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(Reuters)   Is it racist that Santa Claus has a black servant? Is it racist to portray him in black face? Is it, okay, yes, just, yes it's racist, okay? It's racist   (reuters.com) divider line 223
    More: Obvious, crowd watching, St. Nicholas, freedom of expression, toy stores, racists, Suriname  
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7186 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2012 at 8:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 05:41:03 AM
 
2012-12-06 08:57:23 AM
Santa's helpers are elves, ergo Black Pete is a drow.
 
2012-12-06 08:57:25 AM
"But it's tradition!"

I'm sensing a huge business opportunity in exporting "Heritage, not Hate" swag over there.
 
2012-12-06 08:58:51 AM
Ted Danson would never do this.
 
2012-12-06 08:59:25 AM
Yes. Black Peter is an incredibly racist tradition. Sorry Dutch people, but you're perpetuating a racist tradition. Get rid of it.
 
2012-12-06 09:00:38 AM
Why do we insist on holding ancient practices to modern day standards?
 
2012-12-06 09:01:42 AM
Why is the costume racist again? Its "typical 17th century Moorish dress" which is presumably one of the ways a schwartzer would be found when this tradition originated. Its not like they're dressing him up like a slave or a jockey or a rap battler or some other hateful, offensive caricature, its just normal clothes from a long time ago. And why doesn't that make Santa Claus racist? See a hell of a lot of white dudes running around in red velvet robes, do we? hmmmmm?
 
2012-12-06 09:02:04 AM

Friskya: Why do we insist on holding ancient practices to modern day standards?


1. It's not ancient, it's less than 200 years old
2. Because we are not ancient, and we, the modern people are the ones making the decisions to continue to do these things.
 
2012-12-06 09:04:43 AM
But, but, they're Europeans! And we know they're never racist! So it's cool!
 
2012-12-06 09:04:45 AM

Friskya: Why do we insist on holding ancient practices to modern day standards?


Because there was no Black Jesus, that's why!
 
2012-12-06 09:05:12 AM
Hell, I'd go one step farther. Imagine a guy on the streets today wearing a red velvet coat with fur trim, and a jaunty hat.

Did I just describe Santa? Or a pimp?
 
2012-12-06 09:05:42 AM
They can't find any actual black people to play dress up with?
 
2012-12-06 09:06:22 AM
Saint Nicholas was just ahead of his time. At a time when Africans were discriminated against in Europe, he hired a Moorish man as his executive assistant. He should be lauded as a pioneer in fighting racism.
 
2012-12-06 09:07:19 AM

Friskya: Why do we insist on holding ancient practices to modern day standards?


Why do we insist on holding ancient practices IN modern day? Im not saying we should just forget it happened, but maybe as a society we should agree that many of the traditions we hold we are holding simply because theyre tradition and they should be done away with or updated for the times.
 
2012-12-06 09:07:25 AM
What about just hiring black actors to play the part? I bet you could do it like Macy's Santa only one of them, at the end of the parade. So when the sinterklaas ferry arrives, the last man off is Piet (played by an actual black man) who pulls out his iPhone and with a wink and a nod runs off to the nearest toy store. So Piet, still santa's Assitant, can be "busy" and therefore unseen for the rest of the holiday season
 
2012-12-06 09:07:31 AM

Hector Remarkable: Ted Danson would never do this.


hmm? what? oh dammit to hell!

www.paunchstevenson.com

/oblig
 
2012-12-06 09:07:39 AM

Gonz: Hell, I'd go one step farther. Imagine a guy on the streets today wearing a red velvet coat with fur trim, and a jaunty hat.

Did I just describe Santa? Or a pimp?


Does he have a beard? Pimps are generally well groomed.
 
2012-12-06 09:08:53 AM
"Six to Eight Black Men"

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

--
BMO
 
2012-12-06 09:10:56 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Gonz: Hell, I'd go one step farther. Imagine a guy on the streets today wearing a red velvet coat with fur trim, and a jaunty hat.

Did I just describe Santa? Or a pimp?

Does he have a beard? Pimps are generally well groomed.


www.nypost.com
 
2012-12-06 09:10:57 AM
This seems like a repeat from about a year ago.
 
2012-12-06 09:11:20 AM
On December 24th, in many homes across America, moms and dads will read 'Twas the Night Before Christmas to their kids at bedtime.

Whilst i will once again regale my progeny with David Sedaris's Six To Eight Black Men .
 
2012-12-06 09:11:27 AM
And let's not forget about elf discrimination. That bastard Santa pays substandard wages in a sweat-shop environment - do you know how many elves kill themselves every year because of an eternal contract Santa signed with Apple? They can't marry, even though the North Pole Constitution is perfectly amendable and well over 60 percent of all Santa's elves are known to be gay. (As well as a number of the reindeer, who, by the way are harvested when they're old and sold for roadside burgers in Kentucky. It's true.)
Santa's a bastard and he always has been, from slavery to corruption to outright murder. If you want to win the war on Christmas, it's this farker we need to kill. Die, Santa, die.
 
