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(Fox News)   The latest atheist outrage? People watching "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown"   (radio.foxnews.com) divider line 1010
    More: Stupid, Charlie Brown, people watching, Christmas Is..., atheists  
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11755 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2012 at 10:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-05 12:20:19 PM  

IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?

A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.


It's not the physical structure of churches that are evil and scary, it is the values, ignorance, and disregard for the founding principles of this nation held by the people that fill them which frightens those of us who can think for ourselves.
 
2012-12-05 12:20:36 PM  

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: Is it telling them they're ... not as good as Christians?

Yes. The Christians get a special treat about their holiday myths. No one else does. Giving one group a reward while withholding similar rewards from other groups is the core of marginalization.

R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

Which at least is overwhelmingly secular in its approach to Christmas. It would be much more acceptable than Charlie Brown.

Part of the overall confusion, I think, is that America has two Christmases. There is Christmas as a solstice celebration, with decorated trees and the exchange of gifts, deeply steeped in Nordic mythology but more-or-less secular. Then there is Christmas as the Christian religious holiday. The former is suitable for celebration by public institutions, but the latter is not.

//The MST3K of Santa Claus and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians are Christmas traditions in my house.


Same here. I don't think covering it up with stuff like "Happy Holidays" is the right way either, all solstice traditions should be highlighted and respected IMHO.

It's a balance really.
 
2012-12-05 12:21:00 PM  
Wait a second...

What are the chances this guy actually purchased the play's script and the rights to perform it, and isn't infringing on copyright and trademarks?
 
2012-12-05 12:21:29 PM  

Tenatra: Why didn't you say someone should give me an ass beating?


Because it is synonymous you farking retard.
 
2012-12-05 12:21:34 PM  

citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.


I hear that church basements are sometimes used as polling stations during elections. This is an outrage. Separation of church and state means never having to set foot in a building where religious services are held
 
2012-12-05 12:21:51 PM  

WhippingBoy: If your Atheism is so weak that your child will be converted by going to a church, then you've failed as a parent.


If my tax dollars are stretched so tight that the elementary kids are holding a garage sale to raise money for school supplies *and* the school pays to send them on a field trip to a church sponsored event, I will have failed as a tax-paying parent if I don't stop it or at least complain.
 
2012-12-05 12:21:54 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

Just because something is "optional" doesn't mean that it was ever okay for it to be suggested in the first place.

Why can't the kids be shown the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it have to be at a church?


Not the movie. A live-action play using the script for the show. The church I went to as a kid did it for their christmas pageant at least once.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:02 PM  

doyner: Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.


There's a whole lot of intolerance going around.

When you have to make the case that your beliefs are good because every other belief is the domain of assholes and sub-humans, perhaps you don't really understand your own belief system. Or maybe you just don't believe in it.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:13 PM  
Let's just all agree that this is the worst turd in the Christmas TV punchbowl ...

Star Wars: The Holiday Special Part I  

/second Life Day referance for me on fark today
/Bobba Fett rules
 
2012-12-05 12:22:39 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?


I feel it's important to call attention to the opinions of people who go on and on about how intolerant religious people are.

Especially when they're either saying "I guarantee that most of them would complain if their kid had to go to a mosque" or what justtray said. Ah, it's good that they're so above the stupidity and intolerance which are only learned in religion.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:57 PM  

meat0918: Wait a second...

What are the chances this guy actually purchased the play's script and the rights to perform it, and isn't infringing on copyright and trademarks?


... that's a good point. I just looked it up and apparently the rights to put on the play aren't even available for purchase.
 
2012-12-05 12:23:09 PM  
You know what people are totally over-looking? The kids were probably just looking at this whole thing as a fun field trip to get them out of school and math for the day. Then the damn adults had to go and ruin it. Now they have to play dodge ball in gym and do extra reading to catch up on what they miss.

Damn adults.
 
2012-12-05 12:24:06 PM  

citoriman: It's not the physical structure of churches that are evil and scary, it is the values, ignorance, and disregard for the founding principles of this nation held by the people that fill them which frightens those of us who can think for ourselves.


And yet you're afraid of them even when they're not full of those people. Also, you seem to be very confused with the difference between what the Constitution says and your own interpretation of "separation of church and state."
 
