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(SeattlePI)   Suspect in fatal NYC subway push throws himself under the bus   ( seattlepi.com) divider line
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24477 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2012 at 4:38 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-05 01:09:21 PM  
8 votes:
Glad they caught the guy, and he's a much bigger villain than anyone else in the story, but:

He [Abbassi] told NBC's "Today" show Wednesday that he wasn't trying to take a photo of the man, but was trying to alert the motorman to what was going on by flashing his camera.

even if that is the case, the photographer still didn't need to sell the shots to a newspaper, and The Post sure as hell didn't need to publish them on the front page of it's trashpaper.
2012-12-05 02:15:59 PM  
5 votes:

Ennuipoet: Cythraul: In before 'photojournalism, how does it work?' assholes.

Yeah, well here I am. The photographer, a credential professional on assignment, explained himself thoroughly and concisely. Whether or not you choose to believe him is your business. The Post is shiat for running the photo on the front page, but anyone who doesn't think the Post would do that is naive.

The hate on this photographer is inexplicable to me, he did what he could given the situation. Unless he is actually Clark Kent of farking Peter Parker, I am pretty sure nothing else could be done.

I saw him in the Today Show, he was neither of those two.


People lost all sympathy for him when he decided to sell the photos to make a quick buck. If he was really a stand-up guy he wouldn't have taken the photo to some trashpaper and have it splashed over the front page for all to see.

And please don't say this is like the self-immolating monk, or the Tank Man at Tiananmen Square. If this guy was trying to make a political statement by standing in front of a train, take all the pictures you want. But he was a man who did not want to die and did not want to make a statement. Nor is this like war where the photographers are in danger and trying to document the atrocities of war for future generations. This photo benefitted no one except the photographer and The Post.

97% of the blame goes to the murderer who pushed him, 2% to The Post for being callous enough to print that as a giant front-page picture, and 1% for the guy who decided to make a quick buck at the expense of another human.
2012-12-05 04:44:49 PM  
4 votes:
This is what I don't understand. I've seen video prior to the push and it shows the victim pretty much in the face of the crazy guy. The crazy guy is screaming at him to go away and leave him alone. Why was the victim basically "poking crazy with a stick"? If an obviously disturbed individual is screaming at you to leave him alone, you might want to leave crazy alone.
2012-12-05 04:42:56 PM  
4 votes:

impaler: was trying to alert the motorman to what was going on by flashing his camera.

Camera flashes are the universal sign for "man stuck on subway track."


Later, we'll here from the train engineer: "I could've stopped the train in time, but some jackass was taking a bunch of pictures right in front of me. It threw me off. I couldn't see anything."
2012-12-05 05:44:37 PM  
3 votes:

Paintbox: As a photographer, I can say that you folks just don't get it.
We capture moments, thats all.
I tend to carry my camera everywhere I go for just this reason. You see something unusual, newsworthy, whatever. You snap the pic.
The photo will probably be used to help put this animal away.
Gotta go to my OTHER job now.


Carrying around a camera does not make you a working photojournalist. I read the other thread and the asinine comparisons to photojournalists covering war. Journalists who chose to join in the action in a warzone lose their civilian protections layed out in the Geneva Convention. Technically speaking directly attacking journalists is considered a war crime unless said journalist picks up a weapon and fires back. So war correspondents have at least some incentive to remain passive observers.

Guy riding home on the subway with camera in hand does not. It's a silly argument. Would it have made a difference if this photog ran right up to the guy (which by most accounts 22 secounds would have given him ample time to do so) taken 10 seconds to frame up a perfect shot of his face waited for the train to be in the perfect position and then taken the shot?

This numbskull would have been better off just saying "I didn't feel I could have helped him in anyway so I did what came naturally to me and started taking pictures". But instead he gave us that stupid "signaling the conductor with the flash story."
2012-12-05 05:01:15 PM  
3 votes:

Paintbox: As a photographer, I can say that you folks just don't get it.
We capture moments, thats all.
I tend to carry my camera everywhere I go for just this reason. You see something unusual, newsworthy, whatever. You snap the pic.
The photo will probably be used to help put this animal away.


Sure, but then you don't have to lie about your true intentions, do you?
2012-12-05 07:42:29 PM  
2 votes:

Paintbox: As a photographer, I can say that you folks just don't get it.
We capture moments, thats all.
I tend to carry my camera everywhere I go for just this reason. You see something unusual, newsworthy, whatever. You snap the pic.
The photo will probably be used to help put this animal away.
Gotta go to my OTHER job now.


It's a subway tunnel, there are security cameras. There was absolutely no need for the photographer to be able to make money off of another person's suffering like that.

People can cry that he was "on assignment" all they want, but unless his assignment was to get a shot of somebody on train tracks, then he's an asshole.
2012-12-05 07:16:37 PM  
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: Cythraul: In before 'photojournalism, how does it work?' assholes.

Yeah, well here I am. The photographer, a credential professional on assignment, explained himself thoroughly and concisely. Whether or not you choose to believe him is your business. The Post is shiat for running the photo on the front page, but anyone who doesn't think the Post would do that is naive.

The hate on this photographer is inexplicable to me, he did what he could given the situation. Unless he is actually Clark Kent of farking Peter Parker, I am pretty sure nothing else could be done.

I saw him in the Today Show, he was neither of those two.


He sold a photo from a snuff film. He's scum for making money off of that.

