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(SeattlePI)   Windows 8: A Christmas gift for someone you hate   (seattlepi.com) divider line 210
    More: Obvious, A Christmas Gift  
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5378 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Dec 2012 at 12:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-07 10:20:17 AM  

BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional. If you didn't think it made sense on a PC with a mouse, you could simply turn it off.

Microsoft is not such a company.


Umm... have you used Windows 8? The Metro interface is really just a replacement for your start menu. The vast majority of the time you're in the desktop.
 
2012-12-07 10:22:10 AM  

jack21221: Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?


I can give you a couple of reasons. Whether they are worth the price of the upgrade for you? Probably not. I ended up picking it up because as a designer (including UI design) I was so curious, especially about the hate.

Generally, you should get windows 8 if:
1. You have an OS older than 7 (XP, Vista, etc). It is a cheap upgrade and worth it
2. You have other devices in the ecosystem, such as a Surface RT or Lumia. As far as I can tell (I have neither, I just use an old Nokia dumb phone) everything syncs across all of the devices through a central account. So you can edit settings on your phone or RT through your desktop and vice versa.
3. You care about minor performance increases over 7. This doesn't seem to apply to you.
4. You want a central, searchable, built in place to organize all your social media stuff. The people app does an excellent job of this.
5. Once you get used to it (couple days? week? Took me about an hour) the UI is faster to use.

There are probably a couple more I didn't think of.

Whether you feel you should get it or not is up to you, as far as cost, but it is better in nearly every way.
 
2012-12-07 10:22:12 AM  

Absurdity: olapbill: Absurdity: Since this is a Windows 8 thread, I will post this here. I originally posted it to the Microsoft help board, but I never got a reply. I'm sure there is some really obvious answer that will make me look like an idiot, but I'm at a loss to fix this:

I recently upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows 7 on my Sony Vaio laptop (model #VCBYB35KX). Everything was working great for the first two days. However, after that time period, I began running into serious problems. I woke my computer up from a "sleep" state to find that my computer could no longer see any devices plugged into my USB ports, my Bluetooth mouse, or my built-in webcam.

I checked my devices under the setting in an attempt to rectify the problem. My computer still has the mouse listed as a device, but I every attempt to remove it from the device list so that I could reload it from scratch resulted in a message "remove failed".

When I open up the "devices and printers" menu, my computer shows up with an "error" message. The automatic troubleshoot does nothing. It is a circular problem saying that there is a problem with the device driver, and an attempt to apply the fix, which goes right back to saying there is a problem.

I tried to manually install driver updates to all hardware on my computer, and while I was able to install the drivers themselves, there was no change.

As a last resort, I did a system restore to immediately after the Windows 8 install (when everything was still working). Not only did this not work, but now the button on my start menu all fail to work, except for the button that leads to the desktop.

So, yeah. I would say that my Windows 8 experience is even worse than most.

what component currently has an exclamation point on it in device manager?

Unfortunately I don't have it in front of me, but it was the USB device manager. I forget exactly what it is called.

/Not too tech savvy. But I really appreciate the help.


in device manager, right click uninstall it and reboot.
 
2012-12-07 10:22:57 AM  

uncoveror: Instead of a start button and a simple list of what you have, you get boxes to click on. As you add more software, there are more and more boxes until the one you need now is a needle in a haystack. That is not progress, it is a giant leap backward to Windows 3.1, and that is a stupid idea. Shutting it down is a pain in the ass. Even if you have been using computers all your life, you will probably need a "for dummies" book to figure this mess out.


How to do shutdown with Windows 8: Press the power button on your computer.
 
2012-12-07 10:24:15 AM  

jack21221: You can have an unlimited number of programs open at a time in Windows Vista. Two is a downgrade.

Are you obtuse or just stupid? You can have unlimited apps open, 2 METRO apps on SCREEN at the same time, or 1 Metro app AND the desktop which can have as many windows on it as you can squeeze in.

Oh, you mean like the desktop shortcuts I already have in Vista?

Yes, except faster, searchable, and with information.

 
2012-12-07 10:27:32 AM  
I'm installing it today on a spare laptop that I have laying around. Not that I think I'll use it or like it, but I'm genuinely curious.
 
