps?
 
2012-12-07 12:00:29 PM  
A newspaper article based on someone's blog post? Apple must be employing the same PR firm(s) as the teabaggers...
 
2012-12-07 12:01:14 PM  
jack21221:
Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*


You must have loved buying a new PC for the last decade or so, then. Purging all the preinstalled, naggy pay-to-upgrade bloatware (if you can find it all) is like the last thing I want to do with a shiny new computer, but it has become necessary to reclaim half your RAM and at least a few GB of drive space :(
 
2012-12-07 12:04:30 PM  

red5ish: I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop. I dislike clutter. I use the task bar instead. Now Microsoft has come up with an OS that looks like this:
[img13.imageshack.us image 800x450]
In my opinion, this is very ugly.


If you are using a touchscreen, which is clearly what Windows 8 is geared towards, then a task bar oriented desktop is a horrible, horrible idea.

Windows 8's biggest failing is not the UI itself, but the misuse of it on non-touchscreen implementations. Which is partially Microsoft's fault for introducing/marketing it as a Windows 7 replacement, rather than what they should have done which is to sell it as an OS exclusively for touchscreen-based systems.
 
2012-12-07 12:08:22 PM  

jack21221: Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*


Like it or not, it's the future. 10 years from now 95% of everything you do will be cloud-based, which means advertising, and there's nothing you can do about it. Yes it blows. But I embraced the horror a while back. It's inevitable.
 
2012-12-07 12:27:43 PM  

TranslucentNinja: Windows 8 isn't that bad, I've been using it for months, first with the consumer preview, then the release candidate and finally the full version. I also had a Win7 phone and all of the data that was saved "to the cloud" automatically synced to the PC. Spend a little time using it, watch a couple of the intro videos, and read a few Windows 8 tips. It boots fast, and once on the desktop, it's very similar to Windows 7.


I hate saying "this," but:

This. I was a very early adopter as of the consumer preview as well.

Jesus H. Christ the whinging, moaning, and histrionics from the tech review sites are almost funny in their helplessness. "ERMAHGERD, CHANGE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1!!11"

Metro UI isn't all that great on an actual PC. But, it doesn't take that long for people with a functioning brain to disable the annoying features with scripts or other workarounds, or just adapt and realize that the Metro "start" screen isn't all that different from the Start menu. I'm speaking from the perspective of a minimalist, so I'm always tweaking things anyway (remove until it breaks!), but even my tech-stupid parents figured Windows 8 out in a day or so, Metro UI and all.

Under the hood, it's actually a decent improvement over Windows 7 in a lot of ways. The incredibly crappy old Toshiba laptop I'm on has a 2.0 GHz dual core, 3GB of RAM, and a sad 5,400 RPM hard drive, and it still boots, from power button to desktop, in 14-15 sec. Considering that my custom-built tower with a SSHD takes 8 sec., I found that particularly impressive. Obviously, YMMV, but the fact that Windows works at all on the nearly endless number of PC configurations sometimes creeps into my head as well, a tidbit a lot of people like to either forget about or ignore completely.

One good piece of advice to using Windows 8: learn your Windows key shortcuts, if you don't use them already. I don't particularly miss the Start button anymore.
 
2012-12-07 12:33:14 PM  

thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.


Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?
 
2012-12-07 12:34:19 PM  

jack21221: I have 50 desktop icons on my PC, and I know exactly where everything is. I don't see how "searchable" would be a major benefit, and what do you mean by "with information?" My desktop shortcuts and folders all have names. Is that not information enough?



I assume that you arrange your icons by "Penis".
 
2012-12-07 12:43:05 PM  

Ba'boon: So much uninformed bashing in this thread.

And yes - you can run two apps in a split-screen mode at the same time. And you can have tons of apps open in the background, and switching is super easy. And being able to search your calendar, people, files, apps, music, web, etc. all from the same place is hella convenient.

I love the new remote desktop app - It's like tabs for Remote Desktop. Using the old rdp desktop application now feels like using browsers before they invented tabs.

The calendar/chat notifications are great - even when I'm just working in the desktop. The default weather app is incredible. I've had a little problem with my bluetooth module, but beyond that, this upgrade has been great for me.


Can I have three to five different applications open and visible at the same time? I need AutoCad, Trane Trace, Excel all open at the same time. Plus add in Adobe Acrobat and MS Word to round it out. If I have to stop to decide which two applications I have side by side I will blow a gasket. It goes without saying that I will have a slew of other office programs open (Outlook, PBX outlook phone tie, Equipment sizing and selection software, etc)
 
2012-12-07 12:44:35 PM  
Sounds to me that Windows 8 can be customized to be usable. Every version of windows has needed some customization out of the box to be less stupid. For instance fading or moving menus. Why anyone would want to wait .2 seconds to see a menu that they could otherwise see instantly baffles me. It takes me about 40 minutes to set up windows 7 to be fast and efficient. Took about 20 to get XP working right. So I would assume Windows 8 takes about an hour and a half or less to make look right and work well. As long as it doesn't add any clicks to any navigation processes or any wait time to any function and the interface uses almost zero resources I'll be okay with it.
 
2012-12-07 12:50:59 PM  

No Such Agency: You must have loved buying a new PC for the last decade or so, then. Purging all the preinstalled, naggy pay-to-upgrade bloatware (if you can find it all) is like the last thing I want to do with a shiny new computer, but it has become necessary to reclaim half your RAM and at least a few GB of drive space :(


Ha! Yeah, it's the first order of business when buying any new computer. Had to do that with the girlfriend's computer too.

Da Bum: I assume that you arrange your icons by "Penis".


Nah, just filling the left half of the screen, with the icons I use most in the rightmost column, and the "defaults" in the leftmost column (my computer, control panel, documents, network, recycle bin, etc).

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Windows 8's biggest failing is not the UI itself, but the misuse of it on non-touchscreen implementations. Which is partially Microsoft's fault for introducing/marketing it as a Windows 7 replacement, rather than what they should have done which is to sell it as an OS exclusively for touchscreen-based systems.


This is my biggest problem with it. I'm not quite ready to buy a new computer, but in the next year or two, I'll have to. When I buy a new computer, I want the option to still install Windows 7. My fear is that nobody will be selling anything with Windows 7 on it, and I'll be forced into buying Windows 8. I don't use any of the shiny new bells and whistles that people are talking about on here (no touchscreen, no social media, no songs on my computer, etc), so I don't want to have to wade through all this stuff I don't use. Windows 7 is clearly the best option for me, but Microsoft seems to be trying to cram Windows 8 and its tablet PC UI down everybody's throats. When Windows 7 came out, Vista all but vanished overnight; all new PCs seemed to use Windows 7 instead. I am afraid that will happen to Windows 7 now that 8 is out.
 
