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(The Atlantic)   How badass was Dave Brubeck? Miles Davis was his proud disciple   (theatlantic.com) divider line 58
    More: Followup, Brubeck, Miles Davis, badass, Dizzy Gillespie, Duke Ellington, jazz club, jazz, Louis Armstrong  
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2689 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 06 Dec 2012 at 5:11 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 04:25:58 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yExwkQYcp0
 
He wrote one of my favorite clappy songs, Unsquare Dance.
 
I love me some clappy songs.
 
Dig this hokey video.
 
2012-12-06 05:25:31 PM  
How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy.
 
2012-12-06 05:42:23 PM  
I read Miles autobiography. Don't think he was a disciple of anybody (except himself perhaps). He was definitely not a fan of the white man, that's for sure. BUT, if you were a talented musician that happened to be white he would give you your props.
 
2012-12-06 05:59:20 PM  
I heard a story from Brubeck on an NPR jazz show about the first time he was introduced to Miles. Brubeck played his set and then his agent led him back to the bar to meet Davis.

Agent: " Miles Davis, meet Dave Brubeck"
They shake hands.
Davis growls, "You swing... Your band don't swing."
 
2012-12-06 05:59:34 PM  
Dave took his share of crap for being a white jazz musician, but he also didn't take any crap from racists about having Eugene Wright as his bass player.

The DB Quartet had a concert scheduled at a southern university and the school officials wanted Wright to play offstage because he was black. Brubeck refused and said if he's not on stage with the rest of us, we're not playing. On the first song, Brubeck gave Wright at solo spot right at the front of the stage.

jazztimes.com
 
2012-12-06 06:03:45 PM  
Deeper in the record, Brubeck delivered the even stranger "Blue Rondo a la Turk," (9/8 and 4/4 time).

if by "deeper in the record," you mean "the first track on side one."

come on, guys, this isn't hard!
 
2012-12-06 06:20:52 PM  
This anecdote about Davis cracked me up, although I read it's just an urban legend.

Davis was a man of few words. When he did speak, his words often had a similar effect to a hand grenade being lobbed into the room. In 1987, he was invited to a White House dinner by Ronald Reagan. Few of the guests appeared to know who he was. During dinner, Nancy Reagan turned to him and asked what he'd done with his life to merit an invitation. Straight-faced, Davis replied: "Well, I've changed the course of music five or six times. What have you done except fark the president?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/sep/28/miles-davis-20- y ears
 
2012-12-06 06:40:13 PM  

FlashHarry: Deeper in the record, Brubeck delivered the even stranger "Blue Rondo a la Turk," (9/8 and 4/4 time).

if by "deeper in the record," you mean "the first track on side one."

come on, guys, this isn't hard!


This was one of the many things that annoyed me about the article. The album is called Time Out (not take 5), the first song is Blue Rondo a la Turk (not Take 5), and Paul Desmond wrote take 5, not Dave Brubek as the article seems to imply.

/rant

Also in all the articles I have yet to see much mention about how that album really played with time on every song. 9/8 doesn't sound that interesting (3 triplets) until you realize he keeps mixing up the down beats in a 4 bar cycle. 5/4 time is really counted in 4, but with the final two beats being triplets that are longer (I've also heard some 5/4 that goes long long short short). Three to Get ready goes 3/4 for two, and 4/4 for two. Pick up sticks is 6/4 (or 3/2), but instead of dividing it into two 3-counts, or three 2-counts, he does a 4-count and a 2-count (like alternating 4/4 and 2/4 every bar). Lots of very interesting songs on the album. Granted Take 5 and Blue Rondo are the best.

end rant/
 
2012-12-06 06:40:15 PM  

brap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yExwkQYcp0
 
He wrote one of my favorite clappy songs, Unsquare Dance.
 
I love me some clappy songs.
 
Dig this hokey video.


