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(Fox News)   The latest atheist outrage? People watching "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown"   (radio.foxnews.com) divider line 1023
    More: Stupid, Charlie Brown, people watching, Christmas Is..., atheists  
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11745 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2012 at 10:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-05 09:33:01 AM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and goodwill towards men.

.And that's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.
 
2012-12-05 09:36:26 AM
"Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

Non-story, folks. Carving out a few hours from a public school day to take kids to a church to watch a story about how Linus and Charlie Brown are touched by the birth of Christ is clearly over the line.
 
2012-12-05 09:37:14 AM
The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene
 
2012-12-05 09:39:17 AM
......and this is why people hate atheists.
 
2012-12-05 09:41:04 AM
Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.
 
2012-12-05 09:43:02 AM
As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.
 
2012-12-05 09:45:21 AM
Aren't field trips optional?
 
2012-12-05 09:45:42 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?
 
2012-12-05 09:45:54 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.

Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.


Religious people give us plenty of reason to loathe them as well but I have watched that show every year since it came out.
 
2012-12-05 09:49:17 AM
I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.
 
2012-12-05 09:49:58 AM
I watch the Charlie Brown Christmas show every year, and I'm one of those evil atheist types. The objection was that a school was taking a field trip to a church.
 
2012-12-05 09:50:12 AM

minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


Doesn't matter. As soon as you put kids whose parents opted to have them put on a bus paid for by tax dollars, chaperone by teachers paid by tax dollars, and the kids are counted as present on a school day, and thus get federal funds, you are violating the first amendment.
 
2012-12-05 09:51:02 AM

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.
 
2012-12-05 09:51:21 AM

Cythraul: R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.

Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.


So you DO believe?
 
2012-12-05 09:51:42 AM

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Oh good, you're going to pray. I was concerned you were going to do something that could actually accomplish anything.

No public school should be bringing kids to a performance within explicitly proselytizing tone, much less one that includes passages from a religious text presented in anything but a scholarly fashion.
 
2012-12-05 09:51:44 AM

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Truth. The All-Father needs more followers. "To You, Dread Lord, I dedicate this battle-field, this harvest of Men!"
 
2012-12-05 09:54:33 AM

minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


Sure. But the question has nothing to do with the children's or parents' consent or ability to opt out, it has to do with the initiation of state action.

The school couldn't say, "Hey, we're taking a 'field trip' to 'watch' Catholic Mass, but you can opt out if you don't want to go" and have it pass muster.
 
2012-12-05 09:54:47 AM

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


Maybe those people need to pull the sticks out of their asses and lighten up. I'm an atheist. We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship. People are going to believe. You can't do a damn thing about that. It's farking Charlie Brown. It's been a while since I've last seen it, but to my recollection, Jesus or the birth of Jesus is mentioned only once in the entire film.

If I had kids, and the school took them to see a play where at one point in the play, a Bible verse was recited, you know what I'd do? Nothing. That's what I'd do. "Oh no, my children were exposed to a point of view that differs from my own, whatever shall I do?" Children have to learn at some point there's different kinds of people in this world. I'd tell them that while I don't believe in God, lots of other people do, and that's just as okay. It's not going to hurt them. They aren't going to burst into flames and become charcoal briquettes.
 
2012-12-05 09:54:49 AM
This is what it is all about

Still gives me chills
 
2012-12-05 09:56:45 AM

kronicfeld: The school couldn't say, "Hey, we're taking a 'field trip' to 'watch' Catholic Mass, but you can opt out if you don't want to go" and have it pass muster.


The Bible, the Quran, and other religious writings have been studied in public schools for years, with full legal backing. They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.
 
2012-12-05 09:57:02 AM

Coco LaFemme: We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship.


This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?
 
2012-12-05 09:57:10 AM

AbbeySomeone: If you are offended don't let your kids go.


I don't think anyone's offended by the cartoon/play. What they take offense to is the school-sponsored religious activity.
 
2012-12-05 09:57:47 AM

R.A.Danny: They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.


For the purpose of education, yes, but it's a very fuzzy line. A religious studies class could attend a mass, but you couldn't send the entire 5th grade, for example.
 
2012-12-05 10:00:57 AM

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship.

This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?


How is this marginalizing them? Is it telling them they're less than human or not as good as Christians? Is it devaluing their religious beliefs and/or mocking them?
 
2012-12-05 10:01:10 AM

R.A.Danny: The Bible, the Quran, and other religious writings have been studied in public schools for years, with full legal backing. They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.


If they're going to have a scholarly discussion about the religious themes in the play upon returning to school and explore comparative religious education regarding the historical origins of Christmas (including Saturnalia and pagans) and other religions' observances, then of course it is legitimate. Somehow, though, I doubt that is what is happening.
 
2012-12-05 10:01:29 AM

t3knomanser: For the purpose of education, yes, but it's a very fuzzy line. A religious studies class could attend a mass, but you couldn't send the entire 5th grade, for example.


Of course. I wasn't speaking in absolutes.

t3knomanser: This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?


Having served in the USMC I was thankful for the opportunity to see how people worship in many places in the world. Absolutely fascinating.
 
2012-12-05 10:02:39 AM
He said it was clear "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" did not pose a constitutional issue.

"Christmas is a Christian holiday - hence it's name - Christmas," the pastor wrote in his statement. "Our program addresses its origins with light-hearted songs and theatre. The context of the birth of Christ is broadly described in both Old and New Testament texts."


Whooooooooooooooooooosh.
 
2012-12-05 10:02:44 AM

kronicfeld: If they're going to have a scholarly discussion about the religious themes in the play upon returning to school and explore comparative religious education regarding the historical origins of Christmas (including Saturnalia and pagans) and other religions' observances, then of course it is legitimate. Somehow, though, I doubt that is what is happening.


It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians
 
2012-12-05 10:04:52 AM

R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians


You leave Pia Zadora out of this.
 
2012-12-05 10:05:07 AM
I don't see the harm really - Jesus is as real as Santa Claus after all. Most bright kids understand its a big game of make believe and will do fine in college once they are deprogrammed by their marxist socialist hippie professors...
 
2012-12-05 10:08:02 AM

kronicfeld: R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

You leave Pia Zadora out of this.


Lord knows no one ever left anything out of Pia Zadora.
 
2012-12-05 10:09:02 AM

Coco LaFemme: Is it telling them they're ... not as good as Christians?


Yes. The Christians get a special treat about their holiday myths. No one else does. Giving one group a reward while withholding similar rewards from other groups is the core of marginalization.

R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians


Which at least is overwhelmingly secular in its approach to Christmas. It would be much more acceptable than Charlie Brown.

Part of the overall confusion, I think, is that America has two Christmases. There is Christmas as a solstice celebration, with decorated trees and the exchange of gifts, deeply steeped in Nordic mythology but more-or-less secular. Then there is Christmas as the Christian religious holiday. The former is suitable for celebration by public institutions, but the latter is not.

//The MST3K of Santa Claus and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians are Christmas traditions in my house.
 
2012-12-05 10:10:12 AM
hello? yes, this is atheist.

i love a charlie brown christmas. and the biblical content doesn't bother me one bit. it's just as fictional as the rest of the story, but it's sweet in its intent. sometimes people should just STFU and relax.
 
2012-12-05 10:10:39 AM
FTFA: Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip.

Society of Freethinkers, indeed.
 
2012-12-05 10:11:23 AM

FlashHarry: hello? yes, this is atheist.

i love a charlie brown christmas. and the biblical content doesn't bother me one bit. it's just as fictional as the rest of the story, but it's sweet in its intent. sometimes people should just STFU and relax.


Someone forgot to tell these "freethinkers" that they do not have a Constitutional right to not be offended.
 
2012-12-05 10:12:24 AM
At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.
 
2012-12-05 10:13:21 AM

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.
 
2012-12-05 10:14:44 AM

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: Is it telling them they're ... not as good as Christians?

Yes. The Christians get a special treat about their holiday myths. No one else does. Giving one group a reward while withholding similar rewards from other groups is the core of marginalization.


You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required. If you, as a non-Christian, didn't feel comfortable with your child attending a play held in a church.....you didn't send the little snot and all was well. How is a totally voluntary field trip "marginalizing" someone? If every student was forced to attend and then write a report on Christianity, I could see and support the outrage but for fark's sake.....this is people whining for the sake of whining.
 
2012-12-05 10:15:01 AM

xanadian: It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


And why aren't children of other faiths offered a similar field trip? Why is one group given an advantage that other groups are not?
 
2012-12-05 10:15:25 AM

Mugato: At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.


Like Ramada Inn? Why would you do that in a mosque?
 
2012-12-05 10:16:29 AM

xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


Look, I don't think this is particularly egregious and I don't actually have much of a problem with it myself. But I can see why some people might, especially with the statement from the pastor explaining that this is to explain the origins of Christmas. Also, the "Well, you don't have to come" argument doesn't give the school the right to do otherwise impermissible things. It's about school sponsorship, and who wants to be the kid who has to explain to his classmates why he isn't going along with everyone else? If the school took a "field trip" to a megachurch to go see Billy Graham, and made it "optional", it'd still be unconstitutional as hell.
 
2012-12-05 10:16:40 AM

Nabb1: Mugato: At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.

Like Ramada Inn? Why would you do that in a mosque?


Damned racist auto-correct.
 
2012-12-05 10:16:56 AM

Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.


And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?
 
2012-12-05 10:17:13 AM
I was always told that if you don't love baby Jesus, Charlie Brown will kill you in your sleep.
 
2012-12-05 10:18:06 AM

Nabb1: I was always told that if you don't love baby Jesus, Charlie Brown will kill you in your sleep.


I had a cousin that died that way. When they found him, Snoopy was chewing on his entrails.
 
2012-12-05 10:20:11 AM

t3knomanser: Nabb1: I was always told that if you don't love baby Jesus, Charlie Brown will kill you in your sleep.

I had a cousin that died that way. When they found him, Snoopy was chewing on his entrails.


You can only have that football taken away from you so many times before you snap.
 
2012-12-05 10:23:21 AM

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.

And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?


Oh please. Feeble bullsh*t and weak attempt. Charlie Brown can be enjoyed by anyone without a stick up their ass.
I will give you a generous 7/10.
 
2012-12-05 10:27:28 AM

AbbeySomeone: t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.

And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?

Oh please. Feeble bullsh*t and weak attempt. Charlie Brown can be enjoyed by anyone without a stick up their ass.
I will give you a generous 7/10.


Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

/again, I don't think this particular case is egregious, but I think it's okay to err on the side of caution when government sponsorship of religion is at stake. And clearly here some parents were unhappy about sending their children to a church to see an allegorical play about the birth of Jesus.
 
2012-12-05 10:27:45 AM
Agnostic here.
A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of the few times where I get to feel like a kid at Christmastime. Given that I'm in my 30's, I cherish this. Because those moments are few and far between.
So if anyone has a problem with Charlie Brown, and my love of it, I say to you this: SCREW YOU.
 
2012-12-05 10:28:53 AM

Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!


Down to about 4/10
 
2012-12-05 10:29:25 AM

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.

And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?


No, I believe this is a stupid thing to worry about. Too many people give too big of a shiat about religion, whether they're religious themselves or not. It boggles my farking mind sometimes the shiat people will find to complain about. In high school, we went to a Catholic church, a synagogue, a mosque, a Mormon temple, a Baptist church, and a Ba'hai temple. All in the interest of understanding that hey, we aren't alone on this rock, other people live here too. The non-Catholics didn't biatch when we went to the cathedral, the non-Jews didn't biatch when we went to a synagogue, the non-Muslims didn't biatch when we went to a mosque, the non-Mormons didn't biatch when we went to a Mormon temple, the non-Baptists didn't biatch when we went to a Baptist church, and the non-Ba'hai folks didn't biatch when we went there either.

Those trips were all voluntary, if you didn't want to go, you didn't have to. Many of us did though, not just because the architecture in these buildings was stunning, but because it was a chance to LEARN SOMETHING. ZOMG LEARNING IN SCHOOL?!?!! Alert the farking press. I was totally non-religious at this point, having left the church a couple years earlier, so I was totally and completely outside even the sphere the other students were in, and I didn't see these trips as some kind of "Fark you, Coco LaFemme, you filthy non-believer swine" exercise.
 
2012-12-05 10:29:46 AM

R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10


I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.
 
2012-12-05 10:35:11 AM

Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.


Perhaps you are genuinely wounded at the mere mention of Jesus. Mea culpa.
 
2012-12-05 10:37:57 AM

SilentStrider: Agnostic here.
A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of the few times where I get to feel like a kid at Christmastime. Given that I'm in my 30's, I cherish this. Because those moments are few and far between.
So if anyone has a problem with Charlie Brown, and my love of it, I say to you this: SCREW YOU.
I didn't RTFA.


FIFY
 
2012-12-05 10:41:02 AM
School wants to take kids to church and someone isn't happy about this? I wouldn't be either if my kid went there...
 
2012-12-05 10:41:36 AM

R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.

Perhaps you are genuinely wounded at the mere mention of Jesus. Mea culpa.


I'm glad you actually read my posts and saw how I mentioned multiple times that I did not think this was egregious. Good reading skills there, champ.

Oh, and P.S., to all the crowd screaming about humorless atheists ruining Christmas, the school isn't the one that cancelled this. THey hadn't even received a formal complaint. The church cancelled it, after hearing that one of the parents had complained the Freethinkers Society and the Freethinkers Society was (gasp) consulting with their lawyer.
 
2012-12-05 10:44:02 AM

Nabb1: Like Ramada Inn? Why would you do that in a mosque?


Fewer bedbugs.
 
2012-12-05 10:44:09 AM
draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com

/oblig
 
2012-12-05 10:48:46 AM

Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig


I really hate that, because the first part gets all of those old gods wrong, based off that stupid "Christianity is just a copy of old religions" image that's been circling the internet for a while.

Hercules was not a god.
There is no evidence that Horus was born anywhere near December 25th
Sol Invictus and Mithra are the same damn thing
Zeus wasn't born on December 25th
Mithra wasn't born on December 25th.

Literally every part of that list of gods "born" during Saturnalia is wrong.
 
2012-12-05 10:49:32 AM
Pulling kids out of class to see a church-sponsored play about a religious holiday outside of the context of a religious studies class is clearly over the line of acceptable amounts of religion in school; based on the decisions of our courts.

It doesn't matter if it's voluntary or not, it doesn't belong in school. Take your kids to church on your own damn time.
 
2012-12-05 10:49:54 AM

Rincewind53: Zeus wasn't born on December 25th
Mithra wasn't born on December 25th.


And niether was Jesus, so we're consistent.
 
2012-12-05 10:52:06 AM
I guess very few people chose to read the article completely. The church cancelled the event voluntarily, then decided to call the media to talk about how they're being oppressed.

The school board and principal were all for going forward with the field trip.

HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!
 
2012-12-05 10:52:59 AM
I'm a teacher, and I'm an atheist. I keep my opinions about religion out of the classroom, because I have always felt that they really have no business there.

Am I doing it wrong? Should I be proselytizing in favor of atheism in my classroom? Would it be appropriate for me to take my students to a reading of Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not a Christian"? (Voluntarily, of course- the Christians in the class can sit in the classroom and do additional work.)

It never even occurred to me that this might be an appropriate use of class time and school money.
 
2012-12-05 10:56:22 AM
The solstice is the reason for the season

http://elly.org/days/2002/12-25-2002/happy-solstice.jpg Might be a little NSFW
 
2012-12-05 10:56:44 AM
I love that Charlie Brown.
 
2012-12-05 10:56:48 AM
No subby, it's not an atheist outrage. It's a Faux News Fox atheist outrage.
 
2012-12-05 10:57:30 AM

FloydA: I'm a teacher, and I'm an atheist. I keep my opinions about religion out of the classroom, because I have always felt that they really have no business there.

Am I doing it wrong? Should I be proselytizing in favor of atheism in my classroom? Would it be appropriate for me to take my students to a reading of Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not a Christian"? (Voluntarily, of course- the Christians in the class can sit in the classroom and do additional work.)

It never even occurred to me that this might be an appropriate use of class time and school money.


OMG I feel so silly. This thread has shown me that Charlie Brown is merely a tool of the Christian agenda.
/off to rethink my life
 
2012-12-05 10:57:41 AM
And so this is Christmas?
 
2012-12-05 10:57:58 AM
Uhhhh......no.

Shocking that FOX News Channel is wrong yet again.


This atheist enjoys Christmas thoroughly. My favorite piece of Christmas music is Handel's Hallelujah Chorus. My favorite Christmas song is a tie between "The Holly and the Ivy" and "Christmas At Ground Zero" by Weird Al.
 
2012-12-05 10:57:58 AM
the cartoon has a pretty heavyhanded christian message
 
2012-12-05 10:58:11 AM

kronicfeld: The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene


It's not a bad headline, all it needs is a little love.
 
2012-12-05 10:58:34 AM
I think I'm more outraged that anyone would believe Fox News on, well..anything.

dailydiscord.com

And now, it's time for a Christmas Classic - A Charilie Brown Kwanzaa, the Director's Cut.
 
2012-12-05 10:58:54 AM

Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig


*golfclap.jpg*
 
2012-12-05 10:59:18 AM
 
2012-12-05 10:59:40 AM

Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.


I do and I'm a hellbound prick.
 
2012-12-05 11:00:06 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Why? Because we object to religious indoctrination, even if it comes in the form of cartoons?
 
2012-12-05 11:00:16 AM
Recipe for Christians Are Under Attack Attention Whoring:

1. Be a church
2. Sponsor a showing of a Children's cartoon that is about Christmas. Make sure it has a biblical passage
3. Schedule the showing at a public elementary school
4. Make sure the event is highly publicized
5. When some whacked atheist group expresses their butthurt OUTRAGE, cancel the event and contact the media (AWing begets AWing)
6. Profit
 
2012-12-05 11:00:28 AM

minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


Yes, but this is textbook libtard atheist. If they don't like something, they must make sure NOONE else can make their own decissions.
 
2012-12-05 11:00:42 AM
Not only that, the farking awesome Vince Guaraldi Trio soundtrack.
 
2012-12-05 11:00:46 AM
More like gaythiest.
 
2012-12-05 11:00:56 AM

Jake Havechek: Uhhhh......no.

Shocking that FOX News Channel is wrong yet again.


This atheist enjoys Christmas thoroughly. My favorite piece of Christmas music is Handel's Hallelujah Chorus. My favorite Christmas song is a tie between "The Holly and the Ivy" and "Christmas At Ground Zero" by Weird Al.


just don't have your school orchestra perform that. Mostly because aside from the awesomeness that is the Chorus, the Messiah is really long and boring
 
2012-12-05 11:01:52 AM

Nabb1: kronicfeld: R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

You leave Pia Zadora out of this.

Lord knows no one ever left anything out of Pia Zadora.


OMG coffee in the sinuses burns!!!!eleventy1!

/Best story is still "She's in the attic!!" even if it isn't true.
 
2012-12-05 11:02:21 AM

JackieRabbit: Recipe for Christians Are Under Attack Attention Whoring:

1. Be a church
2. Sponsor a showing of a Children's cartoon that is about Christmas. Make sure it has a biblical passage
3. Schedule the showing at a public elementary school CHURCH4. Make sure the event is highly publicized
5. When some whacked atheist group expresses their butthurt OUTRAGE, cancel the event and contact the media (AWing begets AWing)
6. Profit


FIFY
 
2012-12-05 11:02:31 AM
The parents who stopped this bullshiat deserve a f*cking medal.
 
2012-12-05 11:02:50 AM

NowhereMon: The solstice is the reason for the season


Christmas doesn't fall on the solstice.
 
2012-12-05 11:02:57 AM
Also:

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

Jeremiah 10

Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
 
2012-12-05 11:03:17 AM
Fox news is a conspiracy site.
 
2012-12-05 11:03:52 AM
I always liked the cartoon.

I thought it was odd when I was in public school and the Power Team showed up for a pep-rally. Bunch of roided out guys doing stupid stuff like eating phonebooks and blowing up water bottles and then they tell us we are going to burn in hell if we don't except Christ.

I also remember creepy dudes hanging around outside the front doors handing out bibles to everyone a few times a year. Unfortunately there's not much separation between church and state in the south.
 
2012-12-05 11:04:29 AM
I'm an atheist, and this shiat annoys the hell out of me.
Why do atheists have to act like such a-holes?

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.
 
2012-12-05 11:04:31 AM
the Messiah is really long and boring

Well, yeah. I think I listened to the whole thing only once. Opera or opera type stuff has never been my thing. I have just the Chorus on an awesome 2 CD Baroque comp.
 
2012-12-05 11:04:51 AM
Yet another glorious victory in the War on Christmas.
 
2012-12-05 11:04:51 AM

Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.


And our problem isn't with A Charlie Brown Christmas. It's with a public school taking kids to see a play about Christianity's central character at a church. You know, that whole separation of church and state thing.
 
2012-12-05 11:04:51 AM

AbbeySomeone: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.


A big 'ol pile of this. Heck, I'd pay extra for a DVD with commercials from McDonald's, York Peppermint Patties, and Almond Joy/Mounds

/heh, Mounds...
 
2012-12-05 11:04:58 AM

Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


This. It's really not that difficult. There must be hundreds on non-religious cultural events that the kids can be taken to.
 
2012-12-05 11:05:28 AM

doyner: Rincewind53: Zeus wasn't born on December 25th
Mithra wasn't born on December 25th.

And niether was Jesus, so we're consistent.


Boom. Headshot.

Pointing out flaws while ignoring the obvious flaw right next to you is part of the problem.

/another flaw, Linus didn't ask for "Lights?" to go down
//I demand consistency, dammit!
 
2012-12-05 11:05:35 AM

Mirrorz: ...we don't except Christ.


...accept Christ, dumbass.

The Freudian slip was more accurate.
 
2012-12-05 11:05:44 AM
At least it wasn't "Merry Chirstmas, Mr. Lawrence". That might have been traumatic.
 
2012-12-05 11:05:45 AM

AbbeySomeone: FloydA: I'm a teacher, and I'm an atheist. I keep my opinions about religion out of the classroom, because I have always felt that they really have no business there.

Am I doing it wrong? Should I be proselytizing in favor of atheism in my classroom? Would it be appropriate for me to take my students to a reading of Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not a Christian"? (Voluntarily, of course- the Christians in the class can sit in the classroom and do additional work.)

It never even occurred to me that this might be an appropriate use of class time and school money.

OMG I feel so silly. This thread has shown me that Charlie Brown is merely a tool of the Christian agenda.
/off to rethink my life



Does that reply follow logically from my post?

I like the Charlie Brown Christmas, but it's not really educational, it is religious-themed entertainment. That's fine, but it's not the business of public schools to entertain or indoctrinate students. It's the business of public schools to educate the students.

Why would anyone want to leave their children's religious learning up to public school teachers? It seems unwise to me. Aren't parents and ministers better suited to that task?
 
2012-12-05 11:06:09 AM

Slaves2Darkness: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Why? Because we object to religious indoctrination, even if it comes in the form of cartoons?


I must be a different kind of atheist because I don't believe "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" is religious indoctrination.
 
2012-12-05 11:06:12 AM

enry: AbbeySomeone: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.

A big 'ol pile of this. Heck, I'd pay extra for a DVD with commercials from McDonald's, York Peppermint Patties, and Almond Joy/Mounds

/heh, Mounds...


Dolly Madison Snack Cakes and Pies.
 
2012-12-05 11:06:18 AM
The only coward in this story is the pastor of the church who caved into a threat. The Atheists have a right to take legal action and did so according to their beliefs. The school principal took a stand on the issue and handled it in a very appropriate fashion. The actors in the play prepared for what they felt was an appropriate Christmas presentation. If I did not know better, it looks to me like the pastor of the church staged the whole thing very carefully to draw attention to his church.
 
2012-12-05 11:06:56 AM

t3knomanser: xanadian: It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

And why aren't children of other faiths offered a similar field trip? Why is one group given an advantage that other groups are not?


No such information is given in TFA. I mean, this IS Faux News, after all. As long as there's *some* level of education about other cultures and religions, you cannot say the school is favoring one particular religion. I expect there's no trips to a mosque for Ramadan because it's harder to justify spending the school budget for a minority interest. ...which opens up a whole DIFFERENT can of worms. Or to allocate time for ALL the potential sources of cultural enrichment? I mean, schools are cutting MUSIC because of their budgets. With that having been said, why do field trips at all unless it's to the museum, I guess...