2012-12-07 12:55:12 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Minktastic Mink!: Microsoft redeemed themselves with Windows 7 by making their best OS since 3.1. Now they insult their users by making what is essentially At Ease for System 7. Yuck.

Y'know, Windows 7 got a lot of bashing too. I still strongly disdain a lot of the things they did with it. I've switched to almost exclusively using netsh to control networking because it irritates me that they've buried the interfaces under four or five other screens and I still couldn't tell you to this day how to get to the file/folder settings that used to be so conveniently placed in a menu on explorer... you know... where you'd be anyway if you needed to change those things. And forget networked printers. I've given up trying to install them in any way but creating a new IP port and using the Have Disk option because half the time you just wind up sitting at that stupid Windows Update prompt waiting for 10 minutes for it to fail to find a driver on the assumption that you're too dumb to browse to one yourself.

Personally, I think Windows XP SP2/3 was the last good Microsoft OS. Windows 7 was tolerable because it added a lot of features, but it also pisses me off that they moved so much shiat around for no reason and forced the search bar on you as a replacement for clear and well-labeled menus.

They've been trying to go the Apple idiotization route ever since Vista. Windows 8 is just the biggest leap in the direction of computing-for-tards so it's the one that gets the most hellfire. Vista and 7 were pretty stupid too, though, in their own rights.


I know I'm going to come off sounding like an evangelist here, and that isn't my intent. However... why not use Linux? The KDE desktop is Windows 7-like, XFCE feels like a polished XP (including a better implementation of nested menus than MS ever had), GNOME Shell and Unity are more like Win 8, but you might still like them better.
 
2012-12-07 12:56:32 PM  

jack21221: This is my biggest problem with it. I'm not quite ready to buy a new computer, but in the next year or two, I'll have to. When I buy a new computer, I want the option to still install Windows 7. My fear is that nobody will be selling anything with Windows 7 on it, and I'll be forced into buying Windows 8. I don't use any of the shiny new bells and whistles that people are talking about on here (no touchscreen, no social media, no songs on my computer, etc), so I don't want to have to wade through all this stuff I don't use. Windows 7 is clearly the best option for me, but Microsoft seems to be trying to cram Windows 8 and its tablet PC UI down everybody's throats. When Windows 7 came out, Vista all but vanished overnight; all new PCs seemed to use Windows 7 instead. I am afraid that will happen to Windows 7 now that 8 is out.


I guess you just don't like reading or listening other opinions. As I, and others mentioned, Windows 8 is AS GOOD AS or better than Windows 7 (depending on your needs), it is in no way worse. It is unlikely to be worth the price and aggravation of an upgrade for you, but when buying a new computer there is no compelling reason to NOT get it other than being obstinate.
 
2012-12-07 01:02:10 PM  

Elfich: Ba'boon: So much uninformed bashing in this thread.

And yes - you can run two apps in a split-screen mode at the same time. And you can have tons of apps open in the background, and switching is super easy. And being able to search your calendar, people, files, apps, music, web, etc. all from the same place is hella convenient.

I love the new remote desktop app - It's like tabs for Remote Desktop. Using the old rdp desktop application now feels like using browsers before they invented tabs.

The calendar/chat notifications are great - even when I'm just working in the desktop. The default weather app is incredible. I've had a little problem with my bluetooth module, but beyond that, this upgrade has been great for me.

Can I have three to five different applications open and visible at the same time? I need AutoCad, Trane Trace, Excel all open at the same time. Plus add in Adobe Acrobat and MS Word to round it out. If I have to stop to decide which two applications I have side by side I will blow a gasket. It goes without saying that I will have a slew of other office programs open (Outlook, PBX outlook phone tie, Equipment sizing and selection software, etc)


Yes. The desktop behaves exactly as in Vista/7, and you can have as many windows open as your heart desires. AutoCAD, etc., won't be metro apps anyway.

If you're really using that many apps, you probably have multiple monitors. One major improvement in W8 is better multi-mon support, specifically more customization options about app launching, the desktop, and the taskbar on your other monitors. For example, your taskbar on your second monitor can show all windows, or only the ones on that monitor, and can show custom toolbars or not.
 
2012-12-07 01:05:17 PM  
Alexei Novikov:
The incredibly crappy old Toshiba laptop I'm on has a 2.0 GHz dual core, 3GB of RAM, and a sad 5,400 RPM hard drive, and it still boots, from power button to desktop, in 14-15 sec.

People on the internet make me laugh. If your laptop has dual core and multiple GB of RAM, it's not "incredibly crappy [and] old". It's a few years old and still works fine from the sounds of it.

If you're still adding the SET BLASTER= line into your autoexec.bat file by hand, then maybe we can talk "incredibly" old ;)
 
2012-12-07 01:14:03 PM  

Deuterium: I hate Windows 8. I've never used it myself, but I've read enough online reviews to know I should hate it.


Worst part about it? Not NEARLY coffee-shop friendly enough.
 
2012-12-07 01:23:42 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: red5ish: I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop. I dislike clutter. I use the task bar instead. Now Microsoft has come up with an OS that looks like this:
[img13.imageshack.us image 800x450]
In my opinion, this is very ugly.

If you are using a touchscreen, which is clearly what Windows 8 is geared towards, then a task bar oriented desktop is a horrible, horrible idea.

Windows 8's biggest failing is not the UI itself, but the misuse of it on non-touchscreen implementations. Which is partially Microsoft's fault for introducing/marketing it as a Windows 7 replacement, rather than what they should have done which is to sell it as an OS exclusively for touchscreen-based systems.


Yeah, if they wanted to just make mutant Chromebook/iPad combo thing with this on it, then fine. (Isn't that what "Windows RT" is anyways?) But making this as the next desktop OS was amazingly stupid.
 
2012-12-07 01:31:16 PM  

jack21221: WhippingBoy: Windows 8 isn't that bad.

You realize that this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, right? By all accounts, Windows 7 was "really good," and here you're saying Windows 8 "isn't that bad." So why would anybody choose windows 8 over windows 7?

Actually, I'm going to leave that as a standing question to everybody. What benefits does Windows 8 have over Windows 7?


By "not that bad", it means it's an incremental improvement over 7. Just a list of things Windows 8 does better:

1. Significantly less resource usage than 7
2. Storage spaces - love love love this
3. Restrictions on what can become a boot process - i.e. you won't have everyone from Adobe to that guy's activeX app your mom clicked on launching themselves at startup (this is the biggest reason most computers become slower over time).
4. Restrictions on background processes - no more applications installing random stuff as a system service, they all run as user (subject to resource restrictions).
5. Significantly smaller HD footprint.
6. Device interrupt coalescing -- in a mobile device (tablet, for instance) it won't wake up for any random PCI device that wants to do something. Instead, it queues up all of that and wakes up the CPU (and associated bus systems) in short bursts to service multiple devices. This is a significant power optimization.

