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(Entertainment Weekly)   First look at Harrison Ford and Ender in "Ender's Game"   (insidemovies.ew.com) divider line 136
    More: Spiffy, Asa Butterfield, Orson Scott Card, Gavin Hood  
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9940 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 06 Dec 2012 at 12:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-06 10:28:35 AM

Saiga410: PirateKing: got worn out on the Shadow books, Bean started annoying me. But I will say that the ending of Ender's Shadow really made me dislike Ender more than I already did.

Ender gives the order and then breaks down, but it was Bean who did what needed to be done and won the war.

Great. Now I am going to have to read some of the Shadow books. I liked Game enough to go out and purchase the next 3 books right away.... after the 3rd book I just could not marshal the energy to read past the first chapter, and I have powered through Atlas Shrugged. Says a lot.


Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow are both really great books. But both series dive straight off the cliff after the first one.

Speaker for the Dead hangs on to the rail for a while, but Xenocide kicks the series right in the face and steps on its fingers. I liked some of the concepts in the later ones, but when they suddenly got MAGIC POWERS to create anything they could think of, it petered out.

The rest of the Shadow series just heads straight for the fireball at the bottom of the canyon. Boring and angsty.
 
2012-12-06 10:32:31 AM

Digitalstrange:

Ford should have been Mazer, not Graff


Yes, because when I think half-Maori New Zealander, I think Harrison Ford. Kingsley's a much better choice, and he's somewhat short, though not short enough.
 
2012-12-06 10:35:55 AM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: omeganuepsilon: Wasn't it Ender's kids that developed online persona's and wrote blogs becoming highly followed political commentators? I thought it was a little prophetic(whatever book I read it in at any rate). Just sort of wondering what their fark handle is.

It was his sister and older brother and they essentially became highly respected wikipedia authors under the names Locke and Demosthenes.

And that was the time I stopped reading the series because yeah: internet.


And how it would happen in real life :

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-12-06 10:36:31 AM

mhd: DeltaPunch: I'm willing to bet a million bucks Card owns a firearm.

If I remember correctly, OSC is pro gun-control, so I wouldn't bet on that.


Well the two concepts aren't incompatible, right? That is, assuming you didn't mean "completely anti-gun".

I didn't know anything about OSC before reading Ender's Game. My copy has an intro written by him, and I couldn't even finish reading it (the intro). It was so self-congratulatory and pompous, he really came across as bit of a dick. So while reading the novel I perhaps over-analyzed certain passages, thinking "what kind of person would write this", and time and time again he came across as smug and conservative.

Like, you know the whole meme about "conservative humor". It's hard to explain why, hard to define, but you know it when you see it. I felt like those same indefinable qualities were in his writing. He doesn't use much subtlety or nuance, he just pushes the action (and the characters) forward in a very blunt way. It's very hard to explain, I read it awhile ago so apologies for just summarizing some old ideas of mine... someday I may read it again more critically, perhaps takes some notes so that I can make these thoughts more coherent. In any case it's a very interesting book that deserves a deeper look no matter who you are...
 
2012-12-06 11:07:51 AM

DeltaPunch: mhd: /It's Twilight for bullied nerds

I'm willing to bet a million bucks Card owns a firearm. Something about the way Ender constantly fights back... he gets picked on and ALWAYS retaliates, smashes the other guy's nose, etc. There's no subtlety at all in this philosophy... complete catharsis for nerds, or anyone afraid of bullies. Card seems like the type of guy who's "got mah gun and ain't afraid to use it."


I found the key philosophy of the story to be somewhat different than a pure retaliatory reaction. Ender does not merely act with force. If you take any two random adversaries and make them fight, then brute strength will almost always win. Similarly if you take two chess players and have them play, the player with the greater skill will usually win.

The idea was that to defeat an enemy intellectually regardless of skill or power, you have to KNOW your enemy. You have to know them so well that you need to be able to understand their desires, hopes, perspectives, values and dreams. You need to know them as they know themselves. But when you can empathize that well with another, you will also love them as they love themselves. Then and only then can you destroy them regardless of power. A moderate chess player can study a much better opponent and learn their strategies and tendencies to a point where they can beat them from a lesser kill level. You play the opponent not the game.
 
