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(Pro Football Talk)   Goodell wants to replace kickoffs with a 4th and 15 from your 30. In next years news, New England wins the Superbowl 150-3   (profootballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 160
    More: Stupid, Roger Goodell, New England, Super Bowl, onside kick, fake punt, Greg Schiano, long snapper, Ray Rice  
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3289 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 Dec 2012 at 5:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 02:08:32 PM  
The idea would be to remove completely the high-speed, open-field collisions between large men who dip their heads instinctively at impact and place extra pressure on the C3-C4 area of the spine.

Fark that, you're paid millions of dollars a year and I wanna see some high collision hits (as long as they're legal).

Might as well start moving toward flag football or two-hand touch.
 
2012-12-06 02:09:46 PM  
Better idea- kick off from the 15. No fair catches.
 
2012-12-06 02:13:12 PM  
Simple solution.  Increase the size of the roster.  Kickoff special teams is a special roster spot. Only Little People can be on that roster.  No other changes.
 
2012-12-06 02:15:40 PM  

scottydoesntknow: The idea would be to remove completely the high-speed, open-field collisions between large men who dip their heads instinctively at impact and place extra pressure on the C3-C4 area of the spine.

Fark that, you're paid millions of dollars a year and I wanna see some high collision hits (as long as they're legal).

Might as well start moving toward flag football or two-hand touch.


Not to mention that moving the kickoff up however many yards they did most recently was meant to curtail that sort of thing.
 
2012-12-06 02:20:16 PM  
You could just mandate that kick returners require air bags.
 
2012-12-06 02:30:39 PM  

I_C_Weener: Simple solution.  Increase the size of the roster.  Kickoff special teams is a special roster spot. Only Little People can be on that roster.  No other changes.


I like your idea of midget football. EIP for your newsletter.
 
2012-12-06 02:36:37 PM  
Next up, we're going to just change the entire game to college overtime rules. Start at the 25 every time and just alternate possessions. Look, no long pass plays to pull muscles on!
 
2012-12-06 02:43:03 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-12-06 02:45:46 PM  
Just start drives at the 25 and be done with it
 
2012-12-06 02:54:58 PM  
Well, every other thread had more intelligent comments than this one, but this one went green. So let's copy/paste those in:

dletter:

"As much as my team (the Bears) have basically depended on good kick returns over the past 5-6 years to set up the offense.... part of me is intrigued by this solution to the "kickoff" issue.

I am just intrigued by some of the strategic changes it would cause.....

1. A lot more teams I think would do the "new" onside kick (ie, run a regular play on the 4th & 15 play) in many more situations than they do now.

2. Games are essentially over if you have the lead and are "kicking off" with 5 seconds or less to go..... you'll just run a shotgun play, have the QB run around for a few seconds and then toss the ball up out of bounds.

3. Typical punt goes 45-55 yards, which would put where they would catch the ball at the 15-25. Unless you had a good cover scheme, I think you'd see a lot of teams fair catch most of these "kickoff" punts.

4. Increases punters value on teams. The kicker who kicks FG and kickoffs... the kickoff (other than successful onside kicking) doesn't really have a whole lot of "strategy".... it is generally "kick it as far as you can". So, the kicker doesn't lose much. The punter all of a sudden though is probably punting 4-5 times more per game.. even if his team is very successful.

I think a lot of people heard about "removing kickoffs" as something where you'd just give the team the ball on the 20 or something after a score. This at least replaces the kickoff with some interesting strategic options, and still a "kick return" in many cases."


myself:

Agreed - the only huge problem with it is what you do in the event of a penalty on the defense - it pretty much has to be an unwritten rule that defenses are allowed to get away with all but the most egregious fouls on plays like that.

It would be a pretty easy way to fix games/shave points/"increase interest" in the game if a trailing team scored, then had a penalty called on the defense on the ensuing 4th down try, and it kept happening.
 
2012-12-06 03:14:47 PM  
Wasn't Mara saying something stupid like this before the season started?
 
2012-12-06 03:19:54 PM  
Can we have an 'Idiot' tag for every time Goodell opens his mouth?

/did, however, like the one game in which Big Ben punted on 4th down just outside of field goal range to pin the other team
 
2012-12-06 03:19:57 PM  
That could be fun. You tie the game with 1 second left, throw the bomb on 4th & 15, and score the winning TD.
 