2012-12-07 10:29:32 AM  

jack21221: Ba'boon: So much uninformed bashing in this thread.

Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

So far, we have "it boots faster." I reboot my computer MAYBE once a week, so this is not an issue. You talk about calendar/chat notifications. I don't know what chat you're talking about, and my (few) calendar entries are on my iPhone.

You can have tons of programs open in EVERY version of windows, from windows 3.1 on, so I don't see how this is an upgrade. I can't imagine a "weather app" being "incredible." It's trivial to open a new tab in Chrome and just click on my weather channel bookmark. Having that on the desktop would be so minor as to be unnoticeable.

Got anything else?


Not that I think I'm going to convince you, but the task manager is a LOT better. Much more control and much more information.

The Store, and the apps you get from it, aren't as trivial as you'd suspect at first glance. I think devs will find ways to use it in ways that are definitely meaningful, even to desktop/laptop users... hell, I've used one of the apps there to review for tests in one of my classes. It's a program that displays info about and explains different sorting algorithms. It's presented in a way that makes more sense than your traditional Win32 program.

Want to stick with Windows 7? Fine. Just be aware that Windows 8 is far from the piece of crap everyone makes it out to be.

If you want to stick
 
2012-12-07 10:30:01 AM  

jack21221: WhippingBoy: Windows 8 isn't that bad.

You realize that this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, right? By all accounts, Windows 7 was "really good," and here you're saying Windows 8 "isn't that bad." So why would anybody choose windows 8 over windows 7?

Actually, I'm going to leave that as a standing question to everybody. What benefits does Windows 8 have over Windows 7?


What I've seen: Vastly improved touchscreen support (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer), vastly improved boot and shutdown times, vastly improved search function (particularly program searches -- if I want to launch a program, I can just hit the windows key and then type it and it pops up almost immediately; with Windows 7, it would take 10-15 seconds to search), easier wireless connectivity, a better task manager (honestly, a very small thing), an easier-to-use start menu (that's really all that Metro is for most people; my 3 year old daughter can much more easily find applications than she could with the old start menu and my 70 year old father can actually see what programs he's using), applications seem speedier but I haven't done any comparison so that might just be purely coincidence.

In all, if you're going to get a touchscreen laptop, Windows 8 is insanely awesome.

If you're not, it's pretty indistinguishable from Windows 7 once you realize that Metro is just an imporved start menu.
 
2012-12-07 10:30:52 AM  

Beta Tested: jack21221: Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

I can give you a couple of reasons. Whether they are worth the price of the upgrade for you? Probably not. I ended up picking it up because as a designer (including UI design) I was so curious, especially about the hate.

Generally, you should get windows 8 if:
1. You have an OS older than 7 (XP, Vista, etc). It is a cheap upgrade and worth it


I'm talking about buying a new computer with either 7 or 8 preinstalled.

Beta Tested: 2. You have other devices in the ecosystem, such as a Surface RT or Lumia. As far as I can tell (I have neither, I just use an old Nokia dumb phone) everything syncs across all of the devices through a central account. So you can edit settings on your phone or RT through your desktop and vice versa.


I don't.

Beta Tested: 3. You care about minor performance increases over 7. This doesn't seem to apply to you.


From what I've read, there are no performance increases as far as gaming goes, which would be most important. Games in 7 and 8 get nearly identical framerates.

Beta Tested: 4. You want a central, searchable, built in place to organize all your social media stuff. The people app does an excellent job of this.


I don't have any social media. I'm not on facebook or anywhere else.

Beta Tested: 5. Once you get used to it (couple days? week? Took me about an hour) the UI is faster to use.


I find that difficult to believe, especially since many people have said that the desktop UI is very much like Windows 7. I'm already pretty darn fast with my Vista UI.

Beta Tested: You can have unlimited apps open, 2 METRO apps on SCREEN at the same time, or 1 Metro app AND the desktop which can have as many windows on it as you can squeeze in.


Nobody has explained to me why I would have a Metro app vs a regular windows program (or web browser) that does the same thing. How is this a benefit.

Beta Tested: Yes, except faster, searchable, and with information.


I have 50 desktop icons on my PC, and I know exactly where everything is. I don't see how "searchable" would be a major benefit, and what do you mean by "with information?" My desktop shortcuts and folders all have names. Is that not information enough?
 
