Antimatter: What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.

The 3DO was an abortion.

The Neo-Geo Arcade Entertainment System (Multi-Video System is the arcade cabinet) was genuinely successful. The hardware was a direct clone, even down to the serial numbers. It wasn't a "console" by even the stretchiest of words. It was an arcade machine that you could jack into RCA outlets.

It also invented the Memory Card. Every MVS up to 1994 has two slots where you can slide your AES save games into the system itself, plug in a quarter and play where you left off. Nascent save-state speedrunning. Say that three times fast...

The main selling factor to it was that it didn't run cartridges, per se, it ran FULL ARCADE BOARDS. Justification for the $109.99 (Ninja Combat, Magician Lord, Baseball Stars: Professional, 'Nam 1975) to a WHOPPING $799.95 (Fatal Fury 1, Thunder Force, Last Resort) price tags on the games was because it used onboard RAM to power them, not system-side. Considering it launched in 1989 (only as a mail-order system from SNK-USA) and eventually went wide in 1991, it may seem that it was meant and built for an exclusive group.

It was.

The main point SNK used in selling the AES was to get arcade operators to show off future games to interested customers AHEAD of when they'd be available, thereby driving up revenue. Even though the games were the exact same, it was SNK's choice to sell a set number of "shells" before production of the arcade boards to see what opinion would be of them... it really didn't matter, though, 95% of all Japanese games were ported to America.

Another thing that the AES had going for it was that the RAREST games (something like the "Top 25") available in North America are all AES/MVS titles. Last Blade 2 will set you back anywhere from $1,500 bare board to $10,000 for a Mint-In-Box. Collectors will sell their first-born children for a copy.

Although it isn't said much, there are a good number of titles designed exclusively for the system, and not meant as arcade titles; Samurai Shodown RPG can be had for a relatively cheap $300 in box, Garou: Mark of The Wolves (Fatal Fury 4) was ported from the console to the arcade - the only game in SNK's catalog that holds that distinction. Rumors abound of there being a Magician Lord 2 game finished and floating among the ether that was designed as AES-exclusive in 1998.

All told, it ran from 1989 to 2005, and the final game released for it is SNK Vs. Capcom: SVC CHAOS which sold over 5,000 units for a home system that hadn't been made in almost a decade.

It did, however, cost a steep $599.99. Still a bargain next to the memory-maxed-out Metal Slug 4 - it retailed for a jaw-dropping $1,999.99 in 2000.

These things taken into consideration, however, the AES holds a very vaunted position:

The Longest-Living Console In History - 16 Years.

DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark

I don't hate their products.

I hate their unethical business practices, their inexorably greedy and paranoiac ex-CEO, their modular upgrade concepts designed for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer, their Russian Communist DRM and their blatant and repetitive patent trolling.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this regard...

List is useless without the Neo Geo... $250 per game - oh yeah!

WhippingBoy: I have two Apple TV's. I think the price was fair, and I get much enjoyment out of them.

Tell me what a loser I am.

I think the fact that you're getting all defensive about the fact that some people don't share your tastes in consumer products is the true proof of what a loser you are. That's the thin line between an Apple user and an Apple fanboy.

MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?

Of course you can compare a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. And if cost is your highest priority, the Toyota wins. What a foolish thing to say.

umad:
It takes me a half hour to build a computer. Another half hour to install the OS. If that saves you $1500 or hell, let's be conservative and make it $1000 then you just made $1000 an hour. I doubt you make that much at your job. I "waste" my time because I'm not an idiot.

It takes you half an hour to go buy all the bits and pieces, unpack them, and bolt them together?

You're either really fast, or completely full of shiat.

Carth: Xai: The very first one on the list is Microsoft's $500 32Gb tablet with a $120 keyboard/cover. Despite the fact that iPad 32Gb is $600 and it's another $150 for keyboard and cover.

Not at all biased.

The 32Gb Xoom is only $329. That doesn't mean it isn't overpriced for what you get.

The surface has a larger screen, built in stand, top quality build, connectivity and compatability, is thinner than the iPad and comes pre-installed with office applications. Given that it is cheaper than an equivalent iPad then I don't see why it isn't better value. In fact the only tangible downside Gizmodo can give (aside from the blatant lie of 5hrs less battery life - iPad is 10hrs, surface is 8) is that there are fewer apps, and considering that the tablet has been out for about 1 month I'd say it isn't doing bad.

It doesn't have the apple logo and will never outsell it, but why is it on top a list of overpriced things when the apple version costs more and does less.

How could they miss the Vertu phones on this list? Because spending $10,000+ for a 5-year-old Nokia phone encrusted in gold and jewels sounds like a real bargain.