When you profit off of another human's death, misery, or suffering, you're scum. You're pure scum.
2012-12-05 07:10:13 PM  
2 votes:

Giant Clown Shoe: Komplex: Photographers are the biggest assholes in the world.

When they aren't farking up your shopping by taking pictures at the green market, they are exploiting people in moments of weakness for "their art."

Riding the subway in the evening a few months ago, a mother and her two young children (5~9 years old) got on. There were plenty of seats available, but the mother forced both kids to stand. After a few stops (still with empty seats) the younger girl started to fall asleep on her feet.

This hipster sitting next to me starts to take a picture of the girl with her iphone without the mother's knowledge. I give her a dirty look. She ignores me and continues to snap away in that sleazy surreptitious way.

The family get off, and I tell the hipster that it was a sleazy thing to take the photo of a child without the parent's or child's permission or knowledge.

She defensively told me that "It's OK, I'm a photographer." I screamed at her "NO IT'S NOT! you violated that child's dignity." She apologize, said she was going to delete the photos and got off at the next station.

/csb

I'll take pictures of anything I want. Some of my best work has been done immediately before the very strong objection of the person I just shot. I won't delete anything and I'll use my work in any way I want.

If you don't want your picture taken stay home.

Btw, you're lucky it was some hipster girl. On most big city mass transit you would've been told to suck a cock and pepper sprayed.

/mind your business
//the next time I see a mother neglecting her kids on a train or bus and shoot it I'll think of you


Jackass. You can take pictures of whatever you want. Doesn't mean you *should*.

/was a photographer
//the kind with a darkroom, not "I have enough money to buy a digital camera and shoot until I get it"
2012-12-05 06:01:06 PM  
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: Huggermugger: farking parasite bottom feeder deserves to be thrown in front of a train.

You do realize the photographer did not throw the person in front of the train? Your reaction seems to indicate otherwise.


I realize it. The photographer at least demonstrated that he is a reprehensible human being, and thus deserves being killed more than the blameless person who actually was killed.
2012-12-05 05:44:24 PM  
2 votes:
i47.tinypic.com

Always nice to see my farky labels confirmed.
2012-12-05 05:43:19 PM  
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: Cythraul: In before 'photojournalism, how does it work?' assholes.

Yeah, well here I am. The photographer, a credential professional on assignment, explained himself thoroughly and concisely. Whether or not you choose to believe him is your business. The Post is shiat for running the photo on the front page, but anyone who doesn't think the Post would do that is naive.

The hate on this photographer is inexplicable to me, he did what he could given the situation. Unless he is actually Clark Kent of farking Peter Parker, I am pretty sure nothing else could be done.

I saw him in the Today Show, he was neither of those two.


farking parasite bottom feeder deserves to be thrown in front of a train.
kab
2012-12-05 05:43:06 PM  
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: The hate on this photographer is inexplicable to me, he did what he could given the situation.


Make sure he had good focus for the pic, rather than trying to help the guy?

fark him and that POS newspaper.
2012-12-05 05:40:14 PM  
2 votes:

thorthor: Not interested in flame war over photojournalism, I have an honest question. I don't live in a city, and have only ridden a subway train 2 or 3 times, but I wonder why they cant have a wall/barrier of some kind with doors that line up and open when the train stops. Wouldn't that stop things like this from happening? Just curious. Is it possible or am I missing something?


Many other cities around the world have this. Tokyo for example. Plus their rail and subway systems are clean, the pricing is fair and people are polite to each other.

Then you get back to America and all you hear is biatching about how we can't afford any sort of upgrades to anything, the subway is filthy, people are rude, fares get routinely hiked, tolls are through the roof and Republicans can't stop talking about cuttting everything so we can have even less. But remember America is the best country in the world.
2012-12-05 05:30:57 PM  
2 votes:
Not interested in flame war over photojournalism, I have an honest question. I don't live in a city, and have only ridden a subway train 2 or 3 times, but I wonder why they cant have a wall/barrier of some kind with doors that line up and open when the train stops. Wouldn't that stop things like this from happening? Just curious. Is it possible or am I missing something?
2012-12-05 05:23:22 PM  
2 votes:
Photographers are the biggest assholes in the world.

When they aren't farking up your shopping by taking pictures at the green market, they are exploiting people in moments of weakness for "their art."

Riding the subway in the evening a few months ago, a mother and her two young children (5~9 years old) got on. There were plenty of seats available, but the mother forced both kids to stand. After a few stops (still with empty seats) the younger girl started to fall asleep on her feet.

This hipster sitting next to me starts to take a picture of the girl with her iphone without the mother's knowledge. I give her a dirty look. She ignores me and continues to snap away in that sleazy surreptitious way.

The family get off, and I tell the hipster that it was a sleazy thing to take the photo of a child without the parent's or child's permission or knowledge.

She defensively told me that "It's OK, I'm a photographer." I screamed at her "NO IT'S NOT! you violated that child's dignity." She apologize, said she was going to delete the photos and got off at the next station.

/csb
2012-12-05 05:11:10 PM  
2 votes:
I got an idea. Emergency "Passenger on Tracks" button much like a fire-alarm pull-switch. Have one on every other pylon. Someone falls, someone breaks the glass and hits it, then it starts to flash lights for the operators in the tunnels before they the reach the platform.
May not solve some situations, but could definitely avert many of them.
2012-12-05 05:06:07 PM  
2 votes:

Phoenix_M: RidgeRunner5: He said he was shocked that people nearer to the victim didn't try to help in the 22 seconds before the train struck.

That pisses me off more than anything else in the story.

