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(NBC News)   Oh no the Syrian military didn't   (worldnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 281
    More: News, Syrians, officials told, NBC News, chemical weapons, Syrian Air Force, arms control agreements, U.S. officials, artillery shells  
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32832 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2012 at 8:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-12-05 08:08:06 PM
17 votes:

The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....


Fair point, but the use of chemical or biological weapons should be a red line for the entire world, not just America. No one even thinks of using these kinds of weapons for anything other than genocide, and humanity has a duty to itself to stop such insanity from coming to bear.
2012-12-05 08:16:34 PM
11 votes:

Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!
2012-12-05 08:19:57 PM
7 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


bingo. i don't care who owns that crappy section of desert as long as i didnt have to pay for it. i realize thats callous and cruel to say, but why should more of my friends die on the other side of the globe to try and sort things out in favor of a group who are no more fond of us than assad.
2012-12-05 08:15:19 PM
7 votes:
There's plenty the world could do, it's just the lack of will. What happened when Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds? Not a damn thing...
2012-12-05 08:42:13 PM
6 votes:
I really wish I was a child again sometimes, so I didn't have to care about this shiat. I'm just glad my innocence and naïveté lasted till I was about 10 yrs old. Seriously, the human race is one farked up species...so much hate and killing. I just don't understand it.

Absolutely straight up, laugh if you want, but it is very depressing to me at times
2012-12-05 08:19:29 PM
6 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


Yes, it is. This has the potential to engulf the entire Middle East including several of our allies who may or may not end up on the same side. This isn't the same situation as Iraq.
2012-12-05 09:11:01 PM
5 votes:

erik-k: In short, the British successfully tricked an appreciable fraction of earth's entire surface into a neverending flamewar with itself and escaped virtually unscathed by comparison, making the Royal Family probably the most enormously successful trolls of all time.


To say this is to assume that the Africans have no moral agency of their own -- i.e. that if Africans have only to be provoked in a certain way to automatically cause them to commit genocide against each other, through no fault of their own. If the map of the United States were to be rejiggered tomorrow by an outside power so that there were only 13 irregularly- shaped states instead of the current 57 (sic) would you Americans all suddenly go apesh*t and start killing each other? I mean Texans might, but everyone else? Colonialism gets the blame for all of Africa's and Middle East's problems, but ethnic strife has raged in these regions since time immemorial and the excuse is wearing a bit thin.
2012-12-05 08:10:15 PM
5 votes:

GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone


Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.
2012-12-05 09:54:58 PM
4 votes:

RealAmericanHero: Amos Quito: You assume that the information we have been given is accurate.

I assume that there are games afoot, and remain VERY skeptical.

I believe in the sanity of a Democrat White House a lot more than a Republican White House. Most Republican's are certifiably nuts, so I can't really put their failures on anyone else.


upload.wikimedia.org

Woodrow Wilson - Democrat. Got us into WWI

upload.wikimedia.org

FDR - Democrat - got us into WWII

upload.wikimedia.org

Harry Truman, Democrat. Got us into the Korean War and the start of the Cold War

upload.wikimedia.org

JFK, Democrat. Really got the ball rolling in Vietnam

upload.wikimedia.org

LBJ, Democrat - drastically escalated the Vietnam war

Sorry but I don't share your enthusiasm for white house Democrats.

/Or Republicans, for that matter
//Tweedle (D)
///Tweedle (R)
2012-12-05 09:04:32 PM
4 votes:

wildcardjack: It's as if the region was gerrymandered to create the most strife.


That's basically exactly what the British did when they cast off their colonies in the region, and in Africa: "If we can't have it, let's just draw the lines on the map so the natives are guaranteed to be at each other's throats forever, then at least there won't be any competitors arising from the region."

In short, the British successfully tricked an appreciable fraction of earth's entire surface into a neverending flamewar with itself and escaped virtually unscathed by comparison, making the Royal Family probably the most enormously successful trolls of all time.
2012-12-05 08:35:45 PM
4 votes:

mr lawson: Not our problem.


And if you are willing to stand by and saying that chemical warfare against civilians is simply a "problem" and even worse isn't our problem, then quite frankly I don't want to have anything to do with you. You're almost as bad as the people who would actually use these weapons.
2012-12-05 08:22:26 PM
4 votes:
The military has loaded the precursor chemicals for sarin, a deadly nerve gas, into aerial bombs that could be dropped onto the Syrian people from dozens of fighter-bombers, the officials said.

Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim has difficulty breathing and experiences nausea and drooling. As the victim continues to lose control of bodily functions, the victim vomits, defecates and urinates. This phase is followed by twitching and jerking. Ultimately, the victim becomes comatose and suffocates in a series of convulsive spasms.

ya..you guys bring this to the table, and it's all over biatches. You're going to get raped. Don't even think about it.
2012-12-06 12:36:36 AM
3 votes:

Radioactive Ass: BronyMedic: BarkingUnicorn: Nope. As others have noted, dead is dead.

Sorry, I beg to differ.

Dead may be dead, but the method of doing so is different. A bullet is rather discriminate. It's only going to kill who you shoot it in the general direction of.

Sarin Gas? It's indiscriminate, and horrific. It's a slow, painful and suffering death, and the survivors will continue to suffer long after the shells are gone, and the war has ended. It doesn't care about men, women, or children. Infants or the elderly. It doesn't care if you're involved in the conflict, or just trying to flee the area.

It's murder on a scale unthinkable. A single shell can kill thousands of people in a civilian area.

But dead is dead, right?

At the end of the day, yes. Dead is dead whether it's by poison or by bullets or with a machete. One is just more efficient than the others but both can and have been used for genocides.

It's also usually frowned upon here to post images of dead animals, much less people. Link to them with a warning instead or face a vacation (or worse), if it's not too late already.


I'm not posting them to be funny, or to troll. The apathy regarding the use of Nerve Gas by an ostensibly civilized nation against it's own people is sickening. Historical images of the dying get posted on here all the time. Any holocaust thread will be rife with victim photos.

People need to see the human face of what this does. What dying while choking on your own vomit and secretions, while your muscles go limp and every muscle in your body involuntarily spasms, and you slowly suffocate looks like.

Victims of the Halabja gas attack. Dead kids. Lots of them.
2012-12-05 10:58:56 PM
3 votes:
Dear Princess Celestia,

17 years ago, a bunch of Japanese cultists did something very bad on a subway. In the ensuing media panic, I learned that basic solutions like washing soda (sodium carbonate), household bleach (sodium hypochlorite, and diluting it a bit is a decent idea), or even lye (sodium hydroxide, and diluting it is really important), all followed by a good rinse with water - were good ideas. I also learned that acidic solutions were bad ideas, so if Bear Grylls (who nobody'd heard of back then) shows up and suggests rinsing with uric acid, you should probably stop him before he makes an already bad situation worse.

I've never needed to remember that, but at the time, it sounded important enough not to forget. So today, I'm just gonna write it down again while continuing to hope that nobody here, nor anybody else half a world away, on any side of any conflict, ever needs to remember it.

Your faithful (but getting annoyed with the state of humanity these days) student,
Twilight Farkle.
2012-12-05 10:07:45 PM
3 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


atomicmask: Not our problem.

Let them gas, genocide, and destroy themselves till they are all dead and gone. That is evolution telling human nature that it needs to clean itself out.

Not, our, problem.


www.martinfrost.ws

'Not our problem,' amirite?
2012-12-05 09:51:11 PM
3 votes:

atomicmask: robhidalgo: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

I would think that mass genocide is everyone's problem, since standing by while it occurs would set a disturbing precedent.

Yeah Darfur and Somolia really rattled cages in the world the past 10 years...


No one gives a shiat a bout genocide. We shouldn't. Unless it is done to us, we need to step back and let the world fix itself.


I do. There is no better use of such an absurdly powerful military than to stop thousands of civilians being murdered by a despot.
2012-12-05 09:39:20 PM
3 votes:
You folks arguing over whether or not the US/NATO/neighboring countries/grey aliens/albigensians/battle pope/superman should intervene or not are taking the wrong approach. Syrian warplanes are bombing the outskirts of Damascus. Several sections of the countryside are effectively in rebel hands, and Assad is hearing reports from foreign media that his daddy's house of cards is falling around his ears.

He's desperate. His position is growing increasingly untenable politically and militarily. He can't run away, because he wouldn't be able to take all the Alawites with him, and they'd kill him if they thought he was leaving them to face the inevitable retribution once the rebels win. He probably can't fight and win conventionally, because he's running out of effective military power from defections, combat losses, and crippled logistics. If he uses his ace-in-the-hole (WMDs), the entire rest of the world will land on him with all four feet. He feels trapped, and a significant percentage of his military staff are probably thinking about making a deal involving his head on a platter. He's got to do something, or his own people will give him the Mussolini treatment in a (probably vain) attempt to curry favor with the victors.

We (the rest of the world) need to offer him some options that don't involve suicide by NATO and/or several hundred thousand dead and maimed civilians. FSM knows he doesn't deserve a break, but Assad and his backers need to have a reasonable belief that they could survive this charlie-foxtrot. Otherwise, there's the very real possibility of sarin-laden bombs and missiles landing on Syrian cities- and possibly Israeli, Turkish, and Jordanian cities, too.

I'm not in a position where my opinion carries any weight, but I submit it would be cheap at ten times the price to simply arrange for Assad and his top military and political flunkies (along with all their families) to be flown out of Syria to a lovely retirement villa in Tuscany/Provence/fill-in-the-blank-resort-area and given several million dollars each. Better that than regional/world war or even a few hundred thousand gassed civilians (of any nationality).

/My brace of small copper coins
2012-12-05 09:33:59 PM
3 votes:
kendelrio: Honestly, I don't give a fark which side of the political spectrum you land on..... Using Sarin gas is farking HORRIFIC!!! The agony involved in the dying is farking horrible! We aren't talking about soldiers who are (or should be) prepared to fight in a chemical environment. We are talking about civilians; men, women and children.

It making you feel good is not a reason to go to war, especially if you aren't the one who is going to fight it.
2012-12-05 09:31:26 PM
3 votes:

Omahawg: most obvious? israeli air strike in 5-4-3-2......


Israel only attacks people who can't defend themselves. Syria has anti-air defenses.
2012-12-05 08:45:57 PM
3 votes:

mr lawson: GAT_00: And if you are willing to stand by and saying that chemical warfare against civilians is simply a "problem" and even worse isn't our problem, then quite frankly I don't want to have anything to do with you. You're almost as bad as the people who would actually use these weapons.

Who are you gonna bomb? Both side are bad. One just slightly less than the other.
That is the problem. There doesn't seem to be a side that wants equal right for all.
Make no mistake I would not shed a single tear if the current president died. But this is the person who won their "election". They voted for him.


Ok, I am utterly done with you forever. This is the worst apologist shiat I've ever read.
2012-12-05 08:41:00 PM
3 votes:
Anyone know if little brother Maher al-Assad is still among the living? It's kind of important, since he was the head of the military and secret police, and he'd be the one actually ordering the bombing if he's still alive. Also, there were indications Assad was willing to step down in favor of Maher earlier this year...before the Damascus bombing in July.

If Assad's back is as against the wall as this nerve-gas threat seems to indicate, then maybe the US should be interested. The last thing we need is ANOTHER unsupported power vacuum in the Middle East. Not saying we should get involved, but maybe we want to see what Turkey and Jordan are going to do.
2012-12-05 08:40:25 PM
3 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: cameroncrazy1984: JohnAnnArbor: cameroncrazy1984: JohnAnnArbor: Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office

No, because that never happened.

ORLY?

/ya rly.

No, what I mean is it wasn't "in violation of the law"

Well, you're still a dumbass.


And it's still not a violation of the Logan act for a member of Congress to travel overseas and make a speech.
2012-12-05 08:40:08 PM
3 votes:

AlwaysRightBoy: The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....

According to news I'm listening to, they have 60 days before it goes bad.

/could be an interesting/scary 60 days


It's not like US is a key player on the security council of some kind of union of countries that tries to keep peace in the world and prevent atrocities and war crimes.
2012-12-05 08:37:12 PM
3 votes:

The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....


That depends. Are we doing it Bush style or Obama style?

Because we could fund 2 or 3 Obama-in-Libyas per year by simply digging the spare change out of the Pentagon's couch (not, of course, to suggest that it's purely a monetary issue), and not even have a single casket or wheelchair to deal with afterwards.

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.


To be fair, the White House isn't currently being run a cabal of sociopaths fronted by a charming man with Alzheimer's.
2012-12-05 08:31:49 PM
3 votes:
I swear Assad and his family act like this is a farking game. biatch was worrying about getting the newest Harry Potter books, and, I don't know- her favorite jelly or some such mundane shiat.
While hubby was having a busy day at work trying to commit genocide on the people he's supposed to be leading.

They are real people, not numbers, ffs. No re-spawning.
2012-12-05 08:23:00 PM
3 votes:

Mentat: Yes, it is. This has the potential to engulf the entire Middle East including several of our allies who may or may not end up on the same side. This isn't the same situation as Iraq.


Nope...Let's try letting them killing off each other for a while. The whole Middle East seem to want war. Fine. Let'em have it.

NOT OUR PROBLEM
2012-12-05 08:17:48 PM
3 votes:
We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!
2012-12-05 08:15:26 PM
3 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone

Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.


If he's doing this, he's already close to an ass kicking. This is a sign of desperation. The people should free themselves, we just make sure they can.
2012-12-06 02:40:54 AM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: That's what atomicmask and I are saying, too. We value our children, and the other children of our country, more than we value the children of another country.


Uh, no. I believe atomicmask said he's alright with the Syrian people getting gassed because they'e Muslims who support Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood, and are anti-west.

Credit where credit is due.
2012-12-06 02:04:13 AM
2 votes:

BronyMedic: Turkey has around 40 B61 Thermonuclear Free-Fall bombs that the US gifted them during the cold war that they could use to make Syria regret the use of WMDs against them.

I'd like to think Assad isn't that stupid, or suicidal, but....as recent events are going...


WMD for WMD is the usually stated response (MAD) and I don't disagree with that philosophy (I did spend almost a decade on Boomers after all). I don't think that Turkey would lob a weapon back right away and they would probably at a minimum consult with NATO and at least inform Russia before they responded in kind. But like I said earlier it would really depend upon the situation at the time and I don't think that Russia will get involved at that point if Syria (the government) was the one to initiate any exchange of that type. They know what the stakes are concerning getting involved with a NATO country after it's been attacked with WMD's and they aren't that dumb.
2012-12-06 01:20:38 AM
2 votes:

atomicmask: You think the united states cares what it has signed and did not sign with nations? It was a big farking show. My screen name is from a time when I worked in the WMD field for the USA. I can tell you, we do not give two shiats about policies. if it comes down to the line, and it is us vs them, its gonna be them, and its gonna be anyway we can. Nuke, bio, or chemical.

Again you live in a charmed world, a fake, but charmed world.


fayinc.files.wordpress.com

Your argument is that the United States has a secret, offensive bioweapons program in violation of every charter that it has invoked and signed to since 1973? And you know this because you "Worked in the WMD Field for the United States", when saying such, even if it were true, would violate your clearance in a rather obvious and public way?

Yeah. And I know people who worked in the Air Force who can SWARE that they worked on UFOs at Nellis Air Force Base. It was on History Channel, so I know it to be true.

This. This is you. You are the Jessy Ventura/Flynavy of Fark now.

i223.photobucket.com

atomicmask: The united states lies, a lot, about everything. We say we are pro freedom, yet we prop up tyrants and dictators all the time. We say we love democracy, yet we rig elections in other nations or kill the politicans we don't like if they win. Governments are liars, they exist to hold power, the best liars hold power the longest and get idiots like you to buy into the whole good guy bad guy routine.


So not only are you a heartless advocate of genocide since it's the middle east, and they "all" support Al Queda over there, you're a conspiracy theorist too?
2012-12-06 01:15:58 AM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Omahawg: BarkingUnicorn: Omahawg: yes, i'd kill your kids to save my kids too. but i wouldn't gas your kids to death to keep my job.

You'd rather watch your kids starve than gas mine?

somehow I doubt the little assad yowwens will starve to death no matter what happens to their weak-chinned father. the rest of the alawites? i'd head back up to the mountains.

You dodged the question. It's a tough question, I admit.


Your assumption is that Taking a Third Option doesn't exist. It's a false dilemma.
2012-12-06 01:00:17 AM
2 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

atomicmask: Not our problem.

Let them gas, genocide, and destroy themselves till they are all dead and gone. That is evolution telling human nature that it needs to clean itself out.

Not, our, problem.

[www.martinfrost.ws image 400x240]

'Not our problem,' amirite?


Pretty ironic, given how America did not give the slightest crap about the death camps. You weren't out to save anyone from genocide, it was just a pretty revisionist story so you could think you were awesome despite the fact you spent most of the war looking the other way whilst your corporations did business with the Nazis. Then you had an "oh crap, we let this happen" PR crisis and have been desperately painting yourselves as saviours of the Jewish people since.

Do you not have any idea what Americans themselves thought of Jews in the 1930s and 1940s? THEY HATED THEM. A lot of wealthy Americans (and Britons) were pro-Nazi. A lot of places would not employ Jews, rent to Jews, or allow them inside (e.g. swimming pools). Your government literally refused to help Jews fleeing the Holocaust immigrate to America even though they knew what was happening. Here's a lovely Wikipedia quote for you:

"In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that "Jews are different and should be restricted" and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported. Several surveys taken from 1940 to 1946 found that Jews were seen as a greater threat to the welfare of the United States than any other national, religious, or racial group. [...] Jews also noted the influence of antisemitism when the U.S. State Department opposed efforts to lower immigration barriers to admit Jews and other refugees fleeing the Holocaust and Nazi-occupied Europe. Thus, antisemitism was fairly widespread in the U.S, a sentiment which reduced the inclination of Americans to help the Jews in Europe."

I know you all love the rewrite history to make yourselves out to be saviours of the world but I will reiterate:

AMERICA DIDN'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THE JEWS BEING SLAUGHTERED because AMERICANS HATED JEWS AS WELL.

Please keep your revisionist "shining city on a hill" bullshiat out of this discussion. And maybe read a proper history book and not one of your government-approved propaganda-ridden school books.
2012-12-06 12:55:12 AM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Omahawg: at some point people need to pull their heads outta their asses. dead kids, man? that dont' bug you?

It's called the survival instinct. It's strongest near me and weakest far from me. I'd kill you to save myself. I'd kill your kids to save my kids. I wouldn't send my kids to die in order to save your kids.


And that's why they were called the greatest generation.

i2.cdn.turner.com

www.sanfranciscosentinel.com
2012-12-06 12:51:19 AM
2 votes:

debug: Except Rwanda is over. It's actually still happening in Congo and we could do something about it right now, but we aren't. So why should we do anything about Syria? What makes those people more important?