If Windows 8 were a car, the steering wheel, pedals and gear shift would all be replaced by buttons, and they would be in the same place as the buttons for the heat, A/C, stereo and anything else they decided to cram in. Good luck figuring out how to drive, and not crash. Did I mention that the brakes are in a hidden location, and you have to do a complicated gesture to open a panel and get to them?

mcreadyblue: Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop.

I get that you like the built in display. But for many people, a desktop computer having a combined tower/screen isn't a big selling point considering the hefty additional price.

Since you like car analogies, let's go with this.

One car is your standard 4-door sedan.
The other is a 4-door sedan that can (at the press of a button) release the aroma of bacon into your car, at twice the price.

Now, the bacon smell is nice, and people are probably impressed that you got the new Baconmobile and want to ride in it. But then every day when you're driving to work, you're still pushing the same gas pedal and powering the same engine to drive your sedan. Except you paid twice as much for the bacon smell.

How does Windows 8 fit in car analogies?

IOS is a Ferrari and Windows 8 is a '78 Buick?

If you have a touch-screen and Windows 8 you're going to realize that Apple is about to get their shiat kicked in. Windows 8 without a touchscreen? Yeah, eh. Windows 8 with a touchscreen? Holy god, it's good.

The All-Powerful Atheismo: spawn73: The All-Powerful Atheismo: spawn73: You're factually incorrect. The Neo-geo wasn't intended for the mainstream at all. It was arcade systems intended for, well, arcades, hotels and the like.

They're talking about the home console, tard. There are two different versions.

I know what they were talking about mongol, and that version was released exactly because there was a demand. Arguing otherwise is moronic, since we're talking about something that has happened, and thus can be verified as fact.

Call me a mongol if you want but you're a farking tard for saying it was meant for arcades and hotels when it, being what they were quite specifically referring to, was a home console version.

"Initially, the home system was only available for rent to commercial establishments, such as hotel chains, bars and restaurants, and other venues. When customer response indicated that some gamers were willing to buy a $650 console, SNK expanded sales and marketing into the home console market."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo


When I made the argument that this was something that could be verified as fact, it didn't cross your mind that I might have done precisely that? Dude, you are a bit slow...

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.

Oh, and is Quallcomm involved in consumer electronics?

And are you still dumb?

Looking for an electronic gadget that Qualcomm sells. Considering they manufacture components, nope, no results found.

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.

And you think they don't do high margin deals. Isn't that precious?!

You should just stop, because you're getting dumber every post.

"15 Most Overpriced Gadgets of All Time"

Since software isn't a gadget, find a non-software, electronic gadget product Oracle sells at over 30% margin.

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/index.html

Saiga410: am willing to put out ther that an object is overpriced when its price point is over the WTP point.

And I personally have sold items at over 50% price point and the customer danced away happy. Not overpriced.

So as long as Warren Buffet or Donald Trump is willing to buy 1 item from you, it isn't overpriced?

Nothing is overpriced then! Yay!

Can anyone find a cell phone or electronic gadget that sold zero units?

Rent Party: And now you're back to comparing retail outlets with manufacturing. Keep moving that goalpost. I'm sure you'll find a home eventually.

So you think that Oracle manufactures cell phones. That says a lot.

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: You clearly don't know the difference between profit/contribution margin and gross/machine margin.

I'm not the one confusing "overpriced" and "profit margin". Didn't you just say this:

Bullseyed: Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Why did you choose 15%?

Return on working capital. Less than 15% and you can generally make more money investing elsewhere. Each company has a different cost of capital, but 15% is generally a good baseline according to pretty much every business textbook.

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

I have to get special permission for any deal at less than 43%, and my boss frowns upon those.

What Fortune100 company do you work for so we can check out your Form - 10k and Form 10q?

Privately held, sport. Software services standard margin is usually right around 43%, regardless of the size of the company. Businesses that race to the bottom with "We will do it for free!" don't last long.

And you're also confusing a company's total profit margin (net income vs costs) with the margin for a specific product, which is yet another demonstration of your complete ignorance.

But lets go by your metric, anyway, just for the lulz. Oracle pulled down 24% this year. So did Adobe Systems. Microsoft pulled 29%.

Do you need any other demonstrations of your complete ignorance?

Yeah. Amazon and Walmart are very out of business. HP and Dell have only existed for a year or two. The tiny mom and pop shop you work for is not statistically significant.

Link to Oracle's tablet business? Cell phone business? We're waiting.

Microsoft's margin will drop to 5% if they transition into hardware instead of selling only software.

Treygreen13: downstairs: Every industry is different. Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.