You would have had two dead people the one on the track and the one decapitated by the train. If the Asian guy was in sound mind he would have ducked into the crawl space under the platform.


It's blatant hypocrisy, though. He's admonishing people for not doing anything, while he did nothing.
2012-12-05 04:59:01 PM  
2 votes:
The guy took pictures, so what? It's not like all these other people rushed in to save the guy while the photographer did nothing but take pictures.

So he sold the pictures, what's the big deal with that? That's how he makes a living. As long as the pictures are legal, then I don't see why he gets blamed.

The newspaper made a business decision. They either make money off the front page placement, or they'll lose money due to the public backlash.

All the whining is pointless in the end. I'd rather have controversial pictures published, then I decide for myself the merits of viewing them or not, than have others decide what I can and can't see.
2012-12-05 04:56:42 PM  
2 votes:
the photographer is such a liar. "I was using my flash to warn the driver!" yes, a good idea is to blind the driver with flashes so he cant see the man on the tracks, you can see the reflection of his flash in the conductors glasses. Also, i need to know what kind of autofocus this guy has, cause it takes great running and firing shots!
2012-12-05 04:50:15 PM  
2 votes:

Ow! That was my feelings!: This is what I don't understand. I've seen video prior to the push and it shows the victim pretty much in the face of the crazy guy. The crazy guy is screaming at him to go away and leave him alone. Why was the victim basically "poking crazy with a stick"? If an obviously disturbed individual is screaming at you to leave him alone, you might want to leave crazy alone.


From a couple of other articles that I read, people said the Asian guy appeared drunk and he had confronted the homeless guy for begging. That is what led to that video of him screaming at the Asian guy to get away from him.
2012-12-05 04:47:32 PM  
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Glad they caught the guy, and he's a much bigger villain than anyone else in the story, but:

He [Abbassi] told NBC's "Today" show Wednesday that he wasn't trying to take a photo of the man, but was trying to alert the motorman to what was going on by flashing his camera.

even if that is the case, the photographer still didn't need to sell the shots to a newspaper, and The Post sure as hell didn't need to publish them on the front page of it's trashpaper.


Photographer worked for the ny post and got an amazingly composed shot for running and taking pictures
2012-12-05 02:04:19 PM  
2 votes:

Cythraul: In before 'photojournalism, how does it work?' assholes.


Yeah, well here I am. The photographer, a credential professional on assignment, explained himself thoroughly and concisely. Whether or not you choose to believe him is your business. The Post is shiat for running the photo on the front page, but anyone who doesn't think the Post would do that is naive.

The hate on this photographer is inexplicable to me, he did what he could given the situation. Unless he is actually Clark Kent of farking Peter Parker, I am pretty sure nothing else could be done.

I saw him in the Today Show, he was neither of those two.
2012-12-05 01:25:24 PM  
2 votes:
Naeem Davis, 30, was taken into custody for questioning Tuesday

"What's your name?"
"Naeem."
"That's right, what's your name?"
"Naeem."
"That's what I asked!"
"That's my name."
"What's your name?"
"No, Naeem is."
"Your name is...what?"
"No, Naeem."
*sigh* "Let's try this again. Give me your name."
"That's what I'm telling you. Naeem Davis."
"So, Davis is your first name?"
"No, Davis is my last name."
"And your first name?"
"Naeem."
"That's what I'm asking you!"
...
2012-12-06 11:24:20 AM  
1 vote:

thisiszombocom: Lost in all of this madness is whether it not the guys daughter was hot. We all like Asians right? I mean who farking cares about the males


I'd hit it.
2012-12-05 11:04:40 PM  
1 vote:

HideAndGoFarkYourself: The guy who shot the picture made a few good points when questioned about it. He mentioned that he was way too far away to actually help the guy physically. He also pointed out that there were a lot of other people there, who were much closer than he was, who did nothing to help. At the speed that train would be coming there's almost no way he could cover the ground, grab the guy, and pull him to safety.

I see this picture as no different than the Kent State shooting pictures, the asian guy with the gun to his head, the african boy with the vulture in the background, etc.


All those people not in the shot?
2012-12-05 09:43:29 PM  
1 vote:

BarkingUnicorn: gittlebass: gittlebass: tenpoundsofcheese: rufus-t-firefly: RidgeRunner5: Phoenix_M: RidgeRunner5: He said he was shocked that people nearer to the victim didn't try to help in the 22 seconds before the train struck.

That pisses me off more than anything else in the story.

You would have had two dead people the one on the track and the one decapitated by the train. If the Asian guy was in sound mind he would have ducked into the crawl space under the platform.

It's blatant hypocrisy, though. He's admonishing people for not doing anything, while he did nothing.

He took a photo and got paid.

That's TWO things.

citation that he specifically got paid for that photo?

He worked as a photog for the post

He worked as a photog for the post

gittlebass, do you really think a freelancer just gave that pic to the Post for free?


Quite the opposite, someone asked for a citation for whether or not he got paid, so i posted said citation. If you fail at reading comprehension that isn't my fault
2012-12-05 09:33:30 PM  
1 vote:

poisonpill: TwistedFark: This is just the media stirring up bullshiat controversy to jazz up a story that, while terrible, is not particularly interesting (and won't sell commercial time or fill air on it's own).

In the 22 seconds that it took for the man to be killed once he was pushed, I doubt anyone other than Superman would have been able to come to this guys rescue. Hell, knowing the shock and reaction time of the average person I'd be willing to bet that it didn't even register with the onlookers what was going on until after it had happened.

