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(SeattlePI)   Windows 8: A Christmas gift for someone you hate   (seattlepi.com) divider line 213
    More: Obvious, A Christmas Gift  
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5376 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Dec 2012 at 12:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-07 08:21:40 PM

jack21221: This is my biggest problem with it. I'm not quite ready to buy a new computer, but in the next year or two, I'll have to. When I buy a new computer, I want the option to still install Windows 7. My fear is that nobody will be selling anything with Windows 7 on it, and I'll be forced into buying Windows 8. I don't use any of the shiny new bells and whistles that people are talking about on here (no touchscreen, no social media, no songs on my computer, etc), so I don't want to have to wade through all this stuff I don't use. Windows 7 is clearly the best option for me, but Microsoft seems to be trying to cram Windows 8 and its tablet PC UI down everybody's throats. When Windows 7 came out, Vista all but vanished overnight; all new PCs seemed to use Windows 7 instead. I am afraid that will happen to Windows 7 now that 8 is out.


Build your PC.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: jack21221: Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*

Like it or not, it's the future. 10 years from now 95% of everything you do will be cloud-based, which means advertising, and there's nothing you can do about it. Yes it blows. But I embraced the horror a while back. It's inevitable.


NO. I will never allow myself to jump into the cloud. Ten years from now, I'll still be computing locally, come hell or highwater.
 
2012-12-07 08:22:29 PM

Celerian: The biggest complaint I find is that people who HATE windows 8 are usually not willing to give up the "Start Menu" and feel that the OS is broken without it. If that's their definition of broken, then yes, it's broken. This article will tell them how to edit their registry so they never see the Metro UI interface on startup and they can get one of those third part programs to bring back their start bar. Or they could just stick with Windows 7, which is also fine.


That's not why people hate Windows 8. The Start Screen replacing the Start Menu is just a symptom of the problem.

The real reason Windows 8 is being reacted to poorly is because everything about its operation - even in desktop mode - is keyed towards Tablet and Touchscreen operation. In particular, mandatory gestures and unmarked screen "hot zones" are things which make a great deal of sense on a touchscreen, but are JUST F%$#ING MADDENING with keyboard+mouse control. The "hold and drag" operation for logging in, etc. is particularly bad. On a touchscreen it's simple: touch top of window, keep finger on screen while you drag it wherever. Easy. But with a mouse it becomes a two step operation of click, hold click, move mouse at same time, release when contextually appropriate. This should not be something you have to do for any mandatory OS operation like logging in. If nothing else, it's bad for older people; my mother literally cannot do this motion more than a few times before her arthritis kicks in and her hand becomes useless.

Then there's "hot-zones", which again make more sense on a touchscreen, but even here could have been handled better. The biggest issue with the Windows 8 implementation of them is that there is NO visual indicator as to their location; you are just expected to ALREADY KNOW where they are, which means either sitting through a tutorial or asking someone else. This is a step backwards from every previous version of Windows since 95, where we had a button that LITERALLY tells us "start here". Not only that, everything's spread out among multiple hot zones. The start menu is on one corner, the "charms bar" is somewhere else entirely, as is settings. These aren't really things that need to be strictly separated, or made harder for the user to find.

Like I said, this all makes a lot more sense on a touchscreen or tablet, where these kinds of things are expected. For a desktop it's just awkward. Windows 8 is probably phenomenal on tablets and so on, but my desktop won't be running it anytime soon.
 
2012-12-07 08:48:18 PM

pudding7: Rent Party: I've only seen it on the Surface, but I'm confused. When it was folded up as a tablet, there were all these little boxes that did stuff, and I was like "Hey, that's a pretty good UI for a tablet." When I folded it down to the keyboard "laptop" style, one of the "little boxes that does stuff" took the UI back to good old familiar start button land and it looked like a laptop should.

All of that took me about 30 seconds to figure out. What am I doing wrong that causes me not to hate this?

If you're browsing Fark using IE in Metro and have a chat message from a buddy some other chat application, can you read the chat without leaving IE? Can you have a YouTube video playing off to the side while working on an Excel spreadsheet, while simultaneously keeping an eye on an FTP transfer?


YES. YES. YES. YES.

