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(NBC News)   Oh no the Syrian military didn't   (worldnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 783
    More: News, Syrians, officials told, NBC News, chemical weapons, Syrian Air Force, arms control agreements, U.S. officials, artillery shells  
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32835 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2012 at 8:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-05 08:44:13 PM  

atomic-age: bulldg4life: I haven't kept up on the outrage, but is the GOP angry that Obama is doing too much or not enough?

Both. Simultaneously.


This is actually a rare case when a quantum mechanical problem can be solved exactly: Obama and the GOP are in a singlet state.

Therefore whenever you observe what Obama's doing, you know due to 100% anticorrelation that the GOP is frothing at the mouth about how wrong what Obama is doing is, regardless of what Obama is actually doing.

Scientists have made numerous precision tests of this theory over the last several years, and in every case the predicted correlation has held up better than measurement accuracy, and Quantum Derpchanics is a rapidly growing field.
 
2012-12-05 08:44:16 PM  

ArkPanda: I think if this is validated we should destroy as many of their planes and artillery as possible now.


This.
 
2012-12-05 08:44:18 PM  
If Assad uses chemical weapons it will be very difficult for China and Russia to continue vetoing any sort of international intervention and reconciliation. If there is not any sort of international peace-keeping than it's gonna be a very rough spot that the Alawites, the 10% of the population who have been running shiat for 60 years, find themselves in. This could just be a bluff but it's hard to see how Assad could think that this would help his chances of not ending up being hung in a market square. He might just be enough of a bastard to use a WMD on his own people (you hear that acronym a lot less on the news when there's no international contracts to be had)
 
2012-12-05 08:44:43 PM  

GAT_00: WTFDYW: I've said it before eleventy times. I'll say it again. Let them kill themselves. They seem to LOVE this shiat.

Who is 'they?' You're saying you'd have a different answer if it was Christians being killed and not Muslims?


Well, isolationism was a pretty popular position during WWI AND WWII...
 
2012-12-05 08:45:03 PM  

Lsherm: Where do we base the no-fly enforcement out of?


Hmm, I wonder what kind of ally we have in the area that we've given lots of weapons to? Oh right, Israel. And Turkey is in NATO and has been supporting the rebels for months. And we have a few bases in Saudi Arabia.

Nah, there's nowhere to base out of.
 
2012-12-05 08:45:36 PM  

Oznog: TFA: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs. 

OK, I had to look this up. I know what "load" means, but WTF is "lock"??

Apparently the term is made up. Well, it's not a range command and "lock and load" doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular... even loading, apparently.


LOCK refers to locking a magazine, LOAD refers to injecting a round into the breach, Try to keep the fark up!

Also, it is well documented that Saddam's WMD Were moved to Syria, along with a lot of other shiat.

What part of Treaties and Commitments to Turkey, Jordan, Israel, etc. NOT a US Problem? All you "Foriegn Policy" Geeks seem to forget shiat before you where born. Oil has nothing to do with it.

NATO is gonna play with their beard for a week when Israel and the US is ready and prepared to drop this shiat at the field and not let it get to 100K dead, have to Boots on the ground crap.
 
2012-12-05 08:45:57 PM  

mr lawson: GAT_00: And if you are willing to stand by and saying that chemical warfare against civilians is simply a "problem" and even worse isn't our problem, then quite frankly I don't want to have anything to do with you. You're almost as bad as the people who would actually use these weapons.

Who are you gonna bomb? Both side are bad. One just slightly less than the other.
That is the problem. There doesn't seem to be a side that wants equal right for all.
Make no mistake I would not shed a single tear if the current president died. But this is the person who won their "election". They voted for him.


Ok, I am utterly done with you forever. This is the worst apologist shiat I've ever read.
 
2012-12-05 08:46:02 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: His weapons were Soviet, French, German, and Chinese, in about that order. We have him jack shiat; we often were openly mocked, even by Britain, for trying to stop shipments of "innocuous" stuff (oil pipes that were turned into artillery pieces, for example). I know it's a lefty talking point that we armed Saddam, but just saying it doesn't make it true.