On a semi-related note, I wonder how the freethinkers' group would've reacted if the Charlie Brown play were held at a public amphitheater, as opposed to a church? Or, even IN the school itself? Hell of a lot of gray areas, depending on what your definition of a "separation of church and state" is. Is it based off of the institution where the play is held? Is it the play at all, despite the fact that it's a traditional play with historical religious overtones (a product of its time)? And, of course, is there any education being done on all the OTHER aspects of Christmas/Yuletide/etc, as well as things like Ramadan and Hanukkah?

Note I didn't include Kwanzaa. What the hell is up with that shiat, anyway!??
 
Bf+
2012-12-05 11:07:08 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-05 11:07:32 AM

doyner: JackieRabbit: Recipe for Christians Are Under Attack Attention Whoring:

1. Be a church
2. Sponsor a showing of a Children's cartoon that is about Christmas. Make sure it has a biblical passage
3. Schedule the showing at a public elementary school CHURCH4. Make sure the event is highly publicized
5. When some whacked atheist group expresses their butthurt OUTRAGE, cancel the event and contact the media (AWing begets AWing)
6. Profit

FIFY


Whoops, I read too fast... "Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

But the effect is the same.
 
2012-12-05 11:07:37 AM

Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


Yeah, because God atheists forbid kids learn about culture.

Didn't some school take kids to a mosque earlier this year - you know, to learn about culture?

I have know problem with either field trip.
 
2012-12-05 11:07:41 AM

Rincewind53: Sol Invictus and Mithra are the same damn thing


Common sense and quick google search shows that this statement is patently false.
I don't have the time or inclination to refute any of the other crap you're whining about, but feel free to do some research on your own.
 
2012-12-05 11:07:43 AM

FloydA: Would it be appropriate for me to take my students to a reading of Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not a Christian"?


Do people actually do this?

/would rather do worksheets than listen to that
//not religious
 
2012-12-05 11:08:04 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Oh please.

Moreover, the headline is really misleading. I doubt anyone cares that the kids were going to watch a Charlie Brown Christmas. I think it had more to do with a field trip and took public school students to church.

If I was a parent, I'd prefer my kid's school not take him/her to church. But I admit this ranks kinda low on my list of things to get upset about.
 
2012-12-05 11:08:22 AM

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Sorry, the grip of His Noodley Appendage is perpetually binding.
 
2012-12-05 11:08:23 AM

doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.


Apatheist
 
2012-12-05 11:08:28 AM
I do think its a bit religious for a public school field trip. Still, I wouldn't really care if my kid went.

Hell, I'm an atheist and I OWN a DVD of the Charlie Brown Christmas. It's too cute!
 
2012-12-05 11:08:45 AM
"Atheist outrage" reported by Fox News? *laughs uncontrollably*
 
2012-12-05 11:08:48 AM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

The "Charlie Brown Krampus Special" didn't go over so well, either. 


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-05 11:09:07 AM

Babwa Wawa: I guess very few people chose to read the article completely. The church cancelled the event voluntarily, then decided to call the media to talk about how they're being oppressed.

The school board and principal were all for going forward with the field trip.

HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!


So very, very true. The article also omits the all-too-obvious fact that anyone can watch the Charlie Brown Christmas on network TV, on YouTube or through a home video rental without costing the taxpayers a dime or pulling kids out of class. Good grief!
 
2012-12-05 11:09:09 AM

Jake Havechek: the Messiah is really long and boring

Well, yeah. I think I listened to the whole thing only once. Opera or opera type stuff has never been my thing. I have just the Chorus on an awesome 2 CD Baroque comp.


I went to see it at the NY Phil around Christmas when I was first dating my last girlfriend. I've never been into opera but she seemed kinda fancy so I figured I'd feign interest in culture and shiat and went along. Managed to stay away until the HC (which predictably did rock). Afterwards as we sat at a bar a few blocks away having some Guinness she looked at me and said "Wow that was farking boring, wasn't it?"

So we got married.
 
2012-12-05 11:09:10 AM

Mirrorz: Mirrorz: ...we don't except Christ.

...accept Christ, dumbass.

The Freudian slip was more accurate.


No one expects the savior of Mankind!

/and Freud never wore a slip. That was just a Skinnerian lie.
 
2012-12-05 11:09:17 AM

kronicfeld: The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene


The part where Lucy yanks away Baby Jesus just as Charlie was about to kick it was from the Bible??
 
2012-12-05 11:09:27 AM

Bf+: [i.imgur.com image 320x240]


Laughter OL. That's great.

/BTW, Peanuts sucks.
 
2012-12-05 11:09:38 AM

doyner: Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.


Absolutely. It would have had them crying foul for days.
 
2012-12-05 11:09:43 AM

vernonFL: "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and goodwill towards men.

.And that's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.


Course, he also believes in The Great Pumpkin so take all that with a grain of salt...

/award myself 3/10
 
2012-12-05 11:09:58 AM

Rincewind53: Hercules was not a god.
There is no evidence that Horus was born anywhere near December 25th
Sol Invictus and Mithra are the same damn thing
Zeus wasn't born on December 25th
Mithra wasn't born on December 25th.


Neither was Jesus Christ. December 25th ties into the solstice traditions, not into any particular deity's birth.
 
2012-12-05 11:10:00 AM

Coco LaFemme: I must be a different kind of atheist because I don't believe "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" is religious indoctrination.


I agree, to be honest.

Religious indoctrination would never teach us to be tolerant of lesbians like Marcie and Peppermint Patty.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-05 11:10:03 AM

Trivia Jockey: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Oh please.


You don't think this is the kind of stuff that makes other people believe all atheists are like this?
 
2012-12-05 11:10:35 AM

doyner: 3. Schedule the showing at a public elementary school CHURCH4


Ayup. The atheist movement has more reason to be concerned about that than the play itself. Hence why I pondered e-aloud about their potential reactions if the play were held elsewhere.

I think they should do A Charlie Brown Christmas in their local Church of Satan. Wouldn't that be fun?

/talk about dividing by zero
 
2012-12-05 11:10:38 AM
cache.ohinternet.com

/what Arkansas Society of Freethinkers may look like...
 
2012-12-05 11:11:08 AM

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Which Lord would that be? There are thousands to choose from. Maybe the states should set up some sort of Lord Exchange, where people should see the costs and benefits?
 
2012-12-05 11:11:37 AM
Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.
 
2012-12-05 11:11:44 AM

doczoidberg: I'm an atheist, and this shiat annoys the hell out of me.
Why do atheists have to act like such a-holes?

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.


You do realize there are plenty of Jews, Christians, and so on and so forth who also don't actively promote their religion but hold them as private beliefs right? Doesn't make them any less Jew/Christian/etc.

I'm proud to be an atheist. Doesn't mean I don't disagree with some people's approaches to atheism.

Trivia Jockey: Moreover, the headline is really misleading. I doubt anyone cares that the kids were going to watch a Charlie Brown Christmas. I think it had more to do with a field trip and took public school students to church.

If I was a parent, I'd prefer my kid's school not take him/her to church. But I admit this ranks kinda low on my list of things to get upset about.


So long as the kids are also taken to a synagogue or a mosque or where ever, I wouldn't really care.
 
2012-12-05 11:11:45 AM

vernonFL: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 215x234]

The "Charlie Brown Krampus Special" didn't go over so well, either. 


[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 202x249]


A banana and some electrolytes will take care of those krampus right away. Leg krampus are the worst!!
 
2012-12-05 11:11:46 AM

doyner:
Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.


nailed it.

A teacher should troll the f*ck out of America and take a class to a mosque for whatever type of program of mosque would put on.
 
2012-12-05 11:11:52 AM

Bf+: [i.imgur.com image 320x240]


A pagan could believe in both.
 
2012-12-05 11:12:09 AM

xanadian: Someone forgot to tell these "freethinkers" that they do not have a Constitutional right to not be offended.


I'm an atheist and love the Charlie Brown holiday specials. I actually came in here to poo-poo the article, because Atheist outrage goes overboard sometimes (sometimes, a lot of the time).

But having a public school shuttle kids to a church to watch it... that's different than just watching it in the privacy of your own home. And it's illegal.
 
2012-12-05 11:12:23 AM
I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheist, and nothing - NOTHING - would make me happier than if the United States were to become a Christian nation. The catch is I mean Christian as in actually following the teachings of Jesus Christ - patience, forgiveness, tolerance, charity, love - not just hating homos and Muslims. I'd even settle for following those 10 commandments people are so anxious to hang in courtrooms.
 
2012-12-05 11:12:30 AM
What if they changed it to Happy Kwanzaa Charlie Brown:

Link
 
2012-12-05 11:12:40 AM

dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.


madmikesamerica.com

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.
 
2012-12-05 11:12:44 AM

AbbeySomeone: OMG I feel so silly. This thread has shown me that Charlie Brown is merely a tool of the Christian agenda.


Charlie Brown in general? Not really.

The "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" movie? Of course it farking is, it's in the title. It's explicitly religious.
 
2012-12-05 11:13:05 AM

IAmRight: FloydA: Would it be appropriate for me to take my students to a reading of Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not a Christian"?

Do people actually do this?


No. That's kind of my point. It would be a ridiculous thing to do. Public schools should not be in the business of supporting or endorsing one religion over any other, or of no religion over any. It's simply not their place. Religious teaching should be left up to the parents and their chosen ministers, not government functionaries.
 
2012-12-05 11:13:20 AM

BronyMedic: Lets try this again. A Charlie Brown Kwanzaa (NSFW)


I'm an atheist and love both the original and the Kwanzaa version.
 
2012-12-05 11:13:57 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: [cache.ohinternet.com image 309x282]

/what Arkansas Society of Freethinkers may look like...


I was thinking the same thing. One would think that a society of free-thinkers would have no problem with someone else's religious beliefs. I guess we are just free to think their way.
 
2012-12-05 11:14:18 AM

dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.


images1.wikia.nocookie.net
/Some just want to watch the world burn
 
2012-12-05 11:14:35 AM

FloydA: doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.

Apatheist


Hey, that's me too. I give not one rat's wet asshole about anyone else's religious beliefs, and I have no desire to try and change people's minds about what they believe. Just mind your own farking business.
 
2012-12-05 11:14:37 AM

busy chillin': doyner:
Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

nailed it.

A teacher should troll the f*ck out of America and take a class to a mosque for whatever type of program of mosque would put on.


My gf is a high school teacher and she spent a day a few months ago teaching about the hajj. No mosque visit but I was actually surprised she didn't get any kind of backlash from either the students or parents. Actually gave me some hope for humanity.
 
2012-12-05 11:14:55 AM

t3knomanser: R.A.Danny: They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.

For the purpose of education, yes, but it's a very fuzzy line. A religious studies class could attend a mass, but you couldn't send the entire 5th grade, for example.


And you couldn't just present one religion, you'd have to present equal time to many religions. There's a difference between being exposed to religion (plural) and being exposed to one religion preferentially, which is the case in TFA.
 
2012-12-05 11:14:56 AM

busy chillin': doyner:
Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

nailed it.

A teacher should troll the f*ck out of America and take a class to a mosque for whatever type of program of mosque would put on.


I think taking kids (of an older age than just elementary school) to various temples/churches/etc is a good idea. Explain to them that some people believe that way. Explain where the origins of the beliefs came from and the historical aspects of it. You'd almost be treating churches as museums that way. Hell, even bring up such topics as the Crusades and their impact on the middle ages.

...

Guess it would be cheaper to just talk about it in class, though. Who wants to spend all that public money on field trips IN THIS ECONOMY!??
 
2012-12-05 11:15:08 AM

BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.


I think that picture needs updating
 
2012-12-05 11:15:09 AM

Coco LaFemme: You don't think this is the kind of stuff that makes other people believe all atheists are like this?


No...because the people that hate atheists already hate them, merely for being atheists. And many of them don't really understand the concept of 'separation of church and state' anyway, so they'll be mad any time an atheist complains that the separation has been violated. Regardless of what the subject is.
 
2012-12-05 11:15:41 AM
25.media.tumblr.com

A Christmas story we can all enjoy
 
2012-12-05 11:15:51 AM

JackieRabbit: HindiDiscoMonster: [cache.ohinternet.com image 309x282]

/what Arkansas Society of Freethinkers may look like...

I was thinking the same thing. One would think that a society of free-thinkers would have no problem with someone else's religious beliefs. I guess we are just free to think their way.


winner winner chicken dinner
 
2012-12-05 11:16:01 AM
pilateslogic.com

Rolls over in grave
 
2012-12-05 11:16:13 AM
A lot of Peanuts stuff is really depressing. The music is awesome, though. The Merry Christmas Charlie Brown soundtrack is always on the stereo Christmas morning.

The only thing about Peanuts that ever made me angry was the New Years one. Linus knows that Charlie Brown has always loved the little redhaired girl, but moves in on her anyway. Bros before hos, Linus, bros before hos.
 
2012-12-05 11:16:28 AM

ghare: R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.

Which Lord would that be? There are thousands to choose from. Maybe the states should set up some sort of Lord Exchange, where people should see the costs and benefits?


I've got 8 Lords a Leaping.
 
2012-12-05 11:16:34 AM

Coco LaFemme: Trivia Jockey: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Oh please.

You don't think this is the kind of stuff that makes other people believe all atheists are like this?


In all fairness, I suppose most atheists do have an issue with a public school carving out class time to go to a church to watch a religious-themed presentation.

So if atheists are hated for this so be it....that is, unless the same haters would be fine with the class going to see "A Roger Rabbit Ramadan" at the Aliq Aman Mosque too.
 
2012-12-05 11:16:56 AM

Babwa Wawa: I guess very few people chose to read the article completely. The church cancelled the event voluntarily, then decided to call the media to talk about how they're being oppressed.

The school board and principal were all for going forward with the field trip.

HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!


They interviewed representatives from the church, the school district and the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers. Where exactly does it say that it was the church that initially called the media?
 
2012-12-05 11:17:03 AM

Gunny Highway: [25.media.tumblr.com image 500x675]

A Christmas story we can all enjoy


As long as they don't make it into a movie. Hellboy 2 sucked.
 
2012-12-05 11:17:09 AM
Maybe if they watched this the atheists would be happy

s.ecrater.com

It's the equivalent of getting coal in your stocking, which is what these douchebags deserve
 
2012-12-05 11:17:19 AM

BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.


Ask the Tibetans how much they enjoy actual militant atheism.
 
2012-12-05 11:17:23 AM

FloydA: No. That's kind of my point. It would be a ridiculous thing to do.


I meant the reading part - does anyone read that sh*t in public?

/it'd be okay if the kids went to watch some re-enactments of Futurama's Xmas episodes, though, right?
//what if it took place in a church simply because they had available space on that night?
 
2012-12-05 11:17:36 AM

had98c: My gf is a high school teacher and she spent a day a few months ago teaching about the hajj. No mosque visit but I was actually surprised she didn't get any kind of backlash from either the students or parents.


Where was this? I suspect geography played a role in the lack of backlash.
 
2012-12-05 11:17:41 AM
This concerned parent may very well want to pull their child from school altogether. This play holds nothing on the amount of nonsense spewed by other children that are religious. My parents were raised in very religious homes but they never did any of that with me. How did I learn about Heaven, Hell, God, Jesus, etc etc? Other kids in school. I learned that if I believed in God then when I died I would go to Heaven and that anything I wanted to do I could do or anyone I wanted to talk to I could talk to. I went to bible camp, I went to church with some friends when I stayed at their houses but guess what if anything it just gave me a greater understanding of various religious practices and prominent religious figures. I wouldn't say that any of the material I was exposed to would have harmed me in anyway, most of it was rather inspirational stories about doing good for humanity.

/Still a non-believer
 
2012-12-05 11:17:41 AM
Meh, my agnostic outrage is that the networks have edited out portions of the show in order to fit in more adverts to appease the false god of holiday overconsumerism.. So what they show today isn't the same as what I grew up with.

I should go see if the original unedited version is out on the torrents.
 
2012-12-05 11:17:46 AM
Sounds like derp on all sides. The War on Christmas, and Fox's War on the War on Christmas. As long as all eyes are open and minds as well that this is a time of celebration of many cultures - pagans, Christians, Jews, etc, and all cultures are given equal weight in telling their stories, I am fine with it. I think the Atheist militance against traditions is annoying and makes me embarrassed to be an atheist. And Fox News's attempt at emphasizing their butt hurt over this is also embarrassing. Both sides need to chill out.

/watched that Dave Silverman/Bill O'reilly argument the other day
//nearly punched the tv at the stupidity of both people
///was really angry that Dave Silverman didn't just get up and walk out when O'reilly decided to make sh*t up to keep himself in the argument
///was even angrier when Silverman said he "had" to take the day off work on Christmas
 
2012-12-05 11:17:57 AM

BronyMedic: I think I'm more outraged that anyone would believe Fox News on, well..anything.

[dailydiscord.com image 454x523]

And now, it's time for a Christmas Classic - A Charilie Brown Kwanzaa, the Director's Cut.


HARAMBEE!
 
2012-12-05 11:17:57 AM

had98c: busy chillin': doyner:
Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

nailed it.

A teacher should troll the f*ck out of America and take a class to a mosque for whatever type of program of mosque would put on.

My gf is a high school teacher and she spent a day a few months ago teaching about the hajj. No mosque visit but I was actually surprised she didn't get any kind of backlash from either the students or parents. Actually gave me some hope for humanity.


chexydecimal.com
Was this him?
 
2012-12-05 11:18:26 AM
When they cried about saying Merry Christmas, I said nothing.

When they cried about taking God off of money, I said nothing.

Try and stop my Charlie Brown, mother-suger and see how long you keep your teeth.
 
2012-12-05 11:18:33 AM
mediumlarge.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-05 11:18:37 AM
Atheist outrage again?!?
If only they could be reasonable about things they disagree with, as the devoutly religous are.
 
2012-12-05 11:18:37 AM

Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig


Nice. But a little too sensible and logical, a little too devoid of religious herp and derp for Fark. Don't take the righteous indignation away from the religious types, ultimately it's all they really have.
 
2012-12-05 11:18:58 AM

doyner: Coco LaFemme: Trivia Jockey: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Oh please.

You don't think this is the kind of stuff that makes other people believe all atheists are like this?

In all fairness, I suppose most atheists do have an issue with a public school carving out class time to go to a church to watch a religious-themed presentation.

So if atheists are hated for this so be it....that is, unless the same haters would be fine with the class going to see "A Roger Rabbit Ramadan" at the Aliq Aman Mosque too.


I must not be "most atheists" then, because if my kid was in this class, I wouldn't care. I guess I save my real ire and righteous indignation for things that are truly offensive.
 
2012-12-05 11:18:58 AM

doyner: "A Roger Rabbit Ramadan" at the Aliq Aman Mosque too.


If this existed, it sounds entertaining.

/why don't other religions put on entertaining shows?
 
2012-12-05 11:18:59 AM

BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.



Coffee? That's a beer.
 
2012-12-05 11:19:01 AM

Pertifly: xanadian: Someone forgot to tell these "freethinkers" that they do not have a Constitutional right to not be offended.

I'm an atheist and love the Charlie Brown holiday specials. I actually came in here to poo-poo the article, because Atheist outrage goes overboard sometimes (sometimes, a lot of the time).

But having a public school shuttle kids to a church to watch it... that's different than just watching it in the privacy of your own home. And it's illegal.


Valid, and I said so earlier, after I processed the whole article with my brain cell. Doesn't help that the very first paragraph says the group protested the PLAY and didn't mention that they were protesting the CHURCH for hosting the play. TFA initially said they just had a problem with the play.

Once again, though, this is FAUX NEWS, and they spin it to win it.
 
2012-12-05 11:19:41 AM

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


What do you mean, "back?"
 
2012-12-05 11:19:44 AM

This text is now purple: Ask the Tibetans how much they enjoy actual militant atheism.


No thank you. I'd rather laugh at you for thinking State-as-Religion is the same as Atheism/Secular Humanism.

/we need a Godwin's law equivalent for people who say stupid things like this.
 
2012-12-05 11:20:39 AM
Yes, as an atheist I really give a flying fark what you people watch.
 
2012-12-05 11:20:52 AM
So it is okay to celebrate the materialism aspects of Christmas, but should one even MENTION the religious roots of a holiday it becomes absolutely, positively a state-sponsored endorsement of that religion?

Can public-school students be permitted to see any dramatic performance with a mention of religion in it?

busy chillin': doyner:
Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

nailed it.

A teacher should troll the f*ck out of America and take a class to a mosque for whatever type of program of mosque would put on.


I dunno; this seems more like a begging the question; it seems like it could be true (Fox News has a traditional slant against Muslims in general) and so we all assume it to be that they'd be outraged that any American child be subjected to learning about Eid al-Fitr or Ramadan.
 
2012-12-05 11:20:53 AM

The_Sponge: Coffee? That's a beer.


That's even more evil.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-05 11:21:06 AM

xanadian: Gunny Highway: [25.media.tumblr.com image 500x675]

A Christmas story we can all enjoy

As long as they don't make it into a movie. Hellboy 2 sucked.


I am an unapologetic Mignola fan so I blindly enjoyed both movies.
 
2012-12-05 11:21:10 AM

Coco LaFemme: "Oh no, my children were exposed to a point of view that differs from my own, whatever shall I do?"


thread should have ended here.

/seriously, thread over
//we can all go home
 
2012-12-05 11:21:10 AM

the_chief: More like gaythiest.


So, not are you prejudiced against atheist, but homophobic also. You must be a good Christian.
 
2012-12-05 11:21:13 AM
mediumlarge.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-05 11:21:13 AM

The_Sponge: BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.


Coffee? That's a beer.


It's the devil's water, meant to turn otherwise God-fearing people into agnostic or atheist abominations.

And God, how I love beer!!!
 
2012-12-05 11:21:15 AM

Trivia Jockey: had98c: My gf is a high school teacher and she spent a day a few months ago teaching about the hajj. No mosque visit but I was actually surprised she didn't get any kind of backlash from either the students or parents.

Where was this? I suspect geography played a role in the lack of backlash.


New Mexico.
 
2012-12-05 11:21:17 AM

kerryclendenon: /watched that Dave Silverman/Bill O'reilly argument the other day
//nearly punched the tv at the stupidity of both people


That's why I no longer watch Fox News. I have no need to expose myself to constant stupidity.

/then again, I come here
//at least there are pockets of less-dumb here
 
2012-12-05 11:21:17 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


and this is why atheists hate religion - most adherents to any particular religion seem to be blissfully unaware that another view point exists and if they ARE aware the adherents are dismissive of that view point.

Think about the quandary of a muslim family might be in here - allow the kid to go and violate their religious feelings etc or deny their kid the trip and wonder if he'll be ostracized for it.

These two trivial points are just that - trivial points - there very well could be other far more important issues in play.

On the surface it seems harmless enough but it in fact introduces a complication into others lives that just doesn't need to be there and in fact shouldn't be there.

So yeah, cultural and religious ignorance sucks and in todays United States, shouldn't be there.

Plus, it's that crappy Chuck Brown schlock - I've had it up to here with that dead guys cartoons - bring back Prince Valium
 
2012-12-05 11:21:28 AM

BronyMedic: Lets try this again. A Charlie Brown Kwanzaa (NSFW)



*Tipping my hat because you beat me to the punch*
 
2012-12-05 11:21:29 AM

kerryclendenon: The War on Christmas, and Fox's War on the War on Christmas


I prefer this:

t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-05 11:21:33 AM

R.A.Danny: This is what it is all about

Still gives me chills


It's all about shiatty animation (and trolling, apparently) for you?

You have an odd relationship with your god.
 
2012-12-05 11:21:37 AM
And yet another good reason for school vouchers (or even better expecting parents to actually pay for their own kids education). But that would hurt the teachers unions that protect pedophiles, so we can't have that.
 
2012-12-05 11:21:46 AM
i26.photobucket.com

/second time today I get to post this
 
2012-12-05 11:21:50 AM

IAmRight: FloydA: No. That's kind of my point. It would be a ridiculous thing to do.

I meant the reading part - does anyone read that sh*t in public?


I've never heard of such a thing.


/it'd be okay if the kids went to watch some re-enactments of Futurama's Xmas episodes, though, right?



During school hours? No, I don't think so. I'd prefer it if schools were actually teaching kids important things. They can watch TV at home.


//what if it took place in a church simply because they had available space on that night?

On their own time, parents can take their kids anywhere they choose. Schools have to be a bit more picky about where they take kids.
 
2012-12-05 11:21:57 AM
i1151.photobucket.com
Nnnyyesss - it seems that atheist have extra pain receptors in the gluteus maximus region.
Perhaps fornication is in order.
 
2012-12-05 11:22:00 AM

This text is now purple: BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.

Ask the Tibetans how much they enjoy actual militant atheism.