2012-12-06 03:28:33 PM  
Interesting, but would require better legislation of the pass interference penalty
 
2012-12-06 03:34:26 PM  
Just simulate the whole season on Madden.
 
2012-12-06 03:58:02 PM  
The owners shouldn't have caved last year, there have been zero injuries in NHL games this year.
 
2012-12-06 04:37:09 PM  

tricycleracer: That could be fun. You tie the game with 1 second left, throw the bomb on 4th & 15, and score the winning TD.


The 4th & 15 starts from the 30.... There are not a whole lot of QBs that can throw it 75 yards very well.

I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.
 
2012-12-06 04:44:09 PM  

dletter: tricycleracer: That could be fun. You tie the game with 1 second left, throw the bomb on 4th & 15, and score the winning TD.

The 4th & 15 starts from the 30.... There are not a whole lot of QBs that can throw it 75 yards very well.

I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.


You will get a lot more games with 14 and 10 pt swings at the end.
 
2012-12-06 04:48:56 PM  
Yes, this is more Mara stupidity:

Link
 
2012-12-06 05:21:19 PM  
Ugh.  More nonsense.
 
2012-12-06 05:41:45 PM  

dletter: I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.


You'd be wrong - onside kicks have about a 26% success rate. Going for it on 4th and 15 has a 14% success rate. A fake punt on 4th and 15 slightly improves the chances, at 18%.

/yes I'm a blast at parties
 
2012-12-06 05:44:41 PM  

IAmRight: Agreed - the only huge problem with it is what you do in the event of a penalty on the defense - it pretty much has to be an unwritten rule that defenses are allowed to get away with all but the most egregious fouls on plays like that.


i hadn't thought of this, the penalty aspect makes it much, much easier for a kicking team to convert the new version of an onside kick.
 
2012-12-06 05:49:07 PM  

dethmagnetic: dletter: I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.

You'd be wrong - onside kicks have about a 26% success rate. Going for it on 4th and 15 has a 14% success rate. A fake punt on 4th and 15 slightly improves the chances, at 18%.

/yes I'm a blast at parties


from your link, i think you have to go with the lower 20% success rate for onside kicks, since going for it on 4th and 15 would be the equivalent of an opposing team expecting the onside kick and lining up against it. otherwise the point stands, assuming your 14% success rate for 4th and 15 includes penalties that allow for the down to be repeated (e.g. offsides) or penalties that outright reward a first down.
 
2012-12-06 06:03:49 PM  
How about instead of replacing it you give the receiving team the choice of either? I know there are sometimes (rarely) return kickoffs to end a game (for the win) but then you have to decide hmm trust my special teams or my awesome/horrible offense. I mean I know there are some teams who'd probably rather throw a hail mary with 3 seconds left than have a KO return. Plus they could design places specifically for this, which would be interesting.
 
2012-12-06 06:05:38 PM  
a248.e.akamai.net

Roger Goodell you're gonna lose all your fancy foosball fans.
 
2012-12-06 06:07:15 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Just start drives at the 25 and be done with it


That eliminates the chance to get the ball back for a team that's trailing. In the new scenario, the onside kick is replaced by the opportunity to try a 4th and 15 play.

I would think 4th and 15 is a much greater chance of converting than recovering an onside kick.
 
2012-12-06 06:07:59 PM  

thomps: IAmRight: Agreed - the only huge problem with it is what you do in the event of a penalty on the defense - it pretty much has to be an unwritten rule that defenses are allowed to get away with all but the most egregious fouls on plays like that.

i hadn't thought of this, the penalty aspect makes it much, much easier for a kicking team to convert the new version of an onside kick.


Take away the idiotic automatic first down on 5-yard defensive holding penalties, and I'd consider it.

Actually, I'd like to see them get rid of automatic first downs on everything except personal fouls, to be honest...
 
2012-12-06 06:10:11 PM  
If kicks are so dangerous just do away with them. At the start of each half (and overtime periods) the ball starts on the 20. If a team kicks a field goal, the opposing team starts on the 25. If a team scores a touchdown the opposing team starts on the 15. That will reward touchdowns while making the game safer and more interesting strategywise.

/keep the kickoffs
 
2012-12-06 06:16:19 PM  
This would also bring in to play the possibility of blocking "kickoffs".
 
2012-12-06 06:16:47 PM  
How about developing an actual test for HGH and enforcing penalties for it?