You can stop what's going to happen in Syria. You actually have a national Government who's promoting genocide of it's own people for the crime of daring to disagree with them.

Unless you're going to kill anything that moves in the Congo, you're never going to stop religious warfare and violence there. It's a matter of doing what you can for who you can. It doesn't make them less important, by any means.
2012-12-06 12:14:20 AM
2 votes:
This is what Sarin Gas Does.

It is a horrible death.

upload.wikimedia.org

4.bp.blogspot.com

news.bbc.co.uk

lynnjohnsonphoto.com

The long-term survivors of Sarin Gas attacks have chronic illnesses that resemble Muscular Dystrophy and advanced Leukemias. They are crippled for the rest of their life unless antidotes are administered repeatedly and immediately.
2012-12-05 11:56:49 PM
2 votes:
Just in case anyone wants the hook up, I can give you a good deal!

api.ning.com

www.proprofs.com
2012-12-05 11:52:35 PM
2 votes:
If they actually use Sarin gas, the effects are not going to be able to be hidden. Nerve gasses kill on an industrial scale, and are obvious in the way they do so.
2012-12-05 10:40:33 PM
2 votes:

rev. dave: There's a lot of desperation in the air. Also a lot of crazy. People acting in very bad judgement all over the place. I would like to count on people using their humanity. Recent history has shown no evidence of humane treatment. Very bad mix.


Same as it ever was, I'm afraid.
2012-12-05 10:11:34 PM
2 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Omahawg: I swear some of you never watched the tee vee news during the last quarter of the 20th century. there hasn't been a time in my life when bad shiat was going down somewhere on this planet. [snip image] mr. pot is saying 'what's new under the sun, dawg?'

The history of Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge in the mid- 1970s really has to be read to believed... whole cities being emptied of their inhabitants to appease the resentments of Marxist peasants; people being shot for having soft hands, talking too intelligently, or wearing glasses; children being trained as soldiers and encouraged to rat out their parents; and as much as a third of the population ending up dead in the end... it's a useful corrective for those who believe that Communism or some kind of hard- left centralized society is sure to work just great the next time -- or, for that matter, even just a corrective to those who believe that human beings are naturally good.


No one has ever reported hauntings of the killing fields of Cambodia. I consider this to be among the strongest possible evidence that there is no such thing as ghosts.
2012-12-05 10:10:00 PM
2 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: The Derp Squad must be pretty confused. Military spending is their only acceptable government expenditure to the point we're spending brazillions of dollars for the most advanced killing machines in history. Here's a chance to kill more brown Muslims. THERE ARE ACTUAL WMD THIS TIME! And all the sudden they want to follow the Monroe Doctrine.


This. Wtf guys. You were fine with multiple decade long nation building, budget sapping farking multi billion dollar defense contractor orgy wars that were mostly a mercenary power and money grab. But stopping an actual real live about to happen genocide is suddenly bad.

Actually, I take that back. I'm not surprised at all. If you analyze any situation and think, "hmm, what would Sauron do" you can pretty much bet that that is the side the GOP and their forum armies will choose.
2012-12-05 10:06:12 PM
2 votes:
www.thespoiledchild.com
Why wont you support out imperial war? WHERES YOUR BASIC SENSE OF MORALITY?
2012-12-05 10:01:30 PM
2 votes:
Dear Syria,

southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

Really? Is this how you want it to go down? The international community doesn't want to get involved, so please stop twisting our arm.

Dear Russia and China,

southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

I know some of the smaller nations you are allied with (Iran, North Korea, and Syria) wouldn't mind starting WWIII, but us grown up countries need to have a sit down. You don't want to fight us, and we don't want to fight you. Hell, I mean us and China have a pretty good business thing going. And Russia, we did the Cold War dance, it was fun and all, but in retrospect it was a waste of both our times and since then we've been pretty cool.

Point I'm getting at is that I doubt you want to see Syria get all chemical weapony, so please use your influence and get them to smarten up. And if they do end up using them, can you please keep some of the other nations at bay if we find ourselves in a combat situation? Even better, perhaps you could guys could go in and get Syria to smarten up? I doubt you want to see chemical weapons used against a population as well, and it would absolve us from getting involved.

I mean, c'mon.

/image is hot
2012-12-05 09:48:50 PM
2 votes:
I swear some of you never watched the tee vee news during the last quarter of the 20th century. there hasn't been a time in my life when bad shiat was going down somewhere on this planet.

www.historyplace.com

mr. pot is saying 'what's new under the sun, dawg?'
2012-12-05 09:36:14 PM
2 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


I would think that mass genocide is everyone's problem, since standing by while it occurs would set a disturbing precedent.
2012-12-05 09:31:52 PM
2 votes:
Not our problem.

Let them gas, genocide, and destroy themselves till they are all dead and gone. That is evolution telling human nature that it needs to clean itself out.

Not, our, problem.

I do not give a shiat about women and children in syria, I do not give a shiat about civilians, I give a shiat about american lives and money, neither of which we can toss aimlessly into another faux heroics war and then piss another billion or 10 away building and running a country full of ass backward muslims that will ultimately hand the entire nation over to the muslim brotherhood anyway.

fark that, let them die themselves since they are gonna piss away the sacrifice creating another theocracy.
2012-12-05 09:30:21 PM
2 votes:
look, the guy was raised to be what? a dentist? his back is against the wall and he knows it. He's lost support of the sunni majority and I don't think the christian or druze minorities will want this to happen. unless russia lets him come live in some daika on the black sea he'll do whatever he can so the alawites don't lynch his ass 'cause they're running scared now too 'cause they've been walking around like a formerly oppressed minority suddenly in charge for decades now. at the same time, the Lebanese have all kinds of beefs, as do the iraqis considering how well their refugees were treated during America's most recent foray into idiocy.

and the turks? they sure as shiat don't want an expanded kurdistan on their southern and eastern border ('cause kurd people problems)

most obvious? israeli air strike in 5-4-3-2......
2012-12-05 09:23:11 PM
2 votes:

Magorn: need a bigger boom than those can deliver. just blowing up the site risks releasing the chemical agents. This calls for a strike by FAE (fuel air explosives) or a "Daisy cutter" 16,000 lb conventional bomb or a small nuke so you guarantee you cook off the bad shiat at the site in the ensuing inferno


Nerve gas has what's called "persistence". Its how long it lasts after being deployed. Usually less than an hour. This is so friendly troops can take over before the dead guys can be reinforced. Hard to imagine that we would care if the burning rubble of planes spewing nerve gas is killing the very same folks who launched the attack. Also, I think that, for the safety of the people doing the deployment of the gas, that it needs to be proactively mixed immediately prior to use. Perhaps due to its volatility. In that case, blowing up planes on the ground, or in the air, about to deploy, would be harmless.
2012-12-05 08:59:51 PM
2 votes:

Mentat: f. We can't just ignore it


We did that once with chemical weapons, on top of various other genocide we've ignored, it never works out well for anyone in the long term.
2012-12-05 08:59:30 PM
2 votes:
The BBC broadcast this on the evening news tonight... but they were just citing the same source I think.

The risk here is of course a conflict which spreads through the region. (Unless you are Syrian of course and have bigger fish to fry) The region is so unstable it's always a concern if something like dense. urban chem attacks occur. The Kurds were a different matter... mostly rural compared to a large Syrian city, and what about 5,000 people killed. A Sarin attack from truly militarized delivery system on a dense urban population would be potentially devastating to the entire region, not to mention to the Syrian civilian population.

The US would have virtually no choice but to intervene.
2012-12-05 08:58:30 PM
2 votes:

johnnyrocket: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.


unless they are in africa?
2012-12-05 08:55:16 PM
2 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.
2012-12-05 08:53:14 PM
2 votes:

just_intonation: Gyrfalcon: Anyone know if little brother Maher al-Assad is still among the living? It's kind of important, since he was the head of the military and secret police, and he'd be the one actually ordering the bombing if he's still alive. Also, there were indications Assad was willing to step down in favor of Maher earlier this year...before the Damascus bombing in July.

If Assad's back is as against the wall as this nerve-gas threat seems to indicate, then maybe the US should be interested. The last thing we need is ANOTHER unsupported power vacuum in the Middle East. Not saying we should get involved, but maybe we want to see what Turkey and Jordan are going to do.

What I'm hoping for is that the Arab countries (Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) actually intervene. It's as much their problem as ours -- and they should be very concerned should Assad launch a chemical attack on anyone and any chemical weapon land anywhere within Israeli territory. I wouldn't put it past him to do that intentionally, and I don't think any of the other ME countries would want that to happen, either, under ANY circumstances.


Turkey isn't Arab, as I'm sure Turks and Arabs would both love to point out at some length.
2012-12-05 08:50:11 PM
2 votes:

mr lawson: Mentat: I think we've tried that a few dozen times already. Doesn't seem to help.

Maybe not, but it doesn't cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of US lives for the same results.



WW II had no costs in US dollars and US lives? We sat out of it while Europe burned because it was "not our problem"?

Syria has been going at it for awhile now. The British should have intervened, but I suppose they sit on their hands because, well simply Blair and his association with the war drumming for Iraq.

The use of Chemical Weapons will lead to a greater escalation in Syria and the region around it. We can try and prevent that escalation or we can sit back say "not our problem" and be sucked into a much larger problem later on.

This is a truly worrisome problem. It can not be underestimated. This is why SS Clinton is warning Asssad of the implications of a decision to use these weapons. If he does use them, expect to see a very large retaliation, most likely by the US, possibly NATO, or maybe the British, if they ever find their balls again.

Ah look at this Britian is stepping up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9721126/Br i tain-has-directly-warned-Assad-of-immediate-response-if-Syria-uses-che mical-weapons.html

Good.
2012-12-05 08:48:04 PM
2 votes:
Funny how this story has been reported widely and with such veracity. From what I hear, Assad's jets are getting knocked out with AA missiles and his artillery is hell and gone from the fighting.

He must be planning to deliver the chemical weapons by truck.
2012-12-05 08:47:39 PM
2 votes:
We need to do this gulf war 1 style, or Libya style. Completely crush their air power and offensive capability in 48 hrs and fly on home, let the resistance mop up.

We can't do a Bush 2 style anything. That guy was the farking anti-Midas, everything he touched turned to failure and mediocrity.
2012-12-05 08:46:46 PM
2 votes:
Don't GIS Halabja.
2012-12-05 08:44:18 PM
2 votes:
If Assad uses chemical weapons it will be very difficult for China and Russia to continue vetoing any sort of international intervention and reconciliation. If there is not any sort of international peace-keeping than it's gonna be a very rough spot that the Alawites, the 10% of the population who have been running shiat for 60 years, find themselves in. This could just be a bluff but it's hard to see how Assad could think that this would help his chances of not ending up being hung in a market square. He might just be enough of a bastard to use a WMD on his own people (you hear that acronym a lot less on the news when there's no international contracts to be had)
2012-12-05 08:43:41 PM
2 votes:

BravadoGT: This should be some party--who will show up? Turkey? Hezbollah? Israel? The US? Iran?

/gonna need some more snacks


I predict a combined force that which hasn't been seen...ever.

Nothing short of a force that'll prevent anyone from getting their hands on such a weapon outside of Syria for nefarious purposes and a major assault being issued not only by our allies, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of shiat we haven't seen since a very long time.
2012-12-05 08:41:16 PM
2 votes:
skull valley, 1968. never forget....

upload.wikimedia.org
2012-12-05 08:39:21 PM
2 votes:

bulldg4life: I haven't kept up on the outrage, but is the GOP angry that Obama is doing too much or not enough?


Both. Simultaneously.
2012-12-05 08:34:02 PM
2 votes:
http://theaviationist.com/2012/12/05/mig23-attack/#.UL_00Xj74Vb

Video from Syria shows Assad has started dropping thermobaric bombs.

If he wants to get more brutal, there's nowhere left to go for him but chemical weapons.
2012-12-05 08:32:47 PM
2 votes:

ShadowLAnCeR: cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.

The real question is, can you live with yourself knowing that your country could have done something to stop it and didn't? Will you just shrug off the millions this country's "leader" would kill to remain in power?


The same damn thing has happened in Africa for a long time. Maybe not with chemical weapons, but genocide nonetheless. Not that I like it, but if we are going in to stop the genocide for moral reasons, there are plenty of areas we need to go to, and should have gone into besides Syria in order for that to work

/uganda, congo, etc aren't just places for fark to make dark jokes about
//fart of darkness
2012-12-05 08:32:11 PM
2 votes:

bulldg4life: I haven't kept up on the outrage, but is the GOP angry that Obama is doing too much or not enough?


If Libya was any guide, they will be angry that he isn't doing anything until he does something, at which point they will object that he had no right to do so. 

But as someone else pointed out, I want some confirmation from a non-US source (and Israel doesn't count) that this is really happening.
2012-12-05 08:31:41 PM
2 votes:

ShadowLAnCeR: cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.

The real question is, can you live with yourself knowing that your country could have done something to stop it and didn't? Will you just shrug off the millions this country's "leader" would kill to remain in power?


Syria is not the United States. Syria is a sovereign nation who is filled with people known as Syrians.

Sure, it would horrify me, but unless Syria commits some sort of military attack upon us, we should not get involved. This is Syria's problem. Syria has to work this out with themselves.
2012-12-05 08:31:28 PM
2 votes:
I think we'd be able to inhibit the use of chemical weapons but not entirely prevent it, mainly with air power. The good thing to that plan is that we wouldn't have to risk any troops on the ground, as the ground troops might not be properly equipped to handle a sarin chemical weapon. The rate-limiting factor would be the rate at which we'd be able to gather intelligence on the whereabouts of the chemical weapons.
2012-12-05 08:29:51 PM
2 votes:
Assad has nothing to lose at this point - he's going down and he's taking as many people as he can with him.

We need some ninjas to sneak in and take hims out quickly. We have ninjas, right?

/Or we could try the $25 million bounty again
2012-12-05 08:28:32 PM
2 votes:

mr lawson: Mentat: Yes, it is. This has the potential to engulf the entire Middle East including several of our allies who may or may not end up on the same side. This isn't the same situation as Iraq.

Nope...Let's try letting them killing off each other for a while. The whole Middle East seem to want war. Fine. Let'em have it.

NOT OUR PROBLEM


Just keep that idea firmly in mind when the inevitable pictures of hundreds to thousands of dead women/children in the streets, dead where the stood when the gas hit, start pouring in after he does use them. Screaming not our problem will make it all go away....
2012-12-05 08:28:04 PM
2 votes:
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com

/Hot
2012-12-05 08:27:31 PM
2 votes:

Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!


wouldn't be surprised if these were Saddam's chemicals they transported over the boarder after the US announced we were moving into Iraq.


They better get a hurry on it... the Mayans' date is approaching fast!

2012-12-05 08:26:13 PM
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: JohnAnnArbor: Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office

No, because that never happened.


ORLY?

/ya rly.
2012-12-05 08:26:05 PM
2 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: Remember when Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office? "The road to peace goes through Damascus," or some such nonsense? Accomplishing exactly nothing?

Good times.

/The little dork eye doctor was always a murderer, geniuses.


Nancy Pelosi is a dousche no matter who's in charge.
2012-12-05 08:24:54 PM
2 votes:
If true, then this is a nightmare - but I want to see a source cited other than "U.S. officials." I can't find any mention of this on the BBC, other British sites, Al Jazeera English, or other Middle Eastern news sites. The only other mention outside of the US media was from the Jerusalem Post. I'd think that if weapons had been loaded then the world media would be all over this.
2012-12-05 08:24:52 PM
2 votes:

cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us


What in the f*ck does this even mean?
2012-12-05 08:22:02 PM
2 votes:
I have a feeling Turkey is going to take issue with this.
2012-12-05 08:18:35 PM
2 votes:
At this point, it's as if Assad wants UN intervention...
2012-12-05 08:18:29 PM
2 votes:

cman: So another war in the middle east for us then, right?


You'd rather watch genocide in HD on the nightly news?
2012-12-05 08:16:53 PM
2 votes:
So another war in the middle east for us then, right?
2012-12-05 08:16:12 PM
2 votes:
yellowcake 2.0?
2012-12-05 08:16:10 PM
2 votes:
Meanwhile the Russians keep doing business.
2012-12-05 08:08:34 PM
2 votes:
Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone
2012-12-05 08:07:10 PM
2 votes:

The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....


According to news I'm listening to, they have 60 days before it goes bad.

/could be an interesting/scary 60 days
2012-12-05 07:53:38 PM
2 votes:
About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....
2012-12-06 07:59:22 PM
1 votes:

Keizer_Ghidorah: atomicmask: BronyMedic: atomicmask: And for your highly dramatic and uninformed opinion, the syrian government wants to gas muslims, I am the one saying I do not care if they get gassed.

That's nice. Do you have more conspiracy theories for us, there, Robert Oppenheimer?

atomicmask: OH MY POOR FARK REPUTATION? DEAR GOD WHAT WILL I DO WITHOUT BEING INVITED TO THE UNPOPULAR KIDS TABLE ON THE INTERNET. JESUS ALL THE BRONIE CONVENTIONS I WILL MISS.

It is not our problem. that is not our country. Those are not our people. They must sort themselves out, not us. This whole United states chip and dale rescue rangers act has gotten us bankrupt and in decline. I am concerned with american lives, american children, and american soldiers, not syrian. not egyptian, not chinese, not russian, not any other nation.

Dude, I may like colorful cartoon ponies, but I'm not telling people that using one of the most heinous weapons ever developed by humanity is alright, and doing so with glib glee because they're not white people, and a percentage of them don't like the United States. You're like the 9beers of foreign politics. Just go ahead and say it. You're "okay with those ragheads dying". It's okay. It's stage one of your acceptance into being a Freeper-level idiot.

atomicmask: We have gotten ire and hatred because we are constantly stepping in, treating the rest of the planet like it is a new born that may burn itself if it touches the stove

Cute. In reality, for those of us who live in the real world, we've gotten Ire from the Middle East because - like the REST of the world - we were constantly propping up insane, toltarian dictators over there to secure resources and be sure those countries didn't get buddy-buddy with the Soviets/Russian Federation. The US was in the banana republic business for a long time, and it pissed more than a few people off.

atomicmask: That is the back yard of the middle east, and if they cant get motivated to stop it, I do not see why a group of ...


Pretty much, fark them if they arn't american. build a civilization of their own and run it right. they are adults, they do not need planetary baby sitters, and if they do they deserve what they get. So yes, fark them. I wish I could say "I got mine" but I cant, because "mine" is currently in different states of decay. Our bridges are crumbling and unsafe, or grid is 50 years out dated, and our energy plans are all pre-historic by technological standards. We still burn coal while countries that spend less time meddling such as germany and other european nations, have solar powered railways and are nearly 100% solar/wind powered.