I'm pretty sure they're suffering from totalitarianism, not militant atheist. Unless you seriously believe that China is still Communist.
 
2012-12-05 11:22:09 AM

The Why Not Guy: I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheist, and nothing - NOTHING - would make me happier than if the United States were to become a Christian nation. The catch is I mean Christian as in actually following the teachings of Jesus Christ - patience, forgiveness, tolerance, charity, love - not just hating homos and Muslims. I'd even settle for following those 10 commandments people are so anxious to hang in courtrooms.


The catch as you know is that the people who are loudest about the US being a Christian nation are usually the ones that follow the exact polar opposite of every single thing Christ supposedly said. It's very Alanis Morrisette.
 
2012-12-05 11:22:10 AM

kerryclendenon: Sounds like derp on all sides. The War on Christmas, and Fox's War on the War on Christmas. As long as all eyes are open and minds as well that this is a time of celebration of many cultures - pagans, Christians, Jews, etc, and all cultures are given equal weight in telling their stories, I am fine with it. I think the Atheist militance against traditions is annoying and makes me embarrassed to be an atheist. And Fox News's attempt at emphasizing their butt hurt over this is also embarrassing. Both sides need to chill out.


Separation of Church and State.

This is not a complicated or new issue. Those saying it's not a big deal and "atheists" should chill out are just completely missing the point; this has nothing to do with atheism, this has to do with the state sponsoring one faith over others. It's a constitutional breach. There's an issue here, but that issue is this; why do these Christians hate the Constitution and thus America?
 
2012-12-05 11:22:33 AM

The_Sponge: BronyMedic: Lets try this again. A Charlie Brown Kwanzaa (NSFW)


*Tipping my hat because you beat me to the punch*


Charlie Brown, you are well farked and far from home. :)
 
2012-12-05 11:22:33 AM
Just so I'm sure I understand..

Religious people biatching about anything that doesn't follow their religion = Okay
Non-Religious people biatching about anything religious = Not okay

Is that right? Got it.
 
2012-12-05 11:23:07 AM
This fits the grand religious tradition of knowingly stepping over the line, then crying persecution when they're pushed back.
 
2012-12-05 11:23:09 AM

BronyMedic: The_Sponge: Coffee? That's a beer.

That's even more evil.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 490x252]


Ahh, good ole Chick Tracts. I think they got that very panel in the dictionary next to "hyperbole," and "f*cking retarded."
 
2012-12-05 11:23:13 AM
Yeah, let's rally against those Atheist cry babies by acting like a bunch of cry babies. That'll show 'em
 
2012-12-05 11:23:16 AM

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


Back when I was in school, if a parent wasn't cool with where the school was taking the kids
for a field trip, they opted their kid out of the trip. They didn't get their panties in a twist and
become such a pain in the ass that the school cancelled the trip altogether.

ZOMG! Taking kids to a church to see a play? That's crotch-fruit indoctrination, I tells ya!

Phbbbbbbbt.

There was a Catholic church and school a few blocks away from my elementary school. We
were forever going down there. Our little league basketball team practiced and played all
its games on their courts, our chorus and guitar class walked over a couple of times a year
for little assembly concerts, etc...

The AW parent is out of line. She forced the school and every child who didn't opt out to
accommodate her views on religion when they could have just as easily been accommodated
if she'd just oped out her own kid and leave everybody else alone.

It's like one biatch standing on a ladder holding a blown lightbulb in place while she makes
everyone else go outside and rotate the damn house in order to unscrew it.
 
2012-12-05 11:23:22 AM
idontwanttoliveonthisplanetanymore.jpg
 
2012-12-05 11:23:22 AM

BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.


I always thought of that as a beer. Maybe it's just cause I want a beer.
 
2012-12-05 11:23:37 AM
[high pitched, indistinct talking]
wonk, wonk, wonk, wonk. Wonk, wonk, wonk, wonk, wonk.
/wonk?
 
2012-12-05 11:23:45 AM
As an atheist I have no issues with Christmas. It's a great holiday and it has transcended past Christianity and has become more of a cultural event in our society.

I think it would serve atheists well to embrace Christmas. It would send the message to the droves of Christians who don't really believe in their religion but think being an atheist is too far out there, that not believing in god doesn't mean you have to quit things you enjoy. They can have the exact life they have now without believing in fairy tales.
 
2012-12-05 11:23:51 AM

Coco LaFemme: Slaves2Darkness: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Why? Because we object to religious indoctrination, even if it comes in the form of cartoons?

I must be a different kind of atheist because I don't believe "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" is religious indoctrination.


Showing "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" in the school auditorium with no religious leaders present = not indoctrination.

Taking students to multiple religious venues (including at least the big three) outside of ceremony times, and studying the history of religion in general = not indoctrination.

Taking students to a church to watch "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" being sponsored by the church with no other religion getting equal time = indoctrination.

Taking students to a church to see a church service with no other religion getting equal time = indoctrination.

That's where they step over the line. They're both giving one religion preferential treatment and taking students to a church-sponsored activity.

----

Again, if this were happening at a mosque, most of the parents in the class would be in outrage mode.
 
2012-12-05 11:23:54 AM
My employer (a liberal organization in the heathen area of Cambridge, MA that rhymes with "Schmarvard") hates Christmas so much, they told us to not show up to work starting close of business Dec 21 and don't want to see us again until Jan 2. And they have the nerve to pay us for it!

/woot
 
2012-12-05 11:24:22 AM
My brother is a Christian (I, on the other hand, am a dirty atheist) and he attends church quite regularly. When the Harry Potter books were still coming out, he and I were both reading them. One of the ladies at his church asked him why he was reading them, and that the books were "satanic" and promoted witchcraft. My brother replied that they are just stories, that actually have a positive message for both kids and adults.

He went on to say that his faith in god is strong and that if someone's faith is so fragile that it can be shaken by reading a book or watching a telivision show or movie, then maybe that person needs to re-evaluate what he or she believes. This is true for both the religious and non-religious.

The bible itself has a lot of good messages in it (subject, of course, to interpretation) and sheltering your kids from that is not doing them any favors. It is a good opportunity to open a discussion about morality (yes, we atheists have morals) and religion. Inform them and teach them, you are parents, it's what you are supposed to do.

/watches Charlie Brown Christmas Special every year.
//doesn't feel like Christmas without it
///anyone else notice that the Charlie Brown cartoons feel like a Wes Anderson movie?
 
2012-12-05 11:24:32 AM
I suspect the headlines would read differently if the play being performed at a local mosque and had to do with a re-enactment of Muhammad's revelations.
 
2012-12-05 11:24:35 AM

xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


Just because something is "optional" doesn't mean that it was ever okay for it to be suggested in the first place.

Why can't the kids be shown the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it have to be at a church?
 
2012-12-05 11:24:53 AM
So we live in a society where grown men watching "My Little Pony" should be celebrated, but "A Charlie Brown Christmas" should be vilified.
 
2012-12-05 11:25:10 AM

JonZoidberg: BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.

I always thought of that as a beer. Maybe it's just cause I want a beer.


Confirmation Bias, Sir!

It's really an after dinner mixture of iced coffee, kaluah, chocolate, and top shelf vodka.
 
2012-12-05 11:25:24 AM
Setting aside, for now, the fact that Charlie Brown (and anything 'Peanuts' for that matter) is horribly boring, no one in that school district thought that a field trip to a Church was perhaps not a good idea?

Maybe quit spending my tax dollars on completely non-educational field trips, and spend that money on educating the little snowflakes, before they fall even farther behind students in other first-world countries.
 
2012-12-05 11:25:43 AM
Let me get this straight:

The school tried to have a field trip that would take students to a church to watch a show being put on by the church, and the show has a religious message that's supported by the church?

I don't see who could possibly have a problem with this.
 
2012-12-05 11:26:22 AM
Huh?

I mean, I hate Merry Christmas Charlie Brown, but I hated it when I was a believer too.

//It has some horrible memories attached to it.
 
2012-12-05 11:26:33 AM
Militant atheists and those people waving bibles and yelling at me on street corners should both be sentenced to Thunderdome.
 
2012-12-05 11:26:34 AM

enry: My employer (a liberal organization in the heathen area of Cambridge, MA that rhymes with "Schmarvard") hates Christmas so much, they told us to not show up to work starting close of business Dec 21 and don't want to see us again until Jan 2. And they have the nerve to pay us for it!

/woot


Mine too!

/rhymes with Schmornell
//actually was known as the heathen/godless school since all the other Ivies were founded by religious types
///LET'S COMPLAIN ABOUT OUR WEEK-PLUS OF FREE VACATION TO VISIT OUR FAMILIES
 
2012-12-05 11:26:37 AM
If your Atheism is so weak that your child will be converted by going to a church, then you've failed as a parent.
 
2012-12-05 11:26:47 AM
Why can't they just go to a performance of Die Hard? That's an awesome Christmas movie that doesn't offend anyone. Except maybe Germans. But fark them.
 
2012-12-05 11:26:53 AM

Via Infinito: Rincewind53: Sol Invictus and Mithra are the same damn thing

Common sense and quick google search shows that this statement is patently false.
I don't have the time or inclination to refute any of the other crap you're whining about, but feel free to do some research on your own.


You're correct about that one, I mistakenly confused the fact that Sol Invictus was part of the Mithraic cult with the idea that Sol Invictus and Mithra were the same.

That doesn't change the fact that all of the other things I stated are correct. Sol Invictus's "birthdate" is a complete historical mystery, no one is entirely certain. The Pope thinks that the view that it was the 25th was incorrect, and I'll take him over anyone else.

Hercules was a demigod, the half-human, half-god offspring of Zeus and as common sense dictates; he was mortal during his lifetime, though endowed with great strength. He is a legendary figure, and there is no "December 25th" birthdate associated with him. The only internet sources you'll find claiming that are citing the same tired, old, idea that tons of religions had gods that were virgin births on the 25th. Which is not true.
 
2012-12-05 11:27:09 AM
I remember reading somewhere that Charles Schulz later regretted (presumably after he became an atheist) putting in Linus' little religious speech into that Christmas special.
 
2012-12-05 11:27:14 AM
Sorry, when you start with the phrase "Let's take a field trip to a church and..." you can stop right there. I'm an atheist and I like Christmas and normally don't care about religious display in public and whatnot but this is over the line of separation of church and state and they are right to complain. If you replaced church with mosque/synagogue/temple you'd be hearing the outrage from the right.
 
2012-12-05 11:27:28 AM
That reminds me, it's time to start saying "Merry Christmas" to everyone, just to piss off the uber-PC idiots. Christmas is a really nice tradition. It has it's roots in religion (several of them) but so what? Many things in our culture have their roots in religion. That doesn't mean we should abandon them and start saying stupid shiat like "Happy Holidays".

/agnostic
//firmly against organized religion
///Merry Christmas!
 
2012-12-05 11:27:40 AM

abhorrent1: Just so I'm sure I understand..

Religious people biatching about anything that doesn't follow their religion = Okay
Non-Religious people biatching about anything religious = Not okay
Earplugs to shut them all out = Okay
Is that right? Got it.


FTFY, so it'll be all right
 
2012-12-05 11:27:44 AM

MayoSlather: As an atheist I have no issues with Christmas. It's a great holiday and it has transcended past Christianity and has become more of a cultural event in our society.

I think it would serve atheists well to embrace Christmas. It would send the message to the droves of Christians who don't really believe in their religion but think being an atheist is too far out there, that not believing in god doesn't mean you have to quit things you enjoy. They can have the exact life they have now without believing in fairy tales.


Mmm hmm. Nothing all that religious about Santa, really. Not anymore. He's as secular an icon as you get these days (despite his roots in Saint Nicholas).

LazarusLong42: Again, if this were happening at a mosque, most of the parents in the class would be in outrage mode.


Well...FOX News would be in outrage mode, at least. And they'd promptly blame Obama for it.
 
2012-12-05 11:27:58 AM

Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig


I didn't make it and I'm not gonna try to shop it clean. But it fits what you posted, so here it is.
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-05 11:27:58 AM

doyner: "Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

Non-story, folks. Carving out a few hours from a public school day to take kids to a church to watch a story about how Linus and Charlie Brown are touched by the birth of Christ is clearly over the line.


As someone who was non-religious in an extremely religious small town, not "volunteering" to go on this trip meant social suicide.
 
2012-12-05 11:28:34 AM

digitalrain: The AW parent is out of line. She forced the school and every child who didn't opt out to
accommodate her views on religion when they could have just as easily been accommodated
if she'd just oped out her own kid and leave everybody else alone.


Except she didn't. RTFA. The church cancelled it before anyone even approached them. The school had literally nothing to do with the decision not to go.
 
2012-12-05 11:29:41 AM

advex101: Militant atheists and those people waving bibles and yelling at me on street corners should both be sentenced to Thunderdome.


Can the militant atheists bring science with them into the Thunderdome?
 
2012-12-05 11:29:46 AM

xanadian: On a semi-related note, I wonder how the freethinkers' group would've reacted if the Charlie Brown play were held at a public amphitheater, as opposed to a church? Or, even IN the school itself?


This is the exact problem I have with the entire scenario.

Why can't the kids just watch the damn movie at their school? Why do they HAVE to be bussed out to a church for the viewing?
 
2012-12-05 11:29:59 AM

BronyMedic: The_Sponge: Coffee? That's a beer.

That's even more evil.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 490x252]


i like how they're STILL doing the big nose guys are evil art with bonus balding spot on his head looks like a yarmulke.
 
2012-12-05 11:29:59 AM

Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


THIS.
 
2012-12-05 11:30:11 AM

Coco LaFemme: FloydA: doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.

Apatheist

Hey, that's me too. I give not one rat's wet asshole about anyone else's religious beliefs, and I have no desire to try and change people's minds about what they believe. Just mind your own farking business.


For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about what people believe and wishes them to just mind their own farking business, you sure do spend a lot of time trying convince them that they're wrong.
 
2012-12-05 11:30:12 AM

advex101: Militant atheists and those people waving bibles and yelling at me on street corners should both be sentenced to Thunderdome.


If you're militant about, well, virtually anything involving beliefs and other people's thoughts, you should go off yourself. Intolerant atheists are just as annoying as intolerant Christians - love how many of them in this thread automatically assume "oh hey, look, I bet those other people hate Muslims!" to deflect their whininess.

/not militant because the extent of my outrage is typing this post
//and honestly, I started yawning by the end of typing it
 
2012-12-05 11:30:15 AM

xanadian: advex101: Militant atheists and those people waving bibles and yelling at me on street corners should both be sentenced to Thunderdome.

Can the militant atheists bring science with them into the Thunderdome?


Wouldn't matter. It'd be no match for the power of the opposing god(s).
 
2012-12-05 11:30:46 AM

HotWingConspiracy: This fits the grand religious tradition of knowingly stepping over the line, then crying persecution when they're pushed back.


Excellent point.
 
2012-12-05 11:30:46 AM

xanadian: advex101: Militant atheists and those people waving bibles and yelling at me on street corners should both be sentenced to Thunderdome.

Can the militant atheists bring science with them into the Thunderdome?


They can use whatever is hanging from the hooks in the cage.
 
2012-12-05 11:31:24 AM

Lord Dimwit: doyner: "Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

Non-story, folks. Carving out a few hours from a public school day to take kids to a church to watch a story about how Linus and Charlie Brown are touched by the birth of Christ is clearly over the line.

As someone who was non-religious in an extremely religious small town, not "volunteering" to go on this trip meant social suicide.


Having attended public school in Brighton, Tennesse for k-3, I can attest to the validity of this statement. My 1st grade teacher was the Preacher's wife too. It was almost like being home schooled.
 
2012-12-05 11:31:41 AM

enry: My employer (a liberal organization in the heathen area of Cambridge, MA that rhymes with "Schmarvard") hates Christmas so much, they told us to not show up to work starting close of business Dec 21 and don't want to see us again until Jan 2. And they have the nerve to pay us for it!

/woot


Damned Druidic heathens. There's nothing they won't do to inconvenience others.
 
2012-12-05 11:31:42 AM

FauxReal: Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig

I didn't make it and I'm not gonna try to shop it clean. But it fits what you posted, so here it is.
[i.imgur.com image 536x600]


I'm an agnostic, my wife is a lapsed Catholic, and our son is a firm believer in the Church of Goldfish Crackers and Cold Milk, but we celebrate Christmas. At this point it's just as much a secular American holiday as it is anything else.

...on that note, you never see Christians getting all up in arms about Halloween or Valentine's Day losing their religious significance.
 
2012-12-05 11:31:52 AM

Marcintosh: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

and this is why atheists hate religion - most adherents to any particular religion seem to be blissfully unaware that another view point exists and if they ARE aware the adherents are dismissive of that view point.

Think about the quandary of a muslim family might be in here - allow the kid to go and violate their religious feelings etc or deny their kid the trip and wonder if he'll be ostracized for it.

These two trivial points are just that - trivial points - there very well could be other far more important issues in play.

On the surface it seems harmless enough but it in fact introduces a complication into others lives that just doesn't need to be there and in fact shouldn't be there.

So yeah, cultural and religious ignorance sucks and in todays United States, shouldn't be there.

Plus, it's that crappy Chuck Brown schlock - I've had it up to here with that dead guys cartoons - bring back Prince Valium


I was raised Catholic. I no longer am, but that's beside the point. I was raised Catholic, and often was exposed to non-Catholic teachings, whether it was from visiting another faith's place of worship or learning about it in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING. How can you claim to be devoutly religious, yet the mere exposure to someone else's faith can make you suddenly question your own? Attending a bar mitzvah when I wasn't Jewish didn't invalidate the fact that I was Catholic, and didn't "violate" anything that had to do with my Catholicism. I was learning about a tradition from another faith, and it was interesting.

Learning about other religions is not "state-sponsored indoctrination", nor should it be sneered upon as such.
 
2012-12-05 11:31:59 AM
That said, I have yet to find it during a search, but Nickelodeon had on during one of its Christmas season bumps in between shows probably between 2003 and 2004, it was a Rugrats mini-episode that was a play on the Merry Christmas Charlie Brown, complete with Linus's soliloquy delivered by Tommy, which ended with Angelica saying "You stupid babies! That's not what Christmas is about! It's about the presents!" And then the babies all say, "Oh yeah" and go about playing.

Anyone else remember that?
 
2012-12-05 11:32:00 AM
Charlie Brown Christmas?

This is what Linus meant to say.

/seen this dozens of times
//will watch it dozens more
///must I always be aloooooooone?
 
2012-12-05 11:32:07 AM

kronicfeld: The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene


Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


This and that. I'm as atheist as they come, but this weekend the wife and I went and picked out a tree and we watched the Charlie Brown Christmas Special while decorating it. Nothing wrong with that. Until you are a public school using public funds. As was also mentioned, if they had gone to a mosque the farsenews crowd would have been losing their minds.
 
2012-12-05 11:32:52 AM

WhippingBoy: If your Atheism is so weak that your child will be converted by going to a church, then you've failed as a parent.


That is most definitely not the point.
 
2012-12-05 11:33:35 AM

Keeve: They interviewed representatives from the church, the school district and the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers. Where exactly does it say that it was the church that initially called the media?


They were free to go forward with the field trip if they wanted? Why would they cancel if they didn't want to make a big f*cking deal about it?
 
2012-12-05 11:33:39 AM

IAmRight: If you're militant about, well, virtually anything involving beliefs and other people's thoughts, you should go off yourself. Intolerant atheists are just as annoying as intolerant Christians - love how many of them in this thread automatically assume "oh hey, look, I bet those other people hate Muslims!" to deflect their whininess.

/not militant because the extent of my outrage is typing this post
//and honestly, I started yawning by the end of typing it


"Militant" with respect to "atheist" is usually just an epithet used to encourage backpedaling and meekness. Which is funny, since apparently the meek get to inherit the Earth. At this point, "militant" is used to describe any atheist with a voiced opinion.
 
2012-12-05 11:33:57 AM

FauxReal: Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig

I didn't make it and I'm not gonna try to shop it clean. But it fits what you posted, so here it is.
[i.imgur.com image 536x600]


I'm stealing this for facebook. I expect some outrage from bible thumper friends. Hopefully a few drop me.
 
2012-12-05 11:33:59 AM

AbbeySomeone: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.
Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.

Religious people give us plenty of reason to loathe them as well but I have watched that show every year since it came out.


Obviously you DNRTFA.

FTA: The cancellation came as the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers told television station KATV they had received legal advice on pursuing a possible lawsuit against the Little Rock School District.

Unless some of the parents are members of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers, the parents weren't the ones protesting.
 
2012-12-05 11:34:02 AM
Oh, and for some more historical basis on why claiming Mithra was born on the 25th is silly:

In the 100 ADs, Mithra was often referred to as "Deus Sol Invictus Mithras", or "The Invincible Sun God Mithras." As a result, he is often confused with Sol Invictus (as I did earlier), who was the official Sun God of the Roman Empire starting about 175 years later. From there, people grab onto the fact that there was a ceremony held in 354 AD, on December 25th, entitled "Natalis Invicti", which was a celebration of Sol Invictus. "Natalis Invicti" can possibly be translated as "The birth of the Invicible", or it could simply imply that a temple was being dedicated. That is it. That is the entire basis for the people in this thread claiming that Mithra or Sol Invictus were "born" on the 25th, though why the Romans would think that the sun had a birthday is not entirely clear.
 
2012-12-05 11:34:06 AM
Oh brother...
 
2012-12-05 11:34:11 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: R.A.Danny: This is what it is all about

Still gives me chills

It's all about shiatty animation (and trolling, apparently) for you?

You have an odd relationship with your god.


I repented.
 
2012-12-05 11:34:29 AM
I wonder if this same parent that complained would have gone on how wonderfully culturally enlightening this field trip was if the play was about the Muslim, Buddhist or other than Christian religion?
 
2012-12-05 11:34:41 AM

Epicedion: At this point, "militant" is used to describe any atheist with a voiced opinion.


Exactly. The only atheist they can tolerate is one who just bends over the takes it in the behind. Anything else, and you're "militant".
 
2012-12-05 11:35:02 AM

xanadian: Mmm hmm. Nothing all that religious about Santa, really. Not anymore. He's as secular an icon as you get these days (despite his roots in Saint Nicholas).


STFU, my way-too-religious wife is anti-Santa because he detracts from the "true meaning" so I'm trying to make her be okay with Santa for our daughter because he is pretty damn allegorical to the Christian version of God.

/oh gee, a bearded man of indeterminate age who can bend time and space at his will and lives in an unfindable location (well, I mean, now we can find the North Pole relatively easily, but still) in order to reward good kids that believe in him and are good, nope, no correlation whatsoever.

Lord Dimwit: As someone who was non-religious in an extremely religious small town, not "volunteering" to go on this trip meant social suicide.


Sometimes in life you have to sit through sh*t you don't enjoy to make other people happy.
 
2012-12-05 11:35:08 AM

Mugato: At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.


Please note that "It's Mothafu(king Ramadan, Charlie Brown" does exist, along with other classics like "Beware the Easter nubian, Charlie Brown".

http://www.mostoffensivevideo.com/

They're all much, much better than the originals.
 
2012-12-05 11:35:46 AM

MBrady: Unless some of the parents are members of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers, the parents weren't the ones protesting.


According to the article, a parent contacted the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers.
 
2012-12-05 11:35:51 AM

Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.


Ill give you both 10/10 to shut up.
 
2012-12-05 11:35:59 AM

Coco LaFemme: Marcintosh: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

and this is why atheists hate religion - most adherents to any particular religion seem to be blissfully unaware that another view point exists and if they ARE aware the adherents are dismissive of that view point.

Think about the quandary of a muslim family might be in here - allow the kid to go and violate their religious feelings etc or deny their kid the trip and wonder if he'll be ostracized for it.

These two trivial points are just that - trivial points - there very well could be other far more important issues in play.

On the surface it seems harmless enough but it in fact introduces a complication into others lives that just doesn't need to be there and in fact shouldn't be there.

So yeah, cultural and religious ignorance sucks and in todays United States, shouldn't be there.

Plus, it's that crappy Chuck Brown schlock - I've had it up to here with that dead guys cartoons - bring back Prince Valium

I was raised Catholic. I no longer am, but that's beside the point. I was raised Catholic, and often was exposed to non-Catholic teachings, whether it was from visiting another faith's place of worship or learning about it in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING. How can you claim to be devoutly religious, yet the mere exposure to someone else's faith can make you suddenly question your own? Attending a bar mitzvah when I wasn't Jewish didn't invalidate the fact that I was Catholic, and didn't "violate" anything that had to do with my Catholicism. I was learning about a tradition from another faith, and it was interesting.

