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(NBC News)   Obama sees signs Republicans may agree to tax hikes for the wealthy. In other news, the Air Force shot down Arnold Ziffel today for violating the White House no-fly zone   (nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com) divider line 46
    More: Unlikely, President Obama, White House, Republican, House majority leaders, Business Roundtable, entitlement reform, Errol Louis  
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831 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Dec 2012 at 10:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 09:31:49 AM
Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.
 
2012-12-06 10:08:16 AM
I think there's a recognition that maybe they can accept some rate increases as long as it's combined with serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts. And if we can get the leadership on the Republican side to take that framework, to acknowledge that reality

Good Luck.
 
2012-12-06 10:08:43 AM

incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.


Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.
 
2012-12-06 10:11:38 AM

Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.


Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?
 
2012-12-06 10:12:34 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.

Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?


As Jon said, "At least for a moment we'll feel like we're flying."
 
2012-12-06 10:13:25 AM
And there shall in that time be rumours of things going astray, and there will be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base, that has an attachment...at this time, a friend shall lose his friends's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before around eight o'clock...
 
2012-12-06 10:15:00 AM
I'd like to thank the SCOTUS for their Citizens United decision which has flooded political coffers with so much money that threat of being primaried by Grover and his group of Derpers for Prosperity has been greatly diluted.

/long awkward sentence is long and awkward.
 
2012-12-06 10:15:50 AM
Has he reverted to his childhood days of divination via reading chicken entrails?

(insert Tea Party witch doctor poster here)
 
2012-12-06 10:17:10 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?


No. I don't think it'll happen. Boner blinked the other day when he purged his committee of Teabaggers. Boner is still trying to get the best deal for his constituency as possible so any deal will be at the last minute.
 
2012-12-06 10:17:14 AM
Artie Ziff?
 
2012-12-06 10:18:13 AM
t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-06 10:19:40 AM
Please. We all know how this is going to play out. Obama's getting his tax increase with another time-bomb expiration date (but after he's out of office) and it's not going to happen until December 27, with him signing the "last minute" legislation on the Friday evening going into new years.

Republican's can dust off the "largest tax increase in history" lie again, talk radio callers will call in to say they're firing their pretend employees, and the economy will magically start to improve but it will never, ever, be credited to the tax increases.
 
2012-12-06 10:26:42 AM

urbangirl: Debeo Summa Credo: Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.

Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?

As Jon said, "At least for a moment we'll feel like we're flying."


The whole left/right divide on the fiscal cliff is so weird. The fiscal cliff is the institution of austerity measures. Not so long ago liberals were pointing out that austerity measures were bad for the economy and a terrible idea. Conservatives thought they were a great idea so we don't become another Greece. Now that those measures are happening there are a bunch of conservatives scared out of their minds that it will happen and a bunch of liberals saying "go ahead!"
 
2012-12-06 10:27:42 AM

Great_Milenko: Please. We all know how this is going to play out. Obama's getting his tax increase with another time-bomb expiration date (but after he's out of office) and it's not going to happen until December 27, with him signing the "last minute" legislation on the Friday evening going into new years.

Republican's can dust off the "largest tax increase in history" lie again, talk radio callers will call in to say they're firing their pretend employees, and the economy will magically start to improve but it will never, ever, be credited to the tax increases.


What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.
 
2012-12-06 10:27:50 AM
One way or the other, rates are going up on the wealthiest Americans...

The GOP can have some say in how they are raised or be forced into a position where they'll have to vote against a new bill proposing middle class tax cuts to get those rates back for the wealthy.

Polls show most Americans will blame the GOP, so Obama doesn't really have to do anything, and he'll get most of what he wants and the GOP will look like the obstructionist petulant children they've been since 2009.
 
2012-12-06 10:33:51 AM
Ok seriously...Tom Coburn just said he would agree to hiking taxes on the richest...

I repeat...Tom Coburn.

You guys dont see the sign there?
 
2012-12-06 10:35:00 AM

keylock71: One way or the other, rates are going up on will no longer be lower for the wealthiest Americans...


FTFY

This is not a "rate hike", it's the expiration of tax cuts. To all the people who ask "why should they have to pay more just because they're successful", I reply "why should they get to pay less"?
 
2012-12-06 10:35:33 AM
FTFA: But the report also suggested that Republicans might then use an impending need to authorize more borrowing authority, a point at which the GOP might have more leverage, to extract the kinds of spending cuts and tax and entitlement reforms for which Republican leaders have pushed during this fall's fiscal cliff talks.