All in all, they did a significant amount of work to make it feasible to run on low-level tablet hardware (less RAM, limited HD space, less processing power) with battery life in mind. And by all measurable means, they've done a good job.

But yes, by all means, biatch about the "colors"
 
2012-12-07 01:33:28 PM  

FormlessOne: Old enough to know better: I've watched youtube videos of 8 in action and honestly I don't get all the hate. Doesn't seem that horrible.

Still not getting it of course. Not really enough of an improvement over 7 to justify the cost.

If you have 7 on an existing machine, keep 7 - if you're getting a new machine, get 8. That's really where the money is at present for them, as there's no pressing need to upgrade from 7. It's 7 with a few cool improvements (and a new UI that scares the old folks.)


It is not just a new UI. There are a significant amount of features that are just plain gone or are extremely tedious to reach. If your computer usage consists of install application or game. Use/play application game. Surf web. Then sure, there is not much to complain about. If you actually have to troubleshoot / debug problems within the OS it is nothing short of a complete pain in the arse.
 
2012-12-07 01:37:59 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: why not use Linux


Active directory and exchange remote management.

My primary machine runs debian, but I still have a Windows 7, soon to be 8, VM that I run so I can use the various AD DS and Exchange snap-ins and command line tools without having to remote to ab actual domain controller (which is Core anyway so I'd have to do everything in powershell).
 
2012-12-07 01:38:12 PM  
OK, stupid question.

I normally have a Win 7 workstation, plenty of horsepower. I have 2 large monitors (23 each) and I have 6 or 7 applications up running across them displaying network stats or server metrics in real-time. Plus LookOut! and a browser or two as well.

Does 8 support this? All I seem to have read so far seems to indicate two monitors means two running apps. That would be a non-starter for me.

(Doesn't have a copy of 8 to try)
 
2012-12-07 01:38:34 PM  

imgod2u: jack21221: WhippingBoy: Windows 8 isn't that bad.

You realize that this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, right? By all accounts, Windows 7 was "really good," and here you're saying Windows 8 "isn't that bad." So why would anybody choose windows 8 over windows 7?

Actually, I'm going to leave that as a standing question to everybody. What benefits does Windows 8 have over Windows 7?

By "not that bad", it means it's an incremental improvement over 7. Just a list of things Windows 8 does better:

1. Significantly less resource usage than 7
2. Storage spaces - love love love this
3. Restrictions on what can become a boot process - i.e. you won't have everyone from Adobe to that guy's activeX app your mom clicked on launching themselves at startup (this is the biggest reason most computers become slower over time).
4. Restrictions on background processes - no more applications installing random stuff as a system service, they all run as user (subject to resource restrictions).
5. Significantly smaller HD footprint.
6. Device interrupt coalescing -- in a mobile device (tablet, for instance) it won't wake up for any random PCI device that wants to do something. Instead, it queues up all of that and wakes up the CPU (and associated bus systems) in short bursts to service multiple devices. This is a significant power optimization.

All in all, they did a significant amount of work to make it feasible to run on low-level tablet hardware (less RAM, limited HD space, less processing power) with battery life in mind. And by all measurable means, they've done a good job.

But yes, by all means, biatch about the "colors"


There were several things in there that I had not heard about, as most tech mags are focusing on some tips and the UI biatching, but a lot of those are good talking points for OS optimization.
 
2012-12-07 01:40:10 PM  

xaks: OK, stupid question.

I normally have a Win 7 workstation, plenty of horsepower. I have 2 large monitors (23 each) and I have 6 or 7 applications up running across them displaying network stats or server metrics in real-time. Plus LookOut! and a browser or two as well.

Does 8 support this? All I seem to have read so far seems to indicate two monitors means two running apps. That would be a non-starter for me.

(Doesn't have a copy of 8 to try)


Yes, you can still do all of that. When they say 'Two Apps for Multimonitors" they're talking about the Metro UI apps, that are essentially built for fullscreen viewing, as if you were on a tablet. Regular x86/x64 programs still work on Windows 8, and in desktop environment, you can have as many open as you want.
 
2012-12-07 02:07:40 PM  

BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.

Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?


I like how we're automatically shills.
 
2012-12-07 02:08:26 PM  
I understand why both OS X and Windows have been pushing for more apps to be run fullscreen: for single-tasking, it's without question the most efficient use of screen real estate. But it's a usability problem for multi-tasking, and the Metro concept of main window + sidebar isn't flexible enough.

Letting the user position windows to single-pixel precision benefits the OS more than it benefits the user, and overlapping windows are a vestigial skeumorphism from the days when a business process required moving pieces of paper from one stack to another.

So what's the solution? A tiled interface where you define your panels' positions relative to each other and the system sizes them to occupy the available space has promise, but Eclipse users can attest that this idea has problems if the panel arrangement features are not clear.
 
2012-12-07 02:13:34 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: why not use Linux

Active directory and exchange remote management.

My primary machine runs debian, but I still have a Windows 7, soon to be 8, VM that I run so I can use the various AD DS and Exchange snap-ins and command line tools without having to remote to ab actual domain controller (which is Core anyway so I'd have to do everything in powershell).


Same as my setup (Debian as primary OS, Windows in a VM). I figured most Farkers would have (at least) played with Linux at some point. You didn't include Linux in your previous post (only Windows and OSX), so I thought it was worth mentioning as an option.
 
2012-12-07 02:13:51 PM  

poot_rootbeer: I understand why both OS X and Windows have been pushing for more apps to be run fullscreen: for single-tasking, it's without question the most efficient use of screen real estate. But it's a usability problem for multi-tasking, and the Metro concept of main window + sidebar isn't flexible enough.

Letting the user position windows to single-pixel precision benefits the OS more than it benefits the user, and overlapping windows are a vestigial skeumorphism from the days when a business process required moving pieces of paper from one stack to another.

So what's the solution? A tiled interface where you define your panels' positions relative to each other and the system sizes them to occupy the available space has promise, but Eclipse users can attest that this idea has problems if the panel arrangement features are not clear.


Yes, but you're also just looking at Metro Apps themselves. You aren't thinking about Excel workbooks or Word Documents or Outlook emails. Those are still all on the desktop and still are able to be repositioned, overlapped, moved, resized, ect.
 
2012-12-07 02:43:42 PM  

Marine1: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.

Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

I like how we're automatically shills.


Seriously. I like Windows 8. Where's my check, Microsoft? What the hell?

The Win8 UI is seriously just farking fine and even if it wasn't, the performance upgrade (and hard disk space reclamation) from ditching Vista is still totally worth the money. Metro is optional and it's completely unobtrusive. Once you clean up the irrational and cluttered default apps (why the hell did MS just throw a bunch of stuff on there without organizing it into groups, when that's an easily available function in the Metro UI?!) and unpin the stuff you don't want, the Start screen is brilliant. It's a perfect hybrid between desktop icons and quicklaunch bar.