Silly white folk* gots no idea the rhythms they're 'dancing' to came straight out of voodoo.
Love the song too, jammed Time Out and Time Further Out all day, much to my cubicle neighbor's chagrin.
Dave was the man. We have lost the last of the greats from that generation of jazz musicians.

*I'm white, on the outside at least.
 
2012-12-06 06:57:24 PM  

for good or for awesome: How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy.


img211.imageshack.us

Not so much

The fact that Miles loved Brubeck and hated Marsalis speaks volumes about his musical instincts.

Fun fact that may just amuse me: the intro from Blue Rondo a la Turk was borrowed two decades later by Rush for their song Natural Science.
 
2012-12-06 06:58:44 PM  
Most over-rated musician of all time:

Miles Davis or Bob Dylan?

Discuss.
 
2012-12-06 07:04:58 PM  

SevenizGud: Most over-rated musician of all time:

Miles Davis or Bob Dylan?

Discuss.


The Doors and The Eagles. All members individually, and the bands collectively.

On topic though (sort of), I'd say Dylan is more over-rated as a musician, but I've always respected him as a songwriter.
 
2012-12-06 07:13:54 PM  

Snapper Carr: for good or for awesome: How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy.

[img211.imageshack.us image 450x291]

Not so much

The fact that Miles loved Brubeck and hated Marsalis speaks volumes about his musical instincts.


I love both of those guys to the bottom of my heart. And Davis might have been the worlds greatest asshole. But walking onto someone else's stage uninvited is *always* a douche move, and I don't care who you are, or who's on stage. And when it's Miles Davis on the stage, you better know it's gonna be bad to just stroll up and start playing.

If it ain't your stage, stay off the farker until it is.

/ Just bought the re-issue of Kind of Blue
// Bought Hot House Flowers when it came out
 
2012-12-06 07:26:58 PM  

Snapper Carr: for good or for awesome: How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy.

[img211.imageshack.us image 450x291]

Not so much

The fact that Miles loved Brubeck and hated Marsalis speaks volumes about his musical instincts.

Fun fact that may just amuse me: the intro from Blue Rondo a la Turk was borrowed two decades later by Rush for their song Natural Science.


bbsimg.ngfiles.com
surely

Link/Link
 
2012-12-06 07:38:17 PM  
The only Miles Davis I really like are On the Corner and Jack Johnson

'cause of all the drugs I suppose

squawk! squwak! squeek!

I dig that
 
dwg
2012-12-06 07:46:37 PM  
How bad? He stole the cover of Time from Duke Ellington.
 
2012-12-06 07:50:04 PM  
Miles' "Kind Of Blue" and Brubeck's "Time Out" both came out around the same time and were both landmark LP's that changed the face of music forever.

Brubeck also had the first ever jazz record be a top 40 commercial hit with "Take Five".

Brubeck also started experimenting with what was called "way out" jazz forms in the 1940's (the Octet recordings) and the early 1950's, decades before "biatches Brew".

By all reports I've heard, Brubeck was basically a nice guy...Davis was a conceited, moody prick.

I dunno..I'm thinking advantage Brubeck here.
 
2012-12-06 08:03:24 PM  

superspeck



I read Miles autobiography. Don't think he was a disciple of anybody (except himself perhaps). He was definitely not a fan of the white man, that's for sure. BUT, if you were a talented musician that happened to be white he would give you your props.


I guess he must have really liked John McLaughlin then.
 
2012-12-06 08:06:04 PM  
I saw Brubeck in concert about 3 years ago. At 88, he was playing like he was 30. It was an amazing experience.
 
2012-12-06 08:07:45 PM  
That's racist!
 
2012-12-06 08:07:53 PM  
White jazz is the best jazz
 
2012-12-06 08:13:52 PM  

Third_Uncle_Eno: superspeck


I read Miles autobiography. Don't think he was a disciple of anybody (except himself perhaps). He was definitely not a fan of the white man, that's for sure. BUT, if you were a talented musician that happened to be white he would give you your props.

