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(Reuters)   Is it racist that Santa Claus has a black servant? Is it racist to portray him in black face? Is it, okay, yes, just, yes it's racist, okay? It's racist   (reuters.com) divider line 24
    More: Obvious, crowd watching, St. Nicholas, freedom of expression, toy stores, racists, Suriname  
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7190 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2012 at 8:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-06 01:58:03 PM
3 votes:
satwcomic.com

( http://satwcomic.com/black-pete )
2012-12-06 08:57:23 AM
3 votes:
Santa's helpers are elves, ergo Black Pete is a drow.
2012-12-06 05:41:03 AM
3 votes:
2012-12-06 11:32:02 AM
2 votes:

Let's
all be
victims!

\o/
|
/ \
2012-12-06 10:05:20 AM
2 votes:
moonwolves.files.wordpress.com
"What's going on in this....oh hell naw."
2012-12-06 09:08:53 AM
2 votes:
"Six to Eight Black Men"

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

--
BMO
2012-12-06 09:06:22 AM
2 votes:
Saint Nicholas was just ahead of his time. At a time when Africans were discriminated against in Europe, he hired a Moorish man as his executive assistant. He should be lauded as a pioneer in fighting racism.
2012-12-06 07:00:47 PM
1 votes:

orbister: ruta: There aren't personality rights for specific cultures, of course, but similar lines of respect ought to exist.

That is a very American view of race; as complicated and illogical to outsiders as the British class system. The idea that "culture" can somehow be inherited along with skin colour is just bizarre to the rest of us.


I used the word "culture" because it's more meaningful than "race", which is a cultural construct. I could have used the word "ethnicity" I guess. What magical, non-discriminating-on-the-basis-of-anything-but-skin-colour would "the rest of us" live in? Certainly not any place with tribal or religious differences. Every society has its power structure for divvying folks up, even wherever you're from, I'll safely wager. [Looks at profile]. Farking Scotland?! Ha!

/not American.
2012-12-06 05:56:36 PM
1 votes:

Happy Hours: Iceberg659: Is the crux of your argument that since there was once a fat, uneducated, uniform wearing, white woman on TV so there was(is) no malice in the Mammy stereotype?

Are you saying there was malice in depicting any women that way?

There was malice? Really?

Yeah, it was all a part of a big conspiracy to keep the black man down. That's why the Evans family on Good Times were portrayed as poor too.


Jesus. Conspiracy to keep the black man down?! Have fun with that straw man. There is no conspiracy. It's lazy writing and ignorance.

There is no malice in depicting someone as an overweight, uneducated "servant." Overweight, uneducated servants exist. The malice came in when a certain group of people was ONLY depicted as fat, uneducated servants. If you're a member of a particular group and the prevailing media representation of that group is a negative stereotype you're likely to take umbrage.
2012-12-06 03:25:15 PM
1 votes:

shortymac: PsiChick: Why not just do what the pubs do and make the guy blue? Instead of Santa having an alien helper with black skin (because let's face it, there is no living human that looks like someone in blackface, so I'm going to assume anyone in blackface is supposed to be an alien from Mars or something), it's an alien helper with blue skin. Or green. Hell, go crazy with it.

You can actually update traditions without destroying them. You just have to be intelligent about it.

That's probably the best way to go about it. If they want to stick with the whole "he's black because he's covered in soot" make it actually look like that and get rid of the big red lips and the afro. Use a mix of brown, black and grey for face paint.


That would still raise the question of 'why the hell is Santa toting around a guy who can't figure out what a bathtub is', though. :p
2012-12-06 12:23:29 PM
1 votes:

Witchydiva: mekki: McManus_brothers: But, but, they're Europeans! And we know they're never racist! So it's cool!

The funny thing is, I've heard from many Europeans that they are offended by this. Not in the usual way you would think so. That is, Black Pete being a racist caricature. But that the ones who are complaining about Black Pete the most are Americans. And how dare Americans be fascist bullies and think what they find offensive should be standard to what everyone finds offensive. That in their non-American culture, they doesn't have a history of blackface or at least blackface that is found offensive by the public, so therefore they should be able to do it and NO ONE should complain.

Very much this.

If you get offended by Zwarte Piet, it is because of your own country's racist history and your thin skin. People literally get violent over it! It has nothing to do with the fact that nationally celebrating a holiday by dressing up and acting as a racial stereotype is offensive.

And anyone who thinks the Dutch don't have a history of racism even longer and more brutal than America is ignorant or fooling themselves.


lichnosti.net
Those Muthafarkers!
2012-12-06 12:04:31 PM
1 votes:

Rincewind53: T.M.S.: I also don't know anyone offended by that word. But I do hang out with unusual characters.

