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(Forbes)   Employers more likely to hire potential drinking buddies as opposed to top quality candidates which pretty much explains Fark   (forbes.com) divider line 87
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3775 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2012 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 01:34:48 PM

Warlordtrooper: But I was told that the free market hired the most qualified and it was hard work that got you ahead. Republicans surely wouldn't lie to me


Being personable and getting along with your coworkers is a big part of "being qualified". At least at my company. Then again, our "culture" is our number one priority. This doesnt mean you have to drink, and plenty dont. You can learn to do a good job, but how well you fit is just as important. Maybe it's because everyone is on a "team" and we all work together. Luckily our "culture" is more about wearing flip flops and tshirts, and having lots of outings and events. When you work somewhere that constant interaction is important, getting along is very crucial.
 
2012-12-06 01:38:55 PM
If you're getting the interview, they pretty much consider you qualified (if your resume and references hold). The point of the interview is to determine if you're an insufferable asshat.
 
2012-12-06 01:44:20 PM

Warlordtrooper: But I was told that the free market hired the most qualified and it was hard work that got you ahead. Republicans surely wouldn't lie to me


Bar crawling 5 nights a week IS hard work, you commie pansy

/pull yourself up by your bootlegger straps
 
2012-12-06 01:53:06 PM

Warlordtrooper: But I was told that the free market hired the most qualified and it was hard work that got you ahead. Republicans surely wouldn't lie to me


There are book smarts and there are street smarts. The most formidable people have both. Being the most qualified for the job doesn't necessarily mean being the smartest or having the best resume. It is a combination of personality traits, knowledge and successful track record.

Higher learning / knowledge can get you better interview opportunities. having really sought after skills can make up for being an awkward asshole. It is kind of like the crazy / hot scale for dating women.
 
2012-12-06 01:55:17 PM
Bullshiat. This is a good way to get your arse fired. I've hired a lot of people in and I never gave a thought to whether they would make good friend or would be fun to go out drinking with. An employee is an employee and can never really be a friend. A manager has to keep this distance.
 
2012-12-06 01:55:52 PM

CygnusDarius: SlagginOff: I don't trust people who don't drink (unless it's because they have a problem - in which case they at least have interesting stories from the past), so no, I wouldn't hire someone that I wouldn't want to drink with.

I don't think "my liver looks like swiss cheese" is a cool story :C .

Once I worked with a person that didn't drink, didn't smoke, dressed neatly, rarely spoke, and moved like a frikkin' robot. That guy creeped me out because he didn't made a single noise when he moved.

But, when we talked, I found out he was just a quirky guy.


Ya think? Now the questions are, why is he just a quirky guy, and what can you expect from him in the long run (will he kill you when you manage to offend his sense of order in the universe)?
 
2012-12-06 01:58:48 PM

JackieRabbit: Bullshiat. This is a good way to get your arse fired. I've hired a lot of people in and I never gave a thought to whether they would make good friend or would be fun to go out drinking with. An employee is an employee and can never really be a friend. A manager has to keep this distance.


Im sure you'd much rather babysit a whiny pain in the ass as a manager.
 
2012-12-06 02:04:24 PM
I am extremely hungover.

Should I put that on my résumé?
 
2012-12-06 02:06:37 PM

SlagginOff: I'm half joking anyway, I'm only weary of the teetotalers on moral high ground that don't drink and judge everyone that does. If you just don't like drinking that's fine with me. Most likely though my social life won't have many parallels to yours.


True. Though I know teetotalers that should move to Washington (hint: they puff, puff pass)

/drug of choice?
 
2012-12-06 02:06:59 PM
....never mind. Just that special drunk-hangover.

/still going on the resume.
//don't judge. I like Michigan beers. Apparently a lot.
 
2012-12-06 02:08:34 PM

JackieRabbit: Bullshiat. This is a good way to get your arse fired. I've hired a lot of people in and I never gave a thought to whether they would make good friend or would be fun to go out drinking with. An employee is an employee and can never really be a friend. A manager has to keep this distance.


I agree 100%. Hard to be objective when your drinking buddy or best friend farks up and you have to call him/her on it.
 
2012-12-06 02:09:49 PM

Doom MD: JackieRabbit: Bullshiat. This is a good way to get your arse fired. I've hired a lot of people in and I never gave a thought to whether they would make good friend or would be fun to go out drinking with. An employee is an employee and can never really be a friend. A manager has to keep this distance.

Im sure you'd much rather babysit a whiny pain in the ass as a manager.