2012-12-05 12:25:03 PM  

t3knomanser: So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?


this was every second tuesday, in my upstate NY public elementary school. all the catholics would hop on a bus and go off to "church school" for the afternoon, and the rest of us would sit around and draw shiat on the desks for three hours.
 
2012-12-05 12:25:08 PM  
I think the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers needs a collective cockpunch. It's Charlie Brown for Christ sakes.
 
2012-12-05 12:25:18 PM  

Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?


Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Argument over.
 
2012-12-05 12:25:25 PM  

Epicedion: meat0918: Wait a second...

What are the chances this guy actually purchased the play's script and the rights to perform it, and isn't infringing on copyright and trademarks?

... that's a good point. I just looked it up and apparently the rights to put on the play aren't even available for purchase.


Hmm. Perhaps the pastor did not think his cunning plan through then.
 
2012-12-05 12:26:16 PM  

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.

Good. Glad you agree then this shouldn't happen. Whether or not you personally would be bothered by it is irelevant. It's a clear violation of separation of church and state.

I look forward to the field trip about how Charlie Brown becomes a muslim terrorists because of the actions of the West on his people. I'm sure Fox News wouldn't oppose that because it's a teaching opportunity.

Just face it, you were wrong, and your opinion on the matter is based purely in religious dogma.

What religious dogma? I'm an atheist, and atheism is not a religion.

The dogma that it's okay because it's Christian, because it's the religion you're familiar with and surrounded by.

I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

LOL, I'm a troll. Good one. What next, my mom is so fat when she sits around the house.......she sits around the house?


wait....wait... i have a better one

Your BVDs are soooo big, when you put them on, they spell B-O-U-L-E-V-A-R-D

of course that one is as old as dust too...

/Man... I feel old now
 
2012-12-05 12:26:31 PM  
Maybe this guy just wanted to troll Fark.

Seems like he succeeded.
 
2012-12-05 12:26:39 PM  

meat0918: Hmm. Perhaps the pastor did not think his cunning plan through then.


No, he probably canceled the play because he didn't want to get sued by whoever owns Peanuts now.
 
2012-12-05 12:27:01 PM  

mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....

My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.

It's perfectly logical. Why risk all this supposed eternal hell fire when i can say one sentence and move on with my life? I don't go to church. I don't waste time in prayer. I do celebrate xmas with my family because I feel it's more productive to play along and enjoy my loved ones vs. spending hours over fruitless arguments.

I didn't address your Santa Clause example because I already explained my viewpoint on filling the gaps with faith. I don't "believe" in anything. There is no reason to believe. I can't prove Santa doesn't exists, but I can prove that a specific child's presents didn't come from a fat guy in a red suit that squeezed them down the chi ...


I don't care what others believe. Be as stupid as you want. You've done a great job here showing it. Just don't spread your ignorant views to anyone within public school or anywhere else covered by the umbrella of church and state.

Now go on with your simple life.
 
2012-12-05 12:27:02 PM  

justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.


Prove that.
 
2012-12-05 12:28:52 PM  

SubjectVerb: citoriman: xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

Did you consider the fact that because of the atheists' religious beliefs, they are being forced to exclude themselves from a day of PUBLIC education?

By your logic, it would be OK to have public school taught in a church, by a priest, from the bible, because parents have the option to homeschool.

Atheists don't have religious beliefs. That's the definition of an atheist.


Sorry, I was trying to put it in terms even a religious person could understand. They aren't keen on thinking outside the box with regard to religious beliefs, I've found. Some people literally cannot understand how "religious beliefs" are something that a person can be without.
 
2012-12-05 12:29:22 PM  
Wow. Long thread!

img38.imageshack.us
(This was in a flyer I just got from a local hardware store)
 
2012-12-05 12:31:17 PM  

hdhale: The cancellation came as the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers told television station KATV they had received legal advice on pursuing a possible lawsuit against the Little Rock School District.

The second most ironically named organization ever. The first and still the champion is the Committee of Public Safety, who during the French Revolution sent thousands of people to the guillotine.