2012-12-06 11:13:09 AM
I need to read the book again, and the sequel.

I'm not sci-fi at all but I love anything I've ever read by Orson Scott Card, even some weird western type book about the 7th son of the 7th son or some crap.
 
2012-12-06 11:15:42 AM

DeltaPunch: thinking "what kind of person would write this", and time and time again he came across as smug and conservative.


some authors write about fascist societies as satire. others write about fascist societies as desire. OSC is in the latter category.
 
2012-12-06 11:25:30 AM

Tricky Chicken: DeltaPunch: mhd: /It's Twilight for bullied nerds

I'm willing to bet a million bucks Card owns a firearm. Something about the way Ender constantly fights back... he gets picked on and ALWAYS retaliates, smashes the other guy's nose, etc. There's no subtlety at all in this philosophy... complete catharsis for nerds, or anyone afraid of bullies. Card seems like the type of guy who's "got mah gun and ain't afraid to use it."

I found the key philosophy of the story to be somewhat different than a pure retaliatory reaction. Ender does not merely act with force. If you take any two random adversaries and make them fight, then brute strength will almost always win. Similarly if you take two chess players and have them play, the player with the greater skill will usually win.

The idea was that to defeat an enemy intellectually regardless of skill or power, you have to KNOW your enemy. You have to know them so well that you need to be able to understand their desires, hopes, perspectives, values and dreams. You need to know them as they know themselves. But when you can empathize that well with another, you will also love them as they love themselves. Then and only then can you destroy them regardless of power. A moderate chess player can study a much better opponent and learn their strategies and tendencies to a point where they can beat them from a lesser kill level. You play the opponent not the game.


That's a good analysis, thanks.
 
mhd
2012-12-06 11:27:07 AM

DeltaPunch: Well the two concepts aren't incompatible, right? That is, assuming you didn't mean "completely anti-gun".


There's plenty written by OSC about the evils of teh gay, but I couldn't quickly find anything extended pertaining to gun ownership. One biography describes him as "anti-NRA", and he seems to be the type who goes a bit to the extremes, so my money would be on "no guns", but I see where you're coming from.

DeltaPunch: In any case it's a very interesting book that deserves a deeper look no matter who you are...


Well, the same could be said about Twilight or Shock Headed Pete. I find the Mary Sue-like nature of the novel to be a bit too obvious, reminding me of too many fantasy/sci-fi novels I devoured as a young nerd (I read Ender's Game about 2 years ago, a bit past beyond my impressionable teenage phase). And the conclusion of basically exonerating him from genocide, making him just a victim is a bit too much. Although I do think that the "Hitler apology" accusation is a bit far-fetched.
 
2012-12-06 11:39:14 AM
WHAR GRAFF WHA... oh, right.
 
2012-12-06 12:32:44 PM
www.dvdtalk.com

All of you meat-bags can bite my shiny metal ass!
 
2012-12-06 12:32:54 PM

StopLurkListen: As we're on the subject of sci-fi books, "Snow Crash" should be a movie.

I don't care that the author's idea of an internet is dated and bizarre. Like going from FARK to CNN requires driving across a simulated planet.

OK, I just want the "Poor Impulse Control" tattoo on my forehead.


I thought that tattoo was Diamond Age? Or maybe I'm thinking of the gun implanted into the forehead. Regardless, Snow Crash would make a great movie with a right screenplay. Just seeing a nuclear-powered gatling gun in action would be worth the price of the ticket.
 
2012-12-06 01:17:58 PM

The Onion is prophetic: dugitman: The Onion is prophetic: I've never thought that book would adapt well to a movie... I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have high hopes going in to it. I've read the book probably at least two hundred times, and of all the books in the 'Enderverse', I think it would be the toughest to bring to life.

Really? The first book(my favorite scifi book fwiw) is not an overly complicated story. I've always thought it would be a great movie.