No farking way. I only hire people who self-manage. I had one employee like this. He didn't make it through his probation period.
 
2012-12-06 02:15:05 PM

Warlordtrooper: But I was told that the free market hired the most qualified and it was hard work that got you ahead. Republicans surely wouldn't lie to me


Know what I find more annoying than Teetotalers? Dingleberries who use any and all opportunities make a slam against a political party no matter how hard they have to contort the square peg into the round hole.
 
2012-12-06 02:16:11 PM

johnboy2978: Warlordtrooper: But I was told that the free market hired the most qualified and it was hard work that got you ahead. Republicans surely wouldn't lie to me

Know what I find more annoying than Teetotalers? Dingleberries who use any and all opportunities make a slam against a political party no matter how hard they have to contort the square peg into the round hole.


This.
 
2012-12-06 02:17:12 PM

JackieRabbit: Bullshiat. This is a good way to get your arse fired. I've hired a lot of people in and I never gave a thought to whether they would make good friend or would be fun to go out drinking with. An employee is an employee and can never really be a friend. A manager has to keep this distance.


Dwight Shrute?
 
2012-12-06 02:26:40 PM

megarian: I am extremely hungover.

Should I put that on my résumé?


Yes. Also, put down you were Time's Person of the Year for 2006.
 
2012-12-06 02:30:16 PM

PanicMan: megarian: I am extremely hungover.

Should I put that on my résumé?

Yes. Also, put down you were Time's Person of the Year for 2006.


Since that issue came out, I haven't been able to go out in public without people noticing me.

Or maybe it was my mugshot from that day.

Hard to tell.
 
2012-12-06 02:31:42 PM
This is more true of conservatives than liberals, and of engineering, the professions, government and business than liberal-heavy sectors of the economy, but hey, I knew that as an undergraduate.

All the heavy-drinking, heavy partying jocks I went to university with are now: 1) running the country or 2) working as mall cops.

The unexpectly high level of gays and bisexuals in the top echelons of corporations, governments, sports, etc., is due to the drinking and BJs mixing freely, especially among "risk takers", i.e., jocks.

Brains, wimps, nerds and geeks need not apply. Except in IT, of course, where large numbers of pretty boys (and a few geek girls) surround an IT Queen who hires and fires.

Now, here comes the really interesting part: the tendancy to hire "drinking buddies" rather than the smart, hard-working, competent employees you'd expect HR staff and manager-administrators to want is so profound, it explains practically every thing mysterious about human society, politics, etc.

One, conspiracy theories are unnecessary if you know how business as usual works.

Two, the Peter Principle (that people rise to the level of their incompetence) is merely a special case of a more general law.

Three, this law, which you have my permission to call Brantgoose's Law, is that society runs not on competence, intelligence, skill, wit, or wisdom, but on trust, and people basically trust only 1) people like themselves and 2) sociopaths.

Sociopaths are experts in creating trust. They are a sort of genius at it. Thus they rise to the level of their inevitable exposure and destruction rather than mere incompetence, and that level is the top of any human venture in sports, religion, science, politics, etc.

The pointy-haired bosses are all sociopaths, although there is a sufficient over-supply of fugly or stupid sociopaths to fill other levels of hierarchy and social rank and station.

Even the social and political laws that govern the rise of the Drinking Buddy-ocracy (aka the Idiocracy) are merely special cases of a still more general law, namely that bad pennies drive out good.

Called Gresham's Law in economics, this law is a basic paradox, namely the Good is the Enemy of the Best and therefore people will always prefer the sure-fire and familiar second best or even mediocrity to the brilliant erratic ways of genius, sainthood or mere competence even.

The reason that conservatives are more likely to prefer "a guy you'd like to have a beer or twenty with" is that they are born incompetents. They are the dumb people who don't know they are dumb. Liberals and geeks and geniuses tend to be the smart people who know they are dumb or the smart people who know they are smart but who can be spectacularly dumb, and so forth.

Conservatives, unlike liberals, base their friendships, business, etc., on trusting In Group members, while liberals tend to trust to laws, institutions, rules and abstract contracts rather than personality or "character". A liberal may very well judge you on the content of your character but she is less likely to care about who you are or what you are. Liberalism in the economic sense, of course, is all about abstract and formal relationships, usually temporary and expedient rather than based on knowing who your grandfather was, belonging to the same church or race, etc.

These two basic types of personality profiles (we are all mixtures) reflect different ways of thinking.