I guess he must have really liked John McLaughlin then.


Why, because he could toot his own horn?

WRONG!
 
2012-12-06 08:22:06 PM  
Oh wait, there's a musician John McLaughlin...
 
2012-12-06 08:23:47 PM  
Tozmo


Smartest
Funniest

2012-12-06 08:13:52 PM

Third_Uncle_Eno: superspeck


I read Miles autobiography. Don't think he was a disciple of anybody (except himself perhaps). He was definitely not a fan of the white man, that's for sure. BUT, if you were a talented musician that happened to be white he would give you your props.

I guess he must have really liked John McLaughlin then.

Why, because he could toot his own horn?

WRONG!


what the hell are you talking about, sir?
 
2012-12-06 08:27:36 PM  

Third_Uncle_Eno: Tozmo


Smartest
Funniest

2012-12-06 08:13:52 PM

Third_Uncle_Eno: superspeck


I read Miles autobiography. Don't think he was a disciple of anybody (except himself perhaps). He was definitely not a fan of the white man, that's for sure. BUT, if you were a talented musician that happened to be white he would give you your props.

I guess he must have really liked John McLaughlin then.

Why, because he could toot his own horn?

WRONG!

what the hell are you talking about, sir?


This is John Mclaughlin

24.media.tumblr.com

This is also John McLaughlin

guitar-licks-n-tricks.com

He was talking about the first one, you were talking about the second one.
 
2012-12-06 08:33:54 PM  
^^^^ I'm a fan of both. You'd think I would have gotten that immediately. :(

/old
//Mahavishnu Orchestra, best band. OF ALL TIME.
 
2012-12-06 08:40:13 PM  

rocinante721: White jazz is the best jazz


Meh. I remember Davis speaking contemptuously of what he called "Crow Jim" in a Playboy interview - the tendency of some black jazz musicians to reflexively look down on white jazz musicians. Davis worked with anybody he liked - and that attitude extended the reach and breadth of his work. Paranoids like Mingus shut off entire avenues of their own potential experience, understandable though it may have been.
Sun Ra had it right - music is the organic howl of the species, and knows no race, gender, or social class.
At least, not when it's the real thing.
 
2012-12-06 08:42:29 PM  
Dave Bruebeck, great musician, rest in peace.

That being said, I will never understand why people seem so obsessed with that record. It seems like most people who like jazz like that record, and most people who don't really like jazz LOVE that record. Or maybe Brubeck is like the Rush of the jazz world... "How can you not like these odd time signatures made catchy??"
 
2012-12-06 08:48:01 PM  

for good or for awesome: How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy.



Is that sarcasm? I like his music, but he was widely known as a racist.
 
2012-12-06 09:13:37 PM  

karmaceutical: Dave Bruebeck, great musician, rest in peace.

That being said, I will never understand why people seem so obsessed with that record. It seems like most people who like jazz like that record, and most people who don't really like jazz LOVE that record.


I almost fit in the latter category. As most jazz-loving Farkers are aware (if they havn't already put me on their I list) I'm no fan of the genre. That said, I don't mind 'Take Five'.
 
2012-12-06 09:27:19 PM  
--How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy. --

In Davis' autobio he mentioned being paired with Steve Miller once in an attempt by his label to appeal to a rock audience. Miles referred to Miller as a no-talent-can't-play-mofo.

I agree.
 
2012-12-06 09:34:45 PM  

tbriggs: --How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy. --

In Davis' autobio he mentioned being paired with Steve Miller once in an attempt by his label to appeal to a rock audience. Miles referred to Miller as a no-talent-can't-play-mofo.

I agree.


images.amazon.com

Miles Davis was full of shiat.
 
2012-12-06 09:49:02 PM  

tbriggs: --How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy. --

In Davis' autobio he mentioned being paired with Steve Miller once in an attempt by his label to appeal to a rock audience. Miles referred to Miller as a no-talent-can't-play-mofo.