So you're saying we didn't sell him helicopters in the late 80's for Air-to ground operations in Iran that were then used against the Kurds?
 
2012-12-05 08:46:27 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....


Is the bear hairy? Is the bear scary?
 
2012-12-05 08:46:46 PM  
Don't GIS Halabja.
 
2012-12-05 08:47:39 PM  
We need to do this gulf war 1 style, or Libya style. Completely crush their air power and offensive capability in 48 hrs and fly on home, let the resistance mop up.

We can't do a Bush 2 style anything. That guy was the farking anti-Midas, everything he touched turned to failure and mediocrity.
 
2012-12-05 08:47:40 PM  

UseUrHeadFred: [jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com image 618x347]

/Hot


That took longer than I expected.
 
2012-12-05 08:47:43 PM  

Mad_Radhu: GAT_00: Repeating myself since this might go green:

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."

No Fly Zone

That could be a lot of fun if the F-22s are actually up and running okay for now. I'm curious to see what they would be like when let off the leash, because an air superiority fighter that you can't see coming is something that should be pants wettingly scary for a military that has to go up against them.

Of course, that is assuming that the F-22 can manage to not asphyxiate its pilot in the process. Last I head it was actually squeezing them to unconsciousness with the G-suits somehow.


When I was in Israel, someone pointed out that mach1 from north to south is something like 1.2 seconds. -haven't looked at a map recently but I can't imagine what it is for Syria.

Then taking to mind that in modern aerial dogfights, aircraft are miles apart, the spacing just boggles my mind. Can they go far over the Mediterranean without triggering some type of incidents?
 
2012-12-05 08:48:04 PM  
Funny how this story has been reported widely and with such veracity. From what I hear, Assad's jets are getting knocked out with AA missiles and his artillery is hell and gone from the fighting.

He must be planning to deliver the chemical weapons by truck.
 
2012-12-05 08:48:13 PM  

bulldg4life: I haven't kept up on the outrage, but is the GOP angry that Obama is doing too much or not enough?


Yes!
 
2012-12-05 08:48:58 PM  

denbroc: Dr.Zom: Assad has nothing to lose at this point - he's going down and he's taking as many people as he can with him.

We need some ninjas to sneak in and take hims out quickly. We have ninjas, right?



[images.popmatters.com image 500x250]

Ninjas.
Check.


The seals aren't ninjas. They'd probably beat the ninjas is certain contests, and fail miserably in others. Even with the technology, SEALs aren't inteligence gathering spies. Ninja, on the other hand, would probably not pass the SEAL physical test on the first try. Running and climbing is a lot different in full body armor with guns and ammo strapped on.
 
2012-12-05 08:49:08 PM  

WTF Indeed: JohnAnnArbor: His weapons were Soviet, French, German, and Chinese, in about that order. We have him jack shiat; we often were openly mocked, even by Britain, for trying to stop shipments of "innocuous" stuff (oil pipes that were turned into artillery pieces, for example). I know it's a lefty talking point that we armed Saddam, but just saying it doesn't make it true.

So you're saying we didn't sell him helicopters in the late 80's for Air-to ground operations in Iran that were then used against the Kurds?


Um, they flew Soviet and French aircraft. Not American. Iran had American stuff, pre-revolution stuff plus reloads from arms for hostages (remember that?).
 
2012-12-05 08:49:10 PM  

atomic-age: MelGoesOnTour: Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....

Is the bear hairy? Is the bear scary?


YES

upload.wikimedia.org

nothing about this will end well. not for us, not for mr. weak chin assad, not for no one nowhere, no sirree.
 
2012-12-05 08:49:40 PM  

pciszek: Someone mentioned that Russia has major interests in Syria. Would they be likely to defend the current government, or decide that the current government has become a liability and try to take them out quickly?


Russia has a major strategic naval base which they lease in Syria and have extensively developed. Being the practical folks that they are, the Russians are unlikely to give a rat's ass who's in charge as long as they are left alone.
 
2012-12-05 08:50:07 PM  
God-is-a-Taco:
upload.wikimedia.org

...

ryanleak.com 

/A golf clap for you sir.
 