For example, in linguistics you have grammar-based (or rule-based) versus performance-based.
The type of Grammar Nazi who simply can not tolerate a split-infinitive, a dangling participle, a preposition used to end a sentence with, etc., is more like a conservative, while the person who allows a violation of the rules because it is Shakespearean in its brilliance is more like a liberal.

These great dichotomies and similar structures repeat themselves in human affairs like the great Platonic solids and patterns such as the fractal repeat in Nature.

And that is why mediocrity is the key to success. Number one, the conservatives in power want more of their own, so your incompetence and other flaws will endear you to them, whether you are an alcoholic or simply dyslexic. Conservatives are moralizing bastards but they are not necessarily moral, or ethical, or safe to trust with your sons and daughters. Liberals can be just as bad but they are always bad in a different way, so they too tend to pursue more of the same.

As a result, you will find very few heavy drinkers in the bureaucracy below the level of senior managers or parachuting partisans and politicians.

You will find professors happily drinking bad wine and eating rubbery cheese, while the party of frat boy preppies next door are stoned out of their minds on any number of expensive drugs and mixed drinks.

If you have the knack of spotting these fundamental universal rules, you will realize that the Universe is a piece of jerry-built crap that barely works and that God either does not exist or he is a demented sociopath Himself.

If not, you will need conspiracy theories to explain why things go wrong.

Which is absurd. The only conspiracy the Universe needs is stupidity. Stupidity, raised to a sufficient level, becomes Evil. There is no Devil--humans are quite capable of doing his job without any assistance.

As for God, a few simple rules suffice to create all the chaos and order a Universe needs or can simply survive, so if there ever was a God, Richard Adams is probably right and he refuses to exist because that would be a dead giveaway and make nonsense of free will.
 
2012-12-06 02:34:46 PM

davidab: Ya think? Now the questions are, why is he just a quirky guy, and what can you expect from him in the long run (will he kill you when you manage to offend his sense of order in the universe)?


Despite all that, he was more or less accepting of new ideas, he just didn't embrace them to his life.

We did joke around that he had an extensive knife collection, which he didn't.
 
2012-12-06 02:38:16 PM

brantgoose: This is more true of conservatives than liberals, and of engineering, the professions, government and business than liberal-heavy sectors of the economy, but hey, I knew that as an undergraduate.

All the heavy-drinking, heavy partying jocks I went to university with are now: 1) running the country or 2) working as mall cops.

The unexpectly high level of gays and bisexuals in the top echelons of corporations, governments, sports, etc., is due to the drinking and BJs mixing freely, especially among "risk takers", i.e., jocks.

Brains, wimps, nerds and geeks need not apply. Except in IT, of course, where large numbers of pretty boys (and a few geek girls) surround an IT Queen who hires and fires.

Now, here comes the really interesting part: the tendancy to hire "drinking buddies" rather than the smart, hard-working, competent employees you'd expect HR staff and manager-administrators to want is so profound, it explains practically every thing mysterious about human society, politics, etc.

One, conspiracy theories are unnecessary if you know how business as usual works.

Two, the Peter Principle (that people rise to the level of their incompetence) is merely a special case of a more general law.

Three, this law, which you have my permission to call Brantgoose's Law, is that society runs not on competence, intelligence, skill, wit, or wisdom, but on trust, and people basically trust only 1) people like themselves and 2) sociopaths.

Sociopaths are experts in creating trust. They are a sort of genius at it. Thus they rise to the level of their inevitable exposure and destruction rather than mere incompetence, and that level is the top of any human venture in sports, religion, science, politics, etc.

The pointy-haired bosses are all sociopaths, although there is a sufficient over-supply of fugly or stupid sociopaths to fill other levels of hierarchy and social rank and station.

Even the social and political laws that govern the rise of the Drinking Buddy-ocracy (ak ...


So you're entry level, huh?
 
2012-12-06 02:51:22 PM
When I was younger my ability to drink got me promoted twice in 2 years at one of the big four consulting groups.

These days I hardly drink at all as I like to think I've grown up a bit.
 
2012-12-06 02:57:40 PM

SlagginOff: I don't trust people who don't drink (unless it's because they have a problem - in which case they at least have interesting stories from the past), so no, I wouldn't hire someone that I wouldn't want to drink with.


static2.businessinsider.com
 
2012-12-06 03:01:23 PM

brantgoose: This is more true of conservatives than liberals, and of engineering, the professions, government and business than liberal-heavy sectors of the economy, but hey, I knew that as an undergraduate.