It'd be another thing if anyone actually had the opportunity to help the guy, but frankly - no one did. Which is why it didn't happen. There is no story here about the moral decline of society, so for farks sake, knock it off already.

While I understand your point, I recall several cases on the local news in my lifetime of people jumping down to help someone who's fallen on the tracks. I've also known people who have personally witnesses it happen (and not make the news).

I'm not an optimist, but I do believe it's *unusual* that nobody helped this guy. Stories of NYers not helping are popular and make the rounds, but it's hardly the suffocating normalcy.


You don't need to be an optimist here and I don't see anything patently unusual about this.

Hell, when you are driving your car and actively searching for danger that you expect to find, driving response time for just hitting your damn break (minimal movement) is between 3 and 4 seconds. That's just when people understand the type of danger or stimulous they are seeing (like a red light, or braking car). Throw something unusual into the mix, like a washed out road, a jack knifed trailer, or even a car without brake lights that is actually braking, and you get respones times that are almost double that.

Point is - it would have taken an average person probably the majority of that 22 seconds to even realize/understand what had happened, let alone formulate a plan on how to help. Stopping your car is easy - you know what to do, press the brake. Believe it or not, most people under stress would fail to come up with a solution on how to pull a guy out from infront of a train in under 10 seconds... which they probably wouldn't even have because they would have needed to start walking towards him in the first place to be able to assist.

I stand by my original assertion - this is just the media trying to stir the knuckleheads up into a frenzy with the standard "moral decline of society" story. The sickening thing here other than this gentlemans untimely demise, is how many people are willing to feast at the all you can eat retard buffett.
2012-12-05 08:22:50 PM  
1 vote:
Lost in all of this madness is whether it not the guys daughter was hot. We all like Asians right? I mean who farking cares about the males
2012-12-05 08:05:37 PM  
1 vote:
This is just the media stirring up bullshiat controversy to jazz up a story that, while terrible, is not particularly interesting (and won't sell commercial time or fill air on it's own).

In the 22 seconds that it took for the man to be killed once he was pushed, I doubt anyone other than Superman would have been able to come to this guys rescue. Hell, knowing the shock and reaction time of the average person I'd be willing to bet that it didn't even register with the onlookers what was going on until after it had happened.

It'd be another thing if anyone actually had the opportunity to help the guy, but frankly - no one did. Which is why it didn't happen. There is no story here about the moral decline of society, so for farks sake, knock it off already.
2012-12-05 08:04:44 PM  
1 vote:
***Safety Tip***

If you're in the DC metro (subway) - each platform has a safety space beneath it closest to the platform. The electrified rail is always farthest away from the platform in every DC subway station. So if you fall on the tracks in DC - get your ass under the platform. They put that space there for a reason.

I put that in the other thread, but I figure it's good information to know if you're visiting DC.
2012-12-05 08:00:22 PM  
1 vote:
The photographer's own photo shows no one closer to Han than he himself.

The Post is a shiat newspaper as well as the people in it's employ.

I hope he never sleeps soundly again.
2012-12-05 07:48:14 PM  
1 vote:

Giant Clown Shoe: mind your business


Follow your own damn advice.

/you can take a picture of me
//if you want your camera busted
2012-12-05 07:47:46 PM  
1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: It's a subway tunnel, there are security cameras. There was absolutely no need for the photographer to be able to make money off of another person's suffering like that.

People can cry that he was "on assignment" all they want, but unless his assignment was to get a shot of somebody on train tracks, then he's an asshole.


He got lucky that the officers didn't want to confiscate the camera (or at least media card) as evidence of the crime in progress. It would have wound up on Ogrish and other dark areas of the net quickly like they usually do though.
2012-12-05 07:45:23 PM  
1 vote:

RidgeRunner5: He said he was shocked that people nearer to the victim didn't try to help in the 22 seconds before the train struck.

That pisses me off more than anything else in the story.


I've heard that response a lot, and I don't understand it. That's barely enough time to make sure the guy pushing people into the path of an oncoming train isn't still there -- you know, the kind of thing that matters when you're considering going right up to the edge of the train track to completely drop all defenses to the crowd behind you and unbalance yourself toward the track.
2012-12-05 07:43:27 PM  
1 vote:

Birnone: The guy took pictures, so what? It's not like all these other people rushed in to save the guy while the photographer did nothing but take pictures.

So he sold the pictures, what's the big deal with that? That's how he makes a living. As long as the pictures are legal, then I don't see why he gets blamed.

The newspaper made a business decision. They either make money off the front page placement, or they'll lose money due to the public backlash.

All the whining is pointless in the end. I'd rather have controversial pictures published, then I decide for myself the merits of viewing them or not, than have others decide what I can and can't see.


"He was just doing his job" was a shiatty excuse after WWII and it's a shiatty excuse now.
2012-12-05 07:37:59 PM  
1 vote:

Ow! That was my feelings!: This is what I don't understand. I've seen video prior to the push and it shows the victim pretty much in the face of the crazy guy. The crazy guy is screaming at him to go away and leave him alone. Why was the victim basically "poking crazy with a stick"? If an obviously disturbed individual is screaming at you to leave him alone, you might want to leave crazy alone.

 

runningteamflash.com
2012-12-05 07:36:26 PM  
1 vote:
I feel bad for the train operator. I bet he keeps replaying it in his mind.