2012-12-05 08:50:11 PM  

mr lawson: Mentat: I think we've tried that a few dozen times already. Doesn't seem to help.

Maybe not, but it doesn't cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of US lives for the same results.



WW II had no costs in US dollars and US lives? We sat out of it while Europe burned because it was "not our problem"?

Syria has been going at it for awhile now. The British should have intervened, but I suppose they sit on their hands because, well simply Blair and his association with the war drumming for Iraq.

The use of Chemical Weapons will lead to a greater escalation in Syria and the region around it. We can try and prevent that escalation or we can sit back say "not our problem" and be sucked into a much larger problem later on.

This is a truly worrisome problem. It can not be underestimated. This is why SS Clinton is warning Asssad of the implications of a decision to use these weapons. If he does use them, expect to see a very large retaliation, most likely by the US, possibly NATO, or maybe the British, if they ever find their balls again.

Ah look at this Britian is stepping up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9721126/Br i tain-has-directly-warned-Assad-of-immediate-response-if-Syria-uses-che mical-weapons.html

Good.
 
2012-12-05 08:50:25 PM  

GAT_00: Ok, I am utterly done with you forever. This is the worst apologist shiat I've ever read.


Sigh..ok fine. Take out all planes, mobile rockets, hell..take out syrians entire millitary and the president.
Then what?
 
2012-12-05 08:50:34 PM  

smells_like_meat: pciszek: Someone mentioned that Russia has major interests in Syria. Would they be likely to defend the current government, or decide that the current government has become a liability and try to take them out quickly?

Russia has a major strategic naval base which they lease in Syria and have extensively developed. Being the practical folks that they are, the Russians are unlikely to give a rat's ass who's in charge as long as they are left alone.


Nor do they care how many die. They're very--what's the word--"practical."
 
2012-12-05 08:51:17 PM  

WTF Indeed: How many Arab countries do we need to bomb until we get one for free?


Bwaaaaahahaha
 
2012-12-05 08:51:22 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Anyone know if little brother Maher al-Assad is still among the living? It's kind of important, since he was the head of the military and secret police, and he'd be the one actually ordering the bombing if he's still alive. Also, there were indications Assad was willing to step down in favor of Maher earlier this year...before the Damascus bombing in July.

If Assad's back is as against the wall as this nerve-gas threat seems to indicate, then maybe the US should be interested. The last thing we need is ANOTHER unsupported power vacuum in the Middle East. Not saying we should get involved, but maybe we want to see what Turkey and Jordan are going to do.


What I'm hoping for is that the Arab countries (Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) actually intervene. It's as much their problem as ours -- and they should be very concerned should Assad launch a chemical attack on anyone and any chemical weapon land anywhere within Israeli territory. I wouldn't put it past him to do that intentionally, and I don't think any of the other ME countries would want that to happen, either, under ANY circumstances.
 
2012-12-05 08:51:39 PM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: Where do we base the no-fly enforcement out of?

Hmm, I wonder what kind of ally we have in the area that we've given lots of weapons to? Oh right, Israel. And Turkey is in NATO and has been supporting the rebels for months. And we have a few bases in Saudi Arabia.

Nah, there's nowhere to base out of.


Can you read?
 
2012-12-05 08:51:59 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Reports are the the USS Eisenhower is sitting of the coast of Syria, ready to strike.


TROLL OR MORON, I pick the Later!
 
2012-12-05 08:52:11 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....


Because that book was written in the Mideast so it's unlikely that the authors would set the final battle to determine the fate of the world in Kansas.
 
2012-12-05 08:52:17 PM  

JustinCase: When I was in Israel, someone pointed out that mach1 from north to south is something like 1.2 seconds. -haven't looked at a map recently but I can't imagine what it is for Syria.


1.2 seconds at Mach 1 is slightly over 4 football fields in length. Mach 1 is roughly a mile per five seconds.
 
2012-12-05 08:53:04 PM  

SilentStrider: Mentat: We found the WMD's! Woo hoo!

Only nine years too late.


I'm still not sure why they didn't just plant some.
 