2012-12-07 10:31:55 AM  

dready zim: Every time I see a screenshot of windows 8 I find myself saying out loud "That screen can just fark off, there is no way I am using that OS"

When did `forwards` become `backwards` in the progress of technology?

slower, smaller, worse design, less features.

"It`s not crappy, it`s advanced!"


www.extremetech.com

What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?
 
2012-12-07 10:32:21 AM  
It's funny to see the people defending this turd. This is the pivot toward irrelevance for MS. They had a pretty good run - over 25 years of dominance on desktops and notebooks. Xbox will still be pretty good to them, and Office in some form. But the next 5 years will be exceedingly brutal in the OS space. There will be vast numbers of "what happened" articles written.
 
2012-12-07 10:33:00 AM  

moel: Beta Tested: The new start screen is much better than the old start menu. The old start menu was quickly reduced to near uselessness by tons of nested folders obscuring what you were looking for.

Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?


1) Doesn't your mouse have a wheel?
2) Touch screen.
 
2012-12-07 10:35:28 AM  

meanmutton: What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?


Which is the "minimize all windows" button? That's one thing I like in Vista that Windows 7 hid off to the side. I don't see it anywhere there.

Other than that, it looks identical to Windows 7, which isn't a very big selling point for Windows 8.
 
2012-12-07 10:35:58 AM  

Bacontastesgood: It's funny to see the people defending this turd. This is the pivot toward irrelevance for MS. They had a pretty good run - over 25 years of dominance on desktops and notebooks. Xbox will still be pretty good to them, and Office in some form. But the next 5 years will be exceedingly brutal in the OS space. There will be vast numbers of "what happened" articles written.


It's funny seeing Luddites who haven't spent any time with a touch-screen computer and Windows 8 knee-jerk bash what will be seen in a few years as revolutionary technology.
 
2012-12-07 10:36:49 AM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.


So, anything you have to install a "third-party" extension on is crap?

I'll get the word out to all of the Linux/UNIX/Mac OSX guys who use something other than X for their GUI.
 
2012-12-07 10:36:57 AM  
Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?


The start screen as a nested "Menu" is gone, because it was crap. It was replaced with a better interface for pinning, and improved search functionality. Keeping ALL of your program shortcuts in a nested menu is unnecessary and outdated.

I have my start screen at just 1 screen with no scrolling, in fact I stuck some stuff in there just to fill it up a bit more and make it look nice. I only frequently start maybe a dozen programs? For the rest I just start typing and press enter. Much faster than any menu, and what I did in 7 for years.

And the menu is still there if you NEED to use (maybe you don't remember the name of an obscure program?), click on "All Apps". This too is better than nested folders, as you can much more quickly scan for what you are looking for.
 
2012-12-07 10:37:26 AM  

meanmutton: (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer


Care to explain to me under what circumstances I would ever use the touch screen? Right now, I can move my hand a few centimeters in either direction with my arm resting on the table and then move my index finger about a millimeter downwards to click on something. On a touch screen, I'd need to lift my whole arm up and swing it from place to place to click on things. That sounds much, much worse.
 
2012-12-07 10:37:26 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?

Which is the "minimize all windows" button? That's one thing I like in Vista that Windows 7 hid off to the side. I don't see it anywhere there.

Other than that, it looks identical to Windows 7, which isn't a very big selling point for Windows 8.


It's still in the bottom right corner.
 
2012-12-07 10:39:35 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: What about this makes you say "Just fark off"?

Which is the "minimize all windows" button? That's one thing I like in Vista that Windows 7 hid off to the side. I don't see it anywhere there.

Other than that, it looks identical to Windows 7, which isn't a very big selling point for Windows 8.


It's a weird one -- it's invisible, actually. It's right next to the date and time, to the right. I don't know why they made it invisible, that seems kind of silly.

I don't think you should upgrade unless you have a touchscreen computer. I'm certainly not arguing that you should spend the $100 or whatever to buy it. However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.
 
2012-12-07 10:40:35 AM  

meanmutton: However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.


Refer to my previous post. It's far easier to use a mouse to select things. It takes virtually no effort, and the point of the mouse is much smaller than my fat finger, so I can do it more accurately.
 