Not gonna say the photo shouldn't have been published, but they could have at least waited until he was cold and in the ground and not put it on the front page for people not interested in gawking at snuff material.
2012-12-05 07:34:44 PM  
1 vote:

kbronsito: Cybernetic: Can we go back to institutionalizing the mentally ill now?

Sending out the mentally disabled into the streets without a backup plan was not the best idea. But i've read reports and seen photos of the abuses in those places that make the harsh streets look a more welcoming and nicer alternative for these people. We don't need to bring back the institutions. What we need is to provide accesible mental health services in the community. There are studies that indicate that decentalized centers that are not built like prisons and where indigent people with mental illness are allowed the freedom to come and go are actually more cost effective than your traditional institution. These are also less likely to become hot spots of abuse because of the openess/transparency and potentially more likely to actually rehabilitate someone rather than turn them into a ward of the state for their entire existense.


Tell that the compassionate conservative fly-over states which address their mental health issues by handing out one-way bus tickets to California.
2012-12-05 07:33:06 PM  
1 vote:

demonbug: So when is NY going to invest in some safety devices?


they have about 50 deaths a year from being hit by a train and over a billion riders a year, this is a one in 20 million event.
2012-12-05 07:30:08 PM  
1 vote:
I don't blame the photographer. Years ago I was in Afghanistan and taking some video of some kids who were gathering around. This bull was in the background and was creeping up on them and out of nowhere just mauled at the kids, I dropped my camera and ran towards them while the bull rammed this little girl with his horns and flew her up in the air. She somersaulted through the air before landing and began crying but after a few minutes she was allright. Most of the other kids just laughed. I still have the video, but it doesn't show any of the incident happening.

Since then I've realized one important rule: always, always, keep the camera running.
2012-12-05 07:24:33 PM  
1 vote:

duenor: I think it's complete bulls**** that Bloomberg is making it sound like the victim got what he deserved: "He tried to break up a fight and paid for it with his life." Comments like that are what encourage people to do nothing when someone needs help - which is exactly what those fine citizens did.


No it isn't, as I said before it's called diffusion of responsibility. A term to describe the phenomenon of people just watching everything unfold instead of doing something about it.
2012-12-05 07:18:49 PM  
1 vote:
So when is NY going to invest in some safety devices?
2012-12-05 07:16:28 PM  
1 vote:
When I first saw this this morning, the moral question of the photographer not helping the guy didn't cross my mind. I actually thought it was a hell of a photo. Made me actually want to read the post which doesn't happen so there's your reason for them publishing it. Then I turned on the radio and hear all this faux outrage over this photographer. I mean yeah in our fantasy superhero head of course we'd save him but people aren't superheroes and generally crappy especially when they're in groups. My opinion on this now is how interested it is that we always act surprised when we see how shiatty individual humans are to each are and are ENTERTAINED by this astonishment. Clean the tracks, lock up the murderer and try to do something good with your day.
2012-12-05 07:13:28 PM  
1 vote:
I think it's complete bulls**** that Bloomberg is making it sound like the victim got what he deserved: "He tried to break up a fight and paid for it with his life." Comments like that are what encourage people to do nothing when someone needs help - which is exactly what those fine citizens did.

Remember, if you ever fall down into the track... run AWAY FROM THE ENTRANCE. keep running until it's easy to get up or you can find one of those alcoves to hide in.
2012-12-05 07:04:58 PM  
1 vote:
All the biatching about Reagan and the mental institutions. Do you not remember O'Connor v. Donaldson ?
2012-12-05 06:53:03 PM  
1 vote:
I know some subway systems in other parts of the world have at least a gated partition along side the track. I can't understand why that hasn't been implemented as a safety measure long time ago. At least start the heavy used stations.
2012-12-05 06:31:06 PM  
1 vote:

Giant Clown Shoe: The_Bends: ya, they need to put them about every 5-10 feet apparently. Is it just me or is this obvious?

Obvious that every moron that drops a quarter off the platform is going to adventure down to retrieve it? One step forward, two steps back.


oops, should have previewed my post, meant that many ladders are impossible, and incredibly stupid..
2012-12-05 06:30:39 PM  
1 vote:

Giant Clown Shoe: The_Bends: ya, they need to put them about every 5-10 feet apparently. Is it just me or is this obvious?

Obvious that every moron that drops a quarter off the platform is going to adventure down to retrieve it? One step forward, two steps back.


So adding more ladders makes it less safe? I guess we should get rid of air bags so people will drive more carefully as well?
2012-12-05 06:26:41 PM  
1 vote:

The_Bends: ya, they need to put them about every 5-10 feet apparently. Is it just me or is this obvious?


Obvious that every moron that drops a quarter off the platform is going to adventure down to retrieve it? One step forward, two steps back.
2012-12-05 06:23:01 PM  
1 vote:

tenpoundsofcheese: rufus-t-firefly: RidgeRunner5: Phoenix_M: RidgeRunner5: He said he was shocked that people nearer to the victim didn't try to help in the 22 seconds before the train struck.

That pisses me off more than anything else in the story.

You would have had two dead people the one on the track and the one decapitated by the train. If the Asian guy was in sound mind he would have ducked into the crawl space under the platform.

It's blatant hypocrisy, though. He's admonishing people for not doing anything, while he did nothing.

He took a photo and got paid.

That's TWO things.

citation that he specifically got paid for that photo?


