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(Yahoo)   Don't tell Nicholas Cage, but there might be a missing amendment to the US Constitution out there   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 119
    More: Interesting, Titles of Nobility Amendment, United States, Iowa GOP, Freemasons, 12th amendment, John Quincy Adams, constitutions, War of 1812  
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6599 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Dec 2012 at 2:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 02:22:40 PM
Sounds like bullshiat.
 
2012-12-06 02:22:52 PM
Study it out.
 
2012-12-06 02:23:06 PM
This sounds really not interesting.
 
2012-12-06 02:23:25 PM
And as soon as Obonghit Bareefer admits to being Kenyan Royalty, we can boot him out!
 
2012-12-06 02:24:41 PM
Oh noes! We'll have to posthumously strip citizenship from William Waldor Astor and Grace Kelly!
 
2012-12-06 02:24:45 PM
Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.
 
2012-12-06 02:25:14 PM
The Iowa Republicans didn't want the current 13th Amendment banned; they just wanted the "original" one reintroduced for approval.

That "missing" proposal was called the "Titles of Nobility Amendment" (or TONA). It sought to ban any American citizen from receiving any foreign title of nobility or receiving foreign favors, such as a pension, without congressional approval. The penalty was loss of citizenship.


Glad to see the Republicans of Iowa focused on the crucial issues facing their state.
 
2012-12-06 02:25:47 PM
Then its not an amendment is it?
 
2012-12-06 02:26:08 PM
That was indeed a proposed amendment, however it was meant to punish those Americans who still had strong connections to England. It was stupid amendment and is only brought up because of the History Channel-ization of history.
 
2012-12-06 02:26:31 PM
Maybe we could take up a collection and buy some straws for the GOP to grasp at, since they don't appear to have any actual ones left.
 
2012-12-06 02:28:02 PM
Does receiving money from your tax free Cayman Islands bank accounts count as " or receiving foreign favors, such as a pension"?
 
2012-12-06 02:29:18 PM

qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.


Nobel Peace PRIZE
TITLES OF NOBILITY Amendment

Methinks you may want to reexamine that argument.
 
2012-12-06 02:29:18 PM
Or it could be used to remove President Obama's citizenship, since he received a Nobel prize, which would be considered a foreign pension (the $1m prize money).

/tinfoil, anyone?
 
2012-12-06 02:29:41 PM

FishyFred: Oh noes! We'll have to posthumously strip citizenship from William Waldor Astor and Grace Kelly!


Well it could mean Eisenhower was retroactively ineligible to be President, since I assume he was made a Knight of the Round Table or whatever honors Britain gave out after WWII.
 
2012-12-06 02:29:50 PM
"Thirteenthers" are one of the more innocent conspiracy groups these days. Their argument is literally "12 out of 13 states needed to ratify it did so, and a 13th state did too but let's ignore that the records can't confirm if it passed or failed and the fact that by the time they had voted on it more states had been added so they were no longer the deciding vote."

Haven't seen anyone try in a while, but a few Birthers did try to latch onto this a few years back. "Obama didn't get Congressional approval to win a Nobel Prize, so he's no longer President!"
 
2012-12-06 02:30:44 PM
Wouldn't that fark over Rupert Murdoch? why do republicans want to do that to the one who tells them what to think and say?
 
2012-12-06 02:31:23 PM

WTF Indeed: That was indeed a proposed amendment, however it was meant to punish those Americans who still had strong connections to England. It was stupid amendment and is only brought up because of the History Channel-ization of history.


Actually, it could still be useful, in some ways. No American should be receiving foreign favors or money, as a citizen, except in business transactions approved by law. So say, we wouldn't want Country X funding a political campaign, or regulator, etc, in order to get preferable treatment.
 
2012-12-06 02:31:35 PM

KarmicDisaster: Does receiving money from your tax free Cayman Islands bank accounts count as " or receiving foreign favors, such as a pension"?


I think so. Strip all them "jerb creaters" of their citizenshiat and tell 'em dey ain't reel 'Muricans. Whaargarrble!
 
2012-12-06 02:31:35 PM
www.deviantart.com
 
2012-12-06 02:32:05 PM
But what will I do with my Royal seal I purchased off the internets, i'll lose my free handouts.
 
2012-12-06 02:32:44 PM

Dr Dreidel: qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel Peace PRIZE
TITLES OF NOBILITY Amendment

Methinks you may want to reexamine that argument.


Right, because the amendment's legal force is limited to its title text.

"[TONA] sought to ban any American citizen from receiving any foreign title of nobility or receiving foreign favors"

You're crazy if you think the modern GOP wouldn't try and use this in connection with the Peace Prize.
 
2012-12-06 02:34:58 PM
www.cracked.com
 
2012-12-06 02:35:27 PM
I dunno, this is kind of a neat view into an old political issue. I can't imagine any reasonable person having particularly strong feelings about it in this day and age, though, I guess unless you really have a hair up your ass about Steven Spielberg or George H.W. Bush...
 
2012-12-06 02:35:30 PM
Huh. I can't imagine why they are bringing this up n(black Kenyan usurper)ow.
 
