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(Huffington Post)   Top 2% to GOP: Tax us, you dolts   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 286
    More: Obvious, GOP, human beings, United Technologies Corp., National Press, Pratt & Whitney, Scott DesJarlais, John Thune, aerospace industry  
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6057 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Dec 2012 at 1:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 01:18:22 PM  

DamnYankees: To be fair to the GOP, this is sort of dumb. Rich people do want tax cuts. Anecdotally pulling out a few people who don't doesn't mean anything.

If you want to argue the GOP shouldn't listen to its base, go for it. But the base is the base.


Not to burst your bubble, but they aren't listening to their base. Among other things:

- Only 15% of Republicans believe that it is a good idea for Congressmen to pledge never to raise taxes under any cirumstances. 77% of Republicans think it is a bad idea.
- Among Americans who make more than $250,000 a year, 87% think it a pledge to never raise taxes under any circumstances is a bad idea.
- 54% of Americans who make more than $250,000 a year think it is a good idea to reduce the deficit by raising income tax rates on people who make more than $250,000 a year.
- 52% of these Americans believe it is a good idea to reduce the deficit by raising the capital gains tax rate. This result is especially strange because it is the highest level of support of any income bracket, and the lowest support comes from people who make less than $50,000 a year.
 
2012-12-06 01:18:22 PM  

DamnYankees: To be fair to the GOP, this is sort of dumb. Rich people do want tax cuts. Anecdotally pulling out a few people who don't doesn't mean anything.

If you want to argue the GOP shouldn't listen to its base, go for it. But the base is the base.


I was thinking the same thing--and it being published in the Huffington Post doesn't exactly scream out credibility.

Though I do wish it did.
 
2012-12-06 01:18:45 PM  

lennavan: Last one off my chest - we have a blind guy who married into the family who has been on government assistance for 30+ years who biatches about the government and wears a "I don't need sex, the government screws me every day" t shirt. Really dude?


Wow.
 
2012-12-06 01:21:34 PM  

sammyk: DamnYankees: To be fair to the GOP, this is sort of dumb. Rich people do want tax cuts. Anecdotally pulling out a few people who don't doesn't mean anything.

If you want to argue the GOP shouldn't listen to its base, go for it. But the base is the base.

%2 of the population constitutes a base?


No 2% of the base is wealthy and 98% of the base is retarded.
 
2012-12-06 01:21:43 PM  
Lol, the ultra rich stand to lose substantially more from the GOPs fiscally-irresponsible temper tantrum than they do from the taxes. That is so awesome, soon only the God botherers will be voting GOP. If the markets tank and the rich lose A LOT of money they won't even vote for the GOP anymore and more importantly they wn't donate money. I love it, the GOP is slowly hurting the people it's "protecting". And then telling them it's in their best interest. No, no... I know better than you, this is for your own good; trust me.
 
2012-12-06 01:21:44 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Weaver95: Jackson Herring: [j.wigflip.com image 553x768] 

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 292x302]

[p.twimg.com image 500x375]


Can we get a "Hai guys, what's going on here?" stingray photobomb shop for that?
 
2012-12-06 01:22:44 PM  
Is there anything better than the GOP melting completely down in the face of a growing majority of people who think they are idiots that know nothing about the economy?

This is glorious. I don't want to get too excited, but the party is going into its death throes, right? Factions are fighting for the party's soul while, right there on the national stage, they fiddle actively start more fires as Rome burns.
 
2012-12-06 01:23:29 PM  
I amazed that ~ 150 or so people in the House can hold the economy hostage, increase the deficit and debt through inaction (by allowing the credit rating to decrease, increasing our debt servicing costs), for something that a majority of the US and very many people who will be impacted directly say we should do, and that is increase the tax rates on the top 2%.

Carn: DING DING DING DING! This really should end all arguments right there. But, potato.


But those wars will pay for themselves! We really should have enacted a war tax to pay for them and to give Americans a direct financial reminder every two weeks that yes, we are still at war.
 
2012-12-06 01:23:57 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: lennavan: Last one off my chest - we have a blind guy who married into the family who has been on government assistance for 30+ years who biatches about the government and wears a "I don't need sex, the government screws me every day" t shirt. Really dude?

Wow.


Is he biatching because he doesn't get ENOUGH govt money? Maybe he doesn't know that he owns that shirt.
 