All the heavy-drinking, heavy partying jocks I went to university with are now: 1) running the country or 2) working as mall cops.

The unexpectly high level of gays and bisexuals in the top echelons of corporations, governments, sports, etc., is due to the drinking and BJs mixing freely, especially among "risk takers", i.e., jocks.

Brains, wimps, nerds and geeks need not apply. Except in IT, of course, where large numbers of pretty boys (and a few geek girls) surround an IT Queen who hires and fires.

Now, here comes the really interesting part: the tendancy to hire "drinking buddies" rather than the smart, hard-working, competent employees you'd expect HR staff and manager-administrators to want is so profound, it explains practically every thing mysterious about human society, politics, etc.

One, conspiracy theories are unnecessary if you know how business as usual works.

Two, the Peter Principle (that people rise to the level of their incompetence) is merely a special case of a more general law.

Three, this law, which you have my permission to call Brantgoose's Law, is that society runs not on competence, intelligence, skill, wit, or wisdom, but on trust, and people basically trust only 1) people like themselves and 2) sociopaths.

Sociopaths are experts in creating trust. They are a sort of genius at it. Thus they rise to the level of their inevitable exposure and destruction rather than mere incompetence, and that level is the top of any human venture in sports, religion, science, politics, etc.

The pointy-haired bosses are all sociopaths, although there is a sufficient over-supply of fugly or stupid sociopaths to fill other levels of hierarchy and social rank and station.

Even the social and political laws that govern the rise of the Drinking Buddy-ocracy (aka ...


Write a poem, emo kid.
 
2012-12-06 03:06:05 PM
Wouldn't hire someone who played or ate squash either.
 
2012-12-06 03:12:44 PM

Deep Contact: Wouldn't hire someone who played or ate squash either.


What about Jai alai?
 
2012-12-06 03:16:00 PM

brantgoose: This is more true of conservatives than liberals, and of engineering, the professions, government and business than liberal-heavy sectors of the economy, but hey, I knew that as an undergraduate.

All the heavy-drinking, heavy partying jocks I went to university with are now: 1) running the country or 2) working as mall cops.

The unexpectly high level of gays and bisexuals in the top echelons of corporations, governments, sports, etc., is due to the drinking and BJs mixing freely, especially among "risk takers", i.e., jocks.

Brains, wimps, nerds and geeks need not apply. Except in IT, of course, where large numbers of pretty boys (and a few geek girls) surround an IT Queen who hires and fires.

Now, here comes the really interesting part: the tendancy to hire "drinking buddies" rather than the smart, hard-working, competent employees you'd expect HR staff and manager-administrators to want is so profound, it explains practically every thing mysterious about human society, politics, etc.

One, conspiracy theories are unnecessary if you know how business as usual works.

Two, the Peter Principle (that people rise to the level of their incompetence) is merely a special case of a more general law.

Three, this law, which you have my permission to call Brantgoose's Law, is that society runs not on competence, intelligence, skill, wit, or wisdom, but on trust, and people basically trust only 1) people like themselves and 2) sociopaths.

Sociopaths are experts in creating trust. They are a sort of genius at it. Thus they rise to the level of their inevitable exposure and destruction rather than mere incompetence, and that level is the top of any human venture in sports, religion, science, politics, etc.

The pointy-haired bosses are all sociopaths, although there is a sufficient over-supply of fugly or stupid sociopaths to fill other levels of hierarchy and social rank and station.

Even the social and political laws that govern the rise of the Drinking Buddy-ocracy (ak ...


WFT did I just try to read? You need to lay off the narcotic.
 
2012-12-06 03:33:40 PM

brantgoose: This is more true of conservatives than liberals, and of engineering, the professions, government and business than liberal-heavy sectors of the economy, but hey, I knew that as an undergraduate.

All the heavy-drinking, heavy partying jocks I went to university with are now: 1) running the country or 2) working as mall cops.

The unexpectly high level of gays and bisexuals in the top echelons of corporations, governments, sports, etc., is due to the drinking and BJs mixing freely, especially among "risk takers", i.e., jocks.

Brains, wimps, nerds and geeks need not apply. Except in IT, of course, where large numbers of pretty boys (and a few geek girls) surround an IT Queen who hires and fires.

Now, here comes the really interesting part: the tendancy to hire "drinking buddies" rather than the smart, hard-working, competent employees you'd expect HR staff and manager-administrators to want is so profound, it explains practically every thing mysterious about human society, politics, etc.