Learning about other religions is not "state-sponsored indoctrination", nor should it be sneered upon as such.


You must not know what it's like to be a Muslim in a primarily christian area. Here: educate yourself (audio, 33 min, transcript available).

/Consider yourself fortunate to live in an area a little bit more tolerant than the norm.
 
2012-12-05 11:36:13 AM

Coco LaFemme: I was raised Catholic. I no longer am, but that's beside the point. I was raised Catholic, and often was exposed to non-Catholic teachings, whether it was from visiting another faith's place of worship or learning about it in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING.


Yes, we get it, you're incredibly smart and privileged and every experience you could possibly have is ultimately spinnable into some positive life-affirming wondrous examination of the self.

Over here in reality, uncomfortable shiat is often just uncomfortable. And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.
 
2012-12-05 11:36:35 AM

Epicedion: "Militant" with respect to "atheist" is usually just an epithet used to encourage backpedaling and meekness. Which is funny, since apparently the meek get to inherit the Earth. At this point, "militant" is used to describe any atheist with a voiced opinion.


Threatening lawsuits isn't voicing an opinion.

/would be up for killing many people who file dumbass lawsuits of non-religious nature, too
 
2012-12-05 11:36:37 AM

R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.

Perhaps you are genuinely wounded at the mere mention of Jesus. Mea culpa.


I believe the saying is "turn the other cheek".
 
2012-12-05 11:36:54 AM
No more performances of A Christmas Carol either unless Tiny Tim's line famous line is struck from the production.

Jesus Christ Superstar? Do you even have to ask?
 
2012-12-05 11:36:55 AM

mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: FloydA: doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.

Apatheist

Hey, that's me too. I give not one rat's wet asshole about anyone else's religious beliefs, and I have no desire to try and change people's minds about what they believe. Just mind your own farking business.

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about what people believe and wishes them to just mind their own farking business, you sure do spend a lot of time trying convince them that they're wrong.


I don't spend any time trying to convince a Christian (or someone from any other faith) that they are wrong to be Christian, and as an atheist I am right. I have never done that once, either on Fark, or off it. I don't proselytize, nor do I have any desire to.
 
2012-12-05 11:36:58 AM

Carn: FauxReal: Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig

I didn't make it and I'm not gonna try to shop it clean. But it fits what you posted, so here it is.
[i.imgur.com image 536x600]

I'm stealing this for facebook. I expect some outrage from bible thumper friends. Hopefully a few drop me.


Except a lot of those aren't true, as I've already made clear about Mithra.

Oh, and for the Mistletoe and the druidic thing, here's a Pliny quote about it (shamelessly stolen from Wiki)

"The druids - that is what they call their magicians - hold nothing more sacred than the mistletoe and a tree on which it is growing, provided it is Valonia Oak.... Mistletoe is rare and when found it is gathered with great ceremony, and particularly on the sixth day of the moon....Hailing the moon in a native word that means 'healing all things,' they prepare a ritual sacrifice and banquet beneath a tree and bring up two white bulls, whose horns are bound for the first time on this occasion. A priest arrayed in white vestments climbs the tree and, with a golden sickle, cuts down the mistletoe, which is caught in a white cloak. Then finally they kill the victims, praying to a god to render his gift propitious to those on whom he has bestowed it. They believe that mistletoe given in drink will impart fertility to any animal that is barren and that it is an antidote to all poisons"

Not really "kissing under the mistletoe", is it?
 
2012-12-05 11:37:08 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people religious zealots hate atheists.

 
2012-12-05 11:37:13 AM
Never make atheists mad, they have a power more hated than Satan himself. Lawyers.
 
2012-12-05 11:37:37 AM

SilentStrider: Agnostic here.
A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of the few times where I get to feel like a kid at Christmastime. Given that I'm in my 30's, I cherish this. Because those moments are few and far between.
So if anyone has a problem with Charlie Brown, and my love of it, I say to you this: SCREW YOU.


Amen Damn skippy! I have watched it almost every year for as long as
I can remember. My youngest starts getting excited around the beginning of Noveber
because he knows it's going to be on in a few weeks. He did a program search almost
two weeks ago or more to make sure he had it set up to record. Same thing with the
Thanksgiving special and the Mayflower special.

The end of CBC still makes my eyes tear up to this day. I'm a sap that way.

[CSB time]

My youngest went as Charlie Brown for Halloween -- Charlie Brown from It's The Great
Pumpkin Charlie Brown. I grabbed a sheet, cut a bunch of holes in it and gave him a
candy bukkit that had a sign on it that said:

I am Charlie Brown. No rocks please.

He made out like a bandit this year :)

[/end CSB]
 
2012-12-05 11:37:38 AM
The atheist f*cks are more annoying than the pastor of Westboro Baptist!

what a bunch of sand-in-the-vagina pussy f*cks.

I'm not Catholic but I don't shiat my pants every time I see the Pope on the news.

Atheists SHOULD have the most civic-minded, volunteering, charity-based values. After all, no higher power - all we got is each other.

Instead, they poop their panties over a cartoon that is over 47 years old. Instead, they're bigger dicks to their own (you know...people?), on a daily basis, than ANY other faith-based belief system (because oh yeah, atheism is faith-based).

Jeebus, are you atheist f*ckers too lazy to use the remote? Because there are a LOT of TV programs that are on at any one point in time. Or try something more mentally stimulating like...reading, or have a hobby other than biatching about the irrelevant and watching TV shows you hate... 

Just a little suggestion for those whose stick up their arse has a stick up its arse.
 
2012-12-05 11:37:40 AM

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


If you don't want your athiest hell bound child to go then don't sign the consent form.
 
2012-12-05 11:37:42 AM

Lollipop165: MBrady: Unless some of the parents are members of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers, the parents weren't the ones protesting.

According to the article, a parent contacted the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers.


Which is certainly headquartered somewhere outside of Arkansas
 
2012-12-05 11:38:02 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: R.A.Danny: This is what it is all about

Still gives me chills

It's all about shiatty animation (and trolling, apparently) for you?

You have an odd relationship with your god.


4.bp.blogspot.com
What Christmas is supposed to be about

c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com
What Christmas has been co-opted into

3.bp.blogspot.com
The ones who's festival was co-opted

2.bp.blogspot.com
The man that co-opted the date

/Merry Yule everyone.

NOTE: Celebrating anyone's birthday (Christ included) is considered a pagan tradition and frowned upon from a biblical perspective.
 
2012-12-05 11:38:11 AM

Coco LaFemme: mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: FloydA: doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.

Apatheist

Hey, that's me too. I give not one rat's wet asshole about anyone else's religious beliefs, and I have no desire to try and change people's minds about what they believe. Just mind your own farking business.

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about what people believe and wishes them to just mind their own farking business, you sure do spend a lot of time trying convince them that they're wrong.

I don't spend any time trying to convince a Christian (or someone from any other faith) that they are wrong to be Christian, and as an atheist I am right. I have never done that once, either on Fark, or off it. I don't proselytize, nor do I have any desire to.


It wasn't the Christians to which I was referring.
 
2012-12-05 11:38:14 AM

xanadian: Pertifly: xanadian: Someone forgot to tell these "freethinkers" that they do not have a Constitutional right to not be offended.

I'm an atheist and love the Charlie Brown holiday specials. I actually came in here to poo-poo the article, because Atheist outrage goes overboard sometimes (sometimes, a lot of the time).

But having a public school shuttle kids to a church to watch it... that's different than just watching it in the privacy of your own home. And it's illegal.

Valid, and I said so earlier, after I processed the whole article with my brain cell. Doesn't help that the very first paragraph says the group protested the PLAY and didn't mention that they were protesting the CHURCH for hosting the play. TFA initially said they just had a problem with the play.

Once again, though, this is FAUX NEWS, and they spin it to win it.




One of my favorite FOX moves was when they made all that noise about the "Ground Zero Mosque" being built near ground zero when there was already one within 4 blocks. Also the one being built was financed by Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal... who happened to be the second largest News Corp. (FOX's parent company) stockholder.

The station has a collectively dim view of muslims so it wasn't necessarily ironic that they were hating on one of their biggest financiers who's family is close with their favorite Presidential dynasty that runs a deeply religiously conservative country that provides the 2nd most of our oil imports. 

But I thought it was funny.
 
2012-12-05 11:38:24 AM

IAmRight: Threatening lawsuits isn't voicing an opinion.


I love how suing something for something they should be sued for has become somehow wrong.
 
2012-12-05 11:39:01 AM

citoriman: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people religious zealots hate atheists.


Charlie Brown and his insidious plan to establish a theocracy. Will that little bastard stop at nothing?
 
2012-12-05 11:39:33 AM
It's Fox News, so I will take this with a grain of salt.

I love Christmas, but anymore I feel like the only 20-something that does. I don't get all the hate surrounding Christmas, how people groan about it and see it as a chore.

This is my first Christmas were I'm not going home and my Hubby is a Christmas hater. I miss having someone to share my enthusiasm with. :(

/Farking love Christmas Specials
//I'll get down with any other solstice-based celebration as well, the more the merrier!
 
2012-12-05 11:39:43 AM
Thorak

Smartest

Funniest

2012-12-05 11:22:10 AM

kerryclendenon: Sounds like derp on all sides. The War on Christmas, and Fox's War on the War on Christmas. As long as all eyes are open and minds as well that this is a time of celebration of many cultures - pagans, Christians, Jews, etc, and all cultures are given equal weight in telling their stories, I am fine with it. I think the Atheist militance against traditions is annoying and makes me embarrassed to be an atheist. And Fox News's attempt at emphasizing their butt hurt over this is also embarrassing. Both sides need to chill out.

Separation of Church and State.

This is not a complicated or new issue. Those saying it's not a big deal and "atheists" should chill out are just completely missing the point; this has nothing to do with atheism, this has to do with the state sponsoring one faith over others. It's a constitutional breach. There's an issue here, but that issue is this; why do these Christians hate the Constitution and thus America?

A: I do not see this as an underwriting of a particular religion, or as an establishment of a national religion, because a local school, run but a local authority, decided to take kids who voluntarily agreed to go, to a play, where one of the actors accurately quotes a book, in describing the reason for the very holiday that a certain group of people follow. Christmas is a holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus, a character in a series of religious stories.

B: there is nothing of the bigger picture in this article that I saw. Was this a social studies field trip? A look at culture? Was an overt ploy to wash kids in the blood of christ? Were there other opportunities to see Native American re-enactments of religious ceremonies? Who knows? This is not a reason to get your panties in a bundle.

When the derpy Christian right wants to overturn national law because some little tribe of people - surrounded by people who hated them - said it was bad - that's something to get mad about. Arguing over a school, run by a locality, transporting volunteers to a play, is going way overboard.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:15 AM
Jon Stewart covered the Faux Nuze "War on Christmas" quite nicely.

Link
 
2012-12-05 11:40:27 AM

WhippingBoy: So we live in a society where grown men watching "My Little Pony" should be celebrated


No, we don't. Brony-ism is stupid.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:31 AM

R.A.Danny: Cythraul: R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.

Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.

So you DO believe?


You're brilliant. I will use that one in the future.

Damn atheists, acting like their nonbelief is a religion. I know some atheists that are more evangelical than any Christians I know. "None of the above" does not get equal representation.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:34 AM
Many "atheists" are really just anti-Christian religious bigots. Calling yourself an "atheist" just makes it sound better.

Their entire goal is not being comfortable in their own beliefs but to cause as much angst as possible for those they disagree with.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:35 AM

sethen320: Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.

Ill give you both 10/10 to shut up.


-threeve/10
 
2012-12-05 11:40:45 AM
My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:49 AM

Gentoolive: minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?

Yes, but this is textbook libtard atheist. If they don't like something, they must make sure NOONE else can make their own decissions.


Fark off with the politics.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:52 AM

FauxReal: xanadian: Pertifly: xanadian: Someone forgot to tell these "freethinkers" that they do not have a Constitutional right to not be offended.

I'm an atheist and love the Charlie Brown holiday specials. I actually came in here to poo-poo the article, because Atheist outrage goes overboard sometimes (sometimes, a lot of the time).

But having a public school shuttle kids to a church to watch it... that's different than just watching it in the privacy of your own home. And it's illegal.

Valid, and I said so earlier, after I processed the whole article with my brain cell. Doesn't help that the very first paragraph says the group protested the PLAY and didn't mention that they were protesting the CHURCH for hosting the play. TFA initially said they just had a problem with the play.

Once again, though, this is FAUX NEWS, and they spin it to win it.



One of my favorite FOX moves was when they made all that noise about the "Ground Zero Mosque" being built near ground zero when there was already one within 4 blocks. Also the one being built was financed by Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal... who happened to be the second largest News Corp. (FOX's parent company) stockholder.

The station has a collectively dim view of muslims so it wasn't necessarily ironic that they were hating on one of their biggest financiers who's family is close with their favorite Presidential dynasty that runs a deeply religiously conservative country that provides the 2nd most of our oil imports. 

But I thought it was funny.


There's a reason they never said the name of the financial backer of the mosque on their program.
 
2012-12-05 11:40:54 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


The important thing here is to lump all atheists in with the extreme ones. You know, just like all religious people want to jihad themselves with a vest full of dynamite.
 
2012-12-05 11:41:01 AM

doczoidberg: I'm an atheist, and this shiat annoys the hell out of me.
Why do atheists have to act like such a-holes?

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.


Thank you! Me too!
 
2012-12-05 11:41:08 AM

shortymac: It's Fox News, so I will take this with a grain of salt.

I love Christmas, but anymore I feel like the only 20-something that does. I don't get all the hate surrounding Christmas, how people groan about it and see it as a chore.

This is my first Christmas were I'm not going home and my Hubby is a Christmas hater. I miss having someone to share my enthusiasm with. :(

/Farking love Christmas Specials
//I'll get down with any other solstice-based celebration as well, the more the merrier!


let the boy watch part of Rudolph last night for the first time. I haven't seen it in years. It's really weird. He was mesmerized though.
 
2012-12-05 11:41:10 AM

jaybeezey: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

If you don't want your athiest hell bound child to go then don't sign the consent form.


Yeahno. If the school wanted to take children to see Billy Graham give a sermon at a megachurch, they can't just claim it's voluntary. Doesn't work that way.
 
2012-12-05 11:41:17 AM
I don't entirely agree with the complaint in question, but seriously guys, if this is the worst oppression "Militant Atheists" are capable of, I'm less than terrorized.
 
2012-12-05 11:41:33 AM

Gentoolive: minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?

Yes, but this is textbook libtard atheist. If they don't like something, they must make sure NOONE else can make their own decissions.


Your lack of proper spelling gives you away as an uneducated hick, and the fundie approach seals the deal. Go beat your Bible over in the Middle East where the rest of the bigots, moral police, and religious nuts live.
 
2012-12-05 11:42:17 AM

mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: Marcintosh: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

and this is why atheists hate religion - most adherents to any particular religion seem to be blissfully unaware that another view point exists and if they ARE aware the adherents are dismissive of that view point.

Think about the quandary of a muslim family might be in here - allow the kid to go and violate their religious feelings etc or deny their kid the trip and wonder if he'll be ostracized for it.

These two trivial points are just that - trivial points - there very well could be other far more important issues in play.

On the surface it seems harmless enough but it in fact introduces a complication into others lives that just doesn't need to be there and in fact shouldn't be there.

So yeah, cultural and religious ignorance sucks and in todays United States, shouldn't be there.

Plus, it's that crappy Chuck Brown schlock - I've had it up to here with that dead guys cartoons - bring back Prince Valium

I was raised Catholic. I no longer am, but that's beside the point. I was raised Catholic, and often was exposed to non-Catholic teachings, whether it was from visiting another faith's place of worship or learning about it in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING. How can you claim to be devoutly religious, yet the mere exposure to someone else's faith can make you suddenly question your own? Attending a bar mitzvah when I wasn't Jewish didn't invalidate the fact that I was Catholic, and didn't "violate" anything that had to do with my Catholicism. I was learning about a tradition from another faith, and it was interesting.

Learning about other religions is not "state-sponsored indoctrination", nor should it be sneered upon as such.

You must not know what it's like to be a Muslim in a primarily christian area. Here: educate yourself (audio, 33 min, transcript available).

/Consider yourself fortunate to live in an area a little bit more tolerant than the norm.


I don't live in a tolerant area. Where I live and where I grew up are not the same thing. I grew up in Chicago, IL and currently live in Redneckville, NC. And no, seeing as I was a Catholic and now are not, I don't know what it's like to be Muslim. Or any other faith. I do however, know what it was like for my friends growing up who were not Christians, and they had a rough road. Not because of their specific faith, but just because they weren't Christians. It's ugly and unnecessary, and not a quality about some people in this country I like.

Epicedion: Coco LaFemme: I was raised Catholic. I no longer am, but that's beside the point. I was raised Catholic, and often was exposed to non-Catholic teachings, whether it was from visiting another faith's place of worship or learning about it in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING.

Yes, we get it, you're incredibly smart and privileged and every experience you could possibly have is ultimately spinnable into some positive life-affirming wondrous examination of the self.

Over here in reality, uncomfortable shiat is often just uncomfortable. And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.


I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.
 
2012-12-05 11:42:20 AM

probesport: And so this is Christmas?


What have we done?
 
2012-12-05 11:42:22 AM

FauxReal: But I thought it was funny.


Nobody said those at Fox News was bright...

/love your handle, btw
 
2012-12-05 11:42:49 AM

Rincewind53: though why the Romans would think that the sun had a birthday is not entirely clear.


They liked to drink wine out of cups containing a shiatload of lead.
 
2012-12-05 11:42:53 AM
Most atheists enjoy this alongside Christians. It's this new cult of atheism, that ridicule, mock and make everyone else think their controlling, oppressive arseholes. Old school atheists are cool because they don't give a crap. They like what they like but the cult of whine...I mean atheism are a bunch of whiners.
 
2012-12-05 11:42:54 AM

xanadian: sethen320: Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.

Ill give you both 10/10 to shut up.

-threeve/10


5/0

Oh shi...,
 
2012-12-05 11:43:15 AM
Ok, this thread was fun. Now, I have to rush off to cook my Hanukkah ham. I'm f*cking hungry.
 
2012-12-05 11:43:26 AM

DaCaptain19: The atheist f*cks are more annoying than the pastor of Westboro Baptist!


I don't believe you.
 
2012-12-05 11:44:18 AM

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


Notice the "outrage" is coming from the Christian right? No "outrage" from atheists. Just a request. It's the "you MUST allow us to indoctrinate your kids" people who are "outraged"...
 
2012-12-05 11:44:24 AM

Hickory-smoked: I don't entirely agree with the complaint in question, but seriously guys, if this is the worst oppression "Militant Atheists" are capable of, I'm less than terrorized.


True. Militant atheists have the worst defense budget.
 
2012-12-05 11:44:24 AM

Mugato: Why can't they just go to a performance of Die Hard? That's an awesome Christmas movie that doesn't offend anyone. Except maybe Germans. But fark them.



bristle.files.wordpress.com

Mommy! They killed Santa!
 
2012-12-05 11:44:27 AM

BronyMedic: Lets try this again. A Charlie Brown Kwanzaa (NSFW)


That's ... wow... :) But why is the Swedish Chef singing the intro?

/ Bork bork...bork?
 
2012-12-05 11:44:37 AM
Again, the very same people championing this silly play at the local church would set themselves on fire in outrage, if the play had to do with a non-christian belief system.

This is all about pushing a particular belief system with the local government's approval. And it's not right, even if the religion in question is the dominant one in this country.
 
2012-12-05 11:45:15 AM
All I want is what I... I have coming to me. All I want is my fair share
s10.postimage.org 

\bunch of Sallies in this thread.
 
2012-12-05 11:45:23 AM

MilesTeg: Many "atheists" are really just anti-Christian religious bigots. Calling yourself an "atheist" just makes it sound better.

Their entire goal is not being comfortable in their own beliefs but to cause as much angst as possible for those they disagree with.


"Many". Sure, yeah, you should go with that.
 
2012-12-05 11:45:31 AM

xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


So when is the voluntary field trip to the local mosque during Ramadan scheduled?
 
2012-12-05 11:45:32 AM

Coco LaFemme: I don't proselytize, nor do I have any desire to.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*takes deep breath"

AHJAHHAHAHAHAHA.

What the hell have you been doing up and down this thread then?
 
2012-12-05 11:45:43 AM

Coco LaFemme: I don't live in a tolerant area. Where I live and where I grew up are not the same thing. I grew up in Chicago, IL and currently live in Redneckville, NC. And no, seeing as I was a Catholic and now are not, I don't know what it's like to be Muslim. Or any other faith. I do however, know what it was like for my friends growing up who were not Christians, and they had a rough road. Not because of their specific faith, but just because they weren't Christians. It's ugly and unnecessary, and not a quality about some people in this country I like.


So you do know what it's like, because you've seen people go through it, and yet you still think it's ok for even more non-christian kids to become ostracized by being a non-christian faith. Alright then.

/Obviously I was referring to where you when to high school; are you seriously this obtuse, or are you just trolling?
 
2012-12-05 11:45:45 AM

IAmRight: /why don't other religions put on entertaining shows?



Because they don't have the hubristic crassness to show off how great their religion is to others in an effort to popularize and proselytize?

/the others either leave alone or kill nonbelievers, christians convert
 
2012-12-05 11:45:47 AM
I'm torn. As an atheist, my blood is always up against actual dangerous meshing of church and state, such as creationism in public schools. However Christmas has effectively become a secular holiday, whatever the etymology of it's name may be. Easter is named for a pagan deity, but no one doubts that it is Christian. Why can't it go the other way? If a bunch of kids want to decorate a tree and sing Jingle Bells, let them have at it. Even when we do reach a post-religion society, Christian roots in our culture will still always remain an important part of our history.
 
2012-12-05 11:45:49 AM

t3knomanser: This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?


When I was in school we used to make a field trip to different temples and churches of many faiths and denominations. It was important to by understanding of other people and their culture. I do not believe that the state or a school has the right to force you to pray to or give money to any god or church. I do however believe that we could become a much better society if we learned more about each other's traditions and learned to respect them.
 
2012-12-05 11:46:13 AM

FlashHarry: hello? yes, this is atheist.

i love a charlie brown christmas. and the biblical content doesn't bother me one bit. it's just as fictional as the rest of the story, but it's sweet in its intent. sometimes people should just STFU and relax.


You really don't get it. Some people actually care about the separation of church and state from a moral perspective. Bringing a school to church violates that. If every "athesit" was like you and just STFU and relaxed, Christians would have us living in the 1500's by now.
 
2012-12-05 11:46:18 AM

Carn: FauxReal: Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig

I didn't make it and I'm not gonna try to shop it clean. But it fits what you posted, so here it is.
[i.imgur.com image 536x600]

I'm stealing this for facebook. I expect some outrage from bible thumper friends. Hopefully a few drop me.


if they do, then they don't know their Bible anyway... that picture is a whole lot of fact.
 
2012-12-05 11:46:32 AM

MilesTeg: Many "atheists" are really just anti-Christian religious bigots. Calling yourself an "atheist" just makes it sound better.

Their entire goal is not being comfortable in their own beliefs but to cause as much angst as possible for those they disagree with.


Ah, the "They're all terrorists bent on destroying our freedom and liberty" argument. Haven't seen that used in a while, thanks for the nostalgia!
 
hej
2012-12-05 11:46:48 AM
"We're not waging a war," said LeeWood Thomas, a spokesman for the group. "We're basically calling a foul against the separation of church and state."

That's some serious outrage there, subbs.
 
2012-12-05 11:47:06 AM

mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: FloydA: doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.

Apatheist

Hey, that's me too. I give not one rat's wet asshole about anyone else's religious beliefs, and I have no desire to try and change people's minds about what they believe. Just mind your own farking business.

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about what people believe and wishes them to just mind their own farking business, you sure do spend a lot of time trying convince them that they're wrong.

I don't spend any time trying to convince a Christian (or someone from any other faith) that they are wrong to be Christian, and as an atheist I am right. I have never done that once, either on Fark, or off it. I don't proselytize, nor do I have any desire to.

It wasn't the Christians to which I was referring.


That's funny, because I was talking about religion. I don't argue with people over matters of religious belief, because that's futile and a waste of time. Don't spin what I was saying to fit something else, then accuse me of doing the opposite. I do not try and change someone's mind about what they believe, re: religion. Now, if you think Pink Floyd sucks, I will try and change your mind about that.
 
2012-12-05 11:47:21 AM

Coco LaFemme: I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.


Well apparently you get to live in a world where everything is a magical learning experience full of learning and magic.