If you are standing on your atheist soap box and refuse to allow a child to see "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown", it is my fondest hope that any children you have grow up to despise you, have you placed in a nursing home before your time because they decide you are "inconvenient", and that they be a bitter disappointment to you and refuse to visit you on Sundays because it's "church day".

/in other words, get the farking corn cob out of your ass...you should be so lucky to have kids that give a fark about people and put their friends before commercialism, whatever their belief in God, Jesus, or whatever holy spirit moves them


This has got to be the most pants-on-head retarded comment I've read on FARK. And that includes any link to American thinker.

2.bp.blogspot.com

cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-12-05 12:32:16 PM  
As Jon Stewart has pointed out....shut the fark up about the war on Christmas. There is none and if there is one, than the fact that I had to listen to shiatty christmas songs today at work, a solid 3 weeks before Christmas, means that Christmas is winning the shiat out of this "war".
/I love Christmas but shut the fark up about it until the 20th or so. By time Christmas does come I'm ready to stab a caroller with a candy cane.
 
2012-12-05 12:33:07 PM  

Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.


Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?
 
2012-12-05 12:34:11 PM  
I'm not a believer. I love that show and we watch the cartoon every year, but I'd have real and significant problems with letting my own 5th & 1st grade girls go on a school-managed trip to a church.

Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy. Not to mention whatever treatment she gets from her peers afterward for being so decidedly separated from them based on faith. And I know for a fact there're other non-believing, Jewish, Hindu, and Muslim kids at our elementary school; what would they do?

The school could do anything; take the kids to see any sort of Christmas or holiday show. I'd even be fine with the same Charlie Brown Christmas play. Just not one at a church or run by a church.

I truly have no problem with religion, Christians, or Christianity. Almost every Christian I meet is a fine person. The ideals of Christianity are wonderful. I just want my kids to be able to go to public school without being proselytized to by any religion. Is that not too much to ask?
 
2012-12-05 12:34:50 PM  

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.


Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.
 
2012-12-05 12:35:05 PM  
REMEMBER THE REASON FOR THE SEASON, FOLKS!

img214.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-05 12:36:21 PM  
Why isn't there a zero tolerance policy of religion in school? If it's banned, ban it.

Either there is a separation of church and state or there isn't.
Then we wouldn't be having this repeated discussions.

But this whole gray area shiat only resurrects the rhetoric between the two sides each and every time this issue comes up.
 
2012-12-05 12:37:24 PM  
Recap for those not paying attention

Apparently the rights to put on a live performance of this particular play don't exist (as the play, in any official way, does not exist), per the Peanuts website, under "Special Requests." That means the church (or anyone) putting on the performance would be a huge copyright violation, and fines for that sort of thing are pretty severe.

I'm rather interested in what's going to happen now that this little church show has gotten some national attention.
 
2012-12-05 12:38:35 PM  

mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....

My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.

It's perfectly logical. Why risk all this supposed eternal hell fire when i can say one sentence and move on with my life? I don't go to church. I don't waste time in prayer. I do celebrate xmas with my family because I feel it's more productive to play along and enjoy my loved ones vs. spending hours over fruitless arguments.

I didn't address your Santa Clause example because I already explained my viewpoint on filling the gaps with faith. I don't "believe" in anything. There is no reason to believe. I can't prove Santa doesn't exists, but I can prove that a specific child's presents didn't come from a fat guy in a red suit that squeez ...


You keep mistaking "showing hypocrisy within your own beliefs" with "religious intolerence."

I wish I could say I don't know why.

Explain to me again why you think Santa Claus doesn't exist, but God does.
 
2012-12-05 12:39:24 PM  

citoriman: Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.

Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?


In the South, people take religion very seriously. You'd be surprised the number of times I've heard of it happening. Not all parents would be willing to swallow their pride. That said, my family knew this girl's family really well, so they didn't actually have a problem with it. Now, at my H. S. graduation, our valedictorian didn't give her speech because it was held in a Catholic church. The salutatorian read the speech after reading their own. Her parents wanted to know why graduation couldn't be held in the school gym, and when the principal told her it wasn't big enough to fit all the graduates, their guests, and the school's administration, they weren't satisfied with that answer and didn't let her walk. She still got her diploma, but she missed the dean of students falling on their ass during the processional.
 
