orbister: ruta: There aren't personality rights for specific cultures, of course, but similar lines of respect ought to exist.That is a very American view of race; as complicated and illogical to outsiders as the British class system. The idea that "culture" can somehow be inherited along with skin colour is just bizarre to the rest of us.
Happy Hours: Iceberg659: Is the crux of your argument that since there was once a fat, uneducated, uniform wearing, white woman on TV so there was(is) no malice in the Mammy stereotype?Are you saying there was malice in depicting any women that way?There was malice? Really?Yeah, it was all a part of a big conspiracy to keep the black man down. That's why the Evans family on Good Times were portrayed as poor too.
shortymac: PsiChick: Why not just do what the pubs do and make the guy blue? Instead of Santa having an alien helper with black skin (because let's face it, there is no living human that looks like someone in blackface, so I'm going to assume anyone in blackface is supposed to be an alien from Mars or something), it's an alien helper with blue skin. Or green. Hell, go crazy with it.You can actually update traditions without destroying them. You just have to be intelligent about it.That's probably the best way to go about it. If they want to stick with the whole "he's black because he's covered in soot" make it actually look like that and get rid of the big red lips and the afro. Use a mix of brown, black and grey for face paint.
Witchydiva: mekki: McManus_brothers: But, but, they're Europeans! And we know they're never racist! So it's cool!The funny thing is, I've heard from many Europeans that they are offended by this. Not in the usual way you would think so. That is, Black Pete being a racist caricature. But that the ones who are complaining about Black Pete the most are Americans. And how dare Americans be fascist bullies and think what they find offensive should be standard to what everyone finds offensive. That in their non-American culture, they doesn't have a history of blackface or at least blackface that is found offensive by the public, so therefore they should be able to do it and NO ONE should complain.Very much this.If you get offended by Zwarte Piet, it is because of your own country's racist history and your thin skin. People literally get violent over it! It has nothing to do with the fact that nationally celebrating a holiday by dressing up and acting as a racial stereotype is offensive.And anyone who thinks the Dutch don't have a history of racism even longer and more brutal than America is ignorant or fooling themselves.
Rincewind53: T.M.S.: I also don't know anyone offended by that word. But I do hang out with unusual characters.Fair. Showbiz characters tend to be more permissive. But I guarantee if you drop some of your black acquaintances in the South and some redneck comes up and calls him the n word and tells him to get the hell out, he'd be offended.
DROxINxTHExWIND: No malice behind portraying black women as fat, uneducated, house-dress wearing, simpletons?
easypray: You guys are viewing this through the lense of American culture and history. Stop and think about why you think black face is offensive and racist to begin with ...because is America it was used ot caricature people who were being enslaved and subjugated.So from that point of view it's racistBut...and this might surprise my America friends ...the rest of the world has different history than you. During the 13th century much of Europe was ruled by Moors, they were not slaves, they were the ruling class. This would change how a caricature is viewed. As a society they have different norms and taboos that Americans have...even about the same topics
sodomizer: We're different for a reason.The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.
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