2012-12-06 01:25:11 PM  

t3knomanser: I love the, "Well, why don't they just pay more voluntarily?"

Because the IRS can't actually use that money. Overpayments get banked into an account for the overpayer. They can collect interest, and they can be applied to future liabilities, but the IRS can't keep that money. In fact, if you overpay, you can go back to the IRS and get that refund from them.

I actually overpayed recently due to some confusion. It was trivially easy to get my money back, and the IRS has some of the best customer service I have ever experienced.


That's only if you overpay. You can give money directly to the US treasury to reduce the public debt. It's different that just sending a check to the IRS. In FY12 only $7.7 million or so was gifted in this manner which is more than the last two years combined, but still relatively pitiful compared to the Federal budget.
 
2012-12-06 01:26:03 PM  

Pinner: rufus-t-firefly: Weaver95: Jackson Herring: [j.wigflip.com image 553x768] 

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 292x302]

[p.twimg.com image 500x375]

Can we get a "Hai guys, what's going on here?" stingray photobomb shop for that?


I was thinking a "Welcome to Washington/Minnesota/Maine/Maryland" sign.
 
2012-12-06 01:26:12 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Lol, the ultra rich stand to lose substantially more from the GOPs fiscally-irresponsible temper tantrum than they do from the taxes. That is so awesome, soon only the God botherers will be voting GOP. If the markets tank and the rich lose A LOT of money they won't even vote for the GOP anymore and more importantly they wn't donate money. I love it, the GOP is slowly hurting the people it's "protecting". And then telling them it's in their best interest. No, no... I know better than you, this is for your own good; trust me.


The Ultra-Rich have done better with Republicans out of the way for decades. What they gain in tax breaks from the GOP in control, they more than lose with their investments stagnating / tanking.

i27.tinypic.com

I'm surprised more of them haven't figured this out yet. But then again, a lot of them didn't have to work for their money. Just wait for daddy to die, and pass yourself off as a 'Job Creator'...
 
2012-12-06 01:28:36 PM  

Serious Black: Not to burst your bubble, but they aren't listening to their base.


Actually, they are. This is their base:

i159.photobucket.com

These guys (and a few more like them) provide the means to fool, scare and cajole stupid people to vote for them.
 
2012-12-06 01:28:43 PM  

Pinner: Maybe he doesn't know that he owns that shirt.


Okay, this made me laugh a bit too loudly.
 
2012-12-06 01:28:52 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Weaver95: Jackson Herring: [j.wigflip.com image 553x768] 

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 292x302]

[p.twimg.com image 500x375]


Well that was disturbing.
 
2012-12-06 01:29:26 PM  

Smelly McUgly: Is there anything better than the GOP melting completely down in the face of a growing majority of people who think they are idiots that know nothing about the economy?

This is glorious. I don't want to get too excited, but the party is going into its death throes, right? Factions are fighting for the party's soul while, right there on the national stage, they fiddle actively start more fires as Rome burns.


I wish that was true. It seems like it's true--but articles about the Republican meltdown from the Huffington Post may be just a bit skewed. It is compelling though, when I see polls that show more people for marijuana legalization, gay marriage, and pro-choice stances I'm pretty happy. It seems social conservatism is dying.

But--I also see a ton of people who feel like socially conservative views are morons. And they still vote for conservative lawmakers who openly support these views.
 
2012-12-06 01:31:30 PM  

DamnYankees: Rich people do want tax cuts.


More like: Rich greedy a-holes want tax cuts....who happen to vote Republican.
 
2012-12-06 01:31:42 PM  
Your Eyes (on national TV) say Yes, Yes, Yes.

But your Lobbyists (in the back room) say No, No, No...
 
2012-12-06 01:34:14 PM  
Anyone else notice the difference between many self made men and the ones that had everything handed to them by daddy?
 
2012-12-06 01:35:35 PM  

AirForceVet: I nonconcur there, Mugato, about not caring with the 2% pay. I found it offensive that Mitt Romney paid less of a percentage of his income that I do.


You should be offended. Hell, every American should be offended. Mitt Romney claims he never paid below 14%, which is a lower overall tax rate than the average person in the lowest quintile of income. Source: When all federal, state, and local taxes are taken into account, the bottom fifth of households pays about 16 percent of their incomes in taxes, on average.