And the desktop shell is gorgeous. No more frilly gradients and faux-glass stuff trying to copy OSX. Just simple, clear, easy-to-identify icons, solid colors, readable fonts, and a minimalist look that takes everything that was good about Windows 95 and updates it for the 21st century.

The one and only problem I've had so far is there's not an easy shortcut to close a Metro app (you can tab out of them or go to the desktop, and close from there, but you can't close an app from within that app, that I can find). But that's only a problem for Metro stuff, which I barely use at all.

Need a file/program you didn't pin? Just type its name in the Start screen or hit Win+Q from the desktop to search (or mouse to the upper-right corner and then click the search icon). System management tools? Right click in the lower left corner, you get a menu with task manager, disk management, control panel, etc. Want to see all your apps at once? Right-click on the start screen and click "all apps".

Shut down? There's a dozen ways to do that, all of them simple: Tap the power button on your machine. Or mouse to the upper right corner, hit the settings icon, hit the power icon. Or type ctrl-alt-delete, then hit the power icon. Type alt-F4 on the desktop. Go to the start screen, sign out from your user account, click the lock screen, hit the power icon on the sign-in screen. Or hit Win+L to get to the lock screen and shut down from there.
 
2012-12-07 02:54:24 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: The one and only problem I've had so far is there's not an easy shortcut to close a Metro app (you can tab out of them or go to the desktop, and close from there, but you can't close an app from within that app, that I can find). But that's only a problem for Metro stuff, which I barely use at all.


Move your mouse to the top of the screen and your cursor should change to a hand. Now grab the app and pull down, and this will close the app. You can also pull it off to either side to dock it, but you were asking about closing. Also Alt+F4 works to close the current app.
 
2012-12-07 02:56:30 PM  

Celerian: The biggest complaint I find is that people who HATE windows 8 are usually not willing to give up the "Start Menu" and feel that the OS is broken without it.


It's not broken, but it is jarring to have to switch to a totally different UI. The bigger problem for me is W8 takes the fashionable trend of hiding UI elements to the extreme. I HATE that. I even hate it in Chrome and IE and Firefox, when you use the default settings and nearly everything is hidden. Look, i have huge, high resolution screens, I don't need to save a little space with the tradeoff being I have to remember where to tickle the farking screen to bring up some UI elements.

Plus the flat boring design sucks ass. Aero glass is nice. I can turn it off myself if I'm running on a slow box, or use W7 embedded. I don't need to be brought to the lowest common denominator by default. fark's sake, should I put up with that crap on an i7 with monster graphics card? Does MS expect every vendor to boring-up their UI to be consistent with the new Windows?

Or, you could attempt to think about things a little differently and see that change isn't all bad

You're right. Ubuntu, for example, isn't bad at all. We have to write some drivers from scratch, but we'll save a bunch on licensing. I turned down my guys every time they brought up any linux distro until now, because windows was easy and it worked fine for us, but W8 opened my eyes that change is good.
 
2012-12-07 02:58:16 PM  

Beta Tested:
I guess you just don't like reading or listening other opinions. As I, and others mentioned, Windows 8 is AS GOOD AS or better than Windows 7 (depending on your needs), it is in no way worse. It is unlikely to be worth the price and aggravation of an upgrade for you, but when buying a new computer there is no compelling reason to NOT get it other than being obstinate.


Sure there is: It would take a lot of customization and 3rd party programs to bring the UI back to what I'm used to. All of the Windows 8 "new stuff" is stuff that I'm not interested in and would have to take my time working around.

imgod2u: All in all, they did a significant amount of work to make it feasible to run on low-level tablet hardware (less RAM, limited HD space, less processing power) with battery life in mind. And by all measurable means, they've done a good job.


I don't doubt they've done a good job to make it work well on tablets. I don't own a tablet. I don't own a laptop. I use desktop PCs, and Microsoft seems to have forgotten those exist.
 
2012-12-07 03:04:02 PM  
I finally got around to installing it. I do like some things about it, other things I don't like. Then there's little nits that make me feel like Windows 8 was half-baked and rushed out the door. This is for a desktop user.

1) If you make the window borders a dark color you can't see the text displayed in the borders anymore; they decided to make the text black... and you can't change it. The solution is to go to one of the awful high contrast settings. I don't get it though. Why put in an option that adjusts the color of the windows border but then forget to put in an option to change the text color?

2) Double click on an image. A photo app launches with the image displayed. Want to go to the next image located in the same folder? Just press the arrow like you always did. Nope, there's no arrow. You first have to add the folder to the Pictures library for anything to work properly in the photo app. So there it is, want to go to the next image? Go through the hassle of adding it to the library or close, reopen the app. The solution is to change the default program that interacts with images which brings me to my next point.

3) The apps suck. There's little or no customization to be had. The only app that didn't suck was the weather one. I unpinned all the others.

4) Why can't you use an image you want as the background on the Start screen? Why can't you change the image used on the Start screen tiles? Why are you stuck with large ugly squares with a tiny program icon in the middle? I've since found a program that allows you to do just that but I wonder.

If these were the FIRST things I tried to do with Windows 8 how did it ever get past the usability testing phase?

I don't mind the Start screen so much. I just let it be the screen where I dump what once were shortcuts on my desktop, allowing me to keep the desktop 'clean."
 
2012-12-07 03:13:13 PM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: No. What I did when I did not want to use Metro was, and stick with me here because it gets pretty complicated, not use Metro. Like, instead of using it, I didn't. Complex, I know, but it works for me.

I did replace the start button out of fear of change, but I haven't used it, either. Seriously. I put the start button back, but haven't felt compelled to use it. Imagine that.

So...how do you access your apps?


They're pinned to the taskbar. If its not pinned to the taskbar, I go over to the search thing and search for it. It works pretty much like Searchlight a Mac. If you're talking about Metro Apps, I don't use them, so I don't need to access them.

BullBearMS: Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?


Hey, idiot, I'll repeat myself (paraphrased): I don't give half a shiat what you do or what you think. I was just trying to correct the factual error you made.
 
2012-12-07 03:20:38 PM  
Clouds of change sweep overhead.
Old men wave their fists and yell.
Dogs bark, and the caravan moves on.
 
2012-12-07 03:22:30 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Celerian: The biggest complaint I find is that people who HATE windows 8 are usually not willing to give up the "Start Menu" and feel that the OS is broken without it.

It's not broken, but it is jarring to have to switch to a totally different UI. The bigger problem for me is W8 takes the fashionable trend of hiding UI elements to the extreme. I HATE that. I even hate it in Chrome and IE and Firefox, when you use the default settings and nearly everything is hidden. Look, i have huge, high resolution screens, I don't need to save a little space with the tradeoff being I have to remember where to tickle the farking screen to bring up some UI elements.