2012-12-05 12:39:56 PM  

GregInIndy: Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy.


well, you would be the bad guy by preventing your kids from seeing a live action rendition of a show you love merely because it is being performed in a church.
The show itself quotes the Bible. It talks about the birth of Jesus Christ as the important thing to the Christmas season. The fact that you're cool with your kids hearing that but not if it happens in a church is mind boggling.
 
2012-12-05 12:40:23 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Maybe those people need to pull the sticks out of their asses and lighten up...If I had kids, and the school took them to see a play where at one point in the play, a Bible verse was recited, you know what I'd do?


First, there's a difference between referencing or using excerpts from the Bible in a social, historical, or literature context, and proselytism. The first is permissible under the scope of the First Amendment; the second is not.

Second, it's not a matter of religion. It's a matter of understanding the rule of law, honoring it, obeying the law and fostering in kids and teens a respect for the rule of law. Our society has seen first to erect a wall of separation between the church and state, and moreover enumerate it in the highest law of the land, and the use of tax dollars for the purpose of proselytism is not permissible by the word of that highest law.

What lesson is being taught our kids when they experience firsthand proselytism in direct violation of the First Amendment? The highest law of the land itself can be ignored if you simply don't like it? That privileged classes are free to violate the law without accountability? That majorities are entitled to higher-order "rights" than minorities? That individuals ought not speak out when the law is being violated, by a privileged class, majority, or individual? That the only laws that matter are the ones that dictate and punish criminality?

That's especially pertinent within Christianity itself.

1 John 3:4-6: Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Matthew 18:18-20: Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.

Romans 13:1-7: Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


If Christians can't even obey the tenets of their own religion which instruct them to obey the laws of man, what credibility have they when it comes to discussing the laws of man?
 
2012-12-05 12:40:25 PM  

IAmRight: citoriman: It's not the physical structure of churches that are evil and scary, it is the values, ignorance, and disregard for the founding principles of this nation held by the people that fill them which frightens those of us who can think for ourselves.

And yet you're afraid of them even when they're not full of those people. Also, you seem to be very confused with the difference between what the Constitution says and your own interpretation of "separation of church and state."


Yes, us non-relgious are sooooo afraid of empty churches. That's what this is all about lol. Congratulations, you have achieved the rhetorical level of the crazy guy on the corner. So many statements, so little facts, critical thinking, evidence. Could it be that you are unable to formulate thoughts of your own, and are just desperately trying to project pre-conceived conceptions on others?
 
2012-12-05 12:41:25 PM  

skullkrusher: GregInIndy: Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy.

well, you would be the bad guy by preventing your kids from seeing a live action rendition of a show you love merely because it is being performed in a church.
The show itself quotes the Bible. It talks about the birth of Jesus Christ as the important thing to the Christmas season. The fact that you're cool with your kids hearing that but not if it happens in a church is mind boggling.


cognitive dissonance at it's finest...
 
2012-12-05 12:41:35 PM  

DaCaptain19: The atheist f*cks are more annoying than the pastor of Westboro Baptist!

what a bunch of sand-in-the-vagina pussy f*cks.

I'm not Catholic but I don't shiat my pants every time I see the Pope on the news.

Atheists SHOULD have the most civic-minded, volunteering, charity-based values. After all, no higher power - all we got is each other.

Instead, they poop their panties over a cartoon that is over 47 years old. Instead, they're bigger dicks to their own (you know...people?), on a daily basis, than ANY other faith-based belief system (because oh yeah, atheism is faith-based).

Jeebus, are you atheist f*ckers too lazy to use the remote? Because there are a LOT of TV programs that are on at any one point in time. Or try something more mentally stimulating like...reading, or have a hobby other than biatching about the irrelevant and watching TV shows you hate... 

Just a little suggestion for those whose stick up their arse has a stick up its arse.


You know how I know you DNRTFA?
 
2012-12-05 12:41:43 PM  

that bosnian sniper: What lesson is being taught our kids when they experience firsthand proselytism in direct violation of the First Amendment? The highest law of the land itself can be ignored if you simply don't like it? That privileged classes are free to violate the law without accountability? That majorities are entitled to higher-order "rights" than minorities? That individuals ought not speak out when the law is being violated, by a privileged class, majority, or individual? That the only laws that matter are the ones that dictate and punish criminality?