Yes, that's comparing his income tax rate to their total taxes, but since he averaged $20 million a year income for the past decade, adding in his state and local taxes is unlikely to change the total percent he pays by much. Now, you tell me who is the one here who feels he is entitled to "free stuff"?

Fark Romney.
 
2012-12-06 01:37:03 PM  
Even the bomb makers and babby killers know you have to have taxes to buy their bullets.
 
2012-12-06 01:37:12 PM  

Jackpot777: Uchiha_Cycliste: Lol, the ultra rich stand to lose substantially more from the GOPs fiscally-irresponsible temper tantrum than they do from the taxes. That is so awesome, soon only the God botherers will be voting GOP. If the markets tank and the rich lose A LOT of money they won't even vote for the GOP anymore and more importantly they wn't donate money. I love it, the GOP is slowly hurting the people it's "protecting". And then telling them it's in their best interest. No, no... I know better than you, this is for your own good; trust me.

The Ultra-Rich have done better with Republicans out of the way for decades. What they gain in tax breaks from the GOP in control, they more than lose with their investments stagnating / tanking.

[i27.tinypic.com image 850x1100]

I'm surprised more of them haven't figured this out yet. But then again, a lot of them didn't have to work for their money. Just wait for daddy to die, and pass yourself off as a 'Job Creator'...


I think this time they may not come out ahead. The market seems to be much more in tune with the GOP farkery. A couple percent of income versus several percent on their investments strikes me as worse. Are their *incomes* that big?
 
2012-12-06 01:37:18 PM  

TimonC346: Smelly McUgly: Is there anything better than the GOP melting completely down in the face of a growing majority of people who think they are idiots that know nothing about the economy?

This is glorious. I don't want to get too excited, but the party is going into its death throes, right? Factions are fighting for the party's soul while, right there on the national stage, they fiddle actively start more fires as Rome burns.

I wish that was true. It seems like it's true--but articles about the Republican meltdown from the Huffington Post may be just a bit skewed. It is compelling though, when I see polls that show more people for marijuana legalization, gay marriage, and pro-choice stances I'm pretty happy. It seems social conservatism is dying.

But--I also see a ton of people who feel like socially conservative views are morons. And they still vote for conservative lawmakers who openly support these views.


I have a friend who has lived in poverty his entire life. His family has managed to exist almost entirely because of government assistance. He recognizes and openly admits that this is true. He supports gay marriage. He loves science and technology. He supports space travel and researching climate change. He is an atheist.

But--he likes guns and hates abortion, so he votes republican.
 
2012-12-06 01:39:09 PM  

lennavan: CapeFearCadaver: Bleg. I'll shut up. Guess I just needed to get that shiat off my chest.

I know what you mean. Really I want to say it to their faces but I won't, they're family and I have to see them around the holidays. We do our best to not talk about politics.

Last one off my chest - we have a blind guy who married into the family who has been on government assistance for 30+ years who biatches about the government and wears a "I don't need sex, the government screws me every day" t shirt. Really dude?


Back off, he has no idea what his shirt says.
 
2012-12-06 01:41:00 PM  

GiantRex: TimonC346: Smelly McUgly: Is there anything better than the GOP melting completely down in the face of a growing majority of people who think they are idiots that know nothing about the economy?

This is glorious. I don't want to get too excited, but the party is going into its death throes, right? Factions are fighting for the party's soul while, right there on the national stage, they fiddle actively start more fires as Rome burns.

I wish that was true. It seems like it's true--but articles about the Republican meltdown from the Huffington Post may be just a bit skewed. It is compelling though, when I see polls that show more people for marijuana legalization, gay marriage, and pro-choice stances I'm pretty happy. It seems social conservatism is dying.

But--I also see a ton of people who feel like socially conservative views are morons. And they still vote for conservative lawmakers who openly support these views.

I have a friend who has lived in poverty his entire life. His family has managed to exist almost entirely because of government assistance. He recognizes and openly admits that this is true. He supports gay marriage. He loves science and technology. He supports space travel and researching climate change. He is an atheist.

But--he likes guns and hates abortion, so he votes republican.


I know a lesbian like that. She's a former cop, that quit under pressure after she came out, that loves guns and thinks Democrats are too soft on crime. She's said that keeping her firearms is more important than marrying her partner.
 
2012-12-06 01:41:33 PM  

TV's Vinnie: You'll notice that the ones who are calling for a tax increase are the ones who worked their way up and earned their fortune.

