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(KWWL Waterloo)   Old and busted: $6 a gallon gas. New hotness: $6 a gallon milk   (kwwl.com) divider line 28
    More: Scary, safety nets, Iowa, supply management  
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5767 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2012 at 1:33 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-06 01:40:07 AM
3 votes:
$6 milk because we're putting the corn in the gas tanks instead of the cow.

Back to ye olde production possibility frontier.
2012-12-06 01:16:45 AM
3 votes:
and these same farmers are the ones who hang those big ass signs on the side of th road telling everyone Obama is a Muslim who wants to destroy america with socialism.
2012-12-06 03:00:51 AM
2 votes:
"A dairy industry without a farm bill could lead to much higher milk prices in the US."

because, you know, what farm bills do is convince farmers and agribusiness to work for less money.

I have absolutely no problem with $6/gallon milk if it means no subsidies. We'll end up better for it in the long term.

I also have no problem with $10 or even $20 gallons of gas if it means no subsidies via the defense industry. Heck, I pay almost $10 per gallon right now anyway (UK resident) and even so my total petrol bill is what - $3000-$4000 a year? Not going to kill me, and those are the kind of prices that force people to un-sprawl and to think about c0mmunist public transport infrastructure.
2012-12-06 02:35:50 AM
2 votes:

7th Son of a 7th Son: a 1/2 gallon lasts me over a month.


What the fark kind of lumpy green milk do you drink?
2012-12-06 02:33:59 AM
2 votes:

GAT_00: Bring on the glorious free market assrape, just the way unregulated free market should work.


Sarcasm? If not, proof (once more) that you seldom have any idea what you are talking about. Economics isn't simple. The fact of the matter is that we have a mixed economy, and the milk industry is currently front-loaded with all sorts of regulations that tend to drive up the price of operations. An important one, alluded to in the article, is the price of feed grain. Hmmmmm.... I wonder what federal program(s) could be causing the price of grain to go through the roof? Something something (cough cough ethanol cough cough) something something.....
2012-12-06 02:00:43 AM
2 votes:
These farmers are complaining about price supports that keep milk prices higher than they would be in a free market. They're scaring people. The price of milk should go down without the price supports. That's what they're afraid of.
2012-12-06 11:51:31 AM
1 votes:

muddythinker: These farmers are complaining about price supports that keep milk prices higher than they would be in a free market. They're scaring people. The price of milk should go down without the price supports. That's what they're afraid of.


That's what I thought as well.

If I remember correctly these protections were put in place during the great depression. During that time the cost of food drop so low it wasn't worth shipping to the big cities, which lead to starvation until the market naturally corrected itself.

I remember reading about ranchers killing herds of cattle and leaving them to rot because it was too expensive to maintain the herds and to ship the meat and leather.

Situations like that are what make libertarians that worship the "invisible hand of the market" laughable. I'm fairly libertarian myself but there needs to be some regulation in the market or we get situations like this.
2012-12-06 11:43:38 AM
1 votes:
The Canadian Dairy Commision calculates an estimated volume of milk needed in Canada in a given year, based on historical consumption. The farmers hold quota for a certain amount of butterfat. If the market expands, CDC grants every farmer an increase in (non-saleable) quota. If the market contracts, CDC revokes some quota starting with the nonsaleable portion. Milk price is determined by a cost of production formula and by where the milk is headed (the price of milk destined for cheese plants is lower than the price for fluid milk) Then there's border tarriffs on imports to keep farmers from being run out of business by American megafarms, subsidized europeans, etc. (Although 5% of our market is tarriff free)

The price of saleable quota is capped at $25000 per kg of butterfat. A kg of quota can be filled every day.

All in all the average farm price for milk was $0.71/L last year, and the average herd szie (in Ontario) is 72 cows

It's complicated, and not "free market" , but it allows farmer to make a living without cutting corners on animal care.

/not sure how well I've done explaining
2012-12-06 11:32:27 AM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: Once upon a mid-day sunny, while I savored Nuts 'N Honey,
With my Tuscan Whole Milk, 1 gal, 128 fl. oz., I swore
As I went on with my lapping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at the icebox door.....