Indeed, and they operate on smaller product markups on many things. But according to the definition provided by Bullseyed a potato that cost 10 cents to produce would be "overpriced" at 12 cents.

For period ending September 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 22.86%
Amazon: -1.98%
HP: -22.88%
Dell: 3.46%

For period ending June 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 25.19%
Amazon: 0.05%
HP: -29.85%
Dell: 5.05%

For period ending March 2012, profit margin by company:
Apple: 29.66%
Amazon: 0.99%
HP: 5.19%
Dell: 4.40%

For period ending December 2011, profit margin by company:
Apple: 28.20%
Amazon: 1.01%
HP: 4.89%
Dell: 4.77%

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/HPQ/profit_margin
http://ycharts.com/companies/DELL/profit_margin

I'm sure they're just all lying on their financial statements and committing felonies, right? Everyone knows your boss doesn't stand less than 43%!!!!

Average for retail (grocers, etc): 1% margin
Average for electronics (other than Apple): 5% margin
Average for Apple: 25% margin

Apple charges roughly 50% margin on hardware and they lose money on their software.
- Report: iTunes costs $1.3 billon per year to run (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/13/report-itunes-costs-1-3billon-per-year -to-run/)

If you think Apple products aren't overpriced you are a serious farking moron and I'd only take economic advice from you if I hated money

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: For an entirely different economic term. Nice try though. What you just said is tantamount to "the grass is green therefore the sky is not blue".

You're moving the goalposts. Anything marked up more than 15% over cost isn't overpriced by definition. A business's profit margin takes into account everything, not just the price you sell the good for minus the cost. It's entirely possible to mark a product up 200% and lose money doing it.

If you marked it up 200% and lost money, then you didn't assess your operating costs properly. Operating costs are included in pricing, which is why bread and milk go up when the price of gas goes up. They have to ship the product on trucks, so the price is tied in to the cost of gas.

You clearly don't know the difference between profit/contribution margin and gross/machine margin.

downstairs: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

 
Every industry is different.  Gorcery stores operate at something like less than 1% margin.

Electronics are usually around 5%. The hardware is usually between -2% and 1% and the services/software prop up the hardware.

Rent Party: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

Most businesses that are operating at a 15% margin, won't be a business for very long.

I have to get special permission for any deal at less than 43%, and my boss frowns upon those.

What Fortune100 company do you work for so we can check out your Form - 10k and Form 10q?

Rent Party: Bullseyed: Rent Party: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.

You're confusing worth with willingness to pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay

"In economics, the willingness to pay (WTP) is the maximum amount a person would be willing to pay, sacrifice or exchange in order to receive a good"

That's your free MBA lesson of the day.

You're an idiot. Your Wiki education just gave you "what the market will bear."

But please do keep it up, as I find it amusing. Also, go ahead and break out your 15% margin business plan and let us know how that works for you.

For an entirely different economic term. Nice try though. What you just said is tantamount to "the grass is green therefore the sky is not blue".

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

You're aware that, by that metric, essentially everything you could find at a store is overpriced. Right?

http://ycharts.com/companies/BBY/profit_margin

The highest margin Best Buy has reached in the last decade is 6.2%.

http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/profit_margin

Amazon hit 13.67% a while back.


Good luck finding anyone besides Apple pulling in 50% margins on electronics.

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Looks like someone got an F in econ.

How's that theater degree working out for you?

Rent Party: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

An object is worth what the market will bear to acquire it. You seem to think that something should be priced according to the cost to produce it, rather than the price people will pay to get it.

That is why you will always be poor.

You're confusing worth with willingness to pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay

"In economics, the willingness to pay (WTP) is the maximum amount a person would be willing to pay, sacrifice or exchange in order to receive a good"

That's your free MBA lesson of the day.

Treygreen13: Bullseyed: Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Err, no.

Err, yes.

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

I guess you don't understand how supply and demand works, nor did you read my comment which specifically mentioned comparing prices.

Comparing prices has nothing to do with being overpriced. Overpriced is when the cost to create or value of the product is much less than the price it sells at. Anything with more than 15% margin is overpriced.

Gig103: Bullseyed: Amusing that none of the items on there mention margin at all, which is the key factor in determining if something is overpriced.

I would disagree and define overpriced as compared to competitive products in the same market. That's why I vote for the iPad Mini. An iPad4 is $499, but an iPad Mini is $329. Smaller screen, lower resolution screen, slower processor, but 65% the cost of the full size, and 1.65x the cost of the Nexus w/ Android.

As much as I want to say that you disagreeing with the definition of the word does not change the definition of the word... value is a abstract concept. Some people value at the cost of the components, while others value at the willingness to pay. If you ascribe to the first principle, anything with high margin is overpriced. If you ascribe to the second then anything that doesn't sell well is overpriced.