It's the spoiled-rotten Trust Fund Brats like Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers, who have never, ever, had to spend a single day in their pampered lives going hungry, that are the ones screaming & whining like stabbed pigs about paying their fair share.


That Papa John's guy earned his fortune, and he sure is being a big dick over the ACA's supposed tax increases.
 
2012-12-06 01:45:08 PM  

xanadian: FTFA: Still, some Republicans have broken with their party and indicated their support for accepting President Barack Obama's proposal to extend tax cuts only for the first $250,000 of income. Last week, Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) urged fellow Republicans to agree to the president's tax plan, and since then a number of Republicans have made similar statements, including Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine.), Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), Rep. Kay Granger (R-Texas) and Rep. Robert Dold (R-Ill.).

Funny how when there's news of even a slight bit of sanity in the GOP, either Snowe or Collins is somehow linked to it.

That being said, I wonder how many of the more vocal conservatives on Fark truly understand the basics of how income tax works. I know *I* didn't for the longest time. There's no "hole" between tax brackets. The tax isn't on your total income, it's an increase on taxes OVER a certain dollar amount. I.e., if you were taxed 15% on $20k (just under the top of that bracket), and now you're in the $30k range with 20%, that's 15% on $20k PLUS 20% on the *additional* $10k.

I think I explained that right. My mother used to work for the IRS; but taxes bore the shiat out of me, so I probably wasn't listening very well that day.


When someone wants to have a serious discussion on taxes, federal debt, etc., there are two things I ask him. First is if he understands the basics of marginal taxes (which you explained) and the other is, very simply, who owns most of the U.S. debt (which it turns out Social Security combined with private U.S. citizens and institutions own about 67% of the U.S. debt; China owns about $1T, or around 5% and isn't even the largest foreign stakeholder). If the person gets those questions right, then we can proceed with the discussion.
 
2012-12-06 01:45:09 PM  

meat0918: Anyone else notice the difference between many self made men and the ones that had everything handed to them by daddy?


There are people who, no matter how they came into success, will look down from the hilltop, see the others who haven't made it, and say, "Hmph. If I could do it, why couldn't you? There must be something wrong with you if you didn't make it up here."

In my own experience it was some enlisted guys who became officers in the military, and suddenly freaked on anyone who didn't render a proper salute to them. It's not every guy who'd do that, but those would be in the bunch for sure.

Sometimes all a sociopath needs is a way to be one, and it all comes storming right out.
 
2012-12-06 01:45:11 PM  

Gulper Eel: They're the ones who've already found their loopholes of choice.


Raising taxes on them is the only way to motivate the lazy slacking wealthy elite who haven't been bootstrappy enough to find those loopholes. By taxing them we are doing them a favor!
 
2012-12-06 01:45:47 PM  

verbaltoxin: TV's Vinnie: You'll notice that the ones who are calling for a tax increase are the ones who worked their way up and earned their fortune.

It's the spoiled-rotten Trust Fund Brats like Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers, who have never, ever, had to spend a single day in their pampered lives going hungry, that are the ones screaming & whining like stabbed pigs about paying their fair share.

That Papa John's guy earned his fortune, and he sure is being a big dick over the ACA's supposed tax increases.


He's backed off it claiming it was just an example of what some businesses would do.

To be honest, cutting employee's hours back won't work in the long run. You'll lose the good employees, increase turnover, but on the plus side, you'll probably have to hire an extra body or two to fill the gaps in your service you created when you cut hours for people.

More people working is a good thing, even it if is at a shiatty minimum wage (or less for some food service workers but hey, at least they get tips).
 
2012-12-06 01:48:17 PM  

meat0918: I know a lesbian like that. She's a former cop, that quit under pressure after she came out, that loves guns and thinks Democrats are too soft on crime. She's said that keeping her firearms is more important than marrying her partner.


On the one hand, it was a GOP-affiliated group behind the Prop 8 lawsuit. On the other, Democrats like Jon Tester (D-MT) will be damned to the Muslim hell and back before they'll let some lily-livered Ivy-educated East Coast pointy-headed cracker-croaker take his guns.

So she's dumb from both ends?
 
2012-12-06 01:48:51 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: My father loves lambasting the 47%, his household and both of my sisters' households would be counted among those in the 47% of 'moochers'. I am the ONLY person in my family who pays a fair share of individual taxes and am beholden to no personal government assistance.