Somebody get this farker an internets. That was beautiful.
2012-12-06 10:43:08 AM
1 votes:

Mr. Right: You are absolutely correct. Small farms that do exist are now considered niche farms. For dairy, it is simply not economically feasible to have less than about 300 cows - 6000 is better. When I was a kid, anyone with 100 cows was considered too big for the farmer to even be able to manage that many cows and keep track of them the way a farmer should. Cows suffer under current management practices.


actually, with current feed and fuel prices, it's the small family dairy farms that are still clinging to existence. they have lower labor costs because they have less hired help, and smaller feed bills because they mostly grow their own feed instead of purchasing it. we're milking about 250 head currently, and we're one of the largest dairy operations in the area - most everyone else milks 60-100 head. with current prices we're making less than half of what the smaller operations are actually sustainable. it's the large operations with hired help and huge feed bills that are struggling the most.
2012-12-06 10:20:28 AM
1 votes:
BoxOfBees: "As a Libertarian who is not an outrageous free-marketer, why the hell do we need to constantly subsidize, price-fix, and choose winners in food markets by pouring government funds into some programs (but not others) at taxpayer expense?"

Because the early-primary states are all food-production states.
So it ain't got shiat to do with any attempt to manage food production; it's just corporate welfare to curry favor.
2012-12-06 07:02:40 AM
1 votes:
Jesus, what is the big deal with milk prices? We only buy a gallon a week. I am more concerned with CHEESE prices. Going to start making my own. Need to find local raw milk for that.
2012-12-06 04:12:21 AM
1 votes:
Once upon a mid-day sunny, while I savored Nuts 'N Honey,
With my Tuscan Whole Milk, 1 gal, 128 fl. oz., I swore
As I went on with my lapping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at the icebox door.
'Bad condensor, that,' I muttered, 'vibrating the icebox door -
Only this, and nothing more.'

Not to sound like a complainer, but, in an inept half-gainer,
I provoked my bowl to tip and spill its contents on the floor.
Stupefied, I came to muddle over that increasing puddle,
Burgeoning deluge of that which I at present do adore -
Snowy Tuscan wholesomeness exclusively produced offshore -
Purg'ed here for evermore.

And the pool so white and silky, filled me with a sense of milky
Ardor of the type fantastic of a loss not known before,
So that now, to still the throbbing of my heart, while gently sobbing,
I retreated, heading straightway for the tempting icebox door -
Heedless of that pitter-patter tapping at the icebox door -
I resolved to have some more.

Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
'This,' said I, 'requires an extra dram of milk, my favorite pour.'
To the icebox I aspired, motivated to admire
How its avocado pigment complemented my decor.
Then I grasped its woodgrain handle - here I opened wide the door; -
Darkness there, and nothing more.

Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams of Tuscans I had known before
But the light inside was broken, and the darkness gave no token,
And the only words there spoken were my whispered words, 'No more!'
Coke and beer, some ketchup I set eyes on, and an apple core -
Merely this and nothing more.

Back toward the table turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
'Surely,' said I, 'surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore -
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore; -
'Tis the wind and nothing more!'

From the window came a stirring, then, with an incessant purring,
Inside stepped a kitten; mannerlessly did she me ignore.
Not the least obeisance made she; not a minute stopped or stayed she;
But, with mien of lord or lady, withdrew to my dining floor -
Pounced upon the pool of Tuscan spreading o'er my dining floor -
Licked, and lapped, and supped some more.

Then this tiny cat beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grand enthusiasm of the countenance she wore,
Toward the mess she showed no pity, 'til I said, 'Well, hello, kitty!'
Sought she me with pretty eyes that seemed to open some rapport.
So I pleaded, 'Tell me, tell me what it is that you implore!'
Quoth the kitten, 'Six farking dollars?!?'
2012-12-06 03:17:29 AM
1 votes:
Oh sure, but inflation is completely in check.
2012-12-06 03:03:39 AM
1 votes:
The problem in dairy farming, as with so many other aspects of farming, is that the farmer has no control of costs or prices. Dairy farmers do not set prices - they get paid for their milk what their consumers decide to pay. Dairy farmers do not get to set prices for feed - they have to pay what market forces decide they should pay. Unlike a factory, you can't simply shut off or turn on a dairy farm. After a cow freshens, she must be milked twice a day or she will stop producing milk (and given the high-producing nature of today's milk cows, she may well die if milking suddenly stops). If you decide you want to start milking and get a heifer calf today, it takes about 2 years until she starts milking - even if you have a cow ready to breed, it's about 40 weeks gestation until she drops a calf and starts producing milk.

Once you have a cow producing milk, you don't just sidle up with a bucket and a milking stool and start pulling teats. You need to have a licensed milking facility along with proper permits and all of the inspected and approved milk handling equipment to make sure the milk is safe and held at the right temperature until the bulk truck comes to pick it up and transport it to the processing plant. All of this represents a significant investment for the dairy farmer.