I agree.


me too. especially after boz scaggs left the band.
 
2012-12-06 09:51:29 PM  

Rent Party: / Just bought the re-issue of Kind of Blue


Was it a remaster or something? Because honestly, I can't see how you can make that album sound any better than it already does. I can't think of any albums that even approached that sound in 1959.
 
2012-12-06 09:55:22 PM  

Omahawg: The only Miles Davis I really like are On the Corner and Jack Johnson


On the Corner is freakin' insane. Can you imagine the balls it took to release an album like that? Even after B*tches Brew, releasing On the Corner was akin to Pearl Jam releasing a polka record.
 
2012-12-06 09:57:36 PM  

zappaisfrank: By all reports I've heard, Brubeck was basically a nice guy


I had the honor of meeting him, and he was a generous, humble, and beautiful person.
 
2012-12-06 10:01:27 PM  

dickfreckle: Rent Party: / Just bought the re-issue of Kind of Blue

Was it a remaster or something? Because honestly, I can't see how you can make that album sound any better than it already does. I can't think of any albums that even approached that sound in 1959.


Mosaic released the definitive (to me, anyway) version that includes the takes in the order recorded as well as the between take banter or instruction Miles gives the band. It gave me a different appreciation for that record to hear how little production went into it.
 
2012-12-06 10:18:10 PM  

dickfreckle: Rent Party: / Just bought the re-issue of Kind of Blue

Was it a remaster or something? Because honestly, I can't see how you can make that album sound any better than it already does. I can't think of any albums that even approached that sound in 1959.


It was reissued on Legacy. Same artwork and everything.

And yeah it would be hard to improve on it.
 
2012-12-06 10:26:38 PM  
Marsalis always struck me as a classical musician trying to play jazz.

Then there's the famous statement that has been floating around in jazz circles forever.

"A jazz musician can clean up his playing enough to play Classical. A classical musician can't play dirty enough for Jazz."


Never understood Marsalis' popularity.
 
2012-12-06 11:05:40 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: Never understood Marsalis' popularity.


Family of musicians, the "second coming of Duke Ellington", and a clean image playing standards when others were avant-garde (whether it was bop, free, or whatever). It appealed to the Lincoln Center type who bankroll such things. That's my opinion of his popularity.
 
2012-12-07 12:32:39 AM  

Tozmo: Tsar_Bomba1: Never understood Marsalis' popularity.

Family of musicians, the "second coming of Duke Ellington", and a clean image playing standards when others were avant-garde (whether it was bop, free, or whatever). It appealed to the Lincoln Center type who bankroll such things. That's my opinion of his popularity.


i think you are correct.
 
2012-12-07 02:19:08 AM  

jso2897: Meh. I remember Davis speaking contemptuously of what he called "Crow Jim" in a Playboy interview - the tendency of some black jazz musicians to reflexively look down on white jazz musicians. Davis worked with anybody he liked - and that attitude extended the reach and breadth of his work. Paranoids like Mingus shut off entire avenues of their own potential experience, understandable though it may have been.


That's just not true. Mingus worked with plenty of white musicians - Jimmy Knepper, Charlie Mariano, Paul Motian, Jack Walrath, among others. His last collaboration was with Joni Mitchell.
 
2012-12-07 02:22:41 AM  

Omahawg: tbriggs: --How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy. --

In Davis' autobio he mentioned being paired with Steve Miller once in an attempt by his label to appeal to a rock audience. Miles referred to Miller as a no-talent-can't-play-mofo.

I agree.

me too. especially after boz scaggs left the band.


Thirded.
 
2012-12-07 02:23:03 AM  

The Goddamn Batman: This anecdote about Davis cracked me up, although I read it's just an urban legend.