But I voted for Obama, so I'm just a dirty LIB looking for a handout.


Ever point this out to him?
 
2012-12-06 01:50:59 PM  
Please go ahead and write your checks directly to the government to pay down the debt. Then we'll talk.

No one is stopping these wealthy bozos from ponying up more cash. But yet, I never hear about one of them doing so.

Please go talk to the 'wealthy' who make between $200K and $1M a year. I have a feeling you wouldn't be getting the same answer from them.
 
2012-12-06 01:51:17 PM  

meat0918: verbaltoxin: TV's Vinnie: You'll notice that the ones who are calling for a tax increase are the ones who worked their way up and earned their fortune.

It's the spoiled-rotten Trust Fund Brats like Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers, who have never, ever, had to spend a single day in their pampered lives going hungry, that are the ones screaming & whining like stabbed pigs about paying their fair share.

That Papa John's guy earned his fortune, and he sure is being a big dick over the ACA's supposed tax increases.

He's backed off it claiming it was just an example of what some businesses would do.

To be honest, cutting employee's hours back won't work in the long run. You'll lose the good employees, increase turnover, but on the plus side, you'll probably have to hire an extra body or two to fill the gaps in your service you created when you cut hours for people.

More people working is a good thing, even it if is at a shiatty minimum wage (or less for some food service workers but hey, at least they get tips).


I think the guy who runs Costco gets it right. He pays a higher wage, keeps workers happy and loyal, and this saves him money in the long run. If min. wage goes up, he doesn't sweat it, because he already pays above it, and has factored that into his overhead.
 
2012-12-06 01:51:37 PM  

Gulper Eel: They're the ones who've already found their loopholes of choice.


I'm a 2.5% to 3% (based on income) household and I'll tell you that once you get into Alternative Minimum Tax space, there really aren't a whole lot of loopholes to take advantage of. I don't live on dividends or capital gains, so my income is taxed at regular rates. But I make too much to be eligible for pretty much any of my favorite loopholes.

I can't deduct my or my kid's educational fees. I can't deduct child care. I don't get child tax credits. I'm basically left with my mortgage deduction, sales tax deductions, and business use of my house. I still only paid about 20%, so I'm not complaining too much.

Romney's "close the loophole" plan, which was to basically cap all deductions at about $20K would have been a massive tax increase for me, and would have been for pretty much any family that holds a mortgage or files schedule A. It would also mean an effective tax hike every time the prime rate moved.

That this kind of idea is being floated around both sides of the isle today should worry everyone. They should change the definition of capital gains and tax the people that don't work more than they tax people that do.
 
2012-12-06 01:52:27 PM  

k1j2b3: Please go ahead and write your checks directly to the government to pay down the debt. Then we'll talk.

No one is stopping these wealthy bozos from ponying up more cash. But yet, I never hear about one of them doing so.

Please go talk to the 'wealthy' who make between $200K and $1M a year. I have a feeling you wouldn't be getting the same answer from them.


It's already been explained why that isn't a feasible option, but please have more of this rope.
 
2012-12-06 01:52:53 PM  

SurfaceTension: xanadian: FTFA: Still, some Republicans have broken with their party and indicated their support for accepting President Barack Obama's proposal to extend tax cuts only for the first $250,000 of income. Last week, Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) urged fellow Republicans to agree to the president's tax plan, and since then a number of Republicans have made similar statements, including Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine.), Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), Rep. Kay Granger (R-Texas) and Rep. Robert Dold (R-Ill.).

Funny how when there's news of even a slight bit of sanity in the GOP, either Snowe or Collins is somehow linked to it.

That being said, I wonder how many of the more vocal conservatives on Fark truly understand the basics of how income tax works. I know *I* didn't for the longest time. There's no "hole" between tax brackets. The tax isn't on your total income, it's an increase on taxes OVER a certain dollar amount. I.e., if you were taxed 15% on $20k (just under the top of that bracket), and now you're in the $30k range with 20%, that's 15% on $20k PLUS 20% on the *additional* $10k.

I think I explained that right. My mother used to work for the IRS; but taxes bore the shiat out of me, so I probably wasn't listening very well that day.