2012-12-06 09:12:17 AM
And why is Santa always dressed as a Republican?
 
2012-12-06 09:12:17 AM

Friskya: Why do we insist on holding ancient practices to modern day standards?


This argument could also apply to human trafficking.
 
2012-12-06 09:12:29 AM

I am Jack's user id: On December 24th, in many homes across America, moms and dads will read 'Twas the Night Before Christmas to their kids at bedtime.

Whilst i will once again regale my progeny with David Sedaris's Six To Eight Black Men .


you racist... ;-)
 
2012-12-06 09:12:42 AM
To be fair to the Dutch, the historic Saint Nicholas really did have a lot of Moorish converts. Does it really count as racism if there is no malice behind it?
 
2012-12-06 09:13:15 AM
It's still OK to portray Krampus, though.

/Relieved to have awakened in bed this morning and not in Krampus' sack.
//Must not have been that naughty this year.
 
2012-12-06 09:14:27 AM

Brass_Robo: To be fair to the Dutch, the historic Saint Nicholas really did have a lot of Moorish converts. Does it really count as racism if there is no malice behind it?


This is Fark.. home of the smallest intellects being ITGs.. so yes.. yes it does count.

/Luv ya Farkers :)
 
2012-12-06 09:14:29 AM
(shakes tiny fist at bubo_sibiricus)
 
mhd
2012-12-06 09:15:23 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: It's still OK to portray Krampus, though.


Who could possibly object?

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-06 09:16:55 AM

Gonz: Hell, I'd go one step farther. Imagine a guy on the streets today wearing a red velvet coat with fur trim, and a jaunty hat.

Did I just describe Santa? Or a pimp?


A white woman.
 
2012-12-06 09:17:41 AM

McManus_brothers: But, but, they're Europeans! And we know they're never racist! So it's cool!


The funny thing is, I've heard from many Europeans that they are offended by this. Not in the usual way you would think so. That is, Black Pete being a racist caricature. But that the ones who are complaining about Black Pete the most are Americans. And how dare Americans be fascist bullies and think what they find offensive should be standard to what everyone finds offensive. That in their non-American culture, they doesn't have a history of blackface or at least blackface that is found offensive by the public, so therefore they should be able to do it and NO ONE should complain.
 
2012-12-06 09:18:51 AM
FTFA: Entitled "St Nicholas and his servant," it showed a short, dark-faced man dressed in a Moorish costume a few steps behind an imposing white man with a white beard and bishop's outfit.

"There's a theory that says that important people had a black servant, it was a status symbol. Sinterklaas was an important man, so he needed one too,"



I see there are a lot of folks who didn't read the article. I think this is why people are offended. it has nothing to do with the Pete's clothing, it had to do with why he exists as a character.
 
2012-12-06 09:20:59 AM

mekki: McManus_brothers: But, but, they're Europeans! And we know they're never racist! So it's cool!

The funny thing is, I've heard from many Europeans that they are offended by this. Not in the usual way you would think so. That is, Black Pete being a racist caricature. But that the ones who are complaining about Black Pete the most are Americans. And how dare Americans be fascist bullies and think what they find offensive should be standard to what everyone finds offensive. That in their non-American culture, they doesn't have a history of blackface or at least blackface that is found offensive by the public, so therefore they should be able to do it and NO ONE should complain.


That sounds like something you just made up.


/ijs
 
2012-12-06 09:22:38 AM

Brass_Robo: To be fair to the Dutch, the historic Saint Nicholas really did have a lot of Moorish converts. Does it really count as racism if there is no malice behind it?


Yes, it is. Just like the Mammy character is racist even though there is traditionally no malice behind it.
 
2012-12-06 09:23:08 AM
Yes. Yes, this is racist.

I don't care how much happy memories you attach to it - just because a tradition is old and makes kids happy does NOT mean it isn't racist as all get-out. I do _not_ understand this place, or how they've sold the rest of the world the image that they are tolerant and welcoming. The fact that tolerance is not the same as acceptance is a lesson that I've learned quite well here (it is stunning to realize how differently my white friends here view the Dutch vs my asian and black friends - regardless of their nationality). I bet it has to be fun to be a fly on the wall at some of the embassies here around this time of year, when the fresh expats figure out that this is real, happening, and everywhere.

The images are EVERYWHERE. 80% of shop windows either have photos or dolls - even wrapped around oranges (which I discovered after I brought home a box of Mandarins), and parachuting into the snack area at the movie theater. I particularly love the burlap sacks they sell here, with the picture of a black person with big, fat, red lips (http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3034/3043735415_a594373cfd_z.jpg).

Want a mindfark? How about a black child in blackface (http://kaganof.com/kagablog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/0101.jpg)?