We have developing to do on our own, as does syria. They need to realize this isnt 1400AD and we need to realize 1950 is long gone.
2012-12-06 07:39:01 PM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: The allies became aware of the use of Concentration camps and Gas Vans to systematically exterminate the Jews in 1942, well after the United States was in World War II through the cracking of Enigma. In addition, there was nothing that could be done about them at the time, as it was thought that bombing the camps would only increase the slaughter, and many were inside deeply-held areas of Europe under Nazi Control. It was only once the Allies had made significant footholds into Fortress Europe that they could begin to liberate them. But I applaud you on your historical revisionism.


FWIW, my history degree would have had a concentration in genocide, had such a concentration been formally offered at UVA, and it's not unusual for history professors to think we could have (and should have) done more. For the most part, though, even the military historians are rarely particularly good military analysts, and while I can't lay claim to be a particularly exceptional analyst, I can spot a particularly bad one, and so far no historian who asserted we could and should have done something has been able to explain in a convincing manner what that should have been.
2012-12-06 06:27:31 PM
1 votes:

atomicmask: I did not say it was alright. I said I didn't care. Apathy is not approval. Plus I pointed out the absolute hypocrisy turds like you getting bent out of shape over genocide in Syria that has yet to happen, while ignoring Genocide in the Congo (blacks) and somolia (blacks) because it is being done in a method that makes you wet your twilight sparkle underoos. You are a shiat heel and a hypocrite, pure and simple. BLOO BLOO SARIN GAS BLOO BLOO... Yet women being raped to death, men being burnt to death, and assorted murder of entire peoples in africa never once made you turn your head away from a cartoon aimed at 8 year old girls.


The difference is one of these things we can do something about. One of these things we cannot. There are no governments in the Congo sanctioning genocide. Only loose, scattered groups of people who's only allegiance is the warlord who shares their particular flavor of religion. The only way to stop what's going on in the Congo would be to kill anything and everything that moves. Since you seem to relish the thought of people not of your religion/skin color being murdered (Or as you backtrack and try to claim: don't care, despite what you've posted through this thread.) maybe you can pick up a gun and get on that.

Here. Say it with me real slow. Lawless areas of Africa where warlords are killing eachother under no Government, is not the same as the Government of Syria, a dictatorship propped up for YEARS by the United States, suddenly deciding to go full retard and not only condoning, but putting into action a plan to murder it's own people with chemical weapons are not the same thing.

And, as it has been put before, things WERE done to blunt the bloodshed in the Congo. One of these things we can do something about. One of these things we cannot.

people.virginia.edu

atomicmask: PS, you are a grown ass adult watching a cartoon for 8 year old girls, that alone makes anything you say a joke.


people.virginia.edu

By the way, since we're pointing out absurdities here? I'm not the one that claimed the United States had an illegal chemical weapons program, and then said you "knew it was true" because you worked in the "nuclear weapons field". Because, as everyone knows, Nuclear Weapons Techs are the same as Chemical Warfare Specialists in the Military. (Oh, wait. They're not.)

www.airsoftgi.com

atomicmask: Oh I see, intervention as long as it just costs us and we do not benefit, is alright intervention? Again, more hypocrisy. "DON'T INTERFERE WITH US!" "OH GOD US WHY ARN'T YOU INTERFERING!"

Again since you live in a colorful fantasy land of durp and cartoon animals, let me tell you real life shiat.

WE DO NOT GOT THE MOTHA farkIN FUNDS TO PLAY SUPERMAN ANYMORE. WE ARE BROKE. NO GAS IN THE PLANES, NO TREADS ON THE TANKS, NO FOOD IN THE BELLIES OF SOLDIERS.


people.virginia.edu

I won't repeat how much you're wrong since it's already been pointed out in the thread it's not true. But that's okay. You've made a habit of using blatant lies for the past two days. Why stop now?

atomicmask: Yes I would, I would be saying that until germany or japan attacks us (they did) we had no business getting involved. I would be alone in this I bet, along with a great deal of the united states at that time. World war 1 being fresh in the minds of most americans, they did not want to get involved in another bloody battle in Europe. Your perception that america leaped like a tiger the moment hitler invaded poland is some Mickey mouse mentality bullshiat. Smart people, people who have actually went to war and can know what it is like, want to avoid that shiat like the plague. Twats like you, who think this is some cartoon in which we ride in like knights and rescue the innocent people and then get treated to pie and cookies are wrong, dead wrong. It costs lives, it costs money, it sometimes costs generations. If it isn't a threat to us, we should not concern ourselves, period.

p.s. most americans at the time didn't like jews and didn't care what was happening to them. I know this is shocking thing to think post ww2, but a great deal of europe and the united states felt the same about jews. We entered europe to defend allies, not liberate jews. That was a side effect of our war effort.


people.virginia.edu

people.virginia.edu

The allies became aware of the use of Concentration camps and Gas Vans to systematically exterminate the Jews in 1942, well after the United States was in World War II through the cracking of Enigma. In addition, there was nothing that could be done about them at the time, as it was thought that bombing the camps would only increase the slaughter, and many were inside deeply-held areas of Europe under Nazi Control. It was only once the Allies had made significant footholds into Fortress Europe that they could begin to liberate them. But I applaud you on your historical revisionism.
2012-12-06 06:07:24 PM
1 votes:

Mouser: Grand_Moff_Joseph: The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....

Fair point, but the use of chemical or biological weapons should be a red line for the entire world, not just America. No one even thinks of using these kinds of weapons for anything other than genocide, and humanity has a duty to itself to stop such insanity from coming to bear.

Do we?

Seriously, if the entire population of Syria were sucked into a black hole, how would that affect your life in any measurable way?


If you got raped tomorrow by an extremely large and peculiarly swarthy lumberjack it wouldn't affect my life in any measurable either, but alas, I believe in common decency, even to assholes that show none, so I would think it wrong.
2012-12-06 05:44:12 PM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: atomicmask: And for your highly dramatic and uninformed opinion, the syrian government wants to gas muslims, I am the one saying I do not care if they get gassed.

That's nice. Do you have more conspiracy theories for us, there, Robert Oppenheimer?

atomicmask: OH MY POOR FARK REPUTATION? DEAR GOD WHAT WILL I DO WITHOUT BEING INVITED TO THE UNPOPULAR KIDS TABLE ON THE INTERNET. JESUS ALL THE BRONIE CONVENTIONS I WILL MISS.

It is not our problem. that is not our country. Those are not our people. They must sort themselves out, not us. This whole United states chip and dale rescue rangers act has gotten us bankrupt and in decline. I am concerned with american lives, american children, and american soldiers, not syrian. not egyptian, not chinese, not russian, not any other nation.

Dude, I may like colorful cartoon ponies, but I'm not telling people that using one of the most heinous weapons ever developed by humanity is alright, and doing so with glib glee because they're not white people, and a percentage of them don't like the United States. You're like the 9beers of foreign politics. Just go ahead and say it. You're "okay with those ragheads dying". It's okay. It's stage one of your acceptance into being a Freeper-level idiot.

atomicmask: We have gotten ire and hatred because we are constantly stepping in, treating the rest of the planet like it is a new born that may burn itself if it touches the stove

Cute. In reality, for those of us who live in the real world, we've gotten Ire from the Middle East because - like the REST of the world - we were constantly propping up insane, toltarian dictators over there to secure resources and be sure those countries didn't get buddy-buddy with the Soviets/Russian Federation. The US was in the banana republic business for a long time, and it pissed more than a few people off.

atomicmask: That is the back yard of the middle east, and if they cant get motivated to stop it, I do not see why a group of people on the other side ...


See this is where your stupid breaks down..

"Dude, I may like colorful cartoon ponies, but I'm not telling people that using one of the most heinous weapons ever developed by humanity is alright, and doing so with glib glee because they're not white people, and a percentage of them don't like the United States. You're like the 9beers of foreign politics. Just go ahead and say it. You're "okay with those ragheads dying". It's okay. It's stage one of your acceptance into being a Freeper-level idiot."


I did not say it was alright. I said I didn't care. Apathy is not approval. Plus I pointed out the absolute hypocrisy turds like you getting bent out of shape over genocide in Syria that has yet to happen, while ignoring Genocide in the Congo (blacks) and somolia (blacks) because it is being done in a method that makes you wet your twilight sparkle underoos. You are a shiat heel and a hypocrite, pure and simple. BLOO BLOO SARIN GAS BLOO BLOO... Yet women being raped to death, men being burnt to death, and assorted murder of entire peoples in africa never once made you turn your head away from a cartoon aimed at 8 year old girls.

PS, you are a grown ass adult watching a cartoon for 8 year old girls, that alone makes anything you say a joke.

Cute. In reality, for those of us who live in the real world, we've gotten Ire from the Middle East because - like the REST of the world - we were constantly propping up insane, toltarian dictators over there to secure resources and be sure those countries didn't get buddy-buddy with the Soviets/Russian Federation. The US was in the banana republic business for a long time, and it pissed more than a few people off.

Oh I see, intervention as long as it just costs us and we do not benefit, is alright intervention? Again, more hypocrisy. "DON'T INTERFERE WITH US!" "OH GOD US WHY ARN'T YOU INTERFERING!"

Again since you live in a colorful fantasy land of durp and cartoon animals, let me tell you real life shiat.

WE DO NOT GOT THE MOTHA farkIN FUNDS TO PLAY SUPERMAN ANYMORE. WE ARE BROKE. NO GAS IN THE PLANES, NO TREADS ON THE TANKS, NO FOOD IN THE BELLIES OF SOLDIERS.

Our own citizenship does not have medical coverage nor does our department of education have proper funding, and you want us to charge off and fix some other peoples problems? They don't pay taxes, we should not give a shiat. deal with it.

70 years ago, you'd be telling us that it's Germany's back yard, and if France and Poland don't want to get involved, it's not our problem. I mean, gosh. They're jews. Who cares about a bunch of big-nosed savages, am I right, 1940s atomicmask?


Yes I would, I would be saying that until germany or japan attacks us (they did) we had no business getting involved. I would be alone in this I bet, along with a great deal of the united states at that time. World war 1 being fresh in the minds of most americans, they did not want to get involved in another bloody battle in Europe. Your perception that america leaped like a tiger the moment hitler invaded poland is some Mickey mouse mentality bullshiat. Smart people, people who have actually went to war and can know what it is like, want to avoid that shiat like the plague. Twats like you, who think this is some cartoon in which we ride in like knights and rescue the innocent people and then get treated to pie and cookies are wrong, dead wrong. It costs lives, it costs money, it sometimes costs generations. If it isn't a threat to us, we should not concern ourselves, period.

p.s. most americans at the time didn't like jews and didn't care what was happening to them. I know this is shocking thing to think post ww2, but a great deal of europe and the united states felt the same about jews. We entered europe to defend allies, not liberate jews. That was a side effect of our war effort.
2012-12-06 04:19:03 PM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: FutherMucker: Oh, I'm late to the party here, but the stupidity is strong with this one !

BronyMedic You've done a FINE job in keeping atomicmask at bay. Kudos for that ! Isn't it comforting that someone "in the know" will share such information on a public forum? Declassified, or not....Why would some Farknut run off at the mouth like that? I think it might be in your best interest to end all communication with this lunatic !....Just sayin' !  WOW !

I wonder if he realizes that what he's said in this thread is going to follow him wherever he comments from now on here on FARK.

I'd hate to be known as the guy who "wanted to gas all those heathen muslims"


You would, I personally don't give a shiat.

And for your highly dramatic and uninformed opinion, the syrian government wants to gas muslims, I am the one saying I do not care if they get gassed.

let me repeat it, in bold, so you can tell your wonderful friends back in equestria what a big meanie I am..

I do not give two shiats if syrians gas each other, I do not give two shiats if muslims gas each other. Throw the mother farkers a party afterwards for all I careI REALLY DO NOT GIVE A shiat IF BABIES IN THAT BACKWOODS shiat HOLE ARE BOTTLE FED WITH SARIN AND ANTHRAX

OH MY POOR FARK REPUTATION? DEAR GOD WHAT WILL I DO WITHOUT BEING INVITED TO THE UNPOPULAR KIDS TABLE ON THE INTERNET. JESUS ALL THE BRONIE CONVENTIONS I WILL MISS.

It is not our problem. that is not our country. Those are not our people. They must sort themselves out, not us. This whole United states chip and dale rescue rangers act has gotten us bankrupt and in decline. I am concerned with american lives, american children, and american soldiers, not syrian. not egyptian, not chinese, not russian, not any other nation.

We have gotten ire and hatred because we are constantly stepping in, treating the rest of the planet like it is a new born that may burn itself if it touches the stove. The rest of the world hates us because of it..why? They are far older, and have been going at this whole being a nation thing far longer then we have. They know what they are doing, and if they do not wanna fix the problem, then we shouldn't care either. Saudi arabia, rich as fark, does not give two shiats about syrians...why should we? UAE, Qutar, rich...capable of sending troops, but they do not. That is the back yard of the middle east, and if they cant get motivated to stop it, I do not see why a group of people on the other side of the planet has to step in.
2012-12-06 02:55:25 PM
1 votes:

scubamage: vygramul: BronyMedic: Radioactive Ass: That particular image as posted served no purpose other than to shock the reader. Context might have something to do with it.

I was trying to shock the reader?

No.

The purpose it served was to bring home a point that many people in this thread have missed, and some people like atomicmask have celebrated - that this is one of the most heinous things that one human being can do to another. In addition, this wasn't the work of some internet shock site. These were photos that have been in Time magazine, and have been released to the media since the late 1980s. They aren't unknown, or "shock" by any means.

There's a difference between posting a victim of Sarin gas in a thread where people are actually saying it's OK for Assad to gas his own people, and posting freecat.jpg in a Caturday Thread.

Hell. A snuff photo made the main page two days ago, and has been repeatedly linked on FARK since then

In the meantime, a picture I posted with a dead chicken in it was banned because it hurt someone's feelings. ( http://www.bitlogic.com/images/chickenfarkedtodeath.jpg )

[www.kidzone.ws image 332x223]

The rules are kind of unclear. Using the whiner's interpretation, technically the above is included - after all, it's a dead mutilated animal, but I highly doubt I'm going to get banned for posting that photo. So context is actually important. I'm pretty sure the spirit of the rule is that you're not posting pictures of people mangled to bits like the girl who totalled her dad's porsche doing 120+ into a tollbooth or the dude who held an m80 in his mouth. In a post like this those pictures are actually pertinent to the discussion since people seem to be feverishly fapping to the idea of these people being massacred. It's helpful to illustrate what it is people are actually saying we should let happen.


This. I was not best pleased to click on the pic and see a dead child, and wished I could have unseen the image, but it was germane to the topic and brought the subject back in focus. After all, what does it say about me that I clicked the link expecting something irreverent - maybe along the lines of Pinkie Pie using Twilight Sparkle as a gatling gun or Wil E. Coyote getting his Acme bomb on?

It might have been cool to get some warning though. Those are haunting images, and if you are not expecting them, they certainly sit with you.
2012-12-06 11:27:10 AM
1 votes:

MmmmBacon: PunGent: MmmmBacon: Chemical weapons is a line we cannot allow any country to cross, if only for purely Humanitarian reasons. The last thing I want is to see the US involved in yet another conflict, but we cannot stand by and watch Assad employ such weapons on his own people. We cannot allow another slaughter like Hussein inflicted upon the Kurds.

The State Department should simply notify the Syrian government that any use of chemical weapons will an Air War against Syria. We will destroy any Syrian aircraft that leaves the ground, and send cruise missiles to destroy all Syrian military bases, plus command-&-control Government locations. We will openly arm and assist the rebel forces in any way possible, and not stop until the rebels string up Assad in the center of Damascus.

We will not invade with ground forces. but will make sure the Assad regime is utterly unable to defend itself against the rebels.

Sooo...you can guarantee these rebels are in any way better than Assad? He's obviously no prize, but if they had WMDs...would they use them?

Hate to say it, but I only see this as a problem for people downwind...not the US taxpayer, who has quite enough on his plate, thank you very much.

Rest of the world wants us to step in, they can farking well pay the tab.

Up front.

I see your point, and don't want to see us in another war, either. But there comes a point when, if only as a people who claim to respect human rights, we must do something about the wholesale slaughter of innocents.

Nerve gas doesn't just kill rebel forces. It will kill thousands, most of whom just want to survive another day. I'm not saying the rebels are necessarily any better than Assad's people, but they are already about to win this war. Assad is backed into a corner, and if he lashes out with chemical warfare as a last-ditch attempt to hold onto power then we must retaliate.

Up to now, we've stayed out of the situation and left it to Syria and their Arab neighbors to sort out, but if ...


And I see your points, as well. Really.

But , if we intervene, even if 'only' via air interdiction, we'd likely hand the country to the rebels, which WILL make us morally and ethically responsible for THEIR subsequent actions. I don't know enough about them to justify that call.

I'm under no illusions that doing nothing will suck for the civilians caught in the crossfire. However, our past interventions on behalf of Muslim civvies (Kosovo, etc) haven't exactly been well- received. In fact, you could argue we got 9/11 as a result.

There are quite a lot of wealthy, well-armed Muslim countries in the world.

Let THEM save their fellows for a change. If they don't, perhaps the Muslim world will look in the mirror, do something about its current intellectual bankruptcy, and join the rest of the world in the 21st century.
2012-12-06 08:14:23 AM
1 votes:

MmmmBacon: Rwanda and other similar atrocities were a different animal than this, though. Most of those were militias, warlords and lower-tech military forces vs unarmed civilians, and while horrific, a lot more difficult to deal with. In Syria we have a modern military battling against an organized rebel army, that while less equipped than the Syrian army, is managing to actually push the government to the brink of collapse. We can save a lot of civilian lives here if the Syrian government chooses to gas their civilian population, and in my opinion, need to do this.

In my opinion, we should do whatever we can to stop genocide in the world, but we can't be everywhere, obviously. We can't save everyone, but in this case, we can save thousands of lives, and put any future despots on notice that chemical weapons used on civilians will not be tolerated. Ever.


Going in after the fact and making the point that way would probably be our response (if we do respond, which isn't anywhere close to being guaranteed at this point). Overt preemptive actions in another nations ongoing civil war over what might happen would set a very bad precedent After all, if nation X thinks that the US will intervene in their civil strife just because they think that they might do the worst (and in the process will make them lose anyway) then what will stop them from doing it in the first place and taking their chances later on?

I think of it like this. Some people want the death sentence for serial child rapists. We know that the rate of recidivism for that particular crime is very high and so are the chances of being caught because the kid eventually tells someone. The penalty for murder would be the same for that particular crime and dead children can't report anything. The logical conclusion is that such a law would most likely result in more dead kids than it would in less child rapes and that would be unacceptable. That's why we don't make child rape a capital crime.
2012-12-06 06:32:54 AM
1 votes:

erik-k: What do you mean?