When someone wants to have a serious discussion on taxes, federal debt, etc., there are two things I ask him. First is if he understands the basics of marginal taxes (which you explained) and the other is, very simply, who owns most of the U.S. debt (which it turns out Social Security combined with private U.S. citizens and institutions own about 67% of the U.S. debt; China owns about $1T, or around 5% and isn't even the largest foreign stakeholder). If the person gets those questions right, then we can proceed with the discussion.


I thought China had surpassed Japan as the largest. Major Foreign Holders of Treasury Securities
 
2012-12-06 01:53:46 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: CapeFearCadaver: My father loves lambasting the 47%, his household and both of my sisters' households would be counted among those in the 47% of 'moochers'. I am the ONLY person in my family who pays a fair share of individual taxes and am beholden to no personal government assistance.

But I voted for Obama, so I'm just a dirty LIB looking for a handout.

Ever point this out to him?


Of course.

He doesn't talk to me any longer.
 
2012-12-06 01:56:21 PM  

Rent Party: Gulper Eel: They're the ones who've already found their loopholes of choice.

I'm a 2.5% to 3% (based on income) household and I'll tell you that once you get into Alternative Minimum Tax space, there really aren't a whole lot of loopholes to take advantage of. I don't live on dividends or capital gains, so my income is taxed at regular rates. But I make too much to be eligible for pretty much any of my favorite loopholes.

I can't deduct my or my kid's educational fees. I can't deduct child care. I don't get child tax credits. I'm basically left with my mortgage deduction, sales tax deductions, and business use of my house. I still only paid about 20%, so I'm not complaining too much.

Romney's "close the loophole" plan, which was to basically cap all deductions at about $20K would have been a massive tax increase for me, and would have been for pretty much any family that holds a mortgage or files schedule A. It would also mean an effective tax hike every time the prime rate moved.

That this kind of idea is being floated around both sides of the isle today should worry everyone. They should change the definition of capital gains and tax the people that don't work more than they tax people that do.


You were good up until about here. Then it became, "Change it so others get taxed more, not me."
 
2012-12-06 01:56:50 PM  

verbaltoxin:

It's already been explained why that isn't a feasible option, but please have more of this rope.


Read those posts...basically, no, you can't overpay the IRS, but you can write a check directly to the U.S. Treasury. That is what I meant by my comment.

Also, if you meant that it would only be a small dent in the debt...then also a dumb comment b/c that is in essence what you are asking the wealthy to do...pony up more in taxes to make a minuscule dent in the problem.

It is about CUTS, people. Not more taxes.
 
2012-12-06 01:56:57 PM  

Jackpot777: Uchiha_Cycliste: Lol, the ultra rich stand to lose substantially more from the GOPs fiscally-irresponsible temper tantrum than they do from the taxes. That is so awesome, soon only the God botherers will be voting GOP. If the markets tank and the rich lose A LOT of money they won't even vote for the GOP anymore and more importantly they wn't donate money. I love it, the GOP is slowly hurting the people it's "protecting". And then telling them it's in their best interest. No, no... I know better than you, this is for your own good; trust me.

The Ultra-Rich have done better with Republicans out of the way for decades. What they gain in tax breaks from the GOP in control, they more than lose with their investments stagnating / tanking.

[i27.tinypic.com image 850x1100]

I'm surprised more of them haven't figured this out yet. But then again, a lot of them didn't have to work for their money. Just wait for daddy to die, and pass yourself off as a 'Job Creator'...


I'd be interested in how that looks for when each party is in control of Congress. And if, within that, it is significantly higher or lower when the President and the majority of Congress are of different parties.
 
2012-12-06 01:57:18 PM  

Jackpot777: The Ultra-Rich have done better with Republicans out of the way for decades. What they gain in tax breaks from the GOP in control, they more than lose with their investments stagnating / tanking.


THIS!

I have a bit of money in the stock market, it got cut in half the last year of Bush under Obama it has DOUBLED. Same thing under Clinton. Republicans create a bubble and that bubble then crashes.
 
2012-12-06 01:57:33 PM  
I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that if the economy suddenly goes pear-shaped again that the top 2% stand to lose a lot more than the money they'd pay against a few percentage points on the top marginal tax rate.
 
2012-12-06 01:58:11 PM  

k1j2b3: Please go ahead and write your checks directly to the government to pay down the debt. Then we'll talk.

No one is stopping these wealthy bozos from ponying up more cash. But yet, I never hear about one of them doing so.