One, conspiracy theories are unnecessary if you know how business as usual works.

Two, the Peter Principle (that people rise to the level of their incompetence) is merely a special case of a more general law.

Three, this law, which you have my permission to call Brantgoose's Law, is that society runs not on competence, intelligence, skill, wit, or wisdom, but on trust, and people basically trust only 1) people like themselves and 2) sociopaths.

Sociopaths are experts in creating trust. They are a sort of genius at it. Thus they rise to the level of their inevitable exposure and destruction rather than mere incompetence, and that level is the top of any human venture in sports, religion, science, politics, etc.

The pointy-haired bosses are all sociopaths, although there is a sufficient over-supply of fugly or stupid sociopaths to fill other levels of hierarchy and social rank and station.

Even the social and political laws that govern the rise of the Drinking Buddy-ocracy (ak ...


You either need laid, promoted, or handed a drink or some combination of the three.
 
2012-12-06 03:34:40 PM

Deep Contact: Wouldn't hire someone who played or ate squash either.


I would never play squash, tennis, golf, etc... But, what's wrong with eating squash. It's delicious if you know how to cook it and highly nutritious.
 
2012-12-06 03:56:05 PM
My softball playing ability was a topic during my first "real" job interview.

Writing code, hitting for power, and playing third base. I was the total package.
 
2012-12-06 04:00:09 PM
Most people don't want to admit it, but you could take a reasonably intelligent, motivated kid straight out of college and toss him into just about any role with some mentoring and he'd be decent enough at it in a few years.

Most people move up 'the ladder' slowly. They have to spend months or years at job X before they get a chance to do job Y. It's not that job Y is actually harder, many would argue that jobs get easier as you move up, at least easier in many aspects.

If you hire a good person that is going to fit in and they're lacking in some area, so what? They can learn. This is especially true in specialized fields where few of the candidates are going to have direct relevant experience or in areas involving lots of soft skills. It will be less true in areas like science and engineering.
 
2012-12-06 04:01:19 PM

JackieRabbit: WFT did I just try to read? You need to lay off the narcotic.


Hell, I was going to tell him he needed to relax and have a drink. He is so wound up he snapped and went off the rails into crazytown.
 
2012-12-06 04:01:29 PM
Pump them with alcohol then pump them for information.
 
2012-12-06 04:38:44 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Most people don't want to admit it, but you could take a reasonably intelligent, motivated kid straight out of college and toss him into just about any role with some mentoring and he'd be decent enough at it in a few years.

Most people move up 'the ladder' slowly. They have to spend months or years at job X before they get a chance to do job Y. It's not that job Y is actually harder, many would argue that jobs get easier as you move up, at least easier in many aspects.

If you hire a good person that is going to fit in and they're lacking in some area, so what? They can learn. This is especially true in specialized fields where few of the candidates are going to have direct relevant experience or in areas involving lots of soft skills. It will be less true in areas like science and engineering.


THIS. If I had the bux to start my game company, one of my first hires would be a girl I know. She's one of those people who trys everything and excells at it all. She's an avid musician (in a couple of bands), a very very talented graphical artist, has a degree in astronomy from a top 10 school, and as far as I know, knows nothing of game design.

I can teach her game design. I can't teach insatiable curiousity and creative drive, which she has in abundance.
 
2012-12-06 04:44:14 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I want to be her drinking buddy


I wouldn't mind being her "buddy," but I'd rather it be doing something other than drinking.

But whatever floats your boat, chief.
 
2012-12-06 06:49:58 PM

Rindred: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I want to be her drinking buddy

I wouldn't mind being her "buddy," but I'd rather it be doing something other than drinking.

But whatever floats your boat, chief.


Drinking buddies fark.

Sorry it never works out for you.
 
2012-12-06 07:29:54 PM

SquiggsIN: Deep Contact: Wouldn't hire someone who played or ate squash either.

I would never play squash, tennis, golf, etc... But, what's wrong with eating squash. It's delicious if you know how to cook it and highly nutritious.


The innards have that gross pumpkin smell.
 
2012-12-06 10:39:02 PM
I always suspected something like this was true, but I'm pretty sure the owner of the last company where I worked hired his gambling buddies, rather than his drinking buddies. (He was AA, so he didn't drink.) It always amazed me that all the higher-ups were hard-core republicans, and yet the company was basically one big welfare state. Only about 1/3 of the employees were both competent and motivated enough to actually do their jobs. How they're still in business, I'll never know.
 
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