The desktop is exactly the same as Windows 7, except there's no Start button at the lower left. You can have as many windows open as you want, multitask like a motherfarker, and still pop into the Start Menu (what everyone here is still calling "Metro" even though MS dumped that name for general release) to open up a quick app for whatever purpose. If you need to find anything, you pop into the Start Menu and start typing, and Search finds it automatically. No need to open Search-- It's always there.

Honestly, I LIKE Windows 8. It's like Windows 7, except it has a lot of improvements under the hood and the Start Menu is now a whole screen rather than a little pop-up. It's faster than Windows 7. It boots up quicker than any Windows I've ever used.

I think people are just determined to hate it based on a few screenshots and a few seconds playing with the Start Menu at Best Buy.
 
2012-12-07 09:02:51 PM
I love this thread!

You give people a new choice of GUI (Metro) and they complain that it isnt the same as what they were used to, even though what they were used to is still right there if they want it.

Here is a hint. Metro is best for touch screens. The standard gui is works well for mouse/keyboard. Now you have a choice. If you like new stuff, go with the new. If you are (ahem) "Set in your ways", you can use the standard gui exclusively.

"Noooo! I dont get the new back button! I dont understand! And because I dont immediately understand how it works, I will declare that there is in fact no system, and that it is random! Look, those (entirely customizable tiles) that you can move with your finger arent the exact tiles I want! I'd have to move them around! And add my own stuff! Choices are ugly!"
 
2012-12-07 09:58:10 PM

ISO15693: I love this thread!

You give people a new choice of GUI (Metro) and they complain that it isnt the same as what they were used to, even though what they were used to is still right there if they want it.

Here is a hint. Metro is best for touch screens. The standard gui is works well for mouse/keyboard. Now you have a choice. If you like new stuff, go with the new. If you are (ahem) "Set in your ways", you can use the standard gui exclusively.

"Noooo! I dont get the new back button! I dont understand! And because I dont immediately understand how it works, I will declare that there is in fact no system, and that it is random! Look, those (entirely customizable tiles) that you can move with your finger arent the exact tiles I want! I'd have to move them around! And add my own stuff! Choices are ugly!"


You know how I know you didn't read my post?
 
2012-12-07 10:29:28 PM
Seems to me the marketing weasels dropped the ball on this one. They should have just sold it as "Windows Touch" instead of a whole new Windows version.

There would have been a lot less raging I think, if MS had thought to let users choose their preferred desktop during installation and have that become their default. And of course offer an option in system settings to let you switch from one to the other.
 
2012-12-07 10:36:47 PM

Old enough to know better: Seems to me the marketing weasels dropped the ball on this one. They should have just sold it as "Windows Touch" instead of a whole new Windows version.

There would have been a lot less raging I think, if MS had thought to let users choose their preferred desktop during installation and have that become their default. And of course offer an option in system settings to let you switch from one to the other.


Windows Touch is a fairly accurate name for it. It IS optimized for touchscreens. Of course, had they named it accurately like this they wouldn't have been able to push it onto every new PC made now. Windows 8 makes it sound like the next must-have version, whereas Windows Touch would make it clear you aren't really getting much out of the bargain if you don't have a touchscreen.
 
2012-12-08 01:32:29 AM
OK, just in case somebody out there gives a shiat, here's my Windows 8 story.

About a month ago, I got a new laptop with Win8 as an early christmas gift. Prior to this, I had seen the commercials and heard the hype and pretty consistently rolled my eyes at all of it. "Oh boy, here we go," I thought to myself, "Windows 7 for people too stupid to use anything but a touchscreen." After taking some time and exploring, however, I found that (for me) it's a hell of a lot easier to use than XP, which I have been using consistently for the last 9 or 10 years. The only complaints I had were that the start menu was ugly and the 'hot corners' were annoying. However, the corners are easily disabled and the start menu is actually easier to use - instead of mousing through tabs, all I have to do is type the first 3 or 4 letters of the program I want and it pops right up. (However, I pretty much only use the start menu for things like Acrobat, wordpad, calculator, etc., so your mileage may vary.)

In addition, being a sound-oriented person who is also lazy, I enjoy the fact that the default sounds for Win8 are far and away more pleasant than XP or Vista.
 