Please go talk to the 'wealthy' who make between $200K and $1M a year. I have a feeling you wouldn't be getting the same answer from them.


People who make between 200K and 1M aren't part of the 2%.
 
2012-12-06 01:58:21 PM  

k1j2b3: verbaltoxin:

It's already been explained why that isn't a feasible option, but please have more of this rope.

Read those posts...basically, no, you can't overpay the IRS, but you can write a check directly to the U.S. Treasury. That is what I meant by my comment.

Also, if you meant that it would only be a small dent in the debt...then also a dumb comment b/c that is in essence what you are asking the wealthy to do...pony up more in taxes to make a minuscule dent in the problem.

It is about CUTS, people. Not more taxes.


Too late, already had an election on that issue, and it lost. Two wars, one bailout. PAY UP.
 
2012-12-06 01:58:56 PM  
I wonder how many of these 2%ers want to raise rates on regular W2 income, while cutting rates on dividends.
 
2012-12-06 01:59:30 PM  

ManRay: Mark Cuban said he would not mind the tax increase. He can pay it and it would not bother him much. However, he is not for paying more and having it thrown into the same spending black hole everything is currently feeding. He wants to feel like it is doing something. Putting it that way seems more honest to me.


This is exactly were the GOP has failed.
This should have been the message from day one.

But it seems that the trend to "tax today, cut sometime in the future...oops the cuts never happened" got them in the mode of saying "no taxes".

Tax increases, when approved, always happen.
Spending cuts, when approved, seem to rarely happen...and when they do they are "we didn't spend as much as we were planning to overspend" or some accounting trick.

A very simple, we will approve the tax increases on June 1, once you proved that you cut the spending in the first 5 months of the year.

It could even be a 3:1 tax/cut ratio.
 
2012-12-06 02:00:35 PM  

k1j2b3: Please go ahead and write your checks directly to the government to pay down the debt. Then we'll talk.

No one is stopping these wealthy bozos from ponying up more cash. But yet, I never hear about one of them doing so.

Please go talk to the 'wealthy' who make between $200K and $1M a year. I have a feeling you wouldn't be getting the same answer from them.


I am not wealthy, but I do pretty well. I am OK with a 3% increase for everyone in my top marginal rate (28%) and above. Cutting spending alone wont solve this problem.
 
2012-12-06 02:01:10 PM  

verbaltoxin:
That this kind of idea is being floated around both sides of the isle today should worry everyone. They should change the definition of capital gains and tax the people that don't work more than they tax people that do.

You were good up until about here. Then it became, "Change it so others get taxed more, not me."


No, it should be changed to encourage genuine capital investment. I have no problem with dropping the cap gains rate to 0% so long as the dollar getting invested went to actual capital improvements, expansion, and business operations, rather than two assholes just buying and selling stock on the market.

If I buy stock X from some company, that dollar goes to the company and they use it to improve business. Gains on that dollar can be as low as you want. If I buy stock X from you, the company doesn't see it, you do. Any gains made on that dollar should be taxed as regular income, because that is exactly what it is.
 
2012-12-06 02:02:27 PM  

Rent Party: Gulper Eel: They're the ones who've already found their loopholes of choice.

I'm a 2.5% to 3% (based on income) household and I'll tell you that once you get into Alternative Minimum Tax space, there really aren't a whole lot of loopholes to take advantage of. I don't live on dividends or capital gains, so my income is taxed at regular rates. But I make too much to be eligible for pretty much any of my favorite loopholes.

I can't deduct my or my kid's educational fees. I can't deduct child care. I don't get child tax credits. I'm basically left with my mortgage deduction, sales tax deductions, and business use of my house. I still only paid about 20%, so I'm not complaining too much.

Romney's "close the loophole" plan, which was to basically cap all deductions at about $20K would have been a massive tax increase for me, and would have been for pretty much any family that holds a mortgage or files schedule A. It would also mean an effective tax hike every time the prime rate moved.

That this kind of idea is being floated around both sides of the isle today should worry everyone. They should change the definition of capital gains and tax the people that don't work more than they tax people that do.


Don't even need to make that much money to start running into this. My wife and I are in the top 14% by income according to that calculator thing that was going around and my student loan interest deduction already hit a cap because of our income. Mortgage deduction kept us in the High-Teens as an effective rate.... higher than R-Money and his $70k dancing horse write-off or whatever.
 
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