Britain knew exactly what would happen because Dresden was revenge for when the Germans firebombed Coventry in the same manner in 1940.


From what I've read they didn't expect the firestorm to be so large. It was an odd mix of weather inversions and wind patterns that made it much worse than was expected at the time. As far as revenge goes the bombing of Coventry was 4-5 years earlier so I doubt (but don't know) that that was a prime motivating factor at that time (and while devastating, the firestorm there wasn't anywhere near as fierce or widespread as it was in Dresden. Which is why Dresden gets mentioned while Coventry rarely does). They exploited that new knowledge about certain weather patterns affecting firestorms in Tokyo a few months later.

The "Accident" that I meant was the unexpected ferocity and rapid spread of the firestorm well beyond where they bombed and not the overall desired result of setting fire to a large area at once. That was no accident.
2012-12-06 03:57:03 AM
1 votes:

doglover: Radioactive Ass: If you're gonna fight then you'd better fight to win and that can mean fighting "Dirty" at times.

No.

There's dirty, and then there's dirty.

That's why chemical weapons are banned. That's why we no longer rape all the women, kill all the men, and steal all the gold when our soldiers take a town. That's why knights in full harness would only fight other knights and not the rag tag peasant troops who had no real armor or training. It's why Dresden and Nanking are loaded names.


Chemical weapons are banned because there are alternatives to them (generally nuclear) that are less hazardous to our own troops.

We don't rape and pillage because we don't want to deal with the negative publicity associated with it and the economic repercussions that go with that as people decide to not trade with us.

Knights in full armor? Are you kidding me? One word... Crusades. Those Moors weren't exactly all armored up and jousting the knights that they faced.

We won't be the one starting the "Dirty" fighting simply because we don't want the bad rep that goes with it but if push came to shove and it was either lose big or go full on medieval on their asses with blowtorches and hard hitting ******* with lead pipes don't think for a minute that we wouldn't do just that. That's just simple human nature and also has been US policy for decades (MAD).

Dresden was an accident because they didn't expect the firestorm phenomena that was the main killer, they simply wanted to take out structures, however Tokyo was not an accident because they had the experience with Dresden (but nobody talks about that one) and from that they discovered that there was a civilian cottage industry making war supplies in peoples homes (all that remained of much of Tokyo was hundreds of drill presses standing in the ashes where homes used to be thereby making all homes in Japan viable targets. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed only because we believed at the time that the alternative was millions of additional people dead (on both sides I might add) instead of a couple of hundred thousand from just one side. There were other concerns as well such as Russia getting a toehold in Japan and China but that's a different piece of the puzzle.

Being able to be ruthless when you need to is a basic human survival skill that has withstood the test of time and that's why Assad and his ilk having chemical weapons or other types of WMD is so dangerous, they are much more likely to feel like they might as well use 'em or lose 'em because of the inherent political instability of their respective countries.
2012-12-06 03:11:25 AM
1 votes:
Chemical weapons is a line we cannot allow any country to cross, if only for purely Humanitarian reasons. The last thing I want is to see the US involved in yet another conflict, but we cannot stand by and watch Assad employ such weapons on his own people. We cannot allow another slaughter like Hussein inflicted upon the Kurds.

The State Department should simply notify the Syrian government that any use of chemical weapons will an Air War against Syria. We will destroy any Syrian aircraft that leaves the ground, and send cruise missiles to destroy all Syrian military bases, plus command-&-control Government locations. We will openly arm and assist the rebel forces in any way possible, and not stop until the rebels string up Assad in the center of Damascus.

We will not invade with ground forces. but will make sure the Assad regime is utterly unable to defend itself against the rebels.
2012-12-06 02:55:59 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic:
Today, I learned that FARK hosts complete monsters who make the homeless guy at Madison and Pauline who shouts about UFOs taking his cats away look sane in comparison.


I've lurked here for a few years, but technically I'm far newer here than you. That said, that dude's pretty far off the deep end, but c'mon, you're not that new here!

BronyMedic:
Wow. They can't even activate the PALs to arm the weapons. That's rich.


Once upon a time, in a magical land somewhere other than Equestria, it was widely rumored that 000..000 was close enough for government work. (Dear Princess Celestia, I've never needed to know if that was ever actually true, and it's probably best for everypony if none of us here finds out if/and/or/how that has changed for at least another 50+ years.)

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Bolebuns: I have lots of contacts in Syria, and I chat with them daily. (The fact that they still have internet blows my mind.). Anyway, interestingly, this morning I got a video that is supposedly of rebels with chemical weapons they "captured" that they claim to be planning on using to kill Alawites. Who knows if this is true. Do you? Exactly. The point being that neither does anybody else, and this "news" can easily be used to forward the agenda of a power. Not that such a thing has ever been done before....cough.

This is the most interesting post in this entire thread. So, of course, it was completely ignored by everyone else.

My hunch would be that this video was a false flag by Assad, because I would assume he would guard his WMD arsenal with everything he's got left. But, as you say, who knows?


From where I sit ("on my plot"), as an armchair diplomat and amateur student of history, I'm thinking trial balloon. Now that it's been floated, the world can quietly and politely remind Assad that it'll only make things worse for him. If he wants to massacre his populace in order to stay in power, he has the sovereign right to do so, but he has to do it the old-fashioned way. Even in countries near 'Nam, there were rules.
2012-12-06 02:47:02 AM
1 votes:
In mid-1939, the formula for the agent was passed to the chemical warfare section of the German Army Weapons Office, which ordered that it be brought into mass production for wartime use. A number of pilot plants were built, and a high-production facility was under construction (but was not finished) by the end of World War II. Estimates for total sarin production by Nazi Germany range from 500 kg to 10 tons.[18] Though sarin, tabun and soman were incorporated into artillery shells, Germany ultimately decided not to use nerve agents against Allied targets.


U.S. Honest John missile warhead cutaway, showing M134 Sarin bomblets (c. 1960)
1950s (early): NATO adopted sarin as a standard chemical weapon, and both the U.S.S.R and the United States produced sarin for military purposes.
1953: 20-year-old Ronald Maddison, a Royal Air Force engineer from Consett, County Durham, died in human testing of sarin at the Porton Down chemical warfare testing facility in Wiltshire. Maddison had been told that he was participating in a test to "cure the common cold." Ten days after his death an inquest was held in secret which returned a verdict of "misadventure". In 2004, the inquest was reopened and, after a 64-day inquest hearing, the jury ruled that Maddison had been unlawfully killed by the "application of a nerve agent in a non-therapeutic experiment."[19]
1956: Regular production of sarin ceased in the United States, though existing stocks of bulk sarin were re-distilled until 1970.
1960s (developing): The US unsuccessfully sought Australian permission to test Sarin and VX gas on 200 "mainly Australian" troops, probably in the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River, Queensland. While this never actually took place, the planning was in advanced stages.[20]
1978: Michael Townley in a sworn declaration indicated that sarin was produced by biochemist Eugenio Berríos for DINA, the secret police of Chile's Pinochet regime. He indicated that it was used to assassinate the state archives custodian Renato León Zenteno and the Army Corporal Manuel Leyton.[21]
1980-1988: Iraq used sarin against Iran during the 1980-88 war. During the 1990-91 Gulf War, Iraq still had large stockpiles available which were found as coalition forces advanced north.[citation needed]
1988: Over the span of two days in March, the ethnic Kurd city of Halabja in northern Iraq (population 70,000) was bombarded with chemical and cluster bombs, which included sarin, in the Halabja poison gas attack. An estimated 5,000 people died almost instantly.[22]
1994: The Japanese religious sect Aum Shinrikyo released an impure form of sarin in Matsumoto, Nagano. (see Matsumoto incident)
1995: Aum Shinrikyo sect released an impure form of sarin in the Tokyo Metro. Thirteen people died. (see Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway)
2004: On May 14, fighters in Iraq detonated a 155 mm shell containing binary precursors for sarin. The shell was designed to mix the chemicals as it spins during flight. The detonated shell released only a small amount of sarin gas, either because the explosion failed to mix the binary agents properly or because the chemicals inside the shell had degraded significantly with age. Two United States soldiers were treated after displaying the early symptoms of exposure to sarin.[23]
2012-12-06 02:42:18 AM
1 votes:

Bolebuns: I have lots of contacts in Syria, and I chat with them daily. (The fact that they still have internet blows my mind.). Anyway, interestingly, this morning I got a video that is supposedly of rebels with chemical weapons they "captured" that they claim to be planning on using to kill Alawites. Who knows if this is true. Do you? Exactly. The point being that neither does anybody else, and this "news" can easily be used to forward the agenda of a power. Not that such a thing has ever been done before....cough.


This is the most interesting post in this entire thread. So, of course, it was completely ignored by everyone else.

My hunch would be that this video was a false flag by Assad, because I would assume he would guard his WMD arsenal with everything he's got left. But, as you say, who knows?
2012-12-06 02:15:32 AM
1 votes:
atomicmask

Yes, we do have a bio-weapons program...

"In February, 2008, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released report GAO-08-366 titled, "Chemical and Biological Defense, DOD and VA Need to Improve Efforts to Identify and Notify Individuals Potentially Exposed during Chemical and Biological Tests." The report stated that tens of thousands of military personnel and civilians may have been exposed to biological and chemical substances through DOD tests. In 2003, the DOD reported it had identified 5,842 military personnel and estimated 350 civilians as being potentially exposed during the testing, known as Project 112.[58]


GAO was pointing out that some of those exposed during the program, that ran from 1962-1973, hadn't received adequate exam/recompense.

I certainly hope the DOD is keeping up on the latest and greatest in biological agents (forewarned is forearmed). Considering that anyone with a couple hundred thousand dollars for pers/equipment can build an ugly bug (recombinant beasties multiplying in plastic bags of nutrient on rocker tables). Not so difficult to build a vaccine for any particular variant, either. Just vaccinate and hit the other guy before they have a chance to build a vaccine.
2012-12-06 02:06:10 AM
1 votes:

Radioactive Ass: BronyMedic: Turkey has around 40 B61 Thermonuclear Free-Fall bombs that the US gifted them during the cold war that they could use to make Syria regret the use of WMDs against them.

I'd like to think Assad isn't that stupid, or suicidal, but....as recent events are going...

WMD for WMD is the usually stated response (MAD) and I don't disagree with that philosophy (I did spend almost a decade on Boomers after all). I don't think that Turkey would lob a weapon back right away and they would probably at a minimum consult with NATO and at least inform Russia before they responded in kind. But like I said earlier it would really depend upon the situation at the time and I don't think that Russia will get involved at that point if Syria (the government) was the one to initiate any exchange of that type. They know what the stakes are concerning getting involved with a NATO country after it's been attacked with WMD's and they aren't that dumb.


Damn dude. You have my respect. Anyone that can stay buttoned up in a tin can for 6 months at a time under the sea is a special person.
2012-12-06 01:58:29 AM
1 votes:

Twilight Farkle: BronyMedic:
Except that the United States and NATO, as a matter of public policy since 1977, have not persued the use of offensive biological or chemical weapons. All research has been defensive in nature, and geared towards protecting responders, civilian populations, and soldiers from their use.


And mad world or not, it's good to know the Herd is everywhere.


Dear Princess Celestia.

Today, I learned that FARK hosts complete monsters who make the homeless guy at Madison and Pauline who shouts about UFOs taking his cats away look sane in comparison.

Your faithful student,

BronyMedic.
2012-12-06 01:55:05 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: BronyMedic: Radioactive Ass: Omahawg: the turks are showing an amazing amount of restraint, particularly for turks

I agree, and if the Turks do at some point decide to ask us to step in as a part of NATO then I'd have a lot less reservations on the matter. If Syria starts lobbing gas shells and dropping chemical bombs on our allies then they will probably be on the receiving end of a lot of pain delivered a megaton or ten at a time (depending upon the situation of course). If they do it internally to themselves then we should do no more than deal with it diplomatically and doing what we can militarily to contain it within Syria (short of crossing their borders).

Turkey has around 40 B61 Thermonuclear Free-Fall bombs that the US gifted them during the cold war that they could use to make Syria regret the use of WMDs against them.

I'd like to think Assad isn't that stupid, or suicidal, but....as recent events are going...

Except Turkey cannot deliver those bombs without U. S. help. Link Additionally, it would take months to make the bombs ready.


Wow. They can't even activate the PALs to arm the weapons. That's rich.
2012-12-06 01:51:58 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: What the fark is a "defensive" chemical weapon? Chemical weapons are not a wall you put up, they have only 1 use, and that is to kill. You spray them on people you want to die, period.


And a defensive weapons program keeps those people it's sprayed on from dying. That's the whole point of it. It also tells you how to mitigate the lasting effects, treat chronic illness, and clean the environment up afterwords.

And, I hate to interrupt your herping-the-derp, but the Project 112 your link refers to occurred in the 1960s. Before the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1973.
2012-12-06 01:48:53 AM
1 votes:

Radioactive Ass: Omahawg: the turks are showing an amazing amount of restraint, particularly for turks

I agree, and if the Turks do at some point decide to ask us to step in as a part of NATO then I'd have a lot less reservations on the matter. If Syria starts lobbing gas shells and dropping chemical bombs on our allies then they will probably be on the receiving end of a lot of pain delivered a megaton or ten at a time (depending upon the situation of course). If they do it internally to themselves then we should do no more than deal with it diplomatically and doing what we can militarily to contain it within Syria (short of crossing their borders).


Turkey has around 40 B61 Thermonuclear Free-Fall bombs that the US gifted them during the cold war that they could use to make Syria regret the use of WMDs against them.

I'd like to think Assad isn't that stupid, or suicidal, but....as recent events are going...
2012-12-06 01:47:32 AM
1 votes:

Omahawg: the turks are showing an amazing amount of restraint, particularly for turks


I agree, and if the Turks do at some point decide to ask us to step in as a part of NATO then I'd have a lot less reservations on the matter. If Syria starts lobbing gas shells and dropping chemical bombs on our allies then they will probably be on the receiving end of a lot of pain delivered a megaton or ten at a time (depending upon the situation of course). If they do it internally to themselves then we should do no more than deal with it diplomatically and doing what we can militarily to contain it within Syria (short of crossing their borders).
2012-12-06 01:44:27 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: What the fark is a "defensive" chemical weapon? Chemical weapons are not a wall you put up, they have only 1 use, and that is to kill. You spray them on people you want to die, period.

Testing of chemicals is effectively weaponizing it, if you are trying to find new ways of making people sick, you are testing weapons..period.


Holy shiat. You're calling me "Stupid and Nieve" on one breath, and then being disingenuous and not even reading what you're citing as a source.

The United States is not manufacturing chemical and biological weapons in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1973. There are NO delivery systems in the US Arsenal right now that could even deliver the existing chemical weapons from the 70s and 60s that are being destroyed now, and they are so unstable they'd kill us before we even used them.

It IS a conspiracy theory that the United States is manufacturing biochemical weapons to use offensively. It IS something you have no proof of, and it IS something you claimed was true because once upon a time, someone trusted an idiot E1 with going to AIT to learn how to service a nuclear warhead because he was able to count to POTATO +1 on the ASVAB, and hadn't gotten busted for smoking pot as a teenager.

atomicmask: 1. Dont give a shiat about your opinion.
2. Not violating us law, I give away no information that is not public already
3. Its not a conspiracy theory, you are just a nieve twat.


1) You're making an appeal to authority, based on the fact that you claim you were a part of the United States nuclear program, that the United States is persuing new offensive chemical or biological weapons.
2) You're then backtracking when being told that making such a claim, were it true, would be a violation of your security clearance agreement and US Law regarding Ex-Nuke Program Members and nondisclosure.
3) You're claiming it's not a conspiracy theory, but you have no evidence other than petty, juvenile insults.
2012-12-06 01:44:03 AM
1 votes:

Marine1:

Problem is, they all do.


No, not every nation is a nice little analogy for the Roman Empire circa 500AD. Despite the fact that they are the laziest farkwits on the planet, the French somehow have found the time to keep their highways in reasonable condition. Germany has a great road and rail system and the Brits don't have it too bad either. Most of northern Europe (inclusive of northern Italy - the south is a different story) seems to be the same.

The one time I made the mistake of trying to walk somewhere in OK City, I saw an interstate underpass with expossed rebar and general disrepair that would be unacceptable in most first-world nations. That combined with the poor condition of the roads in general elswhere leads me to consider driving in the US to be a moderately painful adventure, with a higher than acceptable potential for death due to structural failure.

But, I know, socialism....
2012-12-06 01:39:51 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: BronyMedic: BarkingUnicorn: "...screw you guys, I'm goin' home."

Some Americans are tired of the world's crap and just don't want to deal with it anymore.

Isolationism works real well. Just ask the Soviet Union. Or the United States during the Post-WWI/Pre-WWII era.

Just like appeasement. Peace in our times, Chamberlain said!

Non-intervention is not the same as isolationism, and has nothing to do with appeasement.

Work on your foreign policy vocabulary. Link


The United States, whether people like it or not when they admit it, is a cornerstone of global economy and trade. We feed a substantial amount of the world alone with US foreign aid food and material. The lack of intervention, or non-interventionism, by the United States is not a workable scenario. Things like Iraq, which were pants-on-head retarded to get involved in? Yes. I agree we shouldn't do that. Things like Syria, an ostensibly US ally who is now using nerve agents against their own people? Yeah, we have a responsibility to clean up the mess we made in the first place. People still haven't learned their lesson from the Cold War, apparently, where we propped up dictators just because they were our friends, and not the Soviets. We're still reaping the benefits of that today.
2012-12-06 01:38:33 AM
1 votes:

Omahawg: BarkingUnicorn: Omahawg: BarkingUnicorn: Omahawg: BarkingUnicorn: Omahawg: yes, i'd kill your kids to save my kids too. but i wouldn't gas your kids to death to keep my job.

You'd rather watch your kids starve than gas mine?

somehow I doubt the little assad yowwens will starve to death no matter what happens to their weak-chinned father. the rest of the alawites? i'd head back up to the mountains.

You dodged the question. It's a tough question, I admit.

oh, i thought we were talking about syria?

as long as my kids can put up with eating rabbit and squirrel I doubt they'd starve. I do know how to hunt, fish, and grow vegetables. also which wild plants you can eat.

I think your kids are safe, man

You dodged the question again.

because it's a pointless question?

otherwise, yes, but I'd feel bad about it


Nope, it wasn't pointless.

I'd let Syrian children be gassed to avoid sending my child off to die. But I'd feel bad about it.
2012-12-06 01:34:51 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: BarkingUnicorn: "...screw you guys, I'm goin' home."