Look, it's an indictment of your "but but but they'll learn something" shtick and not intended to be an accurate assessment of your life story. You're acting like everything is okay because everything can be learned from, which is great if you live on Sesame Street but doesn't necessarily translate to reality. Often times you just get punched in the eye. But in your view, learning how to drain fluids from around your own black eye might be a positive learning experience.
 
2012-12-05 11:47:33 AM
Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.
 
2012-12-05 11:47:35 AM

enry: My employer (a liberal organization in the heathen area of Cambridge, MA that rhymes with "Schmarvard") hates Christmas so much, they told us to not show up to work starting close of business Dec 21 and don't want to see us again until Jan 2. And they have the nerve to pay us for it!

/woot


IAmRight:

Mine too!

/rhymes with Schmornell
//actually was known as the heathen/godless school since all the other Ivies were founded by religious types
///LET'S COMPLAIN ABOUT OUR WEEK-PLUS OF FREE VACATION TO VISIT OUR FAMILIES


Thirded!

/Rhymes with..um...Schmithaca College
//Could be worse - could rhyme with schmortland!
 
2012-12-05 11:47:38 AM

MilesTeg: Many "atheists" are really just anti-Christian religious bigots. Calling yourself an "atheist" just makes it sound better hipster.

Their entire goal is not being comfortable in their own beliefs but to cause as much angst as possible for those they disagree with.


FTFY. And, you are, of course, absolutely correct. I've known atheists all my life and they've always fought for the preservation of church and state. Only recently have they become outraged douche bags, pushing their beliefs onto everyone else. They are no different than the born-againers they so despise.
 
2012-12-05 11:47:48 AM
This is cultural censorship! I am not a Christian, however we cannot censor culture. Many plays, books, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art have religious themes; does that mean they should not be seen? Should we stop teaching Algebra because it was created by a Muslim and pushed forward through Islam? Is a class allowed to see paintings by Da Vinci as many of them contain Christian themes? This is the same concept of censoring school libraries because you disagree with the moral principals of a book.
 
2012-12-05 11:48:05 AM

sethen320: Rincewind53: R.A.Danny: Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

Down to about 4/10

I rate your attempt to classify me as a troll at about a 2/10.

Ill give you both 10/10 to shut up.


now that's just cheating... only pocketninja gets 10s... O.o
 
2012-12-05 11:48:10 AM

Coco LaFemme: mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: mgshamster: Coco LaFemme: FloydA: doczoidberg:

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.

Apatheist

Hey, that's me too. I give not one rat's wet asshole about anyone else's religious beliefs, and I have no desire to try and change people's minds about what they believe. Just mind your own farking business.

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about what people believe and wishes them to just mind their own farking business, you sure do spend a lot of time trying convince them that they're wrong.

I don't spend any time trying to convince a Christian (or someone from any other faith) that they are wrong to be Christian, and as an atheist I am right. I have never done that once, either on Fark, or off it. I don't proselytize, nor do I have any desire to.

It wasn't the Christians to which I was referring.

That's funny, because I was talking about religion. I don't argue with people over matters of religious belief, because that's futile and a waste of time. Don't spin what I was saying to fit something else, then accuse me of doing the opposite. I do not try and change someone's mind about what they believe, re: religion. Now, if you think Pink Floyd sucks, I will try and change your mind about that.


I was talking about the other atheists (which, while not a religion, is still on the subject of religions). Wow, you really are this obtuse, aren't you?
 
2012-12-05 11:48:36 AM

kerryclendenon: A: I do not see this as an underwriting of a particular religion, or as an establishment of a national religion, because a local school, run but a local authority, decided to take kids who voluntarily agreed to go, to a play, where one of the actors accurately quotes a book, in describing the reason for the very holiday that a certain group of people follow. Christmas is a holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus, a character in a series of religious stories.

You just stated that you don't see it as an underwriting of a particular religion, and then proceeded to describe in detail why it IS underwriting a particular religion and thus is a breach of Constitutional law.

It's a religious film, being shown in a church. There are no circumstances where this would be "okay" for a public school, unless it was part of a religious studies program where they were making similar trips to various other religious institutions.

That it was "voluntary" is irrelevant. It can't be offered as an option. Separation of Church and State.


When the derpy Christian right wants to overturn national law because some little tribe of people - surrounded by people who hated them - said it was bad - that's something to get mad about. Arguing over a school, run by a locality, transporting volunteers to a play, is going way overboard.

It's a public, government-run school. It's transporting students, unless they opt out, to a religious play.

If you ignore the necessary context, sure, you can portray this as not a big deal. Kind of like if we were discussing a school that led students in a Bible reading every morning, and you'd written it up as a "voluntary recitation from a historical text". You're not making a point, you're deliberately obfuscating the facts to mislead.

 
2012-12-05 11:48:51 AM

Tommy Moo: I'm torn. As an atheist, my blood is always up against actual dangerous meshing of church and state, such as creationism in public schools. However Christmas has effectively become a secular holiday, whatever the etymology of it's name may be. Easter is named for a pagan deity, but no one doubts that it is Christian. Why can't it go the other way? If a bunch of kids want to decorate a tree and sing Jingle Bells, let them have at it. Even when we do reach a post-religion society, Christian roots in our culture will still always remain an important part of our history.


It's not about the roots of xmas, it's about the fact that they put on a play at a church that has a rather long and detailed recitation of religious scripture regarding the linchpin of that religion, it's savior figure's birth.

No one would have had any issue if they'd shown the 'movie' at school without the Linus Speech included.
 
2012-12-05 11:48:56 AM

Tommy Moo: Christmas has effectively become a secular holiday,


Christmas is still Christian. The secularists just don't get the benefits of eternal life like the believers do.
 
2012-12-05 11:49:02 AM

Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.


Which one were you?? Orange Shirt??!?!

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-05 11:49:17 AM

Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.


That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.
 
2012-12-05 11:49:18 AM

Lord Dimwit: doyner: "Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

Non-story, folks. Carving out a few hours from a public school day to take kids to a church to watch a story about how Linus and Charlie Brown are touched by the birth of Christ is clearly over the line.

As someone who was non-religious in an extremely religious small town, not "volunteering" to go on this trip meant social suicide.


I doubt it was about social ostracizing. It's more likely about spending government money to pay for a visit to a church to see a film that recites a Bible passage along with an proselytizing that may go on which could be considered a violation of the First Amendment.
 
2012-12-05 11:49:28 AM

Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


I would have an issue if it was the Christmas Story, but it's a Charlie Brown Christmas which despite Linus' Speech doesn't have that much religiosity to it.

It's like the controversy my school got into with choosing a church as our graduation hall, however, the church was chosen because it was the only hall nearby with AC that could fit our huge graduating class. Does that make it an issue for the separation of church and state?
 
2012-12-05 11:49:59 AM

ChipNASA: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

Which one were you?? Orange Shirt??!?!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 350x240]


that farker was cool!
 
2012-12-05 11:50:11 AM
I used to love this as a kid... back in the 70's when cartoons were few and far between.

Now... the voice acting makes my skin crawl.
 
2012-12-05 11:50:17 AM

Coco LaFemme: Now, if you think Pink Floyd sucks, I will try and change your mind about that.


Just play them the second set of Shine on You Crazy Diamond and highlight the bit where the organ note seamlessly transitions to electric guitar. Pretty awesome, that.
 
2012-12-05 11:50:22 AM
The War on Christmas (TM)

The War on Christmas is a trademark of img1.fark.net 

/ well this should be clear of sensationalist nonsense
 
2012-12-05 11:50:32 AM

sethen320: I believe the saying is "turn the other cheek".


I would not expect you to understand this because you are a hater, but actually the "turn the other cheek" phrase has been misinterpreted. The real meaning is more in line with the concept of not seeking vengeance rather than allowing oneself to be abused.
 
2012-12-05 11:50:50 AM

Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.


No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?
 
2012-12-05 11:50:51 AM

mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.


Oh shut up.
 
2012-12-05 11:51:00 AM

mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.


4/10. You managed to get Pascal's Wager in there and also got the complete misrepresentation of atheism right, but it seemed too obvious. Good try.
 
2012-12-05 11:51:35 AM

Mouthoy: /Rhymes with..um...Schmithaca College


And you are now favorited appropriately.
 
2012-12-05 11:51:46 AM
This being fark, I was expecting the hero tag
 
2012-12-05 11:51:54 AM

xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


Did you consider the fact that because of the atheists' religious beliefs, they are being forced to exclude themselves from a day of PUBLIC education?

By your logic, it would be OK to have public school taught in a church, by a priest, from the bible, because parents have the option to homeschool.
 
2012-12-05 11:52:36 AM

citoriman: You really don't get it. Some people actually care about the separation of church and state from a moral perspective. Bringing a school to church violates that. If every "athesit" was like you and just STFU and relaxed, Christians would have us living in the 1500's by now.


teach intelligent design in a publicly funded school? i'll be right with you at the barricades. but this charlie brown, for chrissakes (sorry, for FSM's sake). it's harmless.
 
2012-12-05 11:52:39 AM

mgshamster: So you do know what it's like, because you've seen people go through it, and yet you still think it's ok for even more non-christian kids to become ostracized by being a non-christian faith. Alright then.


The kids do not ostracize themselves. It is their farking icehole parents that use their kids to make a crappy political point and turn their kids into unlikeable turds.
 
2012-12-05 11:52:41 AM
Come on people, really?
 
2012-12-05 11:53:08 AM

Infernalist: No one would have had any issue if they'd shown the 'movie' at school without the Linus Speech included.


I'd think that was particularly stupid since it's the whole point of the story, whether you like it or not.
 
2012-12-05 11:53:38 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.


my...you're quite the asshole, aren't ya? Moan all you want, my point was I'm pretty damn sure the same people would throw the same fit over the same farking thing, dickhead.
 
2012-12-05 11:53:39 AM
Hitler would have been outraged at this too.
 
2012-12-05 11:54:44 AM

DaSwankOne: sethen320: I believe the saying is "turn the other cheek".

I would not expect you to understand this because you are a hater, but actually the "turn the other cheek" phrase has been misinterpreted. The real meaning is more in line with the concept of not seeking vengeance rather than allowing oneself to be abused.


It's a bit more "aggressive" than that. It's not meant to be a policy of passivity at all. It's more of a "go on, hit me again, you farker" kind of passive resistance thing.

If anything, it's the antithesis of being a victim. It's a statement about what makes the difference between being victimized, and becoming a martyr for your beliefs.
 
2012-12-05 11:55:07 AM

dkoucky: This is cultural censorship! I am not a Christian, however we cannot censor culture. Many plays, books, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art have religious themes; does that mean they should not be seen? Should we stop teaching Algebra because it was created by a Muslim and pushed forward through Islam? Is a class allowed to see paintings by Da Vinci as many of them contain Christian themes? This is the same concept of censoring school libraries because you disagree with the moral principals of a book.


Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?
 
2012-12-05 11:55:21 AM

The Ascent of Spam: This being fark, I was expecting the hero tag


This
 
2012-12-05 11:55:41 AM

AcneVulgaris: I used to love this as a kid... back in the 70's when cartoons were few and far between.

Now... the voice acting makes my skin crawl.


The voice acting is a bit spotty because Schulz was given very short notice to put this together, or so I read somewhere.
 
2012-12-05 11:56:02 AM

FlashHarry: citoriman: You really don't get it. Some people actually care about the separation of church and state from a moral perspective. Bringing a school to church violates that. If every "athesit" was like you and just STFU and relaxed, Christians would have us living in the 1500's by now.

teach intelligent design in a publicly funded school? i'll be right with you at the barricades. but this charlie brown, for chrissakes (sorry, for FSM's sake). it's harmless.

 
2012-12-05 11:56:13 AM

Epicedion: Coco LaFemme: I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

Well apparently you get to live in a world where everything is a magical learning experience full of learning and magic.

Look, it's an indictment of your "but but but they'll learn something" shtick and not intended to be an accurate assessment of your life story. You're acting like everything is okay because everything can be learned from, which is great if you live on Sesame Street but doesn't necessarily translate to reality. Often times you just get punched in the eye. But in your view, learning how to drain fluids from around your own black eye might be a positive learning experience.


No, not really. I don't think everything can be learned from, but I do think most things can. My parents raised my sister and I that way, because my grandparents didn't give two shiats about education, and my parents wanted us to be smarter than them. So they told us to always try and learn from what we were doing or what happened to us, good or bad. It doesn't always work. If you fall off your bike and break your leg because you're not paying attention to where you're going, which happened to me 13 years ago, what are you supposed to learn from that? Watch where you're going. If you get taken to a synagogue to see how Jews practice their faith, what are you supposed to learn from that? That the Jewish tradition is different from the __________ tradition, and that their faith is as rooted in culture the same as anyone else's. If someone punches you in the eye, what are you supposed to learn from that? I don't know, I've never been punched in the face before. Is there something learnable in that? Maybe. It could inspire you to learn self-defense so that you're not victimized again.
 
2012-12-05 11:56:21 AM
.
I'm sure everyone upset about this will be OK with the next field trip to a mosque during Ramadan. I'm sure the local muslims put on a great show as well.
 
2012-12-05 11:56:27 AM

BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.



Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.


Sorry, but that's highly inaccurate. I'm talking about the ones that go around protesting things like this that are harmless and fun.

I'm atheist and when my kids expressed an interest in things like sunday school and church based youth groups let them go and decide for themselves what they want to believe, rather than attempt to force my own belief system on them.
 
2012-12-05 11:56:44 AM

DaSwankOne: sethen320: I believe the saying is "turn the other cheek".

I would not expect you to understand this because you are a hater, but actually the "turn the other cheek" phrase has been misinterpreted. The real meaning is more in line with the concept of not seeking vengeance rather than allowing oneself to be abused.


many many people don't seem to get that picking things out of context is just plain dumb... then they use it as a talking point.
 
2012-12-05 11:56:48 AM

Coco LaFemme: Marcintosh: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

and this is why atheists hate religion - most adherents to any particular religion seem to be blissfully unaware that another view point exists and if they ARE aware the adherents are dismissive of that view point.

Think about the quandary of a muslim family might be in here - allow the kid to go and violate their religious feelings etc or deny their kid the trip and wonder if he'll be ostracized for it.

These two trivial points are just that - trivial points - there very well could be other far more important issues in play.

On the surface it seems harmless enough but it in fact introduces a complication into others lives that just doesn't need to be there and in fact shouldn't be there.

So yeah, cultural and religious ignorance sucks and in todays United States, shouldn't be there.

Plus, it's that crappy Chuck Brown schlock - I've had it up to here with that dead guys cartoons - bring back Prince Valium

I was raised Catholic. I no longer am, but that's beside the point. I was raised Catholic, and often was exposed to non-Catholic teachings, whether it was from visiting another faith's place of worship or learning about it in class. THAT'S THE POINT OF LEARNING. How can you claim to be devoutly religious, yet the mere exposure to someone else's faith can make you suddenly question your own? Attending a bar mitzvah when I wasn't Jewish didn't invalidate the fact that I was Catholic, and didn't "violate" anything that had to do with my Catholicism. I was learning about a tradition from another faith, and it was interesting.

Learning about other religions is not "state-sponsored indoctrination", nor should it be sneered upon as such.


I was raised in such a way as well.

The Muslim family is already exposed to a constant stream of Christianity in this country. More importantly, they are also exposed to the ideas and values of freedom. All the religious are. Seeing that the world didn't end when something their fathers and pastors were braying about seems to make them mellow as the generations pass.

We had at least two different courses in my public school (on in 7th grade and one as a senior) that were social studies courses that covered world religions. The guy that devoted an entire quarter to both Islam and Buddhism was shiat canned (albeit over an affair with an of age HS volleyball player), and the other guy was teaching a sociology class and presented one of the fairest discourses on world religions I've ever had, and that's including the course I had to take in college.

That is how you expose kids to the major world religions in a public school setting. Dispassionately and without proselytizing. The chance this field trip would be either is low.

We had a massive trip in 8th grade to DC where we also visited the National Cathedral, but we just toured. There was no service, no indoctrination, just a lot of questions about where the Darth Vader gargoyle was.
 
2012-12-05 11:57:37 AM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Yeah, because Fox takes the complaints of one asshole and makes it like we are all bunch of pricks. Screw the Conservative Mainstream Media.
 
2012-12-05 11:58:18 AM

mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.


That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?
 
2012-12-05 11:58:24 AM

Coco LaFemme: If someone punches you in the eye, what are you supposed to learn from that? I don't know, I've never been punched in the face before. Is there something learnable in that? Maybe. It could inspire you to learn self-defense so that you're not victimized again.


Are you being deliberately obtuse

www.scene-stealers.com

or are you just blind to figurative language?
 
2012-12-05 11:58:29 AM

Epicedion: Look, it's an indictment of your "but but but they'll learn something" shtick and not intended to be an accurate assessment of your life story. You're acting like everything is okay because everything can be learned from, which is great if you live on Sesame Street but doesn't necessarily translate to reality. Often times you just get punched in the eye. But in your view, learning how to drain fluids from around your own black eye might be a positive learning experience


So watching a local production of A Charlie Brown Christmas is the equivalent of taking an ass beating? Seriously guy go back to 4chan.
 
2012-12-05 11:58:30 AM

FlashHarry: i'll be right with you at the barricades. but this charlie brown, for chrissakes (sorry, for FSM's sake). it's harmless.


It's Charlie Brown as shown at their local church under the guidance of a pastor.

Why can't the kids watch the movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?
 
2012-12-05 11:58:44 AM
Just privatize all schools. Get the government out of education and these constitutional issues go away.

/Athiest.
//Celebrates Christmas. Would let my kid see Charlie Brown Christmas.
 
2012-12-05 11:59:02 AM

citoriman: xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

Did you consider the fact that because of the atheists' religious beliefs, they are being forced to exclude themselves from a day of PUBLIC education?

By your logic, it would be OK to have public school taught in a church, by a priest, from the bible, because parents have the option to homeschool.


that would certainly make an interesting math or home-economics class...
 
2012-12-05 11:59:07 AM

had98c: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

4/10. You managed to get Pascal's Wager in there and also got the complete misrepresentation of atheism right, but it seemed too obvious. Good try.


The real difference between a religion and a viewpoint based on scientific evidence is if those who subscribe to that idea are willing to change their minds if new evidence is offered, or if they cling to their beliefs and are unwilling to modify their model to support that new evidence and try to deny the facts in front of their face like those who dismiss evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old.
 
2012-12-05 11:59:09 AM
Jesus fark! The god damned Atheists are getting as bad as the Christians!
 
2012-12-05 11:59:32 AM
Hey atheists, don't be a dick.

It's possible for religion to exist, be studied, and to allow our children to be exposed to it. If you don't like it, you're just as bad as the homeschoolers that don't want their children in school because they are afraid of teaching them such subjects as "logic" and "reason". Religion is a big part of our history and culture. Would you sue the school for teaching about the holocost just because you don't believe it happened?

//agnostic
 
2012-12-05 11:59:53 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?


It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.
 
2012-12-05 11:59:54 AM

Madbassist1: The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.

my...you're quite the asshole, aren't ya? Moan all you want, my point was I'm pretty damn sure the same people would throw the same fit over the same farking thing, dickhead.


I'm not an asshole, I'm just somebody who actually read TFA and is commenting on such. If you don't have a counter to my points, that's fine, but going straight to namecalling only tells me how butthurt you are that I touched upon the little details that you chose to leave out completely.
 
2012-12-05 11:59:58 AM

Rincewind53: That is the entire basis for the people in this thread claiming that Mithra or Sol Invictus were "born" on the 25th, though why the Romans would think that the sun had a birthday is not entirely clear.


I always assumed that they probably celebrated it as a rebirth than an actual birthday and was probably a tradition long before the Romans. I imagine to the common folk with little or no understanding of science way back when, seeing the sun not rise quite so high as the day before starting after the summer solstice (talking about the northern hemisphere, naturally) could be a bit unnerving. Days start getting shorter, the temperature starts dropping, crops and plants stop growing and start to wither. Without having televisions to watch, they probably watched the sun pretty closely. By the time they were approaching the winter solstice, without the modern conveniences we enjoy today, life was probably getting pretty hard and people were probably feeling pretty discouraged. But once they noticed that the day after the solstice, the sun was a little higher and the day was a little longer I would think it may have encouraged them that it could only get better from there. They may have even thought, hey...why not celebrate? And since throughout ages, people seem to be drawn to attributing everything that happens to them to whatever invisible sky friend(s) that are popular at that time and place, it seems only natural that people might include them in this event.
 
2012-12-05 12:00:11 PM

dopekitty74: BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.



Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.

Sorry, but that's highly inaccurate. I'm talking about the ones that go around protesting things like this that are harmless and fun.

I'm atheist and when my kids expressed an interest in things like sunday school and church based youth groups let them go and decide for themselves what they want to believe, rather than attempt to force my own belief system on them.


Can you not see the difference in you allowing your children to do such a thing, and why a public school should not be taking kids to a church service? Especially one in Arkansas that might not have the most noble of intentions (given their track record in that state of trying to jam Christ into the public school setting to the exclusion of everything else and getting smacked down again and again).
 
2012-12-05 12:00:26 PM

Nabb1: Infernalist: No one would have had any issue if they'd shown the 'movie' at school without the Linus Speech included.

I'd think that was particularly stupid since it's the whole point of the story, whether you like it or not.


Stupid knows no bounds. In my Comp I course we had to write a response essay to a section of, "The Help" There was a lady in class that raised her hand and said that she refused to take part in the assignment because the words were against her religious beliefs. She had to make this statement even though the instructor gave us two alternate readings from the course book. He had to reiterate this to her but she kept going on about the book.
 
2012-12-05 12:00:41 PM
I'd like to see a public school sponsored trip to a retelling of the Horus myth.
 
2012-12-05 12:00:47 PM

DaSwankOne: So watching a local production of A Charlie Brown Christmas is the equivalent of taking an ass beating?


Is your eye in your ass? I don't get it.

/queueing up behind Coco in the "I don't understand metaphor" line
 
2012-12-05 12:00:52 PM

Madbassist1: The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.

my...you're quite the asshole, aren't ya? Moan all you want, my point was I'm pretty damn sure the same people would throw the same fit over the same farking thing, dickhead.


And when you assume, you think that you're making an ass out of everybody else, but it really only makes an ass out of you :)
 
2012-12-05 12:01:09 PM
At least it's not Merry Christmas Graham Stark .

Yes, there's Peanuts involved.
 
2012-12-05 12:01:36 PM
What is funny is that most of the aethist haters around here seem to have more belief in the power of the Holy Spirit to infect children and force them into a Christfilled life than most Christians I run into.
 
2012-12-05 12:02:01 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: dkoucky: This is cultural censorship! I am not a Christian, however we cannot censor culture. Many plays, books, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art have religious themes; does that mean they should not be seen? Should we stop teaching Algebra because it was created by a Muslim and pushed forward through Islam? Is a class allowed to see paintings by Da Vinci as many of them contain Christian themes? This is the same concept of censoring school libraries because you disagree with the moral principals of a book.

Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?


yeah seriously, why don't kids just ride it's a small world at home? why do they have to go to disneyland/world?
 
2012-12-05 12:02:13 PM

dopekitty74: I'm talking about the ones that go around protesting things like this that are harmless and fun.


Hahaha no. The Constitutionality of this action has been discussed up and down this thread. Harmless, my ass.
 
2012-12-05 12:02:20 PM
I think we've gotten to that point in a thread where the people posting haven't read the article, nor any of the other posts in the thread.

*drops mic*
 
2012-12-05 12:02:35 PM
Sounds to me like the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers are not.
 
2012-12-05 12:02:42 PM

Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.


Sure. I'm not a fan of preachy at the best of times, and I think CBC was heavy handed, even for a christian piece. But one of the few truly great things that religion has inspired over the millenia is art. CBC is art. Having it voiced by age-realistic children (as technically flawed as it turned out to be) was utter genius. The kids are at least half of the piece's soul.

Religion is inspiring*. Unfortunately, art isn't the only thing it inspires, but, you know... Different thread.

/ *Although not so much anymore it seems. Religion-inspired art seems to be utter garbage lately.
// CBC may be the last of the greats.
 
2012-12-05 12:02:47 PM

kronicfeld: The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene


OMG!! Won't somebody think of the children? They'll be scarred for life.
 
2012-12-05 12:02:49 PM
trotsky Smartest
Funniest
2012-12-05 11:57:37 AM


Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Yeah, because Fox takes the complaints of one asshole and makes it like we are all bunch of pricks. Screw the Conservative Mainstream Media.
>



Good one dude!
 
2012-12-05 12:02:56 PM

Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.