I wonder if the House Republicans taking the debt ceiling hostage again, if there is a way President Obama can have the treasury shift the money around to where the stuff not paid for/defaulted on are the stuff the Republicans support while paying for the important stuff? Let the home districts of those doing the "hostage taking" be the ones who suffer. Heck, they elected them so they should be the ones dealing with the consequences.
 
2012-12-06 10:40:23 AM

Richelieu: keylock71: One way or the other, rates are going up on will no longer be lower for the wealthiest Americans...

FTFY

This is not a "rate hike", it's the expiration of tax cuts. To all the people who ask "why should they have to pay more just because they're successful", I reply "why should they get to pay less"?


Touché... I agree.

It's fascinating how language and words are manipulated in these types of discussions.
 
2012-12-06 10:41:16 AM
Speaking for myself and the rest of the TRUE Americans, we're sick and tired of views from the Hollywood elitist...

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net

Sick AND Tired, I tells ya'.
 
2012-12-06 10:45:31 AM
Republicans don't raise taxes. Instead they cut spending at a federal or state level for services that are mandatory at local levels, thus forcing the local municipalities to raise property taxes. This is a worse way to tax because the tax assessed value of the property gets so hyper inflated that it further stagnates the housing markets. If they need more revenue they won't raise taxes because they think people are stupid enough to believe a fee is not a tax.
 
2012-12-06 10:57:30 AM

odinsposse: The whole left/right divide on the fiscal cliff is so weird. The fiscal cliff is the institution of austerity measures. Not so long ago liberals were pointing out that austerity measures were bad for the economy and a terrible idea. Conservatives thought they were a great idea so we don't become another Greece. Now that those measures are happening there are a bunch of conservatives scared out of their minds that it will happen and a bunch of liberals saying "go ahead!"


It's a bit more complicated than that. Liberals are, by and large, OK with the cliff because they know that they'll still have majority control of the senate and presidency in January. Basically, if we hit the cliff, tax rates will go up (like liberals want), and although entitlements will also get cut, that can be undone quickly. Meanwhile, the GOP won't be able to get their tax cuts for the wealthy back because they'd never get through the senate, nor would Obama sign them. The cliff automatically gives liberals the tax increases they want, and does so in a way that will last for a good while.

Here's what I expect will happen: the GOP won't deal on the deficit, causing tax rates to go up automatically. That way, Republicans can pretend that they fought the tax increases (nevermind that Obama is offering them a smaller hike than what will happen on Jan. 1), so they can't be blamed for breaking their idiotic pledge. After that, the two parties can squabble about defense and entitlement cuts, but I would guess that a deal will get done before the end of January in that case. The pressure will just be too high.
 
2012-12-06 10:58:10 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.


Obama will give the Republicans the advice to go get their shine box, and Boehner will give a weeping press conference where he cries about how the big bad black man forced him to make the richest 2% pay their fair share...
 
2012-12-06 11:01:57 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.



Do the opposite of what Republicans want, they are economic terrorists. And there is no negotiating with terrorists.
 
2012-12-06 11:04:22 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.

Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?


Without a doubt.
As the blamer in chief he knows never to let a crisis go to waste and that it is not at all a cliff.
He has plenty to time to play the victim, blame the GOP and get something done in February.

Besides, taxes are going up for everyone in January with the payroll tax break expiring and this is a perfect way to blame the GOP on that (even though the dems don't want to extend it either).
 
2012-12-06 11:08:35 AM

NateGrey: Debeo Summa Credo: What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.


Do the opposite of what Republicans want, they are economic terrorists. And there is no negotiating with terrorists.


Huh? So let rates rise for everyone, since the GOP wants to extend cuts for everyone, and they're terrorists? Fine with me.

Anybody have a serious f'in answer?
 
2012-12-06 11:08:49 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Debeo Summa Credo: Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.

Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?

Without a doubt.
As the blamer in chief he knows never to let a crisis go to waste and that it is not at all a cliff.
He has plenty to time to play the victim, blame the GOP and get something done in February.

Besides, taxes are going up for everyone in January with the payroll tax break expiring and this is a perfect way to blame the GOP on that (even though the dems don't want to extend it either).


And as we all know, the GOP is always the victim.
 