Plus the flat boring design sucks ass. Aero glass is nice. I can turn it off myself if I'm running on a slow box, or use W7 embedded. I don't need to be brought to the lowest common denominator by default. fark's sake, should I put up with that crap on an i7 with monster graphics card? Does MS expect every vendor to boring-up their UI to be consistent with the new Windows?

Or, you could attempt to think about things a little differently and see that change isn't all bad

You're right. Ubuntu, for example, isn't bad at all. We have to write some drivers from scratch, but we'll save a bunch on licensing. I turned down my guys every time they brought up any linux distro until now, because windows was easy and it worked fine for us, but W8 opened my eyes that change is good.


I agree, it was a jarring switch and I don't advocate anyone to make the leap to 8 unless they are prepared for a learning curve as steep as the effort you put into rethinking how you normally use a computer.

I also would have preferred to be able to use AeroGlass. Apparently the design team at Microsoft felt that making their chrome and boarders look like faux-glass was out of style, but I liked that style a lot. I still hope that maybe if enough of the users request it to come back in it might make a reappearance. Hopefully along with text changes, because sometimes things can be a little hard to see.

And no Ubuntu isn't bad. If it works for you, use it. The important part is the tool services your needs. I'm not hating on all of Windows 8. There are things I do and don't like about it, but I feel the need to at least try and clarify some of the things that people are saying because a lot of it just isn't true. Windows 8 is still a solid operating system underneath that Andy Warhol paint job.
 
2012-12-07 03:22:32 PM  

thurstonxhowell: moel: thurstonxhowell: No. What I did when I did not want to use Metro was, and stick with me here because it gets pretty complicated, not use Metro. Like, instead of using it, I didn't. Complex, I know, but it works for me.

I did replace the start button out of fear of change, but I haven't used it, either. Seriously. I put the start button back, but haven't felt compelled to use it. Imagine that.

So...how do you access your apps?

They're pinned to the taskbar. If its not pinned to the taskbar, I go over to the search thing and search for it. It works pretty much like Searchlight a Mac. If you're talking about Metro Apps, I don't use them, so I don't need to access them.

BullBearMS: Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

Hey, idiot, I'll repeat myself (paraphrased): I don't give half a shiat what you do or what you think. I was just trying to correct the factual error you made.


don't even bother with it. it's his M.O. check out his winning personality in this thread. Link 
or this one.
Link
If it doesn't have fruit on it, it will get slammed.
 
2012-12-07 03:31:34 PM  

olapbill: don't even bother with it. it's his M.O. check out his winning personality in this thread. Link 
or this one.
Link
If it doesn't have fruit on it, it will get slammed.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure I remember him being a jackass in the Politics tab, too. Oh well, that's why God Drew made ignore lists.
 
2012-12-07 03:53:16 PM  

meanmutton: Bacontastesgood: It's funny to see the people defending this turd. This is the pivot toward irrelevance for MS. They had a pretty good run - over 25 years of dominance on desktops and notebooks. Xbox will still be pretty good to them, and Office in some form. But the next 5 years will be exceedingly brutal in the OS space. There will be vast numbers of "what happened" articles written.

It's funny seeing Luddites who haven't spent any time with a touch-screen computer and Windows 8 knee-jerk bash what will be seen in a few years as revolutionary technology.


Touchscreens are perhaps one of the worst creations of all time.
Mouse and Keyboard forever, anything else? It's just child's play.
 
2012-12-07 04:06:29 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: styckx: The Windows 8 hate is mildly annoying at this point. The media is trying extremely too hard to make it sound like Vista.

hahahaha... omg.... wait....{cough}... damn dude, not so early in the morning!

Vista was the bomb compared to 8... and Vista sucked ass hardcore, but at least it didn't change what it meant to have a computer.

Change everything around so nobody can find a damn thing? CHECK
Make sure nobody can run more than one app at a time? CHECK
Make sure that all previous users can't upgrade anything without a dog and pony show? CHECK
Turn ordinary PCs into useless boat anchors by making them Tablets without Touchscreens? CHECK


Yup... it's got everything going for it. I have no idea what I'm talking about at all.

 
2012-12-07 04:21:46 PM  
Yeah, but most people aren't MIT professors, they are dimwitted morons, so Win 8 is perfect for them.
 
2012-12-07 05:06:29 PM  

jack21221: Beta Tested:
I guess you just don't like reading or listening other opinions. As I, and others mentioned, Windows 8 is AS GOOD AS or better than Windows 7 (depending on your needs), it is in no way worse. It is unlikely to be worth the price and aggravation of an upgrade for you, but when buying a new computer there is no compelling reason to NOT get it other than being obstinate.

Sure there is: It would take a lot of customization and 3rd party programs to bring the UI back to what I'm used to. All of the Windows 8 "new stuff" is stuff that I'm not interested in and would have to take my time working around.

imgod2u: All in all, they did a significant amount of work to make it feasible to run on low-level tablet hardware (less RAM, limited HD space, less processing power) with battery life in mind. And by all measurable means, they've done a good job.

I don't doubt they've done a good job to make it work well on tablets. I don't own a tablet. I don't own a laptop. I use desktop PCs, and Microsoft seems to have forgotten those exist.


Well, look at the market. Desktops are a small minority. More importantly, there's really not much that can be improved on the desktop anymore.

That isn't to say Windows 8 isn't a better OS and completely worthy of praise. Just that it may not be worth upgrading fkr desktop users.

But I would think even desktop users would appreciate the heightened restrictions against bloatware and lower system resource utilization.
 
2012-12-07 05:39:36 PM  

Marine1: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.

Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

I like how we're automatically shills.


Since I've seen you claim that Windows Phone 7 "has momentum", in your case it's entirely an accurate statement.
 
2012-12-07 05:41:18 PM  

No Such Agency: Alexei Novikov:
The incredibly crappy old Toshiba laptop I'm on has a 2.0 GHz dual core, 3GB of RAM, and a sad 5,400 RPM hard drive, and it still boots, from power button to desktop, in 14-15 sec.

People on the internet make me laugh. If your laptop has dual core and multiple GB of RAM, it's not "incredibly crappy [and] old". It's a few years old and still works fine from the sounds of it.

If you're still adding the SET BLASTER= line into your autoexec.bat file by hand, then maybe we can talk "incredibly" old ;)


I didn't think I had to qualify that statement with a "relatively," but apparently its omission is a sin. Mea culpa.

It is a relatively old and crappy laptop. I was trying to illustrate the not insignificant performance gains by switching to Windows 8. If you already have a powerful, up-to-date system, the difference will be present but minimal. If you have older machines around (read: anything marginally capable of running Vista or better, not antique dinosaur get-off-my-lawn machines), the difference is much more noticeable and may be worth the upgrade on its own. I cant be the only person around who has a powerful tower but prefers budget or older mid-range laptops that aren't trying to poorly imitate powerful towers with abysmal cooling.
 