Good. Glad you agree then this shouldn't happen. Whether or not you personally would be bothered by it is irelevant. It's a clear violation of separation of church and state.

I look forward to the field trip about how Charlie Brown becomes a muslim terrorists because of the actions of the West on his people. I'm sure Fox News wouldn't oppose that because it's a teaching opportunity.

Just face it, you were wrong, and your opinion on the matter is based purely in religious dogma.
 
2012-12-05 12:03:05 PM

Rincewind53: digitalrain: The AW parent is out of line. She forced the school and every child who didn't opt out to
accommodate her views on religion when they could have just as easily been accommodated
if she'd just oped out her own kid and leave everybody else alone.

Except she didn't. RTFA. The church cancelled it before anyone even approached them. The school had literally nothing to do with the decision not to go.


I did RTFA - I guess I just didn't absorb all of it. DOH! Thanks for pointing that out.

It's still pointless outrage on the part of the Society of the Freethinkers (wow...what an oxymoron if they
all think like the woman in TFA does)
 
2012-12-05 12:03:27 PM

justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?


you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....
 
2012-12-05 12:03:44 PM

Qwertyette: be studied


What exactly will children be learning from watching Charlie Brown at a church that they can't learn from Charlie Brown at their school?

And why couldn't the church host this little event during a time when the kids aren't at school?
 
2012-12-05 12:03:46 PM

Qwertyette: Hey atheists, don't be a dick.

It's possible for religion to exist, be studied, and to allow our children to be exposed to it. If you don't like it, you're just as bad as the homeschoolers that don't want their children in school because they are afraid of teaching them such subjects as "logic" and "reason". Religion is a big part of our history and culture. Would you sue the school for teaching about the holocost just because you don't believe it happened?

//agnostic


There's a primary difference between learning about religion and taking part in it. This smacks of taking part in religion -- travelling to a church to attend the production of a church-sponsored show with a religious message. They're not travelling to a library to attend a lecture about the history of December solstice celebrations throughout the world.
 
2012-12-05 12:03:53 PM
The cancellation came as the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers told television station KATV they had received legal advice on pursuing a possible lawsuit against the Little Rock School District.

The second most ironically named organization ever. The first and still the champion is the Committee of Public Safety, who during the French Revolution sent thousands of people to the guillotine.

If you are standing on your atheist soap box and refuse to allow a child to see "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown", it is my fondest hope that any children you have grow up to despise you, have you placed in a nursing home before your time because they decide you are "inconvenient", and that they be a bitter disappointment to you and refuse to visit you on Sundays because it's "church day".

/in other words, get the farking corn cob out of your ass...you should be so lucky to have kids that give a fark about people and put their friends before commercialism, whatever their belief in God, Jesus, or whatever holy spirit moves them
 
2012-12-05 12:04:19 PM

dopekitty74: BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.



Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.

Sorry, but that's highly inaccurate. I'm talking about the ones that go around protesting things like this that are harmless and fun.

I'm atheist and when my kids expressed an interest in things like sunday school and church based youth groups let them go and decide for themselves what they want to believe, rather than attempt to force my own belief system on them.


wait... hold on a second... you are making sense.... i was told this was not allowed on Fark.

I agree btw... the harder you push a child toward something, the more they push back and away from it.

/Human nature
 
2012-12-05 12:04:40 PM

Epicedion: Is your eye in your ass? I don't get it.

/queueing up behind Coco in the "I don't understand metaphor" line


So you don't understand that when someone hits you in the face hard enough to blacken and swell your eye that it is commonly referred to as an "ass beating". This is probably because you are an over protected momma's boy precious snowflake that would have been much better off learning what it meant to get your ass whooped at some point in your life.
 
2012-12-05 12:04:56 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?


Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?

A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.
 
mhd
2012-12-05 12:05:17 PM

Mugato: Why can't they just go to a performance of Die Hard? That's an awesome Christmas movie that doesn't offend anyone. Except maybe Germans. But fark them.


Hey! Stop zis, or ve now vill take ze krissmess trees back, ja?

And why? Looking at my copy of "Stirb Langsam" ("die slowly"), I see that the leader of the terrorists is called "Jack Gruber" and his long-haired Dragon is called "Charlie". Hardly German names.

/"yipi-ay-ey, pig cheek"
 
2012-12-05 12:05:19 PM

trotsky: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Yeah, because Fox takes the complaints of one asshole and makes it like we are all bunch of pricks. Screw the Conservative Mainstream Media.


/FTFY (they all suck ass and are vultures)
 
2012-12-05 12:05:23 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: FlashHarry: i'll be right with you at the barricades. but this charlie brown, for chrissakes (sorry, for FSM's sake). it's harmless.

It's Charlie Brown as shown at their local church under the guidance of a pastor.

Why can't the kids watch the movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?


Because the church is the one putting on the performance. They scheduled a matinee performance for the field trip.
 
2012-12-05 12:05:42 PM

justtray: Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.

Good. Glad you agree then this shouldn't happen. Whether or not you personally would be bothered by it is irelevant. It's a clear violation of separation of church and state.

I look forward to the field trip about how Charlie Brown becomes a muslim terrorists because of the actions of the West on his people. I'm sure Fox News wouldn't oppose that because it's a teaching opportunity.

Just face it, you were wrong, and your opinion on the matter is based purely in religious dogma.


What religious dogma? I'm an atheist, and atheism is not a religion.
 
2012-12-05 12:06:10 PM

Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.


So you're a-okay with public schools acting in ways that are unConstitutional so long as a certain groups feelings aren't hurt? Just because you're okay with the law of the nation being flaunted by religious groups doesn't mean that everybody else will be or should be okay with it as well. Just because this isn't your own personal view of indoctrination doesn't mean that that isn't exactly what was going on here.

So tell me, why can't the kids watch Charlie Brown at their school? Why MUST it be at the church?
 
2012-12-05 12:06:16 PM
After reading this entire thread, I'm confused. Is the problem the play itself or the fact that it was being put on at a church?

If the play had religious themes, but was put on by the local theater company, is that okay. Or if the play was secular, but put on in a church. This happened by the way. The small town I live in put on a public performance of the Wizard of Oz. The only place big enough that had a stage was the church. The whole elementary went and watched. No one complained.
 
2012-12-05 12:06:36 PM

MooseUpNorth: Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.

Sure. I'm not a fan of preachy at the best of times, and I think CBC was heavy handed, even for a christian piece. But one of the few truly great things that religion has inspired over the millenia is art. CBC is art. Having it voiced by age-realistic children (as technically flawed as it turned out to be) was utter genius. The kids are at least half of the piece's soul.

Religion is inspiring*. Unfortunately, art isn't the only thing it inspires, but, you know... Different thread.

/ *Although not so much anymore it seems. Religion-inspired art seems to be utter garbage lately.
// CBC may be the last of the greats.


Religion inspired art isn't always so great. There's a medieval painting section in Raleigh's art museum, and after a while, you get really tired of seeing 'Madonna and Child' paintings. It gets old after about the 5th or 6th one. 'Course, one of the reasons for this was that the church was one of the few patrons who had enough money to commission these paintings.
 
2012-12-05 12:07:04 PM

hdhale: If you are standing on your atheist soap box and refuse to allow a child to see "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown"


Those poor children who won't be able to catch it on TV one of the 700 times it'll be shown this month, or attend the church show themselves on their own time.

DaSwankOne: So you don't understand that when someone hits you in the face hard enough to blacken and swell your eye that it is commonly referred to as an "ass beating". This is probably because you are an over protected momma's boy precious snowflake that would have been much better off learning what it meant to get your ass whooped at some point in your life.


You are such an adorable internet badass. Come here, you.
 
2012-12-05 12:07:30 PM

mizchief: getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me.


You have a retarded idea of what religion is.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:07 PM

mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....


My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:11 PM

mizchief: had98c: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

4/10. You managed to get Pascal's Wager in there and also got the complete misrepresentation of atheism right, but it seemed too obvious. Good try.

The real difference between a religion and a viewpoint based on scientific evidence is if those who subscribe to that idea are willing to change their minds if new evidence is offered, or if they cling to their beliefs and are unwilling to modify their model to support that new evidence and try to deny the facts in front of their face like those who dismiss evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old.


Most atheists I know base their viewpoint on rules of evidence and rational thinking. So where does the religion part come in? Again the confusion seems to be stemming from a lack of understanding of what an atheist is.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:23 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So tell me, why can't the kids watch Charlie Brown at their school? Why MUST it be at the church?


BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE PLAY WAS BEING PUT ON.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:35 PM

amindtat: Rincewind53: That is the entire basis for the people in this thread claiming that Mithra or Sol Invictus were "born" on the 25th, though why the Romans would think that the sun had a birthday is not entirely clear.

I always assumed that they probably celebrated it as a rebirth than an actual birthday and was probably a tradition long before the Romans. I imagine to the common folk with little or no understanding of science way back when, seeing the sun not rise quite so high as the day before starting after the summer solstice (talking about the northern hemisphere, naturally) could be a bit unnerving. Days start getting shorter, the temperature starts dropping, crops and plants stop growing and start to wither. Without having televisions to watch, they probably watched the sun pretty closely. By the time they were approaching the winter solstice, without the modern conveniences we enjoy today, life was probably getting pretty hard and people were probably feeling pretty discouraged. But once they noticed that the day after the solstice, the sun was a little higher and the day was a little longer I would think it may have encouraged them that it could only get better from there. They may have even thought, hey...why not celebrate? And since throughout ages, people seem to be drawn to attributing everything that happens to them to whatever invisible sky friend(s) that are popular at that time and place, it seems only natural that people might include them in this event.


Oh yeah, you'll get no disagreement from me that primitive cultures venerated the sun, and that the solstice was always seen as a time of rebirth, and that Jesus's "birth" was pegged to the solstice. The historical record on that is clear. I just get annoyed when people go around copy-pasting pat explanations of why lolChristianityisafraud because they ignore the historical record in favor of what they think sounds good.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:45 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: dkoucky: This is cultural censorship! I am not a Christian, however we cannot censor culture. Many plays, books, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art have religious themes; does that mean they should not be seen? Should we stop teaching Algebra because it was created by a Muslim and pushed forward through Islam? Is a class allowed to see paintings by Da Vinci as many of them contain Christian themes? This is the same concept of censoring school libraries because you disagree with the moral principals of a book.

Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?


It was a play, might have been a minor pain in the ass to rebuild the set, reblock the actors, setup seating, and transport it to the school gymnasium.
 
2012-12-05 12:08:56 PM

FlashHarry: citoriman: You really don't get it. Some people actually care about the separation of church and state from a moral perspective. Bringing a school to church violates that. If every "athesit" was like you and just STFU and relaxed, Christians would have us living in the 1500's by now.

teach intelligent design in a publicly funded school? i'll be right with you at the barricades. but this charlie brown, for chrissakes (sorry, for FSM's sake). it's harmless.


It's not about Charlie Brown. Its about bringing kids from a public school to church to learn about jesus.

From the pastor involved: "Christmas is a Christian holiday - hence it's name - Christmas....The context of the birth of Christ is broadly described in both Old and New Testament texts."

Put a damn VHS on in the classroom if you need Charlie Brown. Why waste students' time to bus over to a church to watch a crappy rendition? Because getting kids through their church doors however they can is a typical christian recruitment tactic.

One more thing: all you old farts need to accept that Charlie Brown may have been important to you when you were a kid, but it has been a long time since children in general gave half a crap about Charlie Brown, in any form. I guarantee if this performance had gone on, the kids would have been bored to tears.
 
2012-12-05 12:09:02 PM

IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.


My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.
 
2012-12-05 12:09:08 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: mizchief: getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me.

You have a retarded idea of what religion is.


Yea, you can't make an argument without name calling. What's your point?
 
2012-12-05 12:09:12 PM

Coco LaFemme: What religious dogma? I'm an atheist, and atheism is not a religion.


It is to many atheists unfortunately. They can be quite dogmatic.
 
2012-12-05 12:09:12 PM
I don't consider myself a "militant" atheist, and I wouldn't have complained to the Society of Freethinkers (or the media or whatever). I wouldn't have signed the permission slip though. A visit to a church/synagogue/mosque/temple/whatever for non-educational purposes is over the line.

I agree with those upthread: the church looks like they are attention whoring..."oh woe is us! help help, we're being repressed!". Stand by your guns and have it at the church (but be ready to accept the possible consequences), put the play on after school, or at the school (still optional attendance) and get over yourself.

/too many wadded panties in this thread, on both sides of the debate
 
2012-12-05 12:09:27 PM

AbbeySomeone: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.


This x 2
 
2012-12-05 12:09:29 PM

hdhale:
If you are standing on your atheist soap box and refuse to allow a child to see "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown", it is my fondest hope that any children you have grow up to despise you, have you placed in a nursing home before your time because they decide you are "inconvenient", and that they be a bitter disappointment to you and refuse to visit you on Sundays because it's "church day".

/in other words, get the farking corn cob out of your ass...you should be so lucky to have kids that give a fark about people and put their friends before commercialism, whatever their belief in God, Jesus, or whatever holy spirit moves them


For someone supposedly championing the statement of love the movie contains, you're spewing an awful lot of hate.

You might want to get the log out of your own eye, first.
 
2012-12-05 12:09:36 PM

DaSwankOne: Epicedion: Is your eye in your ass? I don't get it.

/queueing up behind Coco in the "I don't understand metaphor" line

So you don't understand that when someone hits you in the face hard enough to blacken and swell your eye that it is commonly referred to as an "ass beating". This is probably because you are an over protected momma's boy precious snowflake that would have been much better off learning what it meant to get your ass whooped at some point in your life.


No one punch isn't an ass beating. I've punched an acquaintance in the face and broke his glasses because he was treating his girlfriend like shiat. What did I call it? I punched him in his farking face.
 
2012-12-05 12:10:01 PM

dkoucky: The My Little Pony Killer: dkoucky: This is cultural censorship! I am not a Christian, however we cannot censor culture. Many plays, books, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art have religious themes; does that mean they should not be seen? Should we stop teaching Algebra because it was created by a Muslim and pushed forward through Islam? Is a class allowed to see paintings by Da Vinci as many of them contain Christian themes? This is the same concept of censoring school libraries because you disagree with the moral principals of a book.

Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

It was a play, might have been a minor pain in the ass to rebuild the set, reblock the actors, setup seating, and transport it to the school gymnasium.


So why couldn't the play have been put on during a time when kids AREN'T going to be in school?
 
2012-12-05 12:10:06 PM

citoriman: xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

Did you consider the fact that because of the atheists' religious beliefs, they are being forced to exclude themselves from a day of PUBLIC education?

By your logic, it would be OK to have public school taught in a church, by a priest, from the bible, because parents have the option to homeschool.


Atheists don't have religious beliefs. That's the definition of an atheist.
 
2012-12-05 12:10:17 PM

dkoucky: It was a play, might have been a minor pain in the ass to rebuild the set, reblock the actors, setup seating, and transport it to the school gymnasium.


Assuming the gymnasium was open.

/can see lots of Farkers have never worked in any kind of logistics
//what, stuff can easily just go anywhere - the real world is totally like the internet, you can just copy/paste stuff and it's at the new site!
 
2012-12-05 12:10:50 PM

mizchief: The My Little Pony Killer: mizchief: getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me.

You have a retarded idea of what religion is.

Yea, you can't make an argument without name calling. What's your point?


That based upon your definition of religion, I'm not sure ANYBODY in this thread can effectively argue on the same level as you. It's just too difficult to stoop that low!
 
2012-12-05 12:10:57 PM

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.

Good. Glad you agree then this shouldn't happen. Whether or not you personally would be bothered by it is irelevant. It's a clear violation of separation of church and state.

I look forward to the field trip about how Charlie Brown becomes a muslim terrorists because of the actions of the West on his people. I'm sure Fox News wouldn't oppose that because it's a teaching opportunity.

Just face it, you were wrong, and your opinion on the matter is based purely in religious dogma.

What religious dogma? I'm an atheist, and atheism is not a religion.


The dogma that it's okay because it's Christian, because it's the religion you're familiar with and surrounded by.

I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.
 
2012-12-05 12:11:06 PM

doczoidberg: I'm an atheist, and this shiat annoys the hell out of me.
Why do atheists have to act like such a-holes?

And why isn't there just a word for someone who thinks the idea of a god is silly, but doesn't care to promote that thought to others? -- You know, like an apathetic atheist. An atheist who doesn't care what others do.

There should be a way to distinguish guys like me from those other jerks.


You sound agnostic.
 
2012-12-05 12:11:14 PM

Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.


Why not? I'm an athiest, but I would have no problem with my kid going on a field trip to observe the customs or holiday traditions of a religious group, if it was presented as an educational opportunity and not a chance to preach at them.
 
2012-12-05 12:11:25 PM

mizchief: The My Little Pony Killer: mizchief: getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me.

You have a retarded idea of what religion is.

Yea, you can't make an argument without name calling. What's your point?


Where in there did I call YOU a name? I said YOUR DEFINITION was retarded. Cry harder.
 
2012-12-05 12:11:43 PM

notdorothy: After reading this entire thread, I'm confused. Is the problem the play itself or the fact that it was being put on at a church?

If the play had religious themes, but was put on by the local theater company, is that okay. Or if the play was secular, but put on in a church. This happened by the way. The small town I live in put on a public performance of the Wizard of Oz. The only place big enough that had a stage was the church. The whole elementary went and watched. No one complained.


The problem seems to be fluid and ever changing just like in every other thread in Fark.

/Moving the goalposts for the good of the human race
 
2012-12-05 12:12:00 PM

citoriman: Put a damn VHS on in the classroom if you need Charlie Brown.


THANK YOU.
 
2012-12-05 12:12:07 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So why couldn't the play have been put on during a time when kids AREN'T going to be in school?


Also, who was performing in the play if it was going on during school hours? Out-of-work adults? Kids skipping school?
 
2012-12-05 12:12:51 PM

Ozone_Ranger: I agree with those upthread: the church looks like they are attention whoring..."oh woe is us! help help, we're being repressed!". Stand by your guns and have it at the church (but be ready to accept the possible consequences), put the play on after school, or at the school (still optional attendance) and get over yourself.


I agree, they should have to bear the extra costs of transportation and set design, as well as face lawyer costs for potential lawsuits. If they're not willing to spend hundreds to thousands more dollars in order to show this play as a matinee, then it clearly shows that they're attention-whoring.

/i'd be more worried about it being indoctrination if they WERE willing to go through all the extra sh*t to show the play at that time
 
2012-12-05 12:12:54 PM
Of all the douchebag atheists in the world, you're douchebag atheistiest.
 
2012-12-05 12:13:01 PM

manimal2878: I'm an athiest, but I would have no problem with my kid going on a field trip to observe the customs or holiday traditions of a religious group, if it was presented as an educational opportunity and not a chance to preach at them.


So at what point is Merry Christmas Charlie Brown educational in any way?
 
2012-12-05 12:13:02 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: mizchief: getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me.

You have a retarded idea of what religion is.


I think the word he meant to use is zealot...

/words have meaning or something
 
2012-12-05 12:13:38 PM

Tenatra: No one punch isn't an ass beating. I've punched an acquaintance in the face and broke his glasses because he was treating his girlfriend like shiat. What did I call it? I punched him in his farking face.


Maybe someone should punch you in the face for making the dumbest thing I have read on the internet in a long time.

/ we just finished an election season
// I read an article with Sarah Palin quotes in it last night
 
2012-12-05 12:13:54 PM

exatron: Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.

And our problem isn't with A Charlie Brown Christmas. It's with a public school taking kids to see a play about Christianity's central character at a church. You know, that whole separation of church and state thing.


Charlie Brown: Christianity's central character
 
2012-12-05 12:13:54 PM
AMERICA! Land of the Free, Home of the Brave!

...So long as there is ZERO chance that you could even REMOTELY come within 100 miles of offending even 1 person that either does, has or will live.
 
2012-12-05 12:14:28 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.

So you're a-okay with public schools acting in ways that are unConstitutional so long as a certain groups feelings aren't hurt? Just because you're okay with the law of the nation being flaunted by religious groups doesn't mean that everybody else will be or should be okay with it as well. Just because this isn't your own personal view of indoctrination doesn't mean that that isn't exactly what was going on here.

So tell me, why can't the kids watch Charlie Brown at their school? Why MUST it be at the church?


For the same reason other people have mentioned several times in this thread; because it's a live production, not someone setting up a TV and putting the DVD in. Maybe the school's gymnasium wasn't large enough, maybe the school had a room for putting on plays and other shows, but it wasn't big enough to accommodate all the people who'd go, maybe another grade or group was using the gym for something else, and they needed the larger space.

There ARE valid reasons for using a religious structure for a non-religious reason, and none of them have to do with indoctrinating students or forcing them to be Christian when they're not.
 
2012-12-05 12:14:47 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: citoriman: Put a damn VHS on in the classroom if you need Charlie Brown.

THANK YOU.


really? That's the farking issue? Not the religious content of the Charlie Brown Christmas special about the true meaning of the season being the birth of Christ but what building it was being shown in?

Holy crap.
 
2012-12-05 12:15:27 PM
Good grief! From the article, it is clear that the pastor of the church cancelled the event! Not the atheists, not the principal, not the school board or anyone else. The farking pastor cancelled his own event. The poor baby was worried that his little play might be attacked. If he had any courage at all, he'd have stood up and defended his faith, church and Charlie Brown. The pastor has the backbone of a jellyfish or, more likely, is ginning up the controversy to promote ticket sales for his weekend performance. Basically you have a pastor crying, "Oppression!" when the only thing that has happened is a concerned parent contacted a group and they sought some legal counsel.
 
2012-12-05 12:15:33 PM

Epicedion: You are such an adorable internet badass. Come here, you.


I have got chunks of trolls like you in my stool.
 
2012-12-05 12:15:49 PM

DaSwankOne: Tenatra: No one punch isn't an ass beating. I've punched an acquaintance in the face and broke his glasses because he was treating his girlfriend like shiat. What did I call it? I punched him in his farking face.

Maybe someone should punch you in the face for making the dumbest thing I have read on the internet in a long time.

/ we just finished an election season
// I read an article with Sarah Palin quotes in it last night


Why didn't you say someone should give me an ass beating?
 
2012-12-05 12:15:56 PM

Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.


Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.
 
2012-12-05 12:16:23 PM
As an atheist at the extreme end of the spectrum, I sent my son to a Roman Catholic school. They had performances similar to this as part of the syllabus. They also had trips to mosques, Sikh, Hindu temples and other establishments to experience their celebrations. I absolutely support this.

As a young adult, he shows no inclination for any faith but can hold his own in a discussion about most of the major religions. Nothing wrong with that.
 
2012-12-05 12:16:36 PM

justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.

Good. Glad you agree then this shouldn't happen. Whether or not you personally would be bothered by it is irelevant. It's a clear violation of separation of church and state.

I look forward to the field trip about how Charlie Brown becomes a muslim terrorists because of the actions of the West on his people. I'm sure Fox News wouldn't oppose that because it's a teaching opportunity.

Just face it, you were wrong, and your opinion on the matter is based purely in religious dogma.

What religious dogma? I'm an atheist, and atheism is not a religion.

The dogma that it's okay because it's Christian, because it's the religion you're familiar with and surrounded by.

I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.


LOL, I'm a troll. Good one. What next, my mom is so fat when she sits around the house.......she sits around the house?
 
2012-12-05 12:16:39 PM

mizchief: The My Little Pony Killer: mizchief: getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me.

You have a retarded idea of what religion is.

Yea, you can't make an argument without name calling. What's your point?


ROFL You couldn't even differentiate between you and your definition of religion.
 
2012-12-05 12:16:50 PM

manimal2878: Teknowaffle: As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.

Why not? I'm an athiest, but I would have no problem with my kid going on a field trip to observe the customs or holiday traditions of a religious group, if it was presented as an educational opportunity and not a chance to preach at them.


You know, if this was done in NYC, or LA, or a major urban center that doesn't have a history of trying to jam Jesus into the science class, I'd probably be giving a big "Meh".

It was in Arkansas. A state that is in the process of trying to wedge creationism into the science class yet again. They have tried again and again to violate the separation of church and state, so perhaps I am not as willing to forgive or allow a place that has such a record to cart the kids in to a church.

It's a state that already ranks pretty damn low in education. Maybe, just maybe, they should spend less time taking the kids to get preached at and reinforcing their probably already 100% Christian beliefs on public school time and spend it doing math, reading, and writing?
 
2012-12-05 12:17:01 PM

DaSwankOne: I have got chunks of trolls like you in my stool.


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-05 12:17:45 PM

justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.


I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.
 