Bu...bu...but the size, speed, and strength of players today is because of the incredible advancements we've made in training and nutrition over the last thirty years.

Yeah. fark off.
 
2012-12-06 06:17:48 PM  

dletter: tricycleracer: That could be fun. You tie the game with 1 second left, throw the bomb on 4th & 15, and score the winning TD.

The 4th & 15 starts from the 30.... There are not a whole lot of QBs that can throw it 75 yards very well.

I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.


I like this idea, I miss watching JaMarcus Russell throw a 75 yard bomb.
 
2012-12-06 06:18:17 PM  

bluorangefyre: Can we have an 'Idiot' tag for every time Goodell opens his mouth?


i1222.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-06 06:20:06 PM  
If it changes the NFL commercial break schedule to something other than touchdown, extra point, commercial, kick off, commercial I'm okay with it although it would probably still stay the same with the 4th and 15 play lodged between commercial breaks
 
2012-12-06 06:20:43 PM  
In addition to the defensive-penalty problem, this would also introduce the intriguing-but-potentially-unpleasant possibility of kickoffs getting blocked.

A variant of the CFL's kickoff rules might work here. If you score a touchdown, you kick off. If you score a field goal, the other team has a choice: they can either have you kick off, or they can just immediately take the ball at their own 25.
 
2012-12-06 06:23:39 PM  
You guys are missing the entire point. DVRs aside, the goal is to keep the audience in front of the TV between scores.

With the current approach, I take a break after a TD and then resume interaction when the other team takes over after the kick. No incentive to stay in between the break and see what I might miss on that 1 junk play.
 
2012-12-06 06:24:26 PM  

scottydoesntknow: The idea would be to remove completely the high-speed, open-field collisions between large men who dip their heads instinctively at impact and place extra pressure on the C3-C4 area of the spine.

Fark that, you're paid millions of dollars a year and I wanna see some high collision hits (as long as they're legal).

Might as well start moving toward flag football or two-hand touch.


I'm going to assume this is sarcasm and not simply stupidity.

bluorangefyre: Can we have an 'Idiot' tag for every time Goodell opens his mouth?


Can we get the fark over this nonsense? Yes, the league is having trouble fleshing out a coherent system for penalizing dangerous hits, but IT HAS TO BE DONE. This game HAS to get safer, and Goddell has at least tried to get in front of this issue, even if his motives aren't all that altruistic.

But Goddell and the owners saw what happened when baseball buried its head in the sand and then Selig and Fehr got called before Congress and got publicly shamed for their inactivity on the steroid issue. The federal government threatened major intervention in the sport once before for the purposes of safety, and they'll damn sure do it again if a player takes a bad hit and gets killed on the field. And the league has decided it's a hell of a lot better to institute preventative measures, particularly changing the culture of playing defense. And changing twenty years of badly prioritized coaching isn't going to happen over night.

And kickoffs are an even bigger problem, because there is no other play in the game where the people colliding with each other get a 40-yard head start. Goddell is floating this idea as a trial balloon, because eventually it will change. Because it HAS to. And you might at least be happy that the powers that be are gauging public reaction and taking the time to figure out the best confluence of safety and competitive balance - or would you rather see the commissioner so many of you refer to as a tyrant just announce a complete change starting next season?
 
2012-12-06 06:24:59 PM  

dletter: tricycleracer: That could be fun. You tie the game with 1 second left, throw the bomb on 4th & 15, and score the winning TD.

The 4th & 15 starts from the 30.... There are not a whole lot of QBs that can throw it 75 yards very well.

I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.


aravan.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-06 06:25:41 PM  

thomps: dethmagnetic: dletter: I have to imagine though converting 4th & 15's has a higher % than recovering onside kicks, so, that part of it would make trying to come back at the end's of games much more interesting.

You'd be wrong - onside kicks have about a 26% success rate. Going for it on 4th and 15 has a 14% success rate. A fake punt on 4th and 15 slightly improves the chances, at 18%.

/yes I'm a blast at parties

from your link, i think you have to go with the lower 20% success rate for onside kicks, since going for it on 4th and 15 would be the equivalent of an opposing team expecting the onside kick and lining up against it. otherwise the point stands, assuming your 14% success rate for 4th and 15 includes penalties that allow for the down to be repeated (e.g. offsides) or penalties that outright reward a first down.


Plus do these stats count the new inside kick rules that make the conversion much harder?
 