2012-12-07 05:45:19 PM  

thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

Hey, idiot, I'll repeat myself (paraphrased): I don't give half a shiat what you do or what you think. I was just trying to correct the factual error you made.


Look farktard.

If Microsoft cared about the user experience, they would make all the Metro smartphone interface bullshiat optional on the desktop.

There is no error in that statement.

Microsoft cares more about trying to leverage Windows to break into the tablet and smartphone markets than it cares about it's users.
 
2012-12-07 06:18:39 PM  

BullBearMS: Marine1: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.

Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

I like how we're automatically shills.

Since I've seen you claim that Windows Phone 7 "has momentum", in your case it's entirely an accurate statement.


Then Microsoft is horrifically late on their payments to my account.

I mean, with you guys, it's like freakin' politics. You've read so much crap (and that's what it is, crap) that more or less boils down to "it's unpossible to enjoy the use of a Microsoft product", and you've begun to believe it.

As for the smartphone market, hey, if you guys want two and only two major players in that market, be my guest. I mean, duopolies have done wonders for the telecommunications market, so why not extend that to the devices that operate on the networks?

That's what we're speeding towards. We have a possible third player, but moronic pundit after moronic pundit keeps casting Microsoft out, often for stupid or even non-existent reasons. Josh Topolsky and Co. over at The Verge sure as hell do it.
 
2012-12-07 06:50:41 PM  
Nothing i've read says that my games will be any better switching to 8 vs 7

Call me when it makes a difference i'll drop $$$ for.
 
2012-12-07 07:02:25 PM  
Eh?

Only metro apps are restricted to one or two open at a time?

But office, browsers, and 'normal' x86/a64 apps work and function as we are accustomed?

...

WTF. If that's the case, then why demand I even USE the gorram app store and the shiatty looking metro ui? That just screams retarded.

If that's the case, I'll definitely give it a whirl, I'm not sure its worth a reinstall now but I may consider it for my next rebuild.

Thanks, Fark!
 
2012-12-07 07:04:16 PM  

Marine1: BullBearMS: Marine1: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.

Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

I like how we're automatically shills.

Since I've seen you claim that Windows Phone 7 "has momentum", in your case it's entirely an accurate statement.

Then Microsoft is horrifically late on their payments to my account.

I mean, with you guys, it's like freakin' politics. You've read so much crap (and that's what it is, crap) that more or less boils down to "it's unpossible to enjoy the use of a Microsoft product", and you've begun to believe it.

As for the smartphone market, hey, if you guys want two and only two major players in that market, be my guest. I mean, duopolies have done wonders for the telecommunications market, so why not extend that to the devices that operate on the networks?

That's what we're speeding towards. We have a possible third player, but moronic pundit after moronic pundit keeps casting Microsoft out, often for stupid or even non-existent reasons. Josh Topolsky and Co. over at The Verge sure as hell do it.


Microsoft's arrogant disregard of it's users best interests will be what leads to the company's downfall, not the pundits.

Shipping a brand new flagship phone full well knowing the new upgraded Phone OS they are about to release will never run on it? Shafting their early adopters with obsolete hardware with no upgrade path on a two year (at least) contract?

That shows nothing but contempt for their customers.

Forcing a tablet interface on desktop computer users throwing away nearly two decades of investment into training?

That shows nothing but contempt for their customers.
 
2012-12-07 07:36:19 PM  

BullBearMS: Marine1: BullBearMS: Marine1: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.

Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?

I like how we're automatically shills.

Since I've seen you claim that Windows Phone 7 "has momentum", in your case it's entirely an accurate statement.

Then Microsoft is horrifically late on their payments to my account.

I mean, with you guys, it's like freakin' politics. You've read so much crap (and that's what it is, crap) that more or less boils down to "it's unpossible to enjoy the use of a Microsoft product", and you've begun to believe it.

As for the smartphone market, hey, if you guys want two and only two major players in that market, be my guest. I mean, duopolies have done wonders for the telecommunications market, so why not extend that to the devices that operate on the networks?

That's what we're speeding towards. We have a possible third player, but moronic pundit after moronic pundit keeps casting Microsoft out, often for stupid or even non-existent reasons. Josh Topolsky and Co. over at The Verge sure as hell do it.

Microsoft's arrogant disregard of it's users best interests will be what leads to the company's downfall, not the pundits.

Shipping a brand new flagship phone full well knowing the new upgraded Phone OS they are about to release will never run on it? Shafting their early adopters with obsolete hardware with no upgrade path on a two year (at least) contract?

That shows nothing but contempt for their customers.

Forcing a tablet interface on desktop computer users throwing ...


It's not without an upgrade path. There's another build, 7.8, coming out Q1 2013. Nokia has indicated there may be even more than that afterwards, but that's just speculation at this point.

Changing things around isn't contempt for your users. It's not that hard to adapt to. I mean, really, like if you were to get so upset that you switched to something like Linux Mint or Mac OS X, you'd be exerting far more effort than just getting used to the new Start screen. And, by the way, it's not completely a tablet interface. You can still use the desktop... it's still there. Hell, I did some work in Adobe AfterEffects CS 6 just this afternoon on my desktop... and it's running Windows 8. It opens in the desktop application, it saves in the desktop application, it does everything in the desktop application. It's not like they took every Win32 API program ever made and told you that you would do without.

I'm taking special effects/programming/networking classes at my university, do Kinect for Windows development, and have dipped my toes in 3D modeling as a hobby... all using two or three Windows 8 PCs. If anyone could biatch about the new interface hurting productivity, it's me. Yet, here I am, still working with multiple windows on a desktop, just like I have done since my dad first showed me his new IBM Aptiva in 1995.
 
2012-12-07 07:41:37 PM  

BullBearMS: Shipping a brand new flagship phone full well knowing the new upgraded Phone OS they are about to release will never run on it? Shafting their early adopters with obsolete hardware with no upgrade path on a two year (at least) contract?


img811.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-07 07:43:11 PM  
How dare you call me a shill!

Now stand back and give me room to shill in!

It would have cost Microsoft nothing to allow users to turn Metro off if they don't like it.

Apple added behaviors from iOS to it's desktop OS as well, but every single one of those behaviors is optional and can be turned on or off in the Control Panel.

As for releasing a new flagship phone knowing full well the new version of the OS you are about to release will never run on it? The fact that you defend this behavior puts that whole "am I a Microsoft shill" question to rest.
 
2012-12-07 07:51:22 PM  

xaks: OK, stupid question.