2012-12-06 11:11:09 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Great_Milenko: Please. We all know how this is going to play out. Obama's getting his tax increase with another time-bomb expiration date (but after he's out of office) and it's not going to happen until December 27, with him signing the "last minute" legislation on the Friday evening going into new years.

Republican's can dust off the "largest tax increase in history" lie again, talk radio callers will call in to say they're firing their pretend employees, and the economy will magically start to improve but it will never, ever, be credited to the tax increases.

What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.


1. Higher tax rates at a higher income level that 0bama wants - IIRC Pelosi proposed something like $1M a while ago.
This allows 0bama to get the class warfare win.
2. Some limit on deductions for higher income.
3. A plan for a plan on limited spending cuts which will be more likely "we will overspend less than we planned, so that is the same as a cut".
 
2012-12-06 11:11:13 AM

NateGrey: And as we all know, the GOP is always the victim.


Ayup.
 
2012-12-06 11:15:14 AM

NateGrey: tenpoundsofcheese: Debeo Summa Credo: Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.

Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?

Without a doubt.
As the blamer in chief he knows never to let a crisis go to waste and that it is not at all a cliff.
He has plenty to time to play the victim, blame the GOP and get something done in February.

Besides, taxes are going up for everyone in January with the payroll tax break expiring and this is a perfect way to blame the GOP on that (even though the dems don't want to extend it either).

And as we all know, the GOP is always the victim.


Nah, the dems keep playing the victim card. "Oh poor us, we have the Presidency, had a majority in the House, had a majority in the Senate and those mean old GOP people are magically preventing us from our agenda. oh no, we got shellacked in the House in 2010, couldn't get it back in 2012 and now we are totally helpless"
 
2012-12-06 11:16:28 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Debeo Summa Credo: Great_Milenko: Please. We all know how this is going to play out. Obama's getting his tax increase with another time-bomb expiration date (but after he's out of office) and it's not going to happen until December 27, with him signing the "last minute" legislation on the Friday evening going into new years.

Republican's can dust off the "largest tax increase in history" lie again, talk radio callers will call in to say they're firing their pretend employees, and the economy will magically start to improve but it will never, ever, be credited to the tax increases.

What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.

1. Higher tax rates at a higher income level that 0bama wants - IIRC Pelosi proposed something like $1M a while ago.
This allows 0bama to get the class warfare win.
2. Some limit on deductions for higher income.
3. A plan for a plan on limited spending cuts which will be more likely "we will overspend less than we planned, so that is the same as a cut".


Somewhat agree with you that if there is a deal it will be for a lower rate/higher threshold than Obama is proposing. like 37 or 38% over 500k or something.

The cuts will be key... If the GOP can get meaningful entitlement reform they'll be okay with higher rates.

Will the rest of the cuts be made permanent? If we eliminate 10% of the cuts while making the other 90% permanent it will be a terrible deal.
 
2012-12-06 11:26:20 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Nah, the dems keep playing the victim card.


nah, republicans are times infinity! booyah! checkmate!
 
2012-12-06 11:27:12 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: tenpoundsofcheese: Debeo Summa Credo: Great_Milenko: Please. We all know how this is going to play out. Obama's getting his tax increase with another time-bomb expiration date (but after he's out of office) and it's not going to happen until December 27, with him signing the "last minute" legislation on the Friday evening going into new years.

Republican's can dust off the "largest tax increase in history" lie again, talk radio callers will call in to say they're firing their pretend employees, and the economy will magically start to improve but it will never, ever, be credited to the tax increases.

What do you predict the final deal will be? What will Obama give? What will Boehner give? What will be the rate and income level subject to hikes? Will the remaining cuts be made permanent?

Serious question. Everybody chime in.

1. Higher tax rates at a higher income level that 0bama wants - IIRC Pelosi proposed something like $1M a while ago.
This allows 0bama to get the class warfare win.
2. Some limit on deductions for higher income.
3. A plan for a plan on limited spending cuts which will be more likely "we will overspend less than we planned, so that is the same as a cut".

Somewhat agree with you that if there is a deal it will be for a lower rate/higher threshold than Obama is proposing. like 37 or 38% over 500k or something.

The cuts will be key... If the GOP can get meaningful entitlement reform they'll be okay with higher rates.

Will the rest of the cuts be made permanent? If we eliminate 10% of the cuts while making the other 90% permanent it will be a terrible deal.


Unfortunately I don't think the cuts will be permanent and will be more likely some gimicky thing since both sides like to spend.