2012-12-06 02:35:49 PM

Dr Dreidel: qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel Peace PRIZE
TITLES OF NOBILITY Amendment

Methinks you may want to reexamine that argument.


It also bans receiving a foreign favors or pensions, and in their minds that includes the $1.4 million purse associated with Obama's award. Sure Obama gave the money to charity, but he didn't get Congressional approval to give the money to charity!

Also, this would prove once and for all that Paul Krugman and Steven Chu are unamerican.
 
2012-12-06 02:35:53 PM

Antimatter: Actually, it could still be useful, in some ways. No American should be receiving foreign favors or money, as a citizen, except in business transactions approved by law. So say, we wouldn't want Country X funding a political campaign, or regulator, etc, in order to get preferable treatment.


Guess what, foreign favors are already illegal. The real point was to remove any monarch influence from the country.
 
2012-12-06 02:36:47 PM
i1151.photobucket.com
No more taps on the shoulder with my sword, yank chaps.
And best of luck getting those "slaves" back onto the plantations!
 
2012-12-06 02:37:27 PM
By late 1812, a total of 12 states had approved the 13th Amendment and ironically, it needed a 13th state to become ratified.

Calling all irony police, calling all irony police, incident reported in thread 7472279.
 
2012-12-06 02:39:41 PM
Wouldn't every ammendment ever proposed fall into the same category of "missing"?

I don't get it. Approximately 11,372 measures have been proposed to amend the Constitution from 1789 through December 31, 2008. If Wikipedia is to be belived. Which it is.
 
2012-12-06 02:40:10 PM

Grungehamster: Dr Dreidel: qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel Peace PRIZE
TITLES OF NOBILITY Amendment

Methinks you may want to reexamine that argument.

It also bans receiving a foreign favors or pensions, and in their minds that includes the $1.4 million purse associated with Obama's award. Sure Obama gave the money to charity, but he didn't get Congressional approval to give the money to charity!

Also, this would prove once and for all that Paul Krugman and Steven Chu are unamerican.


You both missed the point. Obama wasn't awarded a title of nobility, he won a prize. If he was awarded such a title, pray tell what is it - "Nobel Peace Prize Winner"? Does that mean Americans also can't win Olympic medals when the Games happen outside the US (absent Congressional approval)?
 
2012-12-06 02:40:16 PM

Would "receiving foreign favors" include when the Thai prime minister snuck into Obama's bed chamber during his recent state visit?


globalbalita.com
tastythailand.com
 
2012-12-06 02:40:58 PM
The Iowa Republicans didn't want the current 13th Amendment banned; they just wanted the "original" one reintroduced for approval.

Yeah, when Republicans say they want to repeal the 13th amendment they mean the almost passed super secret pseudo 13th, not the one currently and legally on the books.

Wtf is this? Is the mainstream media trolling now or is it honestly this terrible?
 
2012-12-06 02:41:47 PM

Dr Dreidel: Grungehamster: Dr Dreidel: qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel Peace PRIZE
TITLES OF NOBILITY Amendment

Methinks you may want to reexamine that argument.

It also bans receiving a foreign favors or pensions, and in their minds that includes the $1.4 million purse associated with Obama's award. Sure Obama gave the money to charity, but he didn't get Congressional approval to give the money to charity!

Also, this would prove once and for all that Paul Krugman and Steven Chu are unamerican.

You both missed the point. Obama wasn't awarded a title of nobility, he won a prize. If he was awarded such a title, pray tell what is it - "Nobel Peace Prize Winner"? Does that mean Americans also can't win Olympic medals when the Games happen outside the US (absent Congressional approval)?


The amendment covers things other than direct titles of nobility.
 
2012-12-06 02:41:58 PM
Oh God,

Not this crap again.

TONA is a long debunked piece of nonsense.

Grungehamster:
"Thirteenthers" are one of the more innocent conspiracy groups these days. Their argument is literally "12 out of 13 states needed to ratify it did so, and a 13th state did too but let's ignore that the records can't confirm if it passed or failed and the fact that by the time they had voted on it more states had been added so they were no longer the deciding vote."

Haven't seen anyone try in a while, but a few Birthers did try to latch onto this a few years back. "Obama didn't get Congressional approval to win a Nobel Prize, so he's no longer President!"


This is the only reason it comes up, as a desperate grabbing-at-straws to discredit President Obama, and you just succinctly explained why it's bullshiat.
 
2012-12-06 02:42:07 PM

Arkanaut: By late 1812, a total of 12 states had approved the 13th Amendment and ironically, it needed a 13th state to become ratified.

Calling all irony police, calling all irony police, incident reported in thread 7472279.


It's like raaaiiinnn... on your proposed amendment.
 
2012-12-06 02:44:43 PM

Dr Dreidel: You both missed the point. Obama wasn't awarded a title of nobility, he won a prize. If he was awarded such a title, pray tell what is it - "Nobel Peace Prize Winner"? Does that mean Americans also can't win Olympic medals when the Games happen outside the US (absent Congressional approval)?


The Nobel Prize is a different case because it is awarded by a committee appointed by the Norwegian Government rather than by a NGO.
 