Treygreen13: MrEricSir: Unless the cost of a computer you built yourself includes a built-in 27 inch display, then there's no comparison to be made. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus. I mean, they're both cars, right? What's the difference?

So since the display is built in, you can never compare it to another computer?

Ok then.

Think of it this way: the iMac is internally not much different than a giant laptop. Now, do you build laptops yourself? I mean, they're "just computers," right?

MrEricSir: Bullseyed: MrEricSir: Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

Cost to make an iPhone5 = $325
Selling price of iPhone5 = $700


Derp.

Oops, looks like you forgot to make a point. Derp indeed.

I guess you believe the iPhone5 is 20 years old then.

umad: Teufelaffe: According to reviews, it does have less battery life than the iPad, and a worse display, and the Windows app store is anemic compared to the competition.

So...what was incorrect?

The part where it neglected to mention that the short battery life is due to having much better (i.e. more expensive) hardware inside than the iPad. We know you guys only care about how pretty your gadgets are. The rest of us also care about their performance (which includes much more than just battery life).

He also compared Surface + keyboard to plain old iPad without keyboard.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: StrangeQ: At its $499 base price, Microsoft's first tablet costs the same as the fourth-generation iPad, the well-established leader in the tablet market. The attractive Surface has a worse screen than the iPad, it lasts 5 hours less on a charge and, at launch time, had only a handful of decent apps for its nascent Windows RT operating system.

However, you may want the Surface because of its heavily-advertised Touch Cover keyboard, a must-have accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture. That's $619 for a new, unproven tablet which trails the $499 market leader in most ways.

I'm surprised the author was able to take Apple's dick out of their mouth long enough to write all of that. Of course they don't include any recent Apple products, isn't Gizmodo just a paid Apple shill at this point?

/and why the fark do we still link to gawker sites to begin with?

And what part of his quoted text do you find inaccurate?

The part where he compares a base model $499 Surface + $100 keyboard to a base model $499 iPad without a keyboard and then says "SEE OVER PRICED SURFACE!!!!" Because you know, that iPad comes with a keyboard, right? Oh it doesn't? You have to buy it!!! The outrage!!!!

It's almost like he was being disingenuous or something.

Every top-of-the-line video card ever made

At its $499 base price, Microsoft's first tablet costs the same as the fourth-generation iPad, the well-established leader in the tablet market. The attractive Surface has a worse screen than the iPad, it lasts 5 hours less on a charge and, at launch time, had only a handful of decent apps for its nascent Windows RT operating system.

However, you may want the Surface because of its heavily-advertised Touch Cover keyboard, a must-have accessory that will set you back an extra $119, even though it costs Microsoft only $16 to manufacture. That's $619 for a new, unproven tablet which trails the $499 market leader in most ways.

I'm surprised the author was able to take Apple's dick out of their mouth long enough to write all of that. Of course they don't include any recent Apple products, isn't Gizmodo just a paid Apple shill at this point?

/and why the fark do we still link to gawker sites to begin with?

Mad_Radhu:
[The Holy Jesus pricesheet]


And, you have to understand how much money even those $700 low-end 286/mono PCs were when you adjust for inflation. Okay... ~$1200, so in line with the lowest-end iMac today. But, there wasn't nearly as much 'far, far cheaper', like there is today.

This is why in 1991 my poor-but-geeky dad was still banging out tons of stuff on a TI-99, which TI killed off in 1984. Honestly, using it every day until 1994 or so. Because he picked up a complete TI-99 system for about $100 in 1985 (because it was a dead platform) and could never afford to get on the PC upgrade ladder.

Funny that people still think Apple's products are overpriced. Guess it's easier to use 20 year old stereotypes than to compare prices.

DubyaHater: You guys ever get tired of ragging on Apple around here? Or is the hate towards Apple products a Pavlovian response at this point?
/yeah yeah, Welcome to Fark

What can we say, everyone loves hates a winner company that hasn't marketed an original product in their entire existence, yet still manage to get lauded as innovators.

Apple is the Andrew Lloyd Webber of the computer and consumer electronics industries.

What, no Neo-geo or 3DO? Both were interesting systems killed by insane prices on the console and games. I'd say the ps3 ranks up there, at launch anyways, but those two are still king.

Did they forget about any kind of cable ever made?

Every mac ever has been overpriced, especially lately. Way back when, you could actually somewhat justify the price since they built their own hardware in house. Now, they're exactly the same thing as a Windows computer with a shiny aluminum case, their own proprietary OS, and a $500 markup.