I think reform may come in the form of raising some limits (ages, means testing).
 
2012-12-06 11:32:37 AM
How many Farkers knew who Arnold Ziffle was?

//other than "delicious"
 
2012-12-06 11:46:55 AM
The hikes are going to happen. They can do this the easy way, or the hard way and screw over a large amount of people in the process, but they are going to happen.
 
2012-12-06 11:51:10 AM

odinsposse: urbangirl: Debeo Summa Credo: Muta: incendi: Did Obama just get back from a recreational visit to Washington state? They might allow tax hikes for the wealthy, but they'll never AGREE to tax hikes for the wealthy.

Then the wealthy will get tax hikes when rates roll back to Clinton era levels when sequestration take place. From what I am reading is that the rates Obama is proposing are slightly less than Clinton era levels. If the GOP wants to save their keepers some money then they're better off working with Obama.

Do you think Obama wants to go off the cliff?

As Jon said, "At least for a moment we'll feel like we're flying."

The whole left/right divide on the fiscal cliff is so weird. The fiscal cliff is the institution of austerity measures. Not so long ago liberals were pointing out that austerity measures were bad for the economy and a terrible idea. Conservatives thought they were a great idea so we don't become another Greece. Now that those measures are happening there are a bunch of conservatives scared out of their minds that it will happen and a bunch of liberals saying "go ahead!"


That's because the austerity measures are time to coincide with significant revenue increases with the roll-back of the Bush tax cuts. And it's not just tax cuts on income people work for that are going to expire. The Bush tax cuts set the maximum tax rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends to 15%. Many of the well-to-do were able to start there and go below 15% through tax deductions. The rates for capital gains are set to go as high as 39% for top tiers. Since the top five percent of the economic tier account for 80% of the capital gains income in the country (the top 0.1% account for 50% of all capital gains income), this is the area that will impact the wealthiest the most. And it's not on the table.

As for the actual austerity measures, they are set to impact defense and social programs on a 50-50 basis. The "offer" the republicans put on the table earlier this week was:

1) No tax increases for anyone - make all Bush tax decreases permanent.
2) No cuts to defense - 100% of the proposed cuts will be to social programs, including Medicare and Social Security.
3) Proposed increase in revenue by closing undefined tax loopholes that may or may not impact the middle class more than the wealthy

Based on that offer, for the democrats, the cliff is better than accepting the republican offer because:

1) All the tax cuts will expire. It will be easier to get some tax breaks later for the middle class and poor, and the tax rates for the wealthy (for both regular income, capital gains, and dividends) will be higher.
2) Only half of the austerity measures will impact social programs instead of 100%
 
2012-12-06 11:58:28 AM

Foundling: How many Farkers knew who Arnold Ziffle was?

//other than "delicious"


Sometimes, the headlines are 1%er gags. I favor those best.
 
2012-12-06 12:20:52 PM

Foundling: How many Farkers knew who Arnold Ziffle was?

//other than "delicious"


How can you not know? Anthrax dedicated their cover of "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" to him.
 
2012-12-06 01:11:30 PM

Foundling: How many Farkers knew who Arnold Ziffle was?

//other than "delicious"


Lord, I even know his parents' names - Fred & Doris.
 
2012-12-06 01:12:28 PM

BinderWoman: Foundling: How many Farkers knew who Arnold Ziffle was?

//other than "delicious"

Lord, I even know his parents' names - Fred & Doris.


I would have liked to chow down on Lisa's Hotscakes.
 
2012-12-06 01:58:48 PM
www.jpuopolo.com
 
2012-12-06 02:43:40 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Nah, the dems keep playing the victim card. "Oh poor us, we have the Presidency, had a majority in the House, had a majority in the Senate and those mean old GOP people are magically preventing us from our agenda. oh no, we got shellacked in the House in 2010, couldn't get it back in 2012 and now we are totally helpless"


Maybe you should learn something about the legislative process.

*looks at handle*

Oh - nevermind.
 
2012-12-06 05:51:12 PM
But Gerhard Shnobble still soars!
 
2012-12-07 12:18:49 AM
Who is Arnold Ziffel and why should I care?
 
2012-12-07 01:39:44 AM

colithian: Who is Arnold Ziffel and why should I care?


Arnold was possessed of remarkable talents, though he was a bit swinish.
 
2012-12-10 12:13:45 AM
Charm. It's all about charm.
 
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