Some Americans are tired of the world's crap and just don't want to deal with it anymore.

Isolationism works real well. Just ask the Soviet Union. Or the United States during the Post-WWI/Pre-WWII era.

Just like appeasement. Peace in our times, Chamberlain said!


Chamberlain was trading off other countries sovereignty for a false promise of peace in his. Syria's issues are internal. Their neighbors and key trading partners may want to step in and stop the madness (and probably should) but until Syria starts attacking or making valid threats against other countries (that we do have agreements with) in earnest I don't think that the US should be involved in anything more than trying to diplomatically defuse the situation.
2012-12-06 01:34:36 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic:
Except that the United States and NATO, as a matter of public policy since 1977, have not persued the use of offensive biological or chemical weapons. All research has been defensive in nature, and geared towards protecting responders, civilian populations, and soldiers from their use.


And mad world or not, it's good to know the Herd is everywhere.
2012-12-06 01:32:46 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: Yes, we do have a bio-weapons program...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program

"In February, 2008, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released report GAO-08-366 titled, "Chemical and Biological Defense, DOD and VA Need to Improve Efforts to Identify and Notify Individuals Potentially Exposed during Chemical and Biological Tests." The report stated that tens of thousands of military personnel and civilians may have been exposed to biological and chemical substances through DOD tests. In 2003, the DOD reported it had identified 5,842 military personnel and estimated 350 civilians as being potentially exposed during the testing, known as Project 112.[58]

The GAO scolded the U.S. Department of Defense's (DOD) 2003 decision to stop searching for people affected by the tests was premature.[55] The GAO report also found that the DoD made no effort to inform civilians of exposure, and that the United States Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is failing to use available resources to inform veterans of possible exposure or to determine if they were deceased. After the DoD halted efforts to find those who may have been affected by the tests, veteran health activisits and others identified approximately 600 additional individuals who were potentially exposed during Project 112.[58] Some of the individuals were identified after the GAO reviewed records stored at the Dugway Proving Ground, others were identified by the Institute of Medicine.[59] Many of the newly identified suffer from long term illnesses that may have been caused by the biological or chemical testing.[60]"



Now go watch your cartoon about ponies since you are to stupid and naive for adult conversations.


Clearly, whatever job you had in the "WMD Industry" didn't require critical thinking or reading comprehension skills, did it?

I never said we never had a defensive biochemical weapons program. I said we have not had an OFFENSIVE biochemical weapons program with the intention of weaponizing and utilizing biochemical agents since 1973. In reality, the United States entire stockpile of WMD-BioChems will be destroyed by 2015 at the latest.

You said this:

atomicmask: My screen name is from a time when I worked in the WMD field for the USA. I can tell you, we do not give two shiats about policies. if it comes down to the line, and it is us vs them, its gonna be them, and its gonna be anyway we can. Nuke, bio, or chemical.


There are only three options here:

1) You are blatantly lying about your credentials, or making a useless appeal to authority based on the fact you once worked on a nuclear weapons system in the Military. In which case, I'm pretty sure you're bound by US Law NOT to talk about what you did.
2) You are violating US Law and the agreement of your security clearance by talking about information on the internet to make yourself seem knowledgeable about a topic, and stating publically that you were involved in an illegal Biological or Chemical Warfare program for the US Government for offensive purposes.
3) You are pushing a conspiracy theory using your Government service as a way to make it seem more reasonable.

If you have PROOF, like I said before, about the United States pursuing today an offensive biochemical weapons program, then please, by all means, post it. Otherwise, stop posting conspiracy theories on FARK, and making FLYNAVY look sane.
2012-12-06 01:25:35 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: "...screw you guys, I'm goin' home."

Some Americans are tired of the world's crap and just don't want to deal with it anymore.


Isolationism works real well. Just ask the Soviet Union. Or the United States during the Post-WWI/Pre-WWII era.

Just like appeasement. Peace in our times, Chamberlain said!
2012-12-06 01:23:53 AM
1 votes:
Oh, please. Please atomicmask. Please post something from InfoWars to give me that citation. You're running strong with the stupid now. Please finish full circle. Double down on that stupidity.
2012-12-06 01:22:02 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: Keizer_Ghidorah: atomicmask: I assure you, I do not even care about Israel. Was making a point that the "good guys" are going to do the same thing as the "bad guys" as soon as the dust has settled. Probably even worse, as they will quickly spread those chem weapons to their pals in other overthrown nations for free use.

So now we've gone from "both side bad, so vote Republican" to "all nations are bad, so..."?

Care to quote me where I said vote republican? spoilers: I am not politically aligned.

You can quote me on this, all nations are liars and exist to hold power one way or another.


I was using the quote, not implying anything. But what you're saying resembles it, except with world nations instead of political parties.

So, what should we do? Isolate ourselves from the rest of the world? Form our own country somewhere and attempt to be the very best?
2012-12-06 01:12:32 AM
1 votes:
Welp, now we know why NATO gave the go ahead to park a bunch of patriot missile systems on the Turkish boarder.
2012-12-06 01:12:15 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: Oh you lived in a charmed god damn world. Spend less time daydreaming about equestria.


Sorry. I tend to have standards, and consider myself a human being. In addition, I don't think a weapon so heinous that ANY first world Government would consider using it against even their worst enemy should be used on anyone. Regardless if they don't share your religion, or what Right Wing political derp you like to play here.

atomicmask: 1. No government is against using chemical/nuclear/biological weapons. It is all about illusions. The united states used chem weapons, it will again if it has to. Every silly idea that we are some morale army of golden soldiers is wrong. We drop nukes, we will use gases if needs be, or else we would have a chemical weapons lab or a bio weapons lab. We develop that shiat as a just in case, and if things ever get bad enough, you better believe they will be used without question.


Except that the United States and NATO, as a matter of public policy since 1977, have not persued the use of offensive biological or chemical weapons. All research has been defensive in nature, and geared towards protecting responders, civilian populations, and soldiers from their use. In addition, the United States has actively decommissioned and destroyed it's chemical and biological weapon stockpile - and even it's tactical nuclear stockpile.

Other than that, your argument makes - well, it makes no sense whatsoever.

i306.photobucket.com

atomicmask: Again, syria is not our problem. And yeah im fine with al quada and muslim extremists getting gassed. Make no mistake that when and if they take over, they will gladly turn that shiat on israel if they can.


Wow. Not only are you ok with using one of the most terrible weapons humanity has ever devised on a population who 99.95% of which are trying to escape a war zone and live their lives, but you're putting in blatent, fear-mongering derp with it?



And I think Israel and their 400 nuclear weapons they developed in their country can defend themselves, thank you.
2012-12-06 01:09:06 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: BronyMedic: atomicmask: The part you are forgetting too..

The freedom fighters in Syria? Al quada and the taliban...same group. Another quagmire in the making, because the general tactic to our demise is play on our team america world police delusion, get us into so much debt we cannot afford to function anymore, and then let us collapse on ourselves without having to invade a single inch of our soil.

So they deserve to be gassed?

atomicmask: This, this right here, is exactly why I am 100% unconcerned with them getting gassed.

They deserve to have one of the most atrocious weapons of war humanity has ever devised, and is considered unthinkable to use along the lines of a nuclear weapon, used on them?

Oh you lived in a charmed god damn world. Spend less time daydreaming about equestria.

1. No government is against using chemical/nuclear/biological weapons. It is all about illusions. The united states used chem weapons, it will again if it has to. Every silly idea that we are some morale army of golden soldiers is wrong. We drop nukes, we will use gases if needs be, or else we would have a chemical weapons lab or a bio weapons lab. We develop that shiat as a just in case, and if things ever get bad enough, you better believe they will be used without question.

2. death is death, quit with the "ITS SO HORRIFIC" bullshiat. bleeding out is horrible. Being nuked and dying of radiation poisoning is horrible. Drowning is horrible. DEATH IS HORRIBLE.

Again, syria is not our problem. And yeah im fine with al quada and muslim extremists getting gassed. Make no mistake that when and if they take over, they will gladly turn that shiat on israel if they can.


So Israel is all you care about over there?
2012-12-06 01:04:09 AM
1 votes:

if_i_really_have_to: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

atomicmask: Not our problem.

Let them gas, genocide, and destroy themselves till they are all dead and gone. That is evolution telling human nature that it needs to clean itself out.

Not, our, problem.

[www.martinfrost.ws image 400x240]

'Not our problem,' amirite?

Pretty ironic, given how America did not give the slightest crap about the death camps. You weren't out to save anyone from genocide, it was just a pretty revisionist story so you could think you were awesome despite the fact you spent most of the war looking the other way whilst your corporations did business with the Nazis. Then you had an "oh crap, we let this happen" PR crisis and have been desperately painting yourselves as saviours of the Jewish people since.

Do you not have any idea what Americans themselves thought of Jews in the 1930s and 1940s? THEY HATED THEM. A lot of wealthy Americans (and Britons) were pro-Nazi. A lot of places would not employ Jews, rent to Jews, or allow them inside (e.g. swimming pools). Your government literally refused to help Jews fleeing the Holocaust immigrate to America even though they knew what was happening. Here's a lovely Wikipedia quote for you:

"In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that "Jews are different and should be restricted" and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported. Several surveys taken from 1940 to 1946 found that Jews were seen as a greater threat to the welfare of the United States than any other national, religious, or racial group. [...] Jews also noted the influence of antisemitism when the U.S. State Department opposed efforts to lower immigration barriers to admit Jews and other refugees fleeing the Holocaust and Nazi-occupied Europe. Thus, antisemitism was fairly widespread in the U.S, a sentiment which reduced th ...


odd. after they found belsen my grandfather said they pretty much gave up taking german pow's. just bang bang bang.

granted, the MS St. Louis was a low point in american history
2012-12-06 01:02:54 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: The part you are forgetting too..

The freedom fighters in Syria? Al quada and the taliban...same group. Another quagmire in the making, because the general tactic to our demise is play on our team america world police delusion, get us into so much debt we cannot afford to function anymore, and then let us collapse on ourselves without having to invade a single inch of our soil.


So they deserve to be gassed?

atomicmask: This, this right here, is exactly why I am 100% unconcerned with them getting gassed.


They deserve to have one of the most atrocious weapons of war humanity has ever devised, and is considered unthinkable to use along the lines of a nuclear weapon, used on them?
2012-12-06 01:01:11 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: No, I use it (and the others) as an example of the INSANITY of people blindly believing that their governments have their best interests at heart - regardless of the party.


So, how would you have reacted to the sinking of our ships and the attack on Pearl Harbor if you had been president?
2012-12-06 01:00:40 AM
1 votes:

Radioactive Ass: They went with incendiary weapons instead and killed people en masse by suffocation and burning to death instead, again not exactly the same as dying peacefully in your sleep.


The majority of the payload used by the USAAF and RAF during the bombardment of the German Industrial Areas were conventional iron bombs. In addition, it was practice to carpet bomb at the time only areas which were considered crucial to the German war effort - i.e. war industry and factories.

The USAAF and RAF did the best they could with the technology they had at the time. Even then, they found chemical weapons such as primitive organophosphates and mustard unacceptable. Hell, even Hitler wouldn't use them.
2012-12-06 12:58:57 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Keizer_Ghidorah: scubamage: I'm not a bible person. But I found this interesting.

"The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority."
Revelation 13:2

Russian bears we all know.
The dragon is the chinese "national animal."
The leopard is Iran's national animals.
The lion is often used by Jihadists to describe people making actions in the name of Jihad.

How did they know about bears in that region back then?

Syrian Brown Bear


Huh, what'da'ya know.
2012-12-06 12:58:02 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: I know my history fine, it is you standing on a fake morale high ground claiming we need to be the savior of the middle east again...

Iraq before: They will love us as liberators! Sadam gassed the kurds!
Iraq after: They set roadside bombs, take our money and give it to insurgents to kill us, they blow up schools and kill their own people just to get 1 or 2 of us


Jesus Christ, you're goddamn stupid.

There was no reason to get into a war with Iraq to begin with. The fact you're trying to argue that I support it because I support crippling the ability for a dictator to use weapons of mass destruction against his own people for genocide, right here and now, as opposed to 1987 is just, well, as Chris Rock says, ignorant.

atomicmask: BronyMedic: atomicmask: This, this right here, is exactly why I am 100% unconcerned with them getting gassed. It is the same, farking, movement that we have seen in egypt, lybia, Tripoli, Iraq, and afghanistan. It is the muslim brotherhood/al quada/whatever name they are using to pretend to be a political movement but instead is a facist theocratic movement.

So assad is in the right on this one. He is showing he is not someone to be farked around with like Kadafi. Ever notice how the moment our delightful rebel friends win, they instantly start burning US flags and attacking embassies? Its ONE GOD DAMN POLITICAL MOVEMENT, and it is ANTI WEST.

1938: It's the Jews. Who cares if we gas them.
2012: They're Muslims. Who cares if they gas them.

Who are you, that you don't know your own history.

I know my history fine, it is you standing on a fake morale high ground claiming we need to be the savior of the middle east again...

Iraq before: They will love us as liberators! Sadam gassed the kurds!
Iraq after: They set roadside bombs, take our money and give it to insurgents to kill us, they blow up schools and kill their own people just to get 1 or 2 of us

Afghanistan before: We will build them a democracy and give them freedoms! THey will love us! The taliban is so cruel!
Afghanistan before: they set roadside bombs, take our bribe money, and give it to insurgents to kill us. Blow up schools, kill their own people just to get 1 or 2 of us.

When are you going to realize the middle east does not want or need a savior? When are you going to realize that we are not and will not ever be, the god damn shining beacon superman of the world? It does not matter if they are murdering everyone in sight, the moment we set foot, or drop a single bomb, the great satan has made his presence known and now the real enemy has a scape goat for their suffering. Suddenly Assad is not the enemy, he is the liberator, fighting off the influence of western civilization and he was TOLD by ameri ...


I'm trying to comprehend your stupidity here. First you say this, then:

atomicmask: This, this right here, is exactly why I am 100% unconcerned with them getting gassed.


Please. Do the human race a favor. Kill yourself.
2012-12-06 12:57:21 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: This is Government sanctioned genocide. Nothing less. The idea that modern countries shouldn't act to stop it is sickening. This is something that even the Allies wouldn't have considered using against Nazi Germany, for Christ-sakes. And we nuked the Axis.


Actually it was considered and rejected by the Allies. They went with incendiary weapons instead and killed people en masse by suffocation and burning to death instead, again not exactly the same as dying peacefully in your sleep.
2012-12-06 12:47:59 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: This, this right here, is exactly why I am 100% unconcerned with them getting gassed. It is the same, farking, movement that we have seen in egypt, lybia, Tripoli, Iraq, and afghanistan. It is the muslim brotherhood/al quada/whatever name they are using to pretend to be a political movement but instead is a facist theocratic movement.

So assad is in the right on this one. He is showing he is not someone to be farked around with like Kadafi. Ever notice how the moment our delightful rebel friends win, they instantly start burning US flags and attacking embassies? Its ONE GOD DAMN POLITICAL MOVEMENT, and it is ANTI WEST.


1938: It's the Jews. Who cares if we gas them.
2012: They're Muslims. Who cares if they gas them.

Who are you, that you don't know your own history.
2012-12-06 12:45:37 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Yep. Sometimes dead is better than living.

Estimates of war-related deaths in the Congo range between 678K and 5.4 million. Is that any less horrific because sarin wasn't used there? Link Is it less "unthinkable" because the killing was spread out over time?

I'm afraid I still don't understand why the prospect of Syrian deaths is more intolerable than what we have tolerated in the Congo.


Who should we have fought in the Congo? What national government condoned the genocide that occured there? What government armed them? What Government gave them financial backing to commit their atrocities?

We actually DID do things to curb the violence in the congo. International sanctions on arms, bans on trade of blood diamonds and drugs, etc. There were calls for direct action, that went either unanswered by the first world, or were voted down by Government representatives

The difference is this is the ostensible Government of the Syrian people who are using weapons of mass destruction against their own people, sanctioned BY their government. Weapons which they claimed they were decommissioning and destroying, and which we have independent knowledge they have had for decades. (Ironically, they're so damn incompetent they can't keep from blowing up their own chemical weapons depos.)

This is Government sanctioned genocide. Nothing less. The idea that modern countries shouldn't act to stop it is sickening. This is something that even the Allies wouldn't have considered using against Nazi Germany, for Christ-sakes. And we nuked the Axis.
2012-12-06 12:38:48 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: Yes, it is. Dead is farking dead. How is that particular form of death worse then being burned alive? (congo) Raped and mutilated by machettes? (congo) beheaded? (congo)

Oh this one gives you more heebie jeebies then the rest?


According to this logic, the holocaust wasn't any worse than some guy getting shot down on the corner near your house. Right?

5,500 people were killed by Sarin, Tabun, and Mustard in Halabja in a matter of minutes. Tens of thousands more have died of complications since then.
2012-12-06 12:32:14 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Chemical weapons actually require quite a few rounds to create a reasonable kill zone. Yeah, drop a 155 off Sarin in a basketball stadium, and you can kill the 20,000 people there. Drop it on an apartment complex, you can kill everyone in the 100-unit building. But drop it on the street outside, and most of the people will survive.

Of course, no one who has a 155mm Sarin round will have just the one.


True. And that's the thing. They're not even targeting "rebels" with their attacks. They're going to kill ANYONE in the area to make a statement. If you resist us, you're dead.

They don't care if it's a newborn, or an 89 year old man. It's dead.
2012-12-06 12:24:55 AM
1 votes:

Mr. Eugenides: Nah, got plenty of belladonna nightshade in the back yard. I have all the atropine I'll ever need.


How much Protopam you got? You'll need the oxidizing agent with Organophosphates like Sarin and Tabum.
2012-12-06 12:23:39 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Nope. As others have noted, dead is dead.


Sorry, I beg to differ.

Dead may be dead, but the method of doing so is different. A bullet is rather discriminate. It's only going to kill who you shoot it in the general direction of.

Sarin Gas? It's indiscriminate, and horrific. It's a slow, painful and suffering death, and the survivors will continue to suffer long after the shells are gone, and the war has ended. It doesn't care about men, women, or children. Infants or the elderly. It doesn't care if you're involved in the conflict, or just trying to flee the area.

It's murder on a scale unthinkable. A single shell can kill thousands of people in a civilian area.



4.bp.blogspot.com

But dead is dead, right?
2012-12-06 12:18:58 AM
1 votes:

debug: Just saying, we don't care enough to go in and do anything in the Congo, so why should we care enough to go in and do anything in Syria?

Why is Syria somehow more important than the Congo that we feel the need to intervene there? I don't see how that's an idioc question.