2012-12-07 10:40:40 AM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.


I just don't use the Metro interface that much except as a start menu replacement. You haven't actually used it, have you?
 
2012-12-07 10:42:23 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.

Refer to my previous post. It's far easier to use a mouse to select things. It takes virtually no effort, and the point of the mouse is much smaller than my fat finger, so I can do it more accurately.


I agree with meanmutton... I know we're all big on mouse usage here, but it's not the end-all, be-all of human-machine interaction. Windows 8 is a chance for everyone to try other stuff... touch, NUI (Kinect, PrimeSense), touchpads/touch mice, etc. Can't hurt.
 
2012-12-07 10:45:41 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: (Honestly, get a touchscreen laptop for your next computer

Care to explain to me under what circumstances I would ever use the touch screen? Right now, I can move my hand a few centimeters in either direction with my arm resting on the table and then move my index finger about a millimeter downwards to click on something. On a touch screen, I'd need to lift my whole arm up and swing it from place to place to click on things. That sounds much, much worse.


It's one of those things you don't really expect to use until you do it. It's much quicker to take your hand from your keyboard to the screen to move the screen than to a mouse, then take the mouse to the scroll bar, then move the scroll bar. So, if I'm in Word and I want to scroll up -- I just drag my finger across the screen and scroll up. If I am reading a PDF in Acrobat and I want to go to the next page, I can just flip through from page to page. If I want to magnify the page, I just pinch like on a tablet instead of playing with the zoom button.

Opening up an app -- quicker to just take your finger from the keyboard to the screen and hit the icon than to take your hand from the keyboard to the mouse, move the mouse to the icon, and then double-click.

Web pages are where i use it the most -- much quicker in every way.

If I get notifications (Outlook says I have a new email, g-talk says I have a new IM or whatever) then it's quicker to just touch the notification on my screen than it is to use the mouse to toggle to it.

Switching applications is faster, too -- just touch the app in the taskbar. Honestly, it's one of those things you never expect to do until, well, you do it.

Plus, it's way easier for a young kid to use a touchscreen than a mouse.
 
2012-12-07 10:45:41 AM  

meanmutton: It's funny seeing Luddites who haven't spent any time with a touch-screen computer and Windows 8 knee-jerk bash what will be seen in a few years as revolutionary technology.


I'm sitting at a touchscreen right now - an HP AIO that I bought 3 years ago. It's had W8 on it, for a month, and I could put that HD back in easily at any time. No interest.

I also run a company that uses 12 W7 machines and one XP machine currently - legacy issues for XP. W8 is such a pile of garbage that we're evaluating macs and ubuntu for future development. It's kind of a biatch because we have about $15k in windows based software - not counting office and whatnot, and have to support users of our hardware that ships with W7 embedded currently. With touchscreens. It's funny dealing with our suppliers because some are in the tank and saying everything's awesome, but clearly pissing themselves with anxiety about W8, and others are just frankly sick of the bullshiat and like us looking for alternatives.

So, IOW, you don't know shiat about me.
 
2012-12-07 10:48:26 AM  

jack21221: Beta Tested: jack21221: Then can you give me, as a keyboard-and-mouse desktop user, any good reasons to get Windows 8 over Windows 7?

I can give you a couple of reasons. Whether they are worth the price of the upgrade for you? Probably not. I ended up picking it up because as a designer (including UI design) I was so curious, especially about the hate.

Generally, you should get windows 8 if:
1. You have an OS older than 7 (XP, Vista, etc). It is a cheap upgrade and worth it

I'm talking about buying a new computer with either 7 or 8 preinstalled....


For a new computer, you'd want 8. Other than that, it seems (you know, like I said) that you don't use many of the features lots of other people would. Which is fine, but no reason to talk trash about something you are unfamiliar with and directing people it MIGHT be useful for away from.

If you are fast with Vista you'd be as fast or faster with 8. I was softening the blow, what took me an hour was setting everything up to my liking, at which point I was faster than on 7.

The benefit of metro apps much smaller for a desktop, but they do come in handy. The ones integrated into windows (email, social, etc), can be set so they are just "on" as part of the OS, which is handy. Other times there are apps that are simply nice to use with no x86 equivilant like the kindle app. Also you can edit and sync setting for apps for your other devices if you have them and, and I think if you buy an app with your phone you can use it on your desktop as well (I don't have a Win8 phone).