2012-12-05 08:53:14 PM  

just_intonation: Gyrfalcon: Anyone know if little brother Maher al-Assad is still among the living? It's kind of important, since he was the head of the military and secret police, and he'd be the one actually ordering the bombing if he's still alive. Also, there were indications Assad was willing to step down in favor of Maher earlier this year...before the Damascus bombing in July.

If Assad's back is as against the wall as this nerve-gas threat seems to indicate, then maybe the US should be interested. The last thing we need is ANOTHER unsupported power vacuum in the Middle East. Not saying we should get involved, but maybe we want to see what Turkey and Jordan are going to do.

What I'm hoping for is that the Arab countries (Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) actually intervene. It's as much their problem as ours -- and they should be very concerned should Assad launch a chemical attack on anyone and any chemical weapon land anywhere within Israeli territory. I wouldn't put it past him to do that intentionally, and I don't think any of the other ME countries would want that to happen, either, under ANY circumstances.


Turkey isn't Arab, as I'm sure Turks and Arabs would both love to point out at some length.
 
2012-12-05 08:53:17 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Um, they flew Soviet and French aircraft. Not American. Iran had American stuff, pre-revolution stuff plus reloads from arms for hostages (remember that?).


Study it out.

Link
Link
Link
 
2012-12-05 08:53:21 PM  
Any one else think Assad might send a few towards Israel? If he going to go for a hail Mary type move, attacking Israel with chemical weapons, declaring holy war, and calling for all Islamic people to join them could start a wider mid-east war. Of course sparking that greater middle eastern war would require Israel to respond to chemical weapon attacks by using nuclear weapons on Syria, but I don't think Assad cares.

He knows he's dead if he uses gas. Why not gas the Jews.

/if he survives he would be a hero to many Muslims
//and be welcome in exile in many Islamic nations
 
2012-12-05 08:53:30 PM  

doglover: denbroc: Dr.Zom: Assad has nothing to lose at this point - he's going down and he's taking as many people as he can with him.

We need some ninjas to sneak in and take hims out quickly. We have ninjas, right?



[images.popmatters.com image 500x250]

Ninjas.
Check.

The seals aren't ninjas. They'd probably beat the ninjas is certain contests, and fail miserably in others. Even with the technology, SEALs aren't inteligence gathering spies. Ninja, on the other hand, would probably not pass the SEAL physical test on the first try. Running and climbing is a lot different in full body armor with guns and ammo strapped on.


So....House of Sinanju?
 
2012-12-05 08:54:02 PM  

cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Syria is not the United States. Syria is a sovereign nation who is filled with people known as Syrians.

Sure, it would horrify me, but unless Syria commits some sort of military attack upon us, we should not get involved. This is Syria's problem. Syria has to work this out with themselves

This may shock you, but Syria does not exist in a self-contained little bubble.

I know that.

But as the saying goes "Those who fail to learn history are destined to repeat it" needs to be heeded. The last time we got involved in another nations civil war, Vietnam, 56000 US troops were killed and 2 million Vietnamese were killed as well. All of that was to prevent the Vietnamese from taking care of a Vietnamese problem, their right for self determination.

I dont like genocide, I dont; but sometimes we can make a problem much worse by getting involved in things that we shouldnt.


But those two civil wars weren't like this one. There were no chemical weapons (well, that we didn't introduce) in Vietnam, and there were none in Iraq. Then again, we were told there were.
 
2012-12-05 08:54:05 PM  
Brown people...
 
2012-12-05 08:54:16 PM  

mr lawson: GAT_00: Ok, I am utterly done with you forever. This is the worst apologist shiat I've ever read.

Sigh..ok fine. Take out all planes, mobile rockets, hell..take out syrians entire millitary and the president.
Then what?


You know, we kind of have a blueprint with Libya. You might have heard something about that.
 
2012-12-05 08:54:26 PM  

Linkster: Oznog: TFA: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs. 

OK, I had to look this up. I know what "load" means, but WTF is "lock"??

Apparently the term is made up. Well, it's not a range command and "lock and load" doesn't seem to refer to anything in particular... even loading, apparently.

LOCK refers to locking a magazine, LOAD refers to injecting a round into the breach, Try to keep the fark up!