Because warlords in the Congo were not using weapons which could decimate entire cities, and which most modern, civilized countries have not even considered using since the end of World War I because of the heinousness of their effects?
2012-12-06 12:14:58 AM
1 votes:

meyerkev: We do #1, leave, and watch Syria devolve into a massive civil war with the entire region piling on to try and end up with their guy in charge.


i.imgur.com

Syria is surrounded by allies of the U.S: Iraq, Jordan, Israel, Turkey and Lebanon. if anything, eliminated Assad is probably the only way to ever restabilize Lebanon---Syria's been piling on them and essentially using them as a proxy state against Israel for decades. The issue is Russia and they are talking to Syria right now--probably telling them that if they use chemical weapons they'll be on their own. No one will attack a Russian base anyway.
2012-12-06 12:14:43 AM
1 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Mentat: Sorry if we're a little more nuanced than "DUR SADDAM HUSSEIN DONE BLOWED UP THEM BUILDINGS WAR BABY AMERICA FARK YEAH WOOOO!"

Is that a direct quotation from a conservative politician or commentator? If so, could you please tell me which one? If not, why are you grotesquely caricaturing your opponents' arguments?

/the Mentats aren't enough, you also need +3 INT


images4.wikia.nocookie.net

No, no, Mentats are +5 Intelligence and +5 Perception, but 5% chance of addiction.
2012-12-06 12:09:32 AM
1 votes:

atomicmask: Really? I live in farm land in the middle of no where, I will live without my Audi's and foreign cars.


Most farmers and ranchers have an excellent understanding of foreign markets and their importance. They also understand the implications of the inability to get their product to market. There is a reason AG-ED course cover international business. Farmers and Ranchers tend not to be isolationists.
2012-12-06 12:08:52 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: If they actually use Sarin gas, the effects are not going to be able to be hidden. Nerve gasses kill on an industrial scale, and are obvious in the way they do so.


Turkey and Jordan will send the signals. There are already postwar coordinators in Jordan, and I'm sure Erdowan and Obama have an agreement in place on how an emergency response will be conducted. There won't be a way to keep the effects of chemical weapons far enough from Turkey's borders as it is.
2012-12-06 12:07:08 AM
1 votes:

Omahawg: atomic-age: MelGoesOnTour: Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....

Is the bear hairy? Is the bear scary?

YES

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x299]

nothing about this will end well. not for us, not for mr. weak chin assad, not for no one nowhere, no sirree.

 

Yes, he was a hairy bear; he was a scary bear. We beat a hasty retreat from his lair.
2012-12-06 12:02:57 AM
1 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: Keizer_Ghidorah: Smeggy Smurf: xaveth: At this rate, our Nobel Peace Prize winning President will be the longest serving war time President.

War is peace.

Is there any reason the NPP keeps being brought up?

It used to mean something before they started giving it to terrorists and war criminals. Fartbongo had to earn his war criminal status after he got it which makes him even more despotic than the others.


What did he do to be labeled a war criminal? And no, taking out a former American who publicly denounced his citizenship and fled the country to join his new friends and help them cause death and terror doesn't count.
2012-12-06 12:01:44 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: costermonger: Just what the fark *do* you Americans spend that defence budget on if the USN and USAF don't have a sufficient supply of jet fuel and munitions to conduct an "oh no you don't" strike without tipping the entire nation into bankruptcy?

Toilet seats, mainly.

We seem to be divided into two camps tonight.

1. We must stop the slaughter of innocents and we can do it quickly and cheaply.

2. We're going to get dragged into another 10-year trillion dollar ground war and for what?

I'd like to see the U. S. zip in, destroy the sarin threat, and get out. No hanging around to "advise" rebels or rebuild the rubble.


This.
2012-12-05 11:54:30 PM
1 votes:

Bauer: like the united states does everyday?


The US uses Organophosphate Chemical Weapons against it's own citizens in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1977?

Shocking. Someone call Anderson Cooper. This needs to be out there!

/oh, wait. They don't. Idiot.
2012-12-05 11:52:50 PM
1 votes:
If he crosses the line, Billy Jay and H-Rod will have a chat to Vlad, Cool Black Dude will get the new chinese guy on the phone and give them a chance to either abstain or get in on the omnishambles that will be coming Assad's way.

Ground war: Turkish and other NATO forces, friends-with-benifits providing special forces
Air War: NATO and friends (maybe the Saudi's, Jordan, Egypt etc.)

Post Fall:
Peacekeeping: Primarily Turkey in the north, Jordan and Egypt in the south and west. Closer to what happend in Timor than Iraq or Afghanistan. Seriously, you yanks are farking hopeless at nation building. No wonder your own country is falling to bits. Please, stay out of it. When we need megadeath, we'll call you.

Just as long as Iran decides to stay the @#$% out and Israel doesn't do anything stupid, everything should be coming up Millhouse.

/Couple of big if's
2012-12-05 11:50:34 PM
1 votes:

davidphogan: Keizer_Ghidorah: If the Bible had been written elsewhere, the Beast would have the body of a jaguar, the tail of a caiman, and the head of a howler monkey. Or the body of a walrus, the legs of a moose, and a mouth like an orca.

/imagine if instead of a serpent, it was a manatee who tempted Eve

I just knew that narwhals had an evil side.


Well, look at them. Pretending to be unicorns and shiat with that spiral horn thing.
2012-12-05 11:46:26 PM
1 votes:

scubamage: I'm not a bible person. But I found this interesting.

"The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority."
Revelation 13:2

Russian bears we all know.
The dragon is the chinese "national animal."
The leopard is Iran's national animals.
The lion is often used by Jihadists to describe people making actions in the name of Jihad.


How did they know about bears in that region back then?

If the Bible had been written elsewhere, the Beast would have the body of a jaguar, the tail of a caiman, and the head of a howler monkey. Or the body of a walrus, the legs of a moose, and a mouth like an orca.

/imagine if instead of a serpent, it was a manatee who tempted Eve
2012-12-05 11:39:04 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: atomicmask: Mentat: atomicmask: Nobody. It should be nobody.

Fine. We'll just pull our Navy back to our coasts and let the sea lanes police themselves.

Sounds good

I doubt you would still feel that way after the third day.


Really? I live in farm land in the middle of no where, I will live without my Audi's and foreign cars.
2012-12-05 11:33:48 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: You know, you really have to wonder... at what point will the Middle East eventually cry "Uncle!" ? It's not unprecedented. Europe was more or less a bloodbath from the collapse of the Roman Empire (if the Church hadn't been around, it might have been even worse, but that's another discussion) up until 1945. They were always ready for war. It took a war that involved mechanized genocide and 30 million deaths for them to stop. Eventually, the destruction will simply be too much for even the most well-prepared sections of their society to bear... but what will it take? Nuclear detonations? Decade-long mechanized warfare? What's the trigger for surrender?


Europe (and Japan for that matter) didn't so much cry uncle as it did have "Uncle" forced upon them by the major players from the outside (the United States and Russia). Britain had some influence as did France in the form of the UN Security Council but most of the events were out of their hands outside of becoming staging points during the Cold War. The Cold War (along with the Marshall Plan) was probably the main reason that Europe didn't fall back into chaos. By having just two sides (NATO and Warsaw Pact) it was easier to tell who was on whose side. Pre-WWII it was multiple sides all looking out for just their own best interests and there's no reason to think that without any outside influence that it wouldn't have happened again.

If the US had simply pulled out of Europe and left it to its own means starting in May of 1945 (like it did in 1918) there probably would've been a WWIII back in the 50's or 60's. After a generation or three of peace and prosperity being essentially forced upon them they wised up and realized that they had it good now and didn't want to see that go away. I'm afraid that that will be the only way that the Middle East will ever sort itself out. I'm not saying or even suggesting that the US be the one to force stability on the region but someone will eventually need to step up to the plate and give it a try or the region will eventually burn itself to the ground and stability will come from nobody being left alive to fight each other.
2012-12-05 11:32:38 PM
1 votes:

xaks: This IS no 'right answer' for this mess, there never has been, and there likely won't be. Someone is going to have to step up and deal with it, or it will simply continue as it has for a long damned time.


After we pretty well wiped out Europe and Japan, and at the same time Russia and China got the shiat kicked out of their respective lands, it seemed like actual fighting ended. I mean, Korea and Vietnam, but neither of those have had a good war since we got the whole awesome killing machine thing down.

Maybe the Bible is onto something about a second coming of Jesus after the entire middle east gets blown up. Not in a literal sense, but at that point we might finally be on a path to stop blowing each other up so much.

After that, we just need to solve the War On Drugs and we can probably retard mass violence to college campuses and movie theaters.

/only half-joking
2012-12-05 11:21:23 PM
1 votes:
FTFA: The Syrian military is prepared to use chemical weapons against its own people and is awaiting final orders from President Bashar Assad, U.S. officials told NBC News on Wednesday.

If this is true, Assad has just signed his own death warrant.
2012-12-05 11:20:53 PM
1 votes:

Ehh: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.

I'm a peacenik, but I'm all for the ass-kicking of despots. If Assad uses chemical weapons, I'm OK with the big-time raid. I wonder if we know where he is.

/fark Russia



Is that like having a black friend?
2012-12-05 11:17:59 PM
1 votes:

Omahawg: Marine1: Radioactive Ass: And this is why we shouldn't let nations run by crazy people attempt to acquire WMD's. If this situation blows up (not that I want that to happen) the silver lining might be a lot more international pressure on other (politically and\or mentally) unstable countries to stay away from the development or stockpiling of WMD's or the rest of the world might do a bit of preventative maintenance on their facilities. And by preventative maintenance I mean destroy them completely before it becomes a problem.

Doubtful.

You know, you really have to wonder... at what point will the Middle East eventually cry "Uncle!" ? It's not unprecedented. Europe was more or less a bloodbath from the collapse of the Roman Empire (if the Church hadn't been around, it might have been even worse, but that's another discussion) up until 1945. They were always ready for war. It took a war that involved mechanized genocide and 30 million deaths for them to stop. Eventually, the destruction will simply be too much for even the most well-prepared sections of their society to bear... but what will it take? Nuclear detonations? Decade-long mechanized warfare? What's the trigger for surrender?

[www.ldolphin.org image 644x315]

lol


I think even the ol' J-Man would probably pass on going through there.

"That place has really gone down hill since I left."- 2nd Lebowski 4:20
2012-12-05 11:12:10 PM
1 votes:

Radioactive Ass: And this is why we shouldn't let nations run by crazy people attempt to acquire WMD's. If this situation blows up (not that I want that to happen) the silver lining might be a lot more international pressure on other (politically and\or mentally) unstable countries to stay away from the development or stockpiling of WMD's or the rest of the world might do a bit of preventative maintenance on their facilities. And by preventative maintenance I mean destroy them completely before it becomes a problem.


Doubtful.

You know, you really have to wonder... at what point will the Middle East eventually cry "Uncle!" ? It's not unprecedented. Europe was more or less a bloodbath from the collapse of the Roman Empire (if the Church hadn't been around, it might have been even worse, but that's another discussion) up until 1945. They were always ready for war. It took a war that involved mechanized genocide and 30 million deaths for them to stop. Eventually, the destruction will simply be too much for even the most well-prepared sections of their society to bear... but what will it take? Nuclear detonations? Decade-long mechanized warfare? What's the trigger for surrender?
2012-12-05 11:06:57 PM
1 votes:

Gdalescrboz: kendelrio: Honestly, I don't give a fark which side of the political spectrum you land on..... Using Sarin gas is farking HORRIFIC!!! The agony involved in the dying is farking horrible! We aren't talking about soldiers who are (or should be) prepared to fight in a chemical environment. We are talking about civilians; men, women and children.

It making you feel good is not a reason to go to war, especially if you aren't the one who is going to fight it.


Who said anything about me feeling good? I'm talking about civilians being murdered. Besides, I fought my war. Desert Storm 1 The Phantom Menace....


/0811
//A 1/12
2012-12-05 11:03:11 PM
1 votes:
And this is why we shouldn't let nations run by crazy people attempt to acquire WMD's. If this situation blows up (not that I want that to happen) the silver lining might be a lot more international pressure on other (politically and\or mentally) unstable countries to stay away from the development or stockpiling of WMD's or the rest of the world might do a bit of preventative maintenance on their facilities. And by preventative maintenance I mean destroy them completely before it becomes a problem.
2012-12-05 10:58:16 PM
1 votes:
read
https://www.facebook.com/Reaping/posts/229337493752962

note the date,
then read

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/15706380-syria-loads-ch e mical-weapons-into-bombs-military-awaits-assads-order?lite
2012-12-05 10:51:32 PM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: How many Arab countries do we need to bomb until we get one for free?


Probably already been addressed, but Syria isn't Arabic. They are Persian, like Iran. Best to just let Turkey do its thing with our support. Less outrage that way at one Muslim country taking on two others. And yeah, I am expecting Iran to get into this mess too. I just hope Turkey has recieved proper anti-pixel training. And chemical warfare training.
2012-12-05 10:49:23 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: Really, how could the Middle East get any worse if we took, say, Stephen Harper and told everyone in Syria, "This man is now in charge."?


backalleysoapbox.files.wordpress.com 

"I have a kitten and I'm prepared to use it."
2012-12-05 10:40:38 PM
1 votes:
Well I just logged on the white house website and wrote a letter, I think I'll stay up and wait for his personal response:

Please Mr. President, don't allow the Syrian regime to use chemical weapons against its own people.

Like many Americans, I am tired of war, and of needlessly interventionist foreign policy, but passivity in the face of unspeakable evil is not nobility.

This must be stopped, acting in a broad coalition is preferable, but any eventuality that allows the regime to carry out such an act is unacceptable.

Thank you:
xxxxx xxxxxxx
2012-12-05 10:39:45 PM
1 votes:
I also love the claims of 'Saddam's WMD', as if Syria wouldn't have had a chemical weapons program of its own.
2012-12-05 10:39:27 PM
1 votes:
There's a lot of desperation in the air. Also a lot of crazy. People acting in very bad judgement all over the place. I would like to count on people using their humanity. Recent history has shown no evidence of humane treatment. Very bad mix.
2012-12-05 10:32:51 PM
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: I also did not buy a house with my potential lottery winnings.


We get it. Sociopaths gonna sociopath.
2012-12-05 10:28:30 PM
1 votes:
So we care about possible genocide in Syria, but we don't care about actual genocide that's happening in Congo?

Ok then.
2012-12-05 10:24:50 PM
1 votes:

RayD8: US takes out leader and in his place, end up with a dictator of whom they approve.


You might want to check with the Department of State on what's going on in Egypt.
2012-12-05 10:24:06 PM
1 votes:

erik-k: Keizer_Ghidorah: How would you have handled those if you were president for either of them? Would you have been ready to sacrifice your allies in the name of "Leave me out of this" and feeling good about not fighting?

They were called Isolationists and they were happy to let Europeans kill each other as long as they left the US and our on-again off-again flirtation with imperialism/colonialism in the western hemisphere alone.

It would've worked for as long as the USA could be its own self-contained technocratic state, but the existence of large-scale trade ultimately made it a dead end idea. That and the fact that the US hit peak oil not too long after WWII.


And living by the "If I close my eyes, the problem goes away" mentality never works.
2012-12-05 10:23:53 PM
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: Oh good, we win the argument.

So uhh, ring up obama and tell him to pump the gas back out of the bombers, k?


Ducking behind claims of Godwin? Surrender accepted. Nice of you to admit you lack any soul to be troubled by potential mass deaths.
2012-12-05 10:19:56 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


*sigh* It...actually kind of is ohdearlordIcan'tbelieveIjustsaidthat. But blatantly violating at least the spirit of the Geneva Convention? Yeah, that's everyone's business.

/Goddamnitsomuchonafarkingstick, Syria.
2012-12-05 10:19:30 PM
1 votes:

firefly212: Amos Quito: RealAmericanHero: Amos Quito: You assume that the information we have been given is accurate.

I assume that there are games afoot, and remain VERY skeptical.

I believe in the sanity of a Democrat White House a lot more than a Republican White House. Most Republican's are certifiably nuts, so I can't really put their failures on anyone else.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x333]

Woodrow Wilson - Democrat. Got us into WWI

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x259]

FDR - Democrat - got us into WWII

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x281]

Harry Truman, Democrat. Got us into the Korean War and the start of the Cold War

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x269]

JFK, Democrat. Really got the ball rolling in Vietnam

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x293]

LBJ, Democrat - drastically escalated the Vietnam war

Sorry but I don't share your enthusiasm for white house Democrats.

/Or Republicans, for that matter
//Tweedle (D)
///Tweedle (R)

Did you seriously use US involvement in world war 2 to make a case against the sanity of Democrats when it comes to war?


He's a Libertarian, both sides are bad no matter what.
2012-12-05 10:04:58 PM
1 votes:

Omahawg: I swear some of you never watched the tee vee news during the last quarter of the 20th century. there hasn't been a time in my life when bad shiat was going down somewhere on this planet. [snip image] mr. pot is saying 'what's new under the sun, dawg?'


The history of Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge in the mid- 1970s really has to be read to believed... whole cities being emptied of their inhabitants to appease the resentments of Marxist peasants; people being shot for having soft hands, talking too intelligently, or wearing glasses; children being trained as soldiers and encouraged to rat out their parents; and as much as a third of the population ending up dead in the end... it's a useful corrective for those who believe that Communism or some kind of hard- left centralized society is sure to work just great the next time -- or, for that matter, even just a corrective to those who believe that human beings are naturally good.
2012-12-05 10:03:34 PM
1 votes:

Omahawg: most obvious? israeli air strike in 5-4-3-2......



Yeah, they're paranoid and trigger happy.

And we'd definitely give them a pass - the rest of the world? Who knows.


/Betting that the Mossad is the source of this disinformation
2012-12-05 10:02:51 PM
1 votes:
I'm guessing Susan Rice is perfectly happy not being the Secretary of State, and that Hillary wishes she could send a text saying, "Dude, I'm out."
2012-12-05 09:56:29 PM
1 votes:

Evil High Priest: Ogre840: DblDad: If true, then this is a nightmare - but I want to see a source cited other than "U.S. officials." I can't find any mention of this on the BBC, other British sites, Al Jazeera English, or other Middle Eastern news sites. The only other mention outside of the US media was from the Jerusalem Post. I'd think that if weapons had been loaded then the world media would be all over this.

Check out the side bar "Live Blog Syria"
Link

It's on Al Jazeera.

No it's not. Here's the latest entry:

Syria about 7 hours ago
Russia and Turkey are set to discuss new ideas on Syria, Kremlin says


It helps if you use that little wheel on your mouse and scroll down:

Syria a day ago
"The NATO ministers unanimously expressed grave concern about reports ... of chemical weapons."
2012-12-05 09:51:35 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Marine1: MorrisBird: My stomach hurts. Damn, we've turned this world into a cesspool.

Well, who's we?