Better: a black friend of mine in Amsterdam sent her daughter to school in whiteface on this day when she was a kid, so she could be Sinterklaas instead of the clumsy, bumbling, stupid helper who hands out candy. 

Regarding the "but... it is TRADITION" bullsh*t" - so was slavery, so were women as chattel, so was Prima Nocta/ droit du seigneur, and a whole lot of other things that modern society finally saw as inappropriate relics from a bygone era.
 
2012-12-06 09:24:12 AM
Everything is racist, which means nothing is.

Seriously: at no time in history has any group gotten along with others. We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.

Let's just grow up, accept that, and move on.
 
2012-12-06 09:26:37 AM

mekki: McManus_brothers: But, but, they're Europeans! And we know they're never racist! So it's cool!

The funny thing is, I've heard from many Europeans that they are offended by this. Not in the usual way you would think so. That is, Black Pete being a racist caricature. But that the ones who are complaining about Black Pete the most are Americans. And how dare Americans be fascist bullies and think what they find offensive should be standard to what everyone finds offensive. That in their non-American culture, they doesn't have a history of blackface or at least blackface that is found offensive by the public, so therefore they should be able to do it and NO ONE should complain.


Very much this.

If you get offended by Zwarte Piet, it is because of your own country's racist history and your thin skin. People literally get violent over it! It has nothing to do with the fact that nationally celebrating a holiday by dressing up and acting as a racial stereotype is offensive.

And anyone who thinks the Dutch don't have a history of racism even longer and more brutal than America is ignorant or fooling themselves.
 
2012-12-06 09:26:42 AM

sodomizer: We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.


You've convinced me. RAAAAACCEEE WAAAAAARRRR!
 
2012-12-06 09:27:04 AM

sodomizer: Everything is racist, which means nothing is.

Seriously: at no time in history has any group gotten along with others. We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.

Let's just grow up, accept that, and move on.


I'd give you a slow clap, but your pointless rant about those dirty librulz was so off topic that you just get snark instead.
 
2012-12-06 09:27:26 AM

eldezod: sodomizer: We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.

You've convinced me. RAAAAACCEEE WAAAAAARRRR!


FREEEEEE BIIIIIIIIRD!
 
2012-12-06 09:27:35 AM

mekki: Brass_Robo: To be fair to the Dutch, the historic Saint Nicholas really did have a lot of Moorish converts. Does it really count as racism if there is no malice behind it?

Yes, it is. Just like the Mammy character is racist even though there is traditionally no malice behind it.


No malice behind portraying black women as fat, uneducated, house-dress wearing, simpletons? Thats news.
 
2012-12-06 09:28:55 AM

sodomizer: Everything is racist, which means nothing is.

Seriously: at no time in history has any group gotten along with others. We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.

Let's just grow up, accept that, and move on.


Again, just because you're a racist and can't get along with others doesn't mean that's true for everyone.
 
2012-12-06 09:29:05 AM

HailRobonia: Santa's helpers are elves, ergo Black Pete is a drow.


Which I would buy having played D&D, but...

"Celebrations were depicted on paintings of 17th century Dutch artists Jan Steen and Richard Brakenburg, but Zwarte Piet only made his first appearance in a mid-19th century illustrated book by Dutch teacher Jan Schenkman."

Zwarte Piet is a bit of residual colonialism, and should probably at least be de-emphasized on that basis.
 
2012-12-06 09:29:10 AM
The tradition of St Nicholas exists in other European countries, including Austria and Germany. But he is only accompanied by black helpers in the Netherlands and Belgium.


Switzerland too, according to a buddy of mine.
 
2012-12-06 09:30:04 AM

natazha: And why is Santa always dressed as a Republican?


Santa Claus has a red suit
He's a Communist
And and a beard and long hair
Must be a Pacificst
What's in the pipe that he's smoking?
- Arlo Guthrie
 
2012-12-06 09:35:33 AM

Witchydiva: eldezod: sodomizer: We're different for a reason.

The great multicultural dream, like ending poverty and other liberal wet dreams, is an illusion and it doesn't work.

You've convinced me. RAAAAACCEEE WAAAAAARRRR!

FREEEEEE BIIIIIIIIRD!


AAASSS YOOUUUU WIIIIIIISSHHHH
 
2012-12-06 09:40:04 AM

bubo_sibiricus: "Six to Eight Black Men"

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

--
BMO



Thanks. As a Brit I'd never heard him before. Will be seeking out more Sedaris
 
2012-12-06 09:41:03 AM
Yes, this is a racist tradition that should be retired.
And besides that, blacks are too lazy to take on that job and they'll probably have to shift to Latinos anyway

\troll, troll, troll your thread....
 
2012-12-06 09:41:20 AM
www.antoinetteberns.nl

www.krabbendam-kadoverpakking.nl

static.wix.com

offtrackplanet.com 

thumbs.dreamstime.com
 
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