2012-12-05 12:17:51 PM
I wonder if the outrage would be the same for say "It a wonderful life?"



/I must have missed congress making the law to forcing them to go see this
 
2012-12-05 12:18:08 PM
i get it...i just find i have a hard time getting worked up about it.
 
2012-12-05 12:18:43 PM

citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.


I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.
 
2012-12-05 12:18:43 PM

gerrymander: Of all the douchebag atheists in the world, you're douchebag atheistiest.


i think you meant "douchebaggiest Athiest"... they can't be any more Athiest than Athiest, but they certainly can be more douchebaggier than just standard levels of douchebaggery

/douchebaggery... my new favorite word of the day
 
2012-12-05 12:18:46 PM

IAmRight: I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.


I've seen that one. Pig Pen sets off a dirty bomb.
 
2012-12-05 12:19:27 PM

IAmRight: Mouthoy: /Rhymes with..um...Schmithaca College

And you are now favorited appropriately.


Rockin'!

/Have several colleagues over on East Hill - good people!
//and you have hockey!
 
2012-12-05 12:19:47 PM

IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.


Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?
 
2012-12-05 12:19:50 PM

justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....

My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.


It's perfectly logical. Why risk all this supposed eternal hell fire when i can say one sentence and move on with my life? I don't go to church. I don't waste time in prayer. I do celebrate xmas with my family because I feel it's more productive to play along and enjoy my loved ones vs. spending hours over fruitless arguments.

I didn't address your Santa Clause example because I already explained my viewpoint on filling the gaps with faith. I don't "believe" in anything. There is no reason to believe. I can't prove Santa doesn't exists, but I can prove that a specific child's presents didn't come from a fat guy in a red suit that squeezed them down the chimney.

I don't "believe" the earth is round, but i'm fairly confident that if i walk long enough in a straight line i'll end up where I started based on others experiences and pictures of the earth from space etc.

I just don't understand why you care what other believe. If someone is trying to kill you because your not a then defend yourself. If someone is trying to make bad policy, then offer a better one and fight on the merits of the facts at hand. If it's just a stupid cartoon show, then STFU and change the channel.
 
2012-12-05 12:20:01 PM
So when will they repeal it as a national holiday?
 
2012-12-05 12:20:05 PM
As someone who can be a bit loud about the rights of atheists:

I don't really see the problem with kids watching a not-very religious stage play inspired by a cartoon featuring macrocephalic children that try to put on their own play. In fact, I can appreciate the meta-nature of it all. I'm a little curious why the venue is a church, but maybe they have a nice stage (that's not sarcasm, some churches have very nice theater capabilities). Beyond that, it's voluntary. Kids aren't required to go. Sure, it's not exactly educational, but it seems like an overreaction.

This is different from teachers mandating a break time for prayer in schools, or, for example, kicking out students with henna decorations on their hands for diwali. Those show discrimination of one sort or another.

Personally, I wish we had mandated academic religion classes in schools. Kids should be allowed to learn about various religions, their ideals, goals, and contrast that against how the organizations and their followers actually behave historically and to date, before they're entirely brainwashed by their parents and religious leaders. Let them choose a religion (or none) instead of having it imposed on them. Let them understand what other cultures believe, and help them to judge them based on their own merits, not preconceived ideas from their parents.

For now, it's up to responsible parents to provide their children with these tools, but it rarely happens. I'd even go so far as to claim that parents who don't are either uncaring, or too scared that their child will pick the 'wrong' one that they don't let them choose for themselves - and this goes for atheists too. Seems like it'd apply to the woman who complained from the article.
 
2012-12-05 12:20:19 PM

IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?

A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.


It's not the physical structure of churches that are evil and scary, it is the values, ignorance, and disregard for the founding principles of this nation held by the people that fill them which frightens those of us who can think for ourselves.
 
2012-12-05 12:20:36 PM

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: Is it telling them they're ... not as good as Christians?

Yes. The Christians get a special treat about their holiday myths. No one else does. Giving one group a reward while withholding similar rewards from other groups is the core of marginalization.

R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

Which at least is overwhelmingly secular in its approach to Christmas. It would be much more acceptable than Charlie Brown.

Part of the overall confusion, I think, is that America has two Christmases. There is Christmas as a solstice celebration, with decorated trees and the exchange of gifts, deeply steeped in Nordic mythology but more-or-less secular. Then there is Christmas as the Christian religious holiday. The former is suitable for celebration by public institutions, but the latter is not.

//The MST3K of Santa Claus and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians are Christmas traditions in my house.


Same here. I don't think covering it up with stuff like "Happy Holidays" is the right way either, all solstice traditions should be highlighted and respected IMHO.

It's a balance really.
 
2012-12-05 12:21:00 PM
Wait a second...

What are the chances this guy actually purchased the play's script and the rights to perform it, and isn't infringing on copyright and trademarks?
 
2012-12-05 12:21:29 PM

Tenatra: Why didn't you say someone should give me an ass beating?


Because it is synonymous you farking retard.
 
2012-12-05 12:21:34 PM

citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.


I hear that church basements are sometimes used as polling stations during elections. This is an outrage. Separation of church and state means never having to set foot in a building where religious services are held
 
2012-12-05 12:21:51 PM

WhippingBoy: If your Atheism is so weak that your child will be converted by going to a church, then you've failed as a parent.


If my tax dollars are stretched so tight that the elementary kids are holding a garage sale to raise money for school supplies *and* the school pays to send them on a field trip to a church sponsored event, I will have failed as a tax-paying parent if I don't stop it or at least complain.
 
2012-12-05 12:21:54 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

Just because something is "optional" doesn't mean that it was ever okay for it to be suggested in the first place.

Why can't the kids be shown the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it have to be at a church?


Not the movie. A live-action play using the script for the show. The church I went to as a kid did it for their christmas pageant at least once.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:02 PM

doyner: Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.


There's a whole lot of intolerance going around.

When you have to make the case that your beliefs are good because every other belief is the domain of assholes and sub-humans, perhaps you don't really understand your own belief system. Or maybe you just don't believe in it.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:13 PM
Let's just all agree that this is the worst turd in the Christmas TV punchbowl ...

Star Wars: The Holiday Special Part I  

/second Life Day referance for me on fark today
/Bobba Fett rules
 
2012-12-05 12:22:39 PM

Coco LaFemme: Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?


I feel it's important to call attention to the opinions of people who go on and on about how intolerant religious people are.

Especially when they're either saying "I guarantee that most of them would complain if their kid had to go to a mosque" or what justtray said. Ah, it's good that they're so above the stupidity and intolerance which are only learned in religion.
 
2012-12-05 12:22:57 PM

meat0918: Wait a second...

What are the chances this guy actually purchased the play's script and the rights to perform it, and isn't infringing on copyright and trademarks?


... that's a good point. I just looked it up and apparently the rights to put on the play aren't even available for purchase.
 
2012-12-05 12:23:09 PM
You know what people are totally over-looking? The kids were probably just looking at this whole thing as a fun field trip to get them out of school and math for the day. Then the damn adults had to go and ruin it. Now they have to play dodge ball in gym and do extra reading to catch up on what they miss.

Damn adults.
 
2012-12-05 12:24:06 PM

citoriman: It's not the physical structure of churches that are evil and scary, it is the values, ignorance, and disregard for the founding principles of this nation held by the people that fill them which frightens those of us who can think for ourselves.


And yet you're afraid of them even when they're not full of those people. Also, you seem to be very confused with the difference between what the Constitution says and your own interpretation of "separation of church and state."
 
2012-12-05 12:25:03 PM

t3knomanser: So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?


this was every second tuesday, in my upstate NY public elementary school. all the catholics would hop on a bus and go off to "church school" for the afternoon, and the rest of us would sit around and draw shiat on the desks for three hours.
 
2012-12-05 12:25:08 PM
I think the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers needs a collective cockpunch. It's Charlie Brown for Christ sakes.
 
2012-12-05 12:25:18 PM

Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?


Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Argument over.
 
2012-12-05 12:25:25 PM

Epicedion: meat0918: Wait a second...

What are the chances this guy actually purchased the play's script and the rights to perform it, and isn't infringing on copyright and trademarks?

... that's a good point. I just looked it up and apparently the rights to put on the play aren't even available for purchase.


Hmm. Perhaps the pastor did not think his cunning plan through then.
 
2012-12-05 12:26:16 PM

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: The My Little Pony Killer: Coco LaFemme: And Constitutionally disallowed shiat is still Constitutionally disallowed.

I'm not incredibly smart or privileged. The last thing I am is privileged. My parents would get a kick out of that one.

No comment on the Constitutionality of the scenario from TFA?

It's not Constitutionally sound. I've never argued that it was. That doesn't mean that if I was a parent of one of the kids in this class, I would be bothered by it, because I don't think the mere act of putting a child in a church is indoctrinating them. I think a lot would need to be going on for me to think that the school was trying to force my child to be a Christian when they were not.

Good. Glad you agree then this shouldn't happen. Whether or not you personally would be bothered by it is irelevant. It's a clear violation of separation of church and state.

I look forward to the field trip about how Charlie Brown becomes a muslim terrorists because of the actions of the West on his people. I'm sure Fox News wouldn't oppose that because it's a teaching opportunity.

Just face it, you were wrong, and your opinion on the matter is based purely in religious dogma.

What religious dogma? I'm an atheist, and atheism is not a religion.

The dogma that it's okay because it's Christian, because it's the religion you're familiar with and surrounded by.

I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

LOL, I'm a troll. Good one. What next, my mom is so fat when she sits around the house.......she sits around the house?


wait....wait... i have a better one

Your BVDs are soooo big, when you put them on, they spell B-O-U-L-E-V-A-R-D

of course that one is as old as dust too...

/Man... I feel old now
 
2012-12-05 12:26:31 PM
Maybe this guy just wanted to troll Fark.

Seems like he succeeded.
 
2012-12-05 12:26:39 PM

meat0918: Hmm. Perhaps the pastor did not think his cunning plan through then.


No, he probably canceled the play because he didn't want to get sued by whoever owns Peanuts now.
 
2012-12-05 12:27:01 PM

mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....

My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.

It's perfectly logical. Why risk all this supposed eternal hell fire when i can say one sentence and move on with my life? I don't go to church. I don't waste time in prayer. I do celebrate xmas with my family because I feel it's more productive to play along and enjoy my loved ones vs. spending hours over fruitless arguments.

I didn't address your Santa Clause example because I already explained my viewpoint on filling the gaps with faith. I don't "believe" in anything. There is no reason to believe. I can't prove Santa doesn't exists, but I can prove that a specific child's presents didn't come from a fat guy in a red suit that squeezed them down the chi ...


I don't care what others believe. Be as stupid as you want. You've done a great job here showing it. Just don't spread your ignorant views to anyone within public school or anywhere else covered by the umbrella of church and state.

Now go on with your simple life.
 
2012-12-05 12:27:02 PM

justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.


Prove that.
 
2012-12-05 12:28:52 PM

SubjectVerb: citoriman: xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

Did you consider the fact that because of the atheists' religious beliefs, they are being forced to exclude themselves from a day of PUBLIC education?

By your logic, it would be OK to have public school taught in a church, by a priest, from the bible, because parents have the option to homeschool.

Atheists don't have religious beliefs. That's the definition of an atheist.


Sorry, I was trying to put it in terms even a religious person could understand. They aren't keen on thinking outside the box with regard to religious beliefs, I've found. Some people literally cannot understand how "religious beliefs" are something that a person can be without.
 
2012-12-05 12:29:22 PM
Wow. Long thread!

img38.imageshack.us
(This was in a flyer I just got from a local hardware store)
 
2012-12-05 12:31:17 PM

hdhale: The cancellation came as the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers told television station KATV they had received legal advice on pursuing a possible lawsuit against the Little Rock School District.

The second most ironically named organization ever. The first and still the champion is the Committee of Public Safety, who during the French Revolution sent thousands of people to the guillotine.

If you are standing on your atheist soap box and refuse to allow a child to see "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown", it is my fondest hope that any children you have grow up to despise you, have you placed in a nursing home before your time because they decide you are "inconvenient", and that they be a bitter disappointment to you and refuse to visit you on Sundays because it's "church day".

/in other words, get the farking corn cob out of your ass...you should be so lucky to have kids that give a fark about people and put their friends before commercialism, whatever their belief in God, Jesus, or whatever holy spirit moves them


This has got to be the most pants-on-head retarded comment I've read on FARK. And that includes any link to American thinker.

2.bp.blogspot.com

cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-12-05 12:32:16 PM
As Jon Stewart has pointed out....shut the fark up about the war on Christmas. There is none and if there is one, than the fact that I had to listen to shiatty christmas songs today at work, a solid 3 weeks before Christmas, means that Christmas is winning the shiat out of this "war".
/I love Christmas but shut the fark up about it until the 20th or so. By time Christmas does come I'm ready to stab a caroller with a candy cane.
 
2012-12-05 12:33:07 PM

Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.


Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?
 
2012-12-05 12:34:11 PM
I'm not a believer. I love that show and we watch the cartoon every year, but I'd have real and significant problems with letting my own 5th & 1st grade girls go on a school-managed trip to a church.

Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy. Not to mention whatever treatment she gets from her peers afterward for being so decidedly separated from them based on faith. And I know for a fact there're other non-believing, Jewish, Hindu, and Muslim kids at our elementary school; what would they do?

The school could do anything; take the kids to see any sort of Christmas or holiday show. I'd even be fine with the same Charlie Brown Christmas play. Just not one at a church or run by a church.

I truly have no problem with religion, Christians, or Christianity. Almost every Christian I meet is a fine person. The ideals of Christianity are wonderful. I just want my kids to be able to go to public school without being proselytized to by any religion. Is that not too much to ask?
 
2012-12-05 12:34:42 PM

justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....

My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.

It's perfectly logical. Why risk all this supposed eternal hell fire when i can say one sentence and move on with my life? I don't go to church. I don't waste time in prayer. I do celebrate xmas with my family because I feel it's more productive to play along and enjoy my loved ones vs. spending hours over fruitless arguments.

I didn't address your Santa Clause example because I already explained my viewpoint on filling the gaps with faith. I don't "believe" in anything. There is no reason to believe. I can't prove Santa doesn't exists, but I can prove that a specific child's presents didn't come from a fat guy in a red suit that squeezed them do ...


Sounds good to me. I'm quite happy with my life. You've done little but display your religious intolerance and spreading your own hateful nature. Just leave those of us trying to have a good time and enjoy life alone, but I won't stop engorging people to break free from religion in their own minds.
 
2012-12-05 12:34:50 PM

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.


Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.
 
2012-12-05 12:35:05 PM
REMEMBER THE REASON FOR THE SEASON, FOLKS!

img214.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-05 12:36:21 PM
Why isn't there a zero tolerance policy of religion in school? If it's banned, ban it.

Either there is a separation of church and state or there isn't.
Then we wouldn't be having this repeated discussions.

But this whole gray area shiat only resurrects the rhetoric between the two sides each and every time this issue comes up.
 
2012-12-05 12:37:24 PM
Recap for those not paying attention

Apparently the rights to put on a live performance of this particular play don't exist (as the play, in any official way, does not exist), per the Peanuts website, under "Special Requests." That means the church (or anyone) putting on the performance would be a huge copyright violation, and fines for that sort of thing are pretty severe.

I'm rather interested in what's going to happen now that this little church show has gotten some national attention.
 
2012-12-05 12:38:35 PM

mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: justtray: mizchief: Further proof that Atheism is a religion. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. You cannot prove that god does not exist, but you base your belief on lack of evidence and fill the gap with faith.

The truly scientifically minded people don't make that leap of faith in either direction and simply live their lives based on facts and reason.

The most logical religion in my opinion is Christianity. All you have to do is say one prayer then you can pretty much do whatever you want and still get into heaven if such a place does actually exist.

That's not how the burden of proof works, moron. Prove to me Santa Claus isn't real. Since you can't you have to give equal credance to the possibility he is.

See how stupid you are yet?

you mad bro? getting angry because someone has a different idea sure does sound like a religion to me. Almost like those fools that get pissed off over a simple cartoon.....

My point stands. Funny when presented with logic you can't respond and instead recoil.

I never said anything about different ideas, I simply stated why you have a non logical belief based in fact, and supported it with a believe that shows your lack of logical consistency within your own views. And you couldn't even address it. Says a lot about your mental capacity.

It's perfectly logical. Why risk all this supposed eternal hell fire when i can say one sentence and move on with my life? I don't go to church. I don't waste time in prayer. I do celebrate xmas with my family because I feel it's more productive to play along and enjoy my loved ones vs. spending hours over fruitless arguments.

I didn't address your Santa Clause example because I already explained my viewpoint on filling the gaps with faith. I don't "believe" in anything. There is no reason to believe. I can't prove Santa doesn't exists, but I can prove that a specific child's presents didn't come from a fat guy in a red suit that squeez ...


You keep mistaking "showing hypocrisy within your own beliefs" with "religious intolerence."

I wish I could say I don't know why.

Explain to me again why you think Santa Claus doesn't exist, but God does.
 
2012-12-05 12:39:24 PM

citoriman: Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.

Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?


In the South, people take religion very seriously. You'd be surprised the number of times I've heard of it happening. Not all parents would be willing to swallow their pride. That said, my family knew this girl's family really well, so they didn't actually have a problem with it. Now, at my H. S. graduation, our valedictorian didn't give her speech because it was held in a Catholic church. The salutatorian read the speech after reading their own. Her parents wanted to know why graduation couldn't be held in the school gym, and when the principal told her it wasn't big enough to fit all the graduates, their guests, and the school's administration, they weren't satisfied with that answer and didn't let her walk. She still got her diploma, but she missed the dean of students falling on their ass during the processional.
 
2012-12-05 12:39:56 PM

GregInIndy: Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy.


well, you would be the bad guy by preventing your kids from seeing a live action rendition of a show you love merely because it is being performed in a church.
The show itself quotes the Bible. It talks about the birth of Jesus Christ as the important thing to the Christmas season. The fact that you're cool with your kids hearing that but not if it happens in a church is mind boggling.
 
2012-12-05 12:40:23 PM

Coco LaFemme: Maybe those people need to pull the sticks out of their asses and lighten up...If I had kids, and the school took them to see a play where at one point in the play, a Bible verse was recited, you know what I'd do?


First, there's a difference between referencing or using excerpts from the Bible in a social, historical, or literature context, and proselytism. The first is permissible under the scope of the First Amendment; the second is not.

Second, it's not a matter of religion. It's a matter of understanding the rule of law, honoring it, obeying the law and fostering in kids and teens a respect for the rule of law. Our society has seen first to erect a wall of separation between the church and state, and moreover enumerate it in the highest law of the land, and the use of tax dollars for the purpose of proselytism is not permissible by the word of that highest law.

What lesson is being taught our kids when they experience firsthand proselytism in direct violation of the First Amendment? The highest law of the land itself can be ignored if you simply don't like it? That privileged classes are free to violate the law without accountability? That majorities are entitled to higher-order "rights" than minorities? That individuals ought not speak out when the law is being violated, by a privileged class, majority, or individual? That the only laws that matter are the ones that dictate and punish criminality?

That's especially pertinent within Christianity itself.

1 John 3:4-6: Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Matthew 18:18-20: Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.

Romans 13:1-7: Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


If Christians can't even obey the tenets of their own religion which instruct them to obey the laws of man, what credibility have they when it comes to discussing the laws of man?
 
2012-12-05 12:40:25 PM

IAmRight: citoriman: It's not the physical structure of churches that are evil and scary, it is the values, ignorance, and disregard for the founding principles of this nation held by the people that fill them which frightens those of us who can think for ourselves.

And yet you're afraid of them even when they're not full of those people. Also, you seem to be very confused with the difference between what the Constitution says and your own interpretation of "separation of church and state."


Yes, us non-relgious are sooooo afraid of empty churches. That's what this is all about lol. Congratulations, you have achieved the rhetorical level of the crazy guy on the corner. So many statements, so little facts, critical thinking, evidence. Could it be that you are unable to formulate thoughts of your own, and are just desperately trying to project pre-conceived conceptions on others?
 
2012-12-05 12:41:25 PM

skullkrusher: GregInIndy: Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy.

well, you would be the bad guy by preventing your kids from seeing a live action rendition of a show you love merely because it is being performed in a church.
The show itself quotes the Bible. It talks about the birth of Jesus Christ as the important thing to the Christmas season. The fact that you're cool with your kids hearing that but not if it happens in a church is mind boggling.


cognitive dissonance at it's finest...
 
2012-12-05 12:41:35 PM

DaCaptain19: The atheist f*cks are more annoying than the pastor of Westboro Baptist!

what a bunch of sand-in-the-vagina pussy f*cks.

I'm not Catholic but I don't shiat my pants every time I see the Pope on the news.

Atheists SHOULD have the most civic-minded, volunteering, charity-based values. After all, no higher power - all we got is each other.

Instead, they poop their panties over a cartoon that is over 47 years old. Instead, they're bigger dicks to their own (you know...people?), on a daily basis, than ANY other faith-based belief system (because oh yeah, atheism is faith-based).

Jeebus, are you atheist f*ckers too lazy to use the remote? Because there are a LOT of TV programs that are on at any one point in time. Or try something more mentally stimulating like...reading, or have a hobby other than biatching about the irrelevant and watching TV shows you hate... 

Just a little suggestion for those whose stick up their arse has a stick up its arse.


You know how I know you DNRTFA?
 
2012-12-05 12:41:43 PM

that bosnian sniper: What lesson is being taught our kids when they experience firsthand proselytism in direct violation of the First Amendment? The highest law of the land itself can be ignored if you simply don't like it? That privileged classes are free to violate the law without accountability? That majorities are entitled to higher-order "rights" than minorities? That individuals ought not speak out when the law is being violated, by a privileged class, majority, or individual? That the only laws that matter are the ones that dictate and punish criminality?

 
2012-12-05 12:42:12 PM

justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.

Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.


You didn't answer my request. I want you to prove to me, with my own words used in this thread, where I said I would not be okay with this being held in a mosque or some other religious structure. You said that I would not be okay with that, and I want you to prove it. People opposing a mosque near Ground Zero has nothing to do with this thread, the subject of this thread, or anything that I said since you're personally challenging me.

Do it or shut the fark up.
 
2012-12-05 12:43:27 PM

Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.

Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.

You didn't answer my request. I want you to prove to me, with my own words used in this thread, where I said I would not be okay with this being held in a mosque or some other religious structure. You said that I would not be okay with that, and I want you to prove it. People opposing a mosque near Ground Zero has nothing to do with this thread, the subject of this thread, or anything that I said since you're personally challenging me.

Do it or shut the fark up.


You're asking people to prove the unprovable. Because, quite frankly, this is the internet. You can do one thing, and say another. I highly doubt that, even if you would be offended, you'd admit to it anyway.
 
2012-12-05 12:43:38 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.

my...you're quite the asshole, aren't ya? Moan all you want, my point was I'm pretty damn sure the same people would throw the same fit over the same farking thing, dickhead.

I'm not an asshole, I'm just somebody who actually read TFA and is commenting on such. If you don't have a counter to my points, that's fine, but going straight to namecalling only tells me how butthurt you are that I touched upon the little details that you chose to leave out completely.


But you sound like an asshole...
 
2012-12-05 12:44:05 PM
They play the fark out of it on TV and it is available for cheap on DVD. If you want to see it - WATCH IT AT HOME!
 
2012-12-05 12:44:08 PM
How to put a condom on a cucumber? CHECK
See Charlie Brown Xmas play? NOT
 
2012-12-05 12:44:34 PM

Epicedion: Recap for those not paying attention

Apparently the rights to put on a live performance of this particular play don't exist (as the play, in any official way, does not exist), per the Peanuts website, under "Special Requests." That means the church (or anyone) putting on the performance would be a huge copyright violation, and fines for that sort of thing are pretty severe.

I'm rather interested in what's going to happen now that this little church show has gotten some national attention.


Given how sue happy the comic strip rights holders typically are, they probably have a letter in the mail to this church.
 
2012-12-05 12:45:53 PM
F

Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.

Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?

In the South, people take religion very seriously. You'd be surprised the number of times I've heard of it happening. Not all parents would be willing to swallow their pride. That said, my family knew this girl's family really well, so they didn't actually have a problem with it. Now, at my H. S. graduation, our valedictorian didn't give her speech because it was held in a Catholic church. The salutatorian read the speech after reading their own. Her parents wanted to know why graduation couldn't be held in the school gym, and when the principal told her it wasn't big enough to fit all the graduates, their guests, and the school's administration, they weren't satisfied with that answer and didn't let her walk. She still got her diploma, but she missed the dean of students falling on their ass during the processional. ...