He worked as a photog for the post
2012-12-05 06:20:09 PM  
1 vote:
A picture(s) were taken, and the result is a great deal of debate. Like "Falling Man" at WTC on 911, the picture means something more and more as time goes by. It may have multiple meanings to different people.
That being said, and fairly sure that the photog was not in a position to help, I believe he did the right thing, and that the picture does have meaning.
If it were me on that track, I don't think I would be against the picture being published.
Sometimes when on the GO train here in SW Ontario, we get a delay due to "an accident" or such on the tracks, or a delay on the subway due to an "investigation". Someone has died. No one sees that person, no one really talks about it, and we all shift uncomfortably knowing that someone is gone and we probably won't hear their story or know their name.
I think that the victim was going to die (unless someone closer could have helped) whether the picture was taken or not. The people who fled will see this picture and live with that. All of us now know more than we would have if the picture hadn't been published. These are the pictures that make the biggest difference in the world. Good or bad, they make us think, and even yell at each other. Yeah, if it were me, I would be glad that the picture was taken. My last moments counted. Maybe they make someone more aware, maybe they shine a light on the homeless man who has mental problems, or maybe they just pissed off some farkers that had some opinions as well.
My 2 cents.
2012-12-05 06:14:15 PM  
1 vote:
How does flashing the motorman help? All that does is blind him so he can't see what is going on.
2012-12-05 06:02:43 PM  
1 vote:

Komplex: Photographers are the biggest assholes in the world.

When they aren't farking up your shopping by taking pictures at the green market, they are exploiting people in moments of weakness for "their art."

Riding the subway in the evening a few months ago, a mother and her two young children (5~9 years old) got on. There were plenty of seats available, but the mother forced both kids to stand. After a few stops (still with empty seats) the younger girl started to fall asleep on her feet.

This hipster sitting next to me starts to take a picture of the girl with her iphone without the mother's knowledge. I give her a dirty look. She ignores me and continues to snap away in that sleazy surreptitious way.

The family get off, and I tell the hipster that it was a sleazy thing to take the photo of a child without the parent's or child's permission or knowledge.

She defensively told me that "It's OK, I'm a photographer." I screamed at her "NO IT'S NOT! you violated that child's dignity." She apologize, said she was going to delete the photos and got off at the next station.

/csb


I'll take pictures of anything I want. Some of my best work has been done immediately before the very strong objection of the person I just shot. I won't delete anything and I'll use my work in any way I want.

If you don't want your picture taken stay home.

Btw, you're lucky it was some hipster girl. On most big city mass transit you would've been told to suck a cock and pepper sprayed.

/mind your business
//the next time I see a mother neglecting her kids on a train or bus and shoot it I'll think of you
2012-12-05 05:59:20 PM  
1 vote:

thorthor: Glendale: thorthor: Not interested in flame war over photojournalism, I have an honest question. I don't live in a city, and have only ridden a subway train 2 or 3 times, but I wonder why they cant have a wall/barrier of some kind with doors that line up and open when the train stops. Wouldn't that stop things like this from happening? Just curious. Is it possible or am I missing something?

Some cities do, NYC isn't one of them.

Wow, considering that NYC was the first subway system in the world, it seems that they would at least try to make it the best also. I know politics, .


Logistics

NYC subways are a couple different subway systems cobbled together they don't all use the same trains or the same number of cars so it ill never match up since all the stations are not the same length.

Just keep two steps back from the edge of the platform, there is no ribbon to be the first one on the subway car.

Link
2012-12-05 05:48:32 PM  
1 vote:

PreMortem: The guy is a known nut case panhandler. Therefore, lock his mentally deficient ass in a cage for the rest of his life.

/Thanks Reagan!


fate could change in your life making you too a homeless panhandler. a mere trip down the stairs, a 5MPH fender bender or a slip in the shower could render you mentally deficient. be thankful for the blessings you have while you're busy pissing on those less fortunate.

poor Ronald Reagan was an empty-headed pretty face hungry for fame and fortune who actually thought he was surrounded by friends giving him good advice. that poor bastard was the Sarah Palin of his day times 10, hungry for attention and the want to be in front of a camera. pity him and shame on those who manipulated him. Americans really took it up the ass during that administration thanks to those who were really pulling the marionette strings. what a shame.
2012-12-05 05:39:29 PM  
1 vote:
I can understand why people were hesitant to help the guy. Sometimes, you don't know what the jackoff next to you is going to do.

For example, riding the subway in the evening a few months ago, a mother and her two young children (5~9 years old) got on. There were plenty of seats available, but the mother forced both kids to stand. After a few stops (still with empty seats) the younger girl started to fall asleep on her feet.

I thought it was potentially child abuse that might need to be reported to the authorities, so I start to take a picture of the girl with my iphone without the mother's knowledge. Suddenly, the douchebag next to me gives me a dirty look. I ignore him and continue to snap away to get evidence.

The family gets off, and suddenly, this jackass next to me tells me that it was a sleazy thing to take the photo of a child without the parent's or child's permission or knowledge.

I tried to tell him that it's okay, because I was photographing them to notify the authorities about the potential abuse, and this asshat interrupts me and screams "NO IT'S NOT! you violated that child's dignity." I apologized, said I was going to delete the photos and got off at the next station.

/csb
2012-12-05 05:38:15 PM  
1 vote:

PreMortem: The guy is a known nut case panhandler. Therefore, lock his mentally deficient ass in a cage for the rest of his life.

/Thanks Reagan!


Why are you blaming Reagan? Was he one of the many democrats who voted to stop appropriating money to the hospitals?
2012-12-05 05:21:45 PM  
1 vote:

toraque: BinderWoman: According to the NY Post, the suspect is being charged with 2nd degree murder and 'depraved 'indifference'.