So, dairy farmers have no control over prices; no control over costs. Society as a whole deems dairy products to be necessary (there is no substitute for real cheese on anything from pizza to the pecan-encrusted, phyllo dough-wrapped Brie). For better or worse, the government stepped in to support dairy farmers from going bankrupt. Just like any other government program (or like heroin) dairy price supports are addictive. Market players like dairy processing plants, cheese plants, dried milk plants, etc. are well aware of this and bid the price of milk accordingly - if their profits are a bit low and their demand is a bit soft, they just drop the price of their raw material (milk), knowing that the government will make up the difference to the farmer. Dairy equipment manufacturer raises prices, impelement manufacturer raises prices, price of corn, SBOM, silage, hay, whatever goes up - dairy farmers need it; pay whatever is required to keep operating and look to the government to make up the difference because they have no control over costs.

It is a terribly complex web. I am not in favor of any subsidies but the government has so intruded into the farming game that any changes will need to be gradual and will need to prod consumers and suppliers to the ag industries to bear a larger part of the burden than they have historically been willing to do.
2012-12-06 02:24:48 AM
1 votes:

BoxOfBees: As a Libertarian who is not an outrageous free-marketer, why the hell do we need to constantly subsidize, price-fix, and choose winners in food markets by pouring government funds into some programs (but not others) at taxpayer expense? We are very fortunate in the US to have diverse staple sources - corn, wheat, soybeans, and even rice and potatoes - so people can easily switch staples during an off cycle. Cow's milk is not really a necessity and the price could rise and fall significantly without impacting anyone greatly (yes, I know the farmers complain when the prices fall because revenues decline, but what's new?). If we stop subsidizing corn ethanol, we get better quality gasoline and cheaper food prices across the board, as well as better use of farmland and less govt expenditure on ethanol programs. The "free market" can't do everything, but it is a great system for managing prices and supplies when people can choose to buy less or eat differently. Perhaps part of the problem is that we are operating as if it is still World War II and we have to delicately manage every aspect of food supply or we will all starve.


Yes to your last 15 words.

The rest LOL.
2012-12-06 02:22:20 AM
1 votes:
As a Libertarian who is not an outrageous free-marketer, why the hell do we need to constantly subsidize, price-fix, and choose winners in food markets by pouring government funds into some programs (but not others) at taxpayer expense? We are very fortunate in the US to have diverse staple sources - corn, wheat, soybeans, and even rice and potatoes - so people can easily switch staples during an off cycle. Cow's milk is not really a necessity and the price could rise and fall significantly without impacting anyone greatly (yes, I know the farmers complain when the prices fall because revenues decline, but what's new?). If we stop subsidizing corn ethanol, we get better quality gasoline and cheaper food prices across the board, as well as better use of farmland and less govt expenditure on ethanol programs. The "free market" can't do everything, but it is a great system for managing prices and supplies when people can choose to buy less or eat differently. Perhaps part of the problem is that we are operating as if it is still World War II and we have to delicately manage every aspect of food supply or we will all starve.
2012-12-06 02:06:39 AM
1 votes:
Hmm... at a certain point, people might be driven to buy soy milk instead.
2012-12-06 02:00:09 AM
1 votes:
also, dairy farming sort of sucks but does give you something to do twice a day, every day, no weekends...no vacations...no snow days...nope. twice a day, every day.

moo

fat chick thread?

bronanthebarbarian.files.wordpress.com
2012-12-06 01:59:16 AM
1 votes:
Stop giving welfare to those lazy, shiftless urban folks and "illegals"!!!
/now where are my farming subsidies!!
2012-12-06 01:48:08 AM
1 votes:
Funny, isn't it? How the idea of "starving the beast" always seems so bootstrappy and fun, until you realize that also means not paving the street *you* live on.
2012-12-06 01:45:48 AM
1 votes:
For a longtime, we have had a government mandated price floor on milk that set the price at an artificially high minimum. This is just fixing that.
2012-12-06 01:41:10 AM
1 votes:
Pshaw, $6.00? Try $12.00 on for size, and find out what a monopoly can do for you. And then get a wife and kid that drink milk like it's going out of style. Then you can complain!
2012-12-06 01:18:36 AM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Bring on the glorious free market assrape, just the way unregulated free market should work.


OK, we'll just need to calibrate your sphincter for a moment.

RELAX. 
2012-12-06 12:20:12 AM
1 votes:
Bring on the glorious free market assrape, just the way unregulated free market should work.
2012-12-05 11:57:37 PM
1 votes:
i43.photobucket.com
2012-12-05 11:55:44 PM
1 votes:
Meh... I get crappy mileage on milk, anyway
2012-12-05 11:50:10 PM
1 votes:
GODDAMMIT 0BAMA
 
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