2012-12-06 02:48:16 PM
They can't prove he was born in Kenya...but they can damn well prove he won a foreign prize without congressional approval.

1) Get it passed
2) Attack Obama
3) ????
4) Profit
 
2012-12-06 02:48:43 PM
For anyone interested, here's the full text of the amendment.

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain, any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."
 
2012-12-06 02:49:31 PM
Wow, uh, apparently there was an amendment added to the Constitution in my lifetime. I never heard about the 27th Amendment. Considering I was taking high school Civics at the time, you'd think my teacher would have mentioned something. Then again, he was the basketball coach...
 
2012-12-06 02:50:03 PM

qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.


FTA: In the 1980s, Adler says a conspiracy researcher started finding copies of the Constitution from the pre-Civil War era that had TONA listed as the 13th Amendment.

Obama time machine?
 
2012-12-06 02:50:58 PM

mgshamster: qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.

FTA: In the 1980s, Adler says a conspiracy researcher started finding copies of the Constitution from the pre-Civil War era that had TONA listed as the 13th Amendment.

Obama time machine?


No one was talking about re-opening a push for ratification in 1980.
 
2012-12-06 02:52:12 PM

Hastor: The Iowa Republicans didn't want the current 13th Amendment banned; they just wanted the "original" one reintroduced for approval.

Yeah, when Republicans say they want to repeal the 13th amendment they mean the almost passed super secret pseudo 13th, not the one currently and legally on the books.

Wtf is this? Is the mainstream media trolling now or is it honestly this terrible?


They're not calling for the "secret" 13th Amendment to be repealed, they're calling for it to be written back in since most believe it being absent from most copies of the Constitution at the time and all copies of the Constitution currently published is that the New World Order* thought they had destroyed all copies of it from sometime before the Civil War to make sure the eventual takeover of America by a world government would be easier. However even by their own argument is based on ignoring the fact that the vote would have had to have taken place 4 years earlier than they said it did to have made the amendment law, unless the existance of the state of Louisiana is part of the conspiracy.

* - conspiracy group of choice really: Illuminati, reverse vampires, etc.
 
2012-12-06 02:52:26 PM
Even if they found it was valid now, it couldn't be applied retroactively, as it was confirmed as NOT valid by the gov't by President Monroe. So no one would have been expected to follow it in-between times.
 
2012-12-06 02:53:20 PM

qorkfiend: mgshamster: qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.

FTA: In the 1980s, Adler says a conspiracy researcher started finding copies of the Constitution from the pre-Civil War era that had TONA listed as the 13th Amendment.

Obama time machine?

No one was talking about re-opening a push for ratification in 1980.


FTA: "[TONA] isn't new but got a big burst of publicity thanks to the Iowa GOP's 2010 platform."

Ah. Yes, you are correct.
 
2012-12-06 02:55:38 PM

Silverstaff:
This is the only reason it comes up, as a desperate grabbing-at-straws to discredit President Obama, and you just succinctly explained why it's bullshiat.


And yet, conveniently forgotten...

www.assetstorage.co.uk
 
2012-12-06 02:57:04 PM
It's all a plot to get slavery back. Sure, it will only push back the abolition of slavery to the 14th amendment, but that is when the real plan goes into effect. It's obviously a very silly amendment in today's world, so the movement starts to repeal the new 13th amendment. Right when it's about to get repealed, BAM, pull the rug out, get rid of the new 13th amendment, making slavery once again the 13th amendment just in time for it to be repealed.
 
2012-12-06 02:59:12 PM

qorkfiend: Funny how a non-issue for almost 200 years becomes an issue as soon as a Democratic president wins the Nobel Peace Prize.


Actually, they directly stated that was one of the big reasons.
 
2012-12-06 02:59:55 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Dr Dreidel: You both missed the point. Obama wasn't awarded a title of nobility, he won a prize. If he was awarded such a title, pray tell what is it - "Nobel Peace Prize Winner"? Does that mean Americans also can't win Olympic medals when the Games happen outside the US (absent Congressional approval)?

The Nobel Prize is a different case because it is awarded by a committee appointed by the Norwegian Government rather than by a NGO.


THAT's a good argument. So any award of money from a foreign government source is disallowed? I assume payment (or in-kind) for services is still allowed.
 
2012-12-06 03:00:50 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Dr Dreidel: You both missed the point. Obama wasn't awarded a title of nobility, he won a prize. If he was awarded such a title, pray tell what is it - "Nobel Peace Prize Winner"? Does that mean Americans also can't win Olympic medals when the Games happen outside the US (absent Congressional approval)?

The Nobel Prize is a different case because it is awarded by a committee appointed by the Norwegian Government rather than by a NGO.


Additionally, it is actually handed out by the King of Norway (in a physical sense). I'm not sure how much that makes a difference, but given that this is a conspiracy anyway. . . .

\King Harald is pretty damn awesome.
 
2012-12-06 03:01:46 PM

19 Kilo: And as soon as Obonghit Bareefer admits to being Kenyan Royalty, we can boot him out!


Hey what the fark did I do?
 
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