 

Well the phrase is said to originate around the M1 Garand. If you put the clip in but didn't chamber a round, wouldn't you still call it "loaded"? I'd say putting a clip into it makes it pretty darn "loaded", terminology-wise. It's not like you really need to instruct people to put a clip in the weapon before going into combat... at least I hope not.
 
2012-12-05 08:54:40 PM  

tlchwi02: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

bingo. i don't care who owns that crappy section of desert as long as i didnt have to pay for it. i realize thats callous and cruel to say, but why should more of my friends die on the other side of the globe to try and sort things out in favor of a group who are no more fond of us than assad.


I've never quoted for truth before but I guess there is always a first time. Not our business, not our problem to solve. Let them sort it out for themselves. We need a Star Trek style prime directive. Unless another country attacks us directly, we need to keep our long noses and fat arses out of it.
 
2012-12-05 08:55:16 PM  

mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!


Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.
 
2012-12-05 08:56:47 PM  

johnnyrocket: Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.


What about the ignore list?
 
2012-12-05 08:56:52 PM  

erik-k: JustinCase: When I was in Israel, someone pointed out that mach1 from north to south is something like 1.2 seconds. -haven't looked at a map recently but I can't imagine what it is for Syria.

1.2 seconds at Mach 1 is slightly over 4 football fields in length. Mach 1 is roughly a mile per five seconds.


I was told there would be no math, cause your math SUCKS!
 
2012-12-05 08:57:10 PM  
Let them use them BEFORE we act. I don't want to give the jib-jibs more "proof" that we are just going around indiscriminately killing Arabs for no reason; especially if I'm going to have to be one of the people who has to go do it.
 
2012-12-05 08:57:11 PM  

Mentat: You know, we kind of have a blueprint with Libya. You might have heard something about that.


If I thought for a second it would work, I would be all in.
 
2012-12-05 08:57:22 PM  
Sarin?
Better send Nick Cage in.

/Do you know how this shiat works?
//I'd take pleasure in guttin you, boy.
 
2012-12-05 08:57:56 PM  
The problem with Syria is that government is seated in Damascus and the rebels are making trouble in the north and there's sandy desert in between.

Just another problem caused by map makers in the past that locked governments into stupid boundaries but no one wants to give up power that would be involved in redistricting the maps.

It's as if the region was gerrymandered to create the most strife.
 
2012-12-05 08:57:59 PM  

Omahawg: atomic-age: MelGoesOnTour: Why am suddenly reminded of something I heard and ignored back when I was a kid, something in the Bible about Revelations and that "middle eastern" neck of the woods and all which might involve a "big bear"....

Is the bear hairy? Is the bear scary?

YES

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x299]

nothing about this will end well. not for us, not for mr. weak chin assad, not for no one nowhere, no sirree.


That hirsute gentleman looks friendly.
 
2012-12-05 08:58:16 PM  

kinkkerbelle: I've never quoted for truth before but I guess there is always a first time. Not our business, not our problem to solve. Let them sort it out for themselves. We need a Star Trek style prime directive. Unless another country attacks us directly, we need to keep our long noses and fat arses out of it.


Like it or not, we are the world's superpower and sometimes that means you have to deal with stuff like this. I'm not a chickenhawk aching for war. I would just as soon stay out. But sometimes, we have to deal with shiat that no one else wants to touch. If chemical weapons start flying, all bets are off. We can't just ignore it and hope that it will all work itself out.
 
2012-12-05 08:58:30 PM  

johnnyrocket: mr lawson: Repeat after me Fark.

NOT.. OUR ....FARKING.... PROBLEM!

Except that it is our problem. We are a member of the world community. Atrocities cannot be ignored.


unless they are in africa?
 
2012-12-05 08:59:00 PM  

cman: cman: cameroncrazy1984: cman: Look what happened with Bush and Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Smoking Gun, remember that? This doesnt concern us

Wait, how is this in any way similar to Iraq?

Because, remember, Saddam Hussein had WMD's and was committing genocide against his own people, right? We were played for fools then; lets not get played for fools now.

media.tumblr.com

^^^ Never thought he would agree with cman ^^^


SUCKERS!

 
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