 
2012-12-05 12:42:12 PM  

justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.

Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.


You didn't answer my request. I want you to prove to me, with my own words used in this thread, where I said I would not be okay with this being held in a mosque or some other religious structure. You said that I would not be okay with that, and I want you to prove it. People opposing a mosque near Ground Zero has nothing to do with this thread, the subject of this thread, or anything that I said since you're personally challenging me.

Do it or shut the fark up.
 
2012-12-05 12:43:27 PM  

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.

Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.

You didn't answer my request. I want you to prove to me, with my own words used in this thread, where I said I would not be okay with this being held in a mosque or some other religious structure. You said that I would not be okay with that, and I want you to prove it. People opposing a mosque near Ground Zero has nothing to do with this thread, the subject of this thread, or anything that I said since you're personally challenging me.

Do it or shut the fark up.


You're asking people to prove the unprovable. Because, quite frankly, this is the internet. You can do one thing, and say another. I highly doubt that, even if you would be offended, you'd admit to it anyway.
 
2012-12-05 12:43:38 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.

my...you're quite the asshole, aren't ya? Moan all you want, my point was I'm pretty damn sure the same people would throw the same fit over the same farking thing, dickhead.

I'm not an asshole, I'm just somebody who actually read TFA and is commenting on such. If you don't have a counter to my points, that's fine, but going straight to namecalling only tells me how butthurt you are that I touched upon the little details that you chose to leave out completely.


But you sound like an asshole...
 
2012-12-05 12:44:05 PM  
They play the fark out of it on TV and it is available for cheap on DVD. If you want to see it - WATCH IT AT HOME!
 
2012-12-05 12:44:08 PM  
How to put a condom on a cucumber? CHECK
See Charlie Brown Xmas play? NOT
 
2012-12-05 12:44:34 PM  

Epicedion: Recap for those not paying attention

Apparently the rights to put on a live performance of this particular play don't exist (as the play, in any official way, does not exist), per the Peanuts website, under "Special Requests." That means the church (or anyone) putting on the performance would be a huge copyright violation, and fines for that sort of thing are pretty severe.

I'm rather interested in what's going to happen now that this little church show has gotten some national attention.


Given how sue happy the comic strip rights holders typically are, they probably have a letter in the mail to this church.
 
2012-12-05 12:45:53 PM  
F

Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.

Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?

In the South, people take religion very seriously. You'd be surprised the number of times I've heard of it happening. Not all parents would be willing to swallow their pride. That said, my family knew this girl's family really well, so they didn't actually have a problem with it. Now, at my H. S. graduation, our valedictorian didn't give her speech because it was held in a Catholic church. The salutatorian read the speech after reading their own. Her parents wanted to know why graduation couldn't be held in the school gym, and when the principal told her it wasn't big enough to fit all the graduates, their guests, and the school's administration, they weren't satisfied with that answer and didn't let her walk. She still got her diploma, but she missed the dean of students falling on their ass during the processional. ...


Honestly, I think you are just making this all up. First, you said you would know how her parents felt because your parents sat behind hers at the ceremony. Now you say that your family "knew her family really well". Why wouldn't you open with that? Because you are a straight up LIAR.
 
2012-12-05 12:45:57 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: manimal2878: I'm an athiest, but I would have no problem with my kid going on a field trip to observe the customs or holiday traditions of a religious group, if it was presented as an educational opportunity and not a chance to preach at them.

So at what point is Merry Christmas Charlie Brown educational in any way?


I was responding to a post that claimed there was no reason ever to have a field trip to a place of religion, charlie brown is irrelevant.
 
2012-12-05 12:46:09 PM  

Joe Blowme: So when will they repeal it as a national holiday?


It already is for just about everyone in retail. National holidays in the US are a freaking joke. There is no law requiring that they be observed by employers.
 
2012-12-05 12:46:14 PM  
For the rest of this month I'll be able to see (not hear), on the LEDs embedded in the walls of the tunnel leading from Engineering to the main lobby...

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (Bumbles BOUNCE)
Santa Claus is Coming to Town (Burgermeister Meisterburger FTW)
Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (good grief)

\think of the roof display in the movie Deck the Halls
\\same lights
 
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