I think the problem I have with a movie is that it's a very straightforward story, but that's not good enough for anyone in Hollywood, so they're going to add in a bunch of crap... I wouldn't doubt if they tried to do some stupid love story between Ender and Petra. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but knowing what Hollywood does to things, I'm betting they're going to fark it all up.


You mean like lens flares and stuff?
 
2012-12-06 01:19:17 PM

Night Night Cream Puff: Just read Ender's Game a few weeks ago. Disappointed to see that Hollywood went the safe route and used older kids. I understand why they did it, but I think seeing kids of equivalent ages to the book would have been more disturbing. Which is sort of the point. The book was okay, if not predicatble, but is worth the read. I probably would have loved the book if I read it back in junior high.


I agree. The audience is supposed to be disturbed that society took very young children and turned them into weapons. And I'm not sure Ender's sense of isolation is going to come across in an older kid who only spends maybe a year away from home.
 
2012-12-06 02:33:02 PM

quizzical: Night Night Cream Puff: Just read Ender's Game a few weeks ago. Disappointed to see that Hollywood went the safe route and used older kids. I understand why they did it, but I think seeing kids of equivalent ages to the book would have been more disturbing. Which is sort of the point. The book was okay, if not predicatble, but is worth the read. I probably would have loved the book if I read it back in junior high.

I agree. The audience is supposed to be disturbed that society took very young children and turned them into weapons. And I'm not sure Ender's sense of isolation is going to come across in an older kid who only spends maybe a year away from home.


Yeah, I think they decided "Well, damn it all, we're going to make it a movie and if only a small portion of the original work survives the translation, then so bloody be it." The time frame just can't collapse down into one movie (or even get the same effect in a series of movies), Hollywood just can't pull off the "young children as murderers/even just having the capacity for tremendous violence." Our modern age has surpassed that world in technology in some ways (the nets vs. modern internet just doesn't work... you have to project yourself back to a world where the internet as we know it doesn't exist for it to make any sense).

The movie might well be entertaining, but by necessity the story it tells won't be the same story we find in the book.
 
2012-12-06 02:43:07 PM

DeltaPunch: mhd: /It's Twilight for bullied nerds

I'm willing to bet a million bucks Card owns a firearm. Something about the way Ender constantly fights back... he gets picked on and ALWAYS retaliates, smashes the other guy's nose, etc. There's no subtlety at all in this philosophy... complete catharsis for nerds, or anyone afraid of bullies. Card seems like the type of guy who's "got mah gun and ain't afraid to use it."


No, Ender never retaliated. He never even wanted to fight, but when he's forced into a fight he always made sure to inflict enough damage so he would never fight that person again.
 
2012-12-06 02:47:12 PM
meh
 
2012-12-06 02:52:26 PM

akula: Hollywood just can't pull off the "young children as murderers/even just having the capacity for tremendous violence.".


I remember the 'training' montage from 300. That kid pulled off kicking ass in order to survive quite well.
 
2012-12-06 02:53:56 PM
BEEEEAAAANNNNNN
 
2012-12-06 02:56:51 PM

DeltaPunch:
The idea was that to defeat an enemy intellectually regardless of skill or power, you have to KNOW your enemy. You have to know them so well that you need to be able to understand their desires, hopes, perspectives, values and dreams. You need to know them as they know themselves. But when you can empathize that well with another, you will also love them as they love themselves. Then and only then can you destroy them regardless of power. A moderate chess player can study a much better opponent and learn their strategies and tendencies to a point where they can beat them from a lesser kill level. You play the opponent not the game.

That's a good analysis, thanks.


I think i kinda paraphrased Ender's own words from when he was convalescing with Val back on Earth. My own analysis would be much less pithy.

/Super smart boy does well in school then plays some video games eventually gets to fly a helicopter so he writes a book about his brother.
 
2012-12-06 03:15:37 PM
Bringing to life those "complicated" emotions was made easier by the fact that the recruits in the film are a bit older than the Launchies

A BIT older? They're, like, twice the age! I know it would be extremely hard to produce the film with an age appropriate cast, but it takes away a LOT from the story. It was a big deal for a number of reasons. It speaks more highly of Ender's abilities that he's able to do what he does at such a young age. It adds poignancy to the fact that he's leaving his family. His age sets the stage for a lot of the emotional journey he undergoes...