I normally have a Win 7 workstation, plenty of horsepower. I have 2 large monitors (23 each) and I have 6 or 7 applications up running across them displaying network stats or server metrics in real-time. Plus LookOut! and a browser or two as well.

Does 8 support this? All I seem to have read so far seems to indicate two monitors means two running apps. That would be a non-starter for me.

(Doesn't have a copy of 8 to try)


Yes. The desktop is identical to Win7 minus the start menu and plus some small improvements. You can have as many programs open as you want.
 
2012-12-07 07:55:29 PM  

BullBearMS: How dare you call me a shill!

Now stand back and give me room to shill in!

It would have cost Microsoft nothing to allow users to turn Metro off if they don't like it.

Apple added behaviors from iOS to it's desktop OS as well, but every single one of those behaviors is optional and can be turned on or off in the Control Panel.

As for releasing a new flagship phone knowing full well the new version of the OS you are about to release will never run on it? The fact that you defend this behavior puts that whole "am I a Microsoft shill" question to rest.


Uh huh. Cost nothing... software engineers cost nothing. Their time is free, especially when implementing an older version of the exact same thing they're releasing in their current software.

I'll be sure to let the payroll department at Microsoft know that right after I ask them for my shill money that they've owed me all of these years. Boy howdy, have those guys been getting hosed by their own employees or what?

And I don't think you know what the term "upgrade path" means. The Lumia 900 does indeed have one. Here it is. Video Teaser of Windows Phone 7.8 Update on Nokia Lumia 900
 
2012-12-07 08:15:40 PM  

Da Bum: #3 Shutting down the PC is easy to do, you are just lazy or don't know how to do it the right way because you can't unlearn how horribly clunky it really was in prior versions.


Post the steps to shut down or reboot or log out of Windows 8.
 
2012-12-07 08:21:40 PM  

jack21221: This is my biggest problem with it. I'm not quite ready to buy a new computer, but in the next year or two, I'll have to. When I buy a new computer, I want the option to still install Windows 7. My fear is that nobody will be selling anything with Windows 7 on it, and I'll be forced into buying Windows 8. I don't use any of the shiny new bells and whistles that people are talking about on here (no touchscreen, no social media, no songs on my computer, etc), so I don't want to have to wade through all this stuff I don't use. Windows 7 is clearly the best option for me, but Microsoft seems to be trying to cram Windows 8 and its tablet PC UI down everybody's throats. When Windows 7 came out, Vista all but vanished overnight; all new PCs seemed to use Windows 7 instead. I am afraid that will happen to Windows 7 now that 8 is out.


Build your PC.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: jack21221: Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*

Like it or not, it's the future. 10 years from now 95% of everything you do will be cloud-based, which means advertising, and there's nothing you can do about it. Yes it blows. But I embraced the horror a while back. It's inevitable.


NO. I will never allow myself to jump into the cloud. Ten years from now, I'll still be computing locally, come hell or highwater.
 
2012-12-07 08:22:29 PM  

Celerian: The biggest complaint I find is that people who HATE windows 8 are usually not willing to give up the "Start Menu" and feel that the OS is broken without it. If that's their definition of broken, then yes, it's broken. This article will tell them how to edit their registry so they never see the Metro UI interface on startup and they can get one of those third part programs to bring back their start bar. Or they could just stick with Windows 7, which is also fine.


That's not why people hate Windows 8. The Start Screen replacing the Start Menu is just a symptom of the problem.

The real reason Windows 8 is being reacted to poorly is because everything about its operation - even in desktop mode - is keyed towards Tablet and Touchscreen operation. In particular, mandatory gestures and unmarked screen "hot zones" are things which make a great deal of sense on a touchscreen, but are JUST F%$#ING MADDENING with keyboard+mouse control. The "hold and drag" operation for logging in, etc. is particularly bad. On a touchscreen it's simple: touch top of window, keep finger on screen while you drag it wherever. Easy. But with a mouse it becomes a two step operation of click, hold click, move mouse at same time, release when contextually appropriate. This should not be something you have to do for any mandatory OS operation like logging in. If nothing else, it's bad for older people; my mother literally cannot do this motion more than a few times before her arthritis kicks in and her hand becomes useless.

Then there's "hot-zones", which again make more sense on a touchscreen, but even here could have been handled better. The biggest issue with the Windows 8 implementation of them is that there is NO visual indicator as to their location; you are just expected to ALREADY KNOW where they are, which means either sitting through a tutorial or asking someone else. This is a step backwards from every previous version of Windows since 95, where we had a button that LITERALLY tells us "start here". Not only that, everything's spread out among multiple hot zones. The start menu is on one corner, the "charms bar" is somewhere else entirely, as is settings. These aren't really things that need to be strictly separated, or made harder for the user to find.

Like I said, this all makes a lot more sense on a touchscreen or tablet, where these kinds of things are expected. For a desktop it's just awkward. Windows 8 is probably phenomenal on tablets and so on, but my desktop won't be running it anytime soon.
 
2012-12-07 08:48:18 PM  

pudding7: Rent Party: I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?

If you're browsing Fark using IE in Metro and have a chat message from a buddy some other chat application, can you read the chat without leaving IE? Can you have a YouTube video playing off to the side while working on an Excel spreadsheet, while simultaneously keeping an eye on an FTP transfer?


YES. YES. YES. YES.

The desktop is exactly the same as Windows 7, except there's no Start button at the lower left. You can have as many windows open as you want, multitask like a motherfarker, and still pop into the Start Menu (what everyone here is still calling "Metro" even though MS dumped that name for general release) to open up a quick app for whatever purpose. If you need to find anything, you pop into the Start Menu and start typing, and Search finds it automatically. No need to open Search-- It's always there.

Honestly, I LIKE Windows 8. It's like Windows 7, except it has a lot of improvements under the hood and the Start Menu is now a whole screen rather than a little pop-up. It's faster than Windows 7. It boots up quicker than any Windows I've ever used.

I think people are just determined to hate it based on a few screenshots and a few seconds playing with the Start Menu at Best Buy.
 
2012-12-07 09:02:51 PM  
I love this thread!

You give people a new choice of GUI (Metro) and they complain that it isnt the same as what they were used to, even though what they were used to is still right there if they want it.

Here is a hint. Metro is best for touch screens. The standard gui is works well for mouse/keyboard. Now you have a choice. If you like new stuff, go with the new. If you are (ahem) "Set in your ways", you can use the standard gui exclusively.

"Noooo! I dont get the new back button! I dont understand! And because I dont immediately understand how it works, I will declare that there is in fact no system, and that it is random! Look, those (entirely customizable tiles) that you can move with your finger arent the exact tiles I want! I'd have to move them around! And add my own stuff! Choices are ugly!"
 
2012-12-07 09:58:10 PM  

ISO15693: I love this thread!

You give people a new choice of GUI (Metro) and they complain that it isnt the same as what they were used to, even though what they were used to is still right there if they want it.