2012-12-08 10:01:13 AM

Marine1: BullBearMS: How dare you call me a shill!

Now stand back and give me room to shill in!

It would have cost Microsoft nothing to allow users to turn Metro off if they don't like it.

Apple added behaviors from iOS to it's desktop OS as well, but every single one of those behaviors is optional and can be turned on or off in the Control Panel.

As for releasing a new flagship phone knowing full well the new version of the OS you are about to release will never run on it? The fact that you defend this behavior puts that whole "am I a Microsoft shill" question to rest.

Uh huh. Cost nothing... software engineers cost nothing. Their time is free, especially when implementing an older version of the exact same thing they're releasing in their current software.

I'll be sure to let the payroll department at Microsoft know that right after I ask them for my shill money that they've owed me all of these years. Boy howdy, have those guys been getting hosed by their own employees or what?

And I don't think you know what the term "upgrade path" means. The Lumia 900 does indeed have one. Here it is. Video Teaser of Windows Phone 7.8 Update on Nokia Lumia 900


Wait. So Microsoft doesn't already have the code for explorer in Windows 7? These lame ass excuses are what makes you a shill.

Also, how do you upgrade the Lumina 900 to Windows Phone 8, the current version of the OS?

Oh yea. You can't.

Lame farking shill.
 
2012-12-08 03:44:22 PM

BullBearMS: Marine1: BullBearMS: How dare you call me a shill!

Now stand back and give me room to shill in!

It would have cost Microsoft nothing to allow users to turn Metro off if they don't like it.

Apple added behaviors from iOS to it's desktop OS as well, but every single one of those behaviors is optional and can be turned on or off in the Control Panel.

As for releasing a new flagship phone knowing full well the new version of the OS you are about to release will never run on it? The fact that you defend this behavior puts that whole "am I a Microsoft shill" question to rest.

Uh huh. Cost nothing... software engineers cost nothing. Their time is free, especially when implementing an older version of the exact same thing they're releasing in their current software.

I'll be sure to let the payroll department at Microsoft know that right after I ask them for my shill money that they've owed me all of these years. Boy howdy, have those guys been getting hosed by their own employees or what?

And I don't think you know what the term "upgrade path" means. The Lumia 900 does indeed have one. Here it is. Video Teaser of Windows Phone 7.8 Update on Nokia Lumia 900

Wait. So Microsoft doesn't already have the code for explorer in Windows 7? These lame ass excuses are what makes you a shill.

Also, how do you upgrade the Lumina 900 to Windows Phone 8, the current version of the OS?

Oh yea. You can't.

Lame farking shill.


You don't know what the definition of shill is, do you?

Arguing with you is like arguing with a 13 year old that has antisocial personality disorder. Seriously. One little thing changes in Windows, and suddenly, you claim that Microsoft has massive contempt for their user base. Then, they want to integrate features into their mobile OS that some older hardware just can't support, so again, to you, massive contempt. Forget that the Metro start screen is practically the same concept as the Start button presented in a slightly different way, or that the WP7 flagships will be getting an update to bring new features from WP8 to their hardware... "massive contempt".

You're linux_yes, but instead of constantly saying "yes" to one platform (regardless of its merits), you just say "no" to another one, no matter what evidence is presented to you.
 
2012-12-08 06:21:32 PM

Marine1: One little thing changes in Windows, and suddenly, you claim that Microsoft has massive contempt for their user base.


To be fair, pretty much everybody has stated that this is the biggest change between versions of windows since the 3.1 -> 95 transition. I'm not certain this qualifies as "one little change."
 
2012-12-09 01:48:49 PM

jack21221: So far, we have "it boots faster." I reboot my computer MAYBE once a week, so this is not an issue.


This exactly
 
2012-12-09 02:04:41 PM

jack21221: meanmutton: (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer

Care to explain to me under what circumstances I would ever use the touch screen? Right now, I can move my hand a few centimeters in either direction with my arm resting on the table and then move my index finger about a millimeter downwards to click on something. On a touch screen, I'd need to lift my whole arm up and swing it from place to place to click on things. That sounds much, much worse.


Don't forget having a greased up dirty monitor to look at.
 
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