Honestly, I think you are just making this all up. First, you said you would know how her parents felt because your parents sat behind hers at the ceremony. Now you say that your family "knew her family really well". Why wouldn't you open with that? Because you are a straight up LIAR.
 
2012-12-05 12:45:57 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: manimal2878: I'm an athiest, but I would have no problem with my kid going on a field trip to observe the customs or holiday traditions of a religious group, if it was presented as an educational opportunity and not a chance to preach at them.

So at what point is Merry Christmas Charlie Brown educational in any way?


I was responding to a post that claimed there was no reason ever to have a field trip to a place of religion, charlie brown is irrelevant.
 
2012-12-05 12:46:09 PM

Joe Blowme: So when will they repeal it as a national holiday?


It already is for just about everyone in retail. National holidays in the US are a freaking joke. There is no law requiring that they be observed by employers.
 
2012-12-05 12:46:14 PM
For the rest of this month I'll be able to see (not hear), on the LEDs embedded in the walls of the tunnel leading from Engineering to the main lobby...

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (Bumbles BOUNCE)
Santa Claus is Coming to Town (Burgermeister Meisterburger FTW)
Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (good grief)

\think of the roof display in the movie Deck the Halls
\\same lights
 
2012-12-05 12:46:38 PM

BronyMedic: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.

Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.

You didn't answer my request. I want you to prove to me, with my own words used in this thread, where I said I would not be okay with this being held in a mosque or some other religious structure. You said that I would not be okay with that, and I want you to prove it. People opposing a mosque near Ground Zero has nothing to do with this thread, the subject of this thread, or anything that I said since you're personally challenging me.

Do it or shut the fark up.

You're asking people to prove the unprovable. Because, quite frankly, this is the internet. You can do one thing, and say another. I highly doubt that, even if you ...


I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.
 
2012-12-05 12:49:58 PM

Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.


Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.
 
2012-12-05 12:50:48 PM

citoriman: FCoco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: citoriman: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: The My Little Pony Killer: Why can't the kids just watch the Charlie Brown movie at their school? Why does it HAVE to be at a church?

Because it's a play, not the movie? Because the church has a large auditorium with seating, and perhaps the school's auditorium is in use by students from another grade?
A lot of you seem to feel like churches are evil scary places, which is really odd, if you really don't believe in any of these higher powers. They're just buildings and they often have better facilities for public shows (since they have them at least every week) than most other secular buildings.

My sister went to a public high school. Her graduation ceremony was held at a local church for precisely that reason. It was larger than the school's gymnasium and could hold more bodies, since over 1000 students were graduating and that many guests would be crammed out on the street. The class valedictorian was Jewish, and her parents sat in front of my parents, and I didn't hear them complaining that their Jewish daughter was giving a speech about not slacking off in college while standing in a Baptist church.

Well, if you didn't hear her parents complain while sitting next to them during the ceremony, then clearly they were stoked. Case closed folks, nothing to see here.

I would think, and that's because this is a common sense thing here, I would think that if they had a problem with the graduation ceremony being held in a church different from their own religious beliefs, they wouldn't have let her go. I mean, I'm just guessing out loud here. If you're the kind of person to get offended by something like that, you're also the kind of person who would tell your child they're not going.

Because parents would NEVER swallow their pride to allow their daughter to serve as valedictorian. Do I really need to spell this out for you?

In the South, people take religion very seriously. You'd be ...


think about it logically - why would she need to lie to counter your point that the 1st amendment precludes a public school from using a facility for an event if that facility is a place of worship?
 
2012-12-05 12:51:28 PM

BronyMedic: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: justtray: Coco LaFemme: IAmRight: justtray: I even listed an example in my reply to make it more clear for you, yet you willfully ignore it and still can't comprehend. Typical bad troll.

I like that you're so supportive of other religions that you claim the Muslim alternative to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" would be that Charlie Brown becomes a terrorist.

Why do you think I didn't dignify that crap with a response?

Because you couldn't without being a hypocrite. Terrorist is subjective, especially in today's day and age. The idea was that you learn how Charlie brown becomes infatuated with the teachings of Allah, regardless of the purpose. Interchange terrorist with any other word you want, the meaning is still the same, and it still shows the blatant hypocrisy, and like I said, dogma, of those supporting this field trip, regardless of if it's voluntary or not.

You would not be okay with this being done in a Mosque, nor if being about any other religion other than Christianity, so you are a hypocrite if you support it. Period.

Prove that.

Easy. Using the same source material as the one for this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/22/supporters-opponents-ground-zero - mosque-hold-dueling-rallies/

Now admit you were wrong or go away, I don't care which you choose, but at least have some shame.

You didn't answer my request. I want you to prove to me, with my own words used in this thread, where I said I would not be okay with this being held in a mosque or some other religious structure. You said that I would not be okay with that, and I want you to prove it. People opposing a mosque near Ground Zero has nothing to do with this thread, the subject of this thread, or anything that I said since you're personally challenging me.

Do it or shut the fark up.

You're asking people to prove the unprovable. Because, quite frankly, this is the internet. You can do one thing, and say another. I highly doubt that, even if you wo ...


Yeah, I'd just like to add that I'm using the royal "you" in those instances. He's just butthurt that his viewpoint is wrong, and proven wrong.

Ignore bin +1 moron.

Anyway, thanks for the assist.
 
2012-12-05 12:51:38 PM

DaSwankOne: sethen320: I believe the saying is "turn the other cheek".

I would not expect you to understand this because you are a hater, but actually the "turn the other cheek" phrase has been misinterpreted. The real meaning is more in line with the concept of not seeking vengeance rather than allowing oneself to be abused.


Hater? Wtf are you talking about?
 
2012-12-05 12:51:45 PM

skullkrusher: GregInIndy: Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy.

well, you would be the bad guy by preventing your kids from seeing a live action rendition of a show you love merely because it is being performed in a church.
The show itself quotes the Bible. It talks about the birth of Jesus Christ as the important thing to the Christmas season. The fact that you're cool with your kids hearing that but not if it happens in a church is mind boggling.


It only boggles if you don't think context, authority, location, or who's doing the presenting or speaking matters at all.

Moreover, I'd disagree with you on the content. It quotes a bible passage about Christ's birth, which is fine, but there's an entire message about the problems of commercialism and crassness vs. caring and goodwill for all that I like a lot, and that completely bypasses Linus's speech near the end.

What I don't want is for a church to use the school's authority over the kids to put forth any of their beliefs as objective truth. If it were a play at a playhouse of the same material it would be in a completely different context. Context and intent matter whether you like it or not.
 
2012-12-05 12:51:48 PM
I never said that I thought god exists. By missing my point, your helping to prove it. I said something that really only slightly challenged your beliefs, then you go off on me about how stupid I am and all this nonsense which is exactly what I would expect from a hardcore christian or Muslim or any other religious person.

I think the the real problem with religion is the intolerance of others and the hatred expressed against them, and most of the so-called atheist I've interacted with display these same negative traits. So from my viewpoint atheism is just another flavor of belief.

While I do think that atheism does a much better job presenting rational for their belief that there is no god, it's still making, although much smaller, a leap of faith.

I'm a very practical person. I'm not going to waste my day off hearing about stories from 2000 years ago, but if saying one sentence out loud grants me passage into eternal paradise of whatever, then why not? I understand statistics and know that i'm very unlikely to hit the jackpot in the lottery, but i'll buy a ticket every now and then. Brings me a moment of hope and joy without much effort. Doesn't mean i'm going to blow my whole check every week on scratch offs.
 
2012-12-05 12:51:49 PM

Coco LaFemme: and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread


You actually moved the goalposts there, not that it matters much. I suggest both of you drop the back-and-forth on the who-said-what. The point that stands is that most people in the US are very comfortable with Christianity and let them get away with stuff that seems jarring or offensive when done by another, less-familiar group.
 
2012-12-05 12:52:06 PM

kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.


she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on
 
2012-12-05 12:52:39 PM

DaSwankOne: Tenatra: Why didn't you say someone should give me an ass beating?

Because it is synonymous you farking retard.


An ass beating is not synonymous with one punch to the face. It is synonymous with losing horribly in competition with another person or team. It is synonymous with getting pounded into the ground. I'll have you know that you are arguing with a retard though, I won't pass judgement on your decisions to keep arguing with me, if you so choose to continue.
 
2012-12-05 12:55:46 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: The My Little Pony Killer: Madbassist1: My how things have changed. When I was in elementary school, that was our school play. It was pretty good, too.

That I'm assuming was performed at your school, and not say, a church, correct?

Congratulations, you've come THISCLOSE to actually touching upon the issue people might possibly have with the scenario from TFA.

my...you're quite the asshole, aren't ya? Moan all you want, my point was I'm pretty damn sure the same people would throw the same fit over the same farking thing, dickhead.

I'm not an asshole, I'm just somebody who actually read TFA and is commenting on such. If you don't have a counter to my points, that's fine, but going straight to namecalling only tells me how butthurt you are that I touched upon the little details that you chose to leave out completely.


Why would I have a counter to your 'points' I don't know what they are. I didnt read your farking post, all I did was comment that my school put on this show as a play when I was in elementary school, and because you just couldnt wait to snark, I had to clarify my unspoken point because you are too stupid to grasp it. Point being, that militant atheists would probably have a cow if my school had done the same thing today.

Then you have the balls to come back with "when you assume..."? You're out of your farking mind, dumbass. It was a one sentance opinion and you just couldnt wait to snark on it...because...wait for it...someone posted who didnt read the farking article?

[welcome to fark.jpg]

And yes...you certainly are acting like an asshole.
 
2012-12-05 12:55:52 PM

Rincewind53: Via Infinito: [draftsauronpac.files.wordpress.com image 850x548]

/oblig

I really hate that, because the first part gets all of those old gods wrong, based off that stupid "Christianity is just a copy of old religions" image that's been circling the internet for a while.

Hercules was not a god.
There is no evidence that Horus was born anywhere near December 25th
Sol Invictus and Mithra are the same damn thing
Zeus wasn't born on December 25th
Mithra wasn't born on December 25th.

Literally every part of that list of gods "born" during Saturnalia is wrong.


and let's not forget that christian's didn't hijack this holiday. people that were FORCED into christianity merged the christian bleliefs into their own so they could still pay homage to their gods while tricking the priests that they were believers.
 
2012-12-05 12:56:30 PM
I'm as atheist as they come, but I'm not "outraged" by people celebrating Christmas ... a little annoyed by how unavoidable it all is, but not outraged.

I just wish I could say, "I don't really celebrate Christmas," without the Scrooge cracks and the assumption I had a sh*tty childhood or something. One of the most obnoxious things anyone can say is, "You don't like _____!? What's wrong with you?"

Nothing, I'm fine. Go have a good time. Whatever makes you happy. Just please stop spraying me with your Christmas cheer.

That said, I do really love Vince Guaraldi's music for that special.
 
2012-12-05 12:56:33 PM

skullkrusher: kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.

she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on


Which brings this to mind...

rationalwiki.org
 
2012-12-05 12:56:35 PM

GregInIndy: It only boggles if you don't think context, authority, location, or who's doing the presenting or speaking matters at all.


would hearing a church choir sing holiday classics be an issue?

GregInIndy: Moreover, I'd disagree with you on the content. It quotes a bible passage about Christ's birth, which is fine, but there's an entire message about the problems of commercialism and crassness vs. caring and goodwill for all that I like a lot, and that completely bypasses Linus's speech near the end.


a secular aspect does not eliminate the point. The point is that the special itself has a CLEARLY Christian meaning which it drives home with specifically mentioning the birth of Jesus, and not commercialism, as the point of Christmas.
 
2012-12-05 12:56:58 PM
Conservative 'outrage' on faux news about the 'war on christmas' and by extension, the 'war on christians'... trying too hard to be outraged about something, anything...

successful troll...
also, I feel dirty having clicked on that link for some fox nutjob who claims to have sarah palin as a fan of his work.
 
2012-12-05 12:57:44 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: gerrymander: Of all the douchebag atheists in the world, you're douchebag atheistiest.

i think you meant "douchebaggiest Athiest"


I meant it the way I wrote it (almost -- it should have the "the douchebag atheistiest"). Linus didn't call his companion was "the Charliest Brown".
 
2012-12-05 12:58:35 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: skullkrusher: kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.

she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on

Which brings this to mind...

[rationalwiki.org image 500x372]


I'm surprised there's people that still don't have skullkrusher on ignore.
 
2012-12-05 12:59:05 PM

GregInIndy: The school could do anything; take the kids to see any sort of Christmas or holiday show. I'd even be fine with the same Charlie Brown Christmas play. Just not one at a church or run by a church.


I agree with this statement. Christianity didn't last more then 2000 years by not acting upon every opportunity to indoctrinate young people that it came across.
 
2012-12-05 12:59:26 PM

Lernaeus: I just wish I could say, "I don't really celebrate Christmas," without the Scrooge cracks and the assumption I had a sh*tty childhood or something. One of the most obnoxious things anyone can say is, "You don't like _____!? What's wrong with you?"


Point out to them that Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate any holiday, birthday, etc either.
 
2012-12-05 12:59:54 PM

justtray: HindiDiscoMonster: skullkrusher: kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.

she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on

Which brings this to mind...

[rationalwiki.org image 500x372]

I'm surprised there's people that still don't have skullkrusher on ignore.


considering your performance in every thread, I am not surprised that you're surprised by unsurprising things. You are that simple.
 
2012-12-05 01:00:08 PM

Lernaeus: I'm as atheist as they come, but I'm not "outraged" by people celebrating Christmas ... a little annoyed by how unavoidable it all is, but not outraged.

I just wish I could say, "I don't really celebrate Christmas," without the Scrooge cracks and the assumption I had a sh*tty childhood or something. One of the most obnoxious things anyone can say is, "You don't like _____!? What's wrong with you?"

Nothing, I'm fine. Go have a good time. Whatever makes you happy. Just please stop spraying me with your Christmas cheer.

That said, I do really love Vince Guaraldi's music for that special.


/Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?
//just kidding :P
 
2012-12-05 01:00:37 PM
I'm thinking 90%+ of Christians would completely lose their f-in' minds if their kid's school put together a "voluntary" field trip to a mosque to see a really fun play about Ramadan and how just awesome Muhammad & Allah is, showed them around the mosque, maybe let them check out how they pray & stuff.
 
2012-12-05 01:00:49 PM
Atheism is a Religion
 
2012-12-05 01:01:42 PM

gerrymander: HindiDiscoMonster: gerrymander: Of all the douchebag atheists in the world, you're douchebag atheistiest.

i think you meant "douchebaggiest Athiest"

I meant it the way I wrote it (almost -- it should have the "the douchebag atheistiest"). Linus didn't call his companion was "the Charliest Brown".


Although it occurs to me well after the fact that I could have started with "atheist douches" and run the quote from there to get your more sensible version.
 
2012-12-05 01:03:05 PM

Mugato: At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.


I would have 0 problem with that. I think people should learn about other religions than their own. I enjoy talking to people of other religions to see what it's all about, even if I have no intention of following it. Hell, some Jenova's witnesses came to my house and I spent an hour talking with them, and asking all sorts of questions. In fact, I'm the only person I know that's made a Witness look at their watch and say "look man, I gotta go".

My ex-wife is Buddhist. When I was getting married people where asking if she was gonna convert to Christianity. I said no. Then they asked if I was gonna convert to Buddhism. I said no. Well then how will you deal with two religions in the same house? Easy, it's not a big deal. What about if you have kids? Then they can choose what to believe based on what makes the most sense to them.

I think a wide variety of religions should be tought in school. Not that one is better or more correct than others, just what they are all about. be it Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Wiccan or whatever As long as it isn't one of those crazy-ass 'religions' like Scientology or Mormonism.
 
2012-12-05 01:04:49 PM
Atheist getting free rent in the minds of Fox News viewers.

Remember, we're the ones making you doubt your faith. That free rent will make more atheists. I don't have to argue with a single christian at this rate.
 
2012-12-05 01:06:01 PM

BronyMedic: This text is now purple: Ask the Tibetans how much they enjoy actual militant atheism.

No thank you. I'd rather laugh at you for thinking State-as-Religion is the same as Atheism/Secular Humanism.

/we need a Godwin's law equivalent for people who say stupid things like this.


You're just speaking from the privilege of your rape culture.
 
2012-12-05 01:06:16 PM
RE: Arkansas

Local Christian churches here don't usually expect any voices in opposition to whatever they want, especially ones who have a lawyer.

Difficulty: atheists can't hold elected state public offices
 
2012-12-05 01:08:32 PM

ghare: This text is now purple: BronyMedic: dopekitty74: Gah! So farking tired of militant atheists giving us regular non-interfering in other people's fun atheists a bad name.

[madmikesamerica.com image 475x336]

Just look at that Atheist drinking his coffee. It's so EVIL.

Ask the Tibetans how much they enjoy actual militant atheism.

I'm pretty sure they're suffering from totalitarianism, not militant atheist. Unless you seriously believe that China is still Communist.


China has basically fallen back on Totalitarian Pragmatism. I just get tired of trotting out Stalinism.
 
2012-12-05 01:08:54 PM

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


Are you implying the Bible is cartoonish?

Because I agree. All superhero origin stories have the same elements.
 
2012-12-05 01:09:11 PM

GregInIndy: skullkrusher: GregInIndy: Sure, it's voluntary. Voluntary in the sense that if you don't sign the permission slip your kid gets separated from her classmates to sit & do dull bookwork all day in detention-like conditions while their friends go on the bus & see a fun show and you as a parent are the bad guy.

well, you would be the bad guy by preventing your kids from seeing a live action rendition of a show you love merely because it is being performed in a church.
The show itself quotes the Bible. It talks about the birth of Jesus Christ as the important thing to the Christmas season. The fact that you're cool with your kids hearing that but not if it happens in a church is mind boggling.

It only boggles if you don't think context, authority, location, or who's doing the presenting or speaking matters at all.

Moreover, I'd disagree with you on the content. It quotes a bible passage about Christ's birth, which is fine, but there's an entire message about the problems of commercialism and crassness vs. caring and goodwill for all that I like a lot, and that completely bypasses Linus's speech near the end.

What I don't want is for a church to use the school's authority over the kids to put forth any of their beliefs as objective truth. If it were a play at a playhouse of the same material it would be in a completely different context. Context and intent matter whether you like it or not.


I'm calling foul on that one. Do you think the school was using its authority over the children to "put forth their beliefs?"

It was most likely supposed to be a fun outing in relation to the holiday season coming up, a season in which everyone, what ever their beliefs, get out of school. Not just because of Christmas either, its usually the end of the semester and New Years too.

In small towns we don't always have the options of non-secular venues for this kind of thing. I know where I am there are only two auditoriums big enough, one at the high school and one at the Methodist church. They are usually pretty good about letting other people use it for programs and things, especially since the school district won't let the high school be used for anything non-school related.

We all don't have the same options. Some of us live in bum-fark Kansas, and still keep church and school separate, because we have a little common sense.

I know. I used Kansas and common sense in the same sentence.
 
2012-12-05 01:09:46 PM
2%. That's what the focus here is about: 2%.

It's what the focus everywhere, especially government, is all about. That's the population of people in this country, let's call them "ass-clowns", who are offended by__________, disrupted by_________, downtrodden by__________, and harmed by__________. You fill in the blanks. Our society caters to this ever-changing 2%. One day Topic A bothers this 2%, the next day Topic B bothers that 2%.

Stop being part of the f'n 2%!
 
2012-12-05 01:10:17 PM

gerrymander: HindiDiscoMonster: gerrymander: Of all the douchebag atheists in the world, you're douchebag atheistiest.

i think you meant "douchebaggiest Athiest"

I meant it the way I wrote it (almost -- it should have the "the douchebag atheistiest"). Linus didn't call his companion was "the Charliest Brown".


douchebag is a pronoun in this context whereas Atheist is a noun... so saying someone is Atheistiest is kind of like saying Charlieiest Brown... now if you said douchebaggiest Charlie Brown then that would mean he is the most douchbaggiest Charlie Brown... the other way doesn't make sense.... look at it again:

douchebag Charlieiest Brown

or

douchebaggiest Charlie Brown


douchebag (pronoun - a descriptive noun)
Charlie (proper noun - a name)

so... what makes more sense... the first or second sentence?

1> Charlie Brown was the douchebag Charliest Brown of all douchebag Charlie Browns
2> Charlie Brown was the douchbaggiest Charlie Brown of all Charlie Browns
 
2012-12-05 01:10:59 PM

Joe Blowme: How to put a condom on a cucumber? CHECK
See Charlie Brown Xmas play? NOT


That actually makes a lot of sense. The condom on a cucumber is useful information whereas the Charlie brown christmas play and especially the christian messages contained in it isn't useful at all.
 
2012-12-05 01:11:06 PM

justtray: HindiDiscoMonster: skullkrusher: kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.

she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on

Which brings this to mind...

[rationalwiki.org image 500x372]

I'm surprised there's people that still don't have skullkrusher on ignore.


sometimes i am a masochist... :)
 
2012-12-05 01:11:45 PM

GregInIndy: I'm thinking 90%+ of Christians would completely lose their f-in' minds if their kid's school put together a "voluntary" field trip to a mosque to see a really fun play about Ramadan and how just awesome Muhammad & Allah is, showed them around the mosque, maybe let them check out how they pray & stuff.


Thats like taking them to a kkk rally, they openly preach death to lots of different people. You might have had a point if you stopped at the fun play about a murdering rapist pedo...er i mean Mohamed....
 
2012-12-05 01:11:53 PM

mizchief: I'm a very practical person. I'm not going to waste my day off hearing about stories from 2000 years ago, but if saying one sentence out loud grants me passage into eternal paradise of whatever, then why not? I understand statistics and know that i'm very unlikely to hit the jackpot in the lottery, but i'll buy a ticket every now and then. Brings me a moment of hope and joy without much effort. Doesn't mean i'm going to blow my whole check every week on scratch offs.


So instead you are going to blow your whole life on one scratch off?
 
2012-12-05 01:12:02 PM

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Because people are stupid?
 
2012-12-05 01:12:09 PM

skullkrusher: justtray: HindiDiscoMonster: skullkrusher: kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.

she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on

Which brings this to mind...

[rationalwiki.org image 500x372]

I'm surprised there's people that still don't have skullkrusher on ignore.

considering your performance in every thread, I am not surprised that you're surprised by unsurprising things. You are that simple.


that had a kind of symmetry to it... it was kind of beautiful.
 
2012-12-05 01:13:10 PM

Delectatio Morosa: 2%. That's what the focus here is about: 2%.

It's what the focus everywhere, especially government, is all about. That's the population of people in this country, let's call them "ass-clowns", who are offended by__________, disrupted by_________, downtrodden by__________, and harmed by__________. You fill in the blanks. Our society caters to this ever-changing 2%. One day Topic A bothers this 2%, the next day Topic B bothers that 2%.

Stop being part of the f'n 2%!


I hear ya. Better to just conform and do what everyone else says to do because I get annoyed when those pesky people with a minority viewpoint do something.
 
2012-12-05 01:14:21 PM
What a miserable existence it must be, to be an atheist . . . so sure and smugly confident in your beliefs, that you still cry and complain you are being excluded or ostracized by something like 'A Charlie Brown Christmas.' Where is the moaning about not having to work on December 25?
 
2012-12-05 01:14:29 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: skullkrusher: justtray: HindiDiscoMonster: skullkrusher: kronicfeld: Coco LaFemme: I think you're missing the point. He/She specifically told me that I would not be okay with this play being put on in a mosque or some other religious structure, and I asked them to point out where I said in this thread that the only reason I didn't think this was a big deal was because it as a Christian church. I'm not asking them to prove how life began, I'm asking them to tell me where I said something they clearly think I said.

Throwing a hissy fit is a sure way to win an argument on an internet message board.

she's already won - now she's just fighting off the desperate attempts to save face made by those she just laid the smackdown on

Which brings this to mind...

[rationalwiki.org image 500x372]

I'm surprised there's people that still don't have skullkrusher on ignore.

considering your performance in every thread, I am not surprised that you're surprised by unsurprising things. You are that simple.

that had a kind of symmetry to it... it was kind of beautiful.


thanks for quoting it so the simple minded coward could enjoy it as well
 
2012-12-05 01:15:02 PM

Rindred: RE: Arkansas

Local Christian churches here don't usually expect any voices in opposition to whatever they want, especially ones who have a lawyer.

Difficulty: atheists can't hold elected state public offices


....yet. That one is dying to get challenged. But I guess it would take one actually getting elected first.

But would I know about Arkansas?
 
2012-12-05 01:15:21 PM