Fair. Showbiz characters tend to be more permissive. But I guarantee if you drop some of your black acquaintances in the South and some redneck comes up and calls him the n word and tells him to get the hell out, he'd be offended.


Bigot.
2012-12-06 11:41:24 AM
1 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: No malice behind portraying black women as fat, uneducated, house-dress wearing, simpletons?


Do you also think that Hamlet portrays all white men as vacillating, tight-wearing, introspective vigilantes?
2012-12-06 10:35:53 AM
1 votes:
also:
www.explosm.net

/oblig
2012-12-06 10:01:03 AM
1 votes:
Does Zwarte Piet hand out watermelon and fried chicken to the children?
2012-12-06 09:56:40 AM
1 votes:

easypray: You guys are viewing this through the lense of American culture and history. Stop and think about why you think black face is offensive and racist to begin with ...because is America it was used ot caricature people who were being enslaved and subjugated.

So from that point of view it's racist

But...and this might surprise my America friends ...the rest of the world has different history than you. During the 13th century much of Europe was ruled by Moors, they were not slaves, they were the ruling class. This would change how a caricature is viewed. As a society they have different norms and taboos that Americans have...even about the same topics


Nonsense. Everywhere in the world is America, and people who don't have free speech and the jesus and a longstanding tradition of white guilt and PC paranoia ain't right.
2012-12-06 09:55:19 AM
1 votes:
The elimination of this type of depiction of fictional characters will be a great step forward for human rights.
2012-12-06 09:49:44 AM
1 votes:
You guys are viewing this through the lense of American culture and history. Stop and think about why you think black face is offensive and racist to begin with ...because is America it was used ot caricature people who were being enslaved and subjugated.

So from that point of view it's racist

But...and this might surprise my America friends ...the rest of the world has different history than you. During the 13th century much of Europe was ruled by Moors, they were not slaves, they were the ruling class. This would change how a caricature is viewed. As a society they have different norms and taboos that Americans have...even about the same topics
2012-12-06 09:41:20 AM
1 votes:
www.antoinetteberns.nl

www.krabbendam-kadoverpakking.nl

static.wix.com

offtrackplanet.com 

thumbs.dreamstime.com
2012-12-06 09:26:42 AM
1 votes:

sodomizer: We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.


You've convinced me. RAAAAACCEEE WAAAAAARRRR!
2012-12-06 09:23:08 AM
1 votes:
Yes. Yes, this is racist.

I don't care how much happy memories you attach to it - just because a tradition is old and makes kids happy does NOT mean it isn't racist as all get-out. I do _not_ understand this place, or how they've sold the rest of the world the image that they are tolerant and welcoming. The fact that tolerance is not the same as acceptance is a lesson that I've learned quite well here (it is stunning to realize how differently my white friends here view the Dutch vs my asian and black friends - regardless of their nationality). I bet it has to be fun to be a fly on the wall at some of the embassies here around this time of year, when the fresh expats figure out that this is real, happening, and everywhere.

The images are EVERYWHERE. 80% of shop windows either have photos or dolls - even wrapped around oranges (which I discovered after I brought home a box of Mandarins), and parachuting into the snack area at the movie theater. I particularly love the burlap sacks they sell here, with the picture of a black person with big, fat, red lips (http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3034/3043735415_a594373cfd_z.jpg).

Want a mindfark? How about a black child in blackface (http://kaganof.com/kagablog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/0101.jpg)?

Better: a black friend of mine in Amsterdam sent her daughter to school in whiteface on this day when she was a kid, so she could be Sinterklaas instead of the clumsy, bumbling, stupid helper who hands out candy. 

Regarding the "but... it is TRADITION" bullsh*t" - so was slavery, so were women as chattel, so was Prima Nocta/ droit du seigneur, and a whole lot of other things that modern society finally saw as inappropriate relics from a bygone era.
2012-12-06 09:11:20 AM
1 votes:
On December 24th, in many homes across America, moms and dads will read 'Twas the Night Before Christmas to their kids at bedtime.

Whilst i will once again regale my progeny with David Sedaris's Six To Eight Black Men .
2012-12-06 09:05:12 AM
1 votes:
Hell, I'd go one step farther. Imagine a guy on the streets today wearing a red velvet coat with fur trim, and a jaunty hat.

Did I just describe Santa? Or a pimp?
2012-12-06 08:58:51 AM
1 votes:
Ted Danson would never do this.
 
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