Wait, it's illegal to be depraved?

Aw, crap.


He's only depraved on account of being deprived
2012-12-05 05:18:44 PM  
1 vote:

PreMortem: borg: PreMortem: The guy is a known nut case panhandler. Therefore, lock his mentally deficient ass in a cage for the rest of his life.

/Thanks Reagan!

Reagan was the Governor of California not New York and the laws that closed the mental institutions in California were signed in to law by the out going governor Pat Brown not Reagan.
kendelrio:
Don't be comin in hear with all those fancy "facts" and reasonable dis-curse! Donchoo know this hyear I'd Fark? We don't cotton to high falutin folk like you round these parts!

/read in a Huck Finn voice

Reagan was also President of the United States, which includes New York, when he signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, repealing the Mental Health Systems Act.

From the Wiki:

"In 1975 Congress passed an Act requiring community mental health centers to provide aftercare services to all patients in the hopes of improving recovery rates. In 1980, just five years later, Congress passed the Mental Health Systems Act, which provided federal funding for ongoing support and development of community mental health programs.[5] This Act strengthened the connection between federal, state, and local governments with regards to funding for community mental health services. It was the final result of a long series of recommendations by Jimmy Carter's Mental Health Commission.[4] Despite this apparent progress, just a year after the Mental Health Systems Act was passed, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 was passed. The Omnibus Act was passed by the efforts of the Reagan administration as an effort to reduce domestic spending. The Act rescinded a large amount of the legislation just passed, and the legislation that was not rescinded was almost entirely revamped. It effectively ended federal funding of community treatment for the mentally ill, shifting the burden entirely to individual state governments.[7] Federal funding was now replaced by granting smaller amounts of money to the individual states.[8]"


...


Gee, if only there had been other Presidents and Congresses since then that could have rectified the situation.
2012-12-05 05:11:47 PM  
1 vote:
borg: PreMortem: The guy is a known nut case panhandler. Therefore, lock his mentally deficient ass in a cage for the rest of his life.

/Thanks Reagan!

Reagan was the Governor of California not New York and the laws that closed the mental institutions in California were signed in to law by the out going governor Pat Brown not Reagan.

kendelrio:
Don't be comin in hear with all those fancy "facts" and reasonable dis-curse! Donchoo know this hyear I'd Fark? We don't cotton to high falutin folk like you round these parts!

/read in a Huck Finn voice


Reagan was also President of the United States, which includes New York, when he signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, repealing the Mental Health Systems Act.

From the Wiki:

"In 1975 Congress passed an Act requiring community mental health centers to provide aftercare services to all patients in the hopes of improving recovery rates. In 1980, just five years later, Congress passed the Mental Health Systems Act, which provided federal funding for ongoing support and development of community mental health programs.[5] This Act strengthened the connection between federal, state, and local governments with regards to funding for community mental health services. It was the final result of a long series of recommendations by Jimmy Carter's Mental Health Commission.[4] Despite this apparent progress, just a year after the Mental Health Systems Act was passed, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 was passed. The Omnibus Act was passed by the efforts of the Reagan administration as an effort to reduce domestic spending. The Act rescinded a large amount of the legislation just passed, and the legislation that was not rescinded was almost entirely revamped. It effectively ended federal funding of community treatment for the mentally ill, shifting the burden entirely to individual state governments.[7] Federal funding was now replaced by granting smaller amounts of money to the individual states.[8]"

/fancy facts indeed
//read in a JFK voice
2012-12-05 05:09:27 PM  
1 vote:
Ki-Suck Han

What is that some Star Wars fan fiction? And who's "Ki"? Lucas is getting lazy with these character names.
2012-12-05 05:06:36 PM  
1 vote:
I don't understand the hate on the photographer either. He was a professional doing his job. The far bigger @ssholes are the editors at "The New York Post" who ran the picture in the paper (on the front page no less), and maybe the other bystanders on the platform who didn't even try to pull the man up off of the train tracks.

Years ago, I was a general assignment reporter for a small-town newspaper in Zanesville, Ohio. Our police beat reporter got a picture of the cops pulling a drowning victim out of the river. He'd been missing for several weeks and this was in the full heat of July so the corpse was thoroughly bloated and incredibly disgusting by the time it was recovered. Given the grisly nature of the photograph and the fact that ID on the victim's body showed he was a local man with family in the area, we took a newsroom vote on whether to publish the picture. It would have been a news "scoop" from the journalistic point of view, but our vote was unanimous to not put that image in the paper. And not even the police reporter who took the shot ever complained that his work wasn't used.

Some things don't need to be seen. A description of what happened is enough.

\CSB?
2012-12-05 04:58:19 PM  
1 vote:
As a photographer, I can say that you folks just don't get it.
We capture moments, thats all.
I tend to carry my camera everywhere I go for just this reason. You see something unusual, newsworthy, whatever. You snap the pic.
The photo will probably be used to help put this animal away.
Gotta go to my OTHER job now.
2012-12-05 04:57:41 PM  
1 vote:

RidgeRunner5: He said he was shocked that people nearer to the victim didn't try to help in the 22 seconds before the train struck.

That pisses me off more than anything else in the story.


You would have had two dead people the one on the track and the one decapitated by the train. If the Asian guy was in sound mind he would have ducked into the crawl space under the platform.
2012-12-05 04:55:09 PM  
1 vote:

Cybernetic: Can we go back to institutionalizing the mentally ill now?