Despite that change, Hood wants fans of the novel to know that he holds Ender's Game, the book, in high esteem. (We already know he maintained the emotion-monitoring chip on the back of Ender's neck.)

That wasn't an emotion monitoring chip... What does it say about you when you claim you hold the book in high esteem and then proceed to get something like that wrong? The chip allowed the government to literally monitor everything going on in his life. It let them see what he saw, hear what he heard, etc.

If these are the kinds of things they can't get right, really basic concepts, it makes me wonder what else they'll fark up. Will Ender kill Bonzo in the shower or are they going to water that down for the general masses? Maybe he should just beat him up and Bonzo will be washed out. Are we going to get to know exactly how evil Peter is? Do we get to see him vivisecting animals in the woods? Or will he just be a bully of a footnote in Ender's life?
 
2012-12-06 03:21:00 PM
Also, while I'm here, if you liked Ender's Game, read The Worthing Saga. Another OSC book. I really liked it.
 
mhd
2012-12-06 03:39:34 PM

Gilligann: He never even wanted to fight, but when he's forced into a fight he always made sure to inflict enough damage so he would never fight that person again.


And we are constantly assured that Ender killing other boys is out of the best reasons, purely rational, and that he is the victim. And as he didn't know of the fatal consequences of this (and, arguably, didn't intend them), he's innocent.

Intention is everything. Good people can't do bad things. And Ender, was we're told over and over again, is good. Honestly, I thought the Dresden novels were exercises in a self-pitying hero, but OSC basically has only this one theme in the book. So there we've got the hero who kills a small boy by kicking him in the nads, and all that the book focuses on is Ender's suffering.

For a Mary Sue story, it's better written than My Immortal, I give it that...
 
jvl
2012-12-06 03:50:29 PM

1000 Ways to Dye: I totally dug the Homecoming series, except the last book, which was just batshiat crazy and made zero sense.


I hated the series, despite desperately hoping that some good would come from reading them. If I understand correctly, it is actually the Book of Mormon or some such reimagined into the future.

Confabulat: Then the dude whines about gay people and clings to his Mormonism


Damn that guy who thinks Gay People are born that way rather than thinking it's a choice and writes gay people into his stories because people in real life are often gay! Damn him to heck!

And as an aside, I really like the first of the new prequel books about the first Bugger invasion.
 
2012-12-06 04:01:33 PM

Andrew Wiggin: meh


HA!

HAHA!

Seriously, best post you could have put in this thread.
 
2012-12-06 05:04:44 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Ender's Game would work much better as an animated feature? That way the ages of the kids wouldn't be a problem, you could do the Zero-G battle rooms with no problem, and you could create a visual world that suits the tone and message of the book without having to add as much dialogue and set design to do the extra work for you.
 
2012-12-06 05:33:26 PM

sabreWulf07: StopLurkListen: As we're on the subject of sci-fi books, "Snow Crash" should be a movie.

I don't care that the author's idea of an internet is dated and bizarre. Like going from FARK to CNN requires driving across a simulated planet.

OK, I just want the "Poor Impulse Control" tattoo on my forehead.

I thought that tattoo was Diamond Age? Or maybe I'm thinking of the gun implanted into the forehead. Regardless, Snow Crash would make a great movie with a right screenplay. Just seeing a nuclear-powered gatling gun in action would be worth the price of the ticket.


The Poor Impulse Control tattoo was in Snow Crash - it belonged to Raven, the Eskimo riding around California on a motorcycle with a hydrogen bomb rigged to go off upon his death. Uncle Enzo fights him at the end of the book, and Hiro Protagonist deals with him on the Interwebs.
 
2012-12-06 06:26:42 PM
i guess i know where i'll be the night it opens.
 