Here is a hint. Metro is best for touch screens. The standard gui is works well for mouse/keyboard. Now you have a choice. If you like new stuff, go with the new. If you are (ahem) "Set in your ways", you can use the standard gui exclusively.

"Noooo! I dont get the new back button! I dont understand! And because I dont immediately understand how it works, I will declare that there is in fact no system, and that it is random! Look, those (entirely customizable tiles) that you can move with your finger arent the exact tiles I want! I'd have to move them around! And add my own stuff! Choices are ugly!"


You know how I know you didn't read my post?
 
2012-12-07 10:29:28 PM  
Seems to me the marketing weasels dropped the ball on this one. They should have just sold it as "Windows Touch" instead of a whole new Windows version.

There would have been a lot less raging I think, if MS had thought to let users choose their preferred desktop during installation and have that become their default. And of course offer an option in system settings to let you switch from one to the other.
 
2012-12-07 10:36:47 PM  

Old enough to know better: Seems to me the marketing weasels dropped the ball on this one. They should have just sold it as "Windows Touch" instead of a whole new Windows version.

There would have been a lot less raging I think, if MS had thought to let users choose their preferred desktop during installation and have that become their default. And of course offer an option in system settings to let you switch from one to the other.


Windows Touch is a fairly accurate name for it. It IS optimized for touchscreens. Of course, had they named it accurately like this they wouldn't have been able to push it onto every new PC made now. Windows 8 makes it sound like the next must-have version, whereas Windows Touch would make it clear you aren't really getting much out of the bargain if you don't have a touchscreen.
 
2012-12-08 01:32:29 AM  
OK, just in case somebody out there gives a shiat, here's my Windows 8 story.

About a month ago, I got a new laptop with Win8 as an early christmas gift. Prior to this, I had seen the commercials and heard the hype and pretty consistently rolled my eyes at all of it. "Oh boy, here we go," I thought to myself, "Windows 7 for people too stupid to use anything but a touchscreen." After taking some time and exploring, however, I found that (for me) it's a hell of a lot easier to use than XP, which I have been using consistently for the last 9 or 10 years. The only complaints I had were that the start menu was ugly and the 'hot corners' were annoying. However, the corners are easily disabled and the start menu is actually easier to use - instead of mousing through tabs, all I have to do is type the first 3 or 4 letters of the program I want and it pops right up. (However, I pretty much only use the start menu for things like Acrobat, wordpad, calculator, etc., so your mileage may vary.)

In addition, being a sound-oriented person who is also lazy, I enjoy the fact that the default sounds for Win8 are far and away more pleasant than XP or Vista.
 
2012-12-08 10:01:13 AM  

Marine1: BullBearMS: How dare you call me a shill!

Now stand back and give me room to shill in!

It would have cost Microsoft nothing to allow users to turn Metro off if they don't like it.

Apple added behaviors from iOS to it's desktop OS as well, but every single one of those behaviors is optional and can be turned on or off in the Control Panel.

As for releasing a new flagship phone knowing full well the new version of the OS you are about to release will never run on it? The fact that you defend this behavior puts that whole "am I a Microsoft shill" question to rest.

Uh huh. Cost nothing... software engineers cost nothing. Their time is free, especially when implementing an older version of the exact same thing they're releasing in their current software.

I'll be sure to let the payroll department at Microsoft know that right after I ask them for my shill money that they've owed me all of these years. Boy howdy, have those guys been getting hosed by their own employees or what?

And I don't think you know what the term "upgrade path" means. The Lumia 900 does indeed have one. Here it is. Video Teaser of Windows Phone 7.8 Update on Nokia Lumia 900


Wait. So Microsoft doesn't already have the code for explorer in Windows 7? These lame ass excuses are what makes you a shill.

Also, how do you upgrade the Lumina 900 to Windows Phone 8, the current version of the OS?

Oh yea. You can't.

Lame farking shill.
 
2012-12-08 03:44:22 PM  

BullBearMS: Marine1: BullBearMS: How dare you call me a shill!

Now stand back and give me room to shill in!

It would have cost Microsoft nothing to allow users to turn Metro off if they don't like it.

Apple added behaviors from iOS to it's desktop OS as well, but every single one of those behaviors is optional and can be turned on or off in the Control Panel.

As for releasing a new flagship phone knowing full well the new version of the OS you are about to release will never run on it? The fact that you defend this behavior puts that whole "am I a Microsoft shill" question to rest.

Uh huh. Cost nothing... software engineers cost nothing. Their time is free, especially when implementing an older version of the exact same thing they're releasing in their current software.

I'll be sure to let the payroll department at Microsoft know that right after I ask them for my shill money that they've owed me all of these years. Boy howdy, have those guys been getting hosed by their own employees or what?

And I don't think you know what the term "upgrade path" means. The Lumia 900 does indeed have one. Here it is. Video Teaser of Windows Phone 7.8 Update on Nokia Lumia 900

Wait. So Microsoft doesn't already have the code for explorer in Windows 7? These lame ass excuses are what makes you a shill.

Also, how do you upgrade the Lumina 900 to Windows Phone 8, the current version of the OS?

Oh yea. You can't.

Lame farking shill.


You don't know what the definition of shill is, do you?

Arguing with you is like arguing with a 13 year old that has antisocial personality disorder. Seriously. One little thing changes in Windows, and suddenly, you claim that Microsoft has massive contempt for their user base. Then, they want to integrate features into their mobile OS that some older hardware just can't support, so again, to you, massive contempt. Forget that the Metro start screen is practically the same concept as the Start button presented in a slightly different way, or that the WP7 flagships will be getting an update to bring new features from WP8 to their hardware... "massive contempt".

You're linux_yes, but instead of constantly saying "yes" to one platform (regardless of its merits), you just say "no" to another one, no matter what evidence is presented to you.
 
2012-12-08 06:21:32 PM  

Marine1: One little thing changes in Windows, and suddenly, you claim that Microsoft has massive contempt for their user base.


To be fair, pretty much everybody has stated that this is the biggest change between versions of windows since the 3.1 -> 95 transition. I'm not certain this qualifies as "one little change."
 
2012-12-09 01:48:49 PM  

jack21221: So far, we have "it boots faster." I reboot my computer MAYBE once a week, so this is not an issue.


This exactly
 
2012-12-09 02:04:41 PM  

jack21221: meanmutton: (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer

Care to explain to me under what circumstances I would ever use the touch screen? Right now, I can move my hand a few centimeters in either direction with my arm resting on the table and then move my index finger about a millimeter downwards to click on something. On a touch screen, I'd need to lift my whole arm up and swing it from place to place to click on things. That sounds much, much worse.


Don't forget having a greased up dirty monitor to look at.
 
Displayed 213 of 213 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report