0bama and Clinton.
Great foreign policy in action.


LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!!

What do you want, more of Bush Jr's style? More pointless wars on a credit card that farks up America even further? Are you suggesting that America makes a police state of every country in the Middle East? How about some nukes and a glass parking lot, sound good to you?

Tell us, O Wise One, what would you want Obama and the libs to do? How would you handle the Middle East?
2012-12-05 09:48:50 PM
1 votes:

Linkster: Oznog: TFA: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs. 

OK, I had to look this up. I know what "load" means, but WTF is "lock"??

Apparently the term is made up. Well, it's not a range command and "lock and load" doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular... even loading, apparently.

LOCK refers to locking a magazine, LOAD refers to injecting a round into the breach, Try to keep the fark up!

Also, it is well documented that Saddam's WMD Were moved to Syria, along with a lot of other shiat.

What part of Treaties and Commitments to Turkey, Jordan, Israel, etc. NOT a US Problem? All you "Foriegn Policy" Geeks seem to forget shiat before you where born. Oil has nothing to do with it.

NATO is gonna play with their beard for a week when Israel and the US is ready and prepared to drop this shiat at the field and not let it get to 100K dead, have to Boots on the ground crap.


Are you always an asshole or have you just had a bad day?
2012-12-05 09:42:33 PM
1 votes:

way south: bim1154: The U.S. won't do shiat if they start using that crap other than wording strong letters of disapproval.

It won't be in our hands.
We've got a NATO member next door and a half a dozen allies less than a stones throw from this mess. If Assad starts lobbing gas, everyone downwind is gonna get awfully angry and demand something be done. Even if it means WWIII.

Russia is going to have to wear her big girl britches and either put Syria in its place or disown the situation. They won't back the use of chemical weapons.
They need to leash this guy, ASAP.


If the report is true, I'd say this is a pretty good sign that Russia has lost all control over their little client state at this point.
2012-12-05 09:42:01 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Marine1: MorrisBird: My stomach hurts. Damn, we've turned this world into a cesspool.

Well, who's we?

0bama and Clinton.
Great foreign policy in action.


Ahh you. Defective genetics in action.

Stop pretending that you aren't sitting there with a giant erection at the exciting prospect of genocide, so you can biatch about Obama. You will probably cum when the pictures start rolling in, sick fark.
2012-12-05 09:41:44 PM
1 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Alawites are kinda sorta Muslim, perhaps in the same way that Mormons are kinda sorta Christian.


heh nice way to put it
2012-12-05 09:40:28 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!



Actually it is,
We helped instigated it. We armed the rebels, and than their uprisings have led to a possible future of them getting gassed.

CBS NEWS/ August 1, 2012, 10:30 PM
Report: Obama authorizes covert Syrian rebel aid
Earlier this year, President Obama signed an intelligence "finding" authorizing U.S. intelligence agencies to support the opposition in Syria, Reuters reports.

The "finding" is largely a bureaucratic mechanism, and it has long been reported that the CIA is at least aiding in the flow of money and weapons from Saudi Arabia and Qatar to the opposition inside Syria. In June, CBS News correspondent David Martin reported the CIA has been advising other countries about which Syrian rebel groups are deserving of aid.

Additionally, the CIA is known to have been operating a small number of offices in Turkey, but none so far in Syria itself.
The Arab Spring Sources tell CBS News that the direction of U.S. involvement in Syria looks increasingly to be through coordination with Turkey.

That said, CBS News correspondent Margaret Brennan reports the U.S. Treasury authorized a private U.S. group to provide direct financing to the Free Syrian Army. Civilians can help buy Syrian rebels guns or whatever they need, thus working around U.S. policy, which is to avoid providing lethal aid to the opposition. 
2012-12-05 09:39:27 PM
1 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: erik-k: In short, the British successfully tricked an appreciable fraction of earth's entire surface into a neverending flamewar with itself and escaped virtually unscathed by comparison, making the Royal Family probably the most enormously successful trolls of all time.

To say this is to assume that the Africans have no moral agency of their own -- i.e. that if Africans have only to be provoked in a certain way to automatically cause them to commit genocide against each other, through no fault of their own. If the map of the United States were to be rejiggered tomorrow by an outside power so that there were only 13 irregularly- shaped states instead of the current 57 (sic) would you Americans all suddenly go apesh*t and start killing each other? I mean Texans might, but everyone else? Colonialism gets the blame for all of Africa's and Middle East's problems, but ethnic strife has raged in these regions since time immemorial and the excuse is wearing a bit thin.


Give me complete control to draw political lines on the map and I bet you I could start a pan-European war, or at least cause massive social unrest, within 20 years.

Take people who historially don't like each other, then draw the lines so half of them benefit and the other half lose, do so without regard for historical demarcations or natural boundaries, and in a place where life is cheap... and you're going to have wars.

I didn't murder her, your honor, I just gave someone with a history of violence guns and egged him on by ranting about how horrible she was and told him where she lived.
2012-12-05 09:35:57 PM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Anyone hear what the alleged SOURCE of this "intelligence" is?


An anonymous US official (so far). The story seems to have started here.
2012-12-05 09:34:59 PM
1 votes:

BigBurrito: mr lawson: Mentat: I think we've tried that a few dozen times already. Doesn't seem to help.

Maybe not, but it doesn't cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of US lives for the same results.


WW II had no costs in US dollars and US lives? We sat out of it while Europe burned because it was "not our problem"?

Syria has been going at it for awhile now. The British should have intervened, but I suppose they sit on their hands because, well simply Blair and his association with the war drumming for Iraq.

The use of Chemical Weapons will lead to a greater escalation in Syria and the region around it. We can try and prevent that escalation or we can sit back say "not our problem" and be sucked into a much larger problem later on.

This is a truly worrisome problem. It can not be underestimated. This is why SS Clinton is warning Asssad of the implications of a decision to use these weapons. If he does use them, expect to see a very large retaliation, most likely by the US, possibly NATO, or maybe the British, if they ever find their balls again.

Ah look at this Britian is stepping up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9721126/Br i tain-has-directly-warned-Assad-of-immediate-response-if-Syria-uses-che mical-weapons.html

Good.


Assad may be thinking he's about to be overrun. If he doesn't escalate to using these weapons he loses to the rebels.

If he uses these weapons then western powers may attack his military tilting the balance of power into the rebels hands.

He's in a low probability of success position but as of now I think he'll still use them as a last resort and then the onus is on the west to respond.
2012-12-05 09:32:49 PM
1 votes:

Oznog: TFA: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs. 

OK, I had to look this up. I know what "load" means, but WTF is "lock"??

Apparently the term is made up. Well, it's not a range command and "lock and load" doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular... even loading, apparently.


Load and lock, as it relates to weaponry is used for larger weapons such as cannons (and in my case torpedo tubes) where after you load the weapon into its tube you lock the breech door (usually via interlocks) so there aren't any accidents. I assume that it simply carried over to smaller automatic weapons where you load a magazine and then operated whatever mechanism on that type of weapon to put the round from the magazine into the breech of the weapon and then engage any safeties on the weapon..
2012-12-05 09:29:41 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone

Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.


yeah some major forces from EU and the US will be making a visit soon I do believe.
2012-12-05 09:29:00 PM
1 votes:

kendelrio: Honestly, I don't give a fark which side of the political spectrum you land on..... Using Sarin gas is farking HORRIFIC!!! The agony involved in the dying is farking horrible! We aren't talking about soldiers who are (or should be) prepared to fight in a chemical environment. We are talking about civilians; men, women and children.


I agree it's going to be bloody awful -- the situation already is bloody awful with only the conventional weapons being used so far. I don't think any of us can imagine what it must be like to see our family, friends and neighbours being destroyed with powerful weapons. It's crazy.

That being said -- it's not the "white man's burden" to save every country in the world. There's a noble sentiment behind what you say, but as usual the devil is in the details and for pragmatic reasons alone we should stay well the hell away from anything to do with the Middle East (and yes, this includes you too, Israel -- even if you're not quite so bad as the rest).
2012-12-05 09:27:00 PM
1 votes:

atomic-age: Oznog: Linkster: Oznog: TFA: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs. 

OK, I had to look this up. I know what "load" means, but WTF is "lock"??

Apparently the term is made up. Well, it's not a range command and "lock and load" doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular... even loading, apparently.

LOCK refers to locking a magazine, LOAD refers to injecting a round into the breach, Try to keep the fark up! 

Well the phrase is said to originate around the M1 Garand. If you put the clip in but didn't chamber a round, wouldn't you still call it "loaded"? I'd say putting a clip into it makes it pretty darn "loaded", terminology-wise. It's not like you really need to instruct people to put a clip in the weapon before going into combat... at least I hope not.

My dad was drafted for WWII. He said they had a drill instructor who could not pronounce the letter 'L' and instead exhorted them to "Rock and road!"


LOCK the breach open AND LOAD the ammunition.

/freakin idiots
//dunno if I just fed the troll.
2012-12-05 09:26:56 PM
1 votes:

BigBooper: /if he survives he would be a hero to many Muslims
//and be welcome in exile in many Islamic nations



he would not survive Israel's retaliation

and if he did go into exile Israel's hunt would be more like Obama's hunt for Osama and less like Dubya's "hunt" for Osama
2012-12-05 09:25:13 PM
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: Obama believes in diplomacy. Just ask a Libyan!


Obama didn't order military intervention in Libya until it became clear that Gaddafi was going to inflict mass casualties against civilians.
2012-12-05 09:23:05 PM
1 votes:

johnnyrocket: Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.


I think it's some other member of the community's turn. We must have rolled doubles 10 times in a row
2012-12-05 09:22:57 PM
1 votes:

Tumunga: WOOO-HOOOOO, The Libbies are in charge now!! It's okay! The Obama controls the military now!! It's okay to invade countries now!! Let's go bomb the shiat out of Syria, and turn it into a pile of glass!!

Hypocritical libtards.

/against invading any country without provication.


Sorry if we're a little more nuanced than "DUR SADDAM HUSSEIN DONE BLOWED UP THEM BUILDINGS WAR BABY AMERICA FARK YEAH WOOOO!"
2012-12-05 09:22:31 PM
1 votes:

Linkster: Popcorn Johnny: Reports are the the USS Eisenhower is sitting of the coast of Syria, ready to strike.

TROLL OR MORON, I pick the Later!


Still waiting for an answer here, did you think that the USS Eisenhower had been decommissioned or that Syria was landlocked? It's okay to admit that you're wrong.
2012-12-05 09:22:26 PM
1 votes:
Honestly, I don't give a fark which side of the political spectrum you land on..... Using Sarin gas is farking HORRIFIC!!! The agony involved in the dying is farking horrible!
We aren't talking about soldiers who are (or should be) prepared to fight in a chemical environment. We are talking about civilians; men, women and children.
Any "leader" who resorts to this is a psychopath who needs to be taken out real quick fast and in a hurry!

/think of the children!
2012-12-05 09:22:26 PM
1 votes:

Tumunga: GAT_00: Grand_Moff_Joseph: GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone

Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.

If he's doing this, he's already close to an ass kicking. This is a sign of desperation. The people should free themselves, we just make sure they can.

WOOO-HOOOOO, The Libbies are in charge now!! It's okay! The Obama controls the military now!! It's okay to invade countries now!! Let's go bomb the shiat out of Syria, and turn it into a pile of glass!!

Hypocritical libtards.

/against invading any country without provication.


It really is fascinating how some people miss the point so completely.
2012-12-05 09:20:31 PM
1 votes:

johnnyrocket: Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.


Americans are rapidly running out of money to fix their own problems, and in any case atrocities are ignored every day whenever addressing them would be too dangerous or inconvenient (e.g. Darfur). Besides all of that, the US has a way of making things worse whenever it interferes militarily, with only occasional exceptions (such as the first Gulf War, arguably) -- even in WWII they ended up by helping Uncle Joe take over half of Europe.
2012-12-05 09:19:40 PM
1 votes:
Muslims killing fellow Muslims in their own country.

I don't see the problem.
2012-12-05 09:19:24 PM
1 votes:
Roosevelt had the same problem.

pedobearapproved: david_gaithersburg: Obama makes his yellow cake speech in 3.....2.....1

He can't. No matter what the intellegence is he can't make that speech because it'll make him Bush. He has to wait until thousands are dead before he can make that speech. He knows it and Assad knows it. Assad also knows that Obama, in an attempt to not look like Bush, will take this before the UN, where Russia and China will foul up the works. All that will come out of that will be a light punative action.



Obama does not need to make a Bush speech. He is not actively looking for the answer that always equals war. The Bush administration did not like diplomacy. They scuttled diplomatic efforts that had been underway for over a decade because of a righteous belief system. Prior to Iraq getting underway, Hussein had relented, but war was necessary in the eyes of the administration.

Obama has none of that. We are maintaining diplomatic relations, Britain is applying pressure and expect to see Russia doing so as well, with possibly Iran chiming in as well. Assad is about to become very isolated. Hopefully, he realizes his position and relents. The only ones against that would be other monarchies in the ME, they will become very nervous looking at their own ability to hold onto power.
2012-12-05 09:16:35 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: Then don't put it in terms of good vs bad. Put it in terms of enlightened self-interest. It is not in our nation's best interest for this civil war to escalate to the use of chemical weapons. There is too much danger of the war expanding beyond Syria's borders and dragging in our allies. It would be better for us to deal with it on our terms rather than to allow the situation to escalate beyond our control. We have a blueprint for dealing with this situation that doesn't involve boots on the ground or anyone greeting us as liberators. If it comes to it, we should act.


If we can achieve those goals with a limited amount of involvement, the so be it. If, however, another land war spanning 10+ years is on the table forget it.
Deal?
2012-12-05 09:14:29 PM
1 votes:

MorrisBird: My stomach hurts. Damn, we've turned this world into a cesspool.


Well, who's we?
2012-12-05 09:13:31 PM
1 votes:
Damascus, Syria is about 10 minutes airtime from the USS Eisenhower. Slightly longer, not much, from our bases in Iraq, Jordan and Turkey. The power of a carrier group is hard to imagine. If we wanted, his airfields would be cratered and useless in 11 minutes. Any planes in the air would be dark spots on the ground in 12. This is not "USA, USA, USA ITG posturing. Its the reality of our air power.

He can't win. He can't even kill his own people. Unless we let him.
2012-12-05 09:13:26 PM
1 votes:

PirateKing: Weren't people bragging about missiles that can land in some guy's coffee cup from a thousand miles away? Why don't we just use those?


need a bigger boom than those can deliver. just blowing up the site risks releasing the chemical agents. This calls for a strike by FAE (fuel air explosives) or a "Daisy cutter" 16,000 lb conventional bomb or a small nuke so you guarantee you cook off the bad shiat at the site in the ensuing inferno.

Ugly to be sure but so is nerve gas
2012-12-05 09:12:11 PM
1 votes:

pedobearapproved: Assad also knows that Obama,


Obama had no problem calling in Seal Team Six on bin Laden. If there's an air craft carrier out in the waters near Syria, then if any sort of nerve agent or other chemical agent starts being used, there's not going to be much waiting around.
2012-12-05 09:10:48 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: Please believe me when i say I understand and appreciate that rational. I hate the idea of standing by while thousands are murdered.But there are no good side vs bad side. Just bad vs a little less bad.


Then don't put it in terms of good vs bad. Put it in terms of enlightened self-interest. It is not in our nation's best interest for this civil war to escalate to the use of chemical weapons. There is too much danger of the war expanding beyond Syria's borders and dragging in our allies. It would be better for us to deal with it on our terms rather than to allow the situation to escalate beyond our control. We have a blueprint for dealing with this situation that doesn't involve boots on the ground or anyone greeting us as liberators. If it comes to it, we should act.
2012-12-05 09:10:38 PM
1 votes:
So, that's where those pesky Iraq WMD's went.

www.sondrak.com
2012-12-05 09:08:18 PM
1 votes:
An amazingly accurate prediction put in game format. An oldie but a goodie. I remember "playing" this 10 years ago and laughing my head off and thinking "yep that sounds about right". They even got the order of Egypt and Syria correct.

GULF WAR 2.0
2012-12-05 09:07:40 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: But there are no good side vs bad side.


Stopping genocide if it starts happening makes you default good. It's all situational, no one is perfect and a lack of perfection is no excuse for sitting back.
2012-12-05 09:06:46 PM
1 votes:

david_gaithersburg: Obama makes his yellow cake speech in 3.....2.....1


He can't. No matter what the intellegence is he can't make that speech because it'll make him Bush. He has to wait until thousands are dead before he can make that speech. He knows it and Assad knows it. Assad also knows that Obama, in an attempt to not look like Bush, will take this before the UN, where Russia and China will foul up the works. All that will come out of that will be a light punative action.
2012-12-05 09:05:36 PM
1 votes:
I have a solution that should eliminate the middle east.
www.maniacworld.com
2012-12-05 09:04:37 PM
1 votes:
the war won't last long. They don't have much we want. Granted they produce/export oil but nothing (as far as I can tell) like Iran. They do import machinery and the like but all in all they don't seem to be a huge economic powerhouse in the region.
So again, not much there to take or get rid of so it should be quick Bomb the snot out of govt offices- ruin the airforce, dismantle any other armed services and the secret police and we're done. Oh and give Assad what'shisname bus fare to The Hague.

Link
2012-12-05 09:04:06 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: GAT_00: Lsherm: Where do we base the no-fly enforcement out of?

Hmm, I wonder what kind of ally we have in the area that we've given lots of weapons to? Oh right, Israel. And Turkey is in NATO and has been supporting the rebels for months. And we have a few bases in Saudi Arabia.

Nah, there's nowhere to base out of.

Can you read?


Your reasons are fairly superficial. You just dismiss that we can't use those places. The Iraqi zones were run from Saudi Arabia and Turkey. While Saudi Arabia may be farther, what legitimate reason can you give that we patrolled Northern Iraq from Turkey but can't patrol Syria?
2012-12-05 09:04:00 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....

Fair point, but the use of chemical or biological weapons should be a red line for the entire world, not just America. No one even thinks of using these kinds of weapons for anything other than genocide, and humanity has a duty to itself to stop such insanity from coming to bear.


I try not to be a jingoistic idiot, but in my opinion telling the world that a nuclear strike on any site preparing chemical weapons for use is a virtual certainty would not be out of line
2012-12-05 09:03:59 PM
1 votes:
I predict the outcome of chemical weapons from the Assad regime to go something like this:

All NATO countries become enraged, something something bombs, Syria is freed.
2012-12-05 09:01:25 PM
1 votes:

Omahawg: johnnyrocket: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.

unless they are in africa?



Our only interest is how this might affect Israel.