2012-12-06 06:47:34 PM
img2.timeinc.net

That belongs in a museum!
 
amo [TotalFark]
2012-12-06 08:17:12 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: natmar_76: Nice. They nailed the set and costume design. It fits the book and what I imagined, tbqh.

I concur. Also, which way is the enemy base?


The enemy's gate is down.

airsupport: The Viewer's Expectations are DOWN!


*golf clap*
 
2012-12-06 08:39:02 PM

YodaBlues: stupiddream:
On another note, I liked Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow but the rest were tedious. I hope they can get the violence right. That was one of the shocking things of the books. Smart kids being brutal. I think that is why the actors are all older, so that they can be convincing as calculating killers.

Yeah, I'm ok with the age thing. I mean, it would be nice to see the kids as younger and everything, it does ratchet up the brutality, but people need to think of this from a movie making perspective: you would need to find a good number of quality child actors who can pull it off. And most kid actors, frankly, suck.

Remember, Jake Lloyd was attached to play Ender after Phantom Menace hit the theaters. *SHUDDER*


Phantom Menace was not Jake Lloyd's fault.
 
2012-12-06 08:40:58 PM
This is the first sight of Harrison Ford wearing any kind of space outfit since Return of the Jedi almost 30 damn years ago. I'm prepared to be disappointed but I can't help but squee a little.
 
2012-12-06 08:48:53 PM

Bith Set Me Up: [img2.timeinc.net image 510x380]

That belongs in a museum!


They're too old. It needs to have a 'child soldier of sierra leone' feel. Which means this should be done by anybody but an American company.
 
2012-12-07 12:18:27 AM

Galactica Actual: Am I the only one who thinks Ender's Game would work much better as an animated feature? That way the ages of the kids wouldn't be a problem, you could do the Zero-G battle rooms with no problem, and you could create a visual world that suits the tone and message of the book without having to add as much dialogue and set design to do the extra work for you.


I just listened to Ender's Game on audiobook over Thanksgiving and thought the same thing. I imagine it in the anime style like the Star Wars cartoon or Full Metal Alchemist. The story requires a lot of internal narration and quick action, which I think the anime style is able to do well. I think a Pixar 3-D style would be cheesy.

Okoboji: The Onion is prophetic: I wouldn't doubt if they tried to do some stupid love story between Ender and Petra. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but knowing what Hollywood does to things, I'm betting they're going to fark it all up.

It's Hollywood... I'd be willing to say that you can bank on that happening.


The version I listened to was the 20th anniversary edition. There was an extra bit at the end where Card talked about a movie being in the works (2008 I think). It was pretty funny and detailed how he wanted to stay true to the book while the studios kept trying to screw him out of that. Every studio basically said that they needed to make the characters 16 with a love story so they could sell tickets to teeny boppers on dates. If the studios would agree to kids with no love story they would pull sneaky shiat like burying a clause somewhere in the contract that said something to the effect of, "The characters can be 12+/- 4 years" to allow them to make everyone 16. 

Card seemed to really like the studio, the actors, and thought it was a good adaptation because...


**SPOILER ALERT***
...he blended Ender's Game with Ender's Shadow so that they could make a lot of things that go on in Ender's head show up on screen in his interactions with Bean. Apparently the film is framed as the competition between Ender and Bean so that you don't actually know who will be the commander until the end.

**SPOILER ALERT***
 
2012-12-07 01:46:09 AM

RogermcAllen: I think a Pixar 3-D style would be cheesy.


Of course a Pixar one would be cheesy.

Almost cartoon kid gloves of Pixar =/= Entirety of what's possible with 3D rendering.

Take Final Fantasy, then forget it, that was a while back.........Beowulf was damn good in my opinion. the technology has come a long ways since Shrek and Monsters Inc.

I don't think anime/cartoons would do the story justice. It's fine for some more shallow works, but you lose a lot of nuance with simple pen and ink drawings. Sure, there are tricks to get around some of that, and some may have an infatuation with the stylized animations(bronies anyone). But as an art form, it's extremely limited.
 
2012-12-07 05:42:06 PM
too long of a wait!! want movie noooooooooooow
 
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