So, there are advantages, how many and how much varies from person to person.
 
2012-12-07 10:48:29 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: However, for your next computer, get one with a touch display. It's wickedly awesome.

Refer to my previous post. It's far easier to use a mouse to select things. It takes virtually no effort, and the point of the mouse is much smaller than my fat finger, so I can do it more accurately.


Yeah, selecting things -- you still use your mouse. It's useful for things like scrolling, magnifying, switching between apps, popping up notifications, etc.
 
2012-12-07 10:48:39 AM  

meanmutton: It's one of those things you don't really expect to use until you do it. It's much quicker to take your hand from your keyboard to the screen to move the screen than to a mouse, then take the mouse to the scroll bar, then move the scroll bar. So, if I'm in Word and I want to scroll up -- I just drag my finger across the screen and scroll up. If I am reading a PDF in Acrobat and I want to go to the next page, I can just flip through from page to page. If I want to magnify the page, I just pinch like on a tablet instead of playing with the zoom button.


I strongly disagree that it is quicker. My girlfriend has a touchscreen all-in-one PC, and I tried using the touch screen when she first got it. It sucked and it was slower and took more effort than just moving a mouse.

meanmutton: Plus, it's way easier for a young kid to use a touchscreen than a mouse.


I'm 30 years old, not a young kid, so I don't see your point.
 
2012-12-07 10:51:43 AM  

jack21221: meanmutton: It's one of those things you don't really expect to use until you do it. It's much quicker to take your hand from your keyboard to the screen to move the screen than to a mouse, then take the mouse to the scroll bar, then move the scroll bar. So, if I'm in Word and I want to scroll up -- I just drag my finger across the screen and scroll up. If I am reading a PDF in Acrobat and I want to go to the next page, I can just flip through from page to page. If I want to magnify the page, I just pinch like on a tablet instead of playing with the zoom button.

I strongly disagree that it is quicker. My girlfriend has a touchscreen all-in-one PC, and I tried using the touch screen when she first got it. It sucked and it was slower and took more effort than just moving a mouse.

meanmutton: Plus, it's way easier for a young kid to use a touchscreen than a mouse.

I'm 30 years old, not a young kid, so I don't see your point.


Is her machine running Windows 8? Touchscreen in Windows 7 wasn't nearly as good. I've had a touchscreen computer for a couple years and when I used Win7, I never used it. With Win8, I've found that i use it all the time. It's odd that it's not something I TRIED to do but it's something that just happened for me.

Either way, the difference in price between new touch-screen laptops and new non-touch-screen is quite small. It won't take long before that's all you can get.
 
2012-12-07 10:52:04 AM  

yyssyy: My aunt tricked by Fry's tech support into buying Win8. (FU Fry's!) It took me few minutes to figure out how to restart the computer. It used to be 1 or 2 click away from restart. Now I need to go through so many steps just to do something that simple.


You can make shortcuts to restart or turn off and pin them to the taskbar and the start screen. Honestly after using 8 for a while I could see the appeal of having it on parents computer. It will be a lot easier to walk them through stuff over the phone. I like that searching works just by typing on the start screen and the app store etc. I don't know. I don't think the amount of hate it's getting is in proportion the changes.
 
2012-12-07 10:54:53 AM  

jack21221: I strongly disagree that it is quicker. My girlfriend has a touchscreen all-in-one PC, and I tried using the touch screen when she first got it. It sucked and it was slower and took more effort than just moving a mouse.


If you are slick with a mouse (years or FPS and RTS training here), a touchscreen probably isn't faster. But on a laptop, you might not always be in a situation where you can use a mouse, especially with the hybrid tablet/laptops.
 
2012-12-07 10:55:46 AM  

SomeTexan: It's not that bad. Seriously.

It's windows 7 (NT 6.2) with a rotten UI. Add Start8 and Bob's your uncle.


While I'm glad several third parties have released things that will make the UI more usable, I personally can't get behind an operating system that requires third party software to become functional. It's just a bad idea to have to rely on disparate software sources to make the most fundamental aspect of your computer work the way you want.

If you already have 8, then it's probably the best option. If you have 7, it isn't really a selling point that with third party software, you can make 8 functional.
 
2012-12-07 10:58:15 AM  

burndtdan: While I'm glad several third parties have released things that will make the UI more usable, I personally can't get behind an operating system that requires third party software to become functional. It's just a bad idea to have to rely on disparate software sources to make the most fundamental aspect of your computer work the way you want.

If you already have 8, then it's probably the best option. If you have 7, it isn't really a selling point that with third party software, you can make 8 functional.


Windows 8 is MORE functional than 7 without start 8. However, if you don't have a compelling reason to upgrade, then by all means don't upgrade. When you eventually have to (new PC or whatever), it'll be that much better.
 
2012-12-07 11:00:53 AM  

jack21221: Beta Tested: 3. You care about minor performance increases over 7. This doesn't seem to apply to you.

From what I've read, there are no performance increases as far as gaming goes, which would be most important. Games in 7 and 8 get nearly identical framerates.


Truth, framerates are nearly identical in most cases. The performance increase he was talking about is in boot time. Without getting too technical, Sleep would save your current state information to RAM and put your computer into low power mode. Losing power would kill your current state. Hibernate would save your current state to a quick access file that the system could pull up to load your current state on start-up. The system was shut down, essentially, so even less power was used. With Windows 8, both of those options got a little better and a complete shutdown was overhauled completely. In Win8, shutdown will save your kernal information in a pre-load file (kinda like hibernating the kernal status). The new laptop I bought does not have a SSD in it, but I'll be damned if I can't hit my power button and have my system started in 7 seconds. The system requirements are basically the same, though I think Win8 has a natively higher resolution needed, which might make some older graphics options obsolete. The graphics used by the Windows 8 UI are much lower, and programs in the background (maybe just Metro UI apps) are put into a standby mode, so very little processing power is given to all the stuff you aren't currently using.

jack21221: Beta Tested: 5. Once you get used to it (couple days? week? Took me about an hour) the UI is faster to use.

I find that difficult to believe, especially since many people have said that the desktop UI is very much like Windows 7. I'm already pretty darn fast with my Vista UI.


He was talking about getting used to the Metro UI. You can still dump yourself out to the desktop that is familiar. It doesn't have a start button on the bar at the bottom, but as a lot of people have said, the Metro UI is meant to be a replacement/upgrade the the start menu.

jack21221: Beta Tested: You can have unlimited apps open, 2 METRO apps on SCREEN at the same time, or 1 Metro app AND the desktop which can have as many windows on it as you can squeeze in.

Nobody has explained to me why I would have a Metro app vs a regular windows program (or web browser) that does the same thing. How is this a benefit.


Essentially, you don't, but most of the Metro UI apps are live tiles, meaning instead of just a square with an icon, you will see information regarding that app. Have a music app playing in the background, and the live tile will show you what's currently playing when your on that Metro UI app. The Bing news app will scroll a few top headlines. the Stock app will show current updates to DOW and NASDAQ, People app will consolidate your social networking stuff to one, easy-to-access launchpad for the different social networking platforms and inform you of any available updates, the Mail app will show when you have new massages. All this information is at a glance by just hitting the Windows Key.

jack21221: Beta Tested: Yes, except faster, searchable, and with information.

I have 50 desktop icons on my PC, and I know exactly where everything is. I don't see how "searchable" would be a major benefit, and what do you mean by "with information?" My desktop shortcuts and folders all have names. Is that not information enough?


Say you're looking for a Fantasy Football App. Hit the Windows Key and type in Fantasy Football. If you have the app installed, it will show that. It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store. It may provide links to web pages about fantasy football. I've already explained the "With Information" thing by telling you about live tiles. Keep in mind that the OS officially came out in October, so we're still going to see some developments and bugs, as well as new apps being created all the time.
 
2012-12-07 11:09:49 AM  

FormlessOne: It's 7 with a few cool improvements (and a new UI that scares the old folks.)


/Hate Windows 8 but can appreciate the attempted logic behind it.
/get off my lawn
 
2012-12-07 11:11:22 AM  

Beta Tested: burndtdan: While I'm glad several third parties have released things that will make the UI more usable, I personally can't get behind an operating system that requires third party software to become functional. It's just a bad idea to have to rely on disparate software sources to make the most fundamental aspect of your computer work the way you want.

If you already have 8, then it's probably the best option. If you have 7, it isn't really a selling point that with third party software, you can make 8 functional.

Windows 8 is MORE functional than 7 without start 8. However, if you don't have a compelling reason to upgrade, then by all means don't upgrade. When you eventually have to (new PC or whatever), it'll be that much better.


That relies heavily on your definition of "functional". I haven't seen anything that actually provides better or more functionality than what I already have, except it booting slightly faster.
 
2012-12-07 11:17:09 AM  
The biggest complaint I find is that people who HATE windows 8 are usually not willing to give up the "Start Menu" and feel that the OS is broken without it. If that's their definition of broken, then yes, it's broken. This article will tell them how to edit their registry so they never see the Metro UI interface on startup and they can get one of those third part programs to bring back their start bar. Or they could just stick with Windows 7, which is also fine.

Or, you could attempt to think about things a little differently and see that change isn't all bad, and this new leap is just a gear shift, and the next iteration of windows will either continue with it, go back to the old ways, or try something completely different again. The point is progress through trial and error, which is how innovation is done. I'm not saying metro UI is perfect, but an attempt by Microsoft to do something different.
 
2012-12-07 11:25:39 AM  

burndtdan: That relies heavily on your definition of "functional". I haven't seen anything that actually provides better or more functionality than what I already have, except it booting slightly faster.


Did you skip most of the thread? There are many, many examples, You should read it again.
 
2012-12-07 11:25:54 AM  

italie: Since you can only display only display one screen at a time, should't it be called "Window 8"?


*spit-take*
*smile*
 
2012-12-07 11:34:33 AM  

meanmutton: moel: Beta Tested: The new start screen is much better than the old start menu. The old start menu was quickly reduced to near uselessness by tons of nested folders obscuring what you were looking for.

Who the what now? Yes, scrolling left and right on a MASSIVE menu, with mice that erm....don't scroll left and right is much easier, than a menu of organised folders....

What the hell are you blathering on about? Care to explain?

1) Doesn't your mouse have a wheel?
2) Touch screen.


I have a multitouch Apple mouse, i can go in all directions...which is EXACTLY my point....

When i was using the preview, the start screen could go up and down AND left and right...if you've only got one SHIATTY scroll direction on your mouse, what the fark are you meant to do?

I also love everyones 'get a touchscreen laptop' posturing....as if touchscreen on the desktop is the future....your all farking numpties if you think that....go on try it...try and hold your finger up against your laptop screen for more than about 5 minutes....then over the course of an hour try moving your hand between your desk, and the screen...

Unergonomic as fark....

Touch works for tablets because we position them within a radius of about 12 inches from our hands....on the desktop not so much.
 
2012-12-07 11:40:58 AM  

meanmutton: moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.

I just don't use the Metro interface that much except as a start menu replacement. You haven't actually used it, have you?


Like i said i spent 3 weeks in it's company and that was 2 weeks 6 days and 23 hours too long....and you've totally nullified your point, you said 'i don't have to use metro', if your using the start menu, you are using metro!!!!

#idiot
 
2012-12-07 11:45:57 AM  

Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.


Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*
 
2012-12-07 11:50:17 AM  

moel: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: A company that cared about it's customers would make the Metro "Let's turn your PC into a dumbed down smartphone" interface optional

Then Microsoft must care about their customers, because I've been running 8 for a couple weeks, and Metro is a distant memory.


And how did you achieve this miracle?

Did you bolt on some third party software? If so Bullbear is bang on the money i'm afraid.

An OS you have to tinker with out of the box, is a shiat OS.

End of story.


No. What I did when I did not want to use Metro was, and stick with me here because it gets pretty complicated, not use Metro. Like, instead of using it, I didn't. Complex, I know, but it works for me.

I did replace the start button out of fear of change, but I haven't used it, either. Seriously. I put the start button back, but haven't felt compelled to use it. Imagine that.

BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!


Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.
 
2012-12-07 11:53:51 AM  

jack21221: Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*


There are plenty of free apps in the store. The pay-for apps are usually very small in cost, much like in the Chrome Store or Apple Store. The point is, the search feature in WIndows 8 is quick, and searches everything to give you what you want.
 
2012-12-07 11:59:55 AM  

thurstonxhowell: No. What I did when I did not want to use Metro was, and stick with me here because it gets pretty complicated, not use Metro. Like, instead of using it, I didn't. Complex, I know, but it works for me.

I did replace the start button out of fear of change, but I haven't used it, either. Seriously. I put the start button back, but haven't felt compelled to use it. Imagine that.


So...how do you access your apps?
 
2012-12-07 12:00:29 PM  
A newspaper article based on someone's blog post? Apple must be employing the same PR firm(s) as the teabaggers...
 
2012-12-07 12:01:14 PM  
jack21221:
Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*


You must have loved buying a new PC for the last decade or so, then. Purging all the preinstalled, naggy pay-to-upgrade bloatware (if you can find it all) is like the last thing I want to do with a shiny new computer, but it has become necessary to reclaim half your RAM and at least a few GB of drive space :(
 
2012-12-07 12:04:30 PM  

red5ish: I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop. I dislike clutter. I use the task bar instead. Now Microsoft has come up with an OS that looks like this:
[img13.imageshack.us image 800x450]
In my opinion, this is very ugly.


If you are using a touchscreen, which is clearly what Windows 8 is geared towards, then a task bar oriented desktop is a horrible, horrible idea.

Windows 8's biggest failing is not the UI itself, but the misuse of it on non-touchscreen implementations. Which is partially Microsoft's fault for introducing/marketing it as a Windows 7 replacement, rather than what they should have done which is to sell it as an OS exclusively for touchscreen-based systems.
 
2012-12-07 12:08:22 PM  

jack21221: Celerian: It will also bring up several suggestions of Fantasy Football Apps to buy or install from the app store.

Oh good, my computer will advertise at me. Just what I've always wanted. *eyeroll*


Like it or not, it's the future. 10 years from now 95% of everything you do will be cloud-based, which means advertising, and there's nothing you can do about it. Yes it blows. But I embraced the horror a while back. It's inevitable.
 
2012-12-07 12:27:43 PM  

TranslucentNinja: Windows 8 isn't that bad, I've been using it for months, first with the consumer preview, then the release candidate and finally the full version. I also had a Win7 phone and all of the data that was saved "to the cloud" automatically synced to the PC. Spend a little time using it, watch a couple of the intro videos, and read a few Windows 8 tips. It boots fast, and once on the desktop, it's very similar to Windows 7.


I hate saying "this," but:

This. I was a very early adopter as of the consumer preview as well.

Jesus H. Christ the whinging, moaning, and histrionics from the tech review sites are almost funny in their helplessness. "ERMAHGERD, CHANGE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1!!11"

Metro UI isn't all that great on an actual PC. But, it doesn't take that long for people with a functioning brain to disable the annoying features with scripts or other workarounds, or just adapt and realize that the Metro "start" screen isn't all that different from the Start menu. I'm speaking from the perspective of a minimalist, so I'm always tweaking things anyway (remove until it breaks!), but even my tech-stupid parents figured Windows 8 out in a day or so, Metro UI and all.

Under the hood, it's actually a decent improvement over Windows 7 in a lot of ways. The incredibly crappy old Toshiba laptop I'm on has a 2.0 GHz dual core, 3GB of RAM, and a sad 5,400 RPM hard drive, and it still boots, from power button to desktop, in 14-15 sec. Considering that my custom-built tower with a SSHD takes 8 sec., I found that particularly impressive. Obviously, YMMV, but the fact that Windows works at all on the nearly endless number of PC configurations sometimes creeps into my head as well, a tidbit a lot of people like to either forget about or ignore completely.

One good piece of advice to using Windows 8: learn your Windows key shortcuts, if you don't use them already. I don't particularly miss the Start button anymore.
 
2012-12-07 12:33:14 PM  

thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: A person that cared about not being utterly wrong would not have typed these sentences. You will eat Microsoft's shiat sandwich and like it, damnit!

Do whatever you want with your OS, shiathead. Just don't tell me I have to use Metro with 8 when I have 8 and don't use Metro.


Do all the Microsoft shills think that attacking people who don't want a smartphone interface on their real computer somehow is going to change anyone's mind about the shiat sandwich that is Vista 2.0?
 
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