/Or is Israel the source of this "intelligence" - like it was in the case with Iraq?
2012-12-05 09:01:22 PM
1 votes:

DblDad: If true, then this is a nightmare - but I want to see a source cited other than "U.S. officials." I can't find any mention of this on the BBC, other British sites, Al Jazeera English, or other Middle Eastern news sites. The only other mention outside of the US media was from the Jerusalem Post. I'd think that if weapons had been loaded then the world media would be all over this.


Point.

I didn't look hard but the only BBC mention I found was from 12/3 mentioning a warning from America.
2012-12-05 09:00:25 PM
1 votes:

Oznog: TFA: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs. 

OK, I had to look this up. I know what "load" means, but WTF is "lock"??

Apparently the term is made up. Well, it's not a range command and "lock and load" doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular... even loading, apparently.


"Lock and load" was GI slang for mimicking our Vietnamese allies saying "rock and roll."

/true story
//not really, just made it up
/// should be on snopes within a fortnight
2012-12-05 08:59:54 PM
1 votes:

bim1154: The U.S. won't do shiat if they start using that crap other than wording strong letters of disapproval.


It won't be in our hands.
We've got a NATO member next door and a half a dozen allies less than a stones throw from this mess. If Assad starts lobbing gas, everyone downwind is gonna get awfully angry and demand something be done. Even if it means WWIII.

Russia is going to have to wear her big girl britches and either put Syria in its place or disown the situation. They won't back the use of chemical weapons.
They need to leash this guy, ASAP.
2012-12-05 08:57:56 PM
1 votes:
The problem with Syria is that government is seated in Damascus and the rebels are making trouble in the north and there's sandy desert in between.

Just another problem caused by map makers in the past that locked governments into stupid boundaries but no one wants to give up power that would be involved in redistricting the maps.

It's as if the region was gerrymandered to create the most strife.
2012-12-05 08:57:22 PM
1 votes:
Sarin?
Better send Nick Cage in.

/Do you know how this shiat works?
//I'd take pleasure in guttin you, boy.
2012-12-05 08:57:10 PM
1 votes:
Let them use them BEFORE we act. I don't want to give the jib-jibs more "proof" that we are just going around indiscriminately killing Arabs for no reason; especially if I'm going to have to be one of the people who has to go do it.
2012-12-05 08:54:40 PM
1 votes:

tlchwi02: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

bingo. i don't care who owns that crappy section of desert as long as i didnt have to pay for it. i realize thats callous and cruel to say, but why should more of my friends die on the other side of the globe to try and sort things out in favor of a group who are no more fond of us than assad.


I've never quoted for truth before but I guess there is always a first time. Not our business, not our problem to solve. Let them sort it out for themselves. We need a Star Trek style prime directive. Unless another country attacks us directly, we need to keep our long noses and fat arses out of it.
2012-12-05 08:53:30 PM
1 votes:

doglover: denbroc: Dr.Zom: Assad has nothing to lose at this point - he's going down and he's taking as many people as he can with him.

We need some ninjas to sneak in and take hims out quickly. We have ninjas, right?



[images.popmatters.com image 500x250]

Ninjas.
Check.

The seals aren't ninjas. They'd probably beat the ninjas is certain contests, and fail miserably in others. Even with the technology, SEALs aren't inteligence gathering spies. Ninja, on the other hand, would probably not pass the SEAL physical test on the first try. Running and climbing is a lot different in full body armor with guns and ammo strapped on.


So....House of Sinanju?
2012-12-05 08:53:21 PM
1 votes:
Any one else think Assad might send a few towards Israel? If he going to go for a hail Mary type move, attacking Israel with chemical weapons, declaring holy war, and calling for all Islamic people to join them could start a wider mid-east war. Of course sparking that greater middle eastern war would require Israel to respond to chemical weapon attacks by using nuclear weapons on Syria, but I don't think Assad cares.

He knows he's dead if he uses gas. Why not gas the Jews.

/if he survives he would be a hero to many Muslims
//and be welcome in exile in many Islamic nations
2012-12-05 08:52:11 PM
1 votes:

MelGoesOnTour: Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....


Because that book was written in the Mideast so it's unlikely that the authors would set the final battle to determine the fate of the world in Kansas.
2012-12-05 08:46:02 PM
1 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: His weapons were Soviet, French, German, and Chinese, in about that order. We have him jack shiat; we often were openly mocked, even by Britain, for trying to stop shipments of "innocuous" stuff (oil pipes that were turned into artillery pieces, for example). I know it's a lefty talking point that we armed Saddam, but just saying it doesn't make it true.


So you're saying we didn't sell him helicopters in the late 80's for Air-to ground operations in Iran that were then used against the Kurds?
2012-12-05 08:45:03 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Where do we base the no-fly enforcement out of?


Hmm, I wonder what kind of ally we have in the area that we've given lots of weapons to? Oh right, Israel. And Turkey is in NATO and has been supporting the rebels for months. And we have a few bases in Saudi Arabia.

Nah, there's nowhere to base out of.
2012-12-05 08:44:16 PM
1 votes:

ArkPanda: I think if this is validated we should destroy as many of their planes and artillery as possible now.


This.
2012-12-05 08:44:13 PM
1 votes:

atomic-age: bulldg4life: I haven't kept up on the outrage, but is the GOP angry that Obama is doing too much or not enough?

Both. Simultaneously.


This is actually a rare case when a quantum mechanical problem can be solved exactly: Obama and the GOP are in a singlet state.

Therefore whenever you observe what Obama's doing, you know due to 100% anticorrelation that the GOP is frothing at the mouth about how wrong what Obama is doing is, regardless of what Obama is actually doing.

Scientists have made numerous precision tests of this theory over the last several years, and in every case the predicted correlation has held up better than measurement accuracy, and Quantum Derpchanics is a rapidly growing field.
2012-12-05 08:43:21 PM
1 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: SilentStrider: Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!

Only nine years too late.

Well, the left made sure to mock anyone who pointed out all the trucks crossing from Iraq into Syria just before the 2003 war. "MORE LIES! HALLIBURTON!"

Um, yeah. That was helpful.


Oh dear.
You're not a particularly rational person are you?
2012-12-05 08:43:17 PM
1 votes:

WTFDYW: I've said it before eleventy times. I'll say it again. Let them kill themselves. They seem to LOVE this shiat.


Who is 'they?' You're saying you'd have a different answer if it was Christians being killed and not Muslims?
2012-12-05 08:42:56 PM
1 votes:

bim1154: The U.S. won't do shiat if they start using that crap other than wording strong letters of disapproval.


Libya would like a word with you.
2012-12-05 08:42:15 PM
1 votes:
The U.S. won't do shiat if they start using that crap other than wording strong letters of disapproval.
2012-12-05 08:41:57 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone

Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.


Where do we base the no-fly enforcement out of? It has to be close, or we can't respond fast enough. We could do western Iraq, but I doubt we have enough resources in place to enforce it. Lebanon probably won't let us stage there, and Turkey is far enough away from Damascus that even if they did give us permission, it may not work. For obvious reasons, staging out of Israel is a non-starter.

We have at least one carrier group, the George H.W. Bush in place, but while that's good for eventually shooting down planes, it's not as good for short-range missiles. It also needs local support just to keep running. There's also the USS Iwo Jima Amphibious Ready Group, which consists of 2,500 Marines. Good enough to offer support if invited, but not enough to invade the whole country. The Marines are good, but they aren't THAT good.

But all of this is a moot point, because if those guys decide that tomorrow is the day they launch planes and missiles with chemical weapons - no one has anything in place right now to stop them immediately. Shoot down the planes? Quite possibly - but some will get through unless they're all going for long range targets. If Syria launches a bombing run on a target 100 miles away from the airport, we wouldn't get there in time. Defend against short range missiles mounted on mobile platforms? Not so much.
2012-12-05 08:41:01 PM
1 votes:

Krymson Tyde: But didn't he just assure us he wouldn't use chemical weapons even if he did have them? I can't believe he is not to be trusted.
Oh well, at least he's doing it in time for the December 2 apocalypse.


*21

December 21 apocalypse.
2012-12-05 08:40:23 PM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: How many Arab countries do we need to bomb until we get one for free?



BWHHAHAAH!
2012-12-05 08:39:31 PM
1 votes:
And, oy, followup, my post is referring to Saddam's original genocidey adventures during the 80s, if the Reagan reference doesn't make that clear.
2012-12-05 08:38:28 PM
1 votes:

JustinCase: BravadoGT: This should be some party--who will show up? Turkey? Hezbollah? Israel? The US? Iran?

/gonna need some more snacks

I know, right?


Who's next?
2012-12-05 08:38:14 PM
1 votes:

thamike: Oh yeah, you know, Saddam's best friend Syria. Derpityderp


now where did I say Saddam knew about them being transported?

derpityderp makes you sound... retarded.

2012-12-05 08:37:48 PM
1 votes:
Someone mentioned that Russia has major interests in Syria. Would they be likely to defend the current government, or decide that the current government has become a liability and try to take them out quickly?
2012-12-05 08:37:17 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: cman: Syria is not the United States. Syria is a sovereign nation who is filled with people known as Syrians.

Sure, it would horrify me, but unless Syria commits some sort of military attack upon us, we should not get involved. This is Syria's problem. Syria has to work this out with themselves

This may shock you, but Syria does not exist in a self-contained little bubble.


I know that.

But as the saying goes "Those who fail to learn history are destined to repeat it" needs to be heeded. The last time we got involved in another nations civil war, Vietnam, 56000 US troops were killed and 2 million Vietnamese were killed as well. All of that was to prevent the Vietnamese from taking care of a Vietnamese problem, their right for self determination.

I dont like genocide, I dont; but sometimes we can make a problem much worse by getting involved in things that we shouldnt.
2012-12-05 08:37:02 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: JohnAnnArbor: cameroncrazy1984: JohnAnnArbor: Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office

No, because that never happened.

ORLY?

/ya rly.

No, what I mean is it wasn't "in violation of the law"


Well, you're still a dumbass.
2012-12-05 08:36:37 PM
1 votes:
Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....
2012-12-05 08:35:40 PM
1 votes:

DblDad: If true, then this is a nightmare - but I want to see a source cited other than "U.S. officials." I can't find any mention of this on the BBC, other British sites, Al Jazeera English, or other Middle Eastern news sites. The only other mention outside of the US media was from the Jerusalem Post. I'd think that if weapons had been loaded then the world media would be all over this.


Check out the side bar "Live Blog Syria"
Link

It's on Al Jazeera.
2012-12-05 08:35:06 PM
1 votes:
I've said it before eleventy times. I'll say it again. Let them kill themselves. They seem to LOVE this shiat.
2012-12-05 08:34:55 PM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.

To be fair, he was killing his own people with the WMDs we gave him in the 1980's. So that was more a test to see how well our weapons held up over time.


His weapons were Soviet, French, German, and Chinese, in about that order. We have him jack shiat; we often were openly mocked, even by Britain, for trying to stop shipments of "innocuous" stuff (oil pipes that were turned into artillery pieces, for example). I know it's a lefty talking point that we armed Saddam, but just saying it doesn't make it true.
2012-12-05 08:34:31 PM
1 votes:

cman: Syria is not the United States. Syria is a sovereign nation who is filled with people known as Syrians.

Sure, it would horrify me, but unless Syria commits some sort of military attack upon us, we should not get involved. This is Syria's problem. Syria has to work this out with themselves.


Chemical weapons is everybody's business. Wake up and smell the global affairs.
2012-12-05 08:33:46 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!


They probably have cyrillic instructions.
2012-12-05 08:33:32 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Yeah, we really shouldn't give a fark about a ruler using chemical warfare against his citizens.


You know, if I had the slightest bit of hope that our intervention would create peace over there i would be all in.
All Hope is gone.
They want War (some for the right reasons even)
They don't need nor want us.
Not our problem.
We have our own
2012-12-05 08:33:22 PM
1 votes:

ShadowLAnCeR: cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.

The real question is, can you live with yourself knowing that your country could have done something to stop it and didn't? Will you just shrug off the millions this country's "leader" would kill to remain in power?


We've seemed to do a pretty good of turning a blind eye to most of Africa, what's one more country that's just going to end up under Sharia Law anyway?
2012-12-05 08:33:14 PM
1 votes:

cman: Syria is not the United States. Syria is a sovereign nation who is filled with people known as Syrians.

Sure, it would horrify me, but unless Syria commits some sort of military attack upon us, we should not get involved. This is Syria's problem. Syria has to work this out with themselves


This may shock you, but Syria does not exist in a self-contained little bubble.
2012-12-05 08:33:08 PM
1 votes:

vegasj: Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!

wouldn't be surprised if these were Saddam's chemicals they transported over the boarder after the US announced we were moving into Iraq.


They better get a hurry on it... the Mayans' date is approaching fast!


Oh yeah, you know, Saddam's best friend Syria. Derpityderp
2012-12-05 08:32:31 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: JohnAnnArbor: Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office

No, because that never happened.


ginacobb.typepad.com

Link (New Window) 

"We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace," Pelosi told reporters after her talks with Assad.
2012-12-05 08:32:27 PM
1 votes:

The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....


we are going to be soooo totally mad at them if they do that. We might have to send another strongly worded letter. Maybe even a bad yelp review.
2012-12-05 08:31:06 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: cameroncrazy1984: Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

The fact, like Iraq, Syria is NOT OUR PROBLEM.

/oil be damned!


What oil? Syria produces almost as much oil as Central Java and just a little more than Thailand.
2012-12-05 08:29:12 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: Mentat: I think we've tried that a few dozen times already. Doesn't seem to help.

Maybe not, but it doesn't cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of US lives for the same results.


It didn't cost us a trillion dollars or any American lives to deal with Libya.
2012-12-05 08:28:33 PM
1 votes:
Maybe the Mayans were right.
2012-12-05 08:28:33 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: cameroncrazy1984: Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

The fact, like Iraq, Syria is NOT OUR PROBLEM.

/oil be damned!


Yeah, we really shouldn't give a fark about a ruler using chemical warfare against his citizens.
2012-12-05 08:28:15 PM
1 votes:

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.


To be fair, he was killing his own people with the WMDs we gave him in the 1980's. So that was more a test to see how well our weapons held up over time.
2012-12-05 08:28:14 PM
1 votes:

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.


The real question is, can you live with yourself knowing that your country could have done something to stop it and didn't? Will you just shrug off the millions this country's "leader" would kill to remain in power?
2012-12-05 08:28:04 PM
1 votes:
No-fly zone might help, since the rebels don't have planes and there's not a lot of airspace to cover (compared to past zones in Iraq).

The number of Russian SAMs the Syrians have would need to be taken into account.

Hypothetically.
2012-12-05 08:27:44 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: I think we've tried that a few dozen times already. Doesn't seem to help.


Maybe not, but it doesn't cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of US lives for the same results.
2012-12-05 08:27:24 PM
1 votes:
2012-12-05 08:26:04 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?


The fact, like Iraq, Syria is NOT OUR PROBLEM.

/oil be damned!
2012-12-05 08:25:50 PM
1 votes:

mr lawson: Mentat: Yes, it is. This has the potential to engulf the entire Middle East including several of our allies who may or may not end up on the same side. This isn't the same situation as Iraq.

Nope...Let's try letting them killing off each other for a while. The whole Middle East seem to want war. Fine. Let'em have it.

NOT OUR PROBLEM


I think we've tried that a few dozen times already. Doesn't seem to help.
2012-12-05 08:25:48 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone


Nope, destroy the aircraft on the ground, NOW!
2012-12-05 08:25:08 PM
1 votes:
Chemical weapons don't kill people. People kill people.
2012-12-05 08:24:35 PM
1 votes:

SilentStrider: Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!

Only nine years too late.


Well, the left made sure to mock anyone who pointed out all the trucks crossing from Iraq into Syria just before the 2003 war. "MORE LIES! HALLIBURTON!"

Um, yeah. That was helpful.
2012-12-05 08:24:17 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!


We were only about 1500 miles off.
2012-12-05 08:24:14 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Pair that with a visits from Seal Team 6, some Green Berets, and some of fine folks from MI6, and we got ourselves an international ass kicking of a despot.


Hopefully we've already have had international discussions (and plans) to deal with this.

/bets the Presidents phone is pretty busy right now
2012-12-05 08:24:11 PM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: How many Arab countries do we need to bomb until we get one for free?


None, we should let Israel take care of things over there.
2012-12-05 08:23:23 PM
1 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office


No, because that never happened.
2012-12-05 08:23:08 PM
1 votes:
I haven't kept up on the outrage, but is the GOP angry that Obama is doing too much or not enough?
2012-12-05 08:23:07 PM
1 votes:

vartian: cman: So another war in the middle east for us then, right?

You'd rather watch genocide in HD on the nightly news?


No, I would turn the TV off.

Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us
2012-12-05 08:23:02 PM
1 votes:
Motherfu(kers.

Shall I point out that while I agree with the weapons bans, another 'thing' we agreed on, internationally speaking, was no torture?

I still think we should help.
Because we can.
2012-12-05 08:22:45 PM
1 votes:
So, if Syria gets pushed onto the train tracks, do we only take pictures?
2012-12-05 08:22:29 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!


Only nine years too late.
2012-12-05 08:22:06 PM
1 votes:
Remember when Nancy Pelosi put on a cute headscarf and did freelance diplomacy (in violation of the law, but who cares about that) in Syria while Bush was in office? "The road to peace goes through Damascus," or some such nonsense? Accomplishing exactly nothing?

Good times.

/The little dork eye doctor was always a murderer, geniuses.
2012-12-05 08:20:01 PM
1 votes:
denver.mylittlefacewhen.com
2012-12-05 08:19:48 PM
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2012-12-05 08:19:27 PM
1 votes:
Finally an excuse to start world war three.
2012-12-05 08:19:22 PM
1 votes:
This is starting to get Syrias.
2012-12-05 08:19:18 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone


That could be a lot of fun if the F-22s are actually up and running okay for now. I'm curious to see what they would be like when let off the leash, because an air superiority fighter that you can't see coming is something that should be pants wettingly scary for a military that has to go up against them.

Of course, that is assuming that the F-22 can manage to not asphyxiate its pilot in the process. Last I head it was actually squeezing them to unconsciousness with the G-suits somehow.
2012-12-05 08:19:17 PM
1 votes:

The Muthaship: About to cross the U.S.'s red line. What's one more war....


i wonder if they're hoping iran will join in. romney may get his war anyway...
2012-12-05 08:18:53 PM
1 votes:
His head is shaped like a cylinder. Wat up with that?
2012-12-05 08:17:34 PM
1 votes:
The Turks will do it which will make the Ruskies very nervous.
2012-12-05 08:16:17 PM
1 votes:
GODDAMMIT!
2012-12-05 08:14:30 PM
1 votes:
This should be some party--who will show up? Turkey? Hezbollah? Israel? The US? Iran?

/gonna need some more snacks
 
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