Sending out the mentally disabled into the streets without a backup plan was not the best idea. But i've read reports and seen photos of the abuses in those places that make the harsh streets look a more welcoming and nicer alternative for these people. We don't need to bring back the institutions. What we need is to provide accesible mental health services in the community. There are studies that indicate that decentalized centers that are not built like prisons and where indigent people with mental illness are allowed the freedom to come and go are actually more cost effective than your traditional institution. These are also less likely to become hot spots of abuse because of the openess/transparency and potentially more likely to actually rehabilitate someone rather than turn them into a ward of the state for their entire existense.
2012-12-05 04:53:30 PM  
1 vote:
He said he was shocked that people nearer to the victim didn't try to help in the 22 seconds before the train struck.

That pisses me off more than anything else in the story.
2012-12-05 04:48:48 PM  
1 vote:
NY P.O.S.
And from the headline, I kinda hoped the guy literally threw himself in front of a bus.

/this story is more indicative of the rot in Murdoch's empire than anything else
2012-12-05 04:46:56 PM  
1 vote:

Ow! That was my feelings!: This is what I don't understand. I've seen video prior to the push and it shows the victim pretty much in the face of the crazy guy. The crazy guy is screaming at him to go away and leave him alone. Why was the victim basically "poking crazy with a stick"? If an obviously disturbed individual is screaming at you to leave him alone, you might want to leave crazy alone.


And this is why I honestly dont think he will go to jail. Maybe a mental institution for a while.
2012-12-05 04:46:30 PM  
1 vote:
Thanks for the NYC story, Seattle PI
2012-12-05 04:44:24 PM  
1 vote:
This is why NYC needs to be nuked from orbit.
2012-12-05 04:40:40 PM  
1 vote:

PreMortem: The guy is a known nut case panhandler. Therefore, lock his mentally deficient ass in a cage for the rest of his life.

/Thanks Reagan!


Reagan was the Governor of California not New York and the laws that closed the mental institutions in California were signed in to law by the out going governor Pat Brown not Reagan.
2012-12-05 03:42:23 PM  
1 vote:

SlothB77: scottydoesntknow: Glad they caught the guy, and he's a much bigger villain than anyone else in the story, but:

He [Abbassi] told NBC's "Today" show Wednesday that he wasn't trying to take a photo of the man, but was trying to alert the motorman to what was going on by flashing his camera.

even if that is the case, the photographer still didn't need to sell the shots to a newspaper, and The Post sure as hell didn't need to publish them on the front page of it's trashpaper.

We're not doing this thread again, are we?


you could have done something to steer the thread in a different direction and save it, but instead you just posted to memorialize that it was happening. honestly, you're the real monster in all of this.
2012-12-05 03:09:57 PM  
1 vote:

scottydoesntknow: People lost all sympathy for him when he decided to sell the photos to make a quick buck. If he was really a stand-up guy he wouldn't have taken the photo to some trashpaper and have it splashed over the front page for all to see.


He was on assignment for The Post and contractually the person you are on assignment for usually has right of first refusal. Has he been working for the Daily News, the NYT or the WaPo we would be having the same conversation. (Though likely not about a Front Page photo) He took the photo to the Post, with the police, turned them over to the Photo Editor and the editorial staff made the decision to publish. They paid him for the work, but he didn't go running out waving his memory card to a group of the highest bidders, he was WORKING for the NYP at the time this occurred.
2012-12-05 02:15:06 PM  
1 vote:

Snarfangel: Naeem Davis, 30, was taken into custody for questioning Tuesday

"What's your name?"
"Naeem."
"That's right, what's your name?"
"Naeem."
"That's what I asked!"
"That's my name."
"What's your name?"
"No, Naeem is."
"Your name is...what?"
"No, Naeem."
*sigh* "Let's try this again. Give me your name."
"That's what I'm telling you. Naeem Davis."
"So, Davis is your first name?"
"No, Davis is my last name."
"And your first name?"
"Naeem."
"That's what I'm asking you!"
...


www.mentalfloss.com

Approves of this exchange. Or ... well....maybe not.
2012-12-05 01:59:23 PM  
1 vote:
The guy is a known nut case panhandler. Therefore, lock his mentally deficient ass in a cage for the rest of his life.

/Thanks Reagan!
2012-12-05 01:48:33 PM  
1 vote:

Snarfangel: Naeem Davis, 30, was taken into custody for questioning Tuesday

"What's your name?"
"Naeem."
"That's right, what's your name?"
"Naeem."
"That's what I asked!"
"That's my name."
"What's your name?"
"No, Naeem is."
"Your name is...what?"
"No, Naeem."
*sigh* "Let's try this again. Give me your name."
"That's what I'm telling you. Naeem Davis."
"So, Davis is your first name?"
"No, Davis is my last name."
"And your first name?"
"Naeem."
"That's what I'm asking you!"
...


www.searchenginepeople.com
2012-12-05 01:45:39 PM  
1 vote:

impaler: was trying to alert the motorman to what was going on by flashing his camera.

Camera flashes are the universal sign for "man stuck on subway track."


Yup, and while he was being heroic and alerting the driver to something he wouldn't have been able to avoid anyway, he managed to line up a really nice shot!
2012-12-05 01:18:06 PM  
1 vote:
was trying to alert the motorman to what was going on by flashing his camera.

Camera flashes are the universal sign for "man stuck on subway track."
 
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