2012-12-06 06:26:05 PM  

bennett311: You guys are missing the entire point. DVRs aside, the goal is to keep the audience in front of the TV between scores.

With the current approach, I take a break after a TD and then resume interaction when the other team takes over after the kick. No incentive to stay in between the break and see what I might miss on that 1 junk play.


Bullshiat. The NFL wants you to watch commercials.
 
2012-12-06 06:28:13 PM  

bennett311: You guys are missing the entire point. DVRs aside, the goal is to keep the audience in front of the TV between scores.

With the current approach, I take a break after a TD and then resume interaction when the other team takes over after the kick. No incentive to stay in between the break and see what I might miss on that 1 junk play.


Good call. Although, do they really care if you're in front of the TV already and have the TV on that channel and they're getting your ratings? Of course I guess some people do turn the channel in between, but if they do that they're doing it in game anyway.
 
2012-12-06 06:28:35 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Just start drives at the 25 and be done with it


Not sure if it's been covered, but this kills the onside kick, which is a pretty big decision play. 4th and 15 gives them the low-percentage success simulation of the onside kick decision.

/I don't like it.
 
2012-12-06 06:29:40 PM  

CreamFilling: Just simulate the whole season on Madden.


And risk players getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?!?
 
2012-12-06 06:33:07 PM  
BETTER IDEA: Roger Goodell sucks my dick so hard, the only thing he'll ever taste for the remainder of his natural life will by my cock! >:-(
 
2012-12-06 06:33:59 PM  

I_C_Weener: Simple solution.  Increase the size of the roster.  Kickoff special teams is a special roster spot. Only Little People can be on that roster.  No other changes.


Midgets? I love this idea.
 
2012-12-06 06:37:08 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Just start drives at the 25 and be done with it


Can't. Non onside kick. Going for it on 4th and 15 is supposed to be the equivalent. It's not of course. Far easier with pass interference calls. It's fine as it is. You want to play in the NFL? Sign a waiver that you acknowledge the risk.
 
2012-12-06 06:43:35 PM  

UNC_Samurai: scottydoesntknow: The idea would be to remove completely the high-speed, open-field collisions between large men who dip their heads instinctively at impact and place extra pressure on the C3-C4 area of the spine.

Fark that, you're paid millions of dollars a year and I wanna see some high collision hits (as long as they're legal).

Might as well start moving toward flag football or two-hand touch.

I'm going to assume this is sarcasm and not simply stupidity.

bluorangefyre: Can we have an 'Idiot' tag for every time Goodell opens his mouth?

Can we get the fark over this nonsense? Yes, the league is having trouble fleshing out a coherent system for penalizing dangerous hits, but IT HAS TO BE DONE. This game HAS to get safer, and Goddell has at least tried to get in front of this issue, even if his motives aren't all that altruistic.

But Goddell and the owners saw what happened when baseball buried its head in the sand and then Selig and Fehr got called before Congress and got publicly shamed for their inactivity on the steroid issue. The federal government threatened major intervention in the sport once before for the purposes of safety, and they'll damn sure do it again if a player takes a bad hit and gets killed on the field. And the league has decided it's a hell of a lot better to institute preventative measures, particularly changing the culture of playing defense. And changing twenty years of badly prioritized coaching isn't going to happen over night.

And kickoffs are an even bigger problem, because there is no other play in the game where the people colliding with each other get a 40-yard head start. Goddell is floating this idea as a trial balloon, because eventually it will change. Because it HAS to. And you might at least be happy that the powers that be are gauging public reaction and taking the time to figure out the best confluence of safety and competitive balance - or would you rather see the commissioner so many of you refer to as a tyran ...


I might believe you if Thursday night games didn't exist all season and if Goodell didn't try to have an 18 week season. Goodell doesn't give 2 shiats about player safety. He just gives a shiat about making everyone else think that he gives a shiat.
 
2012-12-06 06:44:32 PM  
If the NFL implements this, someone needs to start a league that does nothing but kickoffs.
 
2012-12-06 06:46:18 PM  
I think the game should be nothing but kick-offs and field goals. No plays from scrimmage.
 
2012-12-06 06:46:37 PM  
'Nuff said

i260.photobucket.com

/Link hotter than that fellow's thighs...
 
2012-12-06 06:47:05 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Just start drives at the 25 and be done with it


Or allow the team that just scored the opportunity for an onside kick or the 4th and 15 thing. Their choice. There all better
 
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