Davis was a man of few words. When he did speak, his words often had a similar effect to a hand grenade being lobbed into the room. In 1987, he was invited to a White House dinner by Ronald Reagan. Few of the guests appeared to know who he was. During dinner, Nancy Reagan turned to him and asked what he'd done with his life to merit an invitation. Straight-faced, Davis replied: "Well, I've changed the course of music five or six times. What have you done except fark the president?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/sep/28/miles-davis-20- y ears


Miles tells this story in his autobiography, but it wasn't Nancy Reagan. He got stuck in a limo on the way to the dinner with some rich old white woman who asked him in a condescending tone, "oh, what do you do?" His answer was basically as described above, without the "farking the president" part.
 
2012-12-07 02:34:27 AM  

Tozmo: Tsar_Bomba1: Never understood Marsalis' popularity.

Family of musicians, the "second coming of Duke Ellington", and a clean image playing standards when others were avant-garde (whether it was bop, free, or whatever). It appealed to the Lincoln Center type who bankroll such things. That's my opinion of his popularity.


Good point.
 
2012-12-07 05:58:30 AM  

FunkJunkie: SevenizGud: Most over-rated musician of all time:

Miles Davis or Bob Dylan?

Discuss.

The Doors and The Eagles. All members individually, and the bands collectively.

On topic though (sort of), I'd say Dylan is more over-rated as a musician, but I've always respected him as a songwriter.


Bob Dylan is a hell of a rock-and-roll guitarist.

Maybe not up there in the top 20 or even the top 50, but I was IMPRESSED with his abilities to communucate via guitar.

/seen him 3 times
// once with tom petty
/// once with charlie sexton
/// once with archie roach and bonnie raitt
 
2012-12-07 08:40:16 AM  
All y'all shut yer pie holes and listen to this right now

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-07 09:16:57 AM  
ko_kyi

"I had the honor of meeting him, and he was a generous, humble, and beautiful person."

I have immense respect for Brubeck. Not only was he a truly great musician whose contribution to jazz was immense, he was by all accounts a warm, down-to-earth, and very nice guy with loads of integrity. I only regret I never got the chance to see him perform live. It was one thing I've always really wanted to do.

I've been fortunate to meet quite a few jazz musicians, and all of them I have met seemed to be very nice people who were genuinely appreciative of their fans.

While I love much of Miles Davis' music, (up until his late 60s output) he was famously a wife-abuser and general douche to most everyone. I've never heard any fellow artist say anything good about the man on a personal level.
 
2012-12-07 10:14:07 AM  

superspeck: I read Miles autobiography. Don't think he was a disciple of anybody (except himself perhaps). He was definitely not a fan of the white man, that's for sure. BUT, if you were a talented musician that happened to be white he would give you your props.


"They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along & spoil it." Thelonious Monk

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-07 11:50:39 AM  
How badass was Dave Brubeck? Miles Davis was his proud disciple

I hope this is concerning music and not beating the shait out of women.
 
2012-12-07 11:52:23 AM  

Rent Party: dickfreckle: Rent Party: / Just bought the re-issue of Kind of Blue

Was it a remaster or something? Because honestly, I can't see how you can make that album sound any better than it already does. I can't think of any albums that even approached that sound in 1959.

It was reissued on Legacy. Same artwork and everything.

And yeah it would be hard to improve on it.


This.

/has the reissue as well
 
2012-12-07 11:53:38 AM  

zappaisfrank: Miles' "Kind Of Blue" and Brubeck's "Time Out" both came out around the same time and were both landmark LP's that changed the face of music forever.

Brubeck also had the first ever jazz record be a top 40 commercial hit with "Take Five".

Brubeck also started experimenting with what was called "way out" jazz forms in the 1940's (the Octet recordings) and the early 1950's, decades before "biatches Brew".

By all reports I've heard, Brubeck was basically a nice guy...Davis was a conceited, moody prick.

I dunno..I'm thinking advantage Brubeck here.


Pretty much. Miles: Musical genius, conceited asshole. Dave: Musical genius, nice guy.
 
2012-12-07 11:58:16 AM  

drumsac: jso2897: Meh. I remember Davis speaking contemptuously of what he called "Crow Jim" in a Playboy interview - the tendency of some black jazz musicians to reflexively look down on white jazz musicians. Davis worked with anybody he liked - and that attitude extended the reach and breadth of his work. Paranoids like Mingus shut off entire avenues of their own potential experience, understandable though it may have been.

That's just not true. Mingus worked with plenty of white musicians - Jimmy Knepper, Charlie Mariano, Paul Motian, Jack Walrath, among others. His last collaboration was with Joni Mitchell.


You need to read his autobiography. It would clarify what I am talking about for you - I wasn't using the word "paranoid" in the colloquial sense.
 
2012-12-07 12:03:07 PM  

D_Evans45: for good or for awesome: How is that awesome? Miles Davis pretty much loved everybody. He was just that kind of guy.


Is that sarcasm? I like his music, but he was widely known as a racist.


Yeah, I heard a interview on NPR where they had him listen to some music and he hated 99% of everything. He just busted on people without mercy.
Kind of funny.
 
2012-12-07 02:42:12 PM  
I remember in the early 1980's when Miles Davis was a musical guest on "Saturday Night Live".

Whomever the main guest host was introduced him like he was introducing God himself..."Mister MILES DAVIS!!!!"

The band started and Miles played a few notes as part of the opening signature of the song. Then the sax player did a solo spot, after which they returned to the opening figure where Davis played a few notes like at the beginning. Then the keyboard player does a solo spot, followed by the same recap of the opening figure. The band brought themselves down as Miles prepared to play his solo spot..amid breathless anticipation, Miles bent over and went "BLEEBLEEBLEEBLEEEEBLEEBLEEBLEEBLEEBLEEBLEEBLEAT!"...back and forth between two notes for slightly less than three actual seconds. Then the band finished up, song over, wild applause.

I don't believe the face of music was changed that particular night.
 
2012-12-07 02:55:23 PM  
Rwa2play

"...honestly, I can't see how you can make that album (Kind Of Blue) sound any better than it already does. I can't think of any albums that even approached that sound in 1959."

You'd be surprised. A lot of jazz albums back then (and even farther back, yet) sounded impeccable. They were pretty picky when it came to the sound quality of jazz records. Most of the Blue Note catalog of that era sounded excellent, as did many of the Prestige & Riverside titles. But you're right, KOB is a terrific sounding record. Brubeck's "Time Out" was quite hi-fi, too.

browneye

Headline: How badass was Dave Brubeck? Miles Davis was his proud disciple

"I hope this is concerning music and not beating the shait out of women."

If Miles were Dave's disciple in the woman beating department, Miles' wives would have much preferred it, I think... :-) (I know what ya meant, tho.)
 
2012-12-07 05:11:36 PM  
'badass' ? Big farking stretch
 
2012-12-09 02:37:10 AM  

jso2897: drumsac: jso2897: Meh. I remember Davis speaking contemptuously of what he called "Crow Jim" in a Playboy interview - the tendency of some black jazz musicians to reflexively look down on white jazz musicians. Davis worked with anybody he liked - and that attitude extended the reach and breadth of his work. Paranoids like Mingus shut off entire avenues of their own potential experience, understandable though it may have been.

That's just not true. Mingus worked with plenty of white musicians - Jimmy Knepper, Charlie Mariano, Paul Motian, Jack Walrath, among others. His last collaboration was with Joni Mitchell.

You need to read his autobiography. It would clarify what I am talking about for you - I wasn't using the word "paranoid" in the colloquial sense.


Oh, I see what you're saying now, my bad. I tried to read the autobiography many years ago and couldn't get very far into it, but I did see the old documentary that includes him getting evicted from